It would pay the state to train the many young people scratching around needing and looking for a job. The increased trained staff would ease the shortage and expense of looking for skilled workers.
There's lots happened over the past 30 years or so which has brought us to the current (heehee) state. Abandonment of proper apprenticeships in favour of cheaper training schemes. Encouraging everyone into IT sector, making trades look unattractive. Deskilling the industry by thinking plug and play systems would make things easy, and it turns out its not. Even using migrant labour, it might work in things like concreting or steel, where its very much the same all over the world. But wiring regs are a different animal in every nation, so we can't fill the gap effectively using overseas workforce.
I've been trying for an adult traineeship last 5 years, tupe to a slightly better company but now realised it was the manager that is the issue, even the young qualified spark I work who's requested his testing to be able to do his job right has been brushed aside, we work in FM and can't get training to do our jobs safely and correct....companies just dont want to invest in any one these days which is sad and frustrating
@@singbob Its difficult for adult trainees. Essentially as an adult you can't work for the same money that an 18 year old trainee with no living expenses can. That's the first difficulty for adult trainees trying to get a break, plus you're probably less malleable and could already have bad habits which take some getting rid of. In FM there's no real benefit to putting staff through electrical inspection and testing, as there's rarely any install as such to need certification. They'll use sub contractors when new install and certs are required. Working safely can easily be achieved through in house training. The bigger FM companies should have decent in house training courses, along with elearning modules.
because of the ridiculous way apprenticeships are handled by the rules these days, i am a one man band working for another one man band as a subbie,,,, we get 10 calls a week minimum from enthusiastic college students, all the best to them by the way, because someone lazily googled
I'm always suspicious when big companies say 'We can't find enough quality people and they are asking for too much money'. That just shouts that they don't understand Supply and Demand. If you want more quality people because there's not enough, then you literally have to offer more money.
@@randeknight Maybe its your good self that doesn't understand supply and demand. Money doesn't create quality people, there simply isn't the supply of quality people in the first place.
@@idi0tdetectioninprogress Sure, if those people literally don't exist, eg. physicists capable of creating hyperwarp space travel. But if you tell me you literally can't find ANY americans capable of agricultural work at ANY price, then I'm calling BS.
@CBE-d6j They're two completely different subjects. Young people don't look to allied trades in anything like the numbers they used to do. When they can dick around with a laptop in a smart office, why would they. That's one reason for skill shortages, there simply isn't the numbers there in the first place. The second point is kids aren't trained anywhere near standards of the past. This is twofold. Training schemes are poor at the college end of learning. Also the way companies operate, with cut throat deadlines and prices, doesn't lend itself to apprentices being given the time and opportunity to develop well. Plus, everything gets subbed out, so trainees don't develop across the whole range of wiring and systems that older people did. So we are left with qualified sparks, who although many have a high opinion of themselves, are really quite poor in their performance and standards. We could pay a £1000 an hour but it wouldn't make them good tradesmen.
to be fair when i started the class was filled to the brim with eager joeys after about a month it was less then half full as a former training officer ( the fella that over saw the trainees ) the standards of education from schools was terrible basic math basic physics no longer seem to be taught to the required level let alone the basic skills of using saws screwdrivers and hammers , you need some basic carpentry skills at least but its no longer a subject in schools there are some kids who WANT to do the job but lack the basic help i am an advocate of trade schools for 15 year olds to go into to learn these skills and be set on the path , but for years governments have ignored these pleas and continued down the road of importing substandard labour and with "media studies" courses
I requalified at age 46 and saw that many of the younger students at college could barely read or write and one even had his ipod plugged into his ears at least 5 hours a day!
Makes you wonder why the firms hire lads like that, almost certainly so they exploit them and use them as cheap labour, I was about 8 years older than the lads at college and saw the same thing too, but plenty of lads there were decent and keen
We had 2 the other day, old listed buildings, about 5 sockets total, took us under an hour (each)... the cert took 1 and a half hours (satisfactory but a boatload of c3's) and every c3 needs a note....
4:33 Temu is registered in the Cayman Islands, but lists its principal office as being in Dublin - so that's within the EU - which begs the question of whether they could be prosecuted within the EU for breaking safety standards and having misleading advertising.
Shocker, Temu, a Platform known for selling the cheapest of the cheapest landfill products sold fake safety gear. I know money is always tight for everyone but when it comes to personal safety kit you shouldn't buy cheap or you'll pay in a more costly way later on.
@robertburrows6612 Too many middle men and by the time the wages get down to the people doing it, it’s not worth your time or money unless you behave like the drive by testers that are doing it. It’s dangerous as well.
I don't have an NVQ, but I had several electricians in my company for an interview, all of them were with NVQ, but they just couldn't draw a two-way lighting circuit. Some of them had Inspection and testing certs, which they received very recently. I think C&G made all these exams a lot easier.
A guy came to do survey to my electrical consumer unit , I paid him 280 pounds .Luckily I had to ope my panel and do some checks also rewire my loft! I found the neutral cable which it was supplying the ring sockets downstairs, kitchen and lights was completely loose , almost hanging in the air !
Our friendly little robot that will record and track everything we do. I wonder by what edition of BS7671 electricians will be required to sleep next to them?
Wonder how long it’s going to be until all the temu off brand ‘wagos’ start breaking down and causing fires. I see too many sparks using them and thinking all will be fine.
The house we used to live in recently( we left sept 2023) had terrible electrics.. the electric oven and hob were wired in with old block connectors and selotape ! No wall mount spur boxes .. I ended up clipping the wire to the wall and installing spur boxes .. it looked hundred times better and was safer for sure! TBH the whole kitchen had been a kitchen too long but the landlord rented it out just 2 weeks after we’d moved out even though black mould was rife too !
Watching over the years lads dropping out of the electrical course at our local college is really sad. Every year you know straightaway the few that will mess around and not last long - but unlike the old days the Teacher can’t just kick them out for disrupting others. Then there are the eager ones who are totally out of their depth but struggle on as long as possible and there are those poor guys who are told at enrolment that there is help for those that aren’t brill at maths - there’s not! For those who just scrape through, they will stay as a ‘Mate’ - if they can get a job in the trade at all. Surely, it would be much better for the kids if they were set a level maths that they MUST achieve BEFORE starting on the course - making it easier for them but it would also definitely help the Tutors (who would be amazed when their students understand their subject from the off)!
World of difference in hammering a landlord, and curing the 50 houses a day drive by testing circus. Makes me wonder why the Borough council was involved in the first place, that usually only happens if there's an unresolved dispute. If the landlord's been letting the place through local authority, then more fool them.
As a mature student I have and continue to struggle getting into the industry. For me the biggest problem has been people aren't prepared to give adults a chance (even when offering to work for free). You can't really get on an apprenticeship so college is the only real avenue. I have my 18th edition, level 2 and level 3 electrical installation but none of it seems to help getting my foot in the door. I'm constantly approaching electricians and agencies for opportunities so I can build enough experience to go for me 2391. If I went for the exam I might pass but I'm not prepared to attempt it until I'm confident I know what I'm doing. Passing an exam doesn't prove anything as far as I'm concerned. My safety and that of others is far more important.
Wonder if it’s about time that safety certs should be available online - the ability to look up and download by testing facilities would prevent folk changing names on certs.
Across all trades nobody wants to train anyone. Small businesses are scared of people leaving. Large businesses can pay more to get the staff and have no need to train them. Minimum of 4 years to get anywhere and all the stress and people needing money NOW to get by and don't have the breathing space to work for peanuts. But even in my own apprenticeship you're not trusted to do certain things and get really good at everything else. No wonder people get flustered when they're thrown in at the deep end. Then you learn you can earn more in facilities with career progression available in the structure, or working in a factory without getting stuck in traffic or out late, call ours 3 hours away, etc. The industry, just like everything else, is badly broken.. And people wonder why there are cowboy builders and domestic installers who make the odd mistake. The training just isn't there anymore in the quantity needed
Back in 1976 I received my first microprocessor chip (a 6800) and quickly realised the enormous potential of these devices. I imagined a future, before the year 2000, where most jobs would be handled by robotics, cars would be self driving and we would live a life of utopia, able to retire at age 35. Something sure went wrong with that plan. I blame Bill Gates.
Hi, now you can retire at 67+ and freeze when you get your winter fuel payment cut. Don’t worry you can pay it with your triple lock increase next April. (But winter comes before April) but not in the Government world! Take care all and keep working until you drop. M.
It's clear the technical requirements for an electrician are now very high I trained as a BT engineer in the 70s and felt capable of handling house wiring now I do not this is why I watch your channel keep up-to-date
@deang5622 when I went to get enrolled for my Level 3, although I had the pre requisites for the course I did not have the Level 2 Domestic installations. For the Level 2 it was simply english and maths GCSE C or above. Although the Level 2 Course is quite easy the Level 3 throws you into hell, especially if you've not been on the tools and if you dont have the level 2 you might aswell wave goodbye. Level 3 goes in depth into BS7671, Building Regs, Logic DEI, periodic inspection, initial verification and other modules, all of which have open book exams, however a good 30% of the questions are not in the books they are there to test your knowledge (rightly so) and the exams are divided into sections, so if you get less than 60% on any section you fail the overall exam. If you knuckle down and you spend 2 years in full time education it's do-able but at 18 years old you don't have a mortgage or rent to pay for so you haven't got something to drive you. Hence they drop out, because being an electrician isn't just connecting Brown wires to Live terminals.
@@deang5622if you don't have the pre requisite grades still apply for the course. I left school with no GCSEs 20 years ago and still got into college, been a happy spark since
"Pay expectations way too high" according to overdemanding underpaying employers. My heart bleeds. Perhaps not entirely unrelated to the (claimed) dearth of capable applicants? Oh, but... but... profits!!
i always wonder IF you are "working from home " why is your property not held to the same standard as an office ? five yearly , water quality , lighting , air quality etc ? see how they like that when they have paid out a few grand a year
@@ef7480 and if you work from "home" you need to ensure your home complies with the health and safety at work act and you should pay business tax and business utilities rates as your operating a business from your home YOU become the person who is responsible for your health any illness claimed for can be denied by your company
All I can say is that the council by don’t keep up with their EICR’s. Plus apprentices are too expensive and for domestic only firms, people simply won’t pay to cover two people’s wages.
Having worked for the MOD as a mechanical engineer, the problem is this, the contracts to large companies for national maintenance don't include apprenticeship employment. On all contracts including a contract for every base in the southern UK from Cornwall to Yorkshire the company awarded the contract was going full out on how great employing 4 air con and 2 electrical apprenticeships, on a contract employing over 5000 "on the tools" jobs. Indeed this particular company got rid 2 electrical apprentices on the site I was working on within weeks of taking over by just making them really miserable.
Onething I have been aware of is the removal of the fire protection parts in the plastic used on many items as it saves over 30% of the manufacturing cost in plastic connection housings firealarms and so on.
One note on outdoor devices is that it's often a very tight space for connecting the wires in those appliances that it's hard to do it properly, all just because the manufacturer of that device want to make it look sleek and slim, so there's no wonder that some installers aren't able to do it as good as it could be. An outdoor lamp that's going to be mounted on a wall while on a stepladder has to be easy to connect properly.
Agreed, but there are things you can do to make those type of installations easier. If you`re supplying the fittings, choose those which you know are user friendly to install. If things are supplied by the client, get a look at it first, then you can alter your method of installation to suit where possible.
Hastings is full of town houses that were badly converted in the 90s to 4-6 bedsits.. its barely possible to do anything down there as LLs won't pay for a proper/complete job.. also crime is high.. so many many many inner front door replacements and its rough getting tools form van to site without some going missing, its the end of the line out of the big town, sadly the fine will be passed straight on to tenants with cheaper repairs and higher rent
Someone I know had an EICR. Some of the numbers looks a little continently similar, but I am no sparky so didn’t make too much noise to my friend. They then did a board change and had a combination of an RCD and RCBOs split across economy 7. Every time the Emerson was switched on the rcd tripped. The electrician claimed it was the emersion element but in the end was forced to come out and found his sub contractor had linked the neutrals. He initially provided a certificate on a EICR form and then issued a certificate with a number of limitations on measurement so the new install doesn’t have a complete certificate. Then the shower isolator blew as the wires were not the required diameter so they melted so the EICR was worthless and the install cert was just as worthless. Seen another install where the cable for the shower isn’t in a safe zone and has no indication of a cable (ie no socket/isolator/fuse spur etc) and is going to be plastered over. Why arnt these installers held to account? You pay £££, you get ripped off. Pro trade associations should crack down on poor quality workmanship.
That shower wire melting would've been him being too lazy to check csa adequacy because that requires a bit of thought 😂 Imagine how many faulty EICRs have been handed out
The name "carburetor" is derived from the verb carburet, which means "to combine with carbon",[6] or, in particular, "to enrich a gas by combining it with carbon or hydrocarbons".[7] Thus a carburetor mixes intake air with hydrocarbon-based fuel, such as petrol or AutoGas (LPG).[8] The name is spelled "carburetor" in American English and "carburettor" in British English.[1][2][3] Colloquial abbreviations include carb in the UK and North America or Carby in Australia.[9]
Suppliers that can't show they've done proper best efforts on chain of custody and certification should just be held liable for damage caused. They just shouldn't be allowed to hide behind "Marketplace" T&Cs. Don't ban the company, just make them civilly liable every time something happens, and get the insurance companies to sue them to return their payouts. An individual doesn't have the resources to go after these companies, but insurers do. If they don't have UK assets, well, they've got a stream of goods coming into the country: seize them up to the amount of the fine. I am so fed up of all these (expletive deleted) sites making it so hard to find stuff that isn't counterfeit.
I passed my city and guilds and higher national on electrical contracting and instalation work in 1969 i keep up to date reading and on line , i am now 75 and have run my own company since i was 22 i cant do tests but still working i get people in never had a fail yet , i have had people wanting jobs who have more bits of paper and qualifications from somewhere than i have ever seen , but CANT DO A SIMPLE JOB ?????? Wtf
We have a new apprentice at work. 2 weeks ago it came to light that he asked us how many weeks in a year and how many mins in an hour. Still what do u expect for £19,000 a year.
I’m an electrical engineering student and i expect my occupation in designing electronic circuits and power grids to be taken over by AI within three decades. Electricians would have the last laugh due to their job nature and they’d be building installations to designs produced by computer. I already plan to ultimately become a district judge eventually from studying law directly after my masters because with all due respect it’s coming for us. Well, not tradespeople.
How about a electric safety certificate being issued 3 months after a letter of complaint to the landlord & local authority about faulty light switches & 24hrs later a carer sent by the local authority was electricuted & nothing was done also the health & safety executive also refused to do anything & the fraudulent electric safety certificate is still in place 3 years on
Our whole industry needs a shake up, the standard of labour has been in decline for years, the mater craftsman in our trade are disappearing, along with how our trade is regarded. For some reason, painters, plasters and chippys seem to be earing far more money without the constant need to update the ever changing regulations the need to join associations to be able to practice your craft to the full extent all after a much more riggerous and technical training required than said previous trades, plus electricity is dangerous no body gets hurt from a bad paint job. Give our trade the respect it deserves, from the top down and charge and pay appropriately. If I had my time over and knew what I knew know, I'd take a different path, as sad as that is our trade is a joke
There are two big hurdles with EICRs. 1) I believe the majority of EICRs are dished out by estate agents who have absolutely no idea if someone is qualified enough to do them. They should be asking for proof of 2391 at least. At the moment, its very much 'oh you're a sparky you can do that' and 2) Plenty of what I'm sure are adequate electricians (although sometimes not) who think they can do EICRs when they haven't got a clue. There should be more pressure put on estate agents and even your average customer to be asking for some sort of proof of ability. Im sure theres a Duty of care thing hidden in there somewhere.
3) In a market where there is no enforcement of standards, legitimate suppliers will get squeezed out by fraudsters who can offer a cheaper price by not actually doing the work they are paid to do.
Companies don't want to take on apprentices. His applies to all industries. They're are costly during training and, nowadays, be it electrical, plumbing, machining, pretty much any trade, theres much more theory and academic ability as well as paperwork and legislation required than when I started in the electrical business in 1960. Companies are just after making a quick profit. No interest in investing in anything that's more than a couple of years into the future. In any case, we live in a free market economy. That doesn't apply just to businesses and doesn't stop at an employee level. It applies all the way down to the most humble person in the chain. You get what you pay for.
Less Than min wage 6 80/hr. Less than 17 are a huge liability. We dont get paid to train them but we have to pay when we need training. Training an apprentice is time consuming. Cost of insurance to add them. GCSE grading is 1 low up to 9 high. Applicants are 2-6 grade Street bad boys with bad English. Its stress and added costs. You do get paid a one off £1000 incentive which does not cover training tine or cost for first year. Once apprentice is 18 you have to pay min wage.
You reap what you sow I have several friends who like me have different businesses. The guys all say the same thing about the youngsters “wanting” jobs … Paperwork aside they don’t want to apply themselves, five minutes on the job they are supposed to be working however they are on the phone doing TikTok or Facebook. They cannot concentrate or are too lazy to apply themselves. Almost impossible to get reliable workers. From joinery to truck driving they come and in a short time they end up leaving saying that the work is too hard. A product of single mummy families with no dad to guide them…
Being outside the trade, I wonder what's going on with EICRs when a property has been in the same hands for a longer period of time? I know a homeowner who's lived in the same property for about 50 years, and it shows. The entire house is wired to a mid-70s four-circuit Wylex fuse board, and I'd lay a few quid most of the wiring is more compliant with the _tenth_ edition than the eighteenth! 😳 And tbh, I dunno what scares me more; That, or the fact the inevitable -re-wiring- _tear everything out and start afresh_ job is probably going to fall on my shoulders at some later point (With a professional inspecting the work before any commissioning. 👍) P.S: It's nice that we might have the _ability_ for robots to do some of the hard graft in years to come, but _please_ do spare a thought for those of us who - If given the choice between using their own brawn or a robot for hauling a 125kV bundle into place - Would always choose the former over the latter. Why use a machine to do the work when *I* can do it, allowing the machine to be reallocated to a task that's better suited to or less safe for a human to do? 🤖💪😇
Landlords are required to get their installations inspected and maintained in a satisfactory condition, but there is no such requirement for owner-occupiers. 1970s wiring is not necessarily bad, PVC cable can last a very long time and the basic design principles of UK electrical installations haven't really changed much. The problem comes when people who either don't know what they are doing or don't care about a proper job start extending the wiring.
Robots ignore being shouted at & youngsters need safe spaces... What happened to the generation who had to hold the torch whilst being ridiculed when asked/forced to help Dad ??? Oh - we grew up & become moany old gits, just like our Dads
That person shouldn't be doing the work as they are not competent. The best option you have is to hire a competent electrician who can do a full EICR for you.
Every worker deserves a living wage. I doubt the employees wage expectations are too high, in almost every case, the employers desire to pay as little as possible is the problem. If all the money you make goes to food and shelter, what’s the difference between that and a slave ?
When i worked in the trade at one of the contracting companies i was told off for taking to long doing a test they want 4to 5 test a day one guy could do 10 test a day they paid 35 pounds a test gess who was doing a drive by test
I do not agree with using automation or robots, they do have their place for manufacturing, I accept that, but to fulfil the absence of an electrician? It's fine to say it's only used for the tough/repetitive jobs but is that where it's going to stop? I don't think so.
Tricky one this week you trickster Joe ‘Very Demure or very Mindful” also “gumdrops in the garden with Grandad”. Hidden word boom! I will have to go for “Demure” as you struggled to say it, and then “Gumdrops” old boy?
The prices C&G charge for these courses is a joke , 2391 for example you NEED it to do them so they charge what they like. When the people who "train" electricians are more interested in getring rich now wonder quality suffers
The issue with the lack of skilled labour is that no one has been taking on apprentices for years so it's not a surprise.
It would pay the state to train the many young people scratching around needing and looking for a job.
The increased trained staff would ease the shortage and expense of looking for skilled workers.
There's lots happened over the past 30 years or so which has brought us to the current (heehee) state.
Abandonment of proper apprenticeships in favour of cheaper training schemes.
Encouraging everyone into IT sector, making trades look unattractive.
Deskilling the industry by thinking plug and play systems would make things easy, and it turns out its not.
Even using migrant labour, it might work in things like concreting or steel, where its very much the same all over the world. But wiring regs are a different animal in every nation, so we can't fill the gap effectively using overseas workforce.
I've been trying for an adult traineeship last 5 years, tupe to a slightly better company but now realised it was the manager that is the issue, even the young qualified spark I work who's requested his testing to be able to do his job right has been brushed aside, we work in FM and can't get training to do our jobs safely and correct....companies just dont want to invest in any one these days which is sad and frustrating
@@singbob Its difficult for adult trainees. Essentially as an adult you can't work for the same money that an 18 year old trainee with no living expenses can. That's the first difficulty for adult trainees trying to get a break, plus you're probably less malleable and could already have bad habits which take some getting rid of.
In FM there's no real benefit to putting staff through electrical inspection and testing, as there's rarely any install as such to need certification. They'll use sub contractors when new install and certs are required. Working safely can easily be achieved through in house training. The bigger FM companies should have decent in house training courses, along with elearning modules.
because of the ridiculous way apprenticeships are handled by the rules these days, i am a one man band working for another one man band as a subbie,,,, we get 10 calls a week minimum from enthusiastic college students, all the best to them by the way, because someone lazily googled
I'm always suspicious when big companies say 'We can't find enough quality people and they are asking for too much money'. That just shouts that they don't understand Supply and Demand. If you want more quality people because there's not enough, then you literally have to offer more money.
@@randeknight Maybe its your good self that doesn't understand supply and demand.
Money doesn't create quality people, there simply isn't the supply of quality people in the first place.
@@idi0tdetectioninprogress Sure, if those people literally don't exist, eg. physicists capable of creating hyperwarp space travel. But if you tell me you literally can't find ANY americans capable of agricultural work at ANY price, then I'm calling BS.
Totally agree. They are still offering the same wages they were 10 years ago and whining about no one wanting to join the industry.
@CBE-d6j They're two completely different subjects.
Young people don't look to allied trades in anything like the numbers they used to do. When they can dick around with a laptop in a smart office, why would they. That's one reason for skill shortages, there simply isn't the numbers there in the first place.
The second point is kids aren't trained anywhere near standards of the past.
This is twofold.
Training schemes are poor at the college end of learning. Also the way companies operate, with cut throat deadlines and prices, doesn't lend itself to apprentices being given the time and opportunity to develop well. Plus, everything gets subbed out, so trainees don't develop across the whole range of wiring and systems that older people did.
So we are left with qualified sparks, who although many have a high opinion of themselves, are really quite poor in their performance and standards. We could pay a £1000 an hour but it wouldn't make them good tradesmen.
to be fair when i started the class was filled to the brim with eager joeys after about a month it was less then half full
as a former training officer ( the fella that over saw the trainees ) the standards of education from schools was terrible basic math basic physics no longer seem to be taught to the required level let alone the basic skills of using saws screwdrivers and hammers , you need some basic carpentry skills at least but its no longer a subject in schools
there are some kids who WANT to do the job but lack the basic help i am an advocate of trade schools for 15 year olds to go into to learn these skills and be set on the path , but for years governments have ignored these pleas and continued down the road of importing substandard labour and with "media studies" courses
I requalified at age 46 and saw that many of the younger students at college could barely read or write and one even had his ipod plugged into his ears at least 5 hours a day!
Makes you wonder why the firms hire lads like that, almost certainly so they exploit them and use them as cheap labour, I was about 8 years older than the lads at college and saw the same thing too, but plenty of lads there were decent and keen
I’ve just passed my 2391 and it really Opened my eyes to how many of these eicrs I’ve seen in the past are clearly not done properly.
9 in 10 i see are utter nonsense!
yep do high quality work, if someone says you're too expensive, leave a card, you'll be back to fix the f*ckups
@TheChipmunk2008 agree. Its a jungle out there. People still doing EICRs for £90
Its madness. Takes me an hour to tick all the boxes on the schedule 🤣
@@peterigrenyi9176 that's what the pub's for. We literally call it 'the office'. Free wifi, power, plod thru the tick boxes
We had 2 the other day, old listed buildings, about 5 sockets total, took us under an hour (each)... the cert took 1 and a half hours (satisfactory but a boatload of c3's) and every c3 needs a note....
Bosses that don’t take on apprentices, or pay for training, slam standard of applicants
@@beast4517 and complain the suitable candidates want paying accordingly
4:33 Temu is registered in the Cayman Islands, but lists its principal office as being in Dublin - so that's within the EU - which begs the question of whether they could be prosecuted within the EU for breaking safety standards and having misleading advertising.
Shocker, Temu, a Platform known for selling the cheapest of the cheapest landfill products sold fake safety gear. I know money is always tight for everyone but when it comes to personal safety kit you shouldn't buy cheap or you'll pay in a more costly way later on.
I wish they would clamp down on the drive pass EICR.
Yeah, unfortunately these things only tend to happen after some kind of disaster. A big fine for it not being done at all is a start though. 🤔
Iv seen some duff test forms with nonsense tests results.
I’ve heard off the cert from the van but drive by, my goodness
@robertburrows6612 Too many middle men and by the time the wages get down to the people doing it, it’s not worth your time or money unless you behave like the drive by testers that are doing it. It’s dangerous as well.
@@CBE-d6j i had an email today to do eicr's paying £50 a cert.... no way that is profitable or done right for that amount of money
I don't have an NVQ, but I had several electricians in my company for an interview, all of them were with NVQ, but they just couldn't draw a two-way lighting circuit. Some of them had Inspection and testing certs, which they received very recently. I think C&G made all these exams a lot easier.
Nah I disagree
The exams are far more involved and complicated
Let’s not forget the old 2360 cert didn’t even include any inspection and testing
A guy came to do survey to my electrical consumer unit , I paid him 280 pounds .Luckily I had to ope my panel and do some checks also rewire my loft! I found the neutral cable which it was supplying the ring sockets downstairs, kitchen and lights was completely loose , almost hanging in the air !
Our friendly little robot that will record and track everything we do. I wonder by what edition of BS7671 electricians will be required to sleep next to them?
Maybe this is how Skynet starts...
Wonder how long it’s going to be until all the temu off brand ‘wagos’ start breaking down and causing fires. I see too many sparks using them and thinking all will be fine.
The house we used to live in recently( we left sept 2023) had terrible electrics.. the electric oven and hob were wired in with old block connectors and selotape !
No wall mount spur boxes .. I ended up clipping the wire to the wall and installing spur boxes .. it looked hundred times better and was safer for sure!
TBH the whole kitchen had been a kitchen too long but the landlord rented it out just 2 weeks after we’d moved out even though black mould was rife too !
Ah, I was thinking someone got slapped with a heavy fine for issuing a rubbish / false EICR since that seems to be a fair problem over there.
Not this time, but it's bound to happen sooner or later...
Watching over the years lads dropping out of the electrical course at our local college is really sad. Every year you know straightaway the few that will mess around and not last long - but unlike the old days the Teacher can’t just kick them out for disrupting others. Then there are the eager ones who are totally out of their depth but struggle on as long as possible and there are those poor guys who are told at enrolment that there is help for those that aren’t brill at maths - there’s not! For those who just scrape through, they will stay as a ‘Mate’ - if they can get a job in the trade at all. Surely, it would be much better for the kids if they were set a level maths that they MUST achieve BEFORE starting on the course - making it easier for them but it would also definitely help the Tutors (who would be amazed when their students understand their subject from the off)!
World of difference in hammering a landlord, and curing the 50 houses a day drive by testing circus.
Makes me wonder why the Borough council was involved in the first place, that usually only happens if there's an unresolved dispute.
If the landlord's been letting the place through local authority, then more fool them.
As a mature student I have and continue to struggle getting into the industry. For me the biggest problem has been people aren't prepared to give adults a chance (even when offering to work for free). You can't really get on an apprenticeship so college is the only real avenue. I have my 18th edition, level 2 and level 3 electrical installation but none of it seems to help getting my foot in the door. I'm constantly approaching electricians and agencies for opportunities so I can build enough experience to go for me 2391. If I went for the exam I might pass but I'm not prepared to attempt it until I'm confident I know what I'm doing. Passing an exam doesn't prove anything as far as I'm concerned. My safety and that of others is far more important.
Wonder if it’s about time that safety certs should be available online - the ability to look up and download by testing facilities would prevent folk changing names on certs.
Across all trades nobody wants to train anyone. Small businesses are scared of people leaving. Large businesses can pay more to get the staff and have no need to train them. Minimum of 4 years to get anywhere and all the stress and people needing money NOW to get by and don't have the breathing space to work for peanuts. But even in my own apprenticeship you're not trusted to do certain things and get really good at everything else. No wonder people get flustered when they're thrown in at the deep end. Then you learn you can earn more in facilities with career progression available in the structure, or working in a factory without getting stuck in traffic or out late, call ours 3 hours away, etc. The industry, just like everything else, is badly broken.. And people wonder why there are cowboy builders and domestic installers who make the odd mistake. The training just isn't there anymore in the quantity needed
Back in 1976 I received my first microprocessor chip (a 6800) and quickly realised the enormous potential of these devices. I imagined a future, before the year 2000, where most jobs would be handled by robotics, cars would be self driving and we would live a life of utopia, able to retire at age 35. Something sure went wrong with that plan. I blame Bill Gates.
Hi, now you can retire at 67+ and freeze when you get your winter fuel payment cut.
Don’t worry you can pay it with your triple lock increase next April. (But winter comes before April) but not in the Government world!
Take care all and keep working until you drop. M.
It's clear the technical requirements for an electrician are now very high I trained as a BT engineer in the 70s and felt capable of handling house wiring now I do not this is why I watch your channel keep up-to-date
Yeah, things have changed a lot and it's only getting more complex with time. 💪
What are the pre-requisites for doing the C&G courses today?
GCSE grade C or higher in maths and physics?
A' levels in maths or physics?
@@deang5622Grade C in English and Maths
@deang5622 when I went to get enrolled for my Level 3, although I had the pre requisites for the course I did not have the Level 2 Domestic installations. For the Level 2 it was simply english and maths GCSE C or above.
Although the Level 2 Course is quite easy the Level 3 throws you into hell, especially if you've not been on the tools and if you dont have the level 2 you might aswell wave goodbye. Level 3 goes in depth into BS7671, Building Regs, Logic DEI, periodic inspection, initial verification and other modules, all of which have open book exams, however a good 30% of the questions are not in the books they are there to test your knowledge (rightly so) and the exams are divided into sections, so if you get less than 60% on any section you fail the overall exam.
If you knuckle down and you spend 2 years in full time education it's do-able but at 18 years old you don't have a mortgage or rent to pay for so you haven't got something to drive you.
Hence they drop out, because being an electrician isn't just connecting Brown wires to Live terminals.
@@deang5622if you don't have the pre requisite grades still apply for the course. I left school with no GCSEs 20 years ago and still got into college, been a happy spark since
Backpack kislux - also works for Compare - I can't find any difference and still use it for the gym
"Pay expectations way too high" according to overdemanding underpaying employers. My heart bleeds. Perhaps not entirely unrelated to the (claimed) dearth of capable applicants? Oh, but... but... profits!!
Supply and demand principle applies.
If there is a shortage of expertise the wages go up.
Not happened though. Wages are stagnant. Been like that for a decade
i always wonder IF you are "working from home " why is your property not held to the same standard as an office ? five yearly , water quality , lighting , air quality etc ? see how they like that when they have paid out a few grand a year
erm.. because it is your 'home' and the law does not provide for it? Not everyone wants to work in an 'office' or 'building site'
@@ef7480 and if you work from "home" you need to ensure your home complies with the health and safety at work act and you should pay business tax and business utilities rates as your operating a business from your home YOU become the person who is responsible for your health any illness claimed for can be denied by your company
0:57 I was told during my training that an EICR is not a certificate.
Can we try to use the correct terminology on this channel?
All I can say is that the council by don’t keep up with their EICR’s.
Plus apprentices are too expensive and for domestic only firms, people simply won’t pay to cover two people’s wages.
Also loads of shoddy employers out there claiming poverty.
Having worked for the MOD as a mechanical engineer, the problem is this, the contracts to large companies for national maintenance don't include apprenticeship employment. On all contracts including a contract for every base in the southern UK from Cornwall to Yorkshire the company awarded the contract was going full out on how great employing 4 air con and 2 electrical apprenticeships, on a contract employing over 5000 "on the tools" jobs. Indeed this particular company got rid 2 electrical apprentices on the site I was working on within weeks of taking over by just making them really miserable.
WOW ... didn't see that one coming....who would have thought that Temu would be selling substandard PPE.
Demure and ‘gumdrops in the garden with grandad’ is my guess!
3:52 Vacuum cleaning... What the hell is that ?!?!? 😀
😂I do demo that in my own channel ...Electrician does hoovering it's a very very rare sight😮
Onething I have been aware of is the removal of the fire protection parts in the plastic used on many items as it saves over 30% of the manufacturing cost in plastic connection housings firealarms and so on.
I mean great, but if they really gave a toss they'd fix part P. Or get rid of it altogether.
Great update
Is the free course and product available for persons outside the UK?
One note on outdoor devices is that it's often a very tight space for connecting the wires in those appliances that it's hard to do it properly, all just because the manufacturer of that device want to make it look sleek and slim, so there's no wonder that some installers aren't able to do it as good as it could be.
An outdoor lamp that's going to be mounted on a wall while on a stepladder has to be easy to connect properly.
Agreed, but there are things you can do to make those type of installations easier. If you`re supplying the fittings, choose those which you know are user friendly to install. If things are supplied by the client, get a look at it first, then you can alter your method of installation to suit where possible.
Hastings is full of town houses that were badly converted in the 90s to 4-6 bedsits.. its barely possible to do anything down there as LLs won't pay for a proper/complete job.. also crime is high.. so many many many inner front door replacements and its rough getting tools form van to site without some going missing, its the end of the line out of the big town, sadly the fine will be passed straight on to tenants with cheaper repairs and higher rent
When will the council’s be fined for not doing their inspections in time?
Someone I know had an EICR. Some of the numbers looks a little continently similar, but I am no sparky so didn’t make too much noise to my friend.
They then did a board change and had a combination of an RCD and RCBOs split across economy 7. Every time the Emerson was switched on the rcd tripped. The electrician claimed it was the emersion element but in the end was forced to come out and found his sub contractor had linked the neutrals.
He initially provided a certificate on a EICR form and then issued a certificate with a number of limitations on measurement so the new install doesn’t have a complete certificate.
Then the shower isolator blew as the wires were not the required diameter so they melted so the EICR was worthless and the install cert was just as worthless.
Seen another install where the cable for the shower isn’t in a safe zone and has no indication of a cable (ie no socket/isolator/fuse spur etc) and is going to be plastered over.
Why arnt these installers held to account? You pay £££, you get ripped off. Pro trade associations should crack down on poor quality workmanship.
That shower wire melting would've been him being too lazy to check csa adequacy because that requires a bit of thought 😂 Imagine how many faulty EICRs have been handed out
The name "carburetor" is derived from the verb carburet, which means "to combine with carbon",[6] or, in particular, "to enrich a gas by combining it with carbon or hydrocarbons".[7] Thus a carburetor mixes intake air with hydrocarbon-based fuel, such as petrol or AutoGas (LPG).[8]
The name is spelled "carburetor" in American English and "carburettor" in British English.[1][2][3] Colloquial abbreviations include carb in the UK and North America or Carby in Australia.[9]
Suppliers that can't show they've done proper best efforts on chain of custody and certification should just be held liable for damage caused. They just shouldn't be allowed to hide behind "Marketplace" T&Cs.
Don't ban the company, just make them civilly liable every time something happens, and get the insurance companies to sue them to return their payouts. An individual doesn't have the resources to go after these companies, but insurers do.
If they don't have UK assets, well, they've got a stream of goods coming into the country: seize them up to the amount of the fine. I am so fed up of all these (expletive deleted) sites making it so hard to find stuff that isn't counterfeit.
I passed my city and guilds and higher national on electrical contracting and instalation work in 1969 i keep up to date reading and on line , i am now 75 and have run my own company since i was 22 i cant do tests but still working i get people in never had a fail yet , i have had people wanting jobs who have more bits of paper and qualifications from somewhere than i have ever seen , but CANT DO A SIMPLE JOB ?????? Wtf
We have a new apprentice at work. 2 weeks ago it came to light that he asked us how many weeks in a year and how many mins in an hour. Still what do u expect for £19,000 a year.
I’m an electrical engineering student and i expect my occupation in designing electronic circuits and power grids to be taken over by AI within three decades. Electricians would have the last laugh due to their job nature and they’d be building installations to designs produced by computer. I already plan to ultimately become a district judge eventually from studying law directly after my masters because with all due respect it’s coming for us. Well, not tradespeople.
all-inclusive, very demure, very mindful
How to enter for testing equipment? Ive completed my cpd. Tester pen is valuable but that tool would prove vital
How about a electric safety certificate being issued 3 months after a letter of complaint to the landlord & local authority about faulty light switches & 24hrs later a carer sent by the local authority was electricuted & nothing was done also the health & safety executive also refused to do anything & the fraudulent electric safety certificate is still in place 3 years on
Amazing how a social housing company got away with over 200 missing EICR.
I wonder if Southwark council got fined for the thousands of eicrs it hadn't done
Inside job 😉
Unlikely...
Our whole industry needs a shake up, the standard of labour has been in decline for years, the mater craftsman in our trade are disappearing, along with how our trade is regarded. For some reason, painters, plasters and chippys seem to be earing far more money without the constant need to update the ever changing regulations the need to join associations to be able to practice your craft to the full extent all after a much more riggerous and technical training required than said previous trades, plus electricity is dangerous no body gets hurt from a bad paint job. Give our trade the respect it deserves, from the top down and charge and pay appropriately. If I had my time over and knew what I knew know, I'd take a different path, as sad as that is our trade is a joke
There are two big hurdles with EICRs. 1) I believe the majority of EICRs are dished out by estate agents who have absolutely no idea if someone is qualified enough to do them. They should be asking for proof of 2391 at least. At the moment, its very much 'oh you're a sparky you can do that' and 2) Plenty of what I'm sure are adequate electricians (although sometimes not) who think they can do EICRs when they haven't got a clue. There should be more pressure put on estate agents and even your average customer to be asking for some sort of proof of ability. Im sure theres a Duty of care thing hidden in there somewhere.
3) In a market where there is no enforcement of standards, legitimate suppliers will get squeezed out by fraudsters who can offer a cheaper price by not actually doing the work they are paid to do.
Debunked and keep the show on the road
Companies don't want to take on apprentices. His applies to all industries. They're are costly during training and, nowadays, be it electrical, plumbing, machining, pretty much any trade, theres much more theory and academic ability as well as paperwork and legislation required than when I started in the electrical business in 1960.
Companies are just after making a quick profit. No interest in investing in anything that's more than a couple of years into the future.
In any case, we live in a free market economy. That doesn't apply just to businesses and doesn't stop at an employee level. It applies all the way down to the most humble person in the chain. You get what you pay for.
Less Than min wage 6 80/hr. Less than 17 are a huge liability. We dont get paid to train them but we have to pay when we need training.
Training an apprentice is time consuming. Cost of insurance to add them.
GCSE grading is 1 low up to 9 high.
Applicants are 2-6 grade Street bad boys with bad English. Its stress and added costs. You do get paid a one off £1000 incentive which does not cover training tine or cost for first year. Once apprentice is 18 you have to pay min wage.
Anyway the Brands can keep the prices high here in the UK, they will do. Poor Temu.
