The real shame is that Blizzard did all this stuff with AI, but then never implemented it where it would actually apply: singleplayer campaign. Imagine more missions where you had a competent AI partner that actually built well. They could have also added in bots for the co-op commanders as well. It's silly to only have the good ai for unranked ladder.
Something I remember is my dad playing 1 vs 7 ai's on toxic slums back in wings of liberty. He always had the belief that Starcraft was the better game, but that Starcraft 2 had better gameplay. I am very excited to see how he reacts to this combination, and I always enjoy playing with him.
SC1 Reavers do actually have a "stun delay" when being dropped by a Shuttle. I think I also remember Tasteless or Artosis mentioning that Protoss in one of the release patches used to be busted because when Shuttle Reaver micro was discovered, reavers would instantly attack so you could hotkey the reaver inside the shuttle and instantly load it back into the shuttle and it will get a shot off (basically like how in SC2 you use to be able to load Sieged Tanks and have them instantly fire too)
I wonder if it would have been more intuitive to just have Reavers have a long fire delay (forgot what's the term called), like how Thors has a wind up before firing
@@HibiscusOrchid No, this is the biggest mechanical issue with sc2 firebats. It’s a splash damage unit. You’re using it against groups of small enemies. It will target the closest zergling, and before they can fire, the zergling will die to other units. So the reaver/firebat has to change targets and charge up all over again. It will end up never firing in the context of a large army
WAIT WHAT IT WORKS WITH AI ? Grant i love u mate ! I was hesitant to try this mod out because of multiplayer anxiety but this just sold me to come back and do some games ! Thanks a bunch !
This is one of the fun mods in arcade, i like how well sc1 broodwar units were brough to sc2 and the ability to fight sc1 bw version vs sc2 version of races, but yea the custom models changes and all of it really makes it very fancy
@@Raiggonaxes you know, I thought about making the stream for a day, once in a month, where Grant will play this with viewers. Just imaging how good it would be lol.
The AI controller never gets attention because the game by design focuses on either PVP or PVE content. P&EVP&E is something that could be a really interesting concept that you just never see.
@@L3monsta I believe that the E stands for 'Entity', a term which usually represents non-player foes. Using acronyms inside acronyms usually doesn't work well, as you have proposed, and P&E V P&E is perfectly fine in this scenario
@@samuelhawkins3820 it seems we have three different variations of what the e stands for...making it a fairly nebulous term. I think sticking to ai would still be clearer
Imagine a LotV BW edition where instead of top bars all the solarite you collect goes to starting resources. Or a Coop commander where you can allocate mastery to starting resources and additional starting structures
There sort of already is with a somewhat custom zerg faction, I forget the name right now but you get a hero zergling that isn't busted, and other fancy stuff like that.
If you can control the AI, does that mean you could do a game mode where you just have like a single unit or building and you control your AI allies to fight AI's controlled by your human opponent?
Heptacraft was also really interesting while it was still alive. Had some factions that were more similar to the originals (seven total factions). Alas, never worked with the ai.
Wow. I literally watched a video about this mod yesterday and was hoping that you would cover it in the future. Little did i know that you must have already been streaming it 😅
Wait the dev actually recreate the ultimate battle between BW's Dark Archon vs Derpfestor from the Carbot series! Imagine they kidnap all 3 race workers and begin their chaotic warfare against each other though
This is a mod where a dozen science vessels can irradiate a dozen different high-value units in two seconds, psi storms don't pull a punch, and defilers start spell battles against medics. This mod is awesome.
Wow, I never knew about this feature but it seems like a really cool thing to make a custom map/mod off of. Imagine a SC2 "god game" where you are responsible for ordering a bunch of AIs around to complete objectives. Or even doing something like a republic commando type of thing where each AI has tools you need to win and you have to order them to progress.
I actually haven't heard hardly anything about Melee Mods, let alone anything positive about them. Covering this is a huge help to me, thank you very much for the video!
The SC2 AI is damn funny sometimes. Sometimes they'll start expanding to other areas and then straight up start building up like it's a WOL mission. Setting them lower than Elite just makes em send weak waves ranging from a flock of zerglings to a full army. Also I forgot that they also burrow drones when their drones have nowhere to go.
