While this statement is pretty close, if shape-shift is in a pack he gets two cards out of he does get it on the wheel. It is possible that it is something you are supposed to wheel and he didn't get the opportunity. (But it does seem like it is good to have it out)
this deck really needed the scapeshift and/or depths combo to be able to actually kill the opponents. I feel like LSV still drafts and plays like he'll have time to get there eventually with whatever ham sandwich wincon he's using instead of taking actual win cons. The cube simply doesn't durdle that much anymore.
@@Anusien literally any draw seven probably would have made this deck purr. He had the setup for it but just never saw one once he got the hullbreacher. That might have just been because the person that passed him the hullbreacher did his best to cut them, potentially, but he also might have just gotten unlucky.
I feel like there was a better line at 50:00. Shifting Woodland doesn't need to tap to activate its ability, so you could tap it to play the Ignoble Hierarch, then pay 4 and activate the Woodland to become a tapped copy of Gut. Then attack with your Knight and Golos, and sacrifice the Hierarch to Gut's ability, leaving you with three lethal attackers, one of which has Menace. That way even if they have 1 removal spell they have to use it on the Skeleton. Edit: Though of course this still loses to Kolaghan's Command
The turn you played defiler to kill the dack, you could have killed the creature, fanatic taps for 4 because of the defiler, turn the shifting woodlands into a cobra, and attack dack for 2.
These combo’s that don’t win you the game right away are too much of a liability in modern vintage cube sadly. Luis just gets out-good-carded every draft.
Kinda this version cubes fault tho. Valakut, Hogak obviously almost always fail. + all the other underpowered stuff. Lets hope next version of cube will be better and more entertaining as its result.
@@SpiRit1290 I think if you want to make lands or self-mill work you need to just put the broken dredge cards in there. If it's good enough for vintage constructed, it's good enough for cube (actually don't know if it's still good enough for vintage since I don't follow the format but it was a menace back when they had the VSL going).
Have you ever thought about using the Conspiracy cards that affect the draft itself in the Vintage Cube? Or making a version of the Vintage Cube with some of those Conspiracy cards?
It must be frustrating for Luis to have to call upon the talent of a younger and more powerful Magus, but alas, the streak will not end until he appears... OOKA CHUKA OOKA CHOKA We summon the chosen one, The redeemer himself. The mean green mana dork machine... BbbKkkk
probably my favorite cards is most of the cards i listed here but out of them i really like: violent ultimatum and casualties of war. they complement cheaper 1 drops like kird ape pretty well. keeps the opponents pinned to the ground. and makes the EARFQUAKE. gorillaz deck of my own, green red black(the deck can really make the earfquake): kird ape violent ultimatum ragavan, nimble pilferer army ants casualties of war dwarven blastminer wall of roots simian spirit guide abyssal persecutor gorilla shaman sideboard: shatterstorm(vs affinity) creeping corrosion(vs affinity) red elememental blast carpet of flowers boil damping sphere(vs the grape shot combo decks, a very fast combo deck) pithing needle(vs spike feeder combos, and grindstone combos) desecration demon
Games like Exploration + Tireless Tracker show the power the deck had. It just needed The One Ring or some other method to convert mana into cards (even Tireless Tracker as a mana dump warped the game, and it's not particularly powerful).
I love reading comments before the draft cause you’ll get some that kind of convince you they know what they are talking about but then you watch the draft and realize how ridiculous it is to suggest taking the one ring over mana crypt, inti over a ferchland, a titan that wasn’t even in the pack over lumberjack. Like do these people even know how draft works lol? So many people thinking they know more and give these go awful takes. Pretty wild
It really is wild ain’t it? Like ofc there are decisions that hindsight are better, but you can’t draft like you are going to pull exactly what you pull and then glue the rest together
Maybe, but even so you can't really ever pass power in team drafts. It's too disastrous to give the opposing team a free mana crypt, even if this clearly wasn't the best mana crypt deck.
Lands without draw 7s is rough. As it stands, you have 29 mana\land synergy cards, two crucible effects and a counterspell. A lot of your cards are horribad topdecks and you don't have a way to dig eload barring surveiling from the graveyard with a crucible+knight (though at that point the engine is online and you should be winning). Bit of a rough draft, I think the deck was wide open but the best parts of the lands deck (draw sevens and tutors) being evergreen means they were either not opened or poached.
