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can you do legends rethinks? because there are MANY scenarios that could have gone different...like zjni could have WON and taken over the galaxy! or the ssi ruu invasion is a succes for them! just please do them because a sucsseful ssi ruu invasion could lead to them going further than bakura and become the new vong! because big dildo ships are OP...
Ironically, the story of an innocent Palpatine being murdered was the story that the Empire sold to the human population of Coruscant in legends. In the novel Wedge's Gamble, Rogue Squadron saw a story in a Imperial museum that Palpatine had gone to Endor to negotiate with the rebels who had stolen the Empire's new ore extractor (The Death Star) and that Palpatine sacrificed himself to ensure that they destroyed no worlds with the extractor.
@@kuailiang2445 by almost he means plot armor kicks in. In the last second most of the leaders die by there bodyguard or apprentice including palpatine three times. It cool. Thrawn came the closest (killed by bodyguard)
Legends- the empire fought the new republic for 15 years and almost defeated them. Canon- the empire handed the the rebels/new republic victory in a platter.
@@panos617 both the legends and canon versions of the post-Endor war suck tbh. Canon is too short; legends too wacky with Palpatine returning or that three-eyed mutant who claimed to be Palpatine's son, got installed as a puppet emperor by some moffs and then got assassinated by a Leia droid he tried to marry.
Honestly, the Empire could have made the War little more than a minor inconvenience had they not been evil for the sake of being evil. Archetypical fiction tends to be annoying that way and attempting to flesh out the lore surrounding it just tends to make it all the more confusing.
I totally agree with you. The fact is that doing evil for the sake of being evil is just stupid, and the fact of the matter is that being stupid (including for a galactic government) has consequences, and those consequences are typically deadly. If the Empire's leadership had a few brain cells between them they could have easily won against the rebels, they lost because they were arrogant idiots.
"Conviene all ships on Endor. I want the moon obliterated and the rebels wiped from the face of the galaxy." "Sorry, sir, actually, we can't. The rebels have won. " "What do you mean they won? We have tens of thousands of ships! We have... We control countless worlds! With billions of troops at our disposal!" "But they just blew up the second death star and killed the emperor." "So?" "So that means they won." "How does that mean they won? They blew up the first Death Star years ago and the fighting continued. " "Yes, but they didn't kill the emperor. They had to do both." "We can't fight back?" "No. Sorry. This is the end of the Empire." "Really?" "Yeah... 'fraid so. That's it then." "What do we do now?" "I guess we could go get a massage." "Ah, let's do that."
That was original my hope for the sequel trilogy. That the Empire would wage a war (like legends) and not that they would say "LMAO, Emperor dead, lets follow some orders sentenced by some droids with his face". A real war would have been so cool, especially in movies, because that makes sense with "STAR WARS"
The horrible strategy on the Empire's part is mostly due to Disney's lazy righting in order to end the GCW in a year after Endor. The war lasted much longer in legends which made more sense. The Empire had tons of assets at their disposal and the war was still long and hard in legends, as it should have been.
Easy; Palpatine comes out of hiding, calls of Operation Cinder, rallies the Empire around him and operates as normal while finding a replacement for Vader. There is literally no reason he couldn't have done this if he was actually alive after Endor.
Sidious didn't want the Empire to win after Endor. Instead he wanted to remodel the Empire into the First Order who are even more fanatical than the Empire. Plus he can also combine the Sith Eternal with First Order making the Final Order a true Sith Empire. He did Operation Cinder into order to weaken the New Republic once they take over the Galaxy after the Battle of Jakku. Sidious also tried to blow up Jakku to destroy both the Empire and New Republic and invade the Galaxy later with First Order Supremacy and Starkiller Base. Not only does the NR have to fixed destroyed Imperial worlds and assets along with dealing with crime and imperial warlords. Sidious would have a massive advantage over the super weak NR threw his true contingency plan of the Final Order. A new and true Sith Empire.
@@Nubin2000 Yes, because allowing your Government to fall makes way more sense than imposing controls from above which you are able to do as the supreme autocrat in the Galaxy. Just stop; this is embarrassing at this point.
King Edward "Longshanks" I, Hammer of the Scots, Lord of Wales and King of England exactly Palpatine really should have just came back but guess Disney just doesn’t understand logic
@@Longshanks1690 Sidious didn't truly care for the Empire as people think, he saw it as a tool. The Galatic Empire was powerful and had dominant control of Galaxy along with wiping out the Jedi. Sidious just wanted to study and master the Dark Side without having to worry about the Jedi or Republic limiting him. Plus the Galactic Empire nearly already have fallen and failed at Endor and later Jakku. Palpatine had to fall back because his clone body can't handle all the power of his Dark Side spirt taking over it. Once the New Republic is weak from having to deal with Imperial warlords and Crimelord along with having to deal with former Imperial inside the New Senate and many Imperial loyalist worlds. Plus the New Republic fell back to its old pacificism and desire of non militarized galaxy like in the Old Republic Era post-Russan Reformation making them easier to attack. Blindside attacking the New Republic with a superweapon and invade the Galaxy after three decades of peace gives him a massive advantage.
Let people like Gilad Pallaeon And other Moderate imperials to have do you centralize the political functions of the empire to make it a representative democracy similar to the imperial ruling counsel in legends during Kir Kanos Arc in Legends.
But with competent people with moral integrity in charge. By the Force, Crimson Empire 2 and 3 didn't live up to my expectations after Crimson Empire 1 which was excellent. Contained, focused, had a charismatic villain, a bit OP protagonist but it made sense in context, and a bittersweet ending.
I think operation cinder is the most proof we will get that palptines return in episode 9 was not planned at all as it makes zero sense for palpatine to have these contingency plans with him still being alive. Unless there was genuinely zero communication between the movie story team and story teams for other media’s like battlefront 2
Yeah, I think that is good proof of how his return was not planned. That being said, are we honestly shocked there was no communication between anyone there by this point, seeing what has happened and knowing what we know? I mean, Abrams had a plan, then Johnson threw it out the window and into a bonfire, and then Abrams had to scramble around and try to make sense of things and salvage the plot. There isn't just a lack of communication between branches, there isn't any communication between people within branches.
Legends do make more sence just because you cut the head of an leader dosent mean everything folds within a year. I mean on legends ot took 15-20 years until peace finally arrived
Star Wars Rethink: What if Order 66 accidentally got activated far too early. Maybe shortly after the war is underway there is a bug in the inhibitor chip and/or its programming, and something goes horribly wrong. How might this Order 66 go with more Jedi and less clones, and Palpatine did not plan for this? How might this impact the war? What would this mean for Palpatine and the Sith's Grand Plan? Also another idea: if the Empire never built either Death Star. What would have happened if the Empire had invested all the credits, resources, manpower and such into other things, like Thrawn's fighter project, or maybe just saved those funds and such? Also, how differently might the Empire's military strategy be without the Death Star, for example how would they have approached the Battle of Yavin?
JediMasterZim without the Death Star the empire would have likely taken far longer to locate the rebel base. After all it was only because the Death Star destroyed the planet that Han and co were travelling to that meant they could then track them to the rebel base.
Pretty much after the emperor's death it would make sense that a lot of Imperial Commanders would want to take the opportunity to claim more power for themselves. Perhaps even rule over their own little Empires
That's exactly what happened in legends multiple Moff's warlords' Admirals and sometimes any asswhole of a star destoyer captain tried to become warlords and broke form the empire.
This is the biggest thing I hold agaisnt the new canon. The rebels simply put do not earn their victory compared to legends where the empire was simply shattered as a political entity like Alexander the greats. They still had all the power they amassed since the clone wars.
Its almost like post Endor disney doesn't make any sense at all. Also I thought Mon Cala had a very large defense fleet which is why the empire never really went after it.
The thing is the empire being able to pull a victory after Endor relies on them working together after Endor. Given how much internal functionalism there was before Endor, with a dead emperor that would only boil over into imperial civil war. A similar situation in real life being Rome post Adrianople there were many attempts some very close to succeeding to restore the Roman empire to its former seat of power but ultimately the internal strife made it impossible to do so. And just like the Roman empire the only way I see the Galactic empire winning is down sizing. The Romans survived in the east long after the west fell. A small group of imperials would need to locate a few systems with in reasonable reach of each of each that lack little to no rebel influence then fortify that region to make impossible to invade or at least much harder then it's worth from their reform the empire's institutions from ground up to eliminate future internal factionalism and then simply bide it's time. All the rest of the empire to die. And then wait until the New Republic cast it off as to small to be a threat. At that point very slowly begin building back up said power base. Then since we know the new republic demilitarized and grows weaker these reformed imperials having waited long enough and built their forces back up could launching an absolutely devastating campaign against the new republic.
I think they should’ve reformed the empire after they came back into power in your rethink. Instead of the corrupt hierarchy and rivalry. And officers making their own interests. They should’ve reformed it into giving the emperors power to a large group of high ranking officers and let them make the decisions that were best for the empire
The Empire could've won if they werent set on super easy mode, and the rebels werent allowed to use cheat mode lol, but that would make a very short original movie. Probably a ton better though!
If the sequels weren’t made, disney could create a universe were the empire won after endor and rely on legends to fill in the gaps or say that “oh there was a number of ISDs hidden away”
the idea that those following operation cyder would have any real power in a post Palpatine world is simply ridiculous. we are told time and again that the empire is full of opportunists and those seeking power for themselves. there would be atleast this group opposing cyder. then you have those that prefure the idea of an empire but were not 100% on the side of Palpatine that would have inevitably formed.
Hey man can you do a rethink video on if the empire didn't drop in qaulity after the clone wars like basically they kept the clone troopers,clone trooper armour, weapons such as DC-15A Blaster Rifles,DC-15S Blaster Carbine, Z-6 rotary blaster cannons and DC-17 hand blaster pistols that the clones used and keeping troop transport vehicles like the AT-TE Walkers, LAAT Clone Gunships and Capital Ships and Star Fighters Like the Venator Class Star Destroyers and The Arc 170 Star Figthers Star Wars:Rethink cause like you said on a previous video they relied on overwhelming numbers and that was one of many reasons why the empire fell
That would really have to rely on Palpatine and Tarkin namely not being in the picture. Palpatine's court intrigue produced the bloated corruption of the government that in turn, created Tarkin. He in turn completely retooled the military from a flexible sword into a blundering sledgehammer, eliminating any real creativity in the process and creating a heavy rivalry between the army and navy that hurt unit cohesion.
1) arc 170 < TIE fighter. the arc 170 was torn apart by CIS fighters during the clone wars according to episode 3, and thus its shields and armour were a waste of time, better to have a more maneuverable and more replaceable fighter. 2) venator class < imperial I class in terms of firepower against ground targets (most rebel groups) and the fact the imperial 2 has even less anti-fighter capability reflects fighters weren't an issue prior to Yavin 4. although there no reason not to use both. 3) even phase II clone armour was uncomfortable, keeping clone armour is as dumb as going to canon storm trooper armour. in legends storm trooper armour was both better at protection and more comfortable. if going by canon design improved clone armour. something cheaper and more effective and comfortable (like the T-34/85 was cheaper than the worse in basically everyday T-34/76) 4) keeping clones as an elite force while also recruiting normal civilians is the best way to go about things, thus you get the economic benefits and control benefits from a larger military. also begin non-accelerated ageing clones and using volunteer non-clone babies to replace rapid growth clones. 5) keep clone small arms in storage but use cheaper (if weaker) E-11s, as your not fighting armoured droids anymore (for the most part) 6) the AT-TE was a stupid vehicle, slow yet easy to destroy, get rid of the things. AT-ATs are better even if flawed (they are faster, better armed, better armoured and carry more troops. at the expense of 360 degree arcs and being a bit top heavy which is only a problem if the enemy uses a very risky cable strategy) 7) LAATs are ok, but could be improved, no need to be as big as they are. a streamlined LAAT should be made. prefurably with seats for the passengers. shields (to protect from small arms fire and light AA weapons) should be explored.
The main issue with the empire post endor, with cannon or legends, is that no single person had the clout or charisma to completely unify all the warlords who were promoted to their positions by being power hungry, backstabbing megalomanics. Palpatine was the only thing holding it together at the higher tiers, and his absence is what made it doomed to fail. Even if Vader had survived somehow and wanted to rule he couldn't. I think the only person that might have had a chance to pull everything together was Tarkin, but he was long dead by the time this happend. Thrawn was smart, but lacked the political clout (in cannon at least). Cannon was a clusterfek of epic proportions though... most of the navy would have been in open revolt at the plan, and the army too. the stormtroopers are probably the only ones crazy enough to actually want to carry out operation cinder, a lot like the SS in the last days of Nazi germany. But no, lets make the villians stupid as well as comically evil, and not real people with their won ideals.
Hard to believe how Empire Start falling apart after battle of Endor. Death of Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader could inspire them to wipe Rebels out for good
He lore guy i had a star wars rethink idea. Other than one told before about sith empire emerging from unkown regions in galactic empire era. What if mother talzin brought ventress, savage, and maul together and managed to convince them to abandon their desire for revenge. Their enemies thought they were dead till they attacked them. Reason i say mother talzin as the three seem to respect and admire her and willing to follower her orders. I think she should had kept all three together and secretly built their own empire in shadows. Such as maul idea to rule the criminal under world and becoming the kingpin of the galactic crime syndicate. Not sure what savage opress would do or ventress but sure mother talzin have some idea.
The empire could have destroyed the rebel endorsement fleet all they needed to do was call for backup from other systems and do a sneak attack from behind the rebel forces and trap them they could have ships that pull ships from hyperspace and blast them to pieces
Problem is that such a win is never feasible after endor as without the leadership and controlling figures of Sidious or Vader to rally behind. The dog eat dog and infighting mentality for resources, territory and positions between the various political and military portions of the empire always meant that in either legends or disney cannon that they would be tore apart by fighting for the throne and ultimate power.
They had the tech, they had the resources, they had an incredible ground army and an unrivalled navy. They even had the propaganda to keep the various worlds in check. They had the whole galaxy at their fingertips but they made one fatal mistake: they underestimated their enemy.
However Mon Cala has 'two' species on it that could prove problematic. You may not be able to convince the Mon Calamari to not fight for their world and break the blockade, however, the other species that have it's own throughout of galaxy might gather to even form a whole fleet and want to free their world. Through Rebel Propaganda could call to arms the people of these two worlds in your theory to build and gain enough strength to take both. They don't have to be military, the only objective would be the satellites. The Imperial Navy, was itself, fractured after all so a few civilian but decently armed vessels could overwhelm the fleet and destroy the satellites before an Imperial fleet response could take place.
Honestly, a lot of it comes down to competent leadership. If you'd been in charge, things would have been massively different, but the Empire worked on the GoB system, which mean that competent people are forever shunned.
With the recent death of their leader, Jabba, at the hands of well-known rebel leaders, the Hutts will be desperate for a chance to gain vengeance and provide an opportunity to recover from its devastating loss. I mean we all know how Jabba's death caused the Hutts to fall apart to the point where they weren't the top crime organization in the galaxy by the time of the war between the Resistance and First Order.
I found it confusing that no other Hutts put bounties out on them as if you kill a Hutt then the Entire Cartel goes after you. But I guess Jabba was able to consolidate that much power during the Clone Wars.
What If Palpatine Was A Good Emperor? What if he gave the galaxy the Empire he had promised, was all for aliens being in high roles and only used slavery as an extreme punishment for Rebels?
The ONLY reason that the Rebellion won so quickly after Endor was because the remaining Imperial leaders either turned on each other or continued to follow Papatine’s contingency orders to dismantle the Empire instead of keeping it together and fighting the Rebellion.
If I was the Empire the one thing I would of done for the imperials to involved; is starting recruiting way more non-humans into the imperial armed forces.
why? not even the rebels had large numbers of non-humans according to the movies. edit: i would remove restrictions (and create protections from discrimination), atleast for near humans. but i wouldn't actively recruit them either. there is no point from a propaganda perspective to actively recruit unless you make them rise through the ranks quickly but this would result in less competent leadership.
Sidious didn't want the Empire to win after Endor. Instead he wanted to remodel the Empire into the First Order who are even more fanatical than the Empire. Plus he can also combine the Sith Eternal with First Order making the Final Order a true Sith Empire. He did Operation Cinder into order to weaken the New Republic once they take over the Galaxy after the Battle of Jakku. Sidious also tried to blow up Jakku to destroy both the Empire and New Republic and invade the Galaxy later.
@@Longshanks1690 True but my main man Papa Palps can see the Future. Plus he knew the New Republic was going to win after Endor which is why he tried to blow up Jakku destroying the New Republic Navy and Imperial Navy. Those truly loyal to the Emperor will follow him into the Unkown Regions and rebuild their ranks. Palpatine won't have to keep hidden his Sith religion anymore along with having following he can absolutely trust because of their actions of Operation Cinder. They were willing to burn down loyal Imperial worlds for their Emperor because they knew the War was coming to an end with the New Republic winning and take the spoils of war, making their return harder.
Yes, but I would personally add a “double surrender”, i.e, the Galactic Empire would be willing to Forgive members of the Rebel Alliance who didn’t murder innocents (Saw Gerrera, if he is/was still alive, would definitely not get any pardons) AND the Empire would be willing to Change for the better, as long as the Militaristic Doctrines of the Empire (anti-Russon Reformation stuff) aren’t impeded. We might see Rebel Ships with TIE Fighter racks & Imperial ships with X-Wings, B-Wings, & such in their hangars; aliens in Stormtrooper/TIE Pilot outfits and more.
In new canon the mon cala had already evacuated mon cala, that is the root of their fleet. Mon Mothma playing favorites on the otherhand would ostracize the Alderaan survivors.
If there was I don't know another Sith in the galaxy to take control after the emperor died it could work but Luke is at that point the most powerful force user in the galaxy in my opinion and honestly he could just use Jedi Mind powers on everybody if he wanted to and it would still be a long War at that point in my opinion
Now, this is my kind of scenario! The Empire without Palpatine is definitely what I always wanted. And to make sure that this Galactic Empire is not full of flaws like that of Palpatine's regime, it needs to reorganize itself to look more like the Ottoman Empire. Unlike the rest of Europe, the Ottoman Empire lacked the persecution against the non-Muslims and even allowed them to practice their religions and have their own courts of laws. So this is what the Empire needs to do after the victory over the Rebels Alliance while also holding Chandrila and Mon Cala as hostages: 1 Sign a treaty with the surrendered rebels, the Black Sun, the Hutts, the Zygerrians, and the Pykes to make them acknowledge the Empire's suzerainty as autonomous vassals. 2 Reorganize the Stormtrooper Corps into something similar to the Janissary Corps of the Ottomans. 3 Taking alien children, particularly the near-human and humanoid species with the abilities to speak Basic, and give them the best education. And when they become adults, put those who're very scholarly to work for the government while those who're good at fighting will go to join the Empire's version of the Janissary Corps. 4 Turn the Black Sun, the Hutts, and the Pykes to the privateers in the services of the Empire. 5 Limited slavery as only a form of punishment. 6 Legalize the teachings of both the Jedi and the Sith so that the Force-users of the next generation can create sects that practice both teachings while balancing the light and the dark. 7 Engineer some threats for this New Empire to fight like the new separtists movement, instigating some Zygerrians to overstep the boundary of slavery, or hiring some of the pirates and the criminals like the Black Sun, the Hutts, and the Pykes to do some terrorist acts. 8 Compensate and repopulate the planets like Geonosis and Mandalore to build the good image of the Empire. With these reforms, this New Empire, this Empire post-Palpatine's regime will look much better in the eyes of the rest of the galaxy's population. With the government and military have the near-human and humanoid aliens within their ranks, tension between humans and aliens will decrease. By the way, can you do Star Wars Rethink: What if the Rebels Alliance didn't become the New Republic?
1) the Ottoman empire persecuted christians, the most obvious example being the janissaries (who were kidnapped and forced to convert to Islam) in the beginning and the Armenian genocide at the end. don't make up lies about the ottomans to make them look good, they atleast at times committed religious control like all people with a belief system (yes even atheists committed [bloody] religious control) at some point. 2) the Byzantines let musilims and other regions be in their empire just fine (atleast for most of the empire), as did many European states atleast at times. even when the ottomans didn't persecute, they weren't unique.
I'm not sure she would. I think if anything, she would've faked her death and gone into a convent or something. Especially since her very existence would've been a threat to Sidious. Not only would she be able to pull more support for the Rebellion just for being alive, Anakin would know Palpatine lied.
If I were the ranking Imperial commander in charge I would of consolidate my forces, push new technologies and tactical ideas, wage a propaganda campaign that reminds the people that the Rebels seek to restore the Old Republic by allying themselves with the Jedi. The very organization that attempted to take control of the government via military coup. The superweapons would be put away completely due to the fact that they are a PR nightmare to explain to the public. Instead they will be used in the long game. Instead of targeting the Rebels ability to make war I make every battle a war of attrition with my vast resources until the Rebels no longer wish to take over the galaxy and sue for peace. After five years or more of cold war and the Rebels have grown complacent we heat things up by using Starkiller Base to destroy the New Republic's capital system, deploy Cinder satellites throughout the rest of their worlds and launch the Final Order fleet. The Rebels would be completely overwhelmed and I get the Hero of The Empire medal from Palpatine himself. In truth if Tarkin had survived the Battle of Yavin I think this would have been his plan.
Operation Cinder was a dumb canon decision. I can get behind Palpatine going mad and making that his contingency plan, but the Grand Moffs and Grand Admirals should have said "nah" and make themselves feudal warlords. The continuing conflict could be much more interesting a la the 15th/16th century Italian Wars
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What if Palpatine listen to Thrawn and cancelled the Death Star
can you do legends rethinks? because there are MANY scenarios that could have gone different...like zjni could have WON and taken over the galaxy! or the ssi ruu invasion is a succes for them! just please do them because a sucsseful ssi ruu invasion could lead to them going further than bakura and become the new vong! because big dildo ships are OP...
Ironically, the story of an innocent Palpatine being murdered was the story that the Empire sold to the human population of Coruscant in legends. In the novel Wedge's Gamble, Rogue Squadron saw a story in a Imperial museum that Palpatine had gone to Endor to negotiate with the rebels who had stolen the Empire's new ore extractor (The Death Star) and that Palpatine sacrificed himself to ensure that they destroyed no worlds with the extractor.
Dude I’m reading Wedges Gameble right now! I just read that part at the museum yesterday! 😂
Well they almost did in legends.’
Emphasis on almost
Thrawn.
@@kuailiang2445 by almost he means plot armor kicks in. In the last second most of the leaders die by there bodyguard or apprentice including palpatine three times. It cool. Thrawn came the closest (killed by bodyguard)
Matthew Jay
Then Palapatine.
Careful Disney may execute you for that, for speaking the truth
Legends- the empire fought the new republic for 15 years and almost defeated them. Canon- the empire handed the the rebels/new republic victory in a platter.
What shitty writing for the new cannon
Legends>>>>canon
@@ghr501able Legends>>>>canon
@@panos617 both the legends and canon versions of the post-Endor war suck tbh.
Canon is too short; legends too wacky with Palpatine returning or that three-eyed mutant who claimed to be Palpatine's son, got installed as a puppet emperor by some moffs and then got assassinated by a Leia droid he tried to marry.
It's explained why palpatine wanted the empire to die for failing to save him.
Honestly, the Empire could have made the War little more than a minor inconvenience had they not been evil for the sake of being evil. Archetypical fiction tends to be annoying that way and attempting to flesh out the lore surrounding it just tends to make it all the more confusing.
I totally agree with you. The fact is that doing evil for the sake of being evil is just stupid, and the fact of the matter is that being stupid (including for a galactic government) has consequences, and those consequences are typically deadly. If the Empire's leadership had a few brain cells between them they could have easily won against the rebels, they lost because they were arrogant idiots.
"Conviene all ships on Endor. I want the moon obliterated and the rebels wiped from the face of the galaxy."
"Sorry, sir, actually, we can't. The rebels have won. "
"What do you mean they won? We have tens of thousands of ships! We have... We control countless worlds! With billions of troops at our disposal!"
"But they just blew up the second death star and killed the emperor."
"So?"
"So that means they won."
"How does that mean they won? They blew up the first Death Star years ago and the fighting continued. "
"Yes, but they didn't kill the emperor. They had to do both."
"We can't fight back?"
"No. Sorry. This is the end of the Empire."
"Really?"
"Yeah... 'fraid so. That's it then."
"What do we do now?"
"I guess we could go get a massage."
"Ah, let's do that."
"Happy ending?"
"Happy ending!"
Ah.....Robot Chicken.
@Commando Jessica XD
canon be like
‘But what about gallius rax, isnt he the heir to the throne and the next emperor?’
That was original my hope for the sequel trilogy. That the Empire would wage a war (like legends) and not that they would say "LMAO, Emperor dead, lets follow some orders sentenced by some droids with his face".
A real war would have been so cool, especially in movies, because that makes sense with "STAR WARS"
Amen. With an actual Republic and not some stupid resistance again. Clone wars style battles with original trilogy factions.
The horrible strategy on the Empire's part is mostly due to Disney's lazy righting in order to end the GCW in a year after Endor. The war lasted much longer in legends which made more sense. The Empire had tons of assets at their disposal and the war was still long and hard in legends, as it should have been.
Easy;
Palpatine comes out of hiding, calls of Operation Cinder, rallies the Empire around him and operates as normal while finding a replacement for Vader.
There is literally no reason he couldn't have done this if he was actually alive after Endor.
* calls off Operation Cinder.
Sidious didn't want the Empire to win after Endor. Instead he wanted to remodel the Empire into the First Order who are even more fanatical than the Empire. Plus he can also combine the Sith Eternal with First Order making the Final Order a true Sith Empire. He did Operation Cinder into order to weaken the New Republic once they take over the Galaxy after the Battle of Jakku. Sidious also tried to blow up Jakku to destroy both the Empire and New Republic and invade the Galaxy later with First Order Supremacy and Starkiller Base. Not only does the NR have to fixed destroyed Imperial worlds and assets along with dealing with crime and imperial warlords. Sidious would have a massive advantage over the super weak NR threw his true contingency plan of the Final Order. A new and true Sith Empire.
@@Nubin2000 Yes, because allowing your Government to fall makes way more sense than imposing controls from above which you are able to do as the supreme autocrat in the Galaxy.
Just stop; this is embarrassing at this point.
King Edward "Longshanks" I, Hammer of the Scots, Lord of Wales and King of England exactly Palpatine really should have just came back but guess Disney just doesn’t understand logic
@@Longshanks1690 Sidious didn't truly care for the Empire as people think, he saw it as a tool. The Galatic Empire was powerful and had dominant control of Galaxy along with wiping out the Jedi. Sidious just wanted to study and master the Dark Side without having to worry about the Jedi or Republic limiting him. Plus the Galactic Empire nearly already have fallen and failed at Endor and later Jakku. Palpatine had to fall back because his clone body can't handle all the power of his Dark Side spirt taking over it. Once the New Republic is weak from having to deal with Imperial warlords and Crimelord along with having to deal with former Imperial inside the New Senate and many Imperial loyalist worlds. Plus the New Republic fell back to its old pacificism and desire of non militarized galaxy like in the Old Republic Era post-Russan Reformation making them easier to attack. Blindside attacking the New Republic with a superweapon and invade the Galaxy after three decades of peace gives him a massive advantage.
"As we know, operation Cinder took effect." Nope, nope nope nope nope nope nope.
It's a dumb game plot and nothing more
Let people like Gilad Pallaeon And other Moderate imperials to have do you centralize the political functions of the empire to make it a representative democracy similar to the imperial ruling counsel in legends during Kir Kanos Arc in Legends.
But with competent people with moral integrity in charge. By the Force, Crimson Empire 2 and 3 didn't live up to my expectations after Crimson Empire 1 which was excellent. Contained, focused, had a charismatic villain, a bit OP protagonist but it made sense in context, and a bittersweet ending.
Would you consider Pter Thanas moderate? I do. He could have helped Pellaeon.
I think operation cinder is the most proof we will get that palptines return in episode 9 was not planned at all as it makes zero sense for palpatine to have these contingency plans with him still being alive. Unless there was genuinely zero communication between the movie story team and story teams for other media’s like battlefront 2
Yeah, I think that is good proof of how his return was not planned. That being said, are we honestly shocked there was no communication between anyone there by this point, seeing what has happened and knowing what we know? I mean, Abrams had a plan, then Johnson threw it out the window and into a bonfire, and then Abrams had to scramble around and try to make sense of things and salvage the plot. There isn't just a lack of communication between branches, there isn't any communication between people within branches.
JediMasterZim completely agree bro. It’s just straight up ridiculous
Unique Bart actually it makes sense, destroy the empire so the sith eternal can take over
Thrawn almost won in Legends (and it will always be the true storyline for me)
Legends do make more sence just because you cut the head of an leader dosent mean everything folds within a year. I mean on legends ot took 15-20 years until peace finally arrived
@@Groza_Dallocort And Peace never comes.
Legends period of warlordism after Endor makes way way more sense than Disney canon's travesty
Star Wars Rethink: What if Order 66 accidentally got activated far too early. Maybe shortly after the war is underway there is a bug in the inhibitor chip and/or its programming, and something goes horribly wrong. How might this Order 66 go with more Jedi and less clones, and Palpatine did not plan for this? How might this impact the war? What would this mean for Palpatine and the Sith's Grand Plan?
Also another idea: if the Empire never built either Death Star. What would have happened if the Empire had invested all the credits, resources, manpower and such into other things, like Thrawn's fighter project, or maybe just saved those funds and such? Also, how differently might the Empire's military strategy be without the Death Star, for example how would they have approached the Battle of Yavin?
JediMasterZim without the Death Star the empire would have likely taken far longer to locate the rebel base. After all it was only because the Death Star destroyed the planet that Han and co were travelling to that meant they could then track them to the rebel base.
You put more thought into the war after the Battle Of Endor than the entire Lucasfilm Storygroup. I salute to you, my good sir
Pretty much after the emperor's death it would make sense that a lot of Imperial Commanders would want to take the opportunity to claim more power for themselves. Perhaps even rule over their own little Empires
It happened in legends
That's exactly what happened in legends multiple Moff's warlords' Admirals and sometimes any asswhole of a star destoyer captain tried to become warlords and broke form the empire.
This is the biggest thing I hold agaisnt the new canon. The rebels simply put do not earn their victory compared to legends where the empire was simply shattered as a political entity like Alexander the greats. They still had all the power they amassed since the clone wars.
Its almost like post Endor disney doesn't make any sense at all.
Also I thought Mon Cala had a very large defense fleet which is why the empire never really went after it.
They do
That timeline seem to have a really really tiny galactic empire.
"Could of"
When will he learn
Should of
Pyrotheum
It's annoying, eh?
Makes me cringe.
The thing is the empire being able to pull a victory after Endor relies on them working together after Endor. Given how much internal functionalism there was before Endor, with a dead emperor that would only boil over into imperial civil war. A similar situation in real life being Rome post Adrianople there were many attempts some very close to succeeding to restore the Roman empire to its former seat of power but ultimately the internal strife made it impossible to do so. And just like the Roman empire the only way I see the Galactic empire winning is down sizing. The Romans survived in the east long after the west fell. A small group of imperials would need to locate a few systems with in reasonable reach of each of each that lack little to no rebel influence then fortify that region to make impossible to invade or at least much harder then it's worth from their reform the empire's institutions from ground up to eliminate future internal factionalism and then simply bide it's time. All the rest of the empire to die. And then wait until the New Republic cast it off as to small to be a threat. At that point very slowly begin building back up said power base. Then since we know the new republic demilitarized and grows weaker these reformed imperials having waited long enough and built their forces back up could launching an absolutely devastating campaign against the new republic.
I think they should’ve reformed the empire after they came back into power in your rethink. Instead of the corrupt hierarchy and rivalry. And officers making their own interests. They should’ve reformed it into giving the emperors power to a large group of high ranking officers and let them make the decisions that were best for the empire
Oh like the Greater Terran Union.
(The Templin Institute's stellaris invicta series if you don't know.)
The Empire could've won if they werent set on super easy mode, and the rebels werent allowed to use cheat mode lol, but that would make a very short original movie. Probably a ton better though!
They could’ve if they had used Skillshare or something.
Great videos mate! Could you do a video on "If the mandalorian forces joined the rebel alliance?" I think that would be a great topic to explore!
I love the title its very.... interesting
man this is The Art of War and Government and Politics combined man this is every educational !!!!!!!
If the sequels weren’t made, disney could create a universe were the empire won after endor and rely on legends to fill in the gaps or say that “oh there was a number of ISDs hidden away”
I love these videos man!
the idea that those following operation cyder would have any real power in a post Palpatine world is simply ridiculous. we are told time and again that the empire is full of opportunists and those seeking power for themselves. there would be atleast this group opposing cyder. then you have those that prefure the idea of an empire but were not 100% on the side of Palpatine that would have inevitably formed.
Hey man can you do a rethink video on if the empire didn't drop in qaulity after the clone wars like basically they kept the clone troopers,clone trooper armour, weapons such as DC-15A Blaster Rifles,DC-15S Blaster Carbine, Z-6 rotary blaster cannons and DC-17 hand blaster pistols that the clones used and keeping troop transport vehicles like the AT-TE Walkers, LAAT Clone Gunships and Capital Ships and Star Fighters Like the Venator Class Star Destroyers and The Arc 170 Star Figthers Star Wars:Rethink cause like you said on a previous video they relied on overwhelming numbers and that was one of many reasons why the empire fell
That would really have to rely on Palpatine and Tarkin namely not being in the picture. Palpatine's court intrigue produced the bloated corruption of the government that in turn, created Tarkin. He in turn completely retooled the military from a flexible sword into a blundering sledgehammer, eliminating any real creativity in the process and creating a heavy rivalry between the army and navy that hurt unit cohesion.
That would be a great video
@@Tracer_Krieg we shall have to see if lore guy does the video and see what the results will be
@@sheevpalpatine6070 indeed
1) arc 170 < TIE fighter. the arc 170 was torn apart by CIS fighters during the clone wars according to episode 3, and thus its shields and armour were a waste of time, better to have a more maneuverable and more replaceable fighter.
2) venator class < imperial I class in terms of firepower against ground targets (most rebel groups) and the fact the imperial 2 has even less anti-fighter capability reflects fighters weren't an issue prior to Yavin 4. although there no reason not to use both.
3) even phase II clone armour was uncomfortable, keeping clone armour is as dumb as going to canon storm trooper armour. in legends storm trooper armour was both better at protection and more comfortable. if going by canon design improved clone armour. something cheaper and more effective and comfortable (like the T-34/85 was cheaper than the worse in basically everyday T-34/76)
4) keeping clones as an elite force while also recruiting normal civilians is the best way to go about things, thus you get the economic benefits and control benefits from a larger military. also begin non-accelerated ageing clones and using volunteer non-clone babies to replace rapid growth clones.
5) keep clone small arms in storage but use cheaper (if weaker) E-11s, as your not fighting armoured droids anymore (for the most part)
6) the AT-TE was a stupid vehicle, slow yet easy to destroy, get rid of the things. AT-ATs are better even if flawed (they are faster, better armed, better armoured and carry more troops. at the expense of 360 degree arcs and being a bit top heavy which is only a problem if the enemy uses a very risky cable strategy)
7) LAATs are ok, but could be improved, no need to be as big as they are. a streamlined LAAT should be made. prefurably with seats for the passengers. shields (to protect from small arms fire and light AA weapons) should be explored.
Thrawn takeing charge of the fleet and general veers in charge of the army,,, a dream team
Based on what you said, it sounds like YOU should've ran the Empire after Endor Lore Guy.
The main issue with the empire post endor, with cannon or legends, is that no single person had the clout or charisma to completely unify all the warlords who were promoted to their positions by being power hungry, backstabbing megalomanics.
Palpatine was the only thing holding it together at the higher tiers, and his absence is what made it doomed to fail.
Even if Vader had survived somehow and wanted to rule he couldn't. I think the only person that might have had a chance to pull everything together was Tarkin, but he was long dead by the time this happend. Thrawn was smart, but lacked the political clout (in cannon at least). Cannon was a clusterfek of epic proportions though... most of the navy would have been in open revolt at the plan, and the army too. the stormtroopers are probably the only ones crazy enough to actually want to carry out operation cinder, a lot like the SS in the last days of Nazi germany.
But no, lets make the villians stupid as well as comically evil, and not real people with their won ideals.
I think by also focusing on small unit tactics, lots of espionage, assassination along with there enormous wealth, resources and manpower
The death star was a rebel super weapon, and Vader- palpatine died destroying it to save the galaxy.
I am a simple man, I see a Clone Shadow Trooper, I click
Lore Guy, When are you gonna recarnate as a Grand Moff, So, you could win the war for the Emperor? ;D
The emperor? Forgot that dead man! I'll follow him instead.
@@marrqi7wini54 U know what, You are correct!
@@Gopheria
I also recommend enlisting the services of Mr Eckhearts Ladder, Geatsly, and generation teck.
Hard to believe how Empire Start falling apart after battle of Endor. Death of Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader could inspire them to wipe Rebels out for good
He lore guy i had a star wars rethink idea. Other than one told before about sith empire emerging from unkown regions in galactic empire era. What if mother talzin brought ventress, savage, and maul together and managed to convince them to abandon their desire for revenge. Their enemies thought they were dead till they attacked them. Reason i say mother talzin as the three seem to respect and admire her and willing to follower her orders. I think she should had kept all three together and secretly built their own empire in shadows. Such as maul idea to rule the criminal under world and becoming the kingpin of the galactic crime syndicate. Not sure what savage opress would do or ventress but sure mother talzin have some idea.
Trouble with theory is there is no 'empire, to win without Palpatine.
Nice video 👍
The empire could have destroyed the rebel endorsement fleet all they needed to do was call for backup from other systems and do a sneak attack from behind the rebel forces and trap them they could have ships that pull ships from hyperspace and blast them to pieces
eric undar I’m afraid that Disney keeps giving the rebel’s plot armour
My biggest question is how did Vader play into operation cinder?
Dear Lore Guy,
Could've. Could have. Not 'Could Of'.
sincerely,
someone for whom english is a second language
Problem is that such a win is never feasible after endor as without the leadership and controlling figures of Sidious or Vader to rally behind. The dog eat dog and infighting mentality for resources, territory and positions between the various political and military portions of the empire always meant that in either legends or disney cannon that they would be tore apart by fighting for the throne and ultimate power.
COULD OF!?!?!!
I lost all respect for you.
That's not an uncommon typo
@@Aedanthefirst yep, and i despise each and every one of them.
@@Aedanthefirst also, is it a typo if people do it knowingly?
1:10 Well this is the Disney's Star Wars for you in a nutshell.
They had the tech, they had the resources, they had an incredible ground army and an unrivalled navy. They even had the propaganda to keep the various worlds in check. They had the whole galaxy at their fingertips but they made one fatal mistake: they underestimated their enemy.
However Mon Cala has 'two' species on it that could prove problematic. You may not be able to convince the Mon Calamari to not fight for their world and break the blockade, however, the other species that have it's own throughout of galaxy might gather to even form a whole fleet and want to free their world. Through Rebel Propaganda could call to arms the people of these two worlds in your theory to build and gain enough strength to take both. They don't have to be military, the only objective would be the satellites. The Imperial Navy, was itself, fractured after all so a few civilian but decently armed vessels could overwhelm the fleet and destroy the satellites before an Imperial fleet response could take place.
Honestly, a lot of it comes down to competent leadership. If you'd been in charge, things would have been massively different, but the Empire worked on the GoB system, which mean that competent people are forever shunned.
They could use their resorses on uprading the millitary instead of building ”superwepons”
Lore guy should be the new emperor of this Empire bow down to the lore guy
The funny thing is that the stormtroopers on endor are Palpatine's "best legion of stormtroopers"
They were until they became inconvenient to lazy writers..
Rae Sloane should have just killed Gallius Rax early on. He was the main guy making sure that Palpatine's contingency was being carried out.
By being actually smart and going to target practice daily
Legends is still 1,000,000 times better then canon
"Could of" holy fuck...
With the recent death of their leader, Jabba, at the hands of well-known rebel leaders, the Hutts will be desperate for a chance to gain vengeance and provide an opportunity to recover from its devastating loss. I mean we all know how Jabba's death caused the Hutts to fall apart to the point where they weren't the top crime organization in the galaxy by the time of the war between the Resistance and First Order.
I found it confusing that no other Hutts put bounties out on them as if you kill a Hutt then the Entire Cartel goes after you. But I guess Jabba was able to consolidate that much power during the Clone Wars.
You my friend are an evil master mind
What If Palpatine Was A Good Emperor? What if he gave the galaxy the Empire he had promised, was all for aliens being in high roles and only used slavery as an extreme punishment for Rebels?
Who could be the next emperor thrawn ( if he is still alive) or some one else
What if the Sith Empire under Darth Revan returned during Rebels?
"Long live the Empire!"
Long live the Empire
Who would have commanding both imperal fleets
Could've
If they all targeted one thing the Rebels had in common
Their plot armor.
I mean, the Empire is led by a man who can't die tbf.
The ONLY reason that the Rebellion won so quickly after Endor was because the remaining Imperial leaders either turned on each other or continued to follow Papatine’s contingency orders to dismantle the Empire instead of keeping it together and fighting the Rebellion.
If I was the Empire the one thing I would of done for the imperials to involved; is starting recruiting way more non-humans into the imperial armed forces.
why? not even the rebels had large numbers of non-humans according to the movies.
edit: i would remove restrictions (and create protections from discrimination), atleast for near humans. but i wouldn't actively recruit them either. there is no point from a propaganda perspective to actively recruit unless you make them rise through the ranks quickly but this would result in less competent leadership.
Sidious didn't want the Empire to win after Endor. Instead he wanted to remodel the Empire into the First Order who are even more fanatical than the Empire. Plus he can also combine the Sith Eternal with First Order making the Final Order a true Sith Empire. He did Operation Cinder into order to weaken the New Republic once they take over the Galaxy after the Battle of Jakku. Sidious also tried to blow up Jakku to destroy both the Empire and New Republic and invade the Galaxy later.
That's like breaking a $500 vase because you might be able to buy a $700 when you go to shop for one later. 😂😂😂
@@Longshanks1690 True but my main man Papa Palps can see the Future. Plus he knew the New Republic was going to win after Endor which is why he tried to blow up Jakku destroying the New Republic Navy and Imperial Navy. Those truly loyal to the Emperor will follow him into the Unkown Regions and rebuild their ranks. Palpatine won't have to keep hidden his Sith religion anymore along with having following he can absolutely trust because of their actions of Operation Cinder. They were willing to burn down loyal Imperial worlds for their Emperor because they knew the War was coming to an end with the New Republic winning and take the spoils of war, making their return harder.
