Toxic or Not? (500) DAYS OF SUMMER
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Are Tom and Summer toxic… or not?
Licensed therapist Jonathan Decker and filmmaker Alan Seawright take a look at (500) Days of Summer and question if Tom and Summer are toxic or not. In this series, they investigate if movie relationships claimed to be toxic really are and what “toxic” actually means. Jonathan talks about Tom’s immaturity and how it defines his failed relationship with Summer. And Alan talks about the mind-blowing miracle of love.
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Written by: Megan Seawright, Jonathan Decker, and Alan Seawright
Produced by: Jonathan Decker, Megan Seawright, Alan Seawright, and Corinne Demyanovich
Edited by: Emily Colton
Director of Photography: Bradley Olsen
English Transcription by: Anna Preis
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One thing to note is that when Tom was describing things he loved about Summer, he only mentions superficial qualities, such as her eyes and hair. When he was angry with her, he declares that he now hates the same qualities. Part of Tom's arc is realising that Summer is a really person, not a Manic Pixie Dream Girl, and this is solidified when they meet again, and he sincerely wishes her well.
💯
Because Tom is never really listening to her. Whenever she's talking about something serious or talking about her, he's daydreaming about her.
He is in love with an image of a person which he constructs. The image includes external, cognitive, and behavioral (e.g., love him back, appreciate his chivalry, similar tastes in music), and he gets mad when the image and reality don't fit and tries to manipulate her to fit it instead of accepting how she thinks and feels.
Unfortunately we are seeing this in the world. Where many people never get out and never see women as people, only things that they fantasize about to suit their desires of fixations
@@CinemaTherapyShowhey I’m here to ask about what happens to the live?
Number one lesson for a crushing teenager:
"Just cause they like the same bizarro crap you do, doesn't mean they are right for you".
People are significantly more than the things they like.
Having the same goals in life is a better predictor of stability than just liking the same things. Plus, having almost the same moral values, at least.
Starting relationships just cuz "well we share a hobby!" is legitimately a recipe for disaster if you happen to have different paths in life lol. Especially if one is very risky and ambitious or career-oriented, and the other wants a secure and simple comfy life prioritizing family. That combo is the worst
Best to ask
Who do I want to be;
who do you want to be;
Do I have anything to offer you to be the person you want to be;
Do you have anything to offer me to be the person I want to be?
And.. Do we both agree on the above???"
When you're young, and who you want to be is "sexed-up, care-free, and gets to enjoy his hobbies" you can see where the mistakes are made.
@@Kou_kishin I know plenty of people who started just because they share a hobby and a lot of them have great relationships even now. HOWEVER you do need to establish your principles and life goals VERY early on in the relationship to see if it'll stick.
as an autistic person with special interests mostly in tv and movies, i feel very called out by this 😂
It is such a anti rom com it's such a breath of fresh air especially at the time where rom coms were a dime a dozen romanticising toxic relationships such as this. And considering the madness of the marketing of the Colleen Hoover movie out at the minute we still have a ways to go.
YES! That's such a great point. This is the type of relationship that gets romanticized in romcoms, and this movie says "no, let's be more realistic."
@@CinemaTherapyShow Idk, they always both kind of set me off. I hope you guys see this. but there was a great song called "Other people's tongues" by "Dan emery mystery band."
I feel it applies here "other people's tongues have been in our mouth. it doesn't mean we're unclean, it doesn't mean we're bad. it just means we did the best we could with the things we had. Old lovers aren't ghosts they're part of who you are. and your tongues in your mouth and my tongues in my mouth. most of the time."
Can you guys please do the series "moral orel" by dino stamopolous. claymation and literal morals. you guys would love it. Literally everyone in the show needs therapy.
Agreed, even at the beginning, it's pointed out that it's not a Love Story, but a story ABOUT love.
@@trinaq yeah, the movie do to us what Summer does with Tom. Since the begginig telling what is about and we choose to believe other wise 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@michelesantos6159basically
Starting to grow up is realising Tom isn't great. Really growing up is realising that Tom and Summer are both well-meaning, flawed people and are a classic example of avoidant and anxious coming together in a way that is harmful for both, Tom refusing to take responsibility for his own feelings, and Summer refusing to acknowledge the effect she might have on the feelings of others. The difference is, Summer grows quickly enough to be the first one to realise it isn't working.
I actually think there's an argument to be made that they both have the same problem: They both perceive Summer as the "Manic pixie dream girl". Tom perceives her as this because then she's the cute, quirky rom-com girl of his dreams that he refuses to see as anything more complex, and Summer sees herself as that because it allows her to create walls by using her random quirkiness and aloofness to keep people away, which I think is evident by how she gets more sincere throughout the film
As for the ending, I don't buy the interpretation that Tom goes back to square one
I'm not sure if I read the end as going back to square one. I can see it interpreted that way as it's now counting number of days he's known the new girl (winter right? It's been a while since I saw the movie). Atleast my hope was for him, that he learned some things from summer, and was now ready to move on and this was just beginning something new and was finally ready for something other than summer.
@@jamiefrontiera1671Autumn
@@jamiefrontiera1671 The new giri is Autunm I think, which is probably why people interpret it as a reset but I agree that it's more of a hint at his growth through the cycle. He may need a Winter and Spring before he completes his maturing but may be not. Hopfully this one worked out.
@@hotarubinarikoI probably subscribe to this, but I like that any of the possibilities are equally plausible.
@@AnthonyRinguette I totally agree. I think it's good that it's left open ended in that way.
The moment that sticks out to me is when she tells him she doesn't want anything serious and he responds, "We'll take it slow," which indicates that he still expects the relationship to get serious.
In my 20s, I told somebody, "Sure, let's take things slow." He was clearly attracted to me, but there were all sorts of signs that he didn't want a serious relationship with ME. After 3 months, when it's clearly not going anywhere, I said, "So we are just FWB?" I think he felt bad, and started acting like a BF for a month. He called every night, made plans for weekends, but then the dyamic changed, hanging out felt like work for him just to make sure I wasn't seeing other people. I think he was happier when there were "no lables." But these situationships can only last so long, somewhere between 4-6 months in order for people to walk away not too resentful.
Ofc. Why would he gave up on her?
I'm a romantic, a lot like Tom in this movie, but I'll tell you what, I am so glad I've grown up since then. A few years ago, I briefly dated a woman and we seemed to be hitting it off. I really liked her. We didn't perfectly align in terms of interests, but we have similar values and I genuinely wanted to understand her likes and interests. A few weeks into the relationship, she told me she liked spending time with me, but she didn't see see a place for me in her life full-time. She could tell I was becoming attached and wanted to be sure I understood. I asked her if this was something she could imagine changing over time, because I was willing to take things slowly if it might be different some day. She said no, she didn't think it would change. I thanked her for being honest with me. We've remained friends ever since. There is no way 20-something me could have taken her words as anything other than rejection. Older me recognized it as a sign of respect.
And in the end, it was a rejection anyway. And if you or anyone else were in that situation and got heartbroken, that's fine. Respect is nice, but it's not a life partner. But good for you.
