As a young Marine in the late 80's early 90's I remember double mags taped together and lights attached to handguards. I also want to thank Larry for pointing out most people in the military (while they served) aren't into the firearms to the point we knew all of the designations and variants. Sometimes people think military personnel know everything about every weapon but in reality it's just a tool and most know enough to use it correctly, depending upon if they used it as a part of their job. Great video as always, thank you for your work. I'm sharing this old school info on my social media.
I can tell you that my dad was in the Corp. from 60-64, 50 years later he could recall the number of clicks to hit targets at various ranges like it was yesterday..
Never quite understood where the perception came from that every soldier has an armorers level understanding of the weapons they use. When the task of the soldier is to be proficient with the weapon and using it to effectively complete what ever their assigned task is.
This is exactly why I hate it when veterans on either side of the Constitution debate use their military service as leverage. Most civilians know and or care more about guns than they do.
Zeus agree that most mil only know their weapons, but don’t equate the 1 percent of gun guys to most civilians, 99 percent of civilians know even less than the non-gun guy military members
When I was stationed at Kunsan Air Base, I used to carry a M-16, no A1, no A2, just M-16 A nothing. It had the early sights, triangular handguards, 3 prong flash suppressor, no forward assist and chrome bolt. It belonged in a museum.
@@v1vGAMERTAGv1v My uncle was in in 1966, He said kicking or slamming the charging handle was the vietnam answer to "Forward Assist" (and often jar fires.) But he said the big problem were jams, because of the use of "bad powder" clogged the gas ports and made a tar like mess, and they finally got cleaning kits right before he came home.
@@mosriteminioncause7741 The works in practice grunt logic that gave us the Grease gun. "Tf yous need a charging handle for? Treat it like your wife, don't be shy, the bolt doesn't bite." I'm trying to think of scenario where I've had a malfunction that NEEDED a forward assist, nope. Doesn't exist
@@v1vGAMERTAGv1v i can only think of extremely cold weather and the metal shrunk to the point that it wont chamber and seat the round but they should never be in a situation like that
Yeah if you want the real info on a particular weapon you have to get it from the guys that carried them. Because they will tell us right up front that X, Y and Z are wrong with it D, E and F are OK, and A, B and C are what they got right, or how we made it right in the field. The one issue that Larry didn't have to deal with is the "this is how its issued, AND how you'll use it".
80s\90s tactical gunsmithing is really interesting to see how creative these high-level users used commercial tech and cludges to get what would be easy customizable today.
@@Yutter89 What's easily customizable today is a product of those high-level users retiring and joining the industry or talking to the manufacturing guys about their experiences and how/why they did things. From the perspective of someone who makes things, that mag setup and why he uses duct tape for it is super interesting. I've got a roll of Fiberflex 40D I need to get running through my machine and then I may try to design a modern 3D printable version of that setup using my Pmags.
@@Yutter89 i honestly feel the more "DIY" look and the transitional rail piece attachement on the A1 carry handle is way more aesthetically pleasing than the streamlined rail systems and flat top recievers on new ARs
@@Gameprojordan oh I love diy looks, but function wise I know the modern stuff is going to work better in the end. Still great to see and hell who cares if you wanna mess with one for fun? Make a cheapo PSA copy just for the wall.
All of the real world trial and error that went into the modifications, like the rubber band for the IR cap, inner tube for dive light, specially drilled receiver extension position for body armor, etc is just fascinating. Larry is the perfect guy to explain it all😎
Saw a video where some former SEAL guy always rubber banded a tourniquet to his rifle stock. Then you supposedly had Soviet troops wrapping their Tourniquets / medical supplies to the folding or "triangle" framed stocks of their guns too. I'm fairly sure Karl did a video where he ran the same idea on his "AK74" for InrangeTV. If its cheap, easy to get, and works, you might as well use it. Like using Silly String to check for traps or trip wires.
@@xmm-cf5eg I remember seeing that video but don't remember who it was. Something I've learned is that when it comes to soldiers, its all about ease of use and ease of replication/repair. A fancy tie off to put your tourniquet to your rifle might look cool, but a shitty rubber band that you can just rip off is way faster to use when you're in a gun fight and super easy to replace after you've used it.
those old magazines worked, I was a weapons instructor we had tons of them and they always worked I used to tell some of my more weapons challegned students the way the follower points is the way the round goes into the magazine, yes we still had people who could not load a magazine properly (but these were Air Force people who never handled weapons on a daily basis like I did)
Ian just lets Larry talk and only asks the occasional clarification - great interviewer. Larry is so authentic. He doesn’t need to act tacti-cool and distant, he just talks and you know he’s the real thing.
Outstanding video once again. Plus, the new book on WWII firearms is amazing. Great work Ian, I love how far the channel and your success have come over the years. You’ve earned every sub and cent. Here’s to continued success in the future!
@Fabian Brown Who still won't answer any questions about his involvement in the white supremacist Oath Keepers. He was very loud and proud of it a few years back but not so much now that their true face has been exposed to the public. Is he distancing himself from the group and their white supremacy, or is he just trying to keep a lid on his own white supremacy?
I have a 90s Bushmaster XM15 government use only marked with a fixed carry handle. I love it. It's my favorite rifle out of the 10 ARs I own. It may be 90s outdated tech but i love how robust it is.
@@rippersix293 i have the same carbine, Bushy xm 15, and was fortunate enough to take a very small class with Larry, in 2019, and i used that rifle. Runs like a swiss watch.
I love the pragmatism that comes through in these interviews, it's great to see a discussion like this on practical use more so than competition or 2gun.
"I remember seeing in the armourers room they had sawed off the carry handle and bolted on a piece of picitiny rail." That sentence makes me want to be a armourer so badly.
Love listening to guys like Larry. Everyone thinks SF troops are all Gucci kit but a lot of the stuff they do with their kit is basically bodging with tape and glue to get things to work the way they need. No matter how new it is they'll still adapt it.
back then, yeah they had to improvise. after their retirement, they joined or worked for a gun company and integrated these "improvised" handmade upgrades into the gun system through picatiny, m-lock, etc. so the newer guys have an easier access for those upgrades.
Yeah, that would be cool. It inspired me to build a poor copy, myself. I lucked out and seemed to have bought the last polymer receiver that GWACS sold. I wish they would start producing more receivers. It makes for a super light rifle.
I am still in the navy and I am issued a FN M4 upper receiver with a colt XM177 lower that I can tell has been rebuilt by Crane multiple times!!!!! In 2019!!!!!!
Jordan E hahahahaha I have not seen the electro pencil yet but I did have a Hydromatic M16 a while ago made by GM lol it was a M16A1 lower on a 727 upper.
When he said he's right handed but left eye dominant, that really made me realize the level in which special forces operate I just never could have imagined. You're trying to achieve a level of success where things like that are taken into account. It's also said so matter of factly that this is presented in such a cooler way, to me, then some YT video like "we sat down with a former Navy Seal and here are the top TEN things THEY DON'T TELL YOU!"
Everyone who shoots figures out which eye is dominant. Doesn't really matter with pistols, but you should definitely shoot with your dominant eye with rifles. Back when Larry was in it wad probably less common, but today, everyone does this
These days any military shooting instructor worth a damn will have the entire class figure out which is their dominant eye before even hitting the range, I can’t speak for how things were in the 90s and earlier but in the 7 years I’ve been in the good instructors have done it.
My friends laughed at me when I fixed and old keyboard with some loose keys by rolling up and jamming a piece of toilet paper cardboard beneath the key, It makes me feel good knowing this guy folded and jammed a piece of MRE cardboard between his two mags to get his jungle-style setup done.
I've got a Norwegian Army/Home Guard manual on patrolling from the 1950s, and there's illustrations of the same type of mag clamping in there, using a stick or pencil as the stand-off between the mags
I had no idea I bought a Delta approved Aimpoint for my Sako L579 back in mid 80's here in Finland. My son has that combo today. He threaded the barrel and goes out in the woods with his buddies as free men.
Always really impressed by Larry's attention to details. You can see the amount of attention he pays to potential hazards and the thought he puts into *everything*.
@@zoiders BS, I always found the need to hold low on anything short of 300 (assuming a battle sight zero of 300 meters), especially at 200-250. You might still hit him at that range holding center mass but it is going to hit higher than that and likely hit him in the neck or even head.
We were trained to just adjust point of aim. There's no time to adjust sights and then you may have to immediately engage another target at a different distance. Just set and forget. Adjust point of aim unless doing more sensitive work like reaching out, WAY out, beyond your 300 meter BSZ, then,,, maybe. All that said, I really have to disagree with Mr. Vickers about the A2 sigths being too complicated. I never found anyone struggling with understanding this sight. A simple knob/dial adjustment for each direction and 2 sizes of rear reticle (only one of which did I ever find useful [small]). Actually the larger one was handy for when in NBC gear but that was it.
