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Tekken has been with us for almost three decades, and we've seen almost a hundred playable characters come and go. However, during these times, we've noticed that it didn't do its female characters justice. Let's talk about this, does Tekken fail at making female characters, or are the developers doing their best?
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#dashfight #fightinggames #tekken8
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What do you think about Tekken's female characters? Tell us, what are the biggest issues for you, and who are your favorite characters?
Okayish, They do need some work and needs some more relevance in the main story. Maybe a few more non eye candy female characters would be interesting but I guess that wouldn't pay Namco Bandai bills
They should give Reina slick back hair and more muscles. I hate these skinny women in fighting. Look at Street Fighter, they make their women right.
Maybe the developers themselves are afraid of animated women with intense facial expressions?
Facial animations are one issue. Azucena's voice and body language are both so lively and expressive, but her face is just: :| . A bit of added muscle definition to hard hitters would be nice, too. Reina should at least have a Lidia-esque build.
My favorite females are Nina, Jun, and Zafina.
@@RadishHead7 It's just that you are choosing to focus on some SF girls like Chun Li and Cammy for the sake of your forced argument... but SF has a variety of body types, including slim types. Why must that be excluded? It's just one possibility among others, and it actually enriches the roster. And every japanese fg, aiming at that variety of body types, actually has a few little girls. Some more than others. SF just has less variety than other fgs... that's for men too. It's a more limited fg in that aspect.
One thing though: Jin having an average body type is a wild statement
Frame and height yeah but otherwise hell no
it's average in Tekken males maybe...
The creator of this video doesn't realize that the males also have the imaginary "problem" he's referring to.
@@leos8813 get your eyes checked
Yeah Jin does roids no arguin there
Jin is Tekken average, not real world average.
That is what he meant
"she doesn't speak her own language"
-Alisa,Lars,Dragunov,Lei,Xiaoyu and Zafina left the chat
Bruh, Dragunov is mute...
@@theProClaimer selective mute
Lei is from Hong Kong so yes he does speak his own language and Xiayou is technically a Japanese school girl.
Worst then xD@@theProClaimer
What language should a Russian robot built to serve a Japanese guy and be a waifu for a Swedish guy living in Japan speak? Binary? Hexadecimal?
Zafina doesn't have a known nationality.
honestly the biggest problem is alot of the girls just dont emote right. Like the mouth moves but nothing else. Like for example, When Ada or Ashley in RE4 remake talk, their entire face moves, not just the lips and eyes, but thats not the case for most of Tekkens female roster, which isnt a problem in the male roster
I don’t agree at all. It has more to do with the actual design more then having them make creepy smiles 😂
They just need more solid base designs
I agree with this one. The problem with Tekken is the lack of expression on every character especially from females. And like what Max said before, all females almost look the same like you just need to replace their hair and that's it, a new character lol
Precisely because its a kind of method for representing female chars.
This is it roght here. I dont care about the facial features, it's not a problem. The problem is that they are inexpressive.
Open the game and fact check this braindead notion. Fucking hell ya all fucks will look at Asuka and say that she doesn't emote
Paul actually is one of the most detailed characters from the model point of view
it's bcuz he old looking
I really wish Reina had a bit more of a muscular build. It just looks weird to have her doing these Heihachi-esque power moves with the typical female character body frame (especially the headbutt).
Asuka too she could gain a little weight to portray her tomboyish buff girl style
She needs the heihachi haircut too but let's be honest everybody would be playing with one hand if they did that
Cringe. Have you seen real female martial artists who practice karate judo taekwondo etc. They don't exactly look like muscular men do they? They still look like women.
honestly now that you mention yeah, i dont really care much for this reina chick as it is rn, but shed definitely have my attention if she kinda had like the makoto in 3rd strike build and just keep her other characteristics the same
@@dominokillsAnd Xiaoyu is still like 42 kg while being 157 cm, iirc. She should be heavier because she has some muscle, right?
I just wish Tekken's female characters would actually EMOTE. I can handle the porcelain doll looks because they're catering to a specific crowd but at least make them look a little human.
Like crack a big ass smile or something man. Ling Xiayou's win outro is what i'd like to see more of lol
Azucena feels so lifeless because of her frozen face.
@@JunKazamaFan like please smile when your dancing or something man 😭😭
It’s definitely a lot better in 8 but it’s definitely really stiff
From what I've seen that's a kind of general japanese art direction that some products follow. Since TK isn't as much anime visually, compared to other jp fgs, I guess the devs decided to take that approach. They want to represent a certain coldness on purpose and avoid strong expressions.
Other jp fgs also have some inspirations on that artistic approach, but it's not as strongly as TK, exactly because they have deeper anime roots. Also its nuanced and varied in those games, while TK basically applies it on every female.
Like, in SF an older woman like Chun Li or Cammy display a bit of that, while young girls are very expressive. There's that variety. And in KOF, that is even more inclined to anime than SF, the girls are more expressive, following that same varied style overall.
So in the end it's more like TK chose a certain artistic method (that has its true value and its place) and made it the rule in the making of the girls models.
It's very telling when someone on Reddit removed the hair from six female characters, and about the only one most everybody could correctly identify was Eliza, who has distinctive make-up.
To be fair, most men also had same / similar face in Tekken 7. It was one big complaint about it.
In Tekken 8 atleast most characters seem to have unique face.
Tbh I think if you did that to T8 females you would not have as much of an issue
people did recognize them though
you changing up the story to people who dont know what the heck you are talking about is a another story
Actually they could pick them out by makeup
They could tell though, why you lieing bruh
I still think King has the best face in Tekken history
he has a face?
It's kazuya or dragunov
Personally I think Yoshimitsu has the best face
Zafina has slightly darker skin? Bro she’s the same color as Nina 🤣
i have zero idea where he gets this point from.
if anything Zafina looks paler than the other females bcs of her dark hair and dark make up.
really feels like he pulled it out of his ass bcs he wants to affirm that she is arabic.