Likely a case of not wanting to pass prolly a 9/10-10/10 Mana Crypt to an opponent when you have no idea where the Bill will end up if you take the Crypt.
I'm going to comment before watching the gameplay that this seems like the perfect example of why LSV isn't winning as often as he used to: clearly prioritizing fun and entertainment value over maximizing win% with a lot of these picks. From the get go, strip mine into Inti feels stronger than strip into fetch. I think if you want to maximize win rate you should try to get your strip mine in an aggro deck if possible. There's nothing wrong with taking the more fun route, and it will make for an entertaining video, but a part of me misses the spikier LSV. With crypt and sapphire, any kind of semi-aggressive deck that puts threats on the board quickly would have probably been better than where we ended up, and I feel like that's often the case when LSV gets multiple power. In the category of "card LSV likes a lot which gets taken over card LSV loses to but rarely takes," The one that stood out the most was Oko, which we took hullbreacher over. Hullbreacher is cool when it works out, and it's a fine card (though mostly a SB card if you don't have good interactions), but my guess is just putting Oko in your green deck will win more games of cube. It's boring, but it is quite effective, and technically we could turn 1 it, but turn 2 would happen a lot. I'll report back after the games to see if my prediction holds up. I will say, I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out regardless, lands is fun. edit: well, that first game was certainly a demonstration. Opponent just played a bunch of individually powerful cards and steamrolled LSV's attempt to get a linear strategy going. Oko showed off why it's such a dumb card: LSV just didn't have any outs because it invalidated any potential combos. Golos could have been cool, but nope. Same with Dryad, excavator, and tireless tracker. edit #2: Well, hullbreacher showed why it's a dumb card too, so fair is fair. edit #3: Land Grant needs to go.
If it wasn't a team draft do you not take sapphire?....reviewing that pack..nah probably still take it.... that was some unnecessary roughness :/ looking forward to the next one.
I love watching this with power because there's nothing like it. My synergistic Johnny heart always sinks when potentially powerful cards/synergies are passed because the team format punishes not taking every piece of power you see. Kinda makes the picks less interesting sometimes.
Did LSV really start Strip Mine into Arid Mesa then proceed to pass a bunch of good white cards and never really seriously considering drafting white aggro?
P1P3 had nothing but Ramunap, the first signal is P1P4 with a solid WW card in a pack that also contains Prismatic Omen to plan to wheel. The lands deck dream was already alive, mono white aggro is going to need a better signal earlier than P4 single solid white card in pacm, P5 single decent white card in pack, P6 Ocelot as only white in pack (imo, and I know nothing). Rewatching this back, where are the "bunch of good white cards" you're talking about? It's a single middle of the road white card in every pack beginning on P4 😂
This was not the nuts lands package. Passed scapeshift for some reason, couldn’t take stage/depths, no big creatures to ramp into, no Bristly Bill, no Titania. All the lands but no way to win.
yes and no, it wasn't balanced and he got the wrong kind of power. An aspect of the deck outside of combo's is great mana but it was almost pointless seeing as he had like 1 card of every color outside of green and they weren't premium cards. Maybe he went full Landtard
@@aidanchutkan8662 Strip/waste fastbond/exploration crucible/ramunap. but yea, needed more, like titania, some wheels to go with the hullbreacher, or scapeshift
@@aidanchutkan8662 fair enough. But even without a wincon, the package ended up not seeming like it did much of anything. Ultimately, I'm not a Lands believer, and it really seems like Valakut and entourage is a stinker in this Cube. I just don't see how this competes or even interacts with generic good stuff.
@@jacobfox4379 For sure, but before the first match the team communicate and they try to figure the opponents' decks. I would expect there are limits to that
@@tornadoeye My understanding is that drafts in the server you are not allowed to communicate 'during' the draft. You have some time limits as well so you can't really rebuild the entire draft before round 1 even if everyone took perfect notes. But you can figure out some of the high priority cards. If you pass Bowmasters and then your teammate doesn't see it, that is something you could talk about before the round, but trying to figure out an entire deck takes too much time. I do think you can get a decent idea of who is playing what when everyone is an experienced drafter, but I've never taken that much time cause I think most people just want to play.