@@WhoWouldWantThisName by too complicated he doesn't mean people struggled to understand it but that it was unnecessarily complex, as in they didn't actually need all that variability
Towards the end of the video you mentioned the Air Force M16 and some of the variants. When I was in Afghanistan in 2011-2012 I was issued an M16A2, but the first thing I noticed was that the lower was a completely different color and fairly worn. It was marked Colt AR-15 M16 and it had an "A2" electropenciled next to M16 and over by the selector switch it had "Safe", "Semi", and in the final position where it was blank "BURST" was electropenciled in. It was a partial fence lower and so I think it would have been the Colt 604, and when I did a serial number search the date of issue to the USAF would have been 1964/65 time frame.
Operator119 A few years ago I was able to see a couple full size Colts, with the 20”bbls, that were first issued to the U.S.A.F. These were rifles that came from the Government 1033 program where they gave rifles to various civilian Law Enforcement Agencies to use as “patrol Rifles”. The Colts were early enough that they were still marked “AR15”, but had the select fire markings/capability of an M16. They were in remarkably good shape for their age, so they obviously were not use outside of a AF base possibly. Good Day to You!
@@tierone4761 That definitely interesting. And yeah it depends I guess. I would say most AF rifles are kept in the armories and shot only when people do an initial qualification or predeployment. In some cases there are rifles already downrange that just get carried around for just-in-case purposes and the ones that get used often are generally carried by Security Forces, PJs, and JTACs
@@operator1192 correct weapons that would be issued if needed were kept in Armories, Combat Arms Training kept a bunch of rifles in their weapons safe that were used for training and qualification. We were taught "Battle Zero" where during qualification we kept track of our adjustments and when we got a rifle we just set that rifle to those settings. All M16's in the storage Armories were set to Mechanical Zero. Security Police and others issued weapons on a daily basis their weapons were zeroed for that operator. I'm a retired CATM instructor.
I left SO in '88 but, one of the neatest things about being around back then was the creativity, especially with the armorers. Ours built an A2 with a 22 inch barrel to test as a DM rifle, loved that little tack driver. Comm guys were always coming up with new ways to get more out of our equipment. Everything was new and shiny and kind of crappy but, definitely worth the work to have a base to view all the cool stuff the kids have now.
I can't tell you how special it is to hear LAV speak like this. To an Australian gun guy and for the others down here, Larry is a National Treasure for us. I hope he's respected even more vehemtly in the US. Awesome.
I love how Larry is big on brand loyalty... Like he says, he's used them for years and had zero problems so he gives them big ups... Cheaper isn't always better
Reminds me of the pictures and stories of my dad's equipment and modifications from his time in the Rangers around the early 80's. They'd put vinyl camo contact paper on the handguards and stocks of their M16A1's and use various modifications to their slings to make them easier to carry at the ready. Then there was also the mags. They'd run paracord through the floorplates to achieve what we'd now call a 'mag pull' and put duct tape around the bottom 1/3 of the mags to keep them from rattling in the pouches. He still has a full set of those mags (his spare set for inspections) and we built a replica rifle for him a few years back. Of course, being somebody that actually knew how to shoot, they also had him as the sniper for a time. Now at the time the job was simply called 'sniper', though modern types would prefer to call it designated marksman. Either way it was pre-Army sniper school, so they sent some people to learn from the Marines instead and come back to teach the rest. His rifle was one of the early M21s (scoped and accurized M14), based on what I can tell from his pictures. Early enough to still have a commercial Redfield ART scope that was painted over, rather than an actual contract one that was matte anodized. But the real amusing part was the improvised cheek piece. I kid you not, they duct taped a pack of 'sanitary napkins' to the stock to make a cheek piece. Apparently it worked very well, certainly better than the leather cheek piece he got for his 'functional repro' M21 (couldn't get the right scope, so we made do with a modern one that functions mostly the same as the ART I scope). And finally, inspired by his desire to make repros of his rifles, I (having not actually been in the military) made my own version of what I'd do to make my idea of a customized service rifle. I did go with the M16A2 as the base partly because I grew up around M1s and M14s and had gotten used to that level of adjustability to the sights (as had the Marines that pushed for that sight), but opted for a chrome bolt carrier, because I've always found that (well done) chrome plating cleans the easiest of all of the coatings I've had experience with. I also used the taller, skinnier C7-style of handguard, never liked the full-sized, full-round M16A2 type, then camo dipped the funiture to emulate that vinyl contact paper that he used to use. All in all, it's been the best of the AR-15s we've built together, haven't had another one go together as easily and it's accurate and reliable, if a little old-fashioned and 80's looking (and yes, I do have a slightly more modern one to grab in case civilization breaks down, but I'd still consider that A2 perfectly useable).
@@hacksskillsmods8916 Actually he was heavily involved. Think of it as a more grown up father and son project. We've been building stuff together since I was old enough to start fetching his tools for him, though it was mostly the house (still not quite finished, but that's kind of how houses are). It's a bit like the old Japanese battleship Fuso, endlessly modified and updated.
GUNSOLID The Siegeology You’re doing it wrong. Swap all the way over to lefty. Use the left hand on the grip, right hand for support, and you’ll start to hit shit. I’m left eye dominant, right handed, served from 04-09, and never had an issue when I swapped over to lefty for long guns. Of course all the range time and training helped. As a kid I didn’t know any better and would often ignore rifles. Shotguns natural point of aim and it was easy mode for me. Handguns I could cheat over to my left eye right handed. Still do. All you’re doing is swapping your trigger finger. Being right hand dominant keeping that firing hand on the trigger is easy, and all your reloads will be natural and fluid.
Mr. Larry Vickers, thank you so much-I thought it was just me with the steel double mag holder causing rounds vibrating out on the spare mag!! Mine especially was doing it with my Ruger SR556 in 6.8 SPC, only made in that caliber by them one year, and in gas piston just like I wanted. I like to think I was ahead of the curve, even got into internet fights, about the 6.8SPC AND gas piston being superior. Using quick lean targets, like a 4x4 against a medium sized oak tree, I had Silver State Armory 6.8SPC 115gr OTMs go through the 4x4 and into the softer center of the tree and explode. It did not take many rounds, to our surprise, to see the tree fall over!
It’s comforting to know that we have intelligent guys like this in our Armed Forces who are real experts on the tools they need to accomplish their missions.
SpecOps accounts for less than 70,000 out of the 1.2 million active US service personnel. That 70,000 only came in the last few years when SpecOps was increased from 33,000 men. And Delta Force is only a tiny fraction of SpecOps.
As a 10 year veteran Marine I find it so interesting that once upon a time carbines were considered weapons for noncombatants, support types with other primary roles, while the long guns were for the front lines. Then there was a change where carbines became the sought after standard for front line combatants, relegating left over long rifles for the support types and rear echelon. And now, which is the most interesting part, the military seems to be going back to giving the long n heavies back to the front lines lol.
Yep. As a commo guy in Iraq I got a "musket" (M16A2). The platoon guys who went outside the wire got M4s with ACOGs. I eventually convinced the armorer to let me trade my m16 for an m9 to carry around the FOB.
Ironically most Delta guys don't look like that. They look like regular everyday dudes, except they can kill you with minimal effort several dozen ways.
Yeah I like Larry... At first I kinda didn't, and I know a lot of people get this douche vibe from him. But I think that's just his personality tbh. Especially since he definitely is proud of what he did for his country,
"You need to have different tools in your toolbox" - I'm glad Larry said this and that he said it specifically to Ian. I have a solid appreciation for what 5.56 can do and a substantial amount of respect for Ian and Karl, but I'm still not convinced by their "5.56 is all you need" mantra. Being stuck with 5.56 in open terrain seems like a nightmare engagement. Having one general issue rifle in one caliber is something that a small nation with homogenous terrain and no foreign military missions could pull off and the US don't particularly fit any of those categories :D _EDIT: I would hate to misquote I&K and to be quite honest, most of the times they so vividly defended the 5.56 was when people asked them whether it should be directly _*_replaced_*_ (and they're right, it absolutely shouldn't). Nonetheless they still often give the impression that it doesn't even need to be _*_complemented_*_ by anything else (and IMO it does)._
The problem is that most guys don't have the options that operators get. Is the 5.56 the perfect round for every scenario? No, and Ian and Karl never argued that it is. But, for your typical GI, you've got to decide on one rifle/caliber and use that for everything. And many civilians rely on one rifle as well. All of the alternatives to 5.56 which you might prefer for longer range engagements come with enough drawbacks to render them inferior in other scenarios and thus a downgrade for general purpose use. Also, I would suggest that 5.56 is plenty capable of scoring effective hits at ranges where I question whether the typical soldier who is complaining about his 5.56 would be, in reality, any more likely to score hits with another caliber. Sure, you can carry more energy farther with heavier rounds, but if you're not making hits with the 5.56 it's difficult to imagine that your marksmanship will suddenly improve by changing calibers. And if you are making hits, then it's moot. There's a reason for the DM role.
