Bari Sax Mouthpiece Trials
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ต.ค. 2024
- Playing 12 different baritone sax mouthpieces.
Horn: Phil Barone Low Bb Bari
1. Vandoren V16 B9
2. 1:45 Mouthpiece Cafe Grande Supreme
3. 3:05 No Name Hard Rubber piece - refaced
4. 4:20 Otto Link STM .115 - refaced with small wedge baffle
5. 5:45 Yanagisawa #5 Hard Rubber
6. 7:05 Jody Jazz DVNY 7*
7. 8:45 Theo Wanne Durga - first edition
8. 10:10 Rico Metalite - refaced
9. 11:40 RPC .110 Rollover
10. 13:25 Jody Jazz Jet
11. 15:10 PPT Power - refaced lightly by Norbert Stachel
12. 16:55 Jody Jazz DV 8
Sad note to report Ronnie Coelho of RPC Mouthpiece passed away in December of 2019.
This was very helpful as I search for a better mouthpiece. You sound great! This quote: "You can sound pretty mediocre on just about anything", too funny.
That METALITE is huge, i play the 9 opening and i really like it! I think i got a good one cos i tried and bought many MPC and none came close for me as far. Thanks for the video.
I think you had the richest tone on the RPC. Thanks for making this video!
Thanks, Keith. I spoke with Ron at RPC today and ordered a 0.110" high baffle model for my daughter's Selmer S80 baritone.
Your welcome. Ron is a really nice guy and a fine mouthpiece maker especially bari pieces. I'm sure you'll love the piece.
Thanks for coalescing my decision to go for the JJ Jet! Since I only play my Bari in Funk / Rock situations, projection with a good sound is primary.
Concerning your reed issue on the DV8, I have come to swear by the Reed Geek G4. Somehow smoothing the mating surface of the Reed to the face seems to keep it from absorbing moisture and maintains a better seal. It definitely extends the playtime of the reed when pushing things in a loud band. Additionally, it seems to extend the life of the reeds.
Glad you found the video helpful. Since I made the original video Jody Jazz has come out with the Super Jet which I haven't had a chance to try yet but by all accounts appears to be brighter and more cutting than the Jet. The regular Jet is really too bright for me under most circumstances but at least it's relatively affordable if you want a special purpose piece for playing in a specific situation like the rock & funk band you mention. At $450 the Super Jet is a bit much for this unless you've got a loud band bari gig that pays enough to justify it. Frankly, with everything presently closed down due to COVID that gig doesn't even exist right now so nobody has it.
I have a Reed Geek that lives in my tenor case that I used to use pretty regularly on gigs when there were regular gigs. For home use I bought one of these mini lathe bit sets from Harbor Freight www.harborfreight.com/5-piece-m2-high-speed-steel-mini-tool-bits-for-metalworking-lathes-40641.html . They aren't as pretty but these work just as well as the Geek and at $4-$6 they're cheap enough that you can even buy a few extras and give them out to your sax playing buddies.
@@RidingEasttoWest Actually been playing out quite a bit here in Missouri, albeit, mostly outside so things may change as Winter approaches! Sorry to hear that you are unable to put your obvious talent out there live right now. Hopefully things will improve sooner rather than later.
Wish I had the coin to drop on the Super, but I am upgrading components on 3 of my 4 horns and have to balance things out a bit! Don't want my Alto getting jealous!
I will check out the lathe bits you mentioned. I like Mauro "The Geek" and the fact that he manufactures in the US, so I support him when I can. Regardless, there may come a time I cannot afford a backup, so we do what we have to do!
Do well out there!
Keith , you should not say you sound mediocre. You play very well .
Thanks - just being honest though. I'm not a professional sax player or musician, more of a weekend warrior/ enthusiastic hobbyist.
please upload more! you are so good at playing and I love bari so much
I dig the Link with the baffle. To my ear sounds like a bari should with just enough edge. A really nice balance of full sound that cuts.
Yeah, it's one of my favorites as well. Mine has a really lush sound when playing mp-mf but I naturally blow a bit dark and it's a lot of work for me to get it to bark like the DV for funk and R&B gigs. I prefer it just a little over the DV NY and Durga for most big band playing.
Nice video! Very informative! Some cool mouthpieces and some I've never heard of. I agree you can't beat the rico royal for the price. I've bought those for my school baris and tenors and I think they play great. Thanks for the video!
Jody Jazz DV NY for the win! Great demo here. Thank you so much!
You're welcome.
BTW I have a Yani bari, a B992, that I gig on quite a bit but in this case I did these trials on my Low Bb Barone bari. Since I use the JJ DV mouthpieces for most of my gigs and the shanks on those pieces are the largest in the group, the neck cork on my Yani is larger to accommodate for that. Many of the other mouthpieces I played in the clip have much smaller shank IDs and would have been really hard to force on to that neck so I chose to use the Barone to make my task a bit easier in that regard.
This is the first time I’ve seen somebody who has even more bari mouthpieces than I do. Great vid. I bought the Vandoren V16 and wish I hadn’t. The sound on my baris (IMHO) is as though somebody has shoved a sock down the bell.. I also have a Drake and thinking about a SYOS. My fave mpc is a Runyon Quantum Delrin #10 (without the spoiler) for the Big Band and I have a metal one for the Soul Band. I would stronger recommend trying the Delrin one.
While some of the pieces I played in the video were not mine but a friend's who asked me to comment on them, I'm embarrassed to admit I own several more that I did not play in the video as well as probably 3 times that many tenor mouthpieces I've collected over the years.
The Runyon bari pieces are popular with a lot of players as are the old Brilhart Level-Air and Berg Larsen pieces as well. I have an older Jody Jazz Classic bari piece with the spoiler that in some ways is similar to the Runyons but I prefer the JJ DV pieces. Sorry the V16 didn't work out for you. What tip opening and reed were you using?
B9 Rico Plasticover 2 (I love these)@@RidingEasttoWest
I play those Plasticover reeds sometimes, especially when I'm playing outdoor gigs in the summer since reeds dry out so quickly. That's sounds like a reasonable setup to me assuming you play a bit stiffer reed on your Runyon. The tip opening on a Runyon 10 if it hasn't been refaced is around a .105. The Vandoren B9 is listed at .122 - that's a significant difference. Throw in the differences in design and the B9 V16 with the same strength reed as the Runyon would offer more resistance and feel/sound a lot more stuffy.
Many thanks for the info.@@RidingEasttoWest
I have a Runyon #8 and I play on plasticcovers with a spoiler. I like the piece a lot but I'm looking for more focus and punch at the bottom. My Tech recommends the V16 but I'm unsure. I heard a player from Germany play at Runyon .150. His sound was unbelievable. Mojo says he can open my Runyon to a #11. He wouldn't be able to modify the piece to 0.150. What do you think?
Very gud video
very nice video!!!! reed brand/strength on the J J JET? I have a JET 8 too...
I did this video many years ago and even then I wasn't keeping track of what I was using on each mouthpiece. I went through a phase around 2008-2010 where I was playing a lot of Fibracell synthetic reeds on bari then I switched to Rico Plasticovers for a short while. For the last 10 years I've been playing mostly Rico/ D'Addario Select Jazz and occasionally Royals or the standard "Orange Box" reeds. I've tried a few other brands including Vandorens which I play on alto and tenor but I always end up back on Rico/ D'Addario for bari.
So while I couldn't say for sure, there is a very good chance it was a Rico Jazz Select 3S or 3M.
@@RidingEasttoWest thanks very much for the answer!!! i am still searching for the right reed for my JET 8...
Love that Theo Wanne Durga sound! Time to pinch some pennies!
Yup, they aren't cheap but be aware that the Durga I played in the clip was the original Durga and not the Durga 3 that Theo now sells. The Durga 3 has a longer but lower baffle smaller throat and no power ring in the shank I believe. I haven't played a Durga 3 but the design visually is much more similar to the JJDV that is my favorite bari piece for R&B, funk, rock, etc.. I'd like to try the Durga 3 but not until I can get a hold of one for a reasonable price.
RidingEasttoWest you know it’s good when leo p plays on it
Great comparison test! I think I prefer both the Link STM and the Vandoren. You describe the Link in the video as a 7* tip facing with a wedge baffle. However in the description list it says it is a .115 tip. Is that a typo or was it opened up? I really dig the full powerful sound of it.
Also, is that Metalite like a M9 facing?