You reap what you sow
I have several friends who like me have different businesses.
The guys all say the same thing about the youngsters “wanting” jobs …
Paperwork aside they don’t want to apply themselves, five minutes on the job they are supposed to be working however they are on the phone doing TikTok or Facebook.
They cannot concentrate or are too lazy to apply themselves.
Almost impossible to get reliable workers.
From joinery to truck driving they come and in a short time they end up leaving saying that the work is too hard.
A product of single mummy families with no dad to guide them…
London Rubber Company. Excellent safety gear.
Being outside the trade, I wonder what's going on with EICRs when a property has been in the same hands for a longer period of time? I know a homeowner who's lived in the same property for about 50 years, and it shows. The entire house is wired to a mid-70s four-circuit Wylex fuse board, and I'd lay a few quid most of the wiring is more compliant with the _tenth_ edition than the eighteenth! 😳
And tbh, I dunno what scares me more; That, or the fact the inevitable -re-wiring- _tear everything out and start afresh_ job is probably going to fall on my shoulders at some later point (With a professional inspecting the work before any commissioning. 👍)
P.S: It's nice that we might have the _ability_ for robots to do some of the hard graft in years to come, but _please_ do spare a thought for those of us who - If given the choice between using their own brawn or a robot for hauling a 125kV bundle into place - Would always choose the former over the latter. Why use a machine to do the work when *I* can do it, allowing the machine to be reallocated to a task that's better suited to or less safe for a human to do? 🤖💪😇
Landlords are required to get their installations inspected and maintained in a satisfactory condition, but there is no such requirement for owner-occupiers.
1970s wiring is not necessarily bad, PVC cable can last a very long time and the basic design principles of UK electrical installations haven't really changed much. The problem comes when people who either don't know what they are doing or don't care about a proper job start extending the wiring.
Demure & Gumdrops in the garden with Grandad are my wild guesses
Dam Hastings I'm in Eastbourne so I'm surprised it's so close to me honestly I'm not surprised
Great and informative video thank you. You can't say fairer than that
When an EICR costs around £10k from my local sparky, the fine is cheaper.
Why are there so many rip-off electricians out there?
What.........
We had an EICR with certificate before installation of a new consumer unit at a cost of £850 in total.
Robots ignore being shouted at & youngsters need safe spaces...
What happened to the generation who had to hold the torch whilst being ridiculed when asked/forced to help Dad ???
Oh - we grew up & become moany old gits, just like our Dads
Combining elegance and luxury kisluxs
And what can I do about an electrician who changed my consumer unit and refuses to let me have a certificate?
That person shouldn't be doing the work as they are not competent. The best option you have is to hire a competent electrician who can do a full EICR for you.
@peterwickett9088 £768 for a 14 way board for 11 circuits. 😖
@001Neal100 He trades as a Ltd. Co. - which I know counts for nothing.
Complaint to the competent person scheme used by the contractor - NICEIC or Napit
Refuse to pay.
Every worker deserves a living wage. I doubt the employees wage expectations are too high, in almost every case, the employers desire to pay as little as possible is the problem.
If all the money you make goes to food and shelter, what’s the difference between that and a slave ?
When i worked in the trade at one of the contracting companies i was told off for taking to long doing a test they want 4to 5 test a day one guy could do 10 test a day they paid 35 pounds a test gess who was doing a drive by test
I do not agree with using automation or robots, they do have their place for manufacturing, I accept that, but to fulfil the absence of an electrician? It's fine to say it's only used for the tough/repetitive jobs but is that where it's going to stop? I don't think so.
Gumdrops, you can't say fairer than that
Very demure, very mindful & gumdrops in the garden with grandad
Cleaning up after themselves! That's a first for sparks
Most definitely "gumdrops in the garden with grandad"
Gumdrops and "You can't say fairer than that!"
Great guesses as always Mark. 😊
Tricky one this week you trickster Joe ‘Very Demure or very Mindful” also “gumdrops in the garden with Grandad”. Hidden word boom!
I will have to go for “Demure” as you struggled to say it, and then “Gumdrops” old boy?
What electrician ever said Demure. I.e. That consumer Unit is very demure.
A robot one using AI.
It really wanted to say “dam ugly”
Take care M.
Very demure, very mindful.
Pump up the Jam and demure.
The prices C&G charge for these courses is a joke , 2391 for example you NEED it to do them so they charge what they like. When the people who "train" electricians are more interested in getring rich now wonder quality suffers
Demure and Gumdrops in the garden with grandad⚡
One of the phrases this week is Vacuum cleaning
That’s just made up
Certification is essential for safety
GUMDROP AND JAM IS MY GUESS
Gumdrops and demure
Temu PPE isn't legit? Shocker..who would've guessed!
Very demure very mindful
Demure and “man who went to the doctors because he couldn’t say his f’s or th’s”.
Are people confusing 'bots with tools? And computer programs with AI?
Temu, an outlet for cheap and nasty fake rubbish. Whatever happened to BSI and that once famous kite mark?
Demure and ‘gumdrops in the garden with grandad’.
3:56 and what?! Broke into some kind of foreign language there (maybe plumber language?)
"You can't say fairer than that!"
Oh, Gumdrops! Are there supposed to be two words/phrases? ;-)
Wrong I know excellent electricians that they can not pass the test, questions are too tricky and in favor off making more money when retesting!!!!
Robots will not be taking any electricians jobs. Impossible
I have yet to meet an electrician who isn't a robot I swear we all bleed oil
Gumdrops, and 'you can't say fairer than that'.
Gumdrops and very demure, very mindful.
Gumdrops and demure I believe is it.
Gumdrops with grandad and Pump up the jam
demure and "gum drops in the garden with grandad"
Demure and Gumdrops in the garden with grandad.
Temu selling fake tools - Who would have thought?