The Rise and Fall of AD&D & The Coming of OSRIC
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ส.ค. 2024
- OSRIC changed the face of gaming. When Wizards of the Coast decided to try to kill previous editions of the game, scores of retro clones rose up to fill the void. Corporate greed was overcome by the courage and determination of the people.
AD&D is back again. So are almost all the older systems. Unwilling to let small private publishers assume any of their precious revenue Wizards has made 1E, 2E, and B/X D&D legally available on DrivethruRPG.
Their hand was forced by a handful of small publishers willing to risk the wrath of a litigious multinational corporation. Swords and Wizardry, Labyrinth Lord, Basic Fantasy...
But OSRIC braved those unknown waters first.
WotCs attempt to destroy the old faith was a complete failure.
Come back with me and explore the history of AD&D. It's birth, it's rise, and its untimely death.
And remember the rise of OSRIC that breathed life back into AD&D and led the way to an old-school revival that forced D&D's new corporate overlords to admit defeat and re-release almost all of TSR's original systems.
FREE DOWNLOADS:
OSRIC Player's Handbook:
If you want a copy of the Player's Handbook I used in this video (It will be a bit more impressive if you print it double-sided) you can save a little money and keep your players from browsing the monster listings by tossing these out on the table instead of the full version:
drive.google.c...
OSRIC:
Download the complete book here:
osricrpg.com/g...
The PDF version is a FREE download.
If you want to buy a hardcopy the Black Blade link is broken, so... sorry. I got mine from Lulu. It's an excellent value!!!
This is not a paid promotion (sadly).
Looking to join a for real old-school D&D Campaign? Look me up on StartPlaying.games:
startplaying.g...
I'll never grow tired of listening to stories and retellings of the beginnings of D&D. Thanks for the history lesson.
Oh good! Because I never get tired of telling them, and my wife finds the subject rather dull. ;)
This makes me feel less guilty for never having picked up 3e/3.5e/4e, and glad that I still have all of my 2e books.
You didn't miss much. 2E is a desperately underrated system. It was a worthy successor to the original High Gygaxian tomes.
I lost my 2E books many years ago, but I've replaced them since with print-on-demand copies from DriveThruRPG. I am very seriously considering starting a new late night Greyhawk campaign in Fantasy Grounds using the 2E rules.
Same here , I had a friend by me the 3.0 dmg and played handbook but I didn't like the fact that it just felt like a generic fantasy rpg where anyone could be anything which to me made humans obsolete then there was all the feats that made the characters overpowered and in to hero's right from the start.
It just didn't feel like d&d at all so I stuck with ad&d 2nd edition but I did take one thing from 3.0 and that was how they did multi-classing I had to redo the experience charts by adding all the experience tables together then dividing th by the number of classes to get th total .
It worked out pretty good and I did keep class restrictions by race execpt in a few cases but there were no magic user dwarves or halflings but got rid of level restriction that was a few of the only things I changed for my game execpt adding a few classes and races from old dragon magazines that fit my setting but balanced towards the original classes .
I always customize my games to fit my world settings so by everything is the same .
But it's still ad&d 2nd edition and plays the same way
I had never heard of 3e... both 3e and 4e appear to have completely vanished from the 'net.
@@PatriceBoivin 4E was never very popular. It has earned its internet obscurity by virtue of its mediocrity. 3E lives on in the form of Pathfinder.
Sorry for the late reply. Just found this video, and your comment, and wanted to say as someone who has played all versions of D&D, second edition and everything that came before it are the best representations of the game. I've gone back to OSRIC and OSE Advanced for all my fantasy gaming. They are just that good, and just because something is newer does not make it better.
2E is criminally underrated and basically 100% compatible with 1e as well as compatible with bx modules. It’s the best version of DnD that’s been released and presumably ever will be released.
I run a 1E/2E mashup, but I absolutely agree that 2E was a worthy successor to 1E.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 2e = no XP for gold :( I play with osric and bx advanced, 1e tru a bx lens.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561Honestly, this is probably what the folks at TST intended. They released a cleaned-up version of the rules with slightly better organization and a few minor changes, and expected that gaming groups would just pick and choose the rules that suited them. If that wasn’t their intention, 2e wouldn’t be as compatible with 1e as it is. It was basically just an update.
Something I really enjoy about your stories is the reminder that, after a certain point dnd wasn't dnd anymore, which also ment that everything is dnd because it's more of a concept then a brand. It's a kind of alchemy that's created when friends sit around a table and commune. We never need to be afraid of a company taking our game from us because they never really owned it. They just make stuff. You can replace stuff. You can't replace the magic of dnd.