@@MCKejmlI hope it’s not your intention but your response sounds very snarky and bitter. The original comment is correct, it’s a sign of growth to not take something like a respectful rejection so painfully. Ask any dating coach, there’s healthy ways to react to rejection, and objectively respectful ways to go about telling someone you don’t think it’ll work out. Not everyone should be utterly heartbroken over every date that doesn’t work out. If that’s the case you probably need to work that issue out with a therapist.
What a mature response!
Good job. It's not the easiest thing hearing something contradictory when it's going great from your end so congratulations on your response and what you took from it. And also good on her for saying it straightforwardly but respectfully so you guys were on the same page. These are the types of interactions that make us better people 🤍
@@MCKejml that's just it. She wasn't looking for a life partner, or at very least she didn't see me as that person for her. I might not have made it clear above, but she did tell me she'd like to continue with what we were already doing, in a casual way. Younger me would have taken her up on that, and like Tom, remained in denial in the vain hope that she'd change her mind. I'm at an age now where we call that "wasting each other's time," and catching feelings meant it's not going to get any easier to break things off later. That's why it was respectful of her to have that conversation with me. She was looking out for my feelings. Decent people do that, even when it's difficult.
He worshipped her, or rather his perception of her without ever getting to really know her. He never asked about her interests. He never really asked about HER in general. We the audience know almost nothing about her. Her whole backstory comes off more like his version of her backstory in his head. She supported his interests, showed interest in architecture, showed she enjoyed some of the same music and such, but he never reciprocated. And she points out at the end how the man she ended up marrying started it all by asking about what she was reading, showed interest in her interests.
she was the one to kiss him, she used him..
💯💯💯
@@afrosamourai400He also used her by not taking a genuine interest in her and expecting a relationship to materialize out of nothing. He objectified her as an imaginary person that didn't even exist. He could not and would not love her for who she really is because he actually despises her.
I agree. He never once took a genuine interest in her or her emotional well being. He put her on a pedestal and they both suffered for it. He gave her no real reason to fall in love with him (other than being infatuated with her). As you say, if he had shown interest in her interests, there would have been a reason to fall in love to a degree. But even then, love is so much more than just shared interests.
@@olive4naito he had every right to despise her, he never asked her to seduce him..she did that to herself Lol, he never used her she was the one who got involved in his life not the opposite.
For me, the “message” of 500 Days (if I have to pick one) is that the worst heartbreak of your life doesn’t mean the end of your life. As a twenty-something single loser, that was a message I needed.
Doesn’t hurt that 500 Days also got me to question some of my own questionable behavior towards women.
I wouldn’t be so sure that you’re a loser.
now that's growth ❤
The fact that you are self-aware tells me you are not a loser. It sounds like you are still figuring out what you want. That's ok. You are on the path of finding out what you want and like for a relationship. There's no time limit.
@@lizziekaptain843Thanks 😊 I’m actually now a forty-something married not-quite-loser, so… progress!!!
@@stephenbradford8524 I'd say that's a win!
Sometimes I watch Cinema Therapy videos despite not having watched the movies. I probably should watch more movies tbh 😂
Yes, but I love it that you watch our episodes anyway! - Jono
Same. Sometimes I watch them and it makes me want to watch a movie I otherwise would have skipped.
@@liljabee Yeah same!! Their videos made me want to see Devil Wears Prada!
OMG I totally, deliberately often watch cinema therapy INSTEAD of the movie! 👍😂 Much more bang for the buck in many cases!
It's also a good way to learn about potential movies to put on my list and see if I want to actually see the movie - which was definitely the case with Promising Young Woman. 👍😮
but this is the best movie of all time tho. its so excellently executed.
I agree that love is less about having similar interests and more about having similar core beliefs and principles. Summer stated very clearly she wasn't interested in a relationship and Tom literally only wanted a relationship. Two people can be great people but awful for eachother.
It’s funny my husband and I have more similar interests and that’s what brought us together and our core beliefs have been very different. Some are the same. A lot are different though. But his wife they didn’t really have any similar interests but their core beliefs were exactly the same. But because of that he never grew and changed and learned like he did with me
Sadly, I've seen how destructive Tom's approach can be. I know someone who wanted a long term relationship and did fail to achieve that with a person who desired being a bachelor.
the problem is, she was the one who seduced him..she should have leave him alone, she's a fuckboi lol she knew he was a desperate romantic and he would have never approached her so she's trash for using him like that.
why did she kiss him? she knew he wanted a real relationship and was in love with her..that's evil
Dating in my 20s, SO many people made the mistake of looking for someone with similar interests. That tended to change as one got older and realized its who the person was, how they treated you and how complimentary they are to you that mattered most. Someone who loves you for exactly who you are rather than loved the same sports team as you, made for a far superior connection.
Something I really love about this film is that it's clear from interviews that the main writer didn't fully understand how in the wrong Tom was (Tom was essentially a self-insert, he wrote this after a tough break up). But JGL and the director were aware.
It gives Tom's character this kind of sincerity and authenticity that we might not have gotten otherwise. We all know a Tom.
oh
no
@@littlemissevel3607 to his credit, in interviews later on he seems to understand. I should have added that. We love growth
Oh we do. Some of us dated a version of him. 🙃
@@Skooskah some of us even recognize ourselves in him.
I was a foolish high school kid once. I got better, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
JGL once again being based
I like the callback of "once you know youll feel it" by Summer telling him the same line he told her early in the relationship.
I like the fact that they both got something out of the relationship. Summer learned to be a little more optimistic and accepting of love and Tom learned to be a little be more realistic and accept that love is not always enough to make a relationship magically work through its problems. And as that line perfectly shows, sometimes you need to experience it for yourself to understand.
i also like that he missed it lol
I find it interesting that in the beginning, Tom is like “well love is real and it just happens and you know,” which is a very non concrete or evidence backed answer, then when Summer gets married he wants a concrete, definitive answer as to why she married someone else, like the “it just happened” response is no longer acceptable since Tom isn’t getting what he wants.
Also, it sucks to be upfront about what you are/aren’t looking for in a relationship and someone is like okay cool that works for me and then they try to flip the script on you. I’ve been in relationships like that, or even had friendships like that and it’s like having the rug pulled out from under you because you realize okay they’ve been lying to me since the beginning and they don’t actually like me as I am because they want to change a very big part of me/ideals/etc. My circle is pretty much nonexistent because of crap like that, I mean how hard is it just to be honest and say yes that’s for me or no I’m not interested.
I think what you're missing is that people don't just lie to others for their own benefit, but they also lie to themselves. A lot of the people you've been with probably told themselves in the moment that they were okay with your demands because they were excited by the prospect of a relationship with you, but as time went on they realized that those things actually mattered to them and, selfish or not, they wanted to try to get you on board with it.
It's just... delusion. It's what people do.
I'm sure I would be no better in that situation, even though I know the problem and can see it. A chance to be with someone I really like would probably blind me to the faults in the relationship and the lack of a concrete foundation. You have to make a lot of mistakes before you really learn, I guess. Personal experience most of all.
Agree, and you can still have a relationship with them, not a romantic one but you can still be friends and just exist in an outer layer of the circles
How hard? Very hard.
