I love your content mate. After dealing with squealing brakes for approx 6 months, putting on new pads front and rear, I still had a squeal (enough ti deafen anyone in a km radius). Last night after watching this I pulled the newish pads out of the rear which had (non Landrover) anti squeal shims on them. I pulled them off, liberally applied brake grease between the rear of pad and shim, and ALSO applied the Landrover shim from the old pads WITH grease between all metal to metal bits. Squeal is now completely gone. The relief is incredible. Thankyou for this video! Amazing.
when I was a kid we went to visit family in Ireland. Dad snagged the exhaust on his A55 Austin Cambridge (the classic Blue with white stripe) on a gate stump thing. it pulled the down pipe off the manifold. So after we had had a brew and cake it was time to fix it. all that was needed was 1 pair of scissors, an empty bean tin from the relatives, then from the boot was some binding wire and a length of asbestos rope!!! This was the 1970s so perfectly safe.
Thank you Mike. Mine has developed squeaking rear brakes now the pads have worn down a bit. I downloaded your pattern and bought some 0.5mm stainless steel sheet and cut out the pattern for the brake shims using the pattern and a brake pad for reference. Fitted them today and voila it is now silent and I hope it stays that way. My rear disks seem a bit glazed, not sure if that was the primary cause of the squealing pads or as a result of it. I can now drive back from the pub under cover of dairy without announcing my movements to my wife!
As an apprentice welder back in the 80's i found some rods in a cupboard with funny string around them,fine i was told to keep away from them but hey i wanted a try of these special rods so i did.. When they came back and seen what i'd been using i honestly think i bounced off every wall in the factory,i know i hit the floor a few times and think i'd have seen the roof as well if they'd been that good to show me it.. The string was asbestos and not the friendly kind.. To this day i've still got an asbestos lump on my hand that keeps growing back.
Good video i live five minutes away from ferodo factory my best mate is a test driver there for the last 30 yrs he says they put the bonded banking on for speed and cheapness now but he said aftermarket or worn calipers are the biggest culprit because the pad shake's around too much when brake's not applied causing the backing to wear very quickly through causing the problem he says the shims Will help a lot
I am just posting a video now, and I found the old pads out to the 110 were metal shims bonded to the pad not the paper type like was on the Ferodo - do I am going to bond them to the Ferodo!
Im using genuine schims and coper grease and newer had any problems. But now I have one as the wheel rools it sqicks I changed the discs and pads. Cheers King Mike. 🥃
Mike I had this problem with my Disco 1 300tdi, I fitted new rear calipers and new Delphi Lockheed pads. I found if I greased the back of the pad it was fine for a couple of miles. The I looked at the caliper pistons carefully, the piston face that meets the pad was just basically sorn off. There was no chamfer on the piston edges where they meet the pad, sharp edges cut into the anti squeal material on the back of the pad. Cheap Chinese calipers from Britpart had poor quality machining on the piston. I lived with it until the calipers needed overhaul again. I bought a set of AP Lockheed calipers for the rear which had nice machining on the piston and I have not had any more trouble.
Ferodo lining was popular on motorcycle drum shoes. People would get their shoes relined with Ferodo material, but I can't remember why. They might have improved wet performance or wet/dry or fast dry.
I got EBC green stuff and DELPHI disk... no shims just the pad on back of the pads. been running it two years and no noise (110 300tdi). the back is cover in copper slip. the only problem I really had is the caliper seize up replaced pistons for ss ones and oem seals.
Not on the LR but on my sports car I use 3M anti squeal pads (can get from Amazon) which work well. Dampen the side to side vibration which is one cause of squealing. Also cut and stick inside the calliper where the pad is pushed up on braking to dampen the rattling. Don’t last forever but are cheap, easily replaced and work. Won’t stop squealing caused by pad material and rotor material interacting (some rotor / pad combinations are more prone than others).
I believe that stuff on the pads is meant to work in tandem with the shims, so it's surprising they don't supply shims with the pads. The last set I got for the D1 were Bendix, and they had shims.... but they were fronts. Don't remember the rears.
Hello Mike from the UK. This is the best TH-cam info for defenders iv found, well done. Im trying to buy your brake shims for my puma 110 - 2010 but the site isn't letting me input the delivery country for the postage please help as my brakes are driving me up the wall............
Have the pistons punched through the backing material on the pads because they were designed to have a metal shim protecting them? if so, one wonders why they werent supplied but perhaps they came from the factory with metal shims and they were never replaced.?