The issue is the fact that they actually did have variety in the previous games but homogenized the female chars afterwards. In TT2 Nina and Christie had huge shoulders and well defined upper-arms. Julia had bigger tighs than the other girls and characters like Xiao were fairly slim and tiny.
Facially they also had very distinguishable features.
They took all that away in T7 and now in T8. It's actually really sad.
I agree with the TTT2 sentiment completely. Especially with characters like Lili and Michelle, who are both considered the tallest and heaviest females, respectively. But that variety kinda disappeared in T7, that is, until Kunimitsu and Lidia came along. Always felt that they stood out from the other female cast.
It's a loss of nuance in the 3d design/modelling. That maybe - just maybe - could be forgiven in 7 because of the complicated development... But that cant be excused in 8, that went through totally different development conditions.
yea, I agree, thinking back to it they did look more different from eachother.
I'm playing TTT2 right now and it's SO true. Nina's body looks completely different from Anna's when you have them on the same team. Her upper arms are so well-defined.
Jun's face is better in TTT2 than T8
I think the biggest problem with Tekken female characters is that they are too bland and do not stand out. When you look at other fighting games, the most populare ones or remarkable are Juri han from SF and Mileena from MK, because they are completely crazy and they attract your curiosity. That also includes Ivy from Soul Calibur who is basically a dominatrix. Tekken female characters are just a mellow versions of anime tropes like Asuka and Lili, and Nina is just all over the place in terms of character development so she is not really likeable.
A character like Nina, & Anna is more Western inspired in their design, & Julia is a Cute Girl in a Western Point of view.
Ehhh I do not like Mileena much and Juri is solid. I prefer Nina if I’m being perfect honest
isnt it past your bedtime?
Claudio is the blandest character in the game along with Shaheen lol.
@@Lugent25 Yeah idk why that's so true. How do you flop an "Italian Exorcist"?
Shaheen is... Shaheen. Even in SF6 they just made the arab a streamer. Which is the cringiest character type the modern era could conjure up.
They did such a great job with lidia. Unique face and actually and a muscular model, i genuinely thought they’re gonna do better from now on. Its so disappointing
I knew good models won't happen as soon as the very first trailer dropped. Jin and Kaz looked so inhumanly buff. They already barely resembled humans in T7 but somehow they made them even more wide.
@@theProClaimer Yeah, I honestly don't like how over the top male fighters look in T8. It's grotesque at this point.
so u simp over video games charecters what a loser weirdo
True, lidia was such a breath of fresh air. Why they had to go the doll route.
Because Lidia was DLC and placating to Poland fans
I'm not going kidding
They had more free time to get her right without the pressure of crunch time and limited budget.
By the time Lidia was being created they had long been raking in money from the game
There's an extreme lack of different body types and ages for female characters in tekken compared to male characters and I've been increasingly disappointed, where's some evil grandmas.
Ages? Sure
Different body types? Eh...
The majority of the dudes have the same type of body.
Although, I completely agree with that last sentence. I would love to see some evil grandma's up in Tekken.
Take the dudes in t7 and bring them in the Customizing thing, make them shirtless and you can actually See their bodys looking different. Sure everybody is roided out while trying to have a low As fuck bodyfat for some reason, but atleast they are different.
@@meldrickedwards1892 "The majority of the dudes have the same type of body. " No way, their musculature, girth, weight and height all differ much more than the female characters. They have a lot more variation
@@imcallingjapan2178yknow what confused the hell outta me? When it comes to how the dudes look, pewople bashed on Steve.
Like what the hell? You guys wanted different faces on characters and then all of a sudden you get mad when Steve was shown?
@@i3ssb00st5 why did they bash Steve, does he look old now?
After seeing how lively Street Fighter girls are, Tekken girls feels very bland.
Lol not anymore lmao, SF6 is generic bland garbage, they completely destroyed the characters and their personalities have been changed for no reason.
what i don`t like in SF some girls are too thick expecially lower body
@@Daniel-Rain-YT Bad troll
@@mitsugoimatsu7913 Wake up drone
Yeah, they feel like they have a lot more character to them, SF6 was a great way to evolve them
I honestly hadn't registered the lack of expressiveness, but yeah they're completely right. And yeah, be nice if they advanced the time and started to give some characters a little bit of aging. Jun I think suits the agelessness, and depending how she's explained in the story, maybe it fits. The game time seems in stasis since what... 2-3 years have passed since tekken 3?
Also the femme character builds are really too similar, always have been but it becomes more and more apparent. I'd love to see some more muscle definition on Nina, not making her hulking in any way, but she clearly seems like the sort who works to be powerful as well as precise. Anna is much more concerned with appearances and is fine as she is. Lilli, Xiaoyu, certain characters like that are fine. I think most are decent, though could do with just a touch more tailoring in their body shape/definition and facial expressiveness.
Exactly, Nina seems like someone who would keep her body in good form for combat
Lmao I thought it was just me when I referred to Reina as Purple Asuka 😂
If any character in tekken defies aging it's Law (and no I'm not talking about forest whose only mainline entry is 3) . In tekken 4 and 5 Law looked like his actual age but they kept making him look younger in 6 to 7 and even more so in 8 with his baby face.
"baby face"? He looks ancient in T8
Imagine thinking Law looks like a babyface. bro did you not see Lee?
Law only looked his age in TK4 and 5 because of that mustache. When you customized him to be clean-shaven, he looked exactly like Forrest.
@@pappico Law in 7 was some good baby-face, Lee is just pure anime
@@TonyMishima92him and Forest were in TTT2 and looked different
Yes, definitely. As a veteran fan, I used to scoff at Dead or Alive’s female characters for being mere dolls with no personality whatsoever, because female characters in Tekken each have their own unique traits and background story. But then of course there was always that problem of them not wanting the female characters to age, and the past couple of installments they’ve become no better than Dead or Alive: swap-palette anime dolls that lack emoting features shown by their male counterparts.