I had a guy do that to me once. I was relieved because it was an obvious dealbreaker for me and I was already really uncertain about the relationship. 😅
That last little bit, while not really like this movie, reminds me of the whole concept of the "friend zone". It's the false pretenses that really suck and people really underestimate how much that can mess with a person.
I appreciate Jonathan's nuanced take on going to bed without discussing something. I HATE the advice "never go to bed angry". It's terrible advice because sometimes you need time to calm down and reflect for yourself before you can have a productive discussion. And sometimes fights start at 10 pm and there's no time for that. Plus if you're neurodivergent it can be even worse. It takes me a long time to understand how I feel because my adhd gives me so many overlapping thoughts that it's really hard to articulate just a single thing. I need to reflect and sleeping often brings me so much clarity. I appreciate someone saying that sometimes it's ok and sometimes it's not.
As an autistic gal, I barely have fights with my boyfriend. But a couple of weeks ago, my employer became angry at me. He stated out loud his thoughts, and I listened and nodded. As I walked, I said,'Thanks for your honesty. We'll talk more about it tomorrow. He was like,'Are you serious? Didn't you hear me?' He was so loud and honest heard it all. Lol!
"Yep. I heard you loud and clear. But I need to organize and decluttter my head tonight over my journal before responding to you. With that being said, good night" The next day, we had a more productive conversation. Some NTs don't understand that Autistics; we take in a lot of information throughout the day. Our minds are racing fast. We are at 126 Miles per Minute. We need to go home, rest, organize thoughts, draw something, or whatever we do at night to unload all that whole day of info dumping on us.
✌️ 📚
Sometimes people just need sleep too, being cranky can cause fights
@MoonWomanStudios Exactly, whether you are an NT or ND. We need rest or time overnight to de-stress or declutter our minds. Once you are fully recharged I the morning, you can have a clear and honest conversation without being cranky. 😊
There's an old Russian saying: "The morning is wiser than the evening." Sometimes you just need that rest time.
“Be careful that your subjective perception is not confused with objective reality.”
Words to live by.
Well said Mr. Decker.
an objective reality in this sense doesn't exist. reality is a combination of everyones subjective perceptions.
The thing that I think often gets missed in talking about this movie:
12:44 "she wants to keep it casual... _deep breath_ ... which is why she's in my bedroom right now."
They are not necessarily trying to mislead one another, but they are experiencing a fundamental lapse in communication. It's clear that he's not sure what "casual" means to her, and to him, sleeping together is NOT casual, and that's OK. They don't have to agree on values, but if they took the time to actually talk about what they meant, they would probably find out just how fundamentally incompatible their intentions are.
He starts off with the interpretation of "casual" as "take it slow," and when she responds with "no pressure," he thinks she means no pressure to progress into further intimacy. On her side, she is trying to explain that she is comfortable with physical and mental intimacy so long as he doesn't expect to receive emotional intimacy on the same level. This is why he perceives her actions as sending mixed signals.
my problem with her is she knew exactly what he wanted, and she was still the one that seduced him...that's problematic at least.
@@afrosamourai400 from her perspective, the seduction was purely physical and mental. She enjoyed being with him (you could say using him), but she didn't want to have any responsibility to him. On the flip side, she was comfortable giving him freedom to enjoy her (again, use her) without any responsibility to her.
I don't think that her treatment of physical intimacy as though it's a game that two people can casually play together and then go their separate ways without any emotional connection is healthy, especially because it wasn't a strictly physical relationship, but that is based on my own values, and there are certainly many people who feel the same way as she does.
Mind you, I'm not personally prepared to embrace moral relativism, and I won't say that she did nothing wrong; on the other hand, I have the humility to acknowledge that I am nobody else's judge, and instead I choose to look at her with empathy, recognizing the reasons why she believes what she believes while simultaneously letting this be a lesson to guard my own heart from growing attachment to anyone who isn't clear in their intention to reciprocate that connection. It also helps that I'm no longer looking for anyone, since I have been happily married for over a decade at this point.
@@afrosamourai400 I mean, he said he was cool with a casual relationship. Her understanding was that he was ok with what was happening, and he tries as long as he can to keep up the front that he is ok with it, because he doesn't want to lose her by being honest with what he wants, and he thinks that as long as he can keep up this front for long enough, she'll fall in love with him for real.
She realizes what's happening eventually (and maybe she'd known for a while but had been lying to herself, since she has pretty strong avoidant tendencies), so she breaks up with him.
@@rizahawkeyepierce1380 she knew from the start he was not a casual guy, come on lol..she knew who he was, she was the worse type of hypocrite, the type who pretends to not know they are toxic..asking a guy you know and have been told is in love with you to keep it casual is just evil..leave him alone, no kiss no sex!
@@afrosamourai400 you really sound like a 20-something guy who has just been dumped and is bitter… hope you are not but anyway - there are always two ppl in a whatever-kind-of-relationship and we can presume to know something about someone but it takes years to really know anybody and when they are lying even to themselves… so, Summer and Tom actually don’t know each-other and they both behave immaturely. Relax and always check the behavior of both parties…
in 2009 I watched this movie as a 17 year old and it forever changed how I viewed relationships and my role. helped me understand that I was also a problem and it wasnt all my partners faults as to why things ended. this will forever be my #1 and my favorite movie of all time.
Oh my god same! I was also 17 in 2009 or 2010 when I saw this for the first time. It completely reshaped how I saw my early teen relationships and helped me through and into adulthood too.
Toxicity aside, love is indeed a miracle. I moved to a different country with my boyfriend at the time, determinedly chose to stay and rebuild my life here after the breakup, and met my now husband years later. I followed love, lost love, and amazingly found the love of my life 🥰
That's amazing!
@@cappygurl Thank you! I'm so grateful that staying here was the right choice, and that I found him here 😊
I remember watching this when I was younger and was unsatisfied by her answer to Tom at at the end "I woke up one day and I knew.... What I was never sure of with you"
Then one break up and marriage later I FELT it.
The person I am married to RESPECTS me, INSPIRES me, and CARES for me; all mutually. And with realizing that, I understood truly what love is
Can you do a deep dive on 27 Dresses? The main character seems to be a people pleaser and I'd love to hear your thoughts on her character arch!
ooh dude, yes this is a pretty fun choice! seeing you comment reminded me that I should watch that in one sitting instead of with commercial breaks.
The main character is a covert narcissist and an individual addicted to a self victimizing, self pitying minded. There are so many movies like that that feel like Hollywood didn't have any good ideas (or didn't think the good ones had enough commercial potential to bother to make) so Hollywood ends up making contrived drivel like that.
That one really shows how important it is to not sacrifice yourself all the time for others. That, sometimes, it's okay to have healthy boundaries.
Umm YES!!!
Yes! But be a little more nuance (?), I mean not put the little sister as the devil and the older one as a saint, the older one had unhealthy coping mechanisms like the need to be needed and expressing herself as if she were better than everyone and the little sister was still supportive but also as much as a people pleaser as the older one but she expressed it by changing everything about her for other people. I'll still slap the shirt out of her if she even dared to think on changing anything of their mother's dress tho.
