Best slingshot hunting bands/tapers/ammo?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ก.ย. 2022
- In this video I test what I think the best hunting bands and ammo are in ballistic gel to see what the penetration is like at hunting speeds. I do some real science and get heaps of useful data.
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It’s worth mentioning that my estimates for speed are for comparison only.
My method for estimating speed is actually only finding the average speed of the ball from rest to the moment it leaves the forks. Depending on whether acceleration is linear (which I doubt) the actual ‘muzzle velocity’ (fork velocity?) could be up to 50% higher.
A word of advice from someone who has been going through the same process of trying/testing out the power, penetration and reliability of the catapult ammo:
Shot PLACEMENT is KING!
Ditch all of the big diameter balls and rubber bands above .65mm and start over with 6,7 and 8mm ball bearings and .5, .55, .6 or .65 bands!
Use 16-10 to 20-10 tapers and other stuff in between and you should get 400fps, 370fps and 300/320fps with 6mm, 7mm and 8mm balls using a short draw.
Any bird or small critter shot in the head will be dead with any of those balls travelling at those speeds!
You will see a 50 to 80 percent increase in accuracy over using the big lead shot as the draