@@jmoney7289 I may be a lowly civilian, but even I am compelled to salute the man. I saluted when his character, Sarge in Toy Story 3 departed Andy's house.
No because it works, and works better than anything. Nothing has made it worthwhile to replace the M16 series of rifles. Speaks volumes about the genus of Eugene stoner.
I thought he said "cabled," as that's a more modern (1920's-1970's) way of saying sending an electronic message. The distinction, however inaccurate even in the '20's the new way to send telegraphs was via radio.
The Air Force was still issuing some of the early 601 rifles when I was an USAF Security Policeman. I was issued one for a while. The green stock had been replaced by a black one but it was otherwise exactly the same down to the Armalite AR-15 marking on the side. This was back in the early 1980's.
While in the Marines we did a deployment to Osan in 96' where some of us volunteered as aggressors for an airbase defense school. They had us use their M-16s. It was quite a treat to see those chromed bolts and a pleasure to shoot (blanks and BFAs however). Thanks Air Force.
@@EstorilEm Unfortunately we didn't have enough time with them to find out. But they were quite pretty and easy to clean. Had one jam, failure to chamber; about an 1/4" out of battery. I instinctively went for the forward assist but of course there was none, so I used my thumb to fully chamber it and continued firing.
@@beardoggin8963 That's an oversimplification of the entire issue. Outside of a rifle range, that forward assist comes in real handy dealing with targets that shoot back.
John Simpson how does it come in handy? That is what the little scalloped put portion on the bolt is for. You press forward without serious pressure to get it into battery and if it doesnt go you remediate it. And that quote is a close approximation of what Clint Smith said. But since you are the expert what Branch are you in and how many notches do you have?
@@FIREBRAND38 It doesn't come in handy at all when you've just made a problem even worse than it was beforehand. Having a bolt that's just barely out of battery due to cheap ammo or whatever you just press on the cut-out on the side of the bolt, it then chambers and everything's fine. But if you need the extra leverage of the forward assist because the scallop cut didn't work then you're only asking for trouble.
My dad was a kid in the '50s and early '60s, and he said when pics of the AR first started coming out, he thought it looked like a "ray gun" from a sci-fi movie. Lol.
I'm currently writing my PhD on Curtis LeMay and very much appreciate this video. If Ian is reading this: I've noted your level of care, respect, and precision over the years and just want to register my thanks for your work. Cheers, Will McFadden University of Toronto, History
Don't forget his nickname: "Bombs Away" LeMay. 🙂 In the movie 'Strategic Air Command' (1955) with Jimmy Stewart, Frank Lovejoy's character Gen. Ennis C. Hawkes was based on General LeMay when he was head of SAC.
My grandfather put the original computer system in the Pentagon thanks to General LeMay. He told me that when the "Wiz Kids" ( group of 11 men who were tasked with developing the computer for military applications) that they presented their ideas to the Army and Navy and were basically laughed out of their presentation. My grandfather then told me how they took their system to General LeMay who suggested they might be able to develop it for personnel logistics and the quarter masters and if it worked he would computerize the USAF which he did and was hailed as a genius as a result. After WWII a computer system that once filled the entire basement of the Pentagon now fits in a laptop. I was very fortunate to have met General LeMay as a young boy back in the 60s taking the bus to the Pentagon during summer break to have lunch with my grandmother and grandfather and mom who all worked at the Pentagon.
While in Vietnam, as a dog handler in the Air Force, I carried the CAR-15. It had a shortened barrel, collapsible stock and a rate of fire increase to 900 rpm. We used the 20 round mags, but never put more than 18 rounds to keep from wearing out the mag spring. We rigged makeshift slings so that we could carry it across our torso. No forward assist. Taught how to clear stoppages. The first time I saw a forward assist, I thought it to be pretty dumb. Circa 1967-68. Thanks for the history lesson, Ian. Merry Christmas.
Just out of curiosity, do you remember the story of the canine whose Handler got hit he released him and he killed something like over 20 Vietnamese? The dog was hit multiple times and they operated on him on a flight back to Manila. The dog retired as an officer!
Army taught me in '68 how to use the army version with the assist. By the time I finally retired 29 years later I had never used the forward assist except in training on the range. I wasn't smart enough to think about it, but if I had a problem getting a round in I always wanted to get it out first.
@@Gronicle1 even with bolt action rifles, we were taught, if a round fails to feed, eject and try a fresh round. If it failed to feed that round, strip and fix. We were never told to beat the bolt handle, only something else!
Historical trivia: Curtis LeMay ran with George Wallace in 1968 as a Vice-Presidential candidate, as independents, against Hubert Humphrey-Democrat & Richard Nixon-Republican. With the extreme dissent & frustration of Viet Nam war at time, Wallace-LeMay siphoned off enough of the traditional Democrat Southern vote, allowing Nixon to be elected. In '68, at least, Nixon did NOT win South, as often erroneously stated as his 'Southern strategy'.
General LeMay wrote the Core Values of the US Air Force so anyone who served has a great understanding of his work ethic and standards. On top of that he made the Stratgeic Air Command what it was a highly professional and skilled force from air crews to security police and that spirit of professionalism and dedication to discipline still lives on in the USAF today. Or it did when I was in anyway.
Having been born in 1980, this was all before my time, as with most, I was told one thing in schools, only to later find out the facts of situation were much different, with example of the so called 'Southern strategy' a case in point. I thank you for further enlightenment on LeMay, who is not well treated by current narrative based academic historians. Hopefully, one day, more neutral based history will be taught, that will more evenly and fairly deal with historical figures like LeMay.
Also LeMay was not ever concerned about his image when he was an active general or when he retired so he never challenged anything negative in the press about him because he literally didn't care. There's a more behind his reasoning for running with Wallace and it had nothing at all to do with predjuce. He never had any issues with black members of the USAF he only cared that people under his command were professional it didn't matter to him beyond that. You cannot expect neutral historic information this is something you have to seek for yourself by reading more than one source of information and knowing what is bais(one way or the other) and what is actually fact. For example in basic training we of course were told only of LeMays good traits and none of his post military life was even mentioned at all. That being said the professionalism that he helped I still in the USAF is very clear to anyone who served pretty much from 1947 to today.
1) Your Curtis LeMay impression was spot on. 2) The lower receiver of my mixmaster beat to hell weapon in Army BCT was marked "XM16E1", which baffled me. I now know it was a priceless collector's piece!
So the British went with Green furniture as well for their small arm of the 1980s. Triangle format as well. I wonder why that was so popular with people.
I don't know which member of your team does it but, I want to thank you for putting Subtitles on your videos, I've been getting steadily more deaf over the years but your videos having subtitles is enabling me to passively continue enjoying something I love - Firearms, so thank you, Forgotten Weapons.
I remember back in the 70s and 80s all the haters saying the AR15 was fragile and unreliable and would never last... Well I reckon most of them are dead now and the AR15/M16/M4 is still in service.
The Army's good old boy's club at the Ordnance Corps is what caused all the issues. Automatic rifles have to work in harmony with the ammo propellant they are based around to be reliable. They have never offered a good reason for insisting on changing the ammo against Stoner's advice and they failed to order enough cleaning kits or the appropriate training to compensate initially, ensuring the M16's big debut as the primary weapon of the military was a disaster. The ball powder they switched to, provided by of course one of the companies in their little club that was prone to cozy exclusive contracts, caused the gun to fire too fast and it burned longer and was dirtier, causing big issues in the gas system. Newer ammo is clean again, but it's not the same as the original. I wonder how well the modern rifles would fire with the original ammo even now.
@@010203109 I fired a bunch of Vietnam era surplus 5.56 through my Daniel Defense DDM4v7, it works but you have to tweak the gas system to get it to run. It's obvious why the old A1's had a problem with it tbh.
@@010203109 "Causing big issues", is probably the understatement of the century. It's the reason behind countless names on the wall. Soldiers were blamed for their perceived lack of or poor maintenance. So the propellant & chamber degradation issues, & the Militaries hierarchy, allowing that to continue at the time, has left a lot of people with soldiers blood on their hands. But, like many other issues of indirect effect for those in power, it's been brushed over, & no accountability has been forthcoming from all those years ago. Ironically, I did not understand what the real problems wereat the time, however, I didn't trust the M16, & in the Australian Army, I was offered the choice between it & the L1A1. Fortunately, I chose the latter.
@@010203109 It'd be annoying enough if they were stubborn about the ammo in regular times but it's even more infuriating that people died because of their hard-headedness.
You're so right..a watermelon exploding always makes a man smile when hit with a round sent down range!! Ian.2000+ videos is not enough:) but I'm working on em..I love every one so far thank you for you're time and channel.
I remember when I first stumbled upon this channel I was only interested in looking at the neat guns and didn't care much about anything else. This is the video that completely changed me from just wanting to gawk at the weapons to instead being much more interested in how they came about. Coming back a year later only reinforces that notion. Plus, Ian is a surprisingly good story teller of history. I just wanna say excellent work, man. You deserve these 2 million subs.
I clearly remember the day we got the M-16. Up until that day we were carrying the M-14. This was on the DMZ in S Korea. They provided about 1-hour training and away we went. The rifle (M-16) was so light compared to our customary M-14s that full auto really took some range time to master. The tendency with the 16 on full auto was for the bbl to go to the right (I am a left-handed shooter) or the left (for righties.) And, at first, we did not have a clear understanding of the new maintenance requirements of the new rifle. After a couple months humpin' the 16 around and send several thousand rounds downrange, I began to like it, a lot. In fact, I now have 3 of them (AR-15 style) that I built to resemble the 16 as close as possible. (No - no full auto or 3 round burst. Semi-auto or safe only.) Still a fine firearm. Great for precision target shooting, 3 gun competition and home defense.
Its just always been my thinking that any military that served in combat for this country should have the option to bring back and keep the rifle and or sidearm they used in combat. Trophies from the enemy too of course.
We had 50 M16’s in our armory in Germany when I was there ’88-‘92 (major USAFE base in Rheinland Pfalz), they were a mix of 601’s, 602’s, and 604’s (no forward assists). Was in a Priority A restricted area, guarded by USAF security police 24/7, so I never had the chance to take photos (wish I had recorded serial numbers, but they were in the thousands range). No green painted stocks on the 601’s (we had about half a dozen), some were painted flat black over the fiberglass. No waffle mags, we had 6000 rounds of ammo in 30 round magazines, 1 in 5 tracer (tracers removed by 1990, if I recall- the 461 Ammo troops were not happy). The mags were Colt, or contractor manufacture. No bayonets. The 601’s all had the early chrome bolts and machined firing pin retaining pins; the 602’s and 604’s were assembled as depicted on the “Retro Black Rifle” website. I do recall seeing a few Edgewater buffers, and large firing pins; I don’t recall if the 601’s still had the early three prong flash hider, but some did have the later three prong (none had birdcage flash hiders). We did not have any GAU-5’s, although the SP area supervisors usually carried them around the bomb dump. We had five on order, but they never came in (Gulf War Part One put an end to that). After opening up our shop in the bomb dump, we opened the armory (walk in vault) and had a few weapons handy for inter-area moves (sometimes weapons were on hand or issued for increased security situations). They were issued out during emergency destruction exercises, etc., or when required for unit qualification. I never got to shoot the M16 in basic (1980), since it was “too hot” (that’s the AF for ya, plus it was .22LR). We used M12 and M870 shotguns in SAC for close-in security, loaded with 00 buck. I don’t recall any failures to feed or eject during any range qualifications with all our rifles; had a hot brass land down my BDU shirt from a nearby shooter, resulting in a nice cartridge case shaped burn on my neck. Finally, although we were qualified “unit armorers”, CATM did not allow us to perform any maintenance other than very basic field stripping and monthly cleaning (minor rust in the bore was a concern; we used LSA). I once had to sign in a CATM troop and escort him into the bomb dump to replace a chipped handguard (one minute job which took 45 minutes since he insisted on doing the task, with my help of course). Many in our shop were “gun nuts”, and of course qualified expert on the M16. It was a blast handling the early 601’s marked “Colt/Armalite”.
You know, I don't watch many gun enthusiasts on TH-cam, but your content is just so damn fascinating and informative, you really come across as a major authority in your field of interest, good stuff
Really fine break down of the history on this very important rifle. I'm anticipating your discussions on the early issues with fielding of the rifle in Vietnam. As an aside, my father was in Vietnam in 1967 as an Infantry Company Commander, and then later in 1972 as an ARVN advisor. Apparently troops fell into two camps, the M14 camp and the M16 camp. These were firmly established religious divides with claims of heresy tossed back and forth at regular intervals. Dad was firmly in the M16 parish. He loved the rifle although he did not like the chrome bolts which he claimed were somewhat finicky. Apparently after being fired sufficiently long enough the bolt would tend to work only in one rifle, so swapping them around was problematic (I don't know how true that would have been). He considered the rifle to be far superior to the M14 and the AK-47. His ARVN units had their M2 Carbines replaced with the M16's while he was there and loved the additional accuracy and range, although he also said the rifle was still too big for most of them.
Keep up the good work Ian! You’ve given so much interesting history and content. So coming from a uk citizens who loves historical firearms but can’t own any your channel is amazing
I was part of the SAWS (Small Arms Weapons System) test group at Ft Jackson SC in 1965., in the "Colt" Platoon. We had XM16E1's, Stoner 63's, a modified M14 and an issue M14 as the control. I qualified on the Stoner light machine gun before I ever held an M60. Gene Stoner was with us frequently. The Army didn't like the Stoner lmg because it shot like a lazer and had no "beaten" zone.
what is a "beaten" zone? also why is it needed, or rather preferred for an lmg to have one, and not be a lazer. i get that an lmg is not like in video games, and isnt primarily to hit, but to cover fire, but why is it worse when its a laser?
@@baelint3061 The "beaten zone" is where the bullets from the machine gun are hitting. When you shoot at something with a machine gun, you want a spread of hits. The Stoner 63 looked like a laser beam at night firing tracers. It had twice the rate of fire as an M60 and virtually no spread. If your target is people coming at you, you want spread. The Ft Jackson machine gun ranger people got mad at us because we cut down and set afire their target houses.
@@baelint3061 Note that a "beaten zone" is NOT the cone of fire created by an inherently imprecise firearm. In machine gunnery, it's the distance (or elipse shaped zone when viewed from above) in range at a target area where bullets fired at an enemy's head will still be hits to the body or legs as the bullet drops. It's a property of the system's trajectory and sighting system. Cartridges and rifles with a more arcing trajectory will have a larger beaten zone. Sights that are precisely zeroed for bullet drop at a certain range will require the gunner to consciously "hold over" for closer targets.
I carried an M16 and an FN FAL in the Australian army. Much preferred the M16. I could head-shoot at 300m with iron sights. Lighter, handier and more practically accurate. Very reliable. No need for an adjustable gas regulator. Eugene Stoner was a genius.
"Fairchild was struggling financially" >Fairchild makes the A-10 years later and makes hundreds of the jets Crazy to think that without the AR-15, the A-10 might not have existed
Imagine if they stuck with the green furniture. The anti gun politicians would be talking about the "scary green assault rifles" instead of the "scary black" ones.
"Double barrel magazine assault clips". I think that's an actual quote. But no, someone would have made black eventually because it's cheaper and uniform
@@VndNvwYvvSvv They could have made the entire rifle, including the metal, green for uniformity. Green paint isn't much more expensive than black paint.
Wow. The history is super interesting. Funny how some world changing ideas or inventions find part of their origin story at a birthday party or involve exploding watermelons. Just makes me appreciate the AR all the more.
When I retired in 1995 the USAF was still using the M16, the Security Police were issued the M16A2. My duty weapon the M9 pistol and two magazines. Anytime Ian goes to MAG I'm always looking at those AK's and other Rifles on the wall. Probably some stories there as well. Fairchild also made something else I worked on the A10 "Warthog" now that has a gun. I was an Aircraft Mechanic for twelve years and Combat Arms Training and Maintenance instructor after that. traded my hammer and screwdriver for a M9 and lesson plans.
I first got my hands on the M16 when I was 9 yrs old when I visited an Army recruiting exhibit at the Heart of Illinois Fair in 1965. They had one you could try set up with a light target like a shooting gallery game.
Great video, as always. Forward Assist comment: As an 11B, between Afghan, Iraq, and everything inbetween, I have NEVER used the forward assist except for ONE occasion, which was actually caught on camera during my "AR15 Field Reliability" Video. The one time in my personal and professional life that I ever actually attempted to use the forward assist, as intended, and it didn't clear the malfunction. Had to rip the live round and try again, and it worked, and I agree with Eugene Stoner, that forcing a jammed round into battery is absolutely the wrong answer in terms of trying to make things work. I have no issues seeing AR15s without FAs, but the one thing I would never go without is the ejection port cover. Anyways, great video, this was just amazing. Merry Christmas Gun Jesus, you know we all love you. -Mr. 2nd
As a radio pog that never deployed but served with 75th, 82nd, and 20th SFG. You probably didn't shoot enough, or were just blessed with a decent rifle "luck."
@@replynotificationsdisabled Nah, you can easily clear jams without that FA. No matter what the issue. They're only good for hunting or stealth missions if you had to quietly rack one in.
I went to Camp Perry in 1967 as a junior member of the Connecticut State Rifle Team. At the Small Arms Firing School, we were given a short introduction to the new M-16. We were used to the M-1, and had just been issued the first National Match M-14's. The M-16's on the line were just like the 601 shown. Weighed about 6 pounds, and painted green. Badly worn training rifles, cigarette burns on the stock, and we were told they were Air Force. I got into a tight sling, and got yelled at by the line sergeant, who told me that I could bend it that way. We were only given 10 rounds at 100 yards for familiarization- shoot 5, reload, and 5 more. All I remember is "BOING!", BOING" against my ear muffs. The shooter next to me had flipped his safety off, and it spun around to full auto. Cyclic rate was so fast that he only got 2 trigger pulls. He didn't notice he had popped off 2, then 3. I didn't like them, and went back to my M-14 and 2 silver medals.
Enjoyed it!?! I loved it!!! My dad was in the army and was in Vietnam 🇻🇳 in 1968 to 1971. He just passed away Friday and he gave me his AR-15. I want to make it look like the M-16 A1. Thank you Dan PS I like the Green Future. Lol
Forward Assist is very useful for chambering a round when snooping around in bad guy country or hunting. Allows you to SILENTLY chamber a round. Also when coming out of the water with a M16, you pull the bolt slightly to the rear to break the seal to allow water to drain out the barrel. Push the FA to seat the bolt. Do this well wearing wet/dry suit gloves. Been using the AR since my first issued XM16E1 to the new URGI.
The M-16 history is so rich and full of twists and turns that is great to see Ian telling it. I'm sure it's gonna be a playlist here in the channel all about this gun like the SA-80's playlist. FW is becoming better and better everytime for those we love History and its tools and facts. Merry Xmas from Argentina.
Awesome storytelling ... thanks. McNamara use to work for LeMay in WWII ... interesting how that relationship intertwines and is critical to the story of this weapon.
I served in the Air Force from 1975 to 1989. By that time almost all of the Air Force rifles were mixmasters of one sort or another. I did once see a rifle with a triangular charging handle and green furniture but it wasn't issued to me and I don't recall if it had the duckbill flash hider. In 1975 many if not most of the AF rifles had the A1 style three-prong flash hider but it was pretty much gone by 1980 in favor of the birdcage. Some bolt carriers were serrated and some weren't but none of the rifles had a forward assist or a brass deflector. I never found its absence to be a detriment in any way. Today's M16s and M4s are much heavier and less handy than the original M16/M16A1 and to be honest, I kind of miss that.
Thank you for explaining this important "forgotten" link in the historical chain between the well-covered WW2 era (Garand) to M14, AR10, AR15 and today.
One of the best rifles ever invented. Anyone who spends even a small amount of time with one can appreciate how revolutionary it was and how well designed it was. It's just an overall good rifle and is really fun to shoot.
I had read about the AR-15's development years ago and also watched the History Channel's: "Tales of The Gun" on it. You hit on everything they said. Especially about how the salesman went around to other countries to sell the ARs. The story of Curtis LeMay is very fascinating and no one could probably do something like that today? Your videos are always great and so well researched, along with the "artifacts" to show development in the weapons. Really well done.
In my experience with 6yrs in the army, one deployment, and I own an AR-15. I have shot thousands or tens of thousands of rounds out of this weapon and have NEVER used the forward assist.
Thank you for your service. From what I can find the original AR 15 ammo that Stoner designed his baby to work in harmony with used IMR 4475 propellant. The Army Ordnance Corps and Army in general have never, at least on public record, given any good reason for switching to dirtier, longer burning ball propellant. This allowed still-burning propellant to enter the gas system as the rifles also cycled something like 20 percent faster than they were designed to. This combo turned a reliable favorite among South Vietnamese troops and our Special Forces into a nightmare. I assume the forward assist could have helped with some of the subsequent jams, but obviously not enough to prevent the bloody consequences of the poorly justified ammo change, or many dead US soldiers would not have been found next to disassembled M16s in the jungles of Vietnam.
@@010203109 Man that's so sad. Being caught lacking while trying to field strip your weapon because it jammed up so much, and unfortunately that was the moment you get attacked. No wonder a lot of Vietnam vets I talked to preferred the M14 or even the BAR
@@magentuspriest My Grampa had an M14 in Vietnam. He said it was fine he just wished he had bullets. His outfit didn't have any bullets on hand after a CO got himself shot at for not responding to a guard one night.
"The people running the company at Fairchild are really not convinced that anything's coming here, and they wanna cut strings and just be done with this rifle thing." I cannot imagine getting a bigger egg in the face than this.
Fairchild made serious money off of royalties for the rifles and spares until the original patents expired. It is rarely mentioned that Boutelle and two of his successors were fired before Stanley Fairchild came out of retirement to stop the financial bleeding. Armalite and several other under-performing divisions were kicked to the curb soon afterwards.
As I recall the safety selector positions were changed as during an early test soldiers would carry the rifles through an obstacle course. At least one section required low crawling and it was found that dragging the rifle across the ground would tend to pull the selector off of safe. It was believed that if something could move that lever it could also get in the trigger guard and fire the gun while crawling. In the updated configuration pulling the rifle across the ground would tend to push the lever on to safe, not off of safe.
I was in the AF Security Police from 88-94. We carried the M16. Not the A1 or A2, the original (black furniture). Ones bought be LeMay. No forward assist. While I was in, we did "upgrade" the hand guards from the bakelite triangular hand guards to more modern looking plastic hand guards. Many had also been upgraded with bird cage flash hiders, but I was issued rifles that had the original 3 prong flash hider. It was weird to be off duty, watching a Vietnam documentary on the Tet offensive, and see soldiers fighting with more advanced M16s than we were carrying at the time. BTW, while stationed at Minot, I found a tracer 30 Carbine round at a missile silo. It was bent and dented, having been run over who knows how many times.
Did you do your entire enlistment at Minot? My last duty assignment was with the 741st MS at Minot, and my last rifle had A2 hand guards and butt stock. I took great pleasure during post checks when asked how long the M-16 was. I responded by saying that my rifle was 39 5/8 inches long. When corrected I'd take my rifle out of the rack as well as another rifle with either the original butt stock or the A1. I'd place both rifles butt on the floor side by side to demonstrate the difference.
@@earlwyss520 No. My first base was Incirlik 88-89, then I went to Hahn from 90-92, then I went to Minot 92-94 working missile silos. I worked convoys for about 8 months, got my medical for helicopter fire teams, then almost right away got moved over to camper alert teams. CAT duty sucked, and was a big part of why I got out when my enlistment was up.
@@randallkelley3600 My assignments were Clark AB 88-90, Eaker AFB Ark 90-91, Balikesir Turkey 91-92, RAF Upper Heyford 92-94 (I was one of the last 3 WSA entry controllers), Incirik 94-95 (where I was qualified with and issued an A2), and finally Minot 95-97. I considered the missile field an involuntary cross train, as it was run completely bass ackwards from flight line duty.
@@earlwyss520 Convoys weren't too bad. CATs were terrible. For one thing we had tiny flights, 15-20 people, so once the week started, you hardly saw any of them. Flight cohesion suffered from this. The crazy hours were another problem. 6am one day, 6pm the next. 8 hours one day, 16 the next. Getting 3 hours of sleep and your phone ringing for a CAT deployment. On call 24 hours a day Mon-Fri. I couldn't even go to the chow hall without letting dispatch know where I was (carried a pager). Inevitably when we were sent on a CAT we could get the site security to reset. But once we were out in the field they left us there. So we would bounce from one silo to another getting reset after reset. Eventually we would be tired enough that we wouldn't try to reset the alarms so they would leave us alone and we could get some rest. It didn't help that the cops were very undermanned at the time compared to the missile maintenance guys. I had my "mandatory" rest time shortened on several occasions to meet mission requirements.
@@earlwyss520 I was at Hahn as it was shutting down. We had 3 squadrons of F-16s. One was sent to the Gulf War, the other two stayed behind and were painted in Illinois or Indiana guard colors and flown home. After the war, the other squadron met the same fate. So we had assets in the WSA and nothing to put them on. We even inherited some Army 155mm howitzer assets. No planes. Then one night CSC comes on with an in flight emergency. We asked if it was an exercise...nope. We had no idea how we cold be having an in flight with no planes. Turned out it was a British Buccaneer with a fuel leak. He landed fine, but the plane was on the flight line for 3 weeks. Hahn closed in 93. A couple of my friends were there literally padlocking things up for the last time. Lufthansa operates out of Hahn now and some of my friends have gone back, flying in on a commercial flight. More weird, you can frequently see Aeroflot commercial planes there. Now that is a big change from my time there! Were you at Clark during the volcano? What did you think of your Turkey assignment?
i finally got my hands on a 1976 colt sp1, i ordered the original stock furniture and had it cerakoted od green. its an awesome rifle, light and super twangy, little more recoil with the less weight.
@@jayuu8380 Military acronyms are not English at all. TDY, temporary duty. AFB, Air Force Base. No SNAFU, you just don't understand the language. You have now been given a short lesson in military language. Very short.
Former USAF (70's - 80's); Mattel: No forward assist, w/Cotter pin (use bullet tip to extract), retained swivel pin, large T-handle, 3-prong muzzle (rumors: "chain-link breaker"... never tried ;-) , cleaning kit in Butt stock (unusual?), flip-down trigger guard (use bullet tip to release)... thanks for brief trip down memory lane...
I would like to propose a moment of respectful silence in honor of those brave watermelons who sacrificed themselves so that Curtis LeMay might say "eah, that's pretty cool" and, as a result, we have another wonderful "Forgotten Weapons" video to enjoy.
My grandfather went to Vietnam in 68 in the Korean 9th Division. He went over during the Tet Offensive with an M1, and the day he got his M16 in late 68/early 69, he said it was the best thing ever. He loved the M1, but his M16 became the thing he always talked about.
I have in my possession a Webley and son Belgian Constable revolver in .320 if you would be interested in doing a review of it as it is fairly uncommon revolver
"All of these guys loved the AR-15... At one point in the Philippines, he gives away all his 7.62, all 8,000 rounds of it." This is an interesting intersection with Philippine history. In the Philippines, "ArmaLite" is the household name for either all assault rifles or really any modern long rifle. It's been that way for so long (maybe even less now, but certainly a couple of decades ago it was) that I've wondered why. I assumed that, like Israel, it was that the Philippines received surplus M16 rifles at some point, but now it's looking like it was even before that, that ArmaLite was looking at Asian markets.
when i was in the Air Force, i went on an exercise before separating in 1993 and drew an Colt's Armalite AR-15 (same look as the one they pan over with the green furniture) in an SP 601 pattern with the serial number right around 12,100. the open flash hider is known as a duck bill flash hider, replaced with the three prong flash hider with a taper from the rear to the front. the duckbill was notorious for breaking when GIs tried to used them to twist and break packing bands on c-rat cases. the delta ring is straight but was changed to a tapered ring because it was easier to grasp. the triangle charging handle was changed to the T shape because the triangle required two fingers to unlock it, having tabs on both sides. the take down pins werent captive with the spring loaded pins like on the new style
Interesting back in 1961 I was stationed at Marine barracks Naval Ordnance testing center we had a class on the M15 not sure if they called that , the engineer was very enthusiastic and said this will be the main battle weapon of the future it looked like a toy compared to our M! Grands . I do recall something being said about special alloys or coatings that the main parts treated and I think no oil was needed and made for any weather conditions. The base engineers and a few sergeants fired the new rifle we never heard of any real testing since we were an MP unit.
Ian, what a great Xmas present (and I didn't get you anything). However, it wasn't so much the 55 grain bullets themselves but rather the old 1:14 twist that made the bullets marginally stable in air and caused them to yaw immediately after entering melons (or people). The Army had a set requirement for Arctic acceptance tests which eventually led to a 1:12 twist to stabilize the bullets in very cold air.
@@idontwanttoputmyname403 Hmm yourself. OK. Using Miller's Stability formula and all things being equal an M193 Ball round fired at 3250 fps from a 1:12 twist has a Stability factor of 1.26 where 1.4 is the minimum value for stabilization. Looking at the original 1:14 twist and everything being equal we get a Stability Factor of 0.93. To provide context, a value of 1.0 to 1.4 is marginally stable. The 1:14 twist is therefore classified as Unstable. The only change made to the mix was the barrel twist went from 1:14 to 1:12. I mean, the barrel length didn't change between the AR-15 and M16A1 and it was still a 55 grain bullet leaving at 3250 feet per second. The science behind it may be found in Applied Ballistics For Long-Range Shooting by Bryan Litz.
@@FIREBRAND38 I was saying "hmm" because I had nothing else to offer, not to be condescending. However, I appreciate you elaborating further and telling me where I can find the information.
My father used to be in Royal Thai Army back in 1948-1970. I still have a manual of AR-10 date back in 1962 before the adaptation if Colt M-16 A1 by the Army in 1966. When I was unemployed in 1983 I was send to Colt Industry in Hartford, CT where it manufactured M-16-A1 at Colt Defense and the Colt Defense was the first fully automate assembly of M-16 and SP1 instead of using conveys.
Remember that time he approved the creation of a US program to draft people who were well below minimum standard for recruitment, and how said program was abject failure?
Mr. Stoner's opinion of the forward assist is mine as well. EVERY time someone has used it around me, I have had to break down a gun to pull the jammed cartridge out of the barrel. In one case it was a 5.45 in a 5.56 chamber that was so wedged in there by guys hammering on the forward assist I had to pull the barrel [yep, including the gas tube so I could spin the barrel nut] and pry it out by the rim with a screw driver...carefully...as it was still live
Sitting with my new baby girl in the hospital on Christmas Day Learning me some things about the Colt 601
Congratulations sir, the best gift a person could want. Merry Christmas to you and your wife and new family member.👍🏼🍻
Congratulations my friend, happy holidays and Merry Christmas to you
Congrats
An amazing gift to the world !! congratulations my man
Jason Hart that’s the way to do it lol. Congrats man
Pretty amazing how the US military has been using AR-15 pattern rifles for 57 years, all because Curtis LeMay shot a watermelon.
Sounds like an episode of mail call or lock and load with Gunnery Sergeant Ermey.
Scott Mew I love R Lee ermey
@@jmoney7289 I may be a lowly civilian, but even I am compelled to salute the man. I saluted when his character, Sarge in Toy Story 3 departed Andy's house.
WERLLLL THATS PRETTY COOORL
No because it works, and works better than anything. Nothing has made it worthwhile to replace the M16 series of rifles. Speaks volumes about the genus of Eugene stoner.
"It's 1958 so there's no email"
"So he emails Colt..."
Maybe "He Mails"?...
I thought he said "cabled," as that's a more modern (1920's-1970's) way of saying sending an electronic message. The distinction, however inaccurate even in the '20's the new way to send telegraphs was via radio.
4:53
Well, he did say DARPA was involved in the promotion of the AR.
I was like "Did he really just say that?"
The Air Force was still issuing some of the early 601 rifles when I was an USAF Security Policeman. I was issued one for a while. The green stock had been replaced by a black one but it was otherwise exactly the same down to the Armalite AR-15 marking on the side. This was back in the early 1980's.
While in the Marines we did a deployment to Osan in 96' where some of us volunteered as aggressors for an airbase defense school. They had us use their M-16s. It was quite a treat to see those chromed bolts and a pleasure to shoot (blanks and BFAs however). Thanks Air Force.
I was issued a 5 digit serial number back in the day in the USAF. Best M16 I ever shot, not one miss fire with live or blank ammo.
AR-15 become as M16
@@smokysams wow that’s crazy, was the chromed BCG noticeably better then? Always wondered..
@@EstorilEm Unfortunately we didn't have enough time with them to find out. But they were quite pretty and easy to clean. Had one jam, failure to chamber; about an 1/4" out of battery. I instinctively went for the forward assist but of course there was none, so I used my thumb to fully chamber it and continued firing.
"I am against bolt closure devices for this gun."
Army: "We forward insist."
Marcus woooosh
Christopher Whitaker “if a round doesnt want to go into the chamber why in the hell do want to beat it in there?”
@@beardoggin8963 That's an oversimplification of the entire issue. Outside of a rifle range, that forward assist comes in real handy dealing with targets that shoot back.
John Simpson how does it come in handy? That is what the little scalloped put portion on the bolt is for. You press forward without serious pressure to get it into battery and if it doesnt go you remediate it. And that quote is a close approximation of what Clint Smith said. But since you are the expert what Branch are you in and how many notches do you have?
@@FIREBRAND38 It doesn't come in handy at all when you've just made a problem even worse than it was beforehand.
Having a bolt that's just barely out of battery due to cheap ammo or whatever you just press on the cut-out on the side of the bolt, it then chambers and everything's fine. But if you need the extra leverage of the forward assist because the scallop cut didn't work then you're only asking for trouble.
You, a fool: Colt 601.
Me, a man of culture: M six green
Graham Lopez niceee
Borderline dad joke
Intellect 100
Ba dum tssss
Graham Lopez Fool, the real M green 16 is the Colt Canada C7 which is still an M16
It boggles my mind, still, to think the AR platforms earliest iteration was in the late 50s. Truely space age stuff .
Mid-50s for the AR-10 of course.
My dad was a kid in the '50s and early '60s, and he said when pics of the AR first started coming out, he thought it looked like a "ray gun" from a sci-fi movie. Lol.
@@crominion6045 The open-ended flash hider sure adds to that, looking like electrodes...
To a small degree it still is space age stuff ( when built like the originals ).
m.th-cam.com/video/LyXndCxn9K4/w-d-xo.html
@Creeping Death ok grandpa
I'm currently writing my PhD on Curtis LeMay and very much appreciate this video. If Ian is reading this: I've noted your level of care, respect, and precision over the years and just want to register my thanks for your work.
Cheers,
Will McFadden
University of Toronto, History
How'd it go? I hope the virus hasn't messed anything up for you
Yeah is it Doc McFadden?
Hope it worked out for you!
Don't forget his nickname: "Bombs Away" LeMay. 🙂
In the movie 'Strategic Air Command' (1955) with Jimmy Stewart, Frank Lovejoy's character Gen. Ennis C. Hawkes was based on General LeMay when he was head of SAC.
My grandfather put the original computer system in the Pentagon thanks to General LeMay.
He told me that when the "Wiz Kids" ( group of 11 men who were tasked with developing the computer for military applications) that they presented their ideas to the Army and Navy and were basically laughed out of their presentation.
My grandfather then told me how they took their system to General LeMay who suggested they might be able to develop it for personnel logistics and the quarter masters and if it worked he would computerize the USAF which he did and was hailed as a genius as a result.
After WWII a computer system that once filled the entire basement of the Pentagon now fits in a laptop.
I was very fortunate to have met General LeMay as a young boy back in the 60s taking the bus to the Pentagon during summer break to have lunch with my grandmother and grandfather and mom who all worked at the Pentagon.