Only the Genuine Parts pad kit have the metal shims, ($£$£$£) when folk change pads they are often discarded However, there are pads with metal backing pads and fibre backing pads, which may account as to why some screech and others don't
As i understand it Mike, those anti squeal bits that come on the new pads are to work in conjunction with the tin shims, i did mine some time ago and came across the same issue when i unpacked the pads, there were no shims only the ones attached to the pads, so i contacted a local garage that does a lot of Defender work and he said the brake manufactures assumes you have the tin shims to install from your old pads, they do this to save money, which is why Genuine Land Rover ones are more expensive as they come WITH the shims. So needless to say i installed with my old shims directly over the shims on the new pads and have had no bother at all.
See next video - the old pads had metal shims bonded to the back, not paper like the Ferodo, so I took the metal shim off and bonded them to the Ferodo!
I have disco calipers on the rear of my 90, Havent noticed any noise, but as I haven't gone through the pads or need the discs changing yet the discs are for a 90, no noise for 4 years
I would agree with using some sort of grease , used sparingly , on brake moving parts , well away from the friction areas obviously , is a good thing . High temperature handling greases only . Copper grease could cause corrosion , due to differing metals causing electrolytic problems , but frequent servicing would probably negate that argument . Brake grease is designed for brake components though . I used copper grease with no problems too , but I have changed my mind having read about brake grease . Another thing about copper grease , some say , is that it could cause actual electrical faults in things like ABS sensors. I hope Mike reads this and gives us his advice
I have not experienced electrolytic problems with copper grease, but I do find it dries quickly and does not do much lubrication, only anti seize properties You could see, by the aluminum based anti seize I used on the pads, that it had dried out after 7 months of standing. The brake grease makes sense, as it will not attack the rubber components in the caliper - we will see!
Replaced my rear pads on 1996 tdi 90 recently with Delphi and no shims were supplied or fitted with old pads. No squeals over 20yrs like this. Also I personally will not use grease on back of my pads as I reckon they can get so hot during towing that grease can melt and flow. Guess where it will go? However very interesting video and thanks for it Mike. Another thought here in South africa it's hot and dry and this may also be reason why no squeals. However my series is another story
My cars pads don't come with new shims and from my understanding, you're supposed to pick them off the back of the worn pad and reuse them. Can be quite well stuck. Talking of shims. It's definitely time to shim-my off to the public house.
Hmmm . That is a lot of brake grease Mike , is this something you have tested before ? I know someone who called for help when his Sanglas ( coincidentally Spanish) motorbike front disc brake leaked fluid . So two friends turned up to help sort Mogsee's bike out . Dave and Steve found an O ring on the ground below the caliper . Mogsee had taken the caliper halves apart for some unknown reason and did not notice the O ring . Dave thought the caliper seemed a bit slippery when he stripped the thing apart . Yup , Mogs had decided GTX was a decent oil to use in his brake lines. A little knowledge......there again it is how we learn , especially if RFM (Read the Fing Manual) is not applied . That little O ring saved Mogs's life .
Hmm I wonder are modern anti squeel shims made of a material more suitable for Lucas sliding type callipers. As there’s a larder surface area in contact with the caliper on one side so it could be softer. I’ve got ebc in my disco and in the Zeus conversion on the series. And they seem ok
I use lard on my brakes for the same reason . Lol. Messaging on TH-cam is so difficult , the cursor jumps backwards into previous text constantly . But I love reading peoples notes . ATB
I have just read about silicon being put on pads , in some cases , by the manufacturers , to reduce noise . I mean solid sheets of silicon , not grease , being applied . I wonder if that was what Mike removed ?
I am going to do a quick update on this subject today as the problem is only on 110 and 130's However, last night I was digging about on the internet and found a picture of a Genuine set of pads in the box and lo! It has the shims AND the sticky pad on the back, which would explain a lot - the shim protects the sticky pad www.landybitz.com.au/land-rover-defender-genuine-rear-brake-pads
Even though I don't have any Rover vehicles I always get a lot out of your videos, so thank you. My vehicles have side shims to keep the pads from rattling so I wonder in your case the paper shims are being ground away, seems like if the calipers were pushing straight on the paper shims it would only make an indentation, not wear through them. Do other Rovers have side shims to keep the pads from moving around?