Also 556 back then were not what it is now. M855A1 and other 70-77 gr modern 556 rounds are completely different beast. Older 556 are as Larry say 200m carbine rounds, but nowadays modern 556 rounds fragment out to 300 yards and beyond.
Larry was a special operator who's team was often way out on their own. Under those circumstances being able to choose a larger round is absolutely an advantage. However the general infantry does not rely on their individual weapons in the same way. Even in Afghanistan a squad can have a 7.62 machine gun to reach out and touch someone. There was an obvious gap in these small units weapons capabilities so the army pulled m14 back into service. That being said, regular army units often have much more assets at hand and if an enemy engages you out of range of 5.56 kill them with something bigger and call it a day. That being said when the enemy gets in close and you have to get down and dirty or when you have to clear out an urban area the 5.56 is king. So ya for a standard issue individual weapon for the "big" army 5.56 is not only adequate it's superior.
Ok so I won't have time to reply to everyone, but know that I have read/will read all of your replies and that so far you guys have good points. (Inb4, I'm suggesting complementation, not replacement. Basically all I'm saying is that an APC with 8-10 guys in it surely has space to fit 2-3 DMRs in .300 Winmag or the like).
It is really quite incredible how far we've come in a few short decades in terms of tactical weaponry. This was a tier one setup not all that long ago. Today you can equipt a PSA with 100 dollars worth of Amazon accessories and have a far superior setup all for under $1k. I'd still take this gem all day though.
The ship I retired from, USS John C Stennis, had at least one M-16A3 that it issued to armed sentries that had an XM-16-A1 marked lower on it circa 2013. No fence around the magazine release, and the parkerizing was really old. The division I was in when I retired had two bodies who were working in Security, and one of them came by the office to chat while armed up, and he had the rifle. I had a mild freak out when I looked at it, because I knew what it was, but the other guy didn't care. Lower receivers don't really wear out, so I'm sure NSWC Crane rebuilt the receiver into the A3 configuration and sent it back out.
My dad has one of those. Bought it in the 80’s and got grandfathered under the old laws here in California before all the bans. Built in flash suppressor, 5.56 barrel. Looks exactly like that without the scope and gernade launcher. Awesome rifle.
Perfect example of a weapons system that's balanced for most environments, excellent interview with Larry and what makes Delta an incredible special force.
US Military requisitions: "We've spent one hundred million dollars on developing and producing the very best, and worst, illumination equipment money can buy!" Delta Force: "We has flashlight held together with rubber bands and duct tape"
Brilliant video. I’m an amateur from the U.K. and know nothing practically about guns .... we can’t carry them. I’ve been watching forgotten weapons for a few months, just out of general interest and historical interest . But this video is brilliant, really informative, Ian is great and a fantastic insight from Larry in what he was using whilst serving his country. Brilliant !!
Pretty badass interview. I carried a Colt kind of like this during my first tour in Iraq. It was an M16 marked lower, with a Colt old-style carry handle CAR upper and an old-style aluminum buttstock. Most in my unit had newer normal Colt M4s, but for some reason this old oddball rifle was still in circulation and I got it. I thought it was cool.
Bushmaster used to make something pretty close to this: XM15-E2S. Semi auto, A1 upper, 14.5 barrel with flash hider brazed on for legality. A2 grip. Slender handguards. The differences are: teardrop F Assist, Yankee Hill flash hider. Larger sliding stock. I have one and it is nice and light. If you want to copy one of these start out with an XM15-E2S.
Thankfully, they started fielding 5.56 loads like Mk262 MOD 1, Mk318 MOD 1 and now M855A1 in great numbers after about 2010 which maintain accuracy and terminal performance well in excess of 600 yards with Mk262 being able to hit targets at nearly 800 yards. At the time, they only fielded M855 ammunition which was very mediocre in terms of terminal performance and not very accurate past 500 yards.
That aimpoint 2000 was my very first red dot sight. 1989, mounted it on my first handgun, a ruger mk2. 6 months later I got my first ar (Olympic arms a2) and mounted that aimpoint 2000 to the carry handle just like that. Good memories!
One of the best things to see is the collaboration and teaming of the great shooting channels. Whether it is MAC with Erik, Bloke with British Muzzleloaders, Othias and Mae with Ian, -and now Larry with Ian. Great job by all. -Just need to see Larry "taking us through" a full auto STG44 on Paul's "meat target" and the circle will be complete.
In Vietnam in 1968 they gave me a plastic gun that only had 20 round magazines. Took me two months in the field to back that up with a grease gun with 3 magazines. Not TO, but radio operators were given more slack. Carried my plastic rifle, 1911 & greaser. Came home, but still crazy after all these years. Semper Fi!
Vickers is such a cool cucumber. For a gruff old Delta guy he's really well spoken and knowledgeable. Always a pleasure to see him pop up from time to time.
When I was at Bragg in the 2000s, we had a cag guy come teach us some updated CQB TTPs and some load out tips and that included a few options for the double mag setup shown here. I don't envy a guy that spends more time in a shoot house than his own house, but I can't say I'm not glad they're there.
According to various sources from across the internet, Colt seemed to use whatever parts were available during production a run. The 723 and 727 were being produced during the A1 to A2 transition and have several factory weapons produced with a mixed combination of different lowers, A2 or C7 uppers and the pencil or government profile barrels. Even the large button forward assists had to be trimmed if it was installed on an A2 lower due to clearance with new reinforced buffer tower.
This is a one of a kind video seriously. Seeing what the unit goes through rain sleet snow and sunny, it’s interesting seeing what the troops on the ground do to adapt to the mission. Thanks Larry and Ian for this very informative and historical video
I’ve been using Vortex optics on my ARs. I have a .300 WM, 5.56 and a 6.8mm SPC. The 5.56 I only use in competition. It’s been lightened and anodized black and Cerakote did the upper and lower in a dark pink with a Hello Kitty for me. The 300 I don’t shoot much because it kinda scares me. I won in at a competition in Kentucky for junior 3 Gun; it’s made by Falkor Defense. My 5.56 is made by LWRC and the 6.8mm is a Daniel Defense. I’m still working on what works best for me. I’m sure I’d be more motivated if I had to use my rifles for work like you did, Mr Larry! P.S My dad got a Sig MPX in 9mm with a Vortex red dot. It has a magazine of Buffalo Bore +P jacketed hollow points. It also has a barrel light by SureFire. Dad thought I’d be more comfortable with the machine pistol than just a Glock 19X Gen 5.
The self made weapons light is the Underwater Kinetics Company's, "Super QXL" model diving flashlight. Lots of recreational scuba divers used these dive lights years ago. Underwater Kinetics and Pelican dive lights were the the most often used back then. I attached the Underwater Kinetics four C-sized battery one to my bouency compensator vest. Always took three lights. Especially when cave diving.
20:56 When I was in BCT, I was issued an M16A2 that was marked "Colt M16 A1" and the "A1" was scratched out and "A2" stamped in its place. Most of the other troops had FNH M16A2 rifles.
My rifle in Air Force Basic CATM was an M16A1, it didn't even have a brass deflector (it might have been rebuilt a few times). The sear was messed up and it would fire again when I let go of the trigger. Still shot marksman. You're damn right the Air Force never gets rid of anything.
lol thats the gun I would always use in that game. It was so powerful that you could shoot an enemy in the toe and he would die lol. pro tip: if you kill two of your own team mates or civilians the rest of your team will turn on you and actively chase down and shoot you lol
I've been a scuba diver since that time and we were using Underwater Kinetics lights like that back then. I'm not sure if the QXL had a halogen bulb or the xenon bulb back then? Not sure how many lumens they were, but super bright for cutting through the murk underwater. The X-Files production started using them for flashlights for Mulder and Scully because they looked cool with the bright beam through light fog in dark scenes.
This is one of my favorite Forgotten Weapons👍 Colt made so many different versions of the AR platform. I bought a commercial AR-15 A2 Commercial model in 1986ish and it had an A1 rear sight. I wish I still had it. I also liked the handling of the Commercial 10.5" Colt Commando M16 with the C7 upper. She was reliable as long as she was clean. Sold it before 1986. Who knew☹ I built a shoulder brace version for a replica. Also bought the Troy XM177E2. We still had some of them available in our armory to use in the 80's👍 Cheers
My fav is a Colt M-933 with the gas port modified and H2 buffer... runs reliably, really good accuracy out to 200+m and with a Griffin Flash Comp to tame the blast and/or mount a suppressor, makes it more "user friendly" while providing all the perks of a SBR. A direct decedent of the M-723 with a flattop upper.
You definitely can see those guys guarding Schwarzkopf in Desert Storm holding their CAR15's. Also a pic or 2 from Panama and even some Scud Hunter pics showed guys with em, too. I swear I saw a Colt 635 SMG in one of the pics. It definitely wasn't 5.56mm ammunition going into that AR15. First time I've ever heard of an AR15 SMG variant.