Be careful. We wouldn't want to make the phrase a part of the common vernacular. If we do that the phrase "Dungeons & Dragons" could become a legally "generic" term and WotC might lose their right to use it as a trademark.
Wouldn't that just be a damned shame?
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561😂
OSRIC is an excellent product. I picked up the spiral bound 2013 edition so it will lay flat at the gaming table. I also edited the 2.2 PDF to provide a players’ handbook (no magic items, no monster stats). Finding out that the falling damage rule had been fixed was an unexpected bonus.
Thanks for the reminder. I have been meaning to order a spiral bound copy.
Regarding demons and devils (and daemons and demodands) and 2nd Edition: TSR didn't actually get rid of those creatures - all they did was rename them and (mostly) refrain from using the original terms. Demons became "tanar'ri", Devils became "baatezu", daemons became "yugoloths", and demodands became "gereleths". Other than the new names, they were the same. If you wanted to, you could assume that the new names were simply what the monsters called themselves in their native languages, and terms like "demons" and "devils" were the Common-tongue terms used by humans and demi-humans. Very occasionally, the old terms did turn up, more so towards the end of the 2nd Edition.
Great telling of this story, hadn’t heard it summed up this well before
That's really nice of you, especially considering my teleprompter was broken that day. ;)
Thanks for the wisdom, I feel better knowing 2e all the way back is compatible.
Great review!
(I appreciate the shout out to the Mass Combat rules in the Companion set. The Mentzer Box Sets are the best version of D&D!)
OSRIC is very good as a resource for the AD&D rules.
Personally, I prefer the more complex miniature rules for mass combat released for AD&D but I was a wargamer before I started playing D&D. I realize most players prefer the simplified system, so I frequently use it.
True, but be careful. OSRIC isn't exactly a reprinting of AD&D. There are some minor and subtle differences. For example, the experience point charts don't exactly align... so do be careful with that.
Love this topic. My own games are a weird mix of 2e(base)+1e+BECMI
Mine is more 1E with 2E touches, but yeah. The best games are the ones you tweak to suit your unique style.
I love your channel and thank you for doing a topic on OSRIC. I recently started using it to run a 1st Edition AD&D game and using OSRIC for totally new younger players to AD&D. Two have played 5th Edition which I enjoy as well. However, they really are having a blast using OSRIC. I would also like if possible a review of several of the products made for OSRIC. Great job sir
So glad you liked it!!!
I love that you're introducing younger players to 1E. I run a 5E campaign and I really do find it a genuinely mediocre shadow of the older versions.
I know Tenser. His name is Ernie. As far as I’m concerned, that floating disc is still his!
HELLS yeah. ;-)
Just found this and subscribed. You mention "trying to get to 100 subscribers" early on, and then I check and you have 1.3k.... Well done and congrats, sir!
Yup. If I stopped cussing, I could monetize this channel and make a good 5 or 6 bucks a month. ;)
I do love doing it, though! Thanks for the sub!
Great video! It's always good to know some of the history behind the game---the word "convoluted" comes to mind...
I've played AD&D on and off since '81, and I never made the transition to 2nd ed., since there were some things I didn't like about it. Forget any edition after that--they don't capture the original feel of the 1st ed. rules. Yes, there were contradictions in those rules, but half the fun was calmly and civilly discussing a solution and making up our own house rules.
It's nice to see that there is still a market for Old School and that so many people have kept the faith all these years.
Agree. And I'd be inclined to point out that 5E has more, and worse, rules contradictions than 1E ever dreamed.
Started with B/X, got hold of AD&D (1st ed), bolted the 2 together and played that.
Then we drifted into RQ, other Chaosium games, and Traveller. This was thanks to the old White Dwarf magazine (before it was a GW inhouse advertising mag).
Then dabbled in many systems, tending to return to Chaosium type d100/BRP stuff.
So we missed all the other editions of D&D.
Only recently getting back into it D&D flavoured games via a load of OSR...which again we've hacked together.
Never really played rules as written.
The fact that so much of the OSR community puts out free rules and supplements is fantastic.
You didn't miss much, and OSR really is where it's at, now. If you ever do get a hankering to drop some dough on hardcover RPGs I really don't recommend 5E D&D. I'd look at C&C or Mongoose Traveller.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 5e doesn't interest much. If I'm playing fantasy, and it's not RQ, I currently run a B/X, AD&D, LotFP frankenhack.
Some things I've bolted on: ascending AC, LotFP stylee thief/specialist skills, roll to cast also as I've always disliked the Vancian magic.
Loved it. It looks like I became subscriber 200. You definitely deserve more. ;)
Thanks Rui. This was definitely my favorite vid so far!
Arneson was a co-author of original D&D,. But he was never a partner in the original TSR. The three partners were Gygax,, Kaye and Blume. After Kaye died in 1975, the partnership reorganized into a corporation. Arneson owned some stock in the new corporation. However, I don’t think he was an officer.
You may very well be right, but he was contractually entitled to royalties. This became a huge source of friction between him and Gygax.
Yep. You are right! I stand corrected. THANKS!
Great review.....I started back in 74/75.
Thanks JJ. I picked up the white box in '78. Good times. It's been an amazing ride!
OSRIC is a great OSR; I use it as my monster manual and treasure tables. Because I play Fantastic Heroes & Witchery, usual.
Great information! I have been (for some reason) digging into early DnD, Dungeon Mastery ect. I realized that I really didn't know much about the game that we loved to play as kids in the late 70's early 80's. Acquiring the old ADnD tomes and discovering OSE, BF and Pathfinder 2e has been fun. So I'll check out OSRIC. But I have some 4e and 5e. Bought mostly used or damaged. (Cuz I like seeing if I can fix em). These versions are easy to understand but I don't feel a connection to them. Mostly I'm trying to definitely determine what I want to play and be proficient in whatever I choose to do.
I am running Shadowdark atm but i am uaing alot of stuff from OSRIC because the megadungeon i am running was made for OSRIX and its easier to use some of the charts. So i have a mish mash of rules with some homebrew stuff and i love it! I love OSRIC (AD&D 😊 will be dropping in some modules from time to time to break it up and to expand the world along side my own stuff. Great thing with OSR tyoe games tou can run anything from basic up to AD&D 2th Ed and the countless third party stuff from all the way back in the day until what came out 5 minutes ago 😊 thanks for this bud great watch/listen. I am currently writing up a detailed hexcrawling procedure to be very detailed or if the person wants to have as basic detail as the GM wants.
Just found your channel. Retro is the way to go.
Ascending AC doesn't bother me and it is easy enough to convert on the fly.
I couldn't agree more, Myke.
I was 11 years old when I started playing d&d and never had a problem learning the rules once I read them a few times and THAC0 was easy to grasp which is why I find it weird that people twice my age when I first started playing and understood it can't grasp it at 20+ years old
Saw your video on the bird app. Always willing to listen to the older generation on ttrpg’s! Appreciate the video
I appreciate your time! There's nothing more important than time. Thanks!
AD&D/OSRIC discussion continues at the Knights & Knaves Alehouse forum.
Stumbled upon this today and just subbed! Thanks for sharing your insights and memories!
Thanks so much for your time, Fred!
I agree with your point that OSRIC is a much easier read than the 1e books. I've been trying to learn the 1e system to run with my group and the 'high gygaxian' is so hard and poorly indexed/laid out. I've been using OSRIC almost as a 'translator' when I can't understand some of the complex rules i.e combat segments etc. I played the Holmes basic rules (Keep on the Borderlands) back in the 90s, and now mostly 5e, but I'm really keen on the brutal sword&sorcery feel of 1e/OSCRIC
I couldn't agree more. I am running a 5E campaign, too, but when we wrap it up I am going back to AD&D.
Thanks for your videos! I recently found your channel. While I like 5e well enough, I see the problems with it. Which is why I want to try a few OSR games.
It's awesome to hear from people so knowledgeable about old school editions that my family used to play. It's a shame WotC has not treated the brand with the respect it deserves.
Again, thanks for the video.
And thank YOU for taking the time to watch them!
If you're looking for a OSR D&D experience I recommend OSRIC, as I'm sure you already guessed. If you are looking for a more B/X experience, try Basic Fantasy.
www.basicfantasy.org/downloads.html
If you REALLY want to go back to the VERY beginning, Swords & Wizardry is an excellent OD&D clone.
www.froggodgames.com/product/swords-wizardry-complete-rulebook/
My personal favorite MODERN OSR rules set is Castels and Crusades:
www.trolllord.com/indexnew.html
Excellent Video! I’ve become involved in several Old School Essentials games and though they are fun, I feel like I have a calling to AD&D 1st Edition / OSRIC. I grew up with the original 1e books including stuff like the Wilderness and Dungeoneers survival guides, etc. Sadly I never got a serious game going…
I also have a soft spot in my heart for 1E. I played it for many years after it went out of print and will certainly play it again in the near future. For the time being I am running my OSR games in 2E and C&C simply because they're supported by Fantasy Grounds, but I will certainly start my next in-person campaign in 1E.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 all the OSRIC data mods are on the Fantasy Grounds Forge as free downloads - combine that with the 1E extension and the 2E ruleset plays like 1E/OSRIC
Exactly, WotC just kept reinventing AD&D and it stopped being D&D, I left basically after 3e and just started doing other systems. I stuck with Palladium/Rifts megaverse mainly. I have 5e AD&D but seldom play it , I go very old school, with like basic fantasy and other old school type games. OSRIC is an awesome system too.
I stopped buying their products when 3rd edition came out. I still play first and 2nd edition now but on roll20 or one of the other websites. We have a store that is local to me and I have tried to get an old school game going but all they want to play is 5th edition. I am glad we can buy the old stuff now with out having to get a loan for it but it is sad that there seems to be fewer people who want to play the old versions of the game.
Many new players just want the latest new race along with all the new feats to make the best combos to use in combat and love the fact that it's much harder for their characters with elaborate backstories to not die in combat .
5e holds the players hands and keep them safe so their 1st level superhero can become even more powerful as time goes by .
To me it's no longer d&d because wizards turned it into a generic fantasy superhero tabletop MMO
5E is fine for what it is, but it's not really D&D in the OSR sense of the word. WotC owns the brand, but that's where the similarity to old-school D&D begins and ends. WotC is a wholly owned subsidiary of Hasbro. That's about as corporate as it gets. Corporations don't care about art, or tradition, or creation. All corporations care about are profits. They did the same thing that they would have done if D&D was a video game. They dumbed it down and made it easier to appeal to a broader audience. And they were wildly successful. WotC's RPG is offers consumers immensely popular, power fantasy TTRPG, but it has NO resemblance to the creators' original vision.
Real, old school D&Ders were marginalized back in the day, and they're still marginalized, today. I don't expect that will ever change.
Thanks Grump,
Good review.
Subscribed. I'll share it around a bit.
He shared the channel & now I'm here too. Kudos!
Barnzy! :D
Woot! Thanks Samwise!
Wow... Looks like you have a few uploads yourself. Hope you don't mind if I drop by some time and take a look around!
Oh wow... Thanks. Looks like I need to broaden my horizons a bit. I had no ideas how many small producers were putting out relevant content.
I'm a vlogging caveman from way back. Hehe.
Original AD&D player here. I’ve played all editions except 4th.
I still have my original 5 AD&D books (never got MM 2) and it’s my favourite. Yes, it’s partly sentimental … but it’s the original for me and everything else fell short in some way.
I have 20 original modules too. :)
Take a look at C&C. It's a modern rule set, but it's so true to the original AD&D rules that you can still use 1E/2E modules and campaign settings.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561
Does that use the d20 system?
I don’t really like that if it does. Hence my preference for 1e:)
Thanks for your insights
Time to relearn 2e.
I am running a 2E game on StartPlaying.games. After 2 years of DMing 5th edition it's been a breath of fresh air. I had forgotten how much more fun it is than nuDnD.
I'm curious to hear about options for mass combat. Have you ever considered making a video about that?
YES! I realize not many people even consider the need for a mass combat system, but I don't take an RPG system seriously if it doesn't include one. OSRIC, for example, is 100% compatible with the 1E Battle System supplement.
It is soo true what you ve said about the people responsible for the satanic panic, wisdom 18. A pity i don t have a group to play old school. I enjoy third edition...It must be because it was my first contact with the hobbie
Ahh... First love.
Your latest video sent me here.
As someone who owns an original "white box" D&D set & owns & played every variation up through 2e, I liked 3e. Adjusting to a non-negative THAC0 is weird at first, but I liked the expanded stats for monsters & many of the other changes. Most of my 3e experience comes in the form of Pathfinder 1e, which is basically 3.75e. But I definitely had fun playing it. 4e I think many fans consider to be D&D "losing its way" & degrading into WoW in paper & pencil form. I've heard very good things about 5e, being supposedly a return to form. Personally, I'm good with 1 & 2e. 3e via Pathfinder.
I agree with you that 2e is underrated & I am glad that these retro revival versions are being made though. There was a certain simplicity & vibrancy as a result of that in 1e especially, but much of that carried over to 2e, albeit a bit bloated with expansions.
One of my biggest regrets was giving away much of my 2e books. I still have a LOT, but I had an absolute ton. Getting those back at current retro prices would cost me a king's ransom. I at least kept my 1e, modules, monsterous compendiums, & basic boxed sets & Rules Cyclopedia
Hey, I get it. D&D #3.X and PF have a lot of devotees. It's just not my cup of tea. The use of ascending AC isn't my problem with it. I LIKE the ascending AC mechanic.
My biggest objection to 3E is that it isn't a new edition of the old game. It's a completely new game that was marketed as a new edition. There is zero backwards compatibility between 3E and previous editions. By putting out a completely new rules set, and simultaneously removing the older editions from distribution, they were effectively trying to strongarm customers into spending hundreds of dollars to replace a game they had already bought.
Another HUGE objection was the lack of a mass combat system. That was a total dealbreaker for me.
Lesser objections abound. I could go on for an hour about it. For example: The addition of social skills was a huge mistake, IMO. I don't want players making a persuasion roll. I want them to actually persuade. It's an issue of preferring role playing to roll playing.
Not to mention I had already invested altogether too much time, money, and energy into the original D&D tradition to just throw out years of hard work and adopt a completely different game/rule set.
Play what you love, love what you play. But I won't be running any more 3E/PF games.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 It's funny. You're the only person I've seen say it's not backwards compatible. Granted, they add a lot of game system mechanics like more fleshed out (& basically required) skill systems et al. But the stats are the same, as are the classes, races, monsters, etc. Why can't you convert them? I'm legitimately asking. I'm a game programmer by trade so I find it trivial to convert game systems, especially where the carryover in stat mechanics is pronounced like in 2e-3e. I'm not meaning to be insulting at all but have you tried? I think there's conversion guides out there.
The social skills thing seems like a non-issue to me. 🤷♂️ Either the GM could ignore it & have the requirement to actually persuade, as you say, or make a CHA check. I had GM's doing that back in the 90s when I played a LOT of 2e. A lot of what in 3e became skill checks the group I played with (working at a RPG/Comic store back then) just had everything as stat checks. Isn't that how you dealt with this?
I hear you completely though on having something that works (1e & 2e), being able to have fun with it, knowing the ins & outs of it, & there being little incentive to buy an entirely new set with everything matching up without the aforementioned conversion process. I never bought 5e & keep many of my old games for the same reason. I have a lot of 1e & 2e books, Pathfinder on top of that, so, unless I just want the new thing "just because", there's really no reason to invest in it. That money would be better spent elsewhere.
With companies, they're hoping the refresh will bring in new players/users & blow in new funds to the company. Otherwise, eventually they'll reach a saturation point & sales won't be enough to keep the company in business anymore. I have little doubt you know this, but FWIW to play a little devil's advocate.
@@NinjaRunningWild I could. But why in Heaven's name would I want to squander my precious game time "converting" my old materials to work with a new system, and tweaking out the many elements of 3E that I don't like, when I can just play what I consider a better game that's already fully compatible with the materials I want to use? That way I can spend my precious game time... You know... Gaming.... Never mind the ridiculous amount of work it would take just to homebrew a mass combat system (which used to be the heart of the previous editions).
Great video!
Thanks!
(actually separate race and class were in white box d&d, complete with class restrictions and level restrictions, which was carried into Ad&d. It wasn't until b/x that race and class were linked. Presumably because with the limits, you might as well just be playing a race-class)
I don't know why, but I laser focus on this. Probably because I was very surprised to hear that not only did Basic come out after Advanced, but also that I thought race as class came first, since separating them seems more progressive.
And you are absolutely right. In my defense, 1980 was 2 generations ago, and I smoked a lot of pot back then.
I miss this guy’s daily twitter posts.
Awww... That's an AWESOME thing to say. Thank you! FYI... I am back on Twitter. Link is in the profile. I won't be posting DAILY anymore, but I will be around.
19:39: "The Bard is gone..."
I was always confused on why the Bard was such a difficult class for which to qualify, and its loss isn't great. However, do you house rule a Bard class that's more a peer of other classes? I think it's a good concept, but the 1st ed rules seem a bit prohibitive with the required minimums.
Why do you like 1st Edition OSRIC better than 2nd Edition?
Mostly because second edition began stepping away from resource management as a game mechanic. In 1E players were forced to carefully track resources like food, water, torches, oil, etc. In 2E these logistical considerations started getting brushed over.
I mean back in the 90's I thought D&D sucks. I switched to Rolemaster after like 6 month with D&D. Now I can see its value for all the interesting implied setting bits. Still think the system is very unrealistic and straight up weird/badly designed (those evasion rules....) but I can see it's historic achievement.
I loved RM. I ran a MERP campaign set in the dawn of the fourth age using RM. It's not that D&D sucked. It's just that some people want to trade streamlined play for realism. Some don't. I swing both ways where crunch is concerned.
Sometimes, you feel like a nut. Sometimes...
Great video.
Thanks, Matt.
Great video! We only had 2 girls who ever even gamed with us back then, and they totally got the gender differences. And, I love the "that's just dumb" comments...lol...exactly right! "Get over it, okay?" 😅👍
Thanks, Retro. If I ever find a nice word for "stupid" I'll start using that instead.
What's the difference between ad&d and d&d?
For the long version, watch the video.
The short answer?
D&D was the original game which later evolved into what's now called "B/X" or "BECMI." This game was labeled "Dungeons and Dragons" and co-creator Dave Arneson received royalties for each copy sold. AD&D was Gary Gygax's pet project. He did not share proceeds with Arneson. It was parallel published as a completely different game system and was labeled "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons."
Excellent! Thanks
Woot! Thank YOU, Korg!
Can you tell me which d&d system that Osric, DCC, and other systems like that are based on. The original system they claim their basing it on?
Osric is a clone of 1E AD&D. You can write the rules differences between them on the back of a matchbook cover. DCC is its own thing. It's not a clone, but it does a wonderful job of recreating the spirit of old school D$D.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 I don't remember that happening in any d&d but it has been a while. I have played DCC but not osric or osr but have to see. One of biggest problems is you cannot change stats to make a warrior, thief, wizard. You roll for str first and take what you get, an 8 for example. Then I roll a 7 and 10. That my first three stats period. I don't remember that was I was sixteen or so.
That's up to your DM more than about the rule set you use. As far back as the 1E DMG the official rules only offered "recommended die rolling conventions" and almost all of them involved letting the player roll first and then distribute the results to your stats as you like.
Great video. Thanks.
I'm super glad you liked it!
Nice vid!
Thanks, Kyle!
We only play basic, 1ed, 2ed the new stuff is just Dungeons & dragons in name only as far as we are concerned...
I'm right there with ya, Bobby. I have a 5E campaign. It's a hopelessly mediocre RPG. It's nothing like what I consider ACTUAL D&D.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 I'm 53, I and my brother have been collecting books, mini's, etc for darn near 40 years, we have amassed a heck of a library and collection and we still buy books so we always have them, as well as a vast pdf library online for D&D and other old school gaming systems, I and my brother agreed to give it all to his son that plays, he is very excited but he was told only after I and his dad are a pile of bone dust will he get everything. lol
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 once my nephew brought in some books he and his friends had purchased, it was the new stuff, we looked at him and said remove that corruption from this sacred place " our game room" lol
Penalties! YEAH! The best settings are the ones from ADnD!
NERRRRRRRRRD!!!!
...Can I hang out?
Come on by anytime, Ogre.
Lol now AD&D books and modules are collector’s items on eBay! Sad really now it’s cool to be geek.
Yeah. Everything that mainstreams turns to garbage. Once the big multinational corporations take an interest in anything they just buy it and dumb it down for a "broader appeal."
"Some things are stronger, some are weaker, get over it".
Exactly why I used the gender modifiers back in the day.
So did I, although I homebrewed them to make them more balanced for female characters.
GIMME THE BOOK!
Maybe...
I still think not only is 2e a great ruleset, it's the "best rule set", they will pry my 2e stuff from my cold dead hands. "Zeb" Cook should get more credit for streamlining the game while make it faithful to original play style, and opening up more character "individualism" without making it a rule min maxing set like 3rd/pathfinder has done. I think unfortunately the politics around the unfair treatment of Gygax left Cook being unfairly maligned by association to "Lorraine" etc. But Zeb gave us the system that is the bedrock of all my best memories. In a perfect world, Gygax and Cook would have had their own company away from the politics. I will always prefer Gary Gygax's world of Greyhawk for setting. My group was there from the red box forward, and played through 3rd edition, but 2e were the glory days.....still play 2e on FG. I have great memories from 1e as well but it was "unbalanced"....massively so, and kind of silly that the scariest warrior to walk the wastes was a Bard.......I'm sure Gygax would have done something similar to streamline and balance it if given the chance. I love OSRIC modules but I personally if only for nostalgia prefer using 2e rules and supplimental material.
I don't particularly care for the way they moved away from resource management, and I REALLY didn't like the changes they made to the lore to pander to the Satanic Panic Karens. But it is an excellent rule set. I am currently running my professional game using it.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 But you can just add those monsters, deities etc back in. AT the time they were just trying to defend the company I would more lay blame with those tryingt o censor anything they dislike. I think it is not a perfect ruleset, but still the one that worked best for the groups I have played with.
Wait , youre telling me that first ed dnd had actual gender differences and also recognised the superiority of reach weapons , and even had extra rules for them? Esp the gender differences, thats practically unheard of even in rpgs that try to pass themselves off as realistic or even the least bit authentic, its always possible to play Xena with the strength of Hercules, but sorry thats just not how the world works mate. Its the exact same as the snowflakes with their five foot dwarfs and no minuses on fantasy races
Wokezards ruined d&d and has said inn the past that they bought d&d to turn it into magic the gathering rpg but kept the name d&d and now they have hired a bunch of MMO video game designers .
Another thing we had ad&d for well over 30 years with only a few minor changes to the game yet 1st & 2nd edition are still compatable with only minor tweaking but wizards keeps coming up with new rules sets every 5 to 8 years and in 2 years there will be a new rules set to milk players out of $60 a book and yo are going to need about 4 to 6 to start with just to have the basic set .
Right now there are 28 books for 5e that add far to many classes , races and feat which to me has lead to no actual campaign cohesion at all and just a random mess of anything goes
I actually did use gender differences in AD&D, but I understand why it upset people. Non-human players got attribute balances that evened out their minuses. Hobbits lost a point of STR but got a point of DEX in exchange. Female characters got no such balancing factor, and I had a problem with that. I homebrewed a solution for female characters (which didn't matter much because D&D was a damned sausage fest back then). Any FEMALE character who rolled higher than a 18/50 STR could add a number of +1's to other stats depending how high the roll was. These bonuses could not stack or raise a stat above the racial norm, but it still had the potential of making female characters much more badass than they would have been otherwise.
I kept meaning to homebrew a better fix, but it was hard as heck to do without unbalancing the game.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 Charisma and maayybee wisdom seems like the obvious fix. As in men have faarrr higher strength maximums, as evidenced by looking into Olympics stats , and women always had to rely on social influence to survive and thrive. Sucks there isnt a charisma only class in ADnD. I had a quick look in the black and gold ADnD 2d edition book and saw no gender differences there, i would be waayy surprised they even included it in any way back in the day, they already were social outcasts , no need to further antagonise another group with lots of pull. That and so many people want to play Xena with no downsides.
@@kevind.k7512 I hate to break it to ya dawg, but women also have a higher pain threshold than men, live longer, and have higher survival rates against many diseases. A CON advantage is also reasonable.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 Good pain threshold for giving birth sure, other pains is quite debatable as most have exceedingly low pain thresholds for everything else in my experience. Some do ofc , but same as men it varies and id definitely give it to men for the averages and for the top no contest. Live longer yes they do, and survival rates vs many diseases is new to me, but many men tend to instinctively shut down when diseased vs women who keep on doing the chores bc of eternal worrying. However, the main thing players want CON for is more Hit Points and to that i disagree a lot more. Whether you see HP as stamina or as health or maybe pain treshold before fainting, it remains so that a man getting whacked with a club vs woman getting whacked with the same club at the same force of impact , i think the man would have the survival advantage on average. And for the absolute top, well thats the same as strength all over again. Maybe a few bonuses on the things you said, that seems reasonable to me, but not extra HP imo.
AD&D was a magical time. It was free of all the woke garbage which infests the game today.
You have exactly 333 subscribers. That's half of 666. That can't be a coincidence 😒 I smell SATANISM.
Jeeze. Summon ONE demon at the table and everyone just assumes you're a Satanist.
OSRIC is a terribly designed book/product. I'll never consider switching again.
"Everyone who doesn't like what I like is just wrong."
AD&D 1e destroyed D&D for me in early 1980's. It took a few years to return to what I liked about D&D the original version of the game & the Holmes 1977/8 Basic Set.
Satanic Panic hit my family in 1985. I am still pissed at Gygax for Eldritch Wizardry & his obsession with demonology. & Psionics? D&D as SF is weird. I was happy the Holmes revision dropped the demonology, psionics & subclasses from game (although I do use Paladin). I prefer idea of non-human race as a class with level & other restrictions.