Ach...there's nothing stopping you from spraying the discs with WD40. And when you do, then there really will be nothing stopping you. LOL! The rear brake squeeks on the 110 will be history (as will the rest of the 110 as it sails through a junction and tries to climb the nearest tree), but they would soon be replaced with _new_ sqeeks.....from the rubber wheels of yer new wheelchair on the hospital floor. Personally, I can live with a few caliper rattles and squeels, as long as it doesn't sound like a freight train coming to a stop.
@@cameronwood1994 - Having worked on many bikes for folk in the past, I too have seen a few do this. One guy came in with a drum brake rear set up, and said he cleaned it all and had new springs n shoes etc, and the bike sailed through a set of lights. I looked, and it was all heavily internally sprayed with WD40 ''to stop them seizing up ever again''. SCARY!
When I was an apprentice 45 years ago when all this kicked off about how bad asbestos was, an old fitter said it was rubbish and started chewing an asbestos gasket!
I love your content mate. After dealing with squealing brakes for approx 6 months, putting on new pads front and rear, I still had a squeal (enough ti deafen anyone in a km radius).
Last night after watching this I pulled the newish pads out of the rear which had (non Landrover) anti squeal shims on them. I pulled them off, liberally applied brake grease between the rear of pad and shim, and ALSO applied the Landrover shim from the old pads WITH grease between all metal to metal bits. Squeal is now completely gone. The relief is incredible.
Thankyou for this video! Amazing.
I now sell the shims in my shop, www.britrest.com/shop
when I was a kid we went to visit family in Ireland. Dad snagged the exhaust on his A55 Austin Cambridge (the classic Blue with white stripe) on a gate stump thing. it pulled the down pipe off the manifold. So after we had had a brew and cake it was time to fix it. all that was needed was 1 pair of scissors, an empty bean tin from the relatives, then from the boot was some binding wire and a length of asbestos rope!!! This was the 1970s so perfectly safe.
lol!
My defender has always squeaked, maybe this is why?
Thanks for the awesome vids, cant wait for the next
Good to hear!
I had the same experience with some Mercedes rear Brembo pads, could not keep them quiet, I used the stainless shims and the noise went away
Thank you Mike. Mine has developed squeaking rear brakes now the pads have worn down a bit. I downloaded your pattern and bought some 0.5mm stainless steel sheet and cut out the pattern for the brake shims using the pattern and a brake pad for reference. Fitted them today and voila it is now silent and I hope it stays that way. My rear disks seem a bit glazed, not sure if that was the primary cause of the squealing pads or as a result of it. I can now drive back from the pub under cover of dairy without announcing my movements to my wife!
They will be good a long time!
As an apprentice welder back in the 80's i found some rods in a cupboard with funny string around them,fine i was told to keep away from them but hey i wanted a try of these special rods so i did..
When they came back and seen what i'd been using i honestly think i bounced off every wall in the factory,i know i hit the floor a few times and think i'd have seen the roof as well if they'd been that good to show me it..
The string was asbestos and not the friendly kind..
To this day i've still got an asbestos lump on my hand that keeps growing back.
Good video i live five minutes away from ferodo factory my best mate is a test driver there for the last 30 yrs he says they put the bonded banking on for speed and cheapness now but he said aftermarket or worn calipers are the biggest culprit because the pad shake's around too much when brake's not applied causing the backing to wear very quickly through causing the problem he says the shims Will help a lot
I am just posting a video now, and I found the old pads out to the 110 were metal shims bonded to the pad not the paper type like was on the Ferodo - do I am going to bond them to the Ferodo!
We put high temp silicon on the back of the pad
I see a lot of that here to stop the pad rattling in the caliper
Im using genuine schims and coper grease and newer had any problems.
But now I have one as the wheel rools it sqicks I changed the discs and pads.
Cheers King Mike. 🥃
Good to know!
Mike I had this problem with my Disco 1 300tdi, I fitted new rear calipers and new Delphi Lockheed pads. I found if I greased the back of the pad it was fine for a couple of miles. The I looked at the caliper pistons carefully, the piston face that meets the pad was just basically sorn off. There was no chamfer on the piston edges where they meet the pad, sharp edges cut into the anti squeal material on the back of the pad.
Cheap Chinese calipers from Britpart had poor quality machining on the piston. I lived with it until the calipers needed overhaul again. I bought a set of AP Lockheed calipers for the rear which had nice machining on the piston and I have not had any more trouble.