As someone who almost exclusively plays vs AI in RTS, the SC2 AI is generally pretty good, and controlling AI allies is well done! There are plenty of ways to break the AI tho (they can't deal with liberators for example) and they play in a very rigid non-human way that makes it very repetitive to play against them. It feels very much like the AI has a very solid core, but didn't get updated very well with HotS/LotV, nor after balance patches. I think AoE2:DE generally does this better. The AI is continuously updated and improved and while it has its own issues, every game feels a lot more dynamic and unique. I would've loved for Blizzard to give the AI the same amount of love.
I thought the SC1 workers mine faster because SC1 workers accelerate from zero to full instantly while SC2 workers ramp up over a second or so slowing the time to both reach the minerals and to deliver them once mined. This results in a mining rate similar to having 3 SC2 workers on each patch for each 2 SC1 workers
Huh, I wonder what about Starcraft I zerglings makes them more durable in a Starcraft II context. I thought the big thing that made them worse in Starcraft II was just that the better pathing made them clump up more and other units are more powerful even though the zerglings base stats was the same?
@@momom6197 I see that but I'm wondering what goes into making it happen. Is the base attack speed higher? The cracklings in Starcraft II also get the +50% attack speed after all.
I just had an idea for a challenge run if you want (though you'd need to find a modder willing to do it): any of the three campaigns, but you can't actually control anything and instead have to give the AI orders like you would to AI allies (maybe adding a few extra commands if it's possible to add).
I really hope they make a few maps specifically for BW. Right now the environment is SC2, with all its QoL, I'd love to see how SC1 fairs against SC2 when you have more Min, with less gas.
There is a reason why SC Broodwar zerg rules. lings 1 supply for 2 lings.. Hydralisk 1 supply. Ultralisk 4 supply. You actually feel like THE SWARM. And boy is Brood War Ultralisk fast as they should be.
I love the AI, i play a lot with them in skirmish. I do wish there was a similair AI for playing co-op with as well that would make me really happy as i got no friends :D
When I see this it remembers me of the good old sc1 campaigns. Wouldn‘t it be fun to Take the Units from sc1 to sc2 and make a Remake of the old campaigns just with the benefits of sc2 like the better pathing, better AI and bigger command groups?
I really wish you tried to infest the BW Command Center, because the BW Infested Marines are *amazing*! Banelings wish they were BW Infested Marines. The difference in damage output is glorious.
IT WORKS WITH AI!? I can't wait for modders to start adding it into campaign. Imagine zergs on aiur being sc1 zerg since nobody made them evolve since overmind died. Or the outdated equipment Orland would use.
Huh.. I always thought SC1 creep gave increased health regen to Zerg units on it, though I noticed it did not grant the speed buff SC2 creep has.. does it not give regen either? Is SC1 creep *just* for Zerg building placement? Huh. Neat.
I honestly didn't know mod works with AI bots. I have heard about this mod before but I was never interested in it because I thought it was PvP only. I might give it a few skirmish games then.
So one thing, i think BW protoss AI its not implemented yet(Terran and zerg are obviously) If you pay attenton the pink BW protoss was kinda weird, it just used some dragoons i think but everything else was very innactive
Not quite, they do just as well as the other factions in my experience, you might've just had bad luck. I've literally gotten crushed by a tide of a million dragoons and reavers.
@@KaiserMattTygore927 @brianlance8263 I think thats exactly the issue, they do that because its a temporary solution. And the colossi, i think it doesn't really matter. The devs thenselves said the protoss AI wasn't done yet lol
if blizzard ever makes a SC3 this mod is a must have staple with then SC1, SC2 and SC3 versions. is it going to be balanced? not really but that isn't the point it gives people who play SC seriously a semi casual mode and good jumping on point for people to get used to the new game. just like the co-op factions would be a must for a SC3 since it is a form of long term casual content. then you would have the balanced SC3 only 1v1 which would be the balanced mode. but even that i think could be spiced up by the side content. what if the balanced SC3 version of a faction is the pick and mixed version from the co-op mode and SC1/SC2 and as a means of balance or to shake things up in a new season is to swap a couple of units in an out. like say protoss is too strong so the Auir immortal gets swapped with the tal'darim immortal. would totally change how things work but such changes would be very limited to try and maintain balance and understanding where things would end up.