Many AD&D fans slag off at Brian Blume, but without him their would have been no Boot Hill.
The D&D version that continued with B/X eventually became, with Mentzer version & expansions, just like AD&D 2e. I am not surprised it was discontinued.
It's funny that you are citing Holmes for removing elements of the game that he made extensive use of in his own campaign. He removed those elements of the game because it was a starter set. HP Lovecraft was Holmes' favorite author. He adored Eldrich horror. He also made extensive use of sci-fi in his campaign. He removed these elements from the basic set because it was a BASIC set. They were ALWAYS traditional elements of the game and Holmes embraced them in his campaign.
Blaming Gary Gygax for the Satanic Panic makes no sense to me. Gary Gygax is not responsible for the irrational behavior of ignorant, histrionic idiots. Blaming the people who made and played D&D for the Satanic Panic is no different than blaming the victim for a crime.
AFAIC the only thing TSR and Gygax did wrong during the Satanic Panic was try to placate book burning morons that would never be satisfied with any degree of compromise, thereby displaying the same degree of moral cowardice that WotC is now displaying in the face of the Wokanic Panic.
Chainmail was more traditional, if not essential to D&D, than Eldritch Horrors, SF & Hyperborea. Separate rules sets using the D&D combat system were available that catered to those tastes. Early D&D had a Medieval European setting with its Christian, Nordic & Classic mythological influences. There were no Fish-faced Minions, Banths or Ninja in Monsters & Treasure.
The demonology & psionics never made it to B/X either, so I don't buy the 'starter set' argument.
Your argument about Moral Panic would be more effective if it wasn't informed by your own prejudices. Do you prefer 'Wooden Cross' or 'Holy Symbol' for clerics? Which is more 'traditional' to D&D? Is the Cleric class modeled on Medieval religious Fighting Orders, or Shinto Shrine Maiden? Which is more traditional to D&D? Do you prefer Vicar & Bishop or Blank & Canon in Cleric level titles?
That you think Gygax was a victim is odd considering he delighted in the fact that his business profited from the controversy surrounding the 'Satanic dimensions' of his products.
WoTC is not acting in cowardice in face of Woke mobs. WoTC is wholly owned subsidiary of Hasbro. Hasbro's majority shareholder is Allen Hassenfeld. Hessenfeld is a committed social-liberal & his interest in children's toys design & production is their potential as vehicles for radical social change. He & his family are principal promoters of Wokery & 'Positive Entrepreneurship'. As long as Hasbro owns WoTC, D&D will be captive of extreme political ideologues & be used to promote liberalisation of society.
It's funny you decry Wokery, yet denigrate religionists. I'm a religionist. When the exorcists came to my house to burn my D&D collection, at the time I didn't understand their zeal. I wasn't happy about the burning of my RPGs, but then I was a child. Now I have better understanding - They had been combatting the corrosive influence of radical social liberalism & Neo-Marxism (Wokery) & cultural Satanism since the 1960's - combatting all the social harm radical liberal ideology & cultural Satanism was inflicting on society & their own families. They were becoming desperate, sensitive & extreme because they were losing. You might argue they have lost. That they lost when they started burning copies of The Players Handbook because it was a Grimoire of Spells. You might not like religionists, but they were the only real break against the deluge of depravity, corruption & sadism that dominates & afflicts Western societies today. What is the antidote? More de-Christianisation? In Mentzer's D&D clerics are those committed to an ideal or set of values. For Tim Kask, in 2023 a Paladin can be a NAZI. Moral relativism is insidious.
I understand your confusion. Simple minds are naturally binary thinkers. I tend to see third sides to any argument. There is nothing unusual or inconsistent about my positions on, for example, wokism and religion. Fundamentalism is a sign of stupidity. The nature of your self-righteous certainty is irrelevant. The fact that you believe in your own infallibility to the point that you are willing to force it on others makes you an ass. Period.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561
I force my perspective on others? How am I in a position to do that? I do not have power over individuals.
Resort to insult is characteristic of the simple-minded, the child. It neither endears you nor supports your arguments.
Non-binary thinkers are open to idea of non-binary gender. It is hallmark of the Woke. You are in denial.
Derp. Sorry. I wasn't talking about you, personally. I was referring to the moral brigadiers of the Satanic Panic/Wokescold legions. Forcing their perspective on others is what they're both all about.