TRUE
While I do agree with most of your points, I do feel like you’ve completely misunderstood that everything about Lucky Chloe is a deliberate choice. She’s a troll character, she’s designed to frustrate opponents into making mistakes, hitting you with the same rhythmic looped low kick annimations over and over. You even said it yourself: “even her gameplay is annoying”. The comparisons to Eddy are a part of that: their contrast in the story shows clearly that her fighting style isn’t capoeira, but literally just random pop idol dance steps. It’s insulting to fight her because of course she wants to insult you, she’s Psychological Warfare: the character.
You could argue that her gimmick didn’t work if that design intent doesn’t come across, but people who play her certainly understand that design intent. When anyone complains about Lucky Chloe and everything she does as just being annoying, comparing her to all the other serious characters and whatnot, all I’m hearing is that her fighting style worked wonders on you.
Paul is actually one of the good ones. Literally the best smile in the game.
he's in top condition
Paul looked the best in Tekken 5
I’ll say this, I rather have porcelain dolls over whatever US developers think a woman looks like any day.
Based, 100% Based BRAVO !!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
And 🖕🏻western games.
I think having different female builds goes way beyond personality and character believability - it greatly affects how the moves look and adds character to the fighting style.
Chun-Li without thicc tighs. 💀
Really weird that TTT2 did a much better job of distinct faces and that was like a decade ago
its not.
TTT2 was made on their own engine which they had been using since forever. T7 and T8 are made on Unreal instead
I just want to ask Namco what exactly they did to make that first trailer so graphically beautiful because its odd that they were able to produce such results but seemingly just forgot how to replicate it afterwards?
That one scene in the reveal is part of the Story Mode, that's why. They already confirmed that the story mode will look graphically better than the main gameplay modes.
@@The_Algaegraphics don't change between modes lol. The lighting system in the trailer is fully different, anti-aliasing and render quality as well.
@@sharontubul2396That's how the cutscenes will look like in the game
@@fezzy5591 time will tell
Tekken is primarily a console game so in the end it will always be held back by console specs
Some of them are a bit boring, but still waaaaay better than the MK1 girls.
Oh yeah? Name one female character from Tekken who is as dynamic all around as any of the male characters?
My man doesn't know about the unexplained Asian genetic phenomenon of not aging until they've menopaused.
I know right? 😂
So Asian genetic phenomenon only touch women ? It is totaly normal for jun to look younger than his son. Around the age of 25 the first signs of aging start to become apparent on the surface of the skin, for that reason Nina is asian
@@jfray9585😂😂
After Lidia, I really thought that tekken will start getting more interesting female characters. But we got Azucena and Reina instead. Why, Harada, why?
So MK much better at female character faces?
What's wrong with Reina💜? She's an edgy emo girl that can kick butt and you don't want to mess with
@@wonderman7166 What implies that she's emo?
@@wonderman7166too anime
Harada - DONT ASK ME FOR SHIT
I've been saying this since forever, the female characters all look blend. Moles, birthmarks, scars, face tattoos, different kinds of makeup, there's like a million ways to make their faces more unique
@8:30 That is dead wrong, chloe literally counts the beat 1,2,3,4 so you can time the button inputs. Also her animation of when her leg switches side is a visual cue for inputs.
Japanese fighting game.... Japanese women in animation are always "smooth", without wrinkles, without expression marks, young and perfect, without scars or any skin blemishes. It is the chosen art.
True
And it is so boring
I absolutely agree with you, for a long the only females I played were Lidia and Kazumi because of this. lately I am playing more just cause I want to try to learn all characters.
So MK much better at female character faces?
@@Kickinthescience That's not what he's saying. All the females in MK1 look so "unique" that they end up looking ugly.
@@badconnection4383 Sindel is ugly to you?
@@badconnection4383even MK has its own facial issues
Man, you guys should just enjoy the games instead. Why pay $70 if yoi're gonna be bothered by how the females look?
@@i3ssb00st5 I was pointing out the facial issues. It's harder to enjoy games with the rising costs of them, if I am paying $70 for games, than I should be picky about its content. You don't get a filet mignon for $15 just as you don't get a triple a fighting game for 30 anymore.
I also wish they had more agency; I also wish we had more edgy female characters. The only ones I can recall are Unknown, The Williams Sisters, and Master Raven, and maybe Kunimitsu. I mean, we have a multitude of edgy dudes throughout the series, but I've only listed four edgy female characters.
Reina seems to be following the trend
@@gv82089 Kinda but it sorta feels like they cloned Heihachi's personality onto her and she's also not edgy from a visual standpoint. I wanna see some scars.
She literally is possessed by him. Also keep in mind she replaces him in the roster, so to keep Heihatchi players happy she has to be a bit like him
@@sblbb929 Heihachi's main appeal is that he's an insanely powerful old man with funny pointy hair. This replacement ain't gonna cut it.
@@TheSimplyJJP If anything she looks like that Samsung girl people were obsessed with last year.
i think it's like that because they're marketing it for the weebs and their waifu obsession/fantasy
and we stay loving them coz they're sexy
@@tebogotwala5185 your comment really shows what's going on inside the minds of weebs.
Adding a bit of face detail wouldn't ruin them,
@@CrystalMang0 exactly. It's not like it would ruin their feminine appeal it would only add a bit of realism to them.
@@ericdcrs call me whatever you want. im the happiest man alive and i love the way Tekken women look lol.
tekken fails at making any character, street fighter has the best character designs visual and combat wise
That thumbnail is devastating. They gave the new character, who's supposed to be the sister of 53 year old Kazuya, the exact face of another teenage school girl, who also shares the same face with most of the female cast.
At least they could give her different haircut.