The real shame is that Blizzard did all this stuff with AI, but then never implemented it where it would actually apply: singleplayer campaign. Imagine more missions where you had a competent AI partner that actually built well. They could have also added in bots for the co-op commanders as well. It's silly to only have the good ai for unranked ladder.
Campaign requires some heavy restrictions. You don't want AI to win for player, but with player.
@@RealMajorKaza Sure, but if the enemy ai was also intelligent, having the AI partner wouldn't guarantee victory.
This is standard AI, every AI does in any other RTS games like Age of empires for example.
Something I remember is my dad playing 1 vs 7 ai's on toxic slums back in wings of liberty. He always had the belief that Starcraft was the better game, but that Starcraft 2 had better gameplay. I am very excited to see how he reacts to this combination, and I always enjoy playing with him.
SC1 Reavers do actually have a "stun delay" when being dropped by a Shuttle. I think I also remember Tasteless or Artosis mentioning that Protoss in one of the release patches used to be busted because when Shuttle Reaver micro was discovered, reavers would instantly attack so you could hotkey the reaver inside the shuttle and instantly load it back into the shuttle and it will get a shot off (basically like how in SC2 you use to be able to load Sieged Tanks and have them instantly fire too)
I wonder if it would have been more intuitive to just have Reavers have a long fire delay (forgot what's the term called), like how Thors has a wind up before firing
@@HibiscusOrchid
No, this is the biggest mechanical issue with sc2 firebats. It’s a splash damage unit. You’re using it against groups of small enemies. It will target the closest zergling, and before they can fire, the zergling will die to other units. So the reaver/firebat has to change targets and charge up all over again. It will end up never firing in the context of a large army
Ah, so that is where the loaded siege tanks function went. I guess some people don't like fun, but prefer balance.
I can already smell the mods for each of the campains with sc1 factions
Yessss! Exactly this! :D
Wol, with broodwar terran?
hots with broodwar zerg?
lotv with broodwar protoss?
YES Please
Grant: "I have brood war zerglings!"
Enemy widow mine: (excited servo)
WAIT WHAT IT WORKS WITH AI ? Grant i love u mate ! I was hesitant to try this mod out because of multiplayer anxiety but this just sold me to come back and do some games ! Thanks a bunch !
Yes, it is decent, for an AI
The AI is good enough to kick you butt every now and then too, so it's definitely worth trying.
Ah fuck I legit read this in Nagito's voice damn it
This is one of the fun mods in arcade, i like how well sc1 broodwar units were brough to sc2 and the ability to fight sc1 bw version vs sc2 version of races, but yea the custom models changes and all of it really makes it very fancy
I would happily watch Grant play this more often. Deffo a great occasional piece betwen content :)
@@Raiggonaxes you know, I thought about making the stream for a day, once in a month, where Grant will play this with viewers. Just imaging how good it would be lol.
These SC1 models need to get into Mass Recall, they look incredible
Those vultures especially
This mod reminds me so much of Generals Evolution, since it's also a remake of an older game (Generals) in a newer polished engine (Red Alert 3)
The AI controller never gets attention because the game by design focuses on either PVP or PVE content.
P&EVP&E is something that could be a really interesting concept that you just never see.
I don't think p&e v p&e makes sense as a acronym. E stands for environment
I think you mean p&ai v p&ai
@@L3monstaI thought E stood for "Everyone" as in Player vs Everyone?
@@L3monsta I believe that the E stands for 'Entity', a term which usually represents non-player foes. Using acronyms inside acronyms usually doesn't work well, as you have proposed, and P&E V P&E is perfectly fine in this scenario
@@samuelhawkins3820 it seems we have three different variations of what the e stands for...making it a fairly nebulous term. I think sticking to ai would still be clearer
@@L3monsta This is definetely correct, I mean it's one found on dictionaries and on several searches everywhere.
Really hamstrung pink with that "you need to build colossus, you know, that unit you're incapable of producing."
Now that Broodwar and Warcraft 3 have both been remade in Starcraft 2, Starcraft vs. Warcraft when?
A PAIN to balance out XD
@@GATCornebre I would be very curious on who is playing SC v WC and getting concerned about balance xD
Yeah the hit points of a Human Footman is 420 (I think), and a Terran Marine is only 45. So balancing will be a huge issue.
I do like the little detail that the unit currently targeted by the reaver's scarabs gets a highlight
I'm sure someone's gonna be making a campaign mod with BW stuff with the BW stats instead of the preexisting units that are already in SC2
Imagine a LotV BW edition where instead of top bars all the solarite you collect goes to starting resources. Or a Coop commander where you can allocate mastery to starting resources and additional starting structures
There sort of already is with a somewhat custom zerg faction, I forget the name right now but you get a hero zergling that isn't busted, and other fancy stuff like that.
mass recall 2
If you can control the AI, does that mean you could do a game mode where you just have like a single unit or building and you control your AI allies to fight AI's controlled by your human opponent?
Heptacraft was also really interesting while it was still alive. Had some factions that were more similar to the originals (seven total factions). Alas, never worked with the ai.
i very much enjoy everything about this mod. I've been watching battles between sc1 and sc2 races and its been fun.
This is objectively the best mod for this game.
This mod actually made me play SC2 for hours which I hadn't done since 2010.
The models for the Brood War factions look amazing. And the fact this works with AI is so wonderful.
This got me some CoH2 vibes, where you have two German factions. Slightly similiar, but playstyle is totally different.
Wow. I literally watched a video about this mod yesterday and was hoping that you would cover it in the future.
Little did i know that you must have already been streaming it 😅
Wait the dev actually recreate the ultimate battle between BW's Dark Archon vs Derpfestor from the Carbot series! Imagine they kidnap all 3 race workers and begin their chaotic warfare against each other though
I do like that Grant at 9:47 says to defend and then AI 3 at 9:52 says they are all-in attacking just like other players they never listen to you
This is a mod where a dozen science vessels can irradiate a dozen different high-value units in two seconds, psi storms don't pull a punch, and defilers start spell battles against medics. This mod is awesome.
Wow, I never knew about this feature but it seems like a really cool thing to make a custom map/mod off of. Imagine a SC2 "god game" where you are responsible for ordering a bunch of AIs around to complete objectives. Or even doing something like a republic commando type of thing where each AI has tools you need to win and you have to order them to progress.
Now we gotta see brood war factions in sc2 campaigns
Aww man, I wished I got to see some Infested Terran action when I see all those Queens and burning CC
2v2s for showmatches of full races would be very cool ngl
I think 2v2 is the best format. Same race on each team but one is sc2 and the other is bw
I actually haven't heard hardly anything about Melee Mods, let alone anything positive about them.
Covering this is a huge help to me, thank you very much for the video!
My favorite part "he didn't do too stupid, he was about the same as purple .... that's me" xD
Watching this video I learned for the first time about the "triangle of a number". I'd never heard of such a thing before.
0:18 Starcraft: AllStars
5:20 Nice follow-up. "That's stupid, let me just..."
"Only an idiot would do so. Now, where are my drones?"
This man knows how to properly use comedic timing.
Something pretty funny is that SC1 Firebats are actually really strong in this mod against Zerg.
That was interesting to watch! It was so inspiring to see Grant so happily beating the bots! :D
Thanks for the video!
The SC2 AI is damn funny sometimes.
Sometimes they'll start expanding to other areas and then straight up start building up like it's a WOL mission.
Setting them lower than Elite just makes em send weak waves ranging from a flock of zerglings to a full army.
Also I forgot that they also burrow drones when their drones have nowhere to go.
As someone who almost exclusively plays vs AI in RTS, the SC2 AI is generally pretty good, and controlling AI allies is well done! There are plenty of ways to break the AI tho (they can't deal with liberators for example) and they play in a very rigid non-human way that makes it very repetitive to play against them. It feels very much like the AI has a very solid core, but didn't get updated very well with HotS/LotV, nor after balance patches.