ALSO: Plenty of people simply prefer being on their own, it does not always need to be born from trauma, and you may not need to 'heal' and then you will want partnership. It's just a choice for every person, and there's no right answer. I've been in relationships, I've been single, there's upsides and downsides to both. Right now, my ideal life is a single life. That may change with time, that may not. Just do you, everybody. 🙂
A friend of mine explained it as people being 1's or 2's and I found that very helpful. I am completely a 1. I make sure I don't lead people into thinking there could be more when being with someone day in and day out would drive me insane.
then why did she kiss him knowing he was not her type?
No. You are not the ancestors of people who preference was solitude. It's always born from trauma. Either personal or witnessing it.
Just because you don't like being alone, doesn't mean other people don't as well. Everyone is different@@MylesKillis
@@afrosamourai400
oh please just stop grow up
I always loved this movie because it accurately shows how trying to "force" someone into a relationship with you (romantic, friend, et cetera) just makes everyone involved miserable. Even Tom is suffering along with Summer. So it is not worth it.
People talking about whether Tom or Summer are the “bad guy” miss the point of the movie entirely. It’s a realistic relationship bt realistic people portrayed in a realistic way. That last talk on the bench really hammers home the gist of the movie.
Exactly, there is no "bad guy" in a relationship. There are two. Or none, if you want to view it optimistically.
Tom's naive and selfish and Summer is willfully ignorant and selfish. They're both human and they both had a bit of growing up to do. I'm not sure if Summer ever really did, though, but maybe Tom didn't either. He mostly just seemed crushed to me at the end of the movie, like he had lost his belief in love and his optimism.
I just left it as they weren't meant to be, at least definitely not at this point. I don't know what younger me would have thought. 🤔🤷♀️
@@cc1k435 younger me thought that they were both pathetic. Now, looking at this older, she is absolutely stupid. And clearly oblivious to the amount of pain she causes everyone around her.
i disagree, she was the bad guy litteraly a fuckboi lol she knew he wanted a romantic relationship and was in love with her but she still kissed him, she's the problem, he would have never got the courage to approach her romantically..she used him.
There are definitely a “bad guy” in some relationships in real life. And the director of the movie have said that tom is the “bad guy” so yeah.
“Insert derogatory gender-based slur” had me cackling for a solid 60 seconds.
TIME TO DO SOME THERAPY AT THE CINEMA
Panic at the disco? More like therapy at the cinema amirite
I love how, in the end, when he meets Autumn, their connection goes beyond just a shared love for films. It’s not just about common interests; there’s a deeper bond rooted in simplicity and an appreciation for timeless things. The moment with comment about the bench and the view with too many parking lots-highlights how they both value the beauty in the simple and the classic, even in a world that might overlook it.
it's still superficial tho..it's not about values or what they want in life lol
@@afrosamourai400he literally said they both value simplicity
@@afrosamourai400
you’re superficial af
"When you're looking at someone through rose-colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags". That doesn't have to mean the red flags are from the person, as a person. They can be red flags from as person, as YOUR person. Like, I needed someone that loved animals, and was cool with pets. It doesn't make a person a bad person to not want the responsibility of caring for an animal, but for my partner it wouldn't work. It would have been a red flag for a long term relationship.
i remember watching this movie for the first time in high school and crying so much because they didn't end up together. watching it later in life, after various relationships where sometimes i was more of a "summer" and sometimes i was more of a "tom," it totally makes sense to me that they don't end up together. there are so many little moments where you can see the disconnect between them; for example, right before tom gets into the fight with that guy at the bar, they're having a conversation where tom is complaining about the way women dress nowadays, and summer says, with a subtly annoyed face, "some people like it" and he responds "i like how you dress" - obviously this could be just a passing moment of conversation between a couple, but in context of the movie i think it indicates the fundamentally different world views the two of them have. summer responds with her opinion on what he's saying, and tom doesn't actually directly engage with her opinion - he just redirects the conversation to his opinion.
he's so busy thinking about how much he wants to connect to her that he isn't actually listening to the things she says or things about her that are different from him, or even incompatible with him. we see this again in the scene where they're in her bedroom and she's telling him something she's "never told anyone before", but we don't get to hear what she's saying because all Tom can think about is how he's finally breaking down her walls. part of tom's attraction to summer is because she represents much of what he's missing from his life; adventure, free-spiritedness, etc. summer ultimately falls for a man who was brave enough to go up to her in a coffee shop and ask her about the book she's reading - something tom would likely never do.
obviously they had great chemistry with each other and many similar interests, but i think in terms of compatibility they were not in line, and tom was too blinded by his idealization of summer to see that. i have been in tom's position before so i completely understand how that can feel so overwhelming emotionally, but at the same time having been in summer position before too, i know how uncomfortable that can be when you know someone has all these expectations for you and who you are.
I watched this movie in my twenties, during a bad break up. Growing up for me meant that I had to see how much like Tom I was and how unlikable I was being towards my ex.
The lil speech abt love being a miracle was so cute made me cry
There is a really great deleted scene where Tom goes on a date with another woman. He complains about Summer the entire date and the woman asks him questions like, did she ever cheat on you, take advantage of you, and Summer told you at the beginning that she didn’t want a boyfriend. Tom agrees with everything and she says “gee Tom, did Summer break your heart or did you?” And that is why this entire film is Tom’s fault.
if she didn't want a boyfriend what did she kiss him? she knew he wanted a girlfriend right? what did she approach him?
@@afrosamourai400
no wonder why I tend
to hate too many questions especially if directed at me
Tom's fault? Geez, who hurt you?
As someone with the biggest crush on Zooey Deschanel, I went into this movie rooting for Tom. I of course now know how wrong he was, even if I still fall into some of his same habits. Even JGL knows Tom was mostly in the wrong.
Even now that she had all the plastic surgery and looks so odd?
@@Joshua-dx7zn sorry what? she looks almost the same
@@Joshua-dx7zn Had to look her up, and honestly she doesn't look bad. I thought she may have crossed into uncanny valley territory.
I still have a crush on her (and she is one of my trans goals), but watching this movie lately made me feel like I was both Tom and Summer at once.
I see both their perspectives, and how flawed they were. How their relationship was doomed from the start, yet how that heartbreak made them mature as people.
I love this film. It’s one of my all time favourite “chick flicks”. I’ve always been sympathetic to both characters. They’re so lovingly portrayed as people. Flawed, naive people. I don’t think their relationship is toxic, because they took more from it than just their trauma and how to recognise and recover from that trauma. They grew as people. Summer learned she could love, and Tom learned to define himself not through his relationship, but through his own personal journey and actions. Just like Summer, this film is very up front that it is NOT a love story, but it is about love. And I love it for it.
It’s not a chick flick. It’s a coming of age film.
Definitely not a "chick flick". Like Charlene said, it's a coming-of-age film, hence why the two characters are so immature.
That being said, it's a little hard to call it that because I don't really feel like they did grow all that much, or at least the movie doesn't make it clear enough. Tom mostly just seemed hurt by the end and Summer moved on to someone she actually wanted to be married to, which is a kind of progress for her, sure, but it doesn't show that she's become mature, necessarily, as she will likely make a ton of new and maybe even similar mistakes with her fiance/husband.