There are some weird people who EAT watermelons instead of using them for target practice. Bizarre, I know.
I save shooting watermelons for the rotten ones. Grocery stores are happy to have help getting rid of old melons and pumpkins!
Some people don't know that you have to hunt watermelon!
Lol, next thing you’ll tell me is that people eat pork chops and oranges instead of using them to simulate pectorals and lung tissue.
Disgusting!
Eat? Everyone knows you drink watermelons.
While in Vietnam, as a dog handler in the Air Force, I carried the CAR-15. It had a shortened barrel, collapsible stock and a rate of fire increase to 900 rpm. We used the 20 round mags, but never put more than 18 rounds to keep from wearing out the mag spring. We rigged makeshift slings so that we could carry it across our torso. No forward assist. Taught how to clear stoppages. The first time I saw a forward assist, I thought it to be pretty dumb. Circa 1967-68. Thanks for the history lesson, Ian. Merry Christmas.
Thanks for sharing! Always cool to hear from people with first-hand experience in the field
Just out of curiosity, do you remember the story of the canine whose Handler got hit he released him and he killed something like over 20 Vietnamese? The dog was hit multiple times and they operated on him on a flight back to Manila. The dog retired as an officer!
We had CAR-15s when I was a SP at Incirlik, 88-89.
Army taught me in '68 how to use the army version with the assist. By the time I finally retired 29 years later I had never used the forward assist except in training on the range. I wasn't smart enough to think about it, but if I had a problem getting a round in I always wanted to get it out first.
@@Gronicle1 even with bolt action rifles, we were taught, if a round fails to feed, eject and try a fresh round. If it failed to feed that round, strip and fix. We were never told to beat the bolt handle, only something else!
Very interesting and the impression of Curtis LeMay was the best I have ever heard. It was also the only impression of Curtis LeMay I’ve ever heard.
Historical trivia: Curtis LeMay ran with George Wallace in 1968 as a Vice-Presidential candidate, as independents, against Hubert Humphrey-Democrat & Richard Nixon-Republican. With the extreme dissent & frustration of Viet Nam war at time, Wallace-LeMay siphoned off enough of the traditional Democrat Southern vote, allowing Nixon to be elected. In '68, at least, Nixon did NOT win South, as often erroneously stated as his 'Southern strategy'.
General LeMay wrote the Core Values of the US Air Force so anyone who served has a great understanding of his work ethic and standards. On top of that he made the Stratgeic Air Command what it was a highly professional and skilled force from air crews to security police and that spirit of professionalism and dedication to discipline still lives on in the USAF today. Or it did when I was in anyway.
Having been born in 1980, this was all before my time, as with most, I was told one thing in schools, only to later find out the facts of situation were much different, with example of the so called 'Southern strategy' a case in point. I thank you for further enlightenment on LeMay, who is not well treated by current narrative based academic historians. Hopefully, one day, more neutral based history will be taught, that will more evenly and fairly deal with historical figures like LeMay.
@@doraran2138 I was born in 1980 as well I just know about LeMay because I was in the USAF. On top of that I am an avid student of history.
Also LeMay was not ever concerned about his image when he was an active general or when he retired so he never challenged anything negative in the press about him because he literally didn't care. There's a more behind his reasoning for running with Wallace and it had nothing at all to do with predjuce. He never had any issues with black members of the USAF he only cared that people under his command were professional it didn't matter to him beyond that.
You cannot expect neutral historic information this is something you have to seek for yourself by reading more than one source of information and knowing what is bais(one way or the other) and what is actually fact.
For example in basic training we of course were told only of LeMays good traits and none of his post military life was even mentioned at all. That being said the professionalism that he helped I still in the USAF is very clear to anyone who served pretty much from 1947 to today.
1) Your Curtis LeMay impression was spot on.
2) The lower receiver of my mixmaster beat to hell weapon in Army BCT was marked "XM16E1", which baffled me. I now know it was a priceless collector's piece!
I actually really like the original green furniture.
D H my favourite part of Canadian c7/c8 the green furniture
I wonder if anyone out there makes replica furniture like this. A quick google search bore no fruit.
N B Brownells has new production green. But it’s FAR brighter
So the British went with Green furniture as well for their small arm of the 1980s. Triangle format as well. I wonder why that was so popular with people.
I would like a nice wood furniture on it. AKs pull it off, maybe if done right so could the AR
Pretty amazing that the AR-15 started out as a “temporary” gap filler while the military was “waiting for the impending wonder rifle” that never came.
Nothing in the military is as permanent as a temporary solution.
The “wonder rifle” was the FAL…
Maybe the real wonder rifles were the ones we made along the way
@@pantera29palmsit's weird how all the countries that used fals threw them out as soon as they could afford an intermediate caliber assault rifle
@@pantera29palms No, it was the G11
In terms of why I watch your videos:
75% - backstory
25% - weapon itself
Merry Christmas.
But there's no room for the 30% Ian
You forgot the %100 Ian.
hes ahoy without the animation and voice
Thats just sad
I don't know which member of your team does it but, I want to thank you for putting Subtitles on your videos, I've been getting steadily more deaf over the years but your videos having subtitles is enabling me to passively continue enjoying something I love - Firearms, so thank you, Forgotten Weapons.
Ian and Colt M16? Best Christmas gift ever!! Merry Christmas to all!
I remember back in the 70s and 80s all the haters saying the AR15 was fragile and unreliable and would never last... Well I reckon most of them are dead now and the AR15/M16/M4 is still in service.
The Army's good old boy's club at the Ordnance Corps is what caused all the issues. Automatic rifles have to work in harmony with the ammo propellant they are based around to be reliable. They have never offered a good reason for insisting on changing the ammo against Stoner's advice and they failed to order enough cleaning kits or the appropriate training to compensate initially, ensuring the M16's big debut as the primary weapon of the military was a disaster. The ball powder they switched to, provided by of course one of the companies in their little club that was prone to cozy exclusive contracts, caused the gun to fire too fast and it burned longer and was dirtier, causing big issues in the gas system. Newer ammo is clean again, but it's not the same as the original. I wonder how well the modern rifles would fire with the original ammo even now.
@@010203109 I fired a bunch of Vietnam era surplus 5.56 through my Daniel Defense DDM4v7, it works but you have to tweak the gas system to get it to run.
It's obvious why the old A1's had a problem with it tbh.
@@010203109 "Causing big issues", is probably the understatement of the century.
It's the reason behind countless names on the wall.
Soldiers were blamed for their perceived lack of or poor maintenance.
So the propellant & chamber degradation issues, & the Militaries hierarchy, allowing that to continue at the time, has left a lot of people with soldiers blood on their hands.
But, like many other issues of indirect effect for those in power, it's been brushed over, & no accountability has been forthcoming from all those years ago.
Ironically, I did not understand what the real problems wereat the time, however, I didn't trust the M16, & in the Australian Army, I was offered the choice between it & the L1A1.
Fortunately, I chose the latter.
@@010203109 It'd be annoying enough if they were stubborn about the ammo in regular times but it's even more infuriating that people died because of their hard-headedness.
You're so right..a watermelon exploding always makes a man smile when hit with a round sent down range!! Ian.2000+ videos is not enough:) but I'm working on em..I love every one so far thank you for you're time and channel.
smells so good too
I remember when I first stumbled upon this channel I was only interested in looking at the neat guns and didn't care much about anything else.
This is the video that completely changed me from just wanting to gawk at the weapons to instead being much more interested in how they came about. Coming back a year later only reinforces that notion.
Plus, Ian is a surprisingly good story teller of history. I just wanna say excellent work, man. You deserve these 2 million subs.
I love AR's with triangular handguards.
Same. It's like looking at the old 60's models of American mustang cars
Carried one in the AF for years M16
Reminds me of the service rifle from Fallout: New vegas
hot take but i think they are really ugly
I love them. My favorite. The round ones are cool too
I clearly remember the day we got the M-16. Up until that day we were carrying the M-14. This was on the DMZ in S Korea. They provided about 1-hour training and away we went. The rifle (M-16) was so light compared to our customary M-14s that full auto really took some range time to master. The tendency with the 16 on full auto was for the bbl to go to the right (I am a left-handed shooter) or the left (for righties.) And, at first, we did not have a clear understanding of the new maintenance requirements of the new rifle. After a couple months humpin' the 16 around and send several thousand rounds downrange, I began to like it, a lot. In fact, I now have 3 of them (AR-15 style) that I built to resemble the 16 as close as possible. (No - no full auto or 3 round burst. Semi-auto or safe only.) Still a fine firearm. Great for precision target shooting, 3 gun competition and home defense.
Mark Brown I’m surprised it took you a while to get used to the full auto on the M16 cause it’s way more controllable in full auto than an M14.
@@craigscott5661 Maybe OP and his buddies never fired their M14s on full auto?
Its just always been my thinking that any military that served in combat for this country should have the option to bring back and keep the rifle and or sidearm they used in combat. Trophies from the enemy too of course.
@@craigscott5661By Vietnam, most M-14s had their full auto removed. I'm assuming his M-14 was one of those.
the early history and variants of the AR-15 are some of my favorite Forgotten Weapons videos! Thanks and keep up the good work! Merry Christmas!
