Also, even though I consider myself a pretty well seasoned mechanic, I learned a long time ago to take good advice from people when it’s given. I have to say that watching your videos and listening to you has taught me a few things that I am truly grateful to know. Thank you for the time you spend making these great videos! They really help people out.
I used to run and build my own comp eliminator engines back in the '80s . We always lined up the woodruff key on the crankshaft with the zero line on the balancer. We used to tape off an area 1/2 wide on the balancer and paint it white, then carefully and accurately scribe a line with a scratch awl across the balancer. This was a race engine that hardly ever saw dirt so it was always easy to see. You can position the timing marks anywhere you need them as long as you verify the TDC for their accuracy. We ran a Hilborn front cover with a injector pump drive and an ATI superdamper. We would set the magneto timing statically with a buzz box so we were always referring back to the timing mark. It HAD to be accurate. Great video!
First a big thanx for taking the time to produce such informative videos. I usually take marking the damper a step further, by holding a carpenters square at the zero degree mark and using the side of the ruler as a guide to scribe a line using a triangular file. Then I can fill the groove with paint. Reason....I have lost the marks over time due to cleaning the engine, solvents, and plain dirt. Not being critical just my experience. Thanx again
I have been watching your videos for a few years now. you are by far the best instructor by far on the web.If I have any questions you are my trusted source,Thank you
I ran into that problem when I built my motor because I didn't use the original timing chain cover, instead used a chrome cover, took a bit of figuring it out. Always enjoy your videos, thanks for your time.
Thank God I came across your video. I was pissed and about to start tearing it back apart thinking I was off a tooth when I know I put it together correctly. Thank you Thank you
Not sure I agree with you, there have been so many different versions of the sbc and most of them were not that great, maybe that was the metallurgy of the day or the fact that the american autoworkers back then relied on the union to keep there jobs not the job quality they performed. A four bolt main block was your bst bet on longevity and GM put out some really nasty engines. I do agree that the LS engines were a leap forward in with there drive trains and were way over due. I have a 95 vette with the second to last year for the SBC being an LT1 . So in my opinion which ever asshole put the Opti-spark on the front of the engine, directly under the water pump should be kicked in the head you choose which one, but that's is only a small example, The Lt1 is a much better engine when compared to the sbc just as the LS engine is superior to the the LT1. to be clear I mean the pre LS LT1's engines, since LT1 is a sales code that has been adopted into it's own model designation over the decades.
Your video mentions " some people " having problems with the timing on their sbc. I must admit that I have been one of the them. I have been so damn frustrated with the work I have done on my 82 c/20 with a stock 350 this last year during this pandemic B.S, With getting a used car/truck anything you never know what your really getting even new cars can be lemons right off the lot, so when you don't have a base line of what is working 100% as it should you can start chasing down possible causes for what is going on. So I bought this truck and it ran barely, and to my amazement passed smog out here in California that is actually something. So I have done alot of work with out having done the big dollar items and for the most part had to replace everything emissions related if parts were available. I ended up replacing the front of the engine ( new cloyes double roller timing chain and gears} along with cover , balancer , w/p, viscous fan, radiator etc. Now fast forward to last month when I have everything back together and start the truck. Set timing, idle speed and air/fuel mixture with a vacuum gauge ( installed a Remanufactured QuadraJet by Rochester } things running great. Take it for smog and it fails and print out says 32 BTDC. WTF !!! So I want to say thank you for this particular video, it is the only one that addresses this issue, I have read about the different diameter balancers between the different years and engine sizes but when ordering the parts there was nothing about the tabs and marks on the balancer etc. After watching your video I went out put engine tdc #1 and sure as shit the mark was off about 1.5 inches on the balancer. So I put a new mark on the balancer and ordered a movable marker for the cover. Not sure when I'm going to pull the front of the engine apart to put it on or just do the math when I retime it because it's still off a few degrees or my timing light is messed up because 6 degrees btdc is still printing out as 12degrees at the emissions testing facility. I am sorry for leaving such a lengthy message. I hope it gets the point across how frustrated I was and how helpful your video has been to me recently. I have shared this info with the few sbc chevy friends I hang out with, and like me they have never heard of this before. A good rule of thumb for anyone who repairs or fixes anything cars or not - Always compare new parts to the old ones and don't assume a part even if it's brand new , that it will work properly or is even the correct part. Thank you again keep up the good work and for sharing your knowledge with the rest of us " some people".
Thank you so much for this. My car has a replacement engine with a lot of unknowns about what parts came from what year and type of engine. I'm new to Chevy engines and had no idea they moved the timing tabs around in this way but I wondered why I could barely see the timing tab way up under the water pump. The car is a 75 corvette with an engine from a 80 Z28. This explains it and perhaps why my timing seems so far out (the primaries on the carb are all sooted up) even though the timing seems to be on when looking at the marks. It's either this or the balancer has slipped. Either way...thanks for this video. Very helpful to me. Subscribed!
This is one example of why people with timing belt engines should go to a dealer or a shop that services one manufacturer of a car. The other reasons include fast turnaround times due to the number of times the staff has replaced your kind of timing belt. Most cities in the USA have a "European cars only" shop, some cities in the northern USA have "Subaru only" shops, and most big cities will have a "Toyota and Lexus only" shop. Some cities may even specialize in one model of car, I am not sure how many cities have a "Nissan Z cars only" shop but there are a few. Those places will have that balancer installation tool for each application, whereas shops that service everything will usually rely on a soft hammer and block of wood. I think the early Mazda Miata and certain variants of Mitsubishi Eclipse would develop problems quickly if that tool wasn't used. Those engines were already troublesome anyway, so I don't know if using the specific balancer installation tool helps anything.