Kazuya's only 50, but still
That said, it looks like Reina was born after even Lars (who is apparently 29 or something) as she is pretty much a high school student or something
Heihachi, wtf
Check you eyes. They look different to me. But then again i'm not racist and can tell asians apart.
You'll get better at it over time, don't worry
@@sblbb929 Sure, that's why Lili even has the same model for her face. All they've done is change the skin and makeup, something I can actually see
@@sblbb929 Cope, Reina is nothing but Asuka who dyed her hair purple gtfo with your BS
"From Slim Lee Chaolan and Lei Wulong"
...What?
I just wish Tekken start having *'Face Models'* in future games, so every single character would have a unique facial structure (especially the Tekken Girls)
naah i dont want Kazuya face to have face model, he looks cool, Jin and Feng too! it's like saying Akuma need a real life face model! that'll sucks and people are going to boycott this
The men's faces are unique enough. It's the women's that need more flavour.
Don't need one, they can improve the faces without that
No way, keep the fantasy games fictional
there is only one reason....Namco is only recycling things and don't have enough resources to improve..just a quick example is on Azucena's win pose vs Deejay's. Deejay shows how he signs the camera while with Azucena, the part where she signs the camera is skipped. That victory scene shows how much Capcom puts effort on the game unlike Namco.
@MarcelGomez-pi2lm try to watch it again and compare it to Deejay..while she's writing her signature there is a part where the camera goes to her face then after that she finishes her signature while on Deejay, the whole scene shows how he writes his signature in the camera..that's the difference that I'm talking about. Namco can't animate the whole writing scene
yea dude. 12 moves and some whacky cutscenes compared to 120 moves, multiple cutscenes, cg character endings, multiple costumes and main story integration.
Capcom is indeed showing them how its done !
what a clown you are.
Just take a look at Jun's face from TAG2 and now here in T8, they're almost like two different characters. In TAG2 she actually looked like she had character and personality.
I just made a similar comment. I was so letdown by her face. It really does make her like a different character all together.
Her face looks like a doll in T8
She looks so bad in Tekken 8 after comparing to the TTT2 versionーshe was perfect there down to the voice acting. Now what tf even is she wearing?! That's a mother of a 20-something year old grown man wearing large-sized children's clothes. 🤡
@@LoneTaurus82 she looks like female Jin
i think she looks better in 8
No, they don't. I also think people are making too much of a big deal about this.
Also, Reina is amazing.
(I also feel like the hate for Lucky Chloe is overblown, and pretty superficial.)
I feel like Lucky Chloe was a troll character that was meant to be hated. If Hadara's goal was to piss people off over something so trivial like some goofy blonde girl, I give him props for succeeding.
I 100% agree with everything you said, it shocks me how they obviously blown a lot of money in the new models but this problem still persists
So MK much better at female character faces?
@@KickinthescienceThey have their own respective issues. I don't think it's faur to compare them.
@@The_Algae I’m just talking about the female characters showing more emotion in MK and having more diverse faces
@@Kickinthescienceyes they are better when it comes to facial expressions however the characters look a lot alike and share the same slim body. For this generation, both are bad. It’s a downgrade after T6 because Nina had abs, Anna was curvy, Christie & Julia had thick thighs…. etc. Every model was built differently from the start.
And btw even most male characters share the same body in Tag2, 7 & 8.
@@since2133 slim body but the costumes are way different for the MK female characters
Mostly agree, but one thing I really disagree with here is the complaints about Chloe's rhythm game mechanic -- I think that's *brilliant* and fun. From a game design perspective, her little rhythm games are a super nice touch.
No.
This female sameface design problem started in TTT2 and got worse in Tekken 7
Nina, Julia, Xiaoyu had very distinct faces in Telken 3.
Julia's got more genric over time as did Nina's though.
It got so bad that in Tekken Tag Tournament 2 i couldn't tell the difference between Julia and Michelle at first.
I feel like it’s that their eyebrows barely move or the muscles in the face near the eyebrows don’t squint to show some form of determination like for asuka it would be perfect same with Reina, but I also feel that Reina specifically should have a bit of a muscular build
Seems that they're lacking normal maps for females. It's what gives those details like wrinkles when making different expressions. It goes a long way.
Someone on Facebook actually rendered Jun Kazama to look like how she should look age wise using her intro pose and she looked a thousand times better
@@budgiecat9039link?
so far the female characters in t8 has been generic in terms of its realistic facial movements, but i think reina is a little bit better and so far all males have a lot more realistic facial movement
MK was ahead of everybody when it came to facial movement. Especially for female characters
Y’all will hear a meme and just keep repeating it lol
all the asian females and azu look the same
@@Xenozillexfreaking racist amirite
@Xenozillex
They scanned faces of real women for the models, so that's just you being racist. As someone from asia asuka looks very different to reina to me
While I agree with your point about the generic looking faces and Haradas seemingly deep fear of having older women in his games-- I don't think there's anything wrong with Lucky Chloe conceptually. In fact, I think more characters should be rhythm and melodic based. As Martial arts is a practice that requires a lot of focus on rhythm and timing.
Bruce Lee integrated footwork practices of tap dancing in the conceptualization of his Martial Arts school of thought Jeet Kune Do.
I think the Tekken team should explore and experiment more with rhythm characters
Azucena kinda fits that role now
No. The answer is no. Saved myself 11:33
I never really thought of the female characters looking so similar until this game, because people have brought more attention to it. I don't necessarily think it's a problem but hopefully Namco-Bandai will do something about it.
Well, theres nothing to do anymore now. Maybe in the next game.
@@carlosaugusto9821 Yeah, pretty much.
Considering how cancerous every fighting game community is especially Tekken fans, I wouldn't even blame Namco for not listening.
It is a problem, and frankly it’s kind of misogynistic. Having such strict standards for the female characters to the point that they can’t even emote properly, let alone be older than 26 or have any kind of body fat or muscle tone (I’m not even saying make them fat, I’m saying literally any body type that isn’t skinny and generically attractive). There are male characters in tekken who are old or fat or extremely large and tall or smaller, there’s literally never been one female character in the entire series that isn’t around 20, isn’t very skinny, and doesn’t have a doll face.
@@KT-lj3hl I see your point. I always thought the Tekken women were cool so I didn't take into consideration that they all have similar body types. Maybe Harada and his team will see the criticism (I'm sure they're looking) and make more diverse looking female characters in the future. I also do think they ladies could emote more and I also didn't notice the facial similarities until this game. I thought all the women looked distinct in the prior games. The gamer comes out in nearly less than a month so I doubt they'll make big changes now though. All we can hope for is that they'll improve in the future.
Been playing Tekken since Tekken 3 and at this point the characters all look and move like the same character just in a different skin. Not sure if its just the design style of the game because GG and SF doesn't have this problem.
People are jealous of pretty women so they dont like tekken
They could look better but the main problem with this discourse is that most of the critics have shit taste and shouldn't be listened to.
Personally, I never just noticed the issue of their faces being so similar. I think they all look great. I just want to get into the action itself and see how the character plays.
The way the girls look, like in the video, can definitely be better. Reina, as much as I already love her, could definitely benefit in a more subtle change. But generally, I still have no complaints. Bandai have improved but could do better.
It’s just a game. Keep the beauty untouched.
Wax figures aren't beautiful, they're creepy. Even if you are one of those weirdos who think every woman in a game needs to beautiful, surely you don't go to the wax museum to pleasure yourself, right?
Also, do you have a thing for face paralysis, MrBabyfleet? Do you think it makes women less beautiful when they are able to move the muscles in their faces?
@@spman2099 it’s just a game. The visuals are fine. I don’t need to see skin cracks and wrinkles and shit. Do want that in anime? I doubt it so what’s your point?
@@spman2099My guy. Why do you want fictional stylized games to conform to real world conventions?
I think my issue stems from a lot of the female Tekken characters just being bland and uninteresting. Whether it's the lack of emotion in their personality, or the gentle actions in their moves, or their quirk being their sole identity. Reina and Lidia are the only female Tekken characters that have interested me.
True, but in otherhand you never hear anyone complaining about Tekken females either.
They are in safe middle spot.
@@MrHeiska01well yeah cuz everyone couldn't care less about them to complain
@@Ariston-pr9ljbecause they rather play the game instead of whining abt every little issue the game has
Cant ask for perfection otherrwise, youre a fool
Her fighting style is based on a very nimble martial art irl. So that makes sense
Missed an opportunity to add Master Raven to your list along with Zafina and Lidia. Also, Zafina's skin is no darker than the majority of the the other asian female characters.
You know what I never understood?
Why did they decide to make Julia Chang Chinese American despite her being an orphan on a Native American reservation adopted by Michelle Chang?
Michelle was adopted yes. But what are the odds? Are there just a bunch of abandoned Chinese kids running around in Native American plantation 😂
What makes it worse is on Tekken 3, it did look like they tried to make Julia look Native American. Her facial design and skin tone were darker than Michelle's as seen in their ending cutscene and her profile. Giving the impression she was a Native American girl that Michelle adopted and she took her last name as such.
But then in later games they just made her Asian.
Then they made her Anime Asian 😂
And then I heard Harada even try to communicate with Native American Tekken fans online asking them how theyd like to see the characters and their culture represented etc
So weird.
I don't know if I have a problem but for me in games with realistic graphics every character looks identical outside of clothing and hair
Take those away and I would be able to tell If it's a female character or male, but not much else
That's why I don't understand the argument "make them more human" cuz I think it's even harder to tell apart characters in Mortal kombat 1 where they look more "human" and also more realistic
In a game like Street Fighter or Overwatch, every character has its own silhouette, making them a lot easier to tell apart. And those characters looks way less human.
I think going less human overall tends to work better.
Well tekken goes for anime look so atleast they could have made them look more diverse.
while I would argue "Anime style" also tends to have a similar problem where so many characters looks the same even across franchises and artists. I am also not sure how much I agree with calling Tekken graphics "anime style". Hairstyles looks Anime for sure but I don't get that vibe from anything else @@paradiseb5950
Mortal Kombat 1 scanned the faces of real-life models for their characters. I don't know what you're talking about, but they don't look the same at all.
that explains why they all look the same.@@TonyMishima92
@@ReOnion You're trolling.
I prefer how the female characters in Tekken look over how boring and/or ugly the female characters in Mortal Kombat look.
What do Westerners have against female characters in videogames?
Zafina, Kazumi, Master Raven, Anna and Nina are all pretty cool. But ngl, the teenage/young adult female characters in Tekken all act like toddlers or like they have brain damage and that sucks
Atleast the female characters in this game dont look like ugly men like in other video games
I don't know man, Reina smirk is everything!
i think the lucky chloe hatred is hilarious, shes cute and she needed a nerf, thats all. she’s part of what makes tekken what it is. a fun and intense brawler and her function is just as important just like the bears, just like mokujin, just like yoshi.
She didn’t need a nerf she was actually pretty bad. I like her though, I think the hate against her is unwarranted
@@KT-lj3hl you’re joking right? she has a combo thats easy to land that does over 100 damage.
@@lorenzyme that doesn’t make her good, she has high damage but she has bad range, bad whiff and block punish, she’s extremely linear and she has the worst hopkick. The high damage is just about all she has going for her lmfao
@@KT-lj3hl thats literally not true…what chloe are u playing
@@lorenzyme tell me what I said that wasn’t true then
Tekken is actually responsible for making the most beautiful woman in fighting game history: Nina Williams.
You're entitled to your wrong opinions. But the most beautiful woman in fighting game herstory is Lili. 😌✨
@@MistarZtv Lili is definitely cute.