They do that with key cards, letting them know that they passed X, and if Y teammate didn't see it, Z person could have it in deck. They just don't do it with all the cards. They also take screenshots of the cards they see from match 1, letting their teammates know what they're up against.
@@7dylanmoore Yeah, they only track high priority cards that they have to pass, not entire packs, likely in part due to the time it would take in real time, and not wanting to SS every pack everyone has and reverse engineer 42/45 cards each opponent has. The missing 3 are of course the first picks that nobody else sees.
I think Chromatic Star is getting vastly undervalued in the cube. Hallowed Fountain is good, but even with a fetch I don't think it was the pick over Star. Star goes in so many decks and is always good, moreso than Fountain.
Workshop works over multiple turns, so it works best with multiple mid-range artifacts - some which may be drawn over multiple turns. For Channel to be good in a similar deck, you need to cast multiple things in a single turn, and since many of those artifacts also have colored mana, you'd not only need the mana for Channel but also for the colored mana, meaning you'd already have a lot of mana on board before Channel is basically a bad Cabal Ritual. Channel is best with a single big colorless mana sink rather than multiple small ones.
Workshop works best with medium artifacts over multiple turns, while Channel can only work on one turn. So if you have multiple medium sized cards like LSV did, you'd have to have multiple of them in hand before Channel starts being worth the deck slot. Not to mention several of his Workshop cards had colored mana as well, meaning you have to have the mana to cast Channel as well as lands in play to produce the colored mana. For example, for Chaos Defiler, you still have to pay BR, so with Channel, the cost shifts from 3BR to GGBR+Channel+1 Life. And you'd have to have 5-6 mana sources already in play if you want to play Channel and cheat out 2-3 spells, meaning it doesn't really speed you up much.
Cards like Satyr Wayfinder and Rumble I absolutely despise in cube. You're only ever running one copy of any individual card and milling one of your answers/combo pieces/threats is just a terrible feeling.
This is a bad way to look at it. If your deck has any way of using cards in the graveyard then these gain you a lot of resources. If you mill the card you need sure that sucks, but there was always the possibility you just didn’t draw it.
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If you're passing a late scapeshift in a dedicated lands deck, it's probably time to take it out of the cube
Trying to draft the Valakut deck and passing on Scapeshift was definitely a choice
It’s out of the cube now
While this statement is pretty close, if shape-shift is in a pack he gets two cards out of he does get it on the wheel. It is possible that it is something you are supposed to wheel and he didn't get the opportunity. (But it does seem like it is good to have it out)
.
Wake up, babe. LSV is back on lands.
this deck really needed the scapeshift and/or depths combo to be able to actually kill the opponents. I feel like LSV still drafts and plays like he'll have time to get there eventually with whatever ham sandwich wincon he's using instead of taking actual win cons. The cube simply doesn't durdle that much anymore.
Lmao ham sandwich wincon got me
I think he needed one more big thing. It didn’t have to be lands based; a Timetwister or a Fractured Identity or a Pest Infestation would work too.
@@Anusien literally any draw seven probably would have made this deck purr. He had the setup for it but just never saw one once he got the hullbreacher. That might have just been because the person that passed him the hullbreacher did his best to cut them, potentially, but he also might have just gotten unlucky.
@Anusien primeval titan, inferno titan, etc. But let's take land grant and lumberjack ...
I still refuse to belive that Lumberjack is better then some of the other picks here.
Strip, Crucible and Fastbond are my favorite 3 cards to see in a thumbnail!
With Mox Sapphire in the background!
My eyes almost popped out of my head when I saw the fastbond
I feel like there was a better line at 50:00. Shifting Woodland doesn't need to tap to activate its ability, so you could tap it to play the Ignoble Hierarch, then pay 4 and activate the Woodland to become a tapped copy of Gut. Then attack with your Knight and Golos, and sacrifice the Hierarch to Gut's ability, leaving you with three lethal attackers, one of which has Menace. That way even if they have 1 removal spell they have to use it on the Skeleton.
Edit: Though of course this still loses to Kolaghan's Command
Lands is definitely one of my favorite archetypes, and favorite card type. Excited for this one!