Ferodo lining was popular on motorcycle drum shoes. People would get their shoes relined with Ferodo material, but I can't remember why. They might have improved wet performance or wet/dry or fast dry.
I got EBC green stuff and DELPHI disk... no shims just the pad on back of the pads. been running it two years and no noise (110 300tdi). the back is cover in copper slip. the only problem I really had is the caliper seize up replaced pistons for ss ones and oem seals.
Not on the LR but on my sports car I use 3M anti squeal pads (can get from Amazon) which work well. Dampen the side to side vibration which is one cause of squealing. Also cut and stick inside the calliper where the pad is pushed up on braking to dampen the rattling. Don’t last forever but are cheap, easily replaced and work.
Won’t stop squealing caused by pad material and rotor material interacting (some rotor / pad combinations are more prone than others).
I believe that stuff on the pads is meant to work in tandem with the shims, so it's surprising they don't supply shims with the pads. The last set I got for the D1 were Bendix, and they had shims.... but they were fronts. Don't remember the rears.
The unusual thing is they do not supply shims as individual parts - - you can get the spring and pin kits, but not the shims - strange
Hello Mike from the UK. This is the best TH-cam info for defenders iv found, well done.
Im trying to buy your brake shims for my puma 110 - 2010 but the site isn't letting me input the delivery country for the postage
please help as my brakes are driving me up the wall............
Email me britrest@britrest.com and I can sort it out pronto!
Got there in the end!
Have the pistons punched through the backing material on the pads because they were designed to have a metal shim protecting them? if so, one wonders why they werent supplied but perhaps they came from the factory with metal shims and they were never replaced.?
Only the Genuine Parts pad kit have the metal shims, ($£$£$£) when folk change pads they are often discarded
However, there are pads with metal backing pads and fibre backing pads, which may account as to why some screech and others don't
As i understand it Mike, those anti squeal bits that come on the new pads are to work in conjunction with the tin shims, i did mine some time ago and came across the same issue when i unpacked the pads, there were no shims only the ones attached to the pads, so i contacted a local garage that does a lot of Defender work and he said the brake manufactures assumes you have the tin shims to install from your old pads, they do this to save money, which is why Genuine Land Rover ones are more expensive as they come WITH the shims. So needless to say i installed with my old shims directly over the shims on the new pads and have had no bother at all.
See next video - the old pads had metal shims bonded to the back, not paper like the Ferodo, so I took the metal shim off and bonded them to the Ferodo!
Mike I think those can be ordered using part # 591629 and 591628
I think they are Range Rover ones - sightly different - hard to say
I have disco calipers on the rear of my 90, Havent noticed any noise, but as I haven't gone through the pads or need the discs changing yet the discs are for a 90, no noise for 4 years
It seems as if this is only an annoying problem on the 110 and 130
i always use copper grease on brake fittings
I would agree with using some sort of grease , used sparingly , on brake moving parts , well away from the friction areas obviously , is a good thing . High temperature handling greases only . Copper grease could cause corrosion , due to differing metals causing electrolytic problems , but frequent servicing would probably negate that argument . Brake grease is designed for brake components though . I used copper grease with no problems too , but I have changed my mind having read about brake grease . Another thing about copper grease , some say , is that it could cause actual electrical faults in things like ABS sensors.
I hope Mike reads this and gives us his advice
I have not experienced electrolytic problems with copper grease, but I do find it dries quickly and does not do much lubrication, only anti seize properties
You could see, by the aluminum based anti seize I used on the pads, that it had dried out after 7 months of standing.
The brake grease makes sense, as it will not attack the rubber components in the caliper - we will see!
@@BritannicaRestorations Thanks Mike. Would not want my rubbers perishing !
Never used shims on the pads and never had squealing brakes on the 110 or the 90. What am I doing wrong...
As I mentioned - Ferodo pads in my 130 axle conversion - not a bit of noise
This was done 6 years ago
Replaced my rear pads on 1996 tdi 90 recently with Delphi and no shims were supplied or fitted with old pads. No squeals over 20yrs like this. Also I personally will not use grease on back of my pads as I reckon they can get so hot during towing that grease can melt and flow. Guess where it will go?
However very interesting video and thanks for it Mike.