How about “what if Tarkin was a Sith Lord”?
what if the rakata regained there technology when Darth Revan and Malak came
Yes, but I would personally add a “double surrender”, i.e, the Galactic Empire would be willing to Forgive members of the Rebel Alliance who didn’t murder innocents (Saw Gerrera, if he is/was still alive, would definitely not get any pardons) AND the Empire would be willing to Change for the better, as long as the Militaristic Doctrines of the Empire (anti-Russon Reformation stuff) aren’t impeded. We might see Rebel Ships with TIE Fighter racks & Imperial ships with X-Wings, B-Wings, & such in their hangars; aliens in Stormtrooper/TIE Pilot outfits and more.
In new canon the mon cala had already evacuated mon cala, that is the root of their fleet. Mon Mothma playing favorites on the otherhand would ostracize the Alderaan survivors.
Disney canon not only ruined the New Republic but made the Empire weaker post the battle of Endor unlike Legends.
If there was I don't know another Sith in the galaxy to take control after the emperor died it could work but Luke is at that point the most powerful force user in the galaxy in my opinion and honestly he could just use Jedi Mind powers on everybody if he wanted to and it would still be a long War at that point in my opinion
They pull an Admiral Daala then?
Star Wars fans should takeover Star Wars
So much for strategy.
Now, this is my kind of scenario! The Empire without Palpatine is definitely what I always wanted. And to make sure that this Galactic Empire is not full of flaws like that of Palpatine's regime, it needs to reorganize itself to look more like the Ottoman Empire. Unlike the rest of Europe, the Ottoman Empire lacked the persecution against the non-Muslims and even allowed them to practice their religions and have their own courts of laws. So this is what the Empire needs to do after the victory over the Rebels Alliance while also holding Chandrila and Mon Cala as hostages:
1 Sign a treaty with the surrendered rebels, the Black Sun, the Hutts, the Zygerrians, and the Pykes to make them acknowledge the Empire's suzerainty as autonomous vassals.
2 Reorganize the Stormtrooper Corps into something similar to the Janissary Corps of the Ottomans.
3 Taking alien children, particularly the near-human and humanoid species with the abilities to speak Basic, and give them the best education. And when they become adults, put those who're very scholarly to work for the government while those who're good at fighting will go to join the Empire's version of the Janissary Corps.
4 Turn the Black Sun, the Hutts, and the Pykes to the privateers in the services of the Empire.
5 Limited slavery as only a form of punishment.
6 Legalize the teachings of both the Jedi and the Sith so that the Force-users of the next generation can create sects that practice both teachings while balancing the light and the dark.
7 Engineer some threats for this New Empire to fight like the new separtists movement, instigating some Zygerrians to overstep the boundary of slavery, or hiring some of the pirates and the criminals like the Black Sun, the Hutts, and the Pykes to do some terrorist acts.
8 Compensate and repopulate the planets like Geonosis and Mandalore to build the good image of the Empire.
With these reforms, this New Empire, this Empire post-Palpatine's regime will look much better in the eyes of the rest of the galaxy's population. With the government and military have the near-human and humanoid aliens within their ranks, tension between humans and aliens will decrease.
By the way, can you do Star Wars Rethink: What if the Rebels Alliance didn't become the New Republic?
1) the Ottoman empire persecuted christians, the most obvious example being the janissaries (who were kidnapped and forced to convert to Islam) in the beginning and the Armenian genocide at the end. don't make up lies about the ottomans to make them look good, they atleast at times committed religious control like all people with a belief system (yes even atheists committed [bloody] religious control) at some point.
2) the Byzantines let musilims and other regions be in their empire just fine (atleast for most of the empire), as did many European states atleast at times. even when the ottomans didn't persecute, they weren't unique.
post Endor empire might actually be better if they won because then they wouldn't have palpatine influencing them to do evil
What if Padme survived and joined the Rebellion: Star Wars Rethibk
I'm not sure she would. I think if anything, she would've faked her death and gone into a convent or something. Especially since her very existence would've been a threat to Sidious. Not only would she be able to pull more support for the Rebellion just for being alive, Anakin would know Palpatine lied.
Gilad Pellaeon for President
What about the Jedi?
If the Empire wasn’t lead by incompetent leaders, they could have beat the rebels before the Battle of Endor.
Damn bro this is starting to sound like certain current events
One, I love the thumbnail, but two, shouldn’t it have been could HAVE won?
well after they have rebuilt they will have to fully fix themselves and not use fear and xenophobic to aliens as thats how the first rebellion started
Disney/Lucasfilm's lazy ass writing = Operation Cider.
I can’t wait for the clone wars sequel
Wait wut ??
Matei Iftode there is new clone wars sequel coming next year
If I were the ranking Imperial commander in charge I would of consolidate my forces, push new technologies and tactical ideas, wage a propaganda campaign that reminds the people that the Rebels seek to restore the Old Republic by allying themselves with the Jedi. The very organization that attempted to take control of the government via military coup.
The superweapons would be put away completely due to the fact that they are a PR nightmare to explain to the public. Instead they will be used in the long game. Instead of targeting the Rebels ability to make war I make every battle a war of attrition with my vast resources until the Rebels no longer wish to take over the galaxy and sue for peace. After five years or more of cold war and the Rebels have grown complacent we heat things up by using Starkiller Base to destroy the New Republic's capital system, deploy Cinder satellites throughout the rest of their worlds and launch the Final Order fleet. The Rebels would be completely overwhelmed and I get the Hero of The Empire medal from Palpatine himself.
In truth if Tarkin had survived the Battle of Yavin I think this would have been his plan.
Or they could've not just used battle meditation
Could **have** won after Endor. Sheesh.
Disney writers. . . come on, man. There is so much you could've done instead.
Hello there
General Shadow!
You are a bold one!
I love the thimbna
“Could *have* won.”
What I think is that whoever created the new cannon timeline may possibly be a closeted methhead. But what do I know
Operation Cinder was a dumb canon decision. I can get behind Palpatine going mad and making that his contingency plan, but the Grand Moffs and Grand Admirals should have said "nah" and make themselves feudal warlords. The continuing conflict could be much more interesting a la the 15th/16th century Italian Wars
Disaster at DeepSpace Besh never happens: Star Wars Rethink
Jaster Mereel survives the Mandalorian Civil War: Star Wars Rethink
Yoda kills Dooku on Geonosis: Star Wars Rethink
Starkiller survives the Death Star: Star Wars Rethink
What about reporting on this Lore Guy: www.theexpandeduniverse.com/post/fan-driven-billboard-campaign-asks-lucasfilm-for-more-legends