It's really cool to see what experts do to create top-quality but custom-made modifications to guns, like sawing off the carrying handle and mounting the optics directly, or rigging the flashlight to be a push button that's custom-mounted to the gun, that special jungle mag setup, etc.
Having joined the infantry in '96, I remember the variation of just the types and models in the service weapons. The FNs always turned an odd purple color.
I just finished a clone of this build (some minor differences, no Mag-Lite, Burris TRS-25 instead of the aimpoint) and I plan to run it at the next Desert Brutality.
Not so much with the CAR 15's at the time, but the SF guys I was attached to in 88 would pair an A1 lower (for the reasons Larry described) with an A2 upper for the better A2 sights and for the tighter rifling. Like Larry stated the A2 sights were a matter of personal preference. Loved this video, especially how he did the double mags.
Yea, I carried the CAR-15 with 3/75 Rgrs into Just Cauze. Solid weapon close in, but I agree the full size 7.62 is often a better weapon, size and weight notwithstanding. The way short barrels were often, in my experience, were carried with vehicle crews. Good weapon overall. I liked em. I agree with most of this Delta guy’s analysis. We did some work with these guys at times before then and worshipped them like Jedi at the time.
I can just picture those Delta guys trying to identify this thing: "So it says M16A2..." "But doesn't the A2 have a burst fire switch?" "Why isn't it marked US property?" "What the hell is this thing?"
@Uncle Creepy Well sure, but not each alteration of a specific weapon system. That's a little why collecting is silly. The dude who makes alterations to his weapon isn't thinking in the grand scheme how it compares to other rifles of the same model, he just wants it to work for a specific role.
@@sturmgewehr449 Look up the definition of "projecting," so that you can use it correctly next time. Don't let your vocabulary exceed your ability; it certainly exceeded your reading comprehension. We can all be thankful for "voice to text" technology, otherwise we would still be waiting on you to stumble through spelling your own Teutonic screen name. In the time that it took for you to write your ill-informed and poorly written post, you could have looked up the word and spared yourself that embarrassment. It is unfortunate that wisdom did not accompany aging in your case. Wisdom is intended to be nature's compensation for thinning hair and arthritic joints. Growing old without growing wise is the very definition of "pathetic."
Using 723s and 653s in the IDF (AF rear unit), it's interesting that Larry mentioned that the variation between the cutout barrels and the pencil barrels seemed rather random. I've noticed it too, but always attributed it to the IDF's armourers doing mix-n'-match between parts. Apparently that's not as common as I thought and it was Colt the whole time! Moreover, All of our lowers are marked as A1, but only some are marked as US govt. Some also have M4-style stocks and wider handguards, and some have CAR-15-style stocks 2/4-position, and thinner guards. We also use magazine clamps like Larry shows, but plastic 😁
I have a bunch of pics with my DCU shirt tucked in in Iraq in ‘03 and they always get questions. Long before the dump pouch we shoved empty mags down our blouse!
Being a 90s baby of Ft. Benning, we all wanted to carry this rifle. The M16 we qualified with was shit. The rifle and my uncle (a MAC V SOG CCN Vet) were my main reasons I went the direction I did. By the time I got to were I wanted to be we were given the SOPMOD Block one or the Mk18s (which I still love) and these were gone but trips to the armorer will always come with anything the Army gives you. Great vid. And, ah the memories. P.S. I wouldn't trade my old M2 (aimpoint) for anything.
Great stuff! Mr. Vickers, I used an Aimpoint 2000 on my 45-70 Marlin for quite a few years and really liked it! It is what you said and then some! PS, I think that QXL is/was made by Ikelight. I also dove and used one of them too
Ian and Larry is maybe the best combination of academic and practical knowledge in the guntuber community. Outstanding.
Mighty lefties.
body no what?
@@steveneaddy5298 they're both lefty shooters.
@kev french Yes, Larry has practical experience designing and using firearms. He worked at H&K after his time in Delta.
@@chadhaire1711 get your head examined, then look up the H&K45 on wikipedia, you absolute dunce.
As a young Marine in the late 80's early 90's I remember double mags taped together and lights attached to handguards. I also want to thank Larry for pointing out most people in the military (while they served) aren't into the firearms to the point we knew all of the designations and variants. Sometimes people think military personnel know everything about every weapon but in reality it's just a tool and most know enough to use it correctly, depending upon if they used it as a part of their job. Great video as always, thank you for your work. I'm sharing this old school info on my social media.
I can tell you that my dad was in the Corp. from 60-64, 50 years later he could recall the number of clicks to hit targets at various ranges like it was yesterday..
Never quite understood where the perception came from that every soldier has an armorers level understanding of the weapons they use. When the task of the soldier is to be proficient with the weapon and using it to effectively complete what ever their assigned task is.
This is exactly why I hate it when veterans on either side of the Constitution debate use their military service as leverage. Most civilians know and or care more about guns than they do.
Zeus agree that most mil only know their weapons, but don’t equate the 1 percent of gun guys to most civilians, 99 percent of civilians know even less than the non-gun guy military members
@@ronhmclaughlin Well said! SGM (R) Army 11B 99-2018, O311 USMC 94-98.
When I was stationed at Kunsan Air Base, I used to carry a M-16, no A1, no A2, just M-16 A nothing. It had the early sights, triangular handguards, 3 prong flash suppressor, no forward assist and chrome bolt. It belonged in a museum.
If you were in the Air Force you may have been carrying a Colt 601 relic( green stock and forearm) and Yes it IS a rare antique.
No forward assist? Eeegast!
@@v1vGAMERTAGv1v My uncle was in in 1966, He said kicking or slamming the charging handle was the vietnam answer to "Forward Assist" (and often jar fires.) But he said the big problem were jams, because of the use of "bad powder" clogged the gas ports and made a tar like mess, and they finally got cleaning kits right before he came home.
@@mosriteminioncause7741
The works in practice grunt logic that gave us the Grease gun. "Tf yous need a charging handle for? Treat it like your wife, don't be shy, the bolt doesn't bite."
I'm trying to think of scenario where I've had a malfunction that NEEDED a forward assist, nope. Doesn't exist
@@v1vGAMERTAGv1v i can only think of extremely cold weather and the metal shrunk to the point that it wont chamber and seat the round but they should never be in a situation like that
This video is gold: we really get what the soldiers actually do, compared to how military and companies design the guns.
Yeah if you want the real info on a particular weapon you have to get it from the guys that carried them. Because they will tell us right up front that X, Y and Z are wrong with it D, E and F are OK, and A, B and C are what they got right, or how we made it right in the field.
The one issue that Larry didn't have to deal with is the "this is how its issued, AND how you'll use it".
80s\90s tactical gunsmithing is really interesting to see how creative these high-level users used commercial tech and cludges to get what would be easy customizable today.
@@Yutter89 What's easily customizable today is a product of those high-level users retiring and joining the industry or talking to the manufacturing guys about their experiences and how/why they did things.
From the perspective of someone who makes things, that mag setup and why he uses duct tape for it is super interesting. I've got a roll of Fiberflex 40D I need to get running through my machine and then I may try to design a modern 3D printable version of that setup using my Pmags.
@@Yutter89 i honestly feel the more "DIY" look and the transitional rail piece attachement on the A1 carry handle is way more aesthetically pleasing than the streamlined rail systems and flat top recievers on new ARs
@@Gameprojordan oh I love diy looks, but function wise I know the modern stuff is going to work better in the end. Still great to see and hell who cares if you wanna mess with one for fun? Make a cheapo PSA copy just for the wall.
All of the real world trial and error that went into the modifications, like the rubber band for the IR cap, inner tube for dive light, specially drilled receiver extension position for body armor, etc is just fascinating. Larry is the perfect guy to explain it all😎
I would've never thought that an elite infantry unit would use a rubber band for a gun function but it makes perfect sense here.
@@skinny55772
Used rubber bands to secure chem lights to my buttstock for years.
Saw a video where some former SEAL guy always rubber banded a tourniquet to his rifle stock.
Then you supposedly had Soviet troops wrapping their Tourniquets / medical supplies to the folding or "triangle" framed stocks of their guns too. I'm fairly sure Karl did a video where he ran the same idea on his "AK74" for InrangeTV.
If its cheap, easy to get, and works, you might as well use it. Like using Silly String to check for traps or trip wires.
@@xmm-cf5eg I remember seeing that video but don't remember who it was. Something I've learned is that when it comes to soldiers, its all about ease of use and ease of replication/repair. A fancy tie off to put your tourniquet to your rifle might look cool, but a shitty rubber band that you can just rip off is way faster to use when you're in a gun fight and super easy to replace after you've used it.
@Richard Susi
I'd have to agree, duct tape and zip ties have yet to fail me.
18:23 the mags even have old followers. The attention to detail is impeccable in this clone
Does it have paracord mag pulls??? 🤔
And of note, Larry said they never had any problem with them, but they were all Colt manufacturing. No mention of follower tilt or green followers.
@@mrkeogh Why mag pulls? This starts in the rifle, you don't pull it out of a pouch.
those old magazines worked, I was a weapons instructor we had tons of them and they always worked I used to tell some of my more weapons challegned students the way the follower points is the way the round goes into the magazine, yes we still had people who could not load a magazine properly (but these were Air Force people who never handled weapons on a daily basis like I did)
@@bikecommuter24 I helped out CATM on the range, I watched a guy try to put .38 rounds into the front of the cylinder of the model 15.
Ian just lets Larry talk and only asks the occasional clarification - great interviewer. Larry is so authentic. He doesn’t need to act tacti-cool and distant, he just talks and you know he’s the real thing.
I finally have something featured on Forgotten Weapons. I love those Pilot G-2 pens.
They're real straight shots.
I was really excited when Ian did the Inglis High Power video until I realized it wasn't the washing machine that I do my laundry with!
Nothing but love for the G-2. My inner weeb died when they started being produced in the US, though.
Lister lol'ed.
Not Pilot dogg. Staples BPI-PG (pregel)
Outstanding video once again. Plus, the new book on WWII firearms is amazing. Great work Ian, I love how far the channel and your success have come over the years. You’ve earned every sub and cent. Here’s to continued success in the future!
Thanks!
Love to see people actually supporting each other! Love both your channels gentlemen!
@Fabian Brown "Oh looks it's Mr Israel-First" Everyone loves Freedom. Well, not everyone, apparently.
@Fabian Brown Who still won't answer any questions about his involvement in the white supremacist Oath Keepers. He was very loud and proud of it a few years back but not so much now that their true face has been exposed to the public. Is he distancing himself from the group and their white supremacy, or is he just trying to keep a lid on his own white supremacy?
@@cheddar2648 Pretty sure Palestinians would like some freedom from being murdered by a foreign oppressor.
I have a 90s Bushmaster XM15 government use only marked with a fixed carry handle. I love it. It's my favorite rifle out of the 10 ARs I own. It may be 90s outdated tech but i love how robust it is.
10 ARs? I’m jealous...
I have one of those ‘90’s Bushmasters myself. You’re absolutely right, they’re built like a tank and Swiss watch had a love child!
@@rippersix293 i have the same carbine, Bushy xm 15, and was fortunate enough to take a very small class with Larry, in 2019, and i used that rifle. Runs like a swiss watch.
Fixed carry handle ARs are very aesthetic. I'd love to own one.
Right, it's kinda like comparing an old well build muscle car to the newer more efficient versions.
“I haven’t modified it because I don’t feel like hitting the prison again”
Just in case. lol.
Larry went to prison?!
Yes he went te rescue some people from a prison somewhere
Look up Operation Acid Gambit. Thats what he’s talking about when he says hitting modelo prison
Oh shit I thought like the ATF arrested him or some shit and got stressed out. I'm glad it wasn't that
I love the pragmatism that comes through in these interviews, it's great to see a discussion like this on practical use more so than competition or 2gun.
"I remember seeing in the armourers room they had sawed off the carry handle and bolted on a piece of picitiny rail."
That sentence makes me want to be a armourer so badly.
I love hearing stories like that and guns like the Owen SMG that were made by a Teen in a Garage with Bike parts
@@rubenlopez3364 I know this is an old comment but the l96 was made by 3 guys in a shed
Didn't happen
you should turn this type of video into a regular series with various vets who go through the weapons they carried.
i always found the "proto M4's" more cooler than the M4 Carbines themselves
I agree unfortunately, because I can’t afford it, so I have to use games.
same here my favorite is the colt 653
Yep love the Colt 609/XM177E1
fixed carry handles just make em look classier
I just googled the CAR15 today. Such a beautiful gun.
Love listening to guys like Larry. Everyone thinks SF troops are all Gucci kit but a lot of the stuff they do with their kit is basically bodging with tape and glue to get things to work the way they need. No matter how new it is they'll still adapt it.
back then, yeah they had to improvise. after their retirement, they joined or worked for a gun company and integrated these "improvised" handmade upgrades into the gun system through picatiny, m-lock, etc. so the newer guys have an easier access for those upgrades.
I can’t wait for Larry and Ken to do a review on your WWSD carbine.
That would be awesome!
Yeah, that would be cool. It inspired me to build a poor copy, myself. I lucked out and seemed to have bought the last polymer receiver that GWACS sold. I wish they would start producing more receivers. It makes for a super light rifle.
after the Yeet Cannon - 9 we might have the : [ "↑↑↓→ c4rb1n3" ]
That actually would be cool
mcjon77 GWACS is not producing lowers any longer?
In 30 years, you’ll have to explain the Yeet Cannon
Somebody needs to explain that bs today...
Oof
Lifetime warranty on a cheap gun. 'nuff said.
No, no. We need an explanation now since WHO DECIDED ON THE NAME YEET CANNON I NEED TO GIVE HIM A HUNDRED COWS
@@squishy2229 If I remember correctly it was voted on by random internet users.
I am still in the navy and I am issued a FN M4 upper receiver with a colt XM177 lower that I can tell has been rebuilt by Crane multiple times!!!!! In 2019!!!!!!
What's your job in the navy out of interest?
Steven Premmel probably MA, in BMT they gave me a flat side M16 lower with the selector markings engraved with a scribe. That was pretty funny
Steven Premmel MA in a riverine squadron.
Jordan E hahahahaha I have not seen the electro pencil yet but I did have a Hydromatic M16 a while ago made by GM lol it was a M16A1 lower on a 727 upper.
@@MinimumSpeedOperator Very cool.
When he said he's right handed but left eye dominant, that really made me realize the level in which special forces operate I just never could have imagined. You're trying to achieve a level of success where things like that are taken into account. It's also said so matter of factly that this is presented in such a cooler way, to me, then some YT video like "we sat down with a former Navy Seal and here are the top TEN things THEY DON'T TELL YOU!"
Everyone who shoots figures out which eye is dominant. Doesn't really matter with pistols, but you should definitely shoot with your dominant eye with rifles. Back when Larry was in it wad probably less common, but today, everyone does this
These days any military shooting instructor worth a damn will have the entire class figure out which is their dominant eye before even hitting the range, I can’t speak for how things were in the 90s and earlier but in the 7 years I’ve been in the good instructors have done it.
My friends laughed at me when I fixed and old keyboard with some loose keys by rolling up and jamming a piece of toilet paper cardboard beneath the key, It makes me feel good knowing this guy folded and jammed a piece of MRE cardboard between his two mags to get his jungle-style setup done.
Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.
@@notbot8830 Sounds like something the Marines would say.
I've got a Norwegian Army/Home Guard manual on patrolling from the 1950s, and there's illustrations of the same type of mag clamping in there, using a stick or pencil as the stand-off between the mags
IDF uses a spent round
I had no idea I bought a Delta approved Aimpoint for my Sako L579 back in mid 80's here in Finland.
My son has that combo today. He threaded the barrel and goes out in the woods with his buddies as free men.
Always really impressed by Larry's attention to details. You can see the amount of attention he pays to potential hazards and the thought he puts into *everything*.
Yes I had similar modifications to my marlin 22 racoon gun when I was 7
Infinity War is the most ambitious crossover event in history
Gun Jesus and Delta Force Dad:
We need a gun Jesus and daddy evans
We never adjusted our A2 rear sights, we just new our holds. You can easily shoot out to 300 meters without any adjustments
That's because it was zeroed for 300. Anything between 100 and 200 was hold low, everything else is dead hold.
@@zoiders From 0 to 300M, with a 300M zero, the arc is about 4 inches high at around 150M.
@@zoiders BS, I always found the need to hold low on anything short of 300 (assuming a battle sight zero of 300 meters), especially at 200-250. You might still hit him at that range holding center mass but it is going to hit higher than that and likely hit him in the neck or even head.
We were trained to just adjust point of aim. There's no time to adjust sights and then you may have to immediately engage another target at a different distance. Just set and forget. Adjust point of aim unless doing more sensitive work like reaching out, WAY out, beyond your 300 meter BSZ, then,,, maybe.
All that said, I really have to disagree with Mr. Vickers about the A2 sigths being too complicated. I never found anyone struggling with understanding this sight. A simple knob/dial adjustment for each direction and 2 sizes of rear reticle (only one of which did I ever find useful [small]). Actually the larger one was handy for when in NBC gear but that was it.
@@WhoWouldWantThisName by too complicated he doesn't mean people struggled to understand it but that it was unnecessarily complex, as in they didn't actually need all that variability
Towards the end of the video you mentioned the Air Force M16 and some of the variants. When I was in Afghanistan in 2011-2012 I was issued an M16A2, but the first thing I noticed was that the lower was a completely different color and fairly worn. It was marked Colt AR-15 M16 and it had an "A2" electropenciled next to M16 and over by the selector switch it had "Safe", "Semi", and in the final position where it was blank "BURST" was electropenciled in. It was a partial fence lower and so I think it would have been the Colt 604, and when I did a serial number search the date of issue to the USAF would have been 1964/65 time frame.