I think AoE2:DE generally does this better. The AI is continuously updated and improved and while it has its own issues, every game feels a lot more dynamic and unique. I would've loved for Blizzard to give the AI the same amount of love.
I thought the SC1 workers mine faster because SC1 workers accelerate from zero to full instantly while SC2 workers ramp up over a second or so slowing the time to both reach the minerals and to deliver them once mined. This results in a mining rate similar to having 3 SC2 workers on each patch for each 2 SC1 workers
Been watching Lowko cast a bunch of games of this. Pretty cool, SC1 spells are busted though lmao.
I love that Broodwars Zealots have the Bombastic walk animation of Karax boy
Karax, no h
@@L3monsta Thank you for correcting me 🙂
@@AleksanderDrako no worries :)
Yellow Zerg be like: "I DIDNT HEAR NO BELL!"
Huh, I wonder what about Starcraft I zerglings makes them more durable in a Starcraft II context.
I thought the big thing that made them worse in Starcraft II was just that the better pathing made them clump up more and other units are more powerful even though the zerglings base stats was the same?
Cracklings had much more DPS in SC1.
@@momom6197 I see that but I'm wondering what goes into making it happen. Is the base attack speed higher?
The cracklings in Starcraft II also get the +50% attack speed after all.
"Sending Scout..."
Silly AI, you're Zerg! You don't have scouts!
i really enjoy these videos (4v4 coop etc) keep up the good work!!!
Alternate Title: Campaign Master Grant Bullies the AI for 30 mins straight
I remember watching a few pro players trying this mod out. It was pretty damn cool.
I just had an idea for a challenge run if you want (though you'd need to find a modder willing to do it): any of the three campaigns, but you can't actually control anything and instead have to give the AI orders like you would to AI allies (maybe adding a few extra commands if it's possible to add).
I really hope they make a few maps specifically for BW. Right now the environment is SC2, with all its QoL, I'd love to see how SC1 fairs against SC2 when you have more Min, with less gas.
I hope this means other factions will be available for multiplayer matches, Imagine Moebius or legacy of the memes ^^
I imagine other mod makers will make spin offs of this, considering how popular it is.
There is a reason why SC Broodwar zerg rules. lings 1 supply for 2 lings.. Hydralisk 1 supply. Ultralisk 4 supply. You actually feel like THE SWARM. And boy is Brood War Ultralisk fast as they should be.
god I love those classic zealots, I've always been disappointed in the way SC2 zealots just kind of wave their arms around when attacking
I watched it all and i think we will never know about the pink protoss colossus tomfoolery
surprised no defiler in first game, artosis would be happy
He definitely wouldn't enjoy the Reaver drop in the mineral line of the second game though xD
Lore acurate protoss. Fighting until the last zerg dies. No survivors
I love the AI, i play a lot with them in skirmish. I do wish there was a similair AI for playing co-op with as well that would make me really happy as i got no friends :D
When I see this it remembers me of the good old sc1 campaigns. Wouldn‘t it be fun to Take the Units from sc1 to sc2 and make a Remake of the old campaigns just with the benefits of sc2 like the better pathing, better AI and bigger command groups?
Thanks for sharing the fun with AIs! ^^
yo, i love that SC1 Zealot stabbing animation! 🤩
should do the starcraft 2 hardcore mod next. type SC2HC into the arcade map search bar & theres a bunch of maps for it, its really neat
I love playing vs the AI way more than vs people so this AI command stuff is sick
Well then, here is a mod idea: do the campaigns, but your side is only AI, and all you can do is issue AI commands (and maybe run one hero around).
I wonder if someone is going to make "Wings of Liberty but you're SC1 Terran".
I forget, have we already had SC2 Campaigns using the SC1 units? I'd looove to see this if not
I wish AI was working in Brood War too. It technicly exists and works fine in Custom games but they can't be placed in melee games which is stupid.
R.I.P. spine crawler family 🙏🙏😔😛
Shuttle Reavers! Go, go little Nausicaa Of the Valley of the Wind references!