Mazdas with overhead cams when a none Mazda oil filter was used would generate a tick noise from the lifters. Replaced those by the buckets. The Mazda tech reps said they had a patient on the pressure by pass valve in the filter versus the block or adapter like most engines, so aftermarket filters didn't have this valve and only 50-70% of oil was filtered causing the lifter oil holes to clog over time. This was back in mid 90s when I worked at a Mazda dealer. Timing belt and lifters was almost daily.
I just want to say "Thank you" for this video. You saved a trip for the doctors, in their clean whites suits, from coming and taking me away to the "Funny Farm"... 😯😲😮😜
bro im having trouble seting my timing, but thanks to you now I have the answer to my problem???? awsome dude keep up the good work. p.s wish you were here in kansas city i could use your help, thank you sir for your time sir!!!!!
Thanks for the video you're always very meticulous I like that back in the day depending on what keyway positioning you asked for would depend on where your mark was
All due respect, using a dial indicator as shown in this video (at 5:35 into the video), is not the most accurate means of locating True TDC. Reason.... the crankshaft can still roll a bit (in either direction) while the piston only "appears" to be stationary while at theorectical TDC. Using the same principle, we want to stop the crankshaft at an equal distance on either side of theorectical TDC. This can be done using a dial indicator with an "in-the-hole" distance of .250" (for example), or by using a degree wheel and a PPS tool (positive piston stop), and targetting a "stopping point" of 25*/30* on either side of theorectical TDC. (we can also use 20*, 25*, 30* or even 35*, as long as the split is enough for better accuracy) But let's say that we use the dial indicator method: We bring the crankshaft around and stop rotating it when the piston is exactly .250" (or a demension of your choice) from the cylinder block deck, as indicated by the dial indicator.. At that point, we stop rotating the crankshaft. We mark the balancer aligning with the ZERO tab mark. Now we do this same thing in the opposite direction, and once again stop rotating when the piston is .250" from the cylinder block deck, as indicated by the dial indicator.. Once again, we mark the balancer aligning with the ZERO tab mark. Next, we accurately split the difference between these two new marks, make a NEW mark, and then rotate the crankshaft until the NEW "split" mark aligns with the ZERO on the timing tab. Now we have established True #1 TDC. If the OEM markings are off, we need to get rid of them, and/or make the new marks very bright and much more visible. Again, all due respect to the author of this video.
You can just buy the proper timing tab. it is for a late model first gen SBC. It puts the timing tab over center at the 12:00 o'clock position. It's called a 12:00 O'clock timing tab.
sure that is true once you are aware of that being an issue. Before that moment your trying to set the timing, when everything else is correct your mind starts going down every scenario, stretched timing chain, vacuum leaks etc. knowledge is power, doing a repair is not difficult but proper diagnosis is truly a gift and comes with experiance in the field not from a laptop or an app.
just what i was looking for ---my balancer the factory mark is several inches off so when i got to top dead center i made new mark on crank-i put a small plug in # 1 rolled engine over when it pops plug i stop factory mark way off have try to start ,but getting clos -good video
Today is a sad day for me. Instead of installing the engine I am having to tear it apart again as I was rotating the block and priming it with oil I heard a snap and now a few of my push rods are bent on cylinders 3,5 and 6 .The only upside to this is I am glad I did not find out after installing it on my truck. Now its back to square 1 for me. Another hard lesson to be learned today I just hope the damage is not to bad when I find out the aftermath. 5.7 Vortec back to the machine shop that did the head work and provided me with a custom cam a 265 and 480 lift ex. and int. I was told it will work with the stock parts since the cam is not to high.
@@Myvintageiron7512 Talk about bad timing had I seen your video before I would of spent the extra bucks for a cam dagree tool I just went off the mark on the original dampner and looked at went off the #1 piston valves Both being closed and thought it was all gravey boy was I wrong!!
Lots of videos and tv shows show someone beating on the balancer, even with wood or mallet etc. Reason that is bad, you're beating the crank back witch can damage bearings, rear seal and more than likely the main bearing that sets your fore and aft play on your crank.
If a "professional" tv automotive show is showing the viewers that beating on the balancer is an ok common practice, that tv show needs to be taken off the air. I'm tired of seeing shows that wait until the very last second to start the engine without a proper break in, or to even see if there's going to be mechanical issues during startup while it's still on the stand. Once an engine has been dropped in, it's all the more difficult to remove troublesome parts.
Great video my friend. One of the things I was thinking about was the balancer depth difference for the reluctor ring on vortec 350s I use the factory balancer without the reluctor rings and usually just turn a .100” spacer out of a washer or something to take up the slack present when the ring is not installed. You may mention this in one of your videos if you haven’t already. I think I’ve heard you speak of this before though. Love the videos and I’ve been subscribed for at least a year!
That is a good point I always buy a new balancer when I build one so when I do a vortec w/ reluctor wheel I buy the correct balancer if reusing it I just leave the reluctor wheel in there
Thank you, just what was I was looking to find out! I have two sbc's next to eachother, one with a new balancer and struggling to get the timing figured out. Checked the other engine and notice it had the tab at 12. This one has a tab 1. Likely the mark on the balancer is setup for 12... Time to find tdc and check!
I wasn't very surprised. I remember doing oil changes back in 2010 and 2011, and the repair shops either didn't stock oil filters for the Chevy 350, or had very few in stock. The older trucks became very uncommon, so most trucks had a LS engine or a variant of the 4.3 V6. Bother the LS engine and 4.3 V6 used different filters from the SBC 350. At the same time, the equivalent of the Motorcraft FL1A was not always stocked at the repair shop because there were so few cars and trucks that still used them. Fortunately for us, both types of filter were just a phone call away from the major parts stores.
Bab Bab NAPA can’t even get many internal engine parts for a 350 anymore. It’s been almost 20 yrs since the last 5.7 was made. That’s a long time nowadays in the car business. Add to that the fact that LS engines are so dominant to Chevy guys now that it makes little business sense to fill shelves with 350 stuff anymore. Parts will be available online for 350s for decades to come so it’s no big deal.