Interesting stuff right there.
Operator119 A few years ago I was able to see a couple full size Colts, with the 20”bbls, that were first issued to the U.S.A.F. These were rifles that came from the Government 1033 program where they gave rifles to various civilian Law Enforcement Agencies to use as “patrol Rifles”. The Colts were early enough that they were still marked “AR15”, but had the select fire markings/capability of an M16. They were in remarkably good shape for their age, so they obviously were not use outside of a AF base possibly. Good Day to You!
@@tierone4761 That definitely interesting. And yeah it depends I guess. I would say most AF rifles are kept in the armories and shot only when people do an initial qualification or predeployment. In some cases there are rifles already downrange that just get carried around for just-in-case purposes and the ones that get used often are generally carried by Security Forces, PJs, and JTACs
@@operator1192
correct weapons that would be issued if needed were kept in Armories, Combat Arms Training kept a bunch of rifles in their weapons safe that were used for training and qualification.
We were taught "Battle Zero" where during qualification we kept track of our adjustments and when we got a rifle we just set that rifle to those settings. All M16's in the storage Armories were set to Mechanical Zero.
Security Police and others issued weapons on a daily basis their weapons were zeroed for that operator.
I'm a retired CATM instructor.
Donald Kline Media that checks with what I’ve experienced as well. Thanks for the info!
I love seeing modifications that are seemingly rough field bodges that actually have real careful consideration for practicality.
I left SO in '88 but, one of the neatest things about being around back then was the creativity, especially with the armorers. Ours built an A2 with a 22 inch barrel to test as a DM rifle, loved that little tack driver. Comm guys were always coming up with new ways to get more out of our equipment. Everything was new and shiny and kind of crappy but, definitely worth the work to have a base to view all the cool stuff the kids have now.
I can't tell you how special it is to hear LAV speak like this. To an Australian gun guy and for the others down here, Larry is a National Treasure for us. I hope he's respected even more vehemtly in the US. Awesome.
I hope so too. I know idiots make fun of his weight gain. I see it as jealousy. Larry actually accomplishes things in his life
@@spookypunky he managed to lose all of the weight anyway so fuck the haters
I love how Larry is big on brand loyalty... Like he says, he's used them for years and had zero problems so he gives them big ups... Cheaper isn't always better
Reminds me of the pictures and stories of my dad's equipment and modifications from his time in the Rangers around the early 80's. They'd put vinyl camo contact paper on the handguards and stocks of their M16A1's and use various modifications to their slings to make them easier to carry at the ready. Then there was also the mags. They'd run paracord through the floorplates to achieve what we'd now call a 'mag pull' and put duct tape around the bottom 1/3 of the mags to keep them from rattling in the pouches. He still has a full set of those mags (his spare set for inspections) and we built a replica rifle for him a few years back.
Of course, being somebody that actually knew how to shoot, they also had him as the sniper for a time. Now at the time the job was simply called 'sniper', though modern types would prefer to call it designated marksman. Either way it was pre-Army sniper school, so they sent some people to learn from the Marines instead and come back to teach the rest. His rifle was one of the early M21s (scoped and accurized M14), based on what I can tell from his pictures. Early enough to still have a commercial Redfield ART scope that was painted over, rather than an actual contract one that was matte anodized. But the real amusing part was the improvised cheek piece. I kid you not, they duct taped a pack of 'sanitary napkins' to the stock to make a cheek piece. Apparently it worked very well, certainly better than the leather cheek piece he got for his 'functional repro' M21 (couldn't get the right scope, so we made do with a modern one that functions mostly the same as the ART I scope).
And finally, inspired by his desire to make repros of his rifles, I (having not actually been in the military) made my own version of what I'd do to make my idea of a customized service rifle. I did go with the M16A2 as the base partly because I grew up around M1s and M14s and had gotten used to that level of adjustability to the sights (as had the Marines that pushed for that sight), but opted for a chrome bolt carrier, because I've always found that (well done) chrome plating cleans the easiest of all of the coatings I've had experience with. I also used the taller, skinnier C7-style of handguard, never liked the full-sized, full-round M16A2 type, then camo dipped the funiture to emulate that vinyl contact paper that he used to use. All in all, it's been the best of the AR-15s we've built together, haven't had another one go together as easily and it's accurate and reliable, if a little old-fashioned and 80's looking (and yes, I do have a slightly more modern one to grab in case civilization breaks down, but I'd still consider that A2 perfectly useable).
Good stuff.
That is a great story, good for you folks in building that for your dad. I'm sure he treasures it.
@@hacksskillsmods8916 Actually he was heavily involved. Think of it as a more grown up father and son project. We've been building stuff together since I was old enough to start fetching his tools for him, though it was mostly the house (still not quite finished, but that's kind of how houses are). It's a bit like the old Japanese battleship Fuso, endlessly modified and updated.
@@USSEnterpriseA1701 That is a great thing. Cherish those moments. Glad you have such a good relationship with your dad.
Great story. Thanks for sharing it.
Right handed with a dominant left eye. Glad im not the only one
Im left,right eye......Sucks. Was very hard to shoot at first. Very uncomfortable.
Yeah, I got shocked first time I saw a lefty. Just taught them to keep both eyes open and learn to use the right on the optic. Brain does the rest
Daughter #1 shoots the same way, and very well.
GUNSOLID The Siegeology
You’re doing it wrong. Swap all the way over to lefty. Use the left hand on the grip, right hand for support, and you’ll start to hit shit.
I’m left eye dominant, right handed, served from 04-09, and never had an issue when I swapped over to lefty for long guns. Of course all the range time and training helped. As a kid I didn’t know any better and would often ignore rifles. Shotguns natural point of aim and it was easy mode for me. Handguns I could cheat over to my left eye right handed. Still do.
All you’re doing is swapping your trigger finger. Being right hand dominant keeping that firing hand on the trigger is easy, and all your reloads will be natural and fluid.
same
Great in-depth overview! Always interesting to know what thought and modded guys in the field.
Yess
Mr. Larry Vickers, thank you so much-I thought it was just me with the steel double mag holder causing rounds vibrating out on the spare mag!! Mine especially was doing it with my Ruger SR556 in 6.8 SPC, only made in that caliber by them one year, and in gas piston just like I wanted. I like to think I was ahead of the curve, even got into internet fights, about the 6.8SPC AND gas piston being superior. Using quick lean targets, like a 4x4 against a medium sized oak tree, I had Silver State Armory 6.8SPC 115gr OTMs go through the 4x4 and into the softer center of the tree and explode. It did not take many rounds, to our surprise, to see the tree fall over!
It’s comforting to know that we have intelligent guys like this in our Armed Forces who are real experts on the tools they need to accomplish their missions.
SpecOps accounts for less than 70,000 out of the 1.2 million active US service personnel. That 70,000 only came in the last few years when SpecOps was increased from 33,000 men. And Delta Force is only a tiny fraction of SpecOps.
Got that XM177A2 back 1968, down there, worked flawlessly. May be it's me, but I'm alive.
As a 10 year veteran Marine I find it so interesting that once upon a time carbines were considered weapons for noncombatants, support types with other primary roles, while the long guns were for the front lines.
Then there was a change where carbines became the sought after standard for front line combatants, relegating left over long rifles for the support types and rear echelon.
And now, which is the most interesting part, the military seems to be going back to giving the long n heavies back to the front lines lol.
Yep. As a commo guy in Iraq I got a "musket" (M16A2). The platoon guys who went outside the wire got M4s with ACOGs. I eventually convinced the armorer to let me trade my m16 for an m9 to carry around the FOB.
Nothing better than a professional who knows his craft and knows what works in the real world. Great stuff.
Delta force sounds so badass
That's like something from an 80ies action flick staring an oiled up body builder
Ironically most Delta guys don't look like that. They look like regular everyday dudes, except they can kill you with minimal effort several dozen ways.
The crossover we needed
Yeah I like Larry... At first I kinda didn't, and I know a lot of people get this douche vibe from him. But I think that's just his personality tbh.
Especially since he definitely is proud of what he did for his country,
Mike Davis - I read crossbow ...... was like wth..... then re read......
Garand Thumb and Ian would be the GOAT
We need a skallgrim or paul harrel crossover
S PACE that was in Op black Mesa.
"You need to have different tools in your toolbox" - I'm glad Larry said this and that he said it specifically to Ian. I have a solid appreciation for what 5.56 can do and a substantial amount of respect for Ian and Karl, but I'm still not convinced by their "5.56 is all you need" mantra.
