Thank you so much for this comparison video. One thing I'd add is, with writing curricula, you have to determine the trajectory of the program through the end of Grade 8. W&R is built off of the progymnasmata concept. Each book teaching 1 tool of writing as it builds over the course of years (grade 3-8). IEW focuses heavily on style and outlining in the first few levels until grade 7. The trajectory of each program and the techniques learned by the child are very different by the end of grade 8, with IEW having a longer program (10th grade) than W&R. Parents should assess what composition skills they want their child to have mastered by grade 8 before selecting either of these programs and not expect the curricula to cover everything in one level or book. More like small accumulations of skill overtime until you achieve an end goal. Jumping from curricula to curricula can be detrimental for children when it comes to building on previous gains made.
This is a good point! I think often times we forget to look ahead at the future plans of the curriculum as we’re so focused on right now. Thanks for sharing.
@@sunshinenanchor3953 By grade 8, I expect my child to be able to write a 2 to 3-page essay independently. I plan to use grades 9-12 to refine the writing in preparation for college composition courses. I don't have any middle schoolers yet, but I'm looking well ahead to ensure the curricula I am using now will get us there. I'm debating right now between Lost Tools of Writing, Writing with Skill and Writing & Rhetoric books 7-12 for grades 6-8. LTOW is HIGHLY regarded in the Classical Conversations community. These kids can write WELL. W&R is excellent preparation for Classical Academic Press' upper level Rhetoric courses, which we have a strong interest in speech, debate, rhetoric and analysis. Both look like solid programs. Personally, I like IEW solely for teaching elements of "style" in upper elementary. They have a good program that is very well organized and methodical. However, I'd pair the early levels of IEW with a writing curriculum that introduces the child to the structure of writing early on and often. I personally believe waiting until 6th or 7th grade is too late.
@@user-vg8ez9cu6u do you feel IEW Will more likely produce a better writer than W & R for college essays? Or do you feel if all books are used the result is the same?
@@jessicajones611 that's difficult to say. Really depends on how the parent plans to use the IEW curriculum. Personally, I think IEW takes longer to get to our goal. I like that W&R doesn't appear to have any gaps and focuses on BOTH structure & style of composition earlier on. The one complaint I have heard is that IEW doesn't allow for a great deal of inventive thinking when it comes to creative writing.
Thank you so much for this video! I am looking at W&R, IEW, and WS so this is just the video I have been looking for. Thank you for laying out the pros and cons of each.
Love the comparison and your thoughts on each program. I just bought the IEW pals program to help teach my 5yr old daughter to read. We’ve been just using the book teach your child to read in a 100 easy lessons and it’s not working. She is very frustrated. We ending up picking iew because of the writing aspect and all the games. She learns well with lots of hands on activities. My oldest is doing online charter school and wants to write books but she isn’t learning much how to do that besides basics so I just ordered her the program for 6-8th grade for her to supplement and during summer break. The program looks amazing! Plus I can reuse it with my youngest when we get there eventually.
Thanks! I’ve been looking into the different programs IEW offers and like the idea of zoo phonics. I will definitely be looking into more of the programs they offer. It is really nice when you can reuse a curriculum for another child 😃 To me it at least justifies the cost 💰
Great comparison we use R&R for both my 2nd going on 3rd grader and my 4.5-5th grader. I thought about lightening lit but decided against it because I really enjoy doing as much together as possible. We use Michael clay Thompson for grammar and love it. I am thinking of implementing brave writer next year. I also do not feel I am an adequate writer so I’m hoping I can learn or grow along with them.
I think they’re all great options, it just really comes down to student/teacher preference 😃. We too use MCT and have been enjoying it. One thing I have been enjoying about homeschooling is the opportunity to learn alongside my daughter. Don’t get me wrong, I definitely get anxiety at times about my inability to teach certain subjects 😬 but I feel like I’m getting a 2nd chance at me education as well. 😁
Thank you Michelle for making these videos. I'm still trying to figure out what to do for my second grader for writing. He enjoys writing if it's topics he's interested. He seems to be a natural writer but the time will come when he needs more structure. I am considering IEW for 4th grade. He is also the kid that loves check lists.
It’s worked well for my daughter ✍️ it’s funny now she doesn’t often have to even look at the checklist because it’s become more of a writing habit, which is awesome 👌
I recommend making copies before she highlights the story and any other sheets so you can use it with your young child. I started this last year with my then just turned 8 yearold. We got through about 8 weeks and stopped as it gets increasingly harder.She is now 9 and we will be starting from the beginning again soon.
Thanks for sharing! I always love hearing about how other moms decide what to use. Regarding Writing and Rethoric: love the Progymnasmata training path for writing, but usually my Classical education tendencies don’t work well for my son 😅 IEW looks wonderful! In fact, I am considering one of their first courses for outlining… the one that is not online, I think it is called “All Things Fun and Fascinating”… before we use the Progym with Memoria Press Classical Composition. I am sure you will love IEW. This one on video looks amazing! I was not trained to write well either and researching writing curriculum for my children to use in the future gets me excited! 😄
I definitely think it’s specific to each child. It’s a perfect fit for my oldest, yet I have a feeling it won’t work for my youngest daughter when she gets older. That’s one of the joys of homeschooling though! Being able to pivot and change to meet the child where their at 😃📝I’ve really enjoyed researching writing curriculum and learning alongside my daughter. ✍️
Realizing I’m late to this discussion…. But did you complete W&R book first and then move in to IEW? Or did you drop W&R? And is it possible to combine the two in the same year? Thank you so much
The video details my thought process about choosing a writing curriculum. Although W&R was a contender, I ultimately chose IEW for my oldest. I’ve never used W&R so I can’t really speak to that aspect. I know IEW is scheduled for 6 months so theoretically you could do that and then start another program, but I don’t think they can be done in conjunction. IEW is pretty time consuming .
Thank you so much for this comparison video. One thing I'd add is, with writing curricula, you have to determine the trajectory of the program through the end of Grade 8. W&R is built off of the progymnasmata concept. Each book teaching 1 tool of writing as it builds over the course of years (grade 3-8). IEW focuses heavily on style and outlining in the first few levels until grade 7. The trajectory of each program and the techniques learned by the child are very different by the end of grade 8, with IEW having a longer program (10th grade) than W&R. Parents should assess what composition skills they want their child to have mastered by grade 8 before selecting either of these programs and not expect the curricula to cover everything in one level or book. More like small accumulations of skill overtime until you achieve an end goal. Jumping from curricula to curricula can be detrimental for children when it comes to building on previous gains made.
This is a good point! I think often times we forget to look ahead at the future plans of the curriculum as we’re so focused on right now. Thanks for sharing.
Do you do a combined approach, or do you stick to W&R?
@@sunshinenanchor3953 By grade 8, I expect my child to be able to write a 2 to 3-page essay independently. I plan to use grades 9-12 to refine the writing in preparation for college composition courses. I don't have any middle schoolers yet, but I'm looking well ahead to ensure the curricula I am using now will get us there. I'm debating right now between Lost Tools of Writing, Writing with Skill and Writing & Rhetoric books 7-12 for grades 6-8. LTOW is HIGHLY regarded in the Classical Conversations community. These kids can write WELL. W&R is excellent preparation for Classical Academic Press' upper level Rhetoric courses, which we have a strong interest in speech, debate, rhetoric and analysis. Both look like solid programs. Personally, I like IEW solely for teaching elements of "style" in upper elementary. They have a good program that is very well organized and methodical. However, I'd pair the early levels of IEW with a writing curriculum that introduces the child to the structure of writing early on and often. I personally believe waiting until 6th or 7th grade is too late.
@@user-vg8ez9cu6u do you feel IEW Will more likely produce a better writer than W & R for college essays? Or do you feel if all books are used the result is the same?
@@jessicajones611 that's difficult to say. Really depends on how the parent plans to use the IEW curriculum. Personally, I think IEW takes longer to get to our goal. I like that W&R doesn't appear to have any gaps and focuses on BOTH structure & style of composition earlier on. The one complaint I have heard is that IEW doesn't allow for a great deal of inventive thinking when it comes to creative writing.
Thank you so much for this video! I am looking at W&R, IEW, and WS so this is just the video I have been looking for. Thank you for laying out the pros and cons of each.
I’m glad you found it helpful 😃
Love the comparison and your thoughts on each program. I just bought the IEW pals program to help teach my 5yr old daughter to read. We’ve been just using the book teach your child to read in a 100 easy lessons and it’s not working. She is very frustrated. We ending up picking iew because of the writing aspect and all the games. She learns well with lots of hands on activities. My oldest is doing online charter school and wants to write books but she isn’t learning much how to do that besides basics so I just ordered her the program for 6-8th grade for her to supplement and during summer break. The program looks amazing! Plus I can reuse it with my youngest when we get there eventually.
Thanks! I’ve been looking into the different programs IEW offers and like the idea of zoo phonics. I will definitely be looking into more of the programs they offer. It is really nice when you can reuse a curriculum for another child 😃 To me it at least justifies the cost 💰
Great comparison we use R&R for both my 2nd going on 3rd grader and my 4.5-5th grader. I thought about lightening lit but decided against it because I really enjoy doing as much together as possible. We use Michael clay Thompson for grammar and love it. I am thinking of implementing brave writer next year. I also do not feel I am an adequate writer so I’m hoping I can learn or grow along with them.
I think they’re all great options, it just really comes down to student/teacher preference 😃. We too use MCT and have been enjoying it. One thing I have been enjoying about homeschooling is the opportunity to learn alongside my daughter. Don’t get me wrong, I definitely get anxiety at times about my inability to teach certain subjects 😬 but I feel like I’m getting a 2nd chance at me education as well. 😁
Thank you Michelle for making these videos. I'm still trying to figure out what to do for my second grader for writing. He enjoys writing if it's topics he's interested. He seems to be a natural writer but the time will come when he needs more structure. I am considering IEW for 4th grade. He is also the kid that loves check lists.
It’s worked well for my daughter ✍️ it’s funny now she doesn’t often have to even look at the checklist because it’s become more of a writing habit, which is awesome 👌
I recommend making copies before she highlights the story and any other sheets so you can use it with your young child. I started this last year with my then just turned 8 yearold. We got through about 8 weeks and stopped as it gets increasingly harder.She is now 9 and we will be starting from the beginning again soon.
Thanks for the suggestion 😃 For the price I paid for it, I definitely want to get more then one use out of it!
Thanks for sharing! I always love hearing about how other moms decide what to use. Regarding Writing and Rethoric: love the Progymnasmata training path for writing, but usually my Classical education tendencies don’t work well for my son 😅 IEW looks wonderful! In fact, I am considering one of their first courses for outlining… the one that is not online, I think it is called “All Things Fun and Fascinating”… before we use the Progym with Memoria Press Classical Composition. I am sure you will love IEW. This one on video looks amazing! I was not trained to write well either and researching writing curriculum for my children to use in the future gets me excited! 😄
I definitely think it’s specific to each child. It’s a perfect fit for my oldest, yet I have a feeling it won’t work for my youngest daughter when she gets older. That’s one of the joys of homeschooling though! Being able to pivot and change to meet the child where their at 😃📝I’ve really enjoyed researching writing curriculum and learning alongside my daughter. ✍️
Realizing I’m late to this discussion…. But did you complete W&R book first and then move in to IEW? Or did you drop W&R? And is it possible to combine the two in the same year? Thank you so much
The video details my thought process about choosing a writing curriculum. Although W&R was a contender, I ultimately chose IEW for my oldest. I’ve never used W&R so I can’t really speak to that aspect. I know IEW is scheduled for 6 months so theoretically you could do that and then start another program, but I don’t think they can be done in conjunction. IEW is pretty time consuming .