The Better Naval Fighter ? F/A-18C Hornet Vs F-14B Tomcat | Digital Combat Simulator | DCS |
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On this channel we like to do a lot of dogfighting most videos are some sort of dogfight between 2 different aircraft as we explore their different capabilities. From time to time I like to dabble in Virtual Reality, I think VR is a great new technology and I love to show that stuff off for the channel from time to time.
If you enjoy war thunder or Microsoft flight simulator 2020 or even dogfighting in Battlefield 2042, consider getting yourself into Digital Combat Simulator by Eagle Dynamics, the Combat side of Aviation with the BVR and Dogfights really provides a different and interesting perspective on aviation. You can fly all kinds of combat aircraft including the F-16, F-15, F-14, JF-17, Su-27, Mig-29, Mirage and the F-18 Hornet along with many other aircraft and helicopters like the Ka-50 and Mi-8. - เกม
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Maybe also important to mention that one of the major reasons the Tomcat was retired was its High maintenance cost, it wasn't all about the combat capability. Hope you guys enjoyed the video thank you for watching.
I know the F-14 and AIM-54 are legendary, but I think the F-18 is suffering from the penalty being applied to all assets in DCS as they edge closer to present-day technology: classified information and current variants not present within DCS. You properly label the video with the F-18C, but I think a lot of casual viewers aren't taking into account the improvements from the C/D to the E/F variants, on top of the capabilities of the AIM-120D over the AIM-120C.
It's absolutely not your job to do so, but I think adding in a relatively small "analysis" of DCS versus reality in videos like this would be really useful and interesting for many viewers and give a boost to your content. Basically, see what professional defense analysts believe per public data (Google) and throw in some knowledge bombs for the audience to ponder as they watch some old 1980s/1990s tech go at it. The avionics differences alone would make a large difference in evaluating actual present-day carrier air wing performance; I don't believe AESA is modeled in DCS? Thanks for the video as always! 💙🦏
@Zechariah Goldsworthy He’s already done this matchup.
Can you please put the P-51 vs the Spitfire?
F-14 was shot down by politicians and preference lobby
@Zechariah Goldsworthy 16 Sabers, 1 Raptor, fight to the death.
DCS needs to become a full-blown e-sport, this is better then television.
agreee!
*than*
So down for that
That's an excellent idea
Agreed
"Who's the better pilot?"
"It's a nice moment, let's not ruin it."
good scene good scene
Ice man save your voice
Good culture 👌
hah!
Sad Iceman passed away but as a good wingman and Commander of the Pacific Fleet, he was always watching over him
“132 lbs of high explosive, jammed into a boat, launched at Mach 5.”
This might be the best sentence I’ve ever heard.
Former Tomcat and Super Hornet pilot "Jungle" Jones on the Tomcast said this about both aircraft. "If you had two newer pilots flying against each other, the Hornet would always win. If they were both veteran pilots, the Tomcat would always win."
I'm a cat person and this quote is sooooooo satisfying... 😉
Not true at all, dusted many F14s back in the days in mock myself. In fact made some look very stupid and eat their own words, yes veteran F14 pilots also. All in a F18A. The audacity of some people is hilarious. There's a reason the F14 was retired, don't believe all that maintenance talk, thats all smoke and mirrors.
@@MetaliCanuck By your tone, I think YOU are the liar, not him.
F16 rules them all.
@@MetaliCanuck take it up with Tomcast.
I don't always like to see Growling Sidewinder lose, but when I do, it's to an F-14 Tomcat.
I tell him every F14 vid that hes going against it, i root for him to lose.
Stay thirsty, my friend.
Or when he's in a Flanker getting formed up on by an F-22 Raptor.
@@katherineberger6329 funniest video he has
Haha, same bro.
if you're watching this and it's not in HD I apologize it's just youtube taking longer to process it, it will eventually be 4k.
Was kinda wondering why it's 720p, no problem though
Mate, I’m watching this on an IPad via 4g internet, 480 is a bonus!
Who cares about the HD? We're here for the good old Tomcat!
Now imagine an upgraded F14 with 2010s tech 🤯🤯
Please try this again in The F-18 Super Hornet!👍
"132 pounds of high explosive, stuffed into a boat, launched at mach 5" needs to be a shirt. lol
I would buy this.
They both fill their roles. No such thing as a perfect airframe/platform. The hornet platform has seen great success as a very versatile platform with air to ground missions.