I really thought you should have taken Primeval Titan over the triome land
The turn you played defiler to kill the dack, you could have killed the creature, fanatic taps for 4 because of the defiler, turn the shifting woodlands into a cobra, and attack dack for 2.
These combo’s that don’t win you the game right away are too much of a liability in modern vintage cube sadly. Luis just gets out-good-carded every draft.
Kinda this version cubes fault tho. Valakut, Hogak obviously almost always fail. + all the other underpowered stuff. Lets hope next version of cube will be better and more entertaining as its result.
@@SpiRit1290 I think if you want to make lands or self-mill work you need to just put the broken dredge cards in there. If it's good enough for vintage constructed, it's good enough for cube (actually don't know if it's still good enough for vintage since I don't follow the format but it was a menace back when they had the VSL going).
Have you ever thought about using the Conspiracy cards that affect the draft itself in the Vintage Cube? Or making a version of the Vintage Cube with some of those Conspiracy cards?
Those cards are not on magic online iirc. Conspiracy and Conspiracy: Take the Crown were never released in full on magic online
It must be frustrating for Luis to have to call upon the talent of a younger and more powerful Magus, but alas, the streak will not end until he appears...
OOKA CHUKA OOKA CHOKA
We summon the chosen one, The redeemer himself. The mean green mana dork machine... BbbKkkk
I hear he was the winner of several 64 player drafts
probably my favorite cards is most of the cards i listed here but out of them i really like: violent ultimatum and casualties of war. they complement cheaper 1 drops like kird ape pretty well. keeps the opponents pinned to the ground. and makes the EARFQUAKE.
gorillaz deck of my own, green red black(the deck can really make the earfquake):
kird ape
violent ultimatum
ragavan, nimble pilferer
army ants
casualties of war
dwarven blastminer
wall of roots
simian spirit guide
abyssal persecutor
gorilla shaman
sideboard:
shatterstorm(vs affinity)
creeping corrosion(vs affinity)
red elememental blast
carpet of flowers
boil
damping sphere(vs the grape shot combo decks, a very fast combo deck)
pithing needle(vs spike feeder combos, and grindstone combos)
desecration demon
>Plays effectively 20 lands
>Floods out
i feel like he usually runs a land or two too many in vintage cube, but I say that knowing he's far better at this than I am.
@@anthonyjs8048 I think the land grant was just a step too far, would have been so much better as any other spell
He needed one more big payoff for having lots of mana, but he didn’t manage to draft one.
Games like Exploration + Tireless Tracker show the power the deck had. It just needed The One Ring or some other method to convert mana into cards (even Tireless Tracker as a mana dump warped the game, and it's not particularly powerful).
Waiting for that Valakut has me on the edge of my seat. Crossing my fingers.
I love reading comments before the draft cause you’ll get some that kind of convince you they know what they are talking about but then you watch the draft and realize how ridiculous it is to suggest taking the one ring over mana crypt, inti over a ferchland, a titan that wasn’t even in the pack over lumberjack. Like do these people even know how draft works lol? So many people thinking they know more and give these go awful takes. Pretty wild
It really is wild ain’t it? Like ofc there are decisions that hindsight are better, but you can’t draft like you are going to pull exactly what you pull and then glue the rest together
Crazy to see ponder and strictly better ponder in the same pack
At 10:11? What card would you say is "strictly better Ponder"?
i think ring was arguably better than mana crypt in this deck
Maybe, but even so you can't really ever pass power in team drafts. It's too disastrous to give the opposing team a free mana crypt, even if this clearly wasn't the best mana crypt deck.
Lands without draw 7s is rough. As it stands, you have 29 mana\land synergy cards, two crucible effects and a counterspell. A lot of your cards are horribad topdecks and you don't have a way to dig
eload barring surveiling from the graveyard with a crucible+knight (though at that point the engine is online and you should be winning). Bit of a rough draft, I think the deck was wide open but the best parts of the lands deck (draw sevens and tutors) being evergreen means they were either not opened or poached.
some dece land synergies but few major threats in this lands deck. shame we didn't see a draw 7 or two for those Fast Bond and Hullbreacher cards.
I thought we were back with the Ws... But the hits keep on coming
ahhh yes, the classical "optimising stripmine" draft
Didnt even acknowledge the Bristly Bill
Likely a case of not wanting to pass prolly a 9/10-10/10 Mana Crypt to an opponent when you have no idea where the Bill will end up if you take the Crypt.
Anyone keeping track of LSV’s losing streak?
4v4 vintage cube on lands, everything is right with the world!
Love Lands!
I feel like Fire Covenant taunts LSV. It always wrecks him and yet it’s always in his packs to take and he never takes it.
I'm going to comment before watching the gameplay that this seems like the perfect example of why LSV isn't winning as often as he used to: clearly prioritizing fun and entertainment value over maximizing win% with a lot of these picks. From the get go, strip mine into Inti feels stronger than strip into fetch. I think if you want to maximize win rate you should try to get your strip mine in an aggro deck if possible. There's nothing wrong with taking the more fun route, and it will make for an entertaining video, but a part of me misses the spikier LSV. With crypt and sapphire, any kind of semi-aggressive deck that puts threats on the board quickly would have probably been better than where we ended up, and I feel like that's often the case when LSV gets multiple power.
In the category of "card LSV likes a lot which gets taken over card LSV loses to but rarely takes," The one that stood out the most was Oko, which we took hullbreacher over. Hullbreacher is cool when it works out, and it's a fine card (though mostly a SB card if you don't have good interactions), but my guess is just putting Oko in your green deck will win more games of cube. It's boring, but it is quite effective, and technically we could turn 1 it, but turn 2 would happen a lot.
I'll report back after the games to see if my prediction holds up. I will say, I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out regardless, lands is fun.
edit: well, that first game was certainly a demonstration. Opponent just played a bunch of individually powerful cards and steamrolled LSV's attempt to get a linear strategy going. Oko showed off why it's such a dumb card: LSV just didn't have any outs because it invalidated any potential combos. Golos could have been cool, but nope. Same with Dryad, excavator, and tireless tracker.
edit #2: Well, hullbreacher showed why it's a dumb card too, so fair is fair.
edit #3: Land Grant needs to go.
Fun deck, sad we didn't get the Ws to go with it.
LSV putting all mana and no win cons in the deck wondering why he draws lands
2:45 Joolz, Tireless Pomeranian
Pretty much ended up with a bad lands deck because we didn't have any draw-7's.
Posting before watching. That thumbnail is HORRIFYING!
If it wasn't a team draft do you not take sapphire?....reviewing that pack..nah probably still take it.... that was some unnecessary roughness :/ looking forward to the next one.
I love watching this with power because there's nothing like it. My synergistic Johnny heart always sinks when potentially powerful cards/synergies are passed because the team format punishes not taking every piece of power you see. Kinda makes the picks less interesting sometimes.
Yeah, I had to look back, but what card would you possibly take for a Lands deck that is better than a Mox? Misty Rainforest?
Day 783 of losing with sweet decks
Such a cool deck but it needs some top end. Passed two titans, Scapeshift, and Nissa.
Did LSV really start Strip Mine into Arid Mesa then proceed to pass a bunch of good white cards and never really seriously considering drafting white aggro?
Was thinking that too. But lets be honest this is way more fun
Even had he stuck with lands theme, I still think Ocelot Pride is the pick over Golos.
He was planning to wheel Crucible
P1P3 had nothing but Ramunap, the first signal is P1P4 with a solid WW card in a pack that also contains Prismatic Omen to plan to wheel. The lands deck dream was already alive, mono white aggro is going to need a better signal earlier than P4 single solid white card in pacm, P5 single decent white card in pack, P6 Ocelot as only white in pack (imo, and I know nothing).
Rewatching this back, where are the "bunch of good white cards" you're talking about? It's a single middle of the road white card in every pack beginning on P4 😂
@@glmcg132fun is losing every match? Mmmmk
thank god it's not a poopy bloomburrow video
You Love 2 See it....
video seems blurrier than normal
C'mon youtube! You're 4 seconds late, geez.
If this draft fails, it might be time to reconsider the Lands package... This seems like the nuts Lands draft...excited to see how it turns out.
Really needed wheels and some high CMC cards to pay off for having lands. Did have some combos but never really got them going.
This was not the nuts lands package. Passed scapeshift for some reason, couldn’t take stage/depths, no big creatures to ramp into, no Bristly Bill, no Titania. All the lands but no way to win.
yes and no, it wasn't balanced and he got the wrong kind of power.
An aspect of the deck outside of combo's is great mana but it was almost pointless seeing as he had like 1 card of every color outside of green and they weren't premium cards.
Maybe he went full Landtard
@@aidanchutkan8662 Strip/waste fastbond/exploration crucible/ramunap. but yea, needed more, like titania, some wheels to go with the hullbreacher, or scapeshift
@@aidanchutkan8662 fair enough. But even without a wincon, the package ended up not seeming like it did much of anything.
Ultimately, I'm not a Lands believer, and it really seems like Valakut and entourage is a stinker in this Cube.
I just don't see how this competes or even interacts with generic good stuff.
Looks like you’re still running cold . I’m sorry
in a deck with this much mana and such a slow game plan, is it ever the one ring over crypt ?
He had a Lumberjack, Cobra, and Exploration at P2P1.
No shot you hand your opponent's team power in that spot.
Are there any rules regarding keeping track of cards in the draft? In theory you could know almost exactly what cards every opponent is playing
Trying to figure out who took which cards and responding to that information is one of the major skill tests in drafting.
@@jacobfox4379 For sure, but before the first match the team communicate and they try to figure the opponents' decks. I would expect there are limits to that
@@tornadoeye My understanding is that drafts in the server you are not allowed to communicate 'during' the draft. You have some time limits as well so you can't really rebuild the entire draft before round 1 even if everyone took perfect notes. But you can figure out some of the high priority cards.
If you pass Bowmasters and then your teammate doesn't see it, that is something you could talk about before the round, but trying to figure out an entire deck takes too much time. I do think you can get a decent idea of who is playing what when everyone is an experienced drafter, but I've never taken that much time cause I think most people just want to play.
They do that with key cards, letting them know that they passed X, and if Y teammate didn't see it, Z person could have it in deck. They just don't do it with all the cards. They also take screenshots of the cards they see from match 1, letting their teammates know what they're up against.
@@7dylanmoore Yeah, they only track high priority cards that they have to pass, not entire packs, likely in part due to the time it would take in real time, and not wanting to SS every pack everyone has and reverse engineer 42/45 cards each opponent has. The missing 3 are of course the first picks that nobody else sees.
I think Chromatic Star is getting vastly undervalued in the cube. Hallowed Fountain is good, but even with a fetch I don't think it was the pick over Star. Star goes in so many decks and is always good, moreso than Fountain.
Day 7 of the people(me) demanding more BK(winner of MULTIPLE 64 PLAYER CUBE DRAFTS)
You went from one pack saying: we’re almost a workshop deck - to: we’re not a channel deck. How do you figure that logic?
Workshop works over multiple turns, so it works best with multiple mid-range artifacts - some which may be drawn over multiple turns.
For Channel to be good in a similar deck, you need to cast multiple things in a single turn, and since many of those artifacts also have colored mana, you'd not only need the mana for Channel but also for the colored mana, meaning you'd already have a lot of mana on board before Channel is basically a bad Cabal Ritual.
Channel is best with a single big colorless mana sink rather than multiple small ones.
Workshop works best with medium artifacts over multiple turns, while Channel can only work on one turn. So if you have multiple medium sized cards like LSV did, you'd have to have multiple of them in hand before Channel starts being worth the deck slot. Not to mention several of his Workshop cards had colored mana as well, meaning you have to have the mana to cast Channel as well as lands in play to produce the colored mana. For example, for Chaos Defiler, you still have to pay BR, so with Channel, the cost shifts from 3BR to GGBR+Channel+1 Life. And you'd have to have 5-6 mana sources already in play if you want to play Channel and cheat out 2-3 spells, meaning it doesn't really speed you up much.
First
you weren't first
Cards like Satyr Wayfinder and Rumble I absolutely despise in cube. You're only ever running one copy of any individual card and milling one of your answers/combo pieces/threats is just a terrible feeling.
This is a bad way to look at it. If your deck has any way of using cards in the graveyard then these gain you a lot of resources. If you mill the card you need sure that sucks, but there was always the possibility you just didn’t draw it.
@@aidanchutkan8662 I know the synergy it can have, but i don't like it