Being stuck with 5.56 in open terrain seems like a nightmare engagement. Having one general issue rifle in one caliber is something that a small nation with homogenous terrain and no foreign military missions could pull off and the US don't particularly fit any of those categories :D
_EDIT: I would hate to misquote I&K and to be quite honest, most of the times they so vividly defended the 5.56 was when people asked them whether it should be directly _*_replaced_*_ (and they're right, it absolutely shouldn't). Nonetheless they still often give the impression that it doesn't even need to be _*_complemented_*_ by anything else (and IMO it does)._
I love Ian and Carl's work, but they could simply ask any soldier in Afghanistan if 5.56 was fine for longer engagements before stating that.
The problem is that most guys don't have the options that operators get. Is the 5.56 the perfect round for every scenario? No, and Ian and Karl never argued that it is. But, for your typical GI, you've got to decide on one rifle/caliber and use that for everything. And many civilians rely on one rifle as well. All of the alternatives to 5.56 which you might prefer for longer range engagements come with enough drawbacks to render them inferior in other scenarios and thus a downgrade for general purpose use.
Also, I would suggest that 5.56 is plenty capable of scoring effective hits at ranges where I question whether the typical soldier who is complaining about his 5.56 would be, in reality, any more likely to score hits with another caliber. Sure, you can carry more energy farther with heavier rounds, but if you're not making hits with the 5.56 it's difficult to imagine that your marksmanship will suddenly improve by changing calibers. And if you are making hits, then it's moot. There's a reason for the DM role.
Also 556 back then were not what it is now. M855A1 and other 70-77 gr modern 556 rounds are completely different beast. Older 556 are as Larry say 200m carbine rounds, but nowadays modern 556 rounds fragment out to 300 yards and beyond.
Larry was a special operator who's team was often way out on their own. Under those circumstances being able to choose a larger round is absolutely an advantage. However the general infantry does not rely on their individual weapons in the same way. Even in Afghanistan a squad can have a 7.62 machine gun to reach out and touch someone. There was an obvious gap in these small units weapons capabilities so the army pulled m14 back into service. That being said, regular army units often have much more assets at hand and if an enemy engages you out of range of 5.56 kill them with something bigger and call it a day. That being said when the enemy gets in close and you have to get down and dirty or when you have to clear out an urban area the 5.56 is king. So ya for a standard issue individual weapon for the "big" army 5.56 is not only adequate it's superior.
Ok so I won't have time to reply to everyone, but know that I have read/will read all of your replies and that so far you guys have good points.
(Inb4, I'm suggesting complementation, not replacement. Basically all I'm saying is that an APC with 8-10 guys in it surely has space to fit 2-3 DMRs in .300 Winmag or the like).
It is really quite incredible how far we've come in a few short decades in terms of tactical weaponry. This was a tier one setup not all that long ago. Today you can equipt a PSA with 100 dollars worth of Amazon accessories and have a far superior setup all for under $1k. I'd still take this gem all day though.
The ship I retired from, USS John C Stennis, had at least one M-16A3 that it issued to armed sentries that had an XM-16-A1 marked lower on it circa 2013. No fence around the magazine release, and the parkerizing was really old. The division I was in when I retired had two bodies who were working in Security, and one of them came by the office to chat while armed up, and he had the rifle. I had a mild freak out when I looked at it, because I knew what it was, but the other guy didn't care. Lower receivers don't really wear out, so I'm sure NSWC Crane rebuilt the receiver into the A3 configuration and sent it back out.
My dad has one of those. Bought it in the 80’s and got grandfathered under the old laws here in California before all the bans. Built in flash suppressor, 5.56 barrel. Looks exactly like that without the scope and gernade launcher. Awesome rifle.
This episode is SO GOOD. More of this, when possible please!
Perfect example of a weapons system that's balanced for most environments, excellent interview with Larry and what makes Delta an incredible special force.
US Military requisitions: "We've spent one hundred million dollars on developing and producing the very best, and worst, illumination equipment money can buy!"
Delta Force: "We has flashlight held together with rubber bands and duct tape"
Brilliant video. I’m an amateur from the U.K. and know nothing practically about guns .... we can’t carry them. I’ve been watching forgotten weapons for a few months, just out of general interest and historical interest . But this video is brilliant, really informative, Ian is great and a fantastic insight from Larry in what he was using whilst serving his country. Brilliant !!
Pretty badass interview. I carried a Colt kind of like this during my first tour in Iraq. It was an M16 marked lower, with a Colt old-style carry handle CAR upper and an old-style aluminum buttstock. Most in my unit had newer normal Colt M4s, but for some reason this old oddball rifle was still in circulation and I got it. I thought it was cool.
Did you have a optic mounted on the carry handle, or did they make you use Iron sights?
@@YugoM92 I had no optic on that rifle, which was fine with me. On subsequent tours I had an ACOG on a flat top M4.
@@dbrown2264 thanks for the info.
I had no idea that these were still being used after the M4 was adopted.
Very cool video and rifle. I like that he clearly knows so much about it but is still humble enough to admit when he doesn't know a certain detail.
As a marine going from the A1 to the A2 I loved the A2 rear sight.. once I got it figured out.. love the video 👍😊
Bushmaster used to make something pretty close to this: XM15-E2S. Semi auto, A1 upper, 14.5 barrel with flash hider brazed on for legality. A2 grip. Slender handguards. The differences are: teardrop F Assist, Yankee Hill flash hider. Larger sliding stock. I have one and it is nice and light. If you want to copy one of these start out with an XM15-E2S.
"Basically a 200 meter gun in the desert....a joke" Sage advice
Its appaling that they diddnt dig out the m14s the army has stockpiled as they knew full well contacts would be long range
weird science they did that. The m14 wasn’t good at that. The ar-10 did it better.
Thankfully, they started fielding 5.56 loads like Mk262 MOD 1, Mk318 MOD 1 and now M855A1 in great numbers after about 2010 which maintain accuracy and terminal performance well in excess of 600 yards with Mk262 being able to hit targets at nearly 800 yards. At the time, they only fielded M855 ammunition which was very mediocre in terms of terminal performance and not very accurate past 500 yards.
That aimpoint 2000 was my very first red dot sight. 1989, mounted it on my first handgun, a ruger mk2. 6 months later I got my first ar (Olympic arms a2) and mounted that aimpoint 2000 to the carry handle just like that. Good memories!
rubberbanding a flash to your mag is the real-life equivalent of hot keying your grenades
The game boys always gotta come up with the funny phrases when gaming ain't got anything to do with real world shooting and tactical shit.
Jazzman3121 gamers are the next generation of possible gun owners, so why do you talk shit on em?
@@aninjawaffle98 Cause gatekeeping is fun.
@@Jazzman-bj9fq ok boomer
@@aninjawaffle98 Some of them maybe but for now they're in fantasyland. Further again, gaming ain't got nothing to do with real life guns.
Great to see these two guys sit down and walk through the details.
One of the best things to see is the collaboration and teaming of the great shooting channels. Whether it is MAC with Erik, Bloke with British Muzzleloaders, Othias and Mae with Ian, -and now Larry with Ian. Great job by all. -Just need to see Larry "taking us through" a full auto STG44 on Paul's "meat target" and the circle will be complete.
In Vietnam in 1968 they gave me a plastic gun that only had 20 round magazines. Took me two months in the field to back that up with a grease gun with 3 magazines. Not TO, but radio operators were given more slack. Carried my plastic rifle, 1911 & greaser. Came home, but still crazy after all these years. Semper Fi!
That carry handle mount looks way better than the goose neck one I was issued as a PVT.
Much more awkward to use though. The goose neck was actually a substantial improvement.
In the mid 1980’s I cut up a rubber typewriter desk pad in my arms room and made spacers for my similar “jungle clip” setups. Worked great.
But did it run like a champ?
No larry did tho
Without a doubt.
Vickers is such a cool cucumber. For a gruff old Delta guy he's really well spoken and knowledgeable. Always a pleasure to see him pop up from time to time.
When I was at Bragg in the 2000s, we had a cag guy come teach us some updated CQB TTPs and some load out tips and that included a few options for the double mag setup shown here.
I don't envy a guy that spends more time in a shoot house than his own house, but I can't say I'm not glad they're there.
According to various sources from across the internet, Colt seemed to use whatever parts were available during production a run. The 723 and 727 were being produced during the A1 to A2 transition and have several factory weapons produced with a mixed combination of different lowers, A2 or C7 uppers and the pencil or government profile barrels. Even the large button forward assists had to be trimmed if it was installed on an A2 lower due to clearance with new reinforced buffer tower.
It’s really impressive how creative the military had to get attaching accessories prior to the adoption of picatinny rail uppers and quad rails
This is a one of a kind video seriously. Seeing what the unit goes through rain sleet snow and sunny, it’s interesting seeing what the troops on the ground do to adapt to the mission. Thanks Larry and Ian for this very informative and historical video
I’ve been using Vortex optics on my ARs. I have a .300 WM, 5.56 and a 6.8mm SPC.
The 5.56 I only use in competition. It’s been lightened and anodized black and Cerakote did the upper and lower in a dark pink with a Hello Kitty for me.