The STM is around a .115 and I don't think it has been opened, at least not significantly - though these things are hard to measure exactly and different folks measure in different ways and in different places on the mouthpiece as well. It has a small wedge baffle that's about 1/2 inch long added starting about 3/8ths of an inch back from the tip about where the normal rollover baffle falls off. It looks similar to the one shown in the pics here but it's not quite as long;
reverb.com/item/31816685-otto-link-stm-ny-0-107-bob-carpenter-reface-with-added-baffle
This piece looks to me like it has also been refaced as the table and rails are all bare brass. The tip and side rails also appear to be narrowed and cleaned up as well - aka - there's a nicer facing on this piece than what I've typically seen on stock Links.
The Metalite is an M9 but it came to me with a completely twisted facing as I think I mentioned in the video so I refaced it to something between an M7 and M9 since I had to take it down a bit to get most of the crookedness out of it. It didn't touch the baffle, throat, or chamber - just corrected the facing to make it playable.
I like the sound of the Link as well though I play most of my bari gigs on the JJDV to get more bite and projection.
I have about 10 more bari pieces lined up to do another video - a Berg, Warburton, SR Tech, older Jody Jazz, a couple of Drakes, and a few other odds & ends. I hope to be able to put it together in the next couple months. Just been too busy with the rest of life lately.
Many thanks for your quick response and clarifying info. I mightt look into a Link STM as well and the possibility of
adding a similar kind of wedge baffle and see how that works out. I am looking forward to your next video on mouthpieces. In the meantime take care and all the best.
Good afternoon.
Great demonstration.
Could you please list it in order of execution.
It would help a lot who is not fluent in English
A few folks have asked for a list of the pieces played. I don't have time to time stamp them all but here's the order I played them in; Vandoren V16 B9, Mouthpiece Cafe Supreme .120, No name mouthpiece I've had for years, Otto Link STM 7* refaced, Yanagisawa 5, Jody Jazz DVNY 7*, Theo Wanne Durga 1 8*, Rico Metalite B9 refaced, RPC .110R, Jody Jazz Jet 8, PPT Power .120, Jody Jazz DV 8.
Thank you very much, this list will help a lot of people.
The comparison is sensational.
Keith are wearing a interessting saxophon strap. Please let me know what brand and typ it is and if possible, where can I buy it. Many thanks.
Martin - The harness I use for both tenor and bari is a Gemini made by a Canadian Company called Nobcor . www.nobcor.com/gemini-straps-sax I have both the standard men's version (which I'm using in the video) as well as the "Ultimate" version which I prefer when I'm sitting down. I prefer the PC200 hook on mine which you can see here; www.nobcor.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=8153252 in the "Photos" section of their site. My original harness is over 20 years old now and I've had no issues with the plastic hook stretching or breaking.
They aren't easy to find in stores. The last time I bought one a few years ago I purchased it through a dealer on eBay. It looks like they are still listed on the Canadian eBay but maybe not the US version anymore. You may want to contact them directly to find the easiest way to get one where you are.
Overall, I have several harnesses by BG, Neotech, Protec, Jazzlab (Sax Holder), and a few others as well as many standard neck straps. I find the Nobcor works best for me.
Thanks for this!
What are the prices of these mouthpieces? Is there a way that you can put it in the description box what your using? I didn't catch what some of these are? Thank you. It was a great video!
There's a famous Bari Sax player Keith O'Rourke!🎷👍
Nope - unfortunately not. I think he's a much better player than I am and he's based in Canada I'm in Colorado.
Huh
I have problems with tuning on my old Beuscher Big B Baritone (1949) It seems that some mouthpieces are too sharp unless you back off the neck to the point where there's almost nothing left holding it on and it's wiggling around! I don't quite understand what's going on. For example, I have an Otto Link STM 7 (which is just ok sounding) and it fits the neck. However, my favorite sound is an E. Rousseau JDX7 and it's too sharp if you put it on the neck enough so that it is held firmly. Ever had this problem? Is it my sax?
Yes, it's your horn, at least to some extent. Many old vintage baris (Conns, Martins, Kings, & Bueschers) were designed to be played with mouthpieces that have larger chambers than most modern mouthpieces - what some of the old timers refer to as "pickle barrels" as they tend to be very large hard rubber pieces. There are a few different solutions but the two most popular are extending the shank of the mouthpiece or having the chamber modified to match the necessary volume required for the horn to play in tune. Contact Erik Greiffenhagen at mouthpieceguys.com and he can modify the chamber of one of your pieces or sell you one he has already modified to help with this problem.