My only advice in your video which is great a reminder is the size of the Harmonic balancer as well as the vehicle it will go into. The reason i say that is Amazon and eBay sellers for example state that an 8 inch balancer will fit my 350 1976 Corvette and at a Google forum Internet search discussion some state that a bigger balancer when upgrading the power grid will reduce the vibration better. Now the OEM 1976 C3 Corvette balancer is just 6.75 inches, but sellers and Amazon state that an 8 inch will fit. and it will on the shaft. So why the differences in the size of the balancer? I contacted Professional Products who sells both an 8 inch and a 6.75 inch at Amazon for a 1976 Corvette and gave them all the upgrades I am doing to the Corvette and his return email recommended or advised I stay with the 6.75 inch as the 8 inch may hit the cross member or other items in the area. So my assessment is that the 8 inch is really for a strip driving and not for a street driving with additional items like power steering, A/C frame member. So I returned the 8 inch and purchased a 6.76 inch OEM upgraded quality Harmonic Balancer instead. 😉
Check your clearance most balancers I bought have over 2 thousand press I hone mine out so I have 1.2 to 1 thousand,,,,, now that is if your crank and balancer are new but I think you should always check it!
Thanks for answering me. I was entertaining the idea of building a promod. I watched your Ford vs Chevy video. I'm a die HARD ford guy. That being said I have two Mustangs right now. I know that Fords cost per HP is higher then Chevy. I would love to hear you opinion of this topic. where is Mopar in the after market now. I went into Heavy equipment repair and haven't raced in 30 years. I also may need to throw some work your way. I wasn't trolling you. My 17 hasn't had it's oil changed yet so I can't do to many mods yet. It has 3750 this evening but I have had it at the track twice. Staging at a tree felt really good. The base V6 Mustang will have to go. The cost of a S550 5.0 swap wouldn't be worth it.
I think I have this problem on a 4.3 V-6. The mark on the balancer is off by a simular anount. Unfortunately the engine is completely installed. Any suggestions on finding TDC on a assembled engine. Ok ther than a pencle in the spark plug hole?
Love your videos. I bought a L31 Crate engine from Jegs. Would the timing mark be correct on a new crate engine or should I check it? It has the stock plastic timing cover and balancer that came with the engine from GM. Thanks
Nearly had a problem with a new goodwrench 350 by using an Oreillys OEM balancer, and using the 2 Oclock tab that came with the motor...I had her perfectly marked at TDC on the timing tab. A good mechanic helped me start it up by messing with the carb throttle, when I turned it over it backfired thru the carb...he then quickly removed the plugs on the cap and advanced them one spot counterclockwise, and she ran fine for break-in. I never figured this out until 4 years later....that Oreillys sold me a 12 oclock balancer for my 82 chevy, as this was OEM for GM trucks from 76-86ish. If I had bought it from Jegs or Summit, it would have 2 oclock. If it wasnt for that mechanic, I would have likely trashed that cam/motor on startup.
Auto zone sells an 8" balancer for SBC and it only has the 12 o clock mark they list it for all yaers of 350 it cuases untold fits for many of their customers who buy their balancer it's not a bad product they are made by Dorman fine for stock replacement but you need to remark them I always check my TDC with a bridge gage after my short block assembly but that is not so easy when changing a balancer with the engine in the car/truck I would say anytime your replacing a SBC balancer compare the new and old balancers very closely
I am currently researching to build 383 stoker I have acquired all of rotating assembly and cam. Summit has a 350,383 block which they say has been clearanced for the 3.75 crank should have in a week or so heads will be my next acquisition. My question is can I ship my parts to you and have you assemble and ship back
I was wondering I have a 1994 chevy k1500 5.7 before vortec and I bought some headers for it, but they have a round port and I believe the heads are square port could I still run these headers, side note: I want to say I can because the round ports are lager than the square but I'm not sure. Thought I would ask you cause I don't know anyone in my area
I'm building a 350 that I bought used. I do not know who the engine builder was. After removing the pan I found that all the rods had number stamps on them but did NOT correspond with the correct cylinders. What should I be looking for? Could this engine (rods) have been through a "balancing" or was someone just sick when they reassembled this engine?
I want to start this question by telling you I dont know anything about timing and Im struggling right now trying to set mine. Thats why Im here. Wouldnt it be easier to find TDC and THEN put the balancer on so the mark lines up wifh zero?????
Hey awesome video brother question so does it matter if you go from a 6 in to a 8 in balancer or is there a difference? I thought 8 In was for trucks and the smaller ones for cars but I don’t know that’s why I’m asking.
Great video. I have an goofy question I got an 400 sbc and it came without the crank key im finding different sizes woodland keys and mine crank has two key slots how do you install them
Great info. Don’t the Windsor small block fords haves few different timing marks and balances too? I remember a buddy of mine chasing the dragon with that on a 302 ford a few years back.
Unrelated to the video question. I would like your opinion on a crate engine I'm thinking of buying. A zz427 big block chevy crate engine. I will need to change oil pans for my application so I will be double checking main and rod bolt tightness. What would your concerns be ? I had a zz3 small block crate engine before. It was fine nothing wrong with it. A little to tame for me though.
could be other reasons like a chain being stretched or skipping or broken tooth on the timing gears, I have had problems with distributer bushing being worn and would only act up at higher rpm range, dwell would vary at higher rpm range. Another thought old wires that are heat baked will have higher resistance and get worse when energized check plugs, wires, etc along with Battery voltage
I have a question ? can you build a 331 cubic stroker out of a 305 block and using the 400 crank with block machining ? some guy said he has done this using parts laying around thought maybe this was crapola
Great video. I got a 307 motor from a friend and the distributor , carb, balancer and so-forth was in a box. Now I really don't know what I am doing because I am learning about this stuff. I checked on TH-cam on how to put the distributor on and set the timing. I found TDC then got the distributor to lock in place. But I was not on TDC anymore. I am not sure if I did it wrong, or is that normal??? Any pointers??? Thanks for sharing. Andy
one time i was messing with a 350 from a 1969 something going into a 1983 elcamino the balancer we got was for the 68 but for some reason it did not line up with the timming mark on the timming cover the line was no on top like you are mentioning it. probly the timming cover was from the latter also there is a heavy one and a light one from truck 350 and car 350 i forgot to mention it was from advance i found tdc with a wire in the #1 cylander found highest point and made my own mark works great still
Beating a balancer on the crank is a HUGE no no, !!!!!! as you're beating the hell out of the THRUST BEARING ! This is why when I build a 265/ 283 or early 327 I spend the extra $135.00 and get the small journal cranks drilled & tapped 1/2-20 for a bolt on balancer every time. You're asking for big problems in your rebuild using a hammer/Mallat on just about ANYTHING . At best it should be a light TAP fit. I get a kickout of the early Corvette collectors telling me that Balancer bolt is not correct ! That is TRUE it's not, and the thrust bearings should last 15 times longer not beating the hell out of the balancer on the crank before you ever stat the motor.
$135.00 !! wow I want you to be my customer I do the same thing the Divit in the crank snout centers the drill bit you can drill these cranks with a hand drill done it hundreds of times and yes to 1/2"
Since there is a little float at TDC where the connecting rod transitions from raising the piston to lowering the piston, my question is: Should I mark where the piston first reaches the top, and then mark again where the piston starts back down, then split the difference to mark my TDC? Or should I mark TDC where the piston first reaches the top?
it does not really matter all that much were only talking about a 1 to 3 degrees you can play with the timing after install for best results I start at 30 degrees of total timimg and bump it up 1 or 2 at a time until I start to get a slight ping under load the back it off a degree or 2
@@Myvintageiron7512 Thanks. I tend to over-analyze things a bit. With these older engines, I guess that there is no substitute for a good ear and years of experience. Thank you for helping us keep our old cars alive.
@@dojmike you can do what he does here with a bridge and also use an adjustable pointer with timing tape like MSD sells. Go 0.050" (or whatever as long as it is equal) both clockwise and counterclockwise down with the piston taking a reading of the degree at each point. Move it till it reads the same both ways. Then at 0 that should be true TDC. And perhaps consider using a square to mark 0, scribe/file and paint. Don't count on the timing tape stickin around lol cuz they seem to like to come off 😅. Now if you know what timing it'll likely want you could mark that too depending on the light you use. A normal na 23 degree SBC on pump gas up at 4,100 ft seems to like about 36 degrees total, maybe 34 with poor quench and less than great chamber heads. Also the tape is useful for dropping the distributor in around 12 degrees btdc rotor lined up with #1 on cap so it fires right up.
Tyran Ducksworth you need to find TDC on the #1 cylinder while on the compression stroke. I assume your dampener has 2 slots for a key way. Use the slot on the dampener that puts your timing mark on zero on the timing tab. Once you verify which mark it is use a paint pen or something similar to highlight the correct mark to make it a easy to time in the future.
Also, even though I consider myself a pretty well seasoned mechanic, I learned a long time ago to take good advice from people when it’s given. I have to say that watching your videos and listening to you has taught me a few things that I am truly grateful to know. Thank you for the time you spend making these great videos! They really help people out.
Nobody does it better than your videos--I've learned so much watching them. Thank you.
I used to run and build my own comp eliminator engines back in the '80s . We always lined up the woodruff key on the crankshaft with the zero line on the balancer.
We used to tape off an area 1/2 wide on the balancer and paint it white, then carefully and accurately scribe a line with a scratch awl across the balancer. This was a race engine that hardly ever saw dirt so it was always easy to see.
You can position the timing marks anywhere you need them as long as you verify the TDC for their accuracy. We ran a Hilborn front cover with a injector pump drive and an ATI superdamper. We would set the magneto timing statically with a buzz box so we were always referring back to the timing mark. It HAD to be accurate.
Great video!
5 years old, and its just as good - thank you, Great Video .
First a big thanx for taking the time to produce such informative videos. I usually take marking the damper a step further, by holding a carpenters square at the zero degree mark and using the side of the ruler as a guide to scribe a line using a triangular file. Then I can fill the groove with paint. Reason....I have lost the marks over time due to cleaning the engine, solvents, and plain dirt. Not being critical just my experience. Thanx again
I have been watching your videos for a few years now. you are by far the best instructor by far on the web.If I have any questions you are my trusted source,Thank you
Your Very Welcome!
I ran into that problem when I built my motor because I didn't use the original timing chain cover, instead used a chrome cover, took a bit of figuring it out. Always enjoy your videos, thanks for your time.
Been fighting this problem for months on my build, great post. 👍🏼
Thank you. I used the timing mark on the balancer, and it kicked my ass. You the man. Thanks for the video.
Excellent video Pro Engine builder. You do a great job. Best Ive seen.
THX
Thank you! That totally explained our confusion when replacing a distributor and trying to time it!
You Bet
Thank God I came across your video. I was pissed and about to start tearing it back apart thinking I was off a tooth when I know I put it together correctly. Thank you Thank you
I just entertained myself watching other timing videos. Lol. Thanks for your time Man.
*GM 350 is one of the BEST V8's built along with the LS Engines!!! AWESOME VIDOES*
Not sure I agree with you, there have been so many different versions of the sbc and most of them were not that great, maybe that was the metallurgy of the day or the fact that the american autoworkers back then relied on the union to keep there jobs not the job quality they performed. A four bolt main block was your bst bet on longevity and GM put out some really nasty engines. I do agree that the LS engines were a leap forward in with there drive trains and were way over due. I have a 95 vette with the second to last year for the SBC being an LT1 . So in my opinion which ever asshole put the Opti-spark on the front of the engine, directly under the water pump should be kicked in the head you choose which one, but that's is only a small example, The Lt1 is a much better engine when compared to the sbc just as the LS engine is superior to the the LT1. to be clear I mean the pre LS LT1's engines, since LT1 is a sales code that has been adopted into it's own model designation over the decades.
You mean that ford copy / LS 🤣
Your video mentions " some people " having problems with the timing on their sbc. I must admit that I have been one of the them. I have been so damn frustrated with the work I have done on my 82 c/20 with a stock 350 this last year during this pandemic B.S, With getting a used car/truck anything you never know what your really getting even new cars can be lemons right off the lot, so when you don't have a base line of what is working 100% as it should you can start chasing down possible causes for what is going on. So I bought this truck and it ran barely, and to my amazement passed smog out here in California that is actually something. So I have done alot of work with out having done the big dollar items and for the most part had to replace everything emissions related if parts were available. I ended up replacing the front of the engine ( new cloyes double roller timing chain and gears} along with cover , balancer , w/p, viscous fan, radiator etc. Now fast forward to last month when I have everything back together and start the truck. Set timing, idle speed and air/fuel mixture with a vacuum gauge ( installed a Remanufactured QuadraJet by Rochester } things running great. Take it for smog and it fails and print out says 32 BTDC. WTF !!!
So I want to say thank you for this particular video, it is the only one that addresses this issue, I have read about the different diameter balancers between the different years and engine sizes but when ordering the parts there was nothing about the tabs and marks on the balancer etc.
After watching your video I went out put engine tdc #1 and sure as shit the mark was off about 1.5 inches on the balancer. So I put a new mark on the balancer and ordered a movable marker for the cover. Not sure when I'm going to pull the front of the engine apart to put it on or just do the math when I retime it because it's still off a few degrees or my timing light is messed up because 6 degrees btdc is still printing out as 12degrees at the emissions testing facility.
I am sorry for leaving such a lengthy message. I hope it gets the point across how frustrated I was and how helpful your video has been to me recently. I have shared this info with the few sbc chevy friends I hang out with, and like me they have never heard of this before.
A good rule of thumb for anyone who repairs or fixes anything cars or not - Always compare new parts to the old ones and don't assume a part even if it's brand new , that it will work properly or is even the correct part. Thank you again keep up the good work and for sharing your knowledge with the rest of us " some people".
Thank you so much for this. My car has a replacement engine with a lot of unknowns about what parts came from what year and type of engine. I'm new to Chevy engines and had no idea they moved the timing tabs around in this way but I wondered why I could barely see the timing tab way up under the water pump. The car is a 75 corvette with an engine from a 80 Z28. This explains it and perhaps why my timing seems so far out (the primaries on the carb are all sooted up) even though the timing seems to be on when looking at the marks. It's either this or the balancer has slipped. Either way...thanks for this video. Very helpful to me. Subscribed!
This is one example of why people with timing belt engines should go to a dealer or a shop that services one manufacturer of a car. The other reasons include fast turnaround times due to the number of times the staff has replaced your kind of timing belt. Most cities in the USA have a "European cars only" shop, some cities in the northern USA have "Subaru only" shops, and most big cities will have a "Toyota and Lexus only" shop. Some cities may even specialize in one model of car, I am not sure how many cities have a "Nissan Z cars only" shop but there are a few. Those places will have that balancer installation tool for each application, whereas shops that service everything will usually rely on a soft hammer and block of wood.
I think the early Mazda Miata and certain variants of Mitsubishi Eclipse would develop problems quickly if that tool wasn't used. Those engines were already troublesome anyway, so I don't know if using the specific balancer installation tool helps anything.
Mazdas with overhead cams when a none Mazda oil filter was used would generate a tick noise from the lifters. Replaced those by the buckets. The Mazda tech reps said they had a patient on the pressure by pass valve in the filter versus the block or adapter like most engines, so aftermarket filters didn't have this valve and only 50-70% of oil was filtered causing the lifter oil holes to clog over time.
This was back in mid 90s when I worked at a Mazda dealer. Timing belt and lifters was almost daily.
This explains my timing issue! Thanks, good explanation, and easy to follow.
Same here
Haven’t built a engine yet from block to fire so this was good info for me to watch for. Being a novice, less issues to avoid is good for me.
so 2 years since you replied have you built your engine or achieved a field promotion from novice yet?
You should do a video on putting a supercharger on a sbc, awesome videos so much knowledge!
Thank you!! been scratching my head at this.
Happy to help!
I just want to say "Thank you" for this video. You saved a trip for the doctors, in their clean whites suits, from coming and taking me away to the "Funny Farm"... 😯😲😮😜
bro im having trouble seting my timing, but thanks to you now I have the answer to my problem???? awsome dude keep up the good work. p.s wish you were here in kansas city i could use your help, thank you sir for your time sir!!!!!
Thanks for the video you're always very meticulous I like that back in the day depending on what keyway positioning you asked for would depend on where your mark was
wow your talking about offset keys, a person from my generation. I title myself as a B.C mechanic ( before computers )
All due respect, using a dial indicator as shown in this video (at 5:35 into the video), is not the most accurate means of locating True TDC.
Reason.... the crankshaft can still roll a bit (in either direction) while the piston only "appears" to be stationary while at theorectical TDC.
Using the same principle, we want to stop the crankshaft at an equal distance on either side of theorectical TDC.
This can be done using a dial indicator with an "in-the-hole" distance of .250" (for example), or by using a degree wheel and a PPS tool (positive piston stop), and targetting a "stopping point" of 25*/30* on either side of theorectical TDC. (we can also use 20*, 25*, 30* or even 35*, as long as the split is enough for better accuracy)
But let's say that we use the dial indicator method:
We bring the crankshaft around and stop rotating it when the piston is exactly .250" (or a demension of your choice) from the cylinder block deck, as indicated by the dial indicator..
At that point, we stop rotating the crankshaft.
We mark the balancer aligning with the ZERO tab mark.
Now we do this same thing in the opposite direction, and once again stop rotating when the piston is .250" from the cylinder block deck, as indicated by the dial indicator..
Once again, we mark the balancer aligning with the ZERO tab mark.
Next, we accurately split the difference between these two new marks, make a NEW mark, and then rotate the crankshaft until the NEW "split" mark aligns with the ZERO on the timing tab.
Now we have established True #1 TDC.
If the OEM markings are off, we need to get rid of them, and/or make the new marks very bright and much more visible.
Again, all due respect to the author of this video.
You can just buy the proper timing tab. it is for a late model first gen SBC. It puts the timing tab over center at the 12:00 o'clock position. It's called a 12:00 O'clock timing tab.
sure that is true once you are aware of that being an issue. Before that moment your trying to set the timing, when everything else is correct your mind starts going down every scenario, stretched timing chain, vacuum leaks etc. knowledge is power, doing a repair is not difficult but proper diagnosis is truly a gift and comes with experiance in the field not from a laptop or an app.
The best days include Myvintageiron7512 videos.
Great Pro tip. More interesting is that blue skirted block on the yellow engine stand.
Ford 428
just what i was looking for ---my balancer the factory mark is several inches off so when i got to top dead center i made new mark on crank-i put a small plug in # 1 rolled engine over when it pops plug i stop factory mark way off have try to start ,but getting clos -good video
Today is a sad day for me. Instead of installing the engine I am having to tear it apart again as I was rotating the block and priming it with oil I heard a snap and now a few of my push rods are bent on cylinders 3,5 and 6 .The only upside to this is I am glad I did not find out after installing it on my truck. Now its back to square 1 for me. Another hard lesson to be learned today I just hope the damage is not to bad when I find out the aftermath. 5.7 Vortec back to the machine shop that did the head work and provided me with a custom cam a 265 and 480 lift ex. and int. I was told it will work with the stock parts since the cam is not to high.
that sucks
@@Myvintageiron7512 Talk about bad timing had I seen your video before I would of spent the extra bucks for a cam dagree tool I just went off the mark on the original dampner and looked at went off the #1 piston valves Both being closed and thought it was all gravey boy was I wrong!!
This was the video I needed.
Well done and thanks
Lots of videos and tv shows show someone beating on the balancer, even with wood or mallet etc. Reason that is bad, you're beating the crank back witch can damage bearings, rear seal and more than likely the main bearing that sets your fore and aft play on your crank.
If a "professional" tv automotive show is showing the viewers that beating on the balancer is an ok common practice, that tv show needs to be taken off the air. I'm tired of seeing shows that wait until the very last second to start the engine without a proper break in, or to even see if there's going to be mechanical issues during startup while it's still on the stand. Once an engine has been dropped in, it's all the more difficult to remove troublesome parts.
Outstanding dude ! You give us good stuff we can use...thanks !!!
Great video my friend. One of the things I was thinking about was the balancer depth difference for the reluctor ring on vortec 350s I use the factory balancer without the reluctor rings and usually just turn a .100” spacer out of a washer or something to take up the slack present when the ring is not installed. You may mention this in one of your videos if you haven’t already. I think I’ve heard you speak of this before though. Love the videos and I’ve been subscribed for at least a year!
That is a good point I always buy a new balancer when I build one so when I do a vortec w/ reluctor wheel I buy the correct balancer if reusing it I just leave the reluctor wheel in there
I appreciate this video and anything related to sbc 350s
Its little things like that
That could really confuse me if i didnt know about it
It’s funny because my shop just figured out this was the issue with my motor. I’m getting my truck out the shop tomorrow
Thank you, just what was I was looking to find out! I have two sbc's next to eachother, one with a new balancer and struggling to get the timing figured out. Checked the other engine and notice it had the tab at 12. This one has a tab 1. Likely the mark on the balancer is setup for 12... Time to find tdc and check!
Glad I could help!
So concise, great video, love your content
cool thx
Very practical and informative . Thanks
there is an adjustable timing mark kit from Summit or Jegs that
can solve the balancer/timing mark issue.
Thx for the info, I didn't know about that. Could have caused a lot of headaches when assembling my engine
And I'm from Vermont and I have to admit I never thought I'd see the day where you had to wait for the parts store to order small block Chevy parts
I wasn't very surprised. I remember doing oil changes back in 2010 and 2011, and the repair shops either didn't stock oil filters for the Chevy 350, or had very few in stock. The older trucks became very uncommon, so most trucks had a LS engine or a variant of the 4.3 V6. Bother the LS engine and 4.3 V6 used different filters from the SBC 350.
At the same time, the equivalent of the Motorcraft FL1A was not always stocked at the repair shop because there were so few cars and trucks that still used them.
Fortunately for us, both types of filter were just a phone call away from the major parts stores.
Bab Bab NAPA can’t even get many internal engine parts for a 350 anymore. It’s been almost 20 yrs since the last 5.7 was made. That’s a long time nowadays in the car business. Add to that the fact that LS engines are so dominant to Chevy guys now that it makes little business sense to fill shelves with 350 stuff anymore. Parts will be available online for 350s for decades to come so it’s no big deal.
I cant find a crank... :(
What kind of Crank are you looking for just a stock small block
Bab Bab yes please.... allied, napa, edle, amazon, jegs and didnt find anything. Even kits seem to be void of cranks. Making me cranky...lol
I've always installed the timing chain cover BEFORE installing the balancer. logic tells me it's an easier fit!!
???
that's the point i was making!!!!!!!!!!!!!@@SMOBY44
Very helpful, thank you.
Having this issue right now ! Thanks for the info
My only advice in your video which is great a reminder is the size of the Harmonic balancer as well as the vehicle it will go into. The reason i say that is Amazon and eBay sellers for example state that an 8 inch balancer will fit my 350 1976 Corvette and at a Google forum Internet search discussion some state that a bigger balancer when upgrading the power grid will reduce the vibration better.
Now the OEM 1976 C3 Corvette balancer is just 6.75 inches, but sellers and Amazon state that an 8 inch will fit. and it will on the shaft. So why the differences in the size of the balancer? I contacted Professional Products who sells both an 8 inch and a 6.75 inch at Amazon for a 1976 Corvette and gave them all the upgrades I am doing to the Corvette and his return email recommended or advised I stay with the 6.75 inch as the 8 inch may hit the cross member or other items in the area. So my assessment is that the 8 inch is really for a strip driving and not for a street driving with additional items like power steering, A/C frame member. So I returned the 8 inch and purchased a 6.76 inch OEM upgraded quality Harmonic Balancer instead. 😉
Check your clearance most balancers I bought have over 2 thousand press I hone mine out so I have 1.2 to 1 thousand,,,,, now that is if your crank and balancer are new but I think you should always check it!
Thank you so much for this video!!
You are so welcome!
Awesome information
Fixed my problem Thanks
Great tool, interesting engines on the stands as well
Great video. Keep them coming.
I learn that timing location. The hard way.
Great advice!!
Thanks for sharing!
Larry
Thanks for answering me. I was entertaining the idea of building a promod. I watched your Ford vs Chevy video. I'm a die HARD ford guy. That being said I have two Mustangs right now. I know that Fords cost per HP is higher then Chevy. I would love to hear you opinion of this topic. where is Mopar in the after market now. I went into Heavy equipment repair and haven't raced in 30 years. I also may need to throw some work your way. I wasn't trolling you. My 17 hasn't had it's oil changed yet so I can't do to many mods yet. It has 3750 this evening but I have had it at the track twice. Staging at a tree felt really good. The base V6 Mustang will have to go. The cost of a S550 5.0 swap wouldn't be worth it.
How many degrees different are the marks?
Dang the under taker builds chevys 😄jk good video !
I think I have this problem on a 4.3 V-6. The mark on the balancer is off by a simular anount. Unfortunately the engine is completely installed. Any suggestions on finding TDC on a assembled engine. Ok ther than a pencle in the spark plug hole?
Great video brother I’ve been off the whole time it’s go time
Thanks for your videos brother there help a lot👍
How to fix the issue when the engine is in the truck?
Should I replace the balancer? Should I swap or modify the timing tab?
Love your videos.
I bought a L31 Crate engine from Jegs. Would the timing mark be correct on a new crate engine or should I check it?
It has the stock plastic timing cover and balancer that came with the engine from GM.
Thanks
If GM put the balancer on I'm sure it's fine
What size harmonic balancer I need on a 350 Chevy 8in, 6in , or does it real make a diffidence what size the outside diameter is?
On 350 and larger, id go with an 8 inch balancer. Less vibration, less crank deflection, quicker off the line.
Great info bro I really appreciate it thanks for the video
Thanx ... I finally got it !😀
Great 👍
Didn't know the balancer goes on the camshaft,tighten it till it hits the cam? Also no mention of a key?
My timing cover doesn’t have a timing tab…I do have degrees on my balancer tho having a hard time
How do you know if you're at top dead center of compression or exhaust on any engine?
Nearly had a problem with a new goodwrench 350 by using an Oreillys OEM balancer, and using the 2 Oclock tab that came with the motor...I had her perfectly marked at TDC on the timing tab. A good mechanic helped me start it up by messing with the carb throttle, when I turned it over it backfired thru the carb...he then quickly removed the plugs on the cap and advanced them one spot counterclockwise, and she ran fine for break-in. I never figured this out until 4 years later....that Oreillys sold me a 12 oclock balancer for my 82 chevy, as this was OEM for GM trucks from 76-86ish. If I had bought it from Jegs or Summit, it would have 2 oclock. If it wasnt for that mechanic, I would have likely trashed that cam/motor on startup.
Auto zone sells an 8" balancer for SBC and it only has the 12 o clock mark they list it for all yaers of 350 it cuases untold fits for many of their customers who buy their balancer it's not a bad product they are made by Dorman fine for stock replacement but you need to remark them I always check my TDC with a bridge gage after my short block assembly but that is not so easy when changing a balancer with the engine in the car/truck I would say anytime your replacing a SBC balancer compare the new and old balancers very closely
New subscriber to your channel. Looking for info on hei distributor installation and timing info. Great videos
i have videos on both
I am currently researching to build 383 stoker I have acquired all of rotating assembly and cam. Summit has a 350,383 block which they say has been clearanced for the 3.75 crank should have in a week or so heads will be my next acquisition. My question is can I ship my parts to you and have you assemble and ship back
I was wondering I have a 1994 chevy k1500 5.7 before vortec and I bought some headers for it, but they have a round port and I believe the heads are square port could I still run these headers, side note: I want to say I can because the round ports are lager than the square but I'm not sure. Thought I would ask you cause I don't know anyone in my area
They will work fine
Good tip 👍😊. Thanks.
Thanks a lot! have the same issue. i understand now...
Great tip. Thanks
I'm building a 350 that I bought used. I do not know who the engine builder was. After removing the pan I found that all the rods had number stamps on them but did NOT correspond with the correct cylinders. What should I be looking for? Could this engine (rods) have been through a "balancing" or was someone just sick when they reassembled this engine?
I want to start this question by telling you I dont know anything about timing and Im struggling right now trying to set mine. Thats why Im here.
Wouldnt it be easier to find TDC and THEN put the balancer on so the mark lines up wifh zero?????
kinda old comment, but the balancer is keyed so it will only fit on one way. wont really make a difference.