The 300 I don’t shoot much because it kinda scares me. I won in at a competition in Kentucky for junior 3 Gun; it’s made by Falkor Defense.
My 5.56 is made by LWRC and the 6.8mm is a Daniel Defense.
I’m still working on what works best for me. I’m sure I’d be more motivated if I had to use my rifles for work like you did, Mr Larry!
P.S
My dad got a Sig MPX in 9mm with a Vortex red dot. It has a magazine of Buffalo Bore +P jacketed hollow points. It also has a barrel light by SureFire.
Dad thought I’d be more comfortable with the machine pistol than just a Glock 19X Gen 5.
The self made weapons light is the Underwater Kinetics Company's, "Super QXL" model diving flashlight. Lots of recreational scuba divers used these dive lights years ago. Underwater Kinetics and Pelican dive lights were the the most often used back then. I attached the Underwater Kinetics four C-sized battery one to my bouency compensator vest. Always took three lights. Especially when cave diving.
20:56 When I was in BCT, I was issued an M16A2 that was marked "Colt M16 A1" and the "A1" was scratched out and "A2" stamped in its place. Most of the other troops had FNH M16A2 rifles.
My rifle in Air Force Basic CATM was an M16A1, it didn't even have a brass deflector (it might have been rebuilt a few times). The sear was messed up and it would fire again when I let go of the trigger. Still shot marksman.
You're damn right the Air Force never gets rid of anything.
Getting "Black Hawk Down vibes" everyone? Because *Larry Vic's Colt Model 723 Set-Up* "perfectly screams" _BHD_ to me. 😅
Exactly what I thought too!
lol thats the gun I would always use in that game. It was so powerful that you could shoot an enemy in the toe and he would die lol. pro tip: if you kill two of your own team mates or civilians the rest of your team will turn on you and actively chase down and shoot you lol
@@slaughterround643 It's a perfectly accurate rendition of what ACTUALLY happened .
@@slaughterround643 There's games of it, _one of them_ particularly called *Delta Force: Black Hawk Down*
@@xjamesx7047 That was a badass game🤘
I've been a scuba diver since that time and we were using Underwater Kinetics lights like that back then. I'm not sure if the QXL had a halogen bulb or the xenon bulb back then? Not sure how many lumens they were, but super bright for cutting through the murk underwater. The X-Files production started using them for flashlights for Mulder and Scully because they looked cool with the bright beam through light fog in dark scenes.
"Gordies gone man. I'll be outside. Good luck."
That scene sprang to mind when I saw the thumbnail
This is one of my favorite Forgotten Weapons👍
Colt made so many different versions of the AR platform.
I bought a commercial AR-15 A2 Commercial model in 1986ish and it had an A1 rear sight. I wish I still had it.
I also liked the handling of the Commercial 10.5" Colt Commando M16 with the C7 upper. She was reliable as long as she was clean.
Sold it before 1986. Who knew☹
I built a shoulder brace version for a replica. Also bought the Troy XM177E2.
We still had some of them available in our armory to use in the 80's👍
Cheers
This is awesome.. When field expediency was a skill of a light infantryman.
My fav is a Colt M-933 with the gas port modified and H2 buffer... runs reliably, really good accuracy out to 200+m and with a Griffin Flash Comp to tame the blast and/or mount a suppressor, makes it more "user friendly" while providing all the perks of a SBR. A direct decedent of the M-723 with a flattop upper.
You definitely can see those guys guarding Schwarzkopf in Desert Storm holding their CAR15's. Also a pic or 2 from Panama and even some Scud Hunter pics showed guys with em, too.
I swear I saw a Colt 635 SMG in one of the pics. It definitely wasn't 5.56mm ammunition going into that AR15. First time I've ever heard of an AR15 SMG variant.
It's really cool to see what experts do to create top-quality but custom-made modifications to guns, like sawing off the carrying handle and mounting the optics directly, or rigging the flashlight to be a push button that's custom-mounted to the gun, that special jungle mag setup, etc.
A local gunshop was milling off AR handles and mounting rails or long scope bases long before the flattops came out.
Received my copy of the WWII Volume II book today. :)
Good for you
Two of the most informed people in the industry. Really good interview and great to see you both on the same screen. Thanks gents.
Having joined the infantry in '96, I remember the variation of just the types and models in the service weapons. The FNs always turned an odd purple color.
Ive watched this one two times now. I wish you could interview vets more often about their guns.
I just finished a clone of this build (some minor differences, no Mag-Lite, Burris TRS-25 instead of the aimpoint) and I plan to run it at the next Desert Brutality.
Not so much with the CAR 15's at the time, but the SF guys I was attached to in 88 would pair an A1 lower (for the reasons Larry described) with an A2 upper for the better A2 sights and for the tighter rifling. Like Larry stated the A2 sights were a matter of personal preference. Loved this video, especially how he did the double mags.
Man, nice video. Nice to see a guest who is very practiced in real world use of this weapon.
A wonderful combination, I could listen to these two all day.
Brownells should make the A1/A2 upper receiver Larry is talking about: A2 dual apertures in a slick sided A1 upper with an A2 shell deflector.
Yea, I carried the CAR-15 with 3/75 Rgrs into Just Cauze. Solid weapon close in, but I agree the full size 7.62 is often a better weapon, size and weight notwithstanding. The way short barrels were often, in my experience, were carried with vehicle crews. Good weapon overall. I liked em. I agree with most of this Delta guy’s analysis. We did some work with these guys at times before then and worshipped them like Jedi at the time.
were they vietnam era or more like a m4 or short m16a2?
I can just picture those Delta guys trying to identify this thing:
"So it says M16A2..."
"But doesn't the A2 have a burst fire switch?"
"Why isn't it marked US property?"
"What the hell is this thing?"
Liam Thompson then the armorer then yells out “C.A.R.!”
@Uncle Creepy Well sure, but not each alteration of a specific weapon system. That's a little why collecting is silly. The dude who makes alterations to his weapon isn't thinking in the grand scheme how it compares to other rifles of the same model, he just wants it to work for a specific role.
@@DowntownDeuce2 the hell is wrong with you? now you're just projecting, that's pathetic
@@sturmgewehr449 Look up the definition of "projecting," so that you can use it correctly next time. Don't let your vocabulary exceed your ability; it certainly exceeded your reading comprehension. We can all be thankful for "voice to text" technology, otherwise we would still be waiting on you to stumble through spelling your own Teutonic screen name.
In the time that it took for you to write your ill-informed and poorly written post, you could have looked up the word and spared yourself that embarrassment.
It is unfortunate that wisdom did not accompany aging in your case. Wisdom is intended to be nature's compensation for thinning hair and arthritic joints. Growing old without growing wise is the very definition of "pathetic."
@@sturmgewehr449 Perhaps you and your cause celebre can get a group rate on a remedial adult literacy program.
Using 723s and 653s in the IDF (AF rear unit), it's interesting that Larry mentioned that the variation between the cutout barrels and the pencil barrels seemed rather random. I've noticed it too, but always attributed it to the IDF's armourers doing mix-n'-match between parts. Apparently that's not as common as I thought and it was Colt the whole time!
Moreover, All of our lowers are marked as A1, but only some are marked as US govt.
Some also have M4-style stocks and wider handguards, and some have CAR-15-style stocks 2/4-position, and thinner guards.
We also use magazine clamps like Larry shows, but plastic 😁
Wow, I didn’t know Larry Vickers was a delta operator. Much respect ✊🏼 this is an awesome collaboration Ian, hope to see more content from you guys
It's great to see the combination of larger history combined with the thoughts of people who were actually living it every day. Thanks Ian and Larry.
I love collabs between my favorite TH-camrs!!! So much knowledge in these two. Keep up the great videos!
It’s amazing the in-depth knowledge Larry and Ian have and share.
I have a bunch of pics with my DCU shirt tucked in in Iraq in ‘03 and they always get questions. Long before the dump pouch we shoved empty mags down our blouse!
Keep preaching...Early years in Iraq where no joke...
SAS and pretty much all the spec ops guys did that.
I knew I wasn't the only one who did that.
Were they hot??
Being a 90s baby of Ft. Benning, we all wanted to carry this rifle. The M16 we qualified with was shit. The rifle and my uncle (a MAC V SOG CCN Vet) were my main reasons I went the direction I did. By the time I got to were I wanted to be we were given the SOPMOD Block one or the Mk18s (which I still love) and these were gone but trips to the armorer will always come with anything the Army gives you.
Great vid. And, ah the memories.
P.S.
I wouldn't trade my old M2 (aimpoint) for anything.
Great stuff! Mr. Vickers, I used an Aimpoint 2000 on my 45-70 Marlin for quite a few years and really liked it!
It is what you said and then some!
PS, I think that QXL is/was made by Ikelight. I also dove and used one of them too
Larry was highly respected by all SOF members, good to see him still in the fight!