Great vid! When this movie came out, I never understood why everyone said it was so romantic, etc. The thing with Summer is that she does what she wants & is open with everyone about that. In turn she expects everyone to be similarly open with her. If Tom didn’t want casual, she expected him to tell her. If Tom didn’t want to dance with her or if he knew it would hurt him, she expected him to decline. And yes, in that way she avoids considering the consequences of her actions.
This is 100% correct.
I don't think it was the case, that she just did what she wanted without any consideration for others, that was just Tom's perception of her because he felt hurt by her, due to his unmet expectations that he perceived as rejection from her.
I think she was very conflicted and considerate about his feelings. She wanted him as a friend, not because she didn't like him, but because she liked him too much to just treat him like another lover and lose him due to romantic drama. She was hurt by her previous relationships, because she felt objectified and used before so much, that it left her cynical about love and romance in general and she felt like she had to abandon her family and her whole previous life and move far away to heal herself and become her own person first, before she could get seriously committed to anyone again. She did her best to explain that to Tom, but only heard what he wanted to hear, he didn't get out of his way to ask her more questions and to understand her perspective. She said she didn't want to be just someone else's girlfriend and that "people's feelings just get hurt" by romantic relationships, suggesting that she didn't want to hurt anybody and she didn't want to get hurt herself by a partner. She was open to having her mind changed, she wanted to have deeper discussions about love and life in general, because she always asked more questions to keep most conversations going, but they were usually cut short by Tom's statements and lack of curiosity. She only didn't want to talk about her past relationship breakups and she didn't want to talk about any relationship goals and issues when she felt threatened by Tom's passive-agressive demands or completely aggressive attitude. Maybe she wasn't the best communicator, but she was very mindful with her words while talking to Tom. She never wanted to hurt or antagonise him and she never snapped back at him the way he snapped at her.
I think the actress did a phenomenal job showing how Tom disappointed her over and over again, breaking her heart by a thousand tiny cuts, without having any lines to verbalise her feelings, because the point of the film was to filter everything through Tom's point of view. All her internal conflicts and pain was brilliantly portrayed by her body language and facial expressions alone and all the context we get about her motivations, has to be drawn form background images and reading between the lines of her very limited dialogue parts. Even though I could understand Toms point of view, cheer for him and feel for him, I could relate to Summer much more due to very hurtful and disappointing romantic experiences where I felt like I was put into some tiny box of someone else's projections that didn't have much to do with who I really was, but there never was enough space for me to show my reality or explain anything, because everything that didn't fit into the limited perceptions of the other person, was just dismissed due to a lack of curiosity, like there was no real desire in my partner to understand me on a deeper level, because was supposed to just fill a shallow role for the comfort and convenience of the other person. Her sad reality and loneliness that was never acknowledged due to the outside projections and the bubbly rose colored filter, that she was perceived through, resonated a lot with me and it was disturbing. She was never allowed to be a full person. She was doubting herself a lot and she did her best to not hurt anyone with her words, there were many scenes where Summer was visibly holding herself back from saying something in the moment, because she didn't want to cause any unnecessary hurt and she would hold her pain in silence. Tom didn't have that kind of consideration.
When it comes to the scene where Tom accused her of only doing what she wants, I didn't read it that way. It was just another projection of his hurt, that she didn't respond to, because it was more important to show him kindness and acceptance in that moment. Consider the context, he asked her why she would dance with him at a friend's wedding and she simply answered "because I wanted to". He made it mean, that she was playing with his feelings intentionally and leading him on and that she was inconsiderate and all of that... But from her perspective, why wouldn't she dance with her friend at a wedding? He was her friend, it was a wedding and she wanted to dance, because that is exactly what you would do at a wedding party to celebrate the occasion, and not disappoint the newlyweds. People dance at wedding events and it usually doesn't have anything to do with flirting and looking for romance. People dance with children and uncles and grannies and relatives and strangers, because that's what you do to celebrate the event. You do your best to enjoy the event to show your support of the new union, which is a very important life event to your friend. You don't want the married couple to see you sitting around being sad. What would be the point of showing up if you didn't do everything you can to be relaxed and joyful at the event? She didn't go out of her way to flirt with any other people. It wasn't like she went clubbing to hook up with someone. It was a wedding of a mutual friend and both Summer and Tom were determined to attend the wedding independent of each other and with no other person to accompany them, so it just made sense for them talk and dance together at the party. If she danced with some grandpa, or with a child, would Tom also accuse her of flirting and playing with people's feelings? I hope not. It was just another projection of his hurt and expectations without much consideration for the broader context. What else was she supposed to do? Ignore him for the whole time? Pretend she didn't see him for the whole event, like some immature teenager? Sit down, not talk to anyone and look miserable? What exactly was it that she could do, that wouldn't trigger Tom in some way? Was she supposed to get out of the train when she saw him and get back home, never showing up at the wedding? Was she supposed to just show up for the wedding ceremony and leave immediately after that?
Whatever she would choose to do, Tom would probably still feel tormented by her, because it wasn't about what she did. I was about his perceptions and expectations. Anything short of her fitting his expectation exactly like he imagined, would be perceived negatively by him and that was it. She wasn't a real person to him, she was just a fantasy and there was nothing she could do to show him that she was a real person, no kind words or gestures that would satisfy him, no vulnerability that he would honor and reciprocate.He wasn't ready and open enough to accept her as a real person.
This actually reminded me of my last relationship. She told me at the beginning that she only wanted something casual, although we were already emotionally close at that point. I hoped for a relationship, but thought that casual would be fine. The only difference here is that I did actually sit down and have that conversation with her where I shared my feelings with her, and we ended up agreeing to be in a relationship.
I don't mind that she explained what happened the way she did at the end because he literally was pushing for an answer and very passive-aggressively blaming her for her change of heart. She looked so uncomfortable and while he accused her of just doing what she wants, he was also ignoring the signs of her discomfort (as he had throughout their relationship) and saying whatever he wanted with zero consideration for her feelings.
I completely agree. I already explained that in another comment thread above. I think the acting was so great, considering that Summer didn't have many lines as a character, so everything about her internal struggles, motivations and her past had to be shown visually through background clues, body language and facial expressions. She did so well in that role, it was a very difficult task to show all her disappointment and hurt throughout the whole script, only through nuanced gestures and micro-expressions. The constant cringe kept me on edge the whole time.
made mistake watching this on a first date
I went to see Gone Girl as my worst date movie experience. Awkward!
I got dumped by my 6 yrs together boyfriend in my 20's. My best friend thought it was a great idea to take me out to watch The Notebook. 😐
Mine told me "When I was your man" after an ex started dating someone new in high-school 😅. I guess a lot of us have "that friend" @@SalznPfeffer658
Ooh nooooo!!!! 👁️👄👁️🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yeah an ex of mine was so angry when I told him I related to Summer 😅 he took it personally lol
One of my favorite lines is one of my favorite songs says "I'm caught between who I am and who you wish I was," and oh how this rings true for this movie!