@@MistarZtv guys guys, stop arguing. It is actually Marisa
Oh please. We all know the sexiest woman in fighting game history is Black Orchid from Killer Instinct. Iam finally admitting now that I fell in love with her. No female character in fighting games has ever make me feel this way, so that's pretty special
I absolutely agree, I think the thing with Reina that stood out to me (if she is actually a part of the Mishima family) is that unlike Lars and Jin etc who all share the trademark features like a deep angry brow and expression or angular gravity defying hair, she has none of the same features at all.
Its like the designers are afraid to even give her any sort of masculine or aggressive feature, even design-wise like her hair. Its actually really lame and I see the way women are portrayed in a bunch of my favourite games from Japan to the point its just boring and dehumanising.
I reject the idea that Mortal Kombat characters look ugly though, that game was going for a realistic look and used actors for face scans and at the very least had a variety of faces and expressions. Even though Tekken is more exaggerated and stylised it has created a design and presentation style with its male characters that it then fails to follow in its own style, which is why you have a bunch of weird angelic and porcelain looking anime girls fighting guys who look like they're from Fist of the North Star. But something I see in the comments a lot when talking about this (and the video itself) is the hesitancy to call it what it is, which is just a clear case of sexism. People bend over backwards to point to some technicality or design problem (which in some ways is true) without looking at the root cause which is just that the female characters aren't respected as much in how they're designed; which is to be attractive as possible and treated as eye-candy rather than an actual character. That's when you see the trend we are seeing now where every woman in the game is a hollow shell (narratively and physically) and all fit into the same archetype with no substance.
The mishima thing really annoyed me. I had hopes reina would be looking unique.
I wouldnt call their hesitancy sexism. People like you are so hungry to be a victim you label something a phobe or ism. Because everyone is evil in your eyes.
It's really just fanboyism. Thing I like==me therefore if you criticize thing you are insulting me. So if you say reina is boring. Well, I like T8, she is a character in T8, therefore she cannot be boring cause that would mean I am boring.
@@Xenozillex so you cannot criticize because "Art i enjoy==me"
Did you even think a second about the implications of your outlandish theory? Especially since you Fall in your own trap.
T8 cant be sexist, since i like t8 and i cant be sexist. All you did is Form a theory without any legs to stand on, t which says we cannot dislike parts of something we like.
@@newphonewhodis7152 That's how people think. The proof is in the pudding. Why do you think people get so personal and hostile when you criticize the thing you like?
You are just saying I am wrong with no alternative explanation for people's behavior. Basically what you said has zero value.
@@Xenozillex what? I dislike her because its not inspired, the Design ist generic. It doesnt change how i think about myself. What happens in me if i look at dragunov and reina and think "boring" and "badass" at the same time? The Alternative is well known, people have aesthethic values and Personal opinions about things. The idea that i have to identify with a character to dislike them is weird idea. This would also mean, looking at good looking characters would change my mood since i would then identify myself as the good values i see in them. How do you explain if people dislike something they dont have strong Feelings about? And there is no proof. Look how you Argue. My opinion is right, the proof is in the Pudding, i Just won the Argument.
The answer is very obviously yes. Not only do the female characters' faces look consistently less detailed than their male counterparts, they've also been pretty bad at emoting. This has reached a tipping point with Tekken 8 due to the fidelity of it all. The women's faces are starting to give me the same feeling as a the unchanging porcelain doll faces DOA women had for every game up to DOA4.
I also suspect that Bandai-Namco does something very similar to what the DOA dev team does, wherein there's only about 3-5 female faces or bodies and they just heavily reause them. Again. largely unnoticeable before but the more you look the more obvious it becomes. Especially the faces, again.
Asian developers. Calling asian features "unchanging porcelain dolls" is kinda racist. They have flatter less pronounced features/ aesthetics and are used to that even when making non-asian characters. It's just how it is
@@sblbb929 You seriously thought this was a viable defense for the near-featureless, almost static faces the female characters have?
You seem to have forgotten that this also applies to all the female characters in the game, not just the East Asian characters. Furthermore, we haven't seen that problem from other fighting game developers making female characters.
That's why it's so jarring: Their competitors are making female characters with more detail and emotional range and Tekken 8, despite its massive leap in fidelity, is NOT.
@@RicochetForce my wife, sister-in-law, cousin, and friend's wife all gravitate to the same attractive, slender female archetype in both fighting games and ones that offer character creation. The minority are vocal but the majority are what's being appealed to here. Plus it's a fictional game, it's not supposed to be like real life. Kazuya for example looks like an impossible goal but nobody has an outcry to make him a generic fighter build.
That’s just the beauty standard in asian countries. It’s how they see females. Nothing we can do abt it.
That's not even true it's just an anime stereotype.
Street Fighter 6
Power Instinct
Tobal
Breakers Revenge
All prove that wrong
@@budgiecat9039 it's not a anime stereotype but anime is just another victim to the effect, the beauty standards are deep rooted in most asian cultures, there is a reason why games made by companies that are from Japan or China always have 90% of their characters very attractive and "pleasing" to the eyes of audience be it male or female alike. All JRPG's, Japanese / Chinese Gacha Games, and even some western gaming companies all have this issue
@@Zero-zr6xx a list of exceptions:
Oume & Okane of Power Instinct (elderly twins)
Their mom; Osima Goketsuji
Natasha from Korean made Eye of Typhoon fighting game for 3DO
Mary Ivonskaya, Russian wrestler from Tobal No 1 & Tobal 2 for PS1
Genkai from Yu Yu Hakusho fighting games
Amanda from Strip Fighter 2 (PC Engine)
Geezer from Heaven''s Gate (PS1)
Marisa & Maron from SF6
Jane from Fighting Vipers
Angela from Power Instinct
Rila from Breakers
Simply because the most people who play this are men, who like pretty and sexy girls. Having them aged like some of the male characters would at some degree reduce their fanboyism. I agree with making them more like human instead of porcelain doll though.
What about Street Fighter 6? Unless the Tekken audience had a radically different taste, then your argument doesn’t stand.
@@chibu3212tekken community is just a daycare centre full of children whinibg about every little thing they see rather than just enjoy the game for what it is.
I do agree with the porcelain doll thing but look at how they reacted when Steve was shown, hell lotta hypocrites because they liked it when the dudes looks different but Steve is an exception?
@@i3ssb00st5people said the same about law's face, you don't see anyone boycotting the game over it or calling it woke or w/e.
It's not even about making them uglier, if they somehow can't make any other face or body type look good that's a skill issue💀
What? First of all face detail wouldn't ruin anything bro. Also aging? Street fighter ages characters just fine.
Both ryu and chun are nearing their 60s, do they look like that to you? @@CrystalMang0
Variety is nice but people also want to play characters they think are cute and cool
Tekken has some problem with stereotypes in general. There is good character variety, but there is also quite a few very huge holes: No big women, no adult or older looking women are the most obvious. There is also no lanky or intermediate people: there are hyper athletic ones and very fat ones, nothing in between. And while there is some variation in male faces, it is truly small in the case of women. Their shapes and expressions are truly copy pasted. Even their busts... come on, Japan has no shame on putting all types of boobs everywhere, yet in Tekken all of them are sameish. Where are the Baikens and Talims of tekken? Even from a male-gaze POV you are doing it poorly, Bamco.
No adult?
Most women are adult??? Nina, Anna are in their late 30s, Kazumi is like 100, New peruvian woman is a CEO of a coffee company, Jun is literally Jin's mother. Lily, Asuka, Xiao go to college now ...
cause woman standard in japan is different than your standard, westener can't understand east cultures
@@sblbb929 Also those numbers are pointless when they all look like they're in their early 20's. Maybe Nina and Anna look like they're 30 but that's it.
I'm good. No changes needed from my point of view. Feel free to disagree.
I’m scared for the future of gaming when we have people complaining about characters not conforming to real world conventions
OMG some people complain just for the sake of complaining
This is a very valid criticism. Street Fighter 6's female fighters are very lively and I wish Tekken 8 would've gone a similar direction.
Not at all, we had Eliza, Chloe, Josie, Asuka, Lili etc. all of them had personality and charm, the issue is the community, the females has always been more overly criticized compared to male fighters, because the majority of the playerbase are males, so that said I think it's obvious that there is some hidden Misogynist mentality lucking in the thoughts of most Tekken players.
As for similarities, I think people are reaching because of above statement, if we was to remove all gear etc. I can distinguish each female face from the other.
Agreed
x2
Tekken, like DoA, Street Fighter and KoF, emphasizes Soft-core female characters - cause if they had many hardcore female characters like from Mortal Kombat or Killer Instinct then I think that could reduce their own player data base. But hey it’s Fiction so I think it’s fine.
What do you mean by softcore?
Female characters that kill?
And why the hell does mortal Kombat only have one body model for all female characters.
I hope they keep them doll like and pretty. I preferred that 100000000% over those kaju like western female characters
Facts
Human-like does not equal ugly.
There's clearly no balance between the male characters and female characters' faces. Asuka's RA is a clear example of what's wrong with having doll faces.
Based, 100% Based, BRAVO 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👌🏻👍🏻.
AND 🖕🏻WESTERN GAME!!!
dude we in the west dont like these masculinized golems either.
no one of us votes on this. Capcoms grotesque female characters look that way bcs Capcom got investment from ESG bankers.
Hating the west while playing a game that has fighters from across the world is wild tbh
Dizzing Paul like that, imo he is the only one that got some crazy charisma buff
Paul always had charisma
Now h just looks like GameStop transgender it's MA'AM SIR Karen with that haircut 😂
I really wished Xiaoyu has her pigtails gone to show her maturity and growth. Same with Julia.
100% agree.and not only in tekken,many games have this "perfect wax doll faces".i know they target mostly the teen-young adult audience,but cmon..and while t8 looks way better than t7,the downgrade from the first trailer is soo obvious.
I completely agree. I think it's a disservice to the the female characters that 99% of them don't even look like fighters.
On what planet is Jins appearance “average”?
Only in a fictional fantasy game like Tekken
He would be classed average by fighting tournament standards
@@mooshinu no i'm pretty sure he'd be considered heavy weight.
@@fwwaller No he's literally average compared to Marduk, King & Fahkumram
everyone looks reaally damn good in the roster. I'm especially surprised with Law and Lili cause they look fucking fantastic. But MAN OH MAN I wish I could see the models convey more expression just like how Law does it.
Sorry, but Lucky Chloe was done right as she should be. If the character is an idol, I don't expect she'll fight with some ancient fighting style, I expect her to be so ridiculous as she is.
The fact that you brought up Mortal Kombat as an example of what it's like to make "ugly" women characters is part of the problem. To paraphrase, I'm not saying YOU specifically said this but I'm talking about the argument in general because for years, people (men) would say that the women in Mortal Kombat look "ugly" when that simply isn't true. The difference between Mortal Kombat's women and the women of Japanese 3D fighting games is that as far as I'm concerned, as far as the newer Mortal Kombat games go, the devs are just trying to make the women look more human and distinct from each other to the highest caliber (more or less). Using the latest MK game at the time of this comment, MK1, the female characters don't look "ugly" to me personally, they are still conventionally pretty designs and they manage to look a lot more varied than the standard pretty face you get in games like Tekken. And that what helps their female characters stand out toe to toe with their male counterparts.