Yeah, the Bug was an excellent light attack aircraft that has an air-air side mission. The Tomcat was an excellent Air Superiority fighter that had a ground attack side mission. ST21 probably would have been the best at both missions until taken over by 5th gen.
@@brianwright9514 I assume you are referring to the Hornet.
I've heard it called a Rino.
@@peterweller8583 Rhino is Super Hornet.
The F 14D Tomcat was actually the bomb platform of choice by grunts on the ground during OEF.
F-14 was never really used as an A2G fighter the option was there, but not I don't think it was ever used. At the time the A-6 was the A2G carrier aircraft. One of the F/A-18 was selected was because efficient with space on a carrier. A multirole goes a long way of filling two roles instead of sharing space for two different planes.
See here’s the thing, the Tomcat gets you on the defensive earlier, so even if all the aim-54s miss by the time you merge, you’ll theoretically be in a worse kinematic position
Also, in a real scenario where they kept the Tomcat, the Phoenix would have improved drastically over the years. Especially with that massive circumference to house a radar seeker.
@@Noisy_Cricket That's if they choose to keep the Phoenix missiles that long enough for improvement or a new doctrine of fighting emerges. As essentially all the Phoenixs did here was a super expensive way of just baiting out the F/A-18c into defending himself.
@@Noisy_Cricket More likely was that the Tomcat would have been given the AMRAAM.
@@tinglydingle Yes the F-14D was capable of usinng the AMRAAM, They were never deployed however.
@@Miratesus I think you're mistaken, an AMRAAM update was part of the planned upgrades to F-14 for the D model, but was cancelled; no F-14 was capable of firing the AMRAAM.
I have never seen the F18 turned into a paddle board before. Very interesting strategy to keep hitting the notch hoping he runs out of missiles.
This is predicated on the fact that he knows there is a tomcat out there gunning for him so does preemptive notches. How different would it have been if he was just on patrol and not "expecting" the tomcat to be there?
@@Dieselbuilder you can't notch without the Tomcat painting you and hence ending up on your RWR. So by definition if you're notching you've already been alerted to the Tomcat's presence
@@dsdy1205 but he stated that he didn't have a RWR contact yet but he knew that the tomcat could probably see him so he did a preemptive notch.
@@Dieselbuilder ah sorry
@@Dieselbuilder if you’re flying against a country with tomcats, you’re *going* to expect a tomcat to be out there, especially with AWACS in the air and Datalink scanning.
Retired too soon and never fully replaced, apg-71 radar would be locking up targets 470 miles away if it was still in service. Aim-54d or E variant by now and with 1.3 Mach cruise would of been a dream
This would apply to any fighter. It is a rule that any abandoned project seems better than the stuff we have now. Interesting psychology. The Hornet too has a couple of "what if", for example the "Super Hornet 2000" proposal, a contender for the Eurofighter.
Tell that to the Pentagon’s budget folks…
I've heard that what replaced the F-14 wasn't the hornet but the increase of naval fleet protection systems like the SM-2 and 3 projects.
Never fully replaced the capabilities, but it had to go away. The original A and A+(B) airframes were just flat beat. If you read up about the maintenance and man hours it took to keep the aircraft mission ready you would understand why. Even the D version technology wise was way behind other fighter aircraft at this point. It was time and the Navy was hoping the F35 was going to be online alot sooner than it was.
Something else we can blame Dick Cheney for
Hornet: "I'll get up close and finish this fight!"
Tomcat: "I'll end it before you even get close."
... is what I wish it would say. But this sentence practically describes the two different roles these aircraft have. Great video. 👍
Aside from the abysmal combat radius, a current Super Hornet armed with Amraams, frankly, is vastly superior to any Tomcat armed with Phoenix. And you can have twice the firepower for the same cost. I'm not saying that one is better than the other: is difficult to compare fighters from different eras, conceived to fill different roles.
@@andreabindolini7452 there’s also the maintenance to flight hour ratio. I believe the hornet is something like 6:1 maintenance to flight where the tomcat was much higher at around 12:1.
I still believe the tomcat was a better air to air platform, but the hornet is more versatile and cost efficient.
@@andreabindolini7452 - Not just abysmal range, but the lack of speed...
The "fact" of the matter is that a modern Tomcat would be armed with AMRAAMs as well and I think the Tomcat would still come out on top.
@@randomrandomnesss2188 The Tomcat inherited various components from the F-111B: engines, radar, main armament. Consequently, the design was kinda a compromise, primarily needed to assure the bring back of the costly Phoenix missiles. It was a brilliant design, actually lighter than a fixed-wing design intended to achieve the same results with the technology of the time. But a complex design, outclassed by newer and more modern configurations (compare with the far simpler, fixed wing on the F-15), costly, a nightmare to mantain... in the tight spaces of an aircraft carrier. And conceived for virtually a single role... that gradually vanished over time.
Rhino: "I pity the fool who thinks DCS even knows me."
Yeah, the Rhino is literally Mr. T.
The Lot 20 Hornet in DCS is lightyears more advanced than the late 60s early 70s avionics in the DCS Tomcat, the Tomcats advantages are all kinematic. It can get higher, faster, and go farther with missiles that do the same. Your doing a great job of discussing those differences and showing how to fight them from the Hornet driver perspective. There are a few other tricks a Tomcat crew can do (need a human RIO) to mitigate some of your counters too. This match can really come down to crew.
🤣🤣🤣 so and upgraded tomcat or the ast tomcat with upgraded avionics won’t outperform a short leg hornet lol tomcat 21 would smoke a f22 you can always upgrade the avionics missile etc etc but can’t change platform kinematic design without designing a whole new aircraft
@@williamjr5825 can’t smoke the F22 when you get shot down without even knowing where the missile came from
You do realize that the F-14 won this engagement right? with Jester too and if you think the tomcats advantages are all kinematic then I might going to laugh. Sure it's strongest points are getting to fire it's Fox 3s at the longest range and it can also win a dogfight easy in visual engagements as the tomcat can nearly out turn 99% of any fighter in DCS. The hornet is a jack of trades but a master of none. The one thing I think the hornet does better in dogfighting is that it's easier to fly and with it easy radar systems.
@@vexingrabbit1824 while me and the American doctrine agree the age of dogfighting is over you stil on about dogfighting 🤣🤣🤣 sensors radars are getting better strap on a hypersonic missile a bomber kill any fighter anytime
“It’s not the plane, it’s the pilot.” “What is achievable comes down to the pilot in the box.”
Learning about the Tomcat's history and capabilities has definitely helped me come to appreciate it more than I did in the past. Always saw it as The Plane That Top Gun Fans Rave About Even Though The F-15 Is /Right There/, but realising just how huge its engagement range is really helps put into perspective what an important plane it was for the future of BVR.
From a purely aesthetic point of view , the Tomcat is the most beautiful jet fighter ever made . And i say that as someone who doesn't really like modern aviation altogether .
It's sleek , has harmonious and pleasing curves and a smooth design , unlike more modern fighters that barf random polygons for wings ...
@@Tomcat_Coyote well the wing shape in modern jets is to negate radar. Not really random
@@dakotaclement7751 I know it's not random , i'm just saying it looks like randomly shaped polygons jutting out from the airframe . Not to mention , it's not negating radars since stealth fighters can be tracked on radar like any other aircraft , they can just get further before being locked and potentially lose a radar tracking faster than non-stealth .
As much as I love the F15 it can't replicate what the F14 does without significant changes otherwise the Navy would have used it. To make the F15 land and take off from a carrier and be able to use the Phoenix missile which was a Navy requirement at the time required thousands of extra kg weight which meant it was not feasible.
@@Tomcat_Coyote Love the F-14 but I'm more partial to f-4 phantoms and f-104 stargazer both were crazy planes in their day love them beauties..
I think in terms of these two aricraft the line from Top Gun Maverick "It's the pilot, not the plane" is actually very true.
It's how well the pilot can make use of the plane. There's the planes capabilities, and the pilot's ability to make use of the capabilities of their bird.
@@gillhewerfamily6550. Exactly
The closer you get, the more you should consider a 4- or 6-bar scan. You already have his rough azimuth from the RWR, you were just looking a tad too high with the radar. And the 2-bar scan gets real narrow in elevation up close.
@Bu8813z It's considerably wider than the HUD is though. You can lock things well outside of the azimuth of the HUD.
@@cas343 that’s why he said HMCS and not HUD
@@thumpusthewumpus8946 He said hud also. And the HMCS does show planes that are locked on it.
The Tomcat required 60 man-hours of maintenance per 1 hour of flight.
The hornet requires 9 man-hours of maintenance per 1 hour of flight.
As a current Navy jet maintainer, I'm happy I don't work on Tomcats, as sexy as they are.
Even for its age, the sheer amount of offensive pressure the tomcat can provide from range is impressive. I understand the budget, upkeep and personnel requirements, but getting rid of her was a huge mistake. Your understanding of the defensive offense is great btw. Always learn something watching your channel.
When a 14 is in the sky everybody's head turns towards her
She was getting old, and replacing the wing pivots would have been extremely costly and a major hassle, and thats before you even get into all the other stuff you'd have to swap out to keep them viable in the current environment.
That said the F 14 was an amazing platform, it'd be interesting to see how a complete overhaul like the F 18 had for the Super Hornet variant would have gone.
Imagine F14 gets the same treatment as other 4th gen+ fighters, how scary is that...
Seems like a good tactic to defeat notching would be to fire missiles in pairs. Crank one direction, fire, then crank the opposite direction and fire a second, so they come in from different angles.
When they're as far away as they were, you'd need to fly for so long to get any real change in direction that the F-18 would have already notched the first missile.
the way the F-14's phoenixes work is that they're basically fox 1s till pitbull, so that wouldn't work unless you had AMRAAMs so that you could break lock with one so that they can only notch one.
The missile knows where it is at all times, it knows this because it knows where it isn't. By substracting where it is from where it isn`t, or where it isn`t from where it is, whichever is greater, it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate directive commands to drive the missile from a position where it is to a position where it isn`t, and arriving at a position where it wasn`t, it now is.
This has become a tradition
The Old Technology was great in it's day. Both units will attack at distance. Especially if they are protecting their Carrier. Air Combat is not a movie. It's a cold hearted task, and *Duty First*
And that's air.
How is it sure where it wasn’t is where it isn’t?
I really would have loved to see the Super Tomcat idea come to life. Such a beautiful jet
Today, I saw a Tomcat setting in the runway when landing at the IFN and man that was beautiful 😍❤️ Thanks for the video.
What a glorious sighting. One I fear I will never be able to know.
@@IRUKANJI go to NYC, to the Intrepid Air and Space Museum. See a Tomcat (and a Phoenix missile (training one I think)) from a few meters away. Next to a Blackbird, and a Viper. With a Concorde next to the CV. And a friggin Space Shuttle in the hangar on top of the rear of the flight deck.
Where?
@@giantnanomachine that's a sight I wish I was able to see😂❤️
@@Kotai-Matrix69 Isfahan International airport in Iran wich is next to the Isfahan Airbase, home of the some Persian Tomcats
"In a series of 34 air to air engagements between the F-18 Hornet and the F-14 Tomcat the F-18 pilot was able to outmanoeuvre his adversary and get into position for a rear-hemisphere gun shot on 20 occasions. The F-18 pilot maneuvered his way to a rear hemisphere aim 9 sidewinder shot on 4 occasions, and the remaining 4 engagements were deemed inconclusive. Not once had the F-14 Tomcat achieved a firing solution against the F-18."
World Air Power Journal volume 1 Spring 1990
Once the initial missile volley is launched, the F14 maintains a clear 30-50% speed advantage for the rest of the fight. A sure fire method for getting away from incoming shots and pressing your own advantage. I also believe that TLC must be quite proficient with the F-14. Plus it helped it was a B model.
Never underestimate the Tomcat. She may be old but she still has sharp fangs.
These 1 vs 1 fights are fun but let's see a large force on force dogfight, like 12 vs 12 engagement, guns only. That'd be a fun test.
I'd be interested to see a more realistic fight over contested airspace, we all know these sort of fights aren't in a quarantined bubble like in this video. I know GS is mainly committed to putting two aircraft against each other with no other interferences to get to see the true performance of them in BFM, and other channels do this sort of thing, but it would be very interesting to see a GS video in a realistic environment - ie a strike mission with a fighter escort, intercepted by bandits with SAMs, etc.
Sharp claws
I don't think the F-18 Hornet replaced the Tomcat. It served along side it. The Tomcat was replaced by the F-18 Super Hornet. While they share the same designation, the Rhino is a much more capable fleet defense and BVR fighter than the Hornet.
in terms of trust to weight ratio?
The role of the tomcat(long range air superiority and bombers interception) was less and less needed as the time passed, the hornet wasn't really a replacement but a new concept of a fighter-the multirole.
@@shepherdlavellen3301 Range and especially radar. The AESA radar in the SH is far superior to the Hornet radar.
Hornet replaced A4 A6 A7 F4.
@@jporter504 Just so you know the APG-79 is being put into F18C Marine Hornets and Canadian F-18A's.
When the missiles hit each other at the 10ish min mark was awesome!!
The Tomcat deserved a better fate in real life than being under-utilised, shelved, and shredded like it was. The Super Tomcat might’ve been a real mean aircraft
the problem was its cost, especially later in its service life. It was always an expensive plane that couldn't be used as well as the legacy hornet could or super hornet can in multirole.
Yeah, you were busy with the helmet-mounted sight, glass cockpit, and fly-by-wire you could not fight 😉
If Tomcats had fully received AMRAAM capability it would have been full on beast mode. You hardly ever see anyone using Sparrows in DCS.
If I am within 15nm it's sparrow time. Underrated missile
@Bu8813z even 4 is excessive. I would rather go into a fight with 3/2/2 than 2/2/4
I saw a video here where a test pilot, I believe, said they had modified the Phoenix hardpoints to carry 2 AMRAMMs each for a total of 12. Or that they COULD modify the hardpoints. Shame it was denied due to being “too expensive”.
@Bu8813z yeah negligent fox 3 shots are a great way to kill a friendly lol.
@@MrSunshine1079 would be easier to use the AIM-9 rails, AIM-120s can fire off of those (Vipers, Hornets and Eagles do this). Tomcats could carry 4 AIM-9s underwing - 2 on the existing rails and 2 on rails attached to the adjacent hardpoints (they were able to use all 3 missiles on the underwing hardpoints), so it wouldn’t have been too difficult to modify the hardpoints to carry AIM-120s. Maybe more of a case of radar compatibility?
Now imagine a Tomcat carrying 4 AIM-54s underbelly and 4 AIM-120s underwing… totally overkill, completely unnecessary, highly impractical, but very intimidating.
"See? Clean? It's that easy."
I've been on this channel long enough to know that overconfidence in BVR has a nice big radar signature...
I can't help but feel like the only reason the Hornet had a fighting chance is that you know that the Tomcat was out there, approximately where it was, and that there were no other planes in the air. Had neither side known the position of the other and had to discern between enemy and commercial planes I feel like the Tomcat would have smoked you effortlessly.
Bang on! Tomcat is the King of the Sky!
The 9X seems surprisingly easy to trash despite all the improvements.
Well the tomcat was nose hot and he pre flared, so yeah not that surprising.
@@oberstleutnantschuldt8504 the angle of the tomcat also really helped and it wasnt on burner
If it was the 9X blk 2 then it wouldn't matter since it knows what are flares and what aren't.
While using better IRCCM, the angle of which you fitted also determines how well a fox 2 can be.
Base model 9X is similar in line of Magic 2 and R-73 for flat resistant and irccm
If there are cars that are a "drivers car" I feel like the Tomcat is a "fighter pilot's plane"... It may not be the best but it's the one that separates the "grown ups" from the "children".
Yeah, and after you sharpen your skills with a big cat, you switch to classic fighters like f16 and Jeff and don't understand why you loved them, they seems so grey, standard, without anything really outstanding
Was not at all expecting that outcome! Tomcat (and driver) was a beast in this one. Gotta see a rematch sometime in the near future
Never expected to see missiles take each other out too
This a perfectly well done fight. At the end of the day it’s going to come down to pilot skill over everything else. My hope is since we’re getting the f15E, we could possibly see a proper avionic comparable f18 such as the E or the F super hornets
Agree, and it seems the F18 radar isn't as good as it once was (DCS).
If done right the F-15 should win at range and have a harder time in a dog fight. It is a big plane after all. F-15 is still the most dominate A2A fight as shoot down ratios go.
@@Paxton171 true. It’s designed to eliminate targets before getting into the ACM. But yes In a dogfight the hornet will be more dominant.
@@a_crows_edits2745 Only at slow speeds and in one circle. F-15 has more energy, better wing loadinq, higher acceleration, is dominant in vertical. Especially at high altitudes is the superior aircraft. Sure the rule against the Hornet is: don't mess with it when low and slow.
Having grown up with the Tomcat it did my heart good to see the F14 win, no offense. My buddies and I drooled and hero worshipped this bird and almost went on a week long bender when it was taken out of service. Cool vid.
Excellent comments about the Phoenix missile and Iranian combat experience with it. I know far too many people, including some former fighter pilots, who think the Phoenix was ineffective against fighters, but as pointed out here, that is most certainly not the case.
Stands to reason that a Phoenix fired within 30 miles from a Tomcat that’s already going Mach 1.5 minimum is going to close distance quicker than it’s target can get out of the way, negating it’s need to manoeuvre to chase the target.
Its especially weird, considering that it was literally designed to do that, and at 130mi.
Now, granted, the furthest you'd actually shoot them is 70mi, so they couldn't just turn and burn to outrun it, but still.
In every test I remember seeing as a boy, Phoenix missiles hit 4-5 out of 6 targets.
With two f14's that'd always be in the air around a carrier group, that means you could reliably threaten 8 planes.
I have to admit I was rooting for the Tomcat because it has a higher top speed, has more range and... well, honestly, it's nostalgia. But regardless, time and again you prove the adage: "It's not the plane, it's the pilot". You take the "weaker" aircraft and triumph over the newer, "better" plane. You play to the strengths of your plane, and the weaknesses of the other plane, wait for the other pilot to make a mistake, then capitalize on it! That, after all, was what "Top Gun" and "Red Flag" were created for.
That tomcat shot flying away in the sky like we were watching it from the ground was subtly profound.
Like you saw a glimpse of an angry angel. Almost MACROSS like.
As an F-15-only player I appreciate a good BVR fight with good commentary on what's happening. Thanks!
I loved how you can slowly see as at the start when he is really calm, before progressing to just towards the end when you start speaking faster and panicking, really emphasises the tension, great video!
"Gimme tone.......Fox 2!" Said with such confidence. A split second later you're KIA. I was stunned for a sec going "What......what happened?...." It could have almost been a movie scene.
Current Navy super hornets would probably slap a tomcat in both BVR and BFR. Mostly due to the more modern sensors and weapons, current Super Hornets have the APG-79 AESA radar which is lightyears ahead of what the Tomcat had, AIM-120D's are also a thing too. But one can argue that the F14 had more room to grow, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to fit an AESA radar, better engines and more on the Tomcat. Its airframe was massive. It would require hollowing the old tomcat out and replacing almost everything but it in theory could be better
A modernized F-14 would be totally superior than Super Hornet, a giant AESA radar, a modernized Phoenix that would have hundreds of kilometers of range, AIM-120D wouldn't even be able to compete, AIM-120D would be the equivalent of the Sparrow for a modernized Tomcat, Super Hornet is a good multirole aircraft but simply can't compete, Tomcat is a pure fighter, a modernized Tomcat would be like a flying SAM platform, probably too much for what they needed.
@@Maverick966 the f14 would be so expensive to upgrade , it doesnt even have fly-by-wire , let alone change all the avionics
@@ELITE-xn3sh F-14D already had modern avionic like the Hornet except fly-by-wire, of course it would cost a lot to upgrade but only because it is 30 years old and was not upgraded constantly like the Hornet or Super Hornet, the cost would have been spreaded over the years if it was upgraded constantly.
Hey growling, you know I love your content, I have ONE request, is it possible to see your throttle position in an upcoming F16 video? Once my rig is together I want to get in and learn the F16. Have a great day bud, awesome vid by the way.
When I was a kid I LOVED the Tomcat, and the Phantom, my dad made me models and would hang them in my room. I had a really cool B-17 that he used a soldering gun to punch bullet holes and flak holes in it. Ever since than I've loved military aircraft.
Total chess match between the F18 and F14 in BVR so long as both pilot know how to defend the opponent's missles!!! Love it!!
I don't remember, did you pit the F14B against the F18 in a guns only dog fight?
The Tomcat is such a nice looking plane, but the Hornet is so much more fun to fly cause its a bit more modern with its systems.
I think the exact opposite, but I’m old school with machines.
I like tinkering with carb engines. I prefer old firearms to new ones.
I like working with machines that you constantly tune and tinker with. The F-14 is fun and quirky. Plane has a lot of personality.
Its true, so sad that we do not have F-14D Super Tomcat in DCS
I would’ve said it was more rewarding flying the Tomcat once you master the big girl and her older avionics. Modern aircraft hold your hand a lot and guide you without letting you stray, older aircraft give you their hand, and once you have earned it they let you lead the way no matter what you do or where you go.