They both should have defined their boundaries of what qualified as "casual" and "relationship", to see if their definitions were compatible.
To me, this movie is about that relationship you have to go through to be ready for the right one.
Love vs lust is an easy answer to find but difficult to accept. Love is "I want you to be happy even if that means being with someone else." Lust is, "I want you to be happy if that means you give me the gratification I want." Tom may want to be happy, but a good relationship means prioritizing someone else's joy.
There are only two good reasons to leave a relationship. (A) If they're abusive or (B) you don't share the same values and principles.
>"I want you to be happy even if that means being with someone else."
What does this even mean? Girlfriend cheats on you? That's okay, I have to let you go because you want to be that person. That's lOvE on my part.
I don't quite agree that prioritizing someone else's joy means having a good relationship. Instead it would be to derive one's own happiness from making the partner happy. If you are giving up your own happiness for your partner, and are constantly miserable because of this, it's also not a good situation to be in. it would be too one-sided.
In a good relationship, you should be able to share happiness as well as misery with your partner. Be happy when they are happy; support them when they are feeling miserable; and vice versa.
@@standard7272 I agree only one partner prioritizing their partner's joy would be a bad idea. Someone needs to be their own person before spending their life with someone else. You want to accommodate their emotional needs in a joyful relationship, but it only works if both people do it.
@@standard7272 I think it’s good to prioritize your partners Joy, but you have to make sure that they are on the same page with you about that. If they are there just to take and not to give, it’s a toxic relationship.
@@purelightapologetics4930 that's exactly what she was doing, take and not give.
I'm loving these toxic or not episodes!
Yay thanks!
@@CinemaTherapyShowcan I say I love you saying that just because the relationship is working doesn't mean it's completely toxic. I love the noxious fumes imagery.
Me too!
"I think there are people that help you become the person that you end up being, and you can be grateful for them even if they were never meant to be in your life forever.” -Dian from Bojack Horseman
The best definition of 'toxic' that I've heard: something that promises pleasure but actually brings you pain
then life itself is toxic right?
@@afrosamourai400 yea. Also therapy. Get it please
@@afrosamourai400then your misogynistic woman hating sexism is disgustingly toxic
Alan's point about the hand holding not being casual is totally valid. As someone who has lived Tom's life, when the person who just told you they're not looking for someone' takes your hand, it fires off all the wrong signals, because that, at least to me, is a commitment thing. Holding hands is more than just, well, holding hands. At least, that's what I think. That moment can fill a person with joy, but also a false sense of hope.
Something I want to point out that our internet dads overlooked: people can be aromantic. You can still love people and want to have meaningful relationships with people even if you never feel a romantic attraction. That is completely fine.
then leave them alone..
@@afrosamourai400
YOU leave em alone
"Love is a miracle that always happens to other people."
That has been my motto once I realized loves does exist but sometimes never happens to some people.
@@nalublackwater9729 “I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think that they will sing to me.” - Eliot
that's true as hell lol
13:25 I like the how the focus is steadily blurring Summer out and focusing on Tom for at least 15 seconds while *she* is the one talking in this scene. He wasn't even focusing on what she's saying. shows how the story is told from Tom's perspective (brilliantly done from the filmmakers), and boy, is he an unreliable narrator
Believe people when they tell you who they are tho
13:45 THAT describes me and my relationship with my husband 100%. When I met him I was very closed to the idea of a relationship, but I gave him a chance and it was the best decision of my life. Through caring, love, and commitment he showed me I could trust him and trust in US. 13 years later we are still together and married ❤
Attempt #(8) of asking for Spirit : Stallion of the Cimarron!! Was my absolute childhood movie growing up and the filmmaking is so beautiful with amazing scores and concepts of loss and staying true to once nature even in the face of adversity!
It's such a great film!! And one of the few horse films from the horse's perspective (and not child was orphaned, moved to farm and saved farm by taming a feral horse).
Still my favorite animated film!!!
Just showed this to my stepdaughter, she loved it! Saving all my DVDs from childhood came in handy. 👌🏻
I just watched this movie the other day and immediately wondered if there was a CT episode on it. Immaculate timing 😂
Indeed!
One of my fav horror movies
HORROR MOVIE IS CRAZY
Scrolled down too much to find this.
This movie is a great illustration of why picking someone with your same goals and values is the most important thing in who you pick as your partner. It doesn't matter how attractive they are or how well you get along with them (or how many common interests you have with them) if you don't share the same goals and values.
If you don't share the same goals/values the relationship will fall apart
Yep
My ex-boyfriend (of 8+ years) made the "you're not the only only with a say in this" statement when I said i wanted to break up, and genuinely thought that a couple could not breakup if one part didn't want to. It makes me so mad when I hear that coming out of Tom or anyone else
you're immature.
@@youknowyouwilldespisethis7118 A relationship requires mutual consent. If consent is withdrawn on one side, attempting to continue violates that person's autonomy. Ana is _not_ being remotely immature.
@@youknowyouwilldespisethis7118 That’s so out of pocket, why would you call this person immature??? If anything is immature, it’s thinking that you can veto someone’s decision to break up with you.
Hey now, aromantic and asexual people exist too. It's fair to say, "I don't think I've ever felt that way", it's not right for him to imply that she hasn't experienced enough yet, that she needs to be "fixed" in that way. It's super frustrating to see over and over again in media, the idea that people are broken if they are single and happy.
💜
I haven't seen this movie since it came out, but from the first half of the clips they showed, she was coming across as aromantic to me. Then she got married, and I said, "AAAAAAAND there's the Hollywood BS that everyone needs to find love to be happy." Aromantic woman here, heading into my late thirties, and I have never felt the need to be with someone to give my life meaning.
@@JuliaZeeGreat Yeah, I'm asexual and even I could see the aromantic signs of "this is my boundary, all you have to do is respect that" at the beginning too. Gross it had to end with his "lesson" being after she changed but it's not like that's unreasonable, it's just overly represented in Hollywood. =\
Also, good for you, I'm here for my fellow a-spec siblings to live the life they want to live without the stupid judgements of everyone trying to white knight them!
I think part of the challenge for us non-aro people who might have been raised with either too much pop culture around romance and / or conservative culture around sex and romance and emotional intimacy is separating all of those components. For me personally, I’ll confess that physical intimacy is deeply emotional and romantic for me, and if I were a guy, and bought into the stereotype of women being more emotionally oriented towards sex, then I might have a hard time squaring her physical involvement and lack of romantic desire. And as someone raised in a conservative culture around sex, even though I know that there’s a difference between lack of sexual desire and “inability” to act on it, that sort of cultural suppression and demonization of sexual desire makes minimizing it convenient, which in turn makes it easier to understand asexuality than aromanticism (particularly aromanticism coexisting with sexual desire and engagement). And it’d probably take talking to someone or reading about it to realize that, which probably didn’t exist much when the movie came out (much less Tom being the type of guy who’d truly listen to and understand those perspectives - that’s a whole other ball game lol).
All that being said, ofc you’re right and people exist all across the spectrum of romantic and sexual attraction, but (especially since the movie does show her ending up with someone and feeling that way for “the right” person) without the vocab to describe it, it can be a bit nebulous if someone just describes it as “never having felt that way”.