We had 50 M16’s in our armory in Germany when I was there ’88-‘92 (major USAFE base in Rheinland Pfalz), they were a mix of 601’s, 602’s, and 604’s (no forward assists). Was in a Priority A restricted area, guarded by USAF security police 24/7, so I never had the chance to take photos (wish I had recorded serial numbers, but they were in the thousands range). No green painted stocks on the 601’s (we had about half a dozen), some were painted flat black over the fiberglass. No waffle mags, we had 6000 rounds of ammo in 30 round magazines, 1 in 5 tracer (tracers removed by 1990, if I recall- the 461 Ammo troops were not happy). The mags were Colt, or contractor manufacture. No bayonets. The 601’s all had the early chrome bolts and machined firing pin retaining pins; the 602’s and 604’s were assembled as depicted on the “Retro Black Rifle” website. I do recall seeing a few Edgewater buffers, and large firing pins; I don’t recall if the 601’s still had the early three prong flash hider, but some did have the later three prong (none had birdcage flash hiders). We did not have any GAU-5’s, although the SP area supervisors usually carried them around the bomb dump. We had five on order, but they never came in (Gulf War Part One put an end to that).
After opening up our shop in the bomb dump, we opened the armory (walk in vault) and had a few weapons handy for inter-area moves (sometimes weapons were on hand or issued for increased security situations). They were issued out during emergency destruction exercises, etc., or when required for unit qualification. I never got to shoot the M16 in basic (1980), since it was “too hot” (that’s the AF for ya, plus it was .22LR). We used M12 and M870 shotguns in SAC for close-in security, loaded with 00 buck.
I don’t recall any failures to feed or eject during any range qualifications with all our rifles; had a hot brass land down my BDU shirt from a nearby shooter, resulting in a nice cartridge case shaped burn on my neck.
Finally, although we were qualified “unit armorers”, CATM did not allow us to perform any maintenance other than very basic field stripping and monthly cleaning (minor rust in the bore was a concern; we used LSA). I once had to sign in a CATM troop and escort him into the bomb dump to replace a chipped handguard (one minute job which took 45 minutes since he insisted on doing the task, with my help of course).
Many in our shop were “gun nuts”, and of course qualified expert on the M16. It was a blast handling the early 601’s marked “Colt/Armalite”.
You know, I don't watch many gun enthusiasts on TH-cam, but your content is just so damn fascinating and informative, you really come across as a major authority in your field of interest, good stuff
Really fine break down of the history on this very important rifle. I'm anticipating your discussions on the early issues with fielding of the rifle in Vietnam. As an aside, my father was in Vietnam in 1967 as an Infantry Company Commander, and then later in 1972 as an ARVN advisor. Apparently troops fell into two camps, the M14 camp and the M16 camp. These were firmly established religious divides with claims of heresy tossed back and forth at regular intervals. Dad was firmly in the M16 parish. He loved the rifle although he did not like the chrome bolts which he claimed were somewhat finicky. Apparently after being fired sufficiently long enough the bolt would tend to work only in one rifle, so swapping them around was problematic (I don't know how true that would have been). He considered the rifle to be far superior to the M14 and the AK-47. His ARVN units had their M2 Carbines replaced with the M16's while he was there and loved the additional accuracy and range, although he also said the rifle was still too big for most of them.
Keep up the good work Ian! You’ve given so much interesting history and content. So coming from a uk citizens who loves historical firearms but can’t own any your channel is amazing
I was part of the SAWS (Small Arms Weapons System) test group at Ft Jackson SC in 1965., in the "Colt" Platoon. We had XM16E1's, Stoner 63's, a modified M14 and an issue M14 as the control. I qualified on the Stoner light machine gun before I ever held an M60. Gene Stoner was with us frequently. The Army didn't like the Stoner lmg because it shot like a lazer and had no "beaten" zone.
what is a "beaten" zone? also why is it needed, or rather preferred for an lmg to have one, and not be a lazer. i get that an lmg is not like in video games, and isnt primarily to hit, but to cover fire, but why is it worse when its a laser?
@@baelint3061 The "beaten zone" is where the bullets from the machine gun are hitting. When you shoot at something with a machine gun, you want a spread of hits. The Stoner 63 looked like a laser beam at night firing tracers. It had twice the rate of fire as an M60 and virtually no spread. If your target is people coming at you, you want spread. The Ft Jackson machine gun ranger people got mad at us because we cut down and set afire their target houses.
@@baelint3061 Note that a "beaten zone" is NOT the cone of fire created by an inherently imprecise firearm. In machine gunnery, it's the distance (or elipse shaped zone when viewed from above) in range at a target area where bullets fired at an enemy's head will still be hits to the body or legs as the bullet drops. It's a property of the system's trajectory and sighting system. Cartridges and rifles with a more arcing trajectory will have a larger beaten zone. Sights that are precisely zeroed for bullet drop at a certain range will require the gunner to consciously "hold over" for closer targets.
@@frankcamper7318 "Dammit, Stoner, your gun is too precise." >:(
I’m jealous. I’d give an arm to shake Stoner’s hand, even more get to see him multiple times and test his firearms
Ian's quote of LeMay @ 7:01 is spot on
I carried an M16 and an FN FAL in the Australian army. Much preferred the M16. I could head-shoot at 300m with iron sights. Lighter, handier and more practically accurate. Very reliable. No need for an adjustable gas regulator. Eugene Stoner was a genius.
"Fairchild was struggling financially"
>Fairchild makes the A-10 years later and makes hundreds of the jets
Crazy to think that without the AR-15, the A-10 might not have existed
2 of the biggest icons in Murican armament, making such a notion even more crazy.
Then Fairchild promptly goes under 12 years after that.
wellll the A10 aint good so ehhh i guess
@@kadebass6187 it's good for what it's designed for, it now is mostly good as a light bomber, because we don't have any of those.
@@gonkdroid4prez539 there's other vehicles that can do what it does; bombing isn't something that's unique to it
Imagine if they stuck with the green furniture. The anti gun politicians would be talking about the "scary green assault rifles" instead of the "scary black" ones.
"Double barrel magazine assault clips". I think that's an actual quote.
But no, someone would have made black eventually because it's cheaper and uniform
@@VndNvwYvvSvv th-cam.com/video/qK9RgaSdM1g/w-d-xo.html it does exist lmaoo LAPD finest XD
@@VndNvwYvvSvv They could have made the entire rifle, including the metal, green for uniformity. Green paint isn't much more expensive than black paint.
@@hailexiao2770 wouldn't look as cool with a full green reciever instead of the grey one.
@@hailexiao2770 and avocado was a trendy color back in the sixties. our fridge was green avocado. and the stove.
I like the green furniture
If that had been designed in the 1970s the colors would have been green and yellow!
Like current C7 furniture
So do I.
In the late 1980s I saw actively issued USAF M-16s still equipment with green furniture.
Brown or Black only!
He has touched on parts of this story over the years, but this was a pretty good long form, making the history more linear.
Wow. The history is super interesting. Funny how some world changing ideas or inventions find part of their origin story at a birthday party or involve exploding watermelons. Just makes me appreciate the AR all the more.
It's not what you know, it's who you know.
Now I can't stop imagining Ian dressed as Gallagher.
We had a refrigerator and stove that color in the 70s....yes very trendy.
@@unclebuck1735 Now I'm picturing '70s soldiers getting issued Harvest Gold M16s, or '80s soldiers with polished chrome BCGs in their black rifles.
When I retired in 1995 the USAF was still using the M16, the Security Police were issued the M16A2. My duty weapon the M9 pistol and two magazines.
Anytime Ian goes to MAG I'm always looking at those AK's and other Rifles on the wall. Probably some stories there as well.
Fairchild also made something else I worked on the A10 "Warthog" now that has a gun.
I was an Aircraft Mechanic for twelve years and Combat Arms Training and Maintenance instructor after that. traded my hammer and screwdriver for a M9 and lesson plans.
I first got my hands on the M16 when I was 9 yrs old when I visited an Army recruiting exhibit at the Heart of Illinois Fair in 1965. They had one you could try set up with a light target like a shooting gallery game.
New out of the box I was issued a Colt M16 at Ft Lewis Washington in July of 66. Shipped out to VN the summer of 66,came home the fall of 67. 11Bravo.
So cool seeing the history of the rifle I got to use (c7a2) and the changes that came over time can’t wait for more.
I love these deep dives into history through the lens of weapons research and development.
I don't think there will ever be a rifle that can surpass the AR-15 at least not until the far future. It's perfection defined.
Cool vid. Thanks for that. I love the old AR15/M16's. One topic I would enjoy seeing would be the 60's variants of the CAR15
Happy birthday gun Jesus!
Seven maids a-milking, six maids a-milking, fiiiiiive maids a-milking.