You can also switch the target on screen time to 18 or 32 seconds from the data page. It also changes how long track files stay on radar. Pretty useful in tws when u need to constantly notch, will help u reacquire targets faster.
Damn, I still can't get over how in so many of your videos there are natural jumps ares where you just suddenly die and it goes all black. Really entertaining to watch
Total victory for the 14. It ended up winning the fight, but the coolness battle is over before it begins. If one plane is the Tomcat and one isnt. I respect the 18 but I love the 14.
Thanks for an ace video. I really struggle with BVR but watching your vids certainly help.
Thank you GS for the Tomcat fights and to taco for his great flying keep up the content buddy everyone loves it.
“ Everyone has a plan , until they get punched in the mouth” - Mike (Iron) Tyson
That was badass. More all-in fights like this!!!
What in the hell was the energy management in this fight? 250 knots with the throttles shut, Launching .5 mach lol
9:44 - imagine suddenly seing a tictac shaped ufo poping in instead of f-14 :D "It's closing in very quickly! Wait, it dissapeared... There it is again. It's rotating, look at that thing!" :D
It is now time for Battle of the Canards II: A 4 way fight between the Eurofighter Typhoon, the Dassault Rafale, the JAS39 Gripen, and the SU33 Flanker-D. May the best canard win.
Probably the best F18 vs F14 (non dogfight) video out there! Great job!
I wish I knew these terms you were saying. It was like watching someone in an actual jet engage. I hope to be like you in the future.
That was an intense engagement! Well done!
This looks like it came down to ACM range because defending BVR is too easy, or at least you two made it look pretty easy. I'm not sure his ability to yeet two AIM-54s at you before you could even see him actually made much of a difference.
But the fact that you started this off by saying something to the effect of "I can't see him on my radar, but I'm going to assume he's already launched a Phoenix at me" does speak volumes about the capability of both the AIM-54 Phoenix missile and the AWG-9 radar.
Good stuff as always. As a fan of airplanes since a kid, I've learned so much through your videos about how they actually work. I know you did an excellent video in the past, but given all the updates and stuff (like new subscribers), I'd really enjoy a new video explaining the notch and how to perform it; maybe in different common craft vs. commonplace peer foe missiles
I once read that the AIM-54C was one of the best tools to make an enemy pilot waste energy jinking so that when the big Cat got close it would have the upper hand in energy. Looking at how slow you were getting GS, do you feel that assessment is accurate?
I feel like he lowered his throttle a lot tho
@@Tiro_Chopper he was, but it seems to be do to avoiding AIM54 shots.
Apologize for a lack of knowledge here, but if the f18 could not see or have any lock on the tomcat a longer distance but the tomcat pilot could see and lock the f18, couldn’t the tomcat change course and use it’s speed and knowledge of the targets location to go out position the f18? Making the phoenix missiles a little more of a surprise?
Yes, and a real pilot would do exactly that.
They'd also watch their missile trail deviation and do a rough triangulation.
I'd imagine by the 3rd, the f14 pilot would know he was being notched, and would climb instead and then reengage from altitude, which would also negate the ability to notch by changing the geometry directly (perpendicular is easy on a horizontal plane, notsomuch on a vertical one) and since he wasn't seen on the radar said climb would have also preserved standoff.
One small correction: the legacy Hornet (C model) did not replace the Tomcat. The Super Hornet (E/F models) took over the Tomcat's role. The legacy Hornet shared deck space with the Cat since 1986.
The whole time you were defending against the phoenix missiles, I was just waiting for that tell-tale high pitched whistle and BANG!
I kept hearing about the "notch" position. I now understand. It makes you invisible to doppler radar. Thanks.
Hmm very good BVR instruction video. Remarkable how effective the beam defensive maneuver is against the AIM 54 and Sparrow but the good 'ol Sidewinder 9M was having none of that crap.
It's clear the F-14 pilot was aware of your usual tactics and burst straight through the MAR to get at you.
I wonder if the Chinese pilots will be so aggressive over the Sth China Sea in the near future when faced with incoming ordnance?
The Chinese think lowly of their opponents so I hope their arrogance gets the better of them.
Very solid fight. thanks.
The Super Hornet replaced the Tomcat, not the Hornet. The Super Hornet has longer range and better thrust-to-weight than the Hornet, which makes a big difference in fleet defense and air-to-air combat.