P.S. my culture is also very restrictive around dating until you’re marriage age, at least traditionally 😂 (although that’s changing, but still yk), so since we’re not even allowed to explore that meaningfully, “I’ve never felt that way” wouldn’t necessarily be a slam dunk that they couldn’t feel that way. And then ofc there’s the stereotypical guy player who sleeps around but then DOES fall in love and settle down (and I’ve scoured enough of breakup internet to hear too many sad stories about guys who turn around and become serious and devoted to “the next one”).
Anyways, sorry for the rambling! And hopefully nothing I said came off as dismissive or invalidating! I do think that having vocabulary like aromantic or asexual is helpful in better conveying the sentiment that “this is not something I expect to change” (although totally valid if does as well!). Just some rambling thoughts lol.
@onedirectionlover317 I think you were very respectful!
I didn't know until I was thirty that I was asexual aromantic, so you're super right that at the time this movie came out, that kind of awareness just didn't exist. It wasn't represented because people just didn't know it was a thing. I certainly didn't.
All I knew was that I didn't feel the way other people did, and I didn't know why. Maybe if there had been movies in my youth and young adult days that portrayed something other than love, romance and sex being the be-all end-all, maybe I wouldn't have spent so much time thinking there was something wrong with me.
While the movie doesn't address aromanticism, nor does it have to, considering the age and the ultimate message of the movie, I do think it's worth bringing up in a modern-day discussion.
I had a situation like this where just before Covid, I had an ex in the States who wanted me to visit her in Colorado for a hookup. She had cheated before and I hadn't got over it, but I wanted to, I wanted to get back together and I remember telling her id think about it. I contacted her told I couldn't do this, because deep down I still loved her still. She didn't understand why we couldn't just hook up and I asked why couldn't we start over and she said she wasn't interested in love or a relationship and that her career came first. Then not even a year later I saw on social media is that she was married. I desperately wanted to contact her with outrage at what seemed to me was a 180 and I just realized there were problems with me, the relationship wasn't perfect, she had traits that were uncaring and callous and I realized...it just wasn't meant to be and all I could take from it was how could I be better. Great stuff.
It's about damn time guys...bravo 👏🏾
I find it fascinating how everyone’s perspectives on divorce and how it affects their view of love is different. When my parents divorced, I always thought that my siblings and I were proof that at one time my parents were truly in love and devoted. They just didn’t have the tools to love each other the way they needed. I was always such an optimistic and thoughtful kid, as well as a hopeless romantic. And I feel that is what shaped how I viewed my parents divorce. My idealism saved me from what could have been a very traumatic time in my life. Not to say it wasn’t difficult on us. But, at least we knew we were raised in a loving home at one point.
Thank you for this. I’ve requested this film for so long! The storytelling device was ahead of its time. Not only is it still referenced, but it’s amazing to see how people have come back to this film with a changed perspective over time as they themselves gone on to have further experiences in their own life.
You're very welcome! Thanks for watching!
I love Alan’s thoughts about love being a miracle. It’s such a unique perspective that I haven’t heard myself before.
I love that the Director mentioned the bench conversation could or could not have actually happened because it's what everyone wishes could happen in a break up, some closure, it's up to us to decide whether or not it did take place.
"Love arrives exactly when love is supposed to, and love leaves exactly when love must"
22:23 I haven’t rewatched this movie in almost 2 decades now, but this scene now makes me tear up…I met my husband when he was a cart pusher at Walmart, he happened to come up to my car as I was loading in groceries and we had known each other years prior but lost touch - we reconnected that day, and have been together every day ever since 💖
I like the term I’ve heard of when relationships in dating fail that you didn’t really “fail” because you couldn’t get to the destination you initially wanted with them, instead, look at it as you simply made the right choice.
You tried it out, you saw things you couldn’t find a way around or didn’t align right, or saw things that possibly could’ve lead you both to further pain if it continued, and thus made the right choice for you and for them to end the chapter there.
It may hurt at the time, but you can have some comfort knowing you (or the other person) ultimately made the right choice for the both of you. You aren’t a failure, you simply learned what you needed to learn, faced reality, and adjusted accordingly.
I love this movie. I'd only push back on the comments about Tom being "young and immature" or sometimes just called "young" to explain his actions. 20-something is old enough to be more self-aware. Tom's friends are more mature and the same age, his sister is more mature and much younger. My husband and I were in our 20s when we started dating; I was in my early 20s and had not been in a serious relationship. But we were honest with ourselves and each other because we had learned from other life lessons and relationships. Even if you're even younger, even too young to get married, you can still be mature enough for a healthy relationship with honesty, boundaries, and connection.
I like this new section! Would like to see more with so many other movies. Theres so many toxic romcom that it may help to educate about whats toxic and what not, and also, why something might not be good (for you) even when it isnt toxic. I think thats where many ppl get confused (probably young me included lol)
Wait, Matthew Gray Gubler is in this movie?! Okay that's my excuse to go watch it.
It’s been years since I’ve seen the movie, but if I remember correctly MGG’s character is in a healthy relationship and he tries to be the voice of reason to Tom. I didn’t realize he was in it when I first saw it but was delighted to see him because I love him.
She was clear about everything the whole time. She also wanted to be in love with him but couldn't. She was definitely sad that she could not fall in love with him. So she loved him as a friend, which was the only love she was able to offer and when she danced with him she knew this might hurt him but also it made her happy because for a moment he had what made him happy and she was dancing with her friend.
She clearly experiences romantic attraction less often than the average person and that is not a choice. It is what it is. And that means that it is difficult to comprehend what life is for other people. Maybe she was very sad she did not get to see him because he was so in love with her that she could not see him. Maybe she needed her friend. She was just sad she could not love him but could not bring herself to say it because it was too sad to say. Maybe she wanted him to be happy but could not do better.
I've only watched this movie a handful of times over the years, and I love that I always finish it feeling differently about what I just watched. When I was a teen, I was heartbroken for Tom. Then in my early twenties, I related so hard to Summer. Now in my 30s I just feel for those confused kids. Such a great movie.
I never believed in love until I found my first. We parted ways but I'm forever grateful for what it taught me.
Omg I clicked AS SOON AS I SAW THE NOTIFICATION!!!! AAAAA I'M SO EXCITED TO WATCH THIS!!!! ❤❤❤
We hope you enjoy it!
Earliest I’ve ever been to a cinema therapy vid!! 🤗
In my last therapy session, we talked about how well I handled a conflict situation. She asked, "That's great! How did you know to use that skill?" And I said "I watch Cinema Therapy."
One thing that always comes to mind when I watch this movie, is how much of human communication in nonverbal. She clearly says with words that she doesn't want a relationship, but then she does a bunch of small actions that indicate that she wants something more. Like, if she doesn't want a relationship, maybe she shouldn't be telling him personal secrets? She doesn't want a relationship - maybe she shouldn't go on a date to IKEA which feels like its about building a life and a house together?
Anyway, it goes both ways because he also says he's ok being casual, but his actions speak otherwise.
I think people that don't take into account their non-verbal communication when communicating what they want are .... not great people. Sometimes it can feel manipulative.