Another thought here in South africa it's hot and dry and this may also be reason why no squeals. However my series is another story
This only applies to 110 and 130
The grease will be fine
I have found that Ferodo pads are the only ones that do not squeal on the rear of my D90. Never even seen those Land Rover shims
The squealing brakes were not an issue on the 90 - has a different pad retention style
@@BritannicaRestorations
Tell that to my 90 🤷♂️. 😂
My cars pads don't come with new shims and from my understanding, you're supposed to pick them off the back of the worn pad and reuse them. Can be quite well stuck. Talking of shims. It's definitely time to shim-my off to the public house.
It's funny, but it's never the fronts that screech!
Hmmm . That is a lot of brake grease Mike , is this something you have tested before ?
I know someone who called for help when his Sanglas ( coincidentally Spanish) motorbike front disc brake leaked fluid . So two friends turned up to help sort Mogsee's bike out . Dave and Steve found an O ring on the ground below the caliper . Mogsee had taken the caliper halves apart for some unknown reason and did not notice the O ring . Dave thought the caliper seemed a bit slippery when he stripped the thing apart . Yup , Mogs had decided GTX was a decent oil to use in his brake lines. A little knowledge......there again it is how we learn , especially if RFM (Read the Fing Manual) is not applied .
That little O ring saved Mogs's life .
Hmm I wonder are modern anti squeel shims made of a material more suitable for Lucas sliding type callipers. As there’s a larder surface area in contact with the caliper on one side so it could be softer. I’ve got ebc in my disco and in the Zeus conversion on the series. And they seem ok
I use lard on my brakes for the same reason . Lol. Messaging on TH-cam is so difficult , the cursor jumps backwards into previous text constantly . But I love reading peoples notes . ATB
I have just read about silicon being put on pads , in some cases , by the manufacturers , to reduce noise . I mean solid sheets of silicon , not grease , being applied . I wonder if that was what Mike removed ?
I am going to do a quick update on this subject today as the problem is only on 110 and 130's
However, last night I was digging about on the internet and found a picture of a Genuine set of pads in the box and lo!
It has the shims AND the sticky pad on the back, which would explain a lot - the shim protects the sticky pad
www.landybitz.com.au/land-rover-defender-genuine-rear-brake-pads
It was not silicone that's for sure -- some sort of 'tar paper' if anything
Are you sure the shims are not included in other after-marked parts , like textar ?
Not that I know of - never heard of Texar
Even though I don't have any Rover vehicles I always get a lot out of your videos, so thank you.
My vehicles have side shims to keep the pads from rattling so I wonder in your case the paper shims are being ground away, seems like if the calipers were pushing straight on the paper shims it would only make an indentation, not wear through them.
Do other Rovers have side shims to keep the pads from moving around?
It seems only the disc braked 110 and 130 rears suffer this issue
@@BritannicaRestorations Check the widows and door seals, add some of your interior damping material or if all else fails get a louder radio LOL
If you want to know about 'Asbestos' there is a channel on youtube that visited the place. TOM SCOTT gives you the 'lowdown' on that place...
Ach...there's nothing stopping you from spraying the discs with WD40. And when you do, then there really will be nothing stopping you. LOL! The rear brake squeeks on the 110 will be history (as will the rest of the 110 as it sails through a junction and tries to climb the nearest tree), but they would soon be replaced with _new_ sqeeks.....from the rubber wheels of yer new wheelchair on the hospital floor. Personally, I can live with a few caliper rattles and squeels, as long as it doesn't sound like a freight train coming to a stop.
This can be an ear-piercing screech every time you touch the pedal!
You jest, but I know someone who did that on his motorbike to stop them squealing. They stopped squealing alright, but the brakes no longer worked!
@@cameronwood1994 - Having worked on many bikes for folk in the past, I too have seen a few do this. One guy came in with a drum brake rear set up, and said he cleaned it all and had new springs n shoes etc, and the bike sailed through a set of lights. I looked, and it was all heavily internally sprayed with WD40 ''to stop them seizing up ever again''. SCARY!
@@BritannicaRestorations - Hmmm, - My free solution is to simply turn the radio up louder.
I belive there is a town i russia called asbest, and the mine there is stil going, noone has gotten cancer from asbestos in russia🤪🤠
When I was an apprentice 45 years ago when all this kicked off about how bad asbestos was, an old fitter said it was rubbish and started chewing an asbestos gasket!
Turn the radio up,cheap fix
You are now throwing random lines from songs without meaning too. "Something in the way it moves." You shocked yourself with that one.
Lol!