I've heard a few pilots say the OG Hornet actually had the better performance compared to the SH. The SH is draggy, especially with the canted outward pylons. Just my 2 cents.
no hornet variant was meant to replace the Tomcat, its capabilities just weren't needed anymore, because there was no need for high performance interceptors for fleet defence, and more hornets could be carried in the same hangars. Ultimately though, the decision not to use the proposed super tomcat variant was probably a mistake, with the rising threat of China and the increased versatility of the much larger F-14 airframe modified for multi-role use offering increased range, payload capacity and radar size. You saw in this video how the much older tomcat's larger radar locked onto the hornet a long way before the hornet locked the tomcat.
@@davidlow8104 You're right about the absence of need for the role nowadays, but with modern radar tech such as on modern Super Hornets or the F35C, you don't benefit that much from having an f14's size/power. Not to mention from what I understand the AN/APG 65 is meant to have a better detection range than is represented in DCS.
Also, though the F14 was a larger airframe, it had relatively limited multi-role capability, even legacy hornets were significantly better suited to that mission set, let alone super hornet and f35.
@@willsabri4815 I was referring to the planned 'super tomcat' which would use new systems and would have full multi role capaility
As soon as the Kenny logins starts playing you know you're cooked.
Well, the six-on-six Phoenix test had at least one small plane (a P-80, I as recall), although they def. were not attempting to notch or evade the missiles.
Early demonstration tests of the Phoenix were heavily domesticated.
This is by far one of the best explanations I have ever heard! Thank you!
Funny, I had the same thing a couple of times in the Hornet. Shot down Irani Phoenix with my AMRAAMs by accident
I feel TWS in auto bugging mode is better than "manual" lock in RWS. Gives me much faster reaction time. Also I narrow the scanning azimuth to 20-40° if I know where the bandit is.
Thanks for your explanation about what is going on in air combat, it’s a mystery to most non fighter pilots.
great vid bro and ur server's are also great real deal stuff. keep up the great work.
I absolutely love your content, your knowledge, and love the debriefs!
You got knocked the eff out in the first round! I was not expecting that.
I always believed the Tomcat was retired since it was designed as an interceptor turn key dogfighter made to interceptor Soviet supersonic TU-160 and their MiG escorts.
The Hornet and later Super Hornet is more of a multirole designed for both dogfighter and ground attack, and of course designed ground up for newer avionics.
It mostly comes down to cost - keeping both the F-14 and F/A-18 in service would have been cost prohibitive, and given the Super Hornet now can do 90% of what the Tomcat could do without the need to do the long range intercept of the Phoenix missiles, the AMRAAM equipped F/A-18 is enough to do the job.
8:59 THAT SOUND DUDEEEEEEE.
If you have not already heard of it, look up a missile exercise called "6 on 6" the Tomcat did way back. I was part of the target control team. Just a tech really. Pretty cool job tho.
I would to see a battle of the “Supers” F18 E/F vs F14 D.
One could argue this is a good example of a modern dogfight, BVR and closing.
Funny story I heard about the Phoenix Missile: it was designed but not a single fighter in existence was capable of safely carrying and deploying it, so they made the F-14 Tomcat to fit the missile, not the other way around.
I haven’t reached first engagement yet but I’ll say the Tomcat is my favorite but my gut says the Hornet will win.
i love those intense vids. They keep you guessing. Great flying by Taco)
Been wanting to see this because im debating on buying one or the other thanks for helping clear up somethings between the two
@@possiblepilotdeviation5791 thats the least of your troubles 😂
Here’s your “my commander said it was an evolution” for the TH-cam algorithm
6:10 looks like his phoenix took out two of your amraams
“Fox 2!”
Gets smacked instantly
That was one hell of a fencing match.
The Navy should bring back the F-14 Tomcat but order the Super Tomcat version
Would love to see 12 on 12 top tier of each aircraft, full loads of best weapons each could have carried, crew choice. May the best crews and airframes win.
I love these BVR videos. Like a game of chess but with your life.
The Hornet really replaced the A-6/A-7 it's more of an Attack jet that has the ability to fight its ways into an AO.
what a fight... iam surprised, that you did not fly the Tomcat as your favorite aircraft.
"Its about the pilot not the plane" just like what maverick says
I have been so addicted to these videos man