I purchased a used 350 engine and it runs great. Only issue is timing mark is at bottom of engine. So 180° off. Why?
Where is your number 1 spark plug wire on your cap?
@Myvintageiron7512 It's in the #1 position.
Thank you sooo much im building a 327 right now and ran into this!!!!
Hey awesome video brother question so does it matter if you go from a 6 in to a 8 in balancer or is there a difference? I thought 8 In was for trucks and the smaller ones for cars but I don’t know that’s why I’m asking.
8 inch will work fine
@@Myvintageiron7512 thanks
Great video. I have an goofy question I got an 400 sbc and it came without the crank key im finding different sizes woodland keys and mine crank has two key slots how do you install them
Great info.
Don’t the Windsor small block fords haves few different timing marks and balances too?
I remember a buddy of mine chasing the dragon with that on a 302 ford a few years back.
Yes the fords are even worse multiple balancers and timing mark locations
Thanks. That’s exactly my situation.
you and me both.
That must be the problem I'm having.
Changed everything so far, and still lose the mark when it starts to run nice.
Unrelated to the video question. I would like your opinion on a crate engine I'm thinking of buying. A zz427 big block chevy crate engine. I will need to change oil pans for my application so I will be double checking main and rod bolt tightness. What would your concerns be ? I had a zz3 small block crate engine before. It was fine nothing wrong with it. A little to tame for me though.
Thank you!
You saved me thanks 🙏🏽
Awesome info!!
Thank you!!!
Thanks so much
So I have been fighting timing on my car I am going to try everything you said because I have a feeling I have the issue of my timing mark being off.
could be other reasons like a chain being stretched or skipping or broken tooth on the timing gears, I have had problems with distributer bushing being worn and would only act up at higher rpm range, dwell would vary at higher rpm range. Another thought old wires that are heat baked will have higher resistance and get worse when energized check plugs, wires, etc along with Battery voltage
can you explain why gm used different size balancers and why.
I have a question ? can you build a 331 cubic stroker out of a 305 block and using the 400 crank with block machining ? some guy said he has done this using parts laying around thought maybe this was crapola
Great video. I got a 307 motor from a friend and the distributor , carb, balancer and so-forth was in a box. Now I really don't know what I am doing because I am learning about this stuff. I checked on TH-cam on how to put the distributor on and set the timing. I found TDC then got the distributor to lock in place. But I was not on TDC anymore. I am not sure if I did it wrong, or is that normal??? Any pointers??? Thanks for sharing. Andy
th-cam.com/video/O4WRL513Gx4/w-d-xo.html
one time i was messing with a 350 from a 1969 something going into a 1983 elcamino the balancer we got was for the 68 but for some reason it did not line up with the timming mark on the timming cover the line was no on top like you are mentioning it. probly the timming cover was from the latter also there is a heavy one and a light one from truck 350 and car 350 i forgot to mention it was from advance i found tdc with a wire in the #1 cylander found highest point and made my own mark works great still
Beating a balancer on the crank is a HUGE no no, !!!!!! as you're beating the hell out of the THRUST BEARING ! This is why when I build a 265/ 283 or early 327 I spend the extra $135.00 and get the small journal cranks drilled & tapped 1/2-20 for a bolt on balancer every time. You're asking for big problems in your rebuild using a hammer/Mallat on just about ANYTHING . At best it should be a light TAP fit. I get a kickout of the early Corvette collectors telling me that Balancer bolt is not correct ! That is TRUE it's not, and the thrust bearings should last 15 times longer not beating the hell out of the balancer on the crank before you ever stat the motor.
$135.00 !! wow I want you to be my customer I do the same thing the Divit in the crank snout centers the drill bit you can drill these cranks with a hand drill done it hundreds of times and yes to 1/2"
Since there is a little float at TDC where the connecting rod transitions from raising the piston to lowering the piston, my question is: Should I mark where the piston first reaches the top, and then mark again where the piston starts back down, then split the difference to mark my TDC? Or should I mark TDC where the piston first reaches the top?
it does not really matter all that much were only talking about a 1 to 3 degrees you can play with the timing after install for best results I start at 30 degrees of total timimg and bump it up 1 or 2 at a time until I start to get a slight ping under load the back it off a degree or 2
@@Myvintageiron7512 Thanks. I tend to over-analyze things a bit. With these older engines, I guess that there is no substitute for a good ear and years of experience. Thank you for helping us keep our old cars alive.
@@dojmike you can do what he does here with a bridge and also use an adjustable pointer with timing tape like MSD sells. Go 0.050" (or whatever as long as it is equal) both clockwise and counterclockwise down with the piston taking a reading of the degree at each point. Move it till it reads the same both ways. Then at 0 that should be true TDC. And perhaps consider using a square to mark 0, scribe/file and paint. Don't count on the timing tape stickin around lol cuz they seem to like to come off 😅.
Now if you know what timing it'll likely want you could mark that too depending on the light you use. A normal na 23 degree SBC on pump gas up at 4,100 ft seems to like about 36 degrees total, maybe 34 with poor quench and less than great chamber heads.
Also the tape is useful for dropping the distributor in around 12 degrees btdc rotor lined up with #1 on cap so it fires right up.
What kind of studs are those? I tried that using grade 8 bolts and they bent immediately. Granted I had the pulley on so I couldn't get that close
How do you know what to set timing at
The timing mark should be lined up with the keyway slot in the inside of the balancer
That's not correct for a Chevy
Great video my damper has two marks on it and my timing cover has one position which mark do I use
Tyran Ducksworth you need to find TDC on the #1 cylinder while on the compression stroke. I assume your dampener has 2 slots for a key way. Use the slot on the dampener that puts your timing mark on zero on the timing tab. Once you verify which mark it is use a paint pen or something similar to highlight the correct mark to make it a easy to time in the future.