I'm not dogging on the women of Tekken but for the sake of the topic, it makes for good conversation about the state of how they're designing female characters and how they lack that extra oomph factor that they could have. I'm especially glad you brought up the aging thing because it's true, they don't allow the women to age at all and it's a complete sexist double standard since the male characters are allowed to do this and have a design that reflects it (Heihachi, Paul, Lei, Steve, etc). This double standard is what really put me off from Lidia because while I love her traditional karate style, they could've easily made her a woman in her mid to late 30s with a design that reflected that but nope, they had to put her in her late 20s and make her look a 21 year old. And then when we could've got Kunimitsu back in action as a mature fighter in her 40s, nope we get her teenage daughter instead. And don't get me started on "Master Raven" (who didn't even get her own name) It's like we're not allowed to have mature aged women and it's what's hurting the diversity of the female cast.
I didn't really notice the emotion thing but yeah, they should totally work on that as wel. Stop being afraid of your female character emoting and possibly making an "ugly" face. Women are human just like men, let them emote.
At the end of the day, it's nice to see a video talk about this topic and I hope that Tekken gets better when it comes to design female characters. A pretty YOUNG face is a dime a dozen in this game.
"The devs are trying to make the woman look more distinct"
really? they all share the same body model, no muscles, Just like Tekken (without the pretty face).
People even used to think that Sindel and Li-mei were related because they looked way too similar.
@@Zelldic27 When I was talking about distinct, I was talking more about their faces. Like at least with the third revival of the series that started with MK9 leading into MKX and MK11, the female character faces didn't look all that similar. Sure maybe the bodies may have looked too similar with the exception of Sheva (whom is arguably the most diverse looking in comparison) but facially, you can say that they didn't look similar.
At least their backstories aren't randomly retconned like Bridget from Guilty Gear Strive.
Also, keep in mind if the developers of Tekken changed the characters in the way the US wants, the JP community would have a riot over it.
That happened with the Final Fantasy 7 remake. People hated that Tifa didn't look doll like enough.
While ur criticisms are valid, I am not so sure if I want the mortal kombat or even sf treatment on tekken... If you want female facial designs fitting the so called "modern audience" narrative, there is more than enough in current day, some might even say too much. Just maybe not in fighting games.
So they should continue looking like unrealistic Barbie dolls?
Thumbs down simply for the Lucky Chloe and Josie slander. Also "capoeira is a legitimate martial art" made me laugh so hard.
i don't think this is something that needs improvement
I think Tekken’s Female Characters are fine just how they are…. I personally feel like 80 percent of the Female Tekken Fighters are all memorable in some way.
Tekken fails at providing motion capture for facial expressions. All characters in Tekken 8 have literally the same boring npc face.
It's a japanese game. Its different culture. Asuka is pronounced Aska. There's only 4 female characters with an excuse not to age. Nina, anna, jun and kazumi died forever ago. A lot of ppl forget that Asuka and Lili was born in the 80s. That's japanese culture for you. Probably because of shinto. Women are really important in shinto. The head Orge was holding was King I. 😅
U ok? Street Fighter is even more Japanese game than Tekken - and their fem characters R much more diverse and lively.
@hgyuuuuhj098 You have to remember street fighter devs said they were gearing it towards Western audiences . That's the big difference reason why they have characters that are more "diverse"
one note: there hasn't been only a handful of years since tekken 3... 4-7 happens in a singlke year somehow... but with tekken 8 we're finally advancing to the next year...
I thought master raven was designed well, maybe her having ravens move set doesn't make her that interesting to some ppl
Exactly. She has no uniqueness because of that
Zafina is the only female character that looks next gen, everything other character that is women has no aging detail or emote properly.
This topic got me thinking about Naruto and depending on who you ask, how female characters aren't well written in the series. Take Sakura and Hinata for example. Sakura gets a lot of hate because of her love for Sasuke despite of everything he's done and the way they hook up was kind of stupid to some anime fans. Hinata on the other hand was not properly paired up with Naruto. There was no strong interaction or relationship build up after the the Pain ark. But here's the funny thing about Kishimoto. He isn't single and he even has a child if I'm not mistaken. He just doesn't much time to spend with his family because of his work. There's also another character who got little screen time. Here name is TenTen. Originally she was supposed to be paired up with Rock Lee then separate after they had Metal Lee, but someone in higher-ups didn't want that because talking about divorce in Japan is kinda taboo. And when it comes to conservatism in Japan they have a very strong patriarchal value compared to the West. Now to be clear I'm not condemning or praising at all because every country, culture and history has its strengths and flaws. Take a long look at American history for example. I can't really blame you for strongly disagreeing with me because there are plenty of Mangas and Animes with well written female characters. It's just depends on the writers and who they work for. And if you're going to work for certain companies that makes fighting games you have consider fan service as a main priority before you think about character development. So I think when it comes to female characters in Tekken it's.....
A: The writers with time constraints.
B: The higher ups giving less freedom to writers.
C: Generally high demand for fan service with less criticism.
Eyes are different. Nose is different. Lips are different. Hair is different. Clothes are different. Body is different. What is copied here?
Yes but more so, how lifeless they look.
There's more emotion on King's mask than the femme characters most of the time 😂😂
Tbf jun is an Asian woman and they age slowly visually. Even Lee looks like he hasn't aged and he's about 50
Nah. Nina is not Asian. And samy perfect doll faces look more like creepy valley effect and overall bland. If U don't get what i mean - look at Street Fighter girls - big variety of emotional types and expressiveness. They look more human despite cartoon graphics
@@theProClaimer I didn't mention Nina at all, Nina was in cryo sleep that's her excuse. I agree with the expressiveness of the characters, even most of the males struggle with that too
good. as a Lee main the last thing i want is for him to be some geezer or some washed up middle aged dude like Paul.
@@Senumunu they're the same age 😂
The idea of making female charcters beautiful takes away from the general aesthetic or feeling of the game, as the male and female characters do not look like they belong in the same universe. Plus, not adding any blemishes/ making female faces doll-like causes the graphics to look worse. It would be nice to see some detail, and depth to their faces. Personally, I love Tekken, but I feel it lacks an specific atmoshophere, like all the Tekkens after Tekken 4. Adding that would definetly give some charm back to the game.