These characters are in their young twenties. And what I’ve learned about my time being that age is that while twenty something year olds are adults, doesn’t mean they are going to be making wise decisions. Not saying accountability is excused in real life, but I have to remember twenty something brains are still developing.
10000%
Oh so unlike him she’s honest and maybe actions probably don’t always speak much louder than words
@@noorbohamad5796 If you care about other people, you will realize that actions may speak louder than words to others, and act accordingly.
What would be the motivation to ever send mixed signals and demand other people that they ought to be ok with it?
@@noorbohamad5796 If you care about other people, it would be something you consider. I can't think of a reason for demanding that other people accept mixed signals.
I recently watched this. It's always a different perspective depending where you are in life right now
While I don't remember where I heard this but, this movie reminds my of this advice I heard once, there's a difference between being in love and being in love with the idea of love.
Just clicked the vid, the answer is toxic though.
😂😂😂 Love it, so true though.
The writer of the movie was so astonished that people didn't take his side... like, dude.. grow up.
@@lilunette9319 That's like how the director of Force Majeure was shocked people weren't siding with the dad.
You beat me to it lol
@@lilunette9319 was it an article or interview? I want to see it. Still would disagree though
As an aromantic, the intricacies of these types of stories are equally fascinating and baffling to me
"Our capacity to love grows as we grow" -- Jonathan Decker, licensed genius
As someone who also has avoidant attachment style, i relate so much to summer
"There are fumes"😂 so the are toxic they way bleach and vinegar are toxic - by themselves probably fine, but if you combine them... 😵💫 (chlorine gas)
You guys HAVE to do the Before trilogy. Specifically before midnight!!!
I saw this movie when it first came out (as a young twenty-something) with my dad and his feedback towards Tom’s behavior at the beginning was: “why can’t he just ask her out to get a hamburger or something?” 😂
I am so glad you guys tackled this movie. It’s been very contentious with audiences since its release, and you give a really good perspective.
To be honest, this channel is one of the most educational channels on the internet.
Something you guys didn't address in the film (or I missed it) that the film also doesn't take time to address (possibly because the writers don't believe it) is the existence of Aromantic people, something that is completely valid and could potentially have been the case for Summer that Tom likely would not have accepted.
This is a movie I've come to love more and more as I've gotten older. I really appreciate the perspective of a love story that doesn't work out for the main couple, but it doesn't feel cynical to me... It just feels real and feels like yes, this is a thing they can still have, it's just not working out for them with EACH OTHER. I used to be more like Tom. I dated a guy when I was 19 and was just SO in love. He just wasn't on the same page as me, in the end. And I was really heartbroken by it. It took me over a year to move past it. And now I have my husband, we've been married for 14 years, and I'm so happy with how it all turned out.
Thank you for helping identify toxic behavior. It helps me look at my own interactions and see how toxic I am sometimes.
Love this movie! I have always agreed that people paint both Tom and Summer as unilateral villains when the truth is more nuanced. I think I see Tom in a worse light than Summer but I don't hate him. It's very relatable to feel that yearning for a close romantic relationship but he does take it too far sometimes.
it's the opposite for me lol i see her as the ultimate fuckboi if she was a dude people will call her trash and here is why, she didn't have to kiss or seduce Tom, she knew he was looking for romance, she could find a non romantic person to play with but she decided to go for him like wtf?
i think she's worse she was the one who approached him knowing he was in love she's a fuckboi..
I love this timeless movie, and I understand the point it makes. My question is how do you control your feelings? Because from what I have seen, you can't help who you fall for, and even knowing someone is not good for you doesn't stop the discomfort of not being with them in the manner that you really want to.
Feeling’s are something you can and can’t control.
One common way to control emotions is do the action first then have the emotions change. Sometimes more of a fake it till you make. Sometimes more doing else.
Controlling the emotion of love is trickery and less likely. I do know someone who was able to make themselves platonically loving someone by actively being nice to them (probably a mix of getting to know them and making choices). Never have I seen someone control romantic love.
@@animasuperfreakgirlwhy would anyone even WANT
to “control” emotions love romantic love
you can’t control feelings. they’re automatic, natural, like your reaction to something. what you can control is how you act around it, which i do think is quite difficult, but it’s not impossible. if you ever feel like you’re getting overwhelmed and you can’t think clearly, then you take yourself out of the situation, breathe, and sit with your feelings. once you feel them and identify them, like what’s causing you to feel that way, then you’re able to make choices on what to do about it. and with that, you gotta have like a strong personality or a “me first” mindset to act for what’s good for you, even if it’s not something you want
I’m still hoping and praying for a Healthy vs Toxic Masculinity video on Peeta Mellark! 🤞🏼 Please oh please!
"Lets talk about this tomorrow, Im exhausted" is her, knowing and sensing that he was already worked up and had already picked a fight with her in his head. And she knew that he would react strongly and uncomfortably. She was protecting herself.
Preparing for all the Summer and Tom's comments projecting theirselves lol
I’ve had a few Toms in my life who ended up becoming stalkers and I had an intense feeling that they thought I was going to change their lives. I was 100% upfront that I wasn’t looking to have a serious relationship. Sure enough, I was right. One even drunkenly passed out in front of my apartment and I had no clue until management saw him first and called the police, and almost got me kicked out. Guys when a woman says no, she *means* no. Move on and break off the relationship entirely if you can’t handle just being friends.
*gasp* it's always an exciting day when Cinema Therapy uploads.
Requesting a video on The Swan Princess again please! It would work really well for this series or Couple Therapy.
I just recently watched this movie, and the ending hit me in such a good way.
I had a thing with a girl last summer(no pun intended) and she ended things where part of the reason was that she didnt feel like she was ready for any relationship. Fastforward to now a year later, she is engaged to someone else. I have moved on and everything, so I'm not really bitter or anything. However, it did sting a bit when I heard about it, naturally. The line where they're talking in the park at the end and she says something along the lines of "it just wasnt with you"(and thats okay)(Edit:"what I was never sure of with you" and "it just wasnt me you were right about") hit home and the pieces kinda fell that final little bit into place. At the same time its like i can "see" a different version of me that went the bitter route and would have learned a very different lesson from this movie. Thats a bit scary, but ultimately I'm happy with how it turned out.
girly got an avoidant attachment style and he's got the manic pixie glasses glued onto his face
lol I've been there before 💯
Having been married to a narcissist - not saying he is one because he doesn't love bomb, but the whole "I'm going to build up the things I like about you but never see you as a whole person, then blame YOU when you don't live up to the image I've created of you in my mind and lash out/try to control you" - is 🚩 and not just "he's an immature, entitled 20-something" behavior to me.
This was my experience, too. And in my case love bombed happened. Whether he had NPD or was narcissistic, I'll never know, but one thing I do know is his behavior was definitely narcissistic and harmed me. In the movie, Tom just seems to be an immature character to be honest. Irl, it could be a problem thinking it could just be immaturity and that they're harmless. In my case, it just got worse.
I never understood this movie as a teenager, but now it makes so much sense to me. I had to learn firsthand how it hurts and then you heal.