I will play it for sure once I am back from vacation
man, the models look soooo much better than Mass Recall
I really wish you tried to infest the BW Command Center, because the BW Infested Marines are *amazing*!
Banelings wish they were BW Infested Marines. The difference in damage output is glorious.
I was kinda hoping to see the brood queens infest the command center for once
19:10: The number of match-ups is n² / 2, so 18 in this case.
I remember that AI feature, is pretty cool.
perfect comedy at it's best here thanks grant
IT WORKS WITH AI!?
I can't wait for modders to start adding it into campaign. Imagine zergs on aiur being sc1 zerg since nobody made them evolve since overmind died. Or the outdated equipment Orland would use.
The best mod. Thank you very much!
BW Zealots look sooooo cool O,O
So grant has been a cerebrate all along eh?
I tried the demo, it’s definitely unfinished but looks insane right now compared to mass recall
Any chance you play Aeon of Purification next? It's basically Moebius Mod but for Protoss.
Grant at 27:25: Ever pull workers against a Reaver?
I hope we can see Infested SC's there 😁
Huh.. I always thought SC1 creep gave increased health regen to Zerg units on it, though I noticed it did not grant the speed buff SC2 creep has.. does it not give regen either? Is SC1 creep *just* for Zerg building placement? Huh. Neat.
You can indeed infest Terran command centers (at least the BW ones)
Is it just me or SCI Siege Tank feels like having infinite range and do infinite damage
13:33
Like antennas to heaven?
hey grant, kind of a noob question but, why do you flicker your grab box on your workers at the mineral field?
A lot of people do that at the start of a game to warm up their mouse hand.
I honestly didn't know mod works with AI bots. I have heard about this mod before but I was never interested in it because I thought it was PvP only. I might give it a few skirmish games then.
Damn the bots are out in force today
Play more this mod pls. ❤❤❤
So one thing, i think BW protoss AI its not implemented yet(Terran and zerg are obviously)
If you pay attenton the pink BW protoss was kinda weird, it just used some dragoons i think but everything else was very innactive
Not quite, they do just as well as the other factions in my experience, you might've just had bad luck. I've literally gotten crushed by a tide of a million dragoons and reavers.
That was because they were told to create colossi, but are BW and thus don't have them to make. Grant made them the test case.
@@KaiserMattTygore927 @brianlance8263
I think thats exactly the issue, they do that because its a temporary solution.
And the colossi, i think it doesn't really matter. The devs thenselves said the protoss AI wasn't done yet lol
You press Alt+G like in multiplayer.
Yeah. Cool right?
probably becuase blizzard didn't make this wasn't it the Microsoft AI that learned SC2 and that resulted in this better AI?
Nope this AI was made by blizzard. It uses functions built directly into the editor
Can you order the AI to cheese ? Like a cannon rush 🤔
How to play this mod?
if blizzard ever makes a SC3 this mod is a must have staple with then SC1, SC2 and SC3 versions. is it going to be balanced? not really but that isn't the point it gives people who play SC seriously a semi casual mode and good jumping on point for people to get used to the new game. just like the co-op factions would be a must for a SC3 since it is a form of long term casual content. then you would have the balanced SC3 only 1v1 which would be the balanced mode. but even that i think could be spiced up by the side content.
what if the balanced SC3 version of a faction is the pick and mixed version from the co-op mode and SC1/SC2 and as a means of balance or to shake things up in a new season is to swap a couple of units in an out. like say protoss is too strong so the Auir immortal gets swapped with the tal'darim immortal. would totally change how things work but such changes would be very limited to try and maintain balance and understanding where things would end up.
what if you infested both a SC2 CC and BW CC, will they be different?
i hope that they both would build their respective infested terran units
anyone know how to get the mod running?
grant what do you mean cant exspand creep youve playd starcraft 1 right
He obviously meant like sc2 creep for vision. No one is building proxy hatches and creep colonies around the map to get vision
I’m sorry
Except they arent BW lings when you have SC2 pathing....
Wtf are these bots?
yeah, 7 in each game if you don't count Grant who is obviously also a bot.
Stetman got high on his Terrazine supply again