BTW, the Barone bari I'm playing in the video is exactly the opposite; it plays a bit flat and prefers a mouthpiece with some baffle and a moderate size chamber. These days I mostly play it with a Drake bari mouthpiece that I bought a few months after I did the video.
Thanks for your help on this.
You're welcome & Good Luck
I own a really old bundy and I have the same problems too, I have my mouthpiece pretty much pushed in all the way and I can barely pull the mouthpiece out without it wiggling. So my horn is pretty much always sharp.
What ligature were you using on the Vandoren mouthpiece
It's just a standard Rovner or similar fabric lig. I think the Rovner size is 2RBL but I sent that piece back to the owner after I made the video so I can't be 100% sure. If I were playing that V16 full time I would get a Vandoren Optimum to fit it. That's my favorite lig for bari these days.
Do they still sell the Theo Wanne Durga anymore? I know they have the Durga 3 I just think the Durga 1 would be cheaper for my price range
I don't believe Theo still makes the original version. As they update their designs they stop producing the older versions. I have not had a chance to play the latest Durga bari mouthpiece (Durga 3) or the Shiva 2 for that matter but looking at pictures listening to clips and discussing them with folks who have direct experience with either or both leads me to believe that they are more efficient as well as brighter sounding than the original that I play in this video. The original design, IMO, was a bit off for what they were going for. It has a very high mid-length baffle which you'd expect to make the piece somewhat bright sounding but it also has a huge throat and chamber (characteristics that typically darken the sound and add some resistance) that required them to have a reducer (power ring) in the back of the chamber. The net result of all of this is a piece that looks like it's going to play bright but doesn't. The original Durga, in terms of sound and effort, plays a lot like a good Link STM which is fine if a big round sound is what you want.
The new Durga 3 appears to be designed more like a Berg or maybe an old Brilhart Level Air. The baffle looks a bit lower and a little longer but the throat and chamber are smaller and the reducer is gone. The result is a piece that's a bit brighter with more power and punch. I'm looking forward to getting a chance to try one of these Durga 3s because I believe it will play closer to the JJDV that I presently like as my primary bari piece.
The point is; the original Durga and Durga 3 are very different mouthpieces so while you can get a deal on a lightly used original Durga it's not going to play the same as a Durga 3 in terms of sound and response.
RidingEasttoWest oh okay thank you for telling me! I hear that both shiva 2 and Durga 3 are very loud sounding. But the shiva 2 is louder and harder to control with dynamics. So I might try the Durga 3 in the future, but I’ll also try the shiva 2
Do you have a link to the 2nd mouthpiece it would be great
Sure - that one was the Grande Supreme by Mouthpiece Cafe; www.mouthpiececafe.com/store
Sorry it took so long to post this; www.mouthpiececafe.com/product-page/supreme-baritone
Hey you still playing today?
Yup - pretty much every day though I split time between tenor, bari, and flute. Lots of time to practice now that there are virtually no gigs.
@@RidingEasttoWest that’s great to hear! Also I think you threw a pun in their with the “virtually” no gigs
What finish is the sax?
I'm the second owner and was told it was just plain gold lacquer when I bought it but I have a gold plated Barone tenor as well and this bari and the two look identical in color to me. I haven't worn enough of the outer finish off to see what is underneath yet but it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out to be gold plated instead of gold lacquered.
HI KIETH
puffing your cheeks while playing :(((((
im pretty sure that's for circular breathing
roni lol no
@@reynaldopalacios9473 yes I play sax
roni while yea you puff your cheeks out to circular breath but 1) it’s incredibly difficult to achieve circular breathing on bari due to the bigger mouthpiece and 2) he puffs his cheeks right away and stops playing so he can get more air
@@reynaldopalacios9473 While circular breathing is very possible on bari it just takes time, you guys need to realize that puffing your cheeks is not necessarily a bad habit when you're trying to achieve a certain sound. Look at greats Like Gillespie who even puffed while playing trumpet which arguably is much worse. Don't just blindly adopt what your teacher once told you (as long as you're not yet learning the basics - which he obviously isn't). Only by trying to find your own way music can develop.