Great video, as always. Forward Assist comment: As an 11B, between Afghan, Iraq, and everything inbetween, I have NEVER used the forward assist except for ONE occasion, which was actually caught on camera during my "AR15 Field Reliability" Video. The one time in my personal and professional life that I ever actually attempted to use the forward assist, as intended, and it didn't clear the malfunction. Had to rip the live round and try again, and it worked, and I agree with Eugene Stoner, that forcing a jammed round into battery is absolutely the wrong answer in terms of trying to make things work. I have no issues seeing AR15s without FAs, but the one thing I would never go without is the ejection port cover.
Anyways, great video, this was just amazing. Merry Christmas Gun Jesus, you know we all love you.
-Mr. 2nd
As a radio pog that never deployed but served with 75th, 82nd, and 20th SFG. You probably didn't shoot enough, or were just blessed with a decent rifle "luck."
@@replynotificationsdisabled Nah, you can easily clear jams without that FA. No matter what the issue.
They're only good for hunting or stealth missions if you had to quietly rack one in.
I went to Camp Perry in 1967 as a junior member of the Connecticut State Rifle Team. At the Small Arms Firing School, we were given a short introduction to the new M-16. We were used to the M-1, and had just been issued the first National Match M-14's. The M-16's on the line were just like the 601 shown. Weighed about 6 pounds, and painted green. Badly worn training rifles, cigarette burns on the stock, and we were told they were Air Force. I got into a tight sling, and got yelled at by the line sergeant, who told me that I could bend it that way. We were only given 10 rounds at 100 yards for familiarization- shoot 5, reload, and 5 more. All I remember is "BOING!", BOING" against my ear muffs. The shooter next to me had flipped his safety off, and it spun around to full auto. Cyclic rate was so fast that he only got 2 trigger pulls. He didn't notice he had popped off 2, then 3. I didn't like them, and went back to my M-14 and 2 silver medals.
Enjoyed it!?!
I loved it!!!
My dad was in the army and was in Vietnam 🇻🇳 in 1968 to 1971.
He just passed away Friday and he gave me his AR-15. I want to make it look like the M-16 A1.
Thank you
Dan
PS I like the Green Future. Lol
Happy Christmas from the UK Ian and all FW followers.
Forward Assist is very useful for chambering a round when snooping around in bad guy country or hunting. Allows you to SILENTLY chamber a round. Also when coming out of the water with a M16, you pull the bolt slightly to the rear to break the seal to allow water to drain out the barrel. Push the FA to seat the bolt. Do this well wearing wet/dry suit gloves. Been using the AR since my first issued XM16E1 to the new URGI.
“Wrrrow! That’s pretty kewl!” - Curtis Lemay, July 4, 1960
An that kiddies is how your AR became a thing
So that's where AR's come from uncle taylor?
Ah, I see you are a man of culture as well.
This video should have more views, this is literally top 2 most important rifles in history
Best Curtis LeMay Impression EVER! :D
I used information on this video in a 25 minute weapon briefing.
Thanks for that.
The M-16 history is so rich and full of twists and turns that is great to see Ian telling it. I'm sure it's gonna be a playlist here in the channel all about this gun like the SA-80's playlist. FW is becoming better and better everytime for those we love History and its tools and facts. Merry Xmas from Argentina.
Awesome storytelling ... thanks. McNamara use to work for LeMay in WWII ... interesting how that relationship intertwines and is critical to the story of this weapon.
I served in the Air Force from 1975 to 1989. By that time almost all of the Air Force rifles were mixmasters of one sort or another. I did once see a rifle with a triangular charging handle and green furniture but it wasn't issued to me and I don't recall if it had the duckbill flash hider. In 1975 many if not most of the AF rifles had the A1 style three-prong flash hider but it was pretty much gone by 1980 in favor of the birdcage. Some bolt carriers were serrated and some weren't but none of the rifles had a forward assist or a brass deflector. I never found its absence to be a detriment in any way. Today's M16s and M4s are much heavier and less handy than the original M16/M16A1 and to be honest, I kind of miss that.
I honestly appreciate the corrected subtitles as much as the facts that this gentleman so happily shares with us
Merry Christmas Ian hope your French 75 is long and chilled.
The Black Prince that’s what she wanted for Christmas
Thank God for companies like Movie Armament CO, because without them, all these rare historical firearms would be lost to over-zealous politicians.
Welcome to Toronto! Merry Christmas!
Thank you for explaining this important "forgotten" link in the historical chain between the well-covered WW2 era (Garand) to M14, AR10, AR15 and today.
One of the best rifles ever invented. Anyone who spends even a small amount of time with one can appreciate how revolutionary it was and how well designed it was. It's just an overall good rifle and is really fun to shoot.
I had read about the AR-15's development years ago and also watched the History Channel's: "Tales of The Gun" on it. You hit on everything they said. Especially about how the salesman went around to other countries to sell the ARs. The story of Curtis LeMay is very fascinating and no one could probably do something like that today? Your videos are always great and so well researched, along with the "artifacts" to show development in the weapons. Really well done.
In my experience with 6yrs in the army, one deployment, and I own an AR-15. I have shot thousands or tens of thousands of rounds out of this weapon and have NEVER used the forward assist.
Thank you for your service. From what I can find the original AR 15 ammo that Stoner designed his baby to work in harmony with used IMR 4475 propellant. The Army Ordnance Corps and Army in general have never, at least on public record, given any good reason for switching to dirtier, longer burning ball propellant. This allowed still-burning propellant to enter the gas system as the rifles also cycled something like 20 percent faster than they were designed to. This combo turned a reliable favorite among South Vietnamese troops and our Special Forces into a nightmare. I assume the forward assist could have helped with some of the subsequent jams, but obviously not enough to prevent the bloody consequences of the poorly justified ammo change, or many dead US soldiers would not have been found next to disassembled M16s in the jungles of Vietnam.
@@010203109 Man that's so sad. Being caught lacking while trying to field strip your weapon because it jammed up so much, and unfortunately that was the moment you get attacked. No wonder a lot of Vietnam vets I talked to preferred the M14 or even the BAR
@@magentuspriest My Grampa had an M14 in Vietnam. He said it was fine he just wished he had bullets. His outfit didn't have any bullets on hand after a CO got himself shot at for not responding to a guard one night.
I could happily listen to Clint talking history and guns all day. Brilliant video.
Clint? ...Who's Clint?
"The people running the company at Fairchild are really not convinced that anything's coming here, and they wanna cut strings and just be done with this rifle thing."
I cannot imagine getting a bigger egg in the face than this.
Fairchild made serious money off of royalties for the rifles and spares until the original patents expired. It is rarely mentioned that Boutelle and two of his successors were fired before Stanley Fairchild came out of retirement to stop the financial bleeding. Armalite and several other under-performing divisions were kicked to the curb soon afterwards.
I can, because I've seen the C&Rsenal videos about Pershing and Crozier rejecting the Lewis gun. :)
As I recall the safety selector positions were changed as during an early test soldiers would carry the rifles through an obstacle course. At least one section required low crawling and it was found that dragging the rifle across the ground would tend to pull the selector off of safe. It was believed that if something could move that lever it could also get in the trigger guard and fire the gun while crawling. In the updated configuration pulling the rifle across the ground would tend to push the lever on to safe, not off of safe.
For a moment I was convinced Curtis LeMay was hosting Forgotten Weapons.
If he was than he would be talking B52
Not enough cigar smoke for old "Bombs Away" LeMay to have been in this video.
XD
I can’t get over the “wow that’s pretty cool.” Genuinely made my night
I was in the AF Security Police from 88-94. We carried the M16. Not the A1 or A2, the original (black furniture). Ones bought be LeMay. No forward assist. While I was in, we did "upgrade" the hand guards from the bakelite triangular hand guards to more modern looking plastic hand guards. Many had also been upgraded with bird cage flash hiders, but I was issued rifles that had the original 3 prong flash hider.
It was weird to be off duty, watching a Vietnam documentary on the Tet offensive, and see soldiers fighting with more advanced M16s than we were carrying at the time.
BTW, while stationed at Minot, I found a tracer 30 Carbine round at a missile silo. It was bent and dented, having been run over who knows how many times.
Did you do your entire enlistment at Minot? My last duty assignment was with the 741st MS at Minot, and my last rifle had A2 hand guards and butt stock. I took great pleasure during post checks when asked how long the M-16 was. I responded by saying that my rifle was 39 5/8 inches long. When corrected I'd take my rifle out of the rack as well as another rifle with either the original butt stock or the A1. I'd place both rifles butt on the floor side by side to demonstrate the difference.
@@earlwyss520 No. My first base was Incirlik 88-89, then I went to Hahn from 90-92, then I went to Minot 92-94 working missile silos. I worked convoys for about 8 months, got my medical for helicopter fire teams, then almost right away got moved over to camper alert teams. CAT duty sucked, and was a big part of why I got out when my enlistment was up.
@@randallkelley3600 My assignments were Clark AB 88-90, Eaker AFB Ark 90-91, Balikesir Turkey 91-92, RAF Upper Heyford 92-94 (I was one of the last 3 WSA entry controllers), Incirik 94-95 (where I was qualified with and issued an A2), and finally Minot 95-97. I considered the missile field an involuntary cross train, as it was run completely bass ackwards from flight line duty.
@@earlwyss520 Convoys weren't too bad. CATs were terrible. For one thing we had tiny flights, 15-20 people, so once the week started, you hardly saw any of them. Flight cohesion suffered from this. The crazy hours were another problem. 6am one day, 6pm the next. 8 hours one day, 16 the next. Getting 3 hours of sleep and your phone ringing for a CAT deployment. On call 24 hours a day Mon-Fri. I couldn't even go to the chow hall without letting dispatch know where I was (carried a pager). Inevitably when we were sent on a CAT we could get the site security to reset. But once we were out in the field they left us there. So we would bounce from one silo to another getting reset after reset. Eventually we would be tired enough that we wouldn't try to reset the alarms so they would leave us alone and we could get some rest. It didn't help that the cops were very undermanned at the time compared to the missile maintenance guys. I had my "mandatory" rest time shortened on several occasions to meet mission requirements.
@@earlwyss520 I was at Hahn as it was shutting down. We had 3 squadrons of F-16s. One was sent to the Gulf War, the other two stayed behind and were painted in Illinois or Indiana guard colors and flown home. After the war, the other squadron met the same fate. So we had assets in the WSA and nothing to put them on. We even inherited some Army 155mm howitzer assets. No planes. Then one night CSC comes on with an in flight emergency. We asked if it was an exercise...nope. We had no idea how we cold be having an in flight with no planes. Turned out it was a British Buccaneer with a fuel leak. He landed fine, but the plane was on the flight line for 3 weeks.
Hahn closed in 93. A couple of my friends were there literally padlocking things up for the last time. Lufthansa operates out of Hahn now and some of my friends have gone back, flying in on a commercial flight. More weird, you can frequently see Aeroflot commercial planes there. Now that is a big change from my time there!
Were you at Clark during the volcano? What did you think of your Turkey assignment?
i finally got my hands on a 1976 colt sp1, i ordered the original stock furniture and had it cerakoted od green. its an awesome rifle, light and super twangy, little more recoil with the less weight.
Great info as always 🇺🇸
Bro you always post the SAME comment
@@ryanstreuli8667 he makes these low effort comments on all of Ian’s videos and other popular gun channels just so he can promote his own channel.
Merry Christmas! I’m with Stoner on the forward assist being useless. This message is brought to you by the tap, rack, bang gang.
I’ve never seen any other soldiers including myself use the forward-assist in training or in country overseas. Ugly and useless
Back in 1999 my AF buddy was issued a 601'ish rifle at Ramstein AFB for our TDY to Kosovo.
Thats barely english
@@jayuu8380 AF - Air Force; 601'ish - early early M16; AFB - Air Force Base; TDY - duty. You are welcome.
@@jayuu8380 Military acronyms are not English at all. TDY, temporary duty. AFB, Air Force Base. No SNAFU, you just don't understand the language. You have now been given a short lesson in military language. Very short.
@@terrywarner8657 thanks
@@jayuu8380 NATO Standard!
This is easily the most wholesome ar15 video in the world.
And most wholesome host and channel
The forward assist is like a wort on a beautiful face.
Former USAF (70's - 80's); Mattel: No forward assist, w/Cotter pin (use bullet tip to extract), retained swivel pin, large T-handle, 3-prong muzzle (rumors: "chain-link breaker"... never tried ;-) , cleaning kit in Butt stock (unusual?), flip-down trigger guard (use bullet tip to release)... thanks for brief trip down memory lane...
Historically inaccurate, LeMay actually said “That’s the bees knees!”
@Jen farmer No he was playing the air force song on the electric guitar
He actually said "I'm a big six and I don't take no wooden nickels from nobody. This thing is just the eel's hips."
I had an XM-16E1 at Ft Benning, a Harrington & Richardson A1 at one duty station, and GM Hydramatic A1 in the Army Reserve.
I would like to propose a moment of respectful silence in honor of those brave watermelons who sacrificed themselves so that Curtis LeMay might say "eah, that's pretty cool" and, as a result, we have another wonderful "Forgotten Weapons" video to enjoy.
My grandfather went to Vietnam in 68 in the Korean 9th Division. He went over during the Tet Offensive with an M1, and the day he got his M16 in late 68/early 69, he said it was the best thing ever. He loved the M1, but his M16 became the thing he always talked about.
I have in my possession a Webley and son Belgian Constable revolver in .320 if you would be interested in doing a review of it as it is fairly uncommon revolver
Technical One I would like to see that hope he finds your comment’
Thanks for routing for me man God bless you
Beauty
Excellent video as always! All the close up comparisons will help a ton when people are building 601 clones. Great work Ian!
Merry Christmas, Ian!
This channel is really starting to make me appreciate guns.
Great video. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying, "More on this please."
We agree the information in this video is great!
Eugene stoner literally nailed it first time
"All of these guys loved the AR-15... At one point in the Philippines, he gives away all his 7.62, all 8,000 rounds of it."
This is an interesting intersection with Philippine history.
In the Philippines, "ArmaLite" is the household name for either all assault rifles or really any modern long rifle. It's been that way for so long (maybe even less now, but certainly a couple of decades ago it was) that I've wondered why. I assumed that, like Israel, it was that the Philippines received surplus M16 rifles at some point, but now it's looking like it was even before that, that ArmaLite was looking at Asian markets.
That is incredibly interesting
when i was in the Air Force, i went on an exercise before separating in 1993 and drew an Colt's Armalite AR-15 (same look as the one they pan over with the green furniture) in an SP 601 pattern with the serial number right around 12,100.
the open flash hider is known as a duck bill flash hider, replaced with the three prong flash hider with a taper from the rear to the front. the duckbill was notorious for breaking when GIs tried to used them to twist and break packing bands on c-rat cases.
the delta ring is straight but was changed to a tapered ring because it was easier to grasp.
the triangle charging handle was changed to the T shape because the triangle required two fingers to unlock it, having tabs on both sides.
the take down pins werent captive with the spring loaded pins like on the new style
Only a hour old never been this early sweet merry Christmas
Interesting back in 1961 I was stationed at Marine barracks Naval Ordnance testing center we had a class on the M15 not sure if they called that , the engineer was very enthusiastic and said this will be the main battle weapon of the future it looked like a toy compared to our M! Grands . I do recall something being said about special alloys or coatings that the main parts treated and I think no oil was needed and made for any weather conditions. The base engineers and a few sergeants fired the new rifle we never heard of any real testing since we were an MP unit.
Merry Christmas and happy birthday Ian!
The M16 as a stopgap between M14 and SPIW: There's nothing as permanent as a temporary solution.
16:45 One use for the forward assist that isn't related to dirt ingress is chambering a round without a magazine (+1ing)
Ian, what a great Xmas present (and I didn't get you anything).
However, it wasn't so much the 55 grain bullets themselves but rather the old 1:14 twist that made the bullets marginally stable in air and caused them to yaw immediately after entering melons (or people). The Army had a set requirement for Arctic acceptance tests which eventually led to a 1:12 twist to stabilize the bullets in very cold air.
Wasn't it the combination of twist, barrel length, and ammo?
@@idontwanttoputmyname403 No, it was the rate of twist when used with that bullet weight.
@@FIREBRAND38 Hmm.
@@idontwanttoputmyname403 Hmm yourself. OK. Using Miller's Stability formula and all things being equal an M193 Ball round fired at 3250 fps from a 1:12 twist has a Stability factor of 1.26 where 1.4 is the minimum value for stabilization. Looking at the original 1:14 twist and everything being equal we get a Stability Factor of 0.93. To provide context, a value of 1.0 to 1.4 is marginally stable. The 1:14 twist is therefore classified as Unstable.
The only change made to the mix was the barrel twist went from 1:14 to 1:12. I mean, the barrel length didn't change between the AR-15 and M16A1 and it was still a 55 grain bullet leaving at 3250 feet per second.
The science behind it may be found in Applied Ballistics For Long-Range Shooting by Bryan Litz.
@@FIREBRAND38 I was saying "hmm" because I had nothing else to offer, not to be condescending.
However, I appreciate you elaborating further and telling me where I can find the information.
My father used to be in Royal Thai Army back in 1948-1970. I still have a manual of AR-10 date back in 1962 before the adaptation if Colt M-16 A1 by the Army in 1966. When I was unemployed in 1983 I was send to Colt Industry in Hartford, CT where it manufactured M-16-A1 at Colt Defense and the Colt Defense was the first fully automate assembly of M-16 and SP1 instead of using conveys.
The most embarrassing member of our Family, Robert. - Richard McNamara
Leader of the"Wiz Kids"!
Remember that time he approved the creation of a US program to draft people who were well below minimum standard for recruitment, and how said program was abject failure?
@@Calvin_Coolage McNamara's Morons. It was tragedy.
Mr. Stoner's opinion of the forward assist is mine as well. EVERY time someone has used it around me, I have had to break down a gun to pull the jammed cartridge out of the barrel. In one case it was a 5.45 in a 5.56 chamber that was so wedged in there by guys hammering on the forward assist I had to pull the barrel [yep, including the gas tube so I could spin the barrel nut] and pry it out by the rim with a screw driver...carefully...as it was still live
I remember seeing a transferable 601 for sale a few years back that was supposedly the rifle fired at Gen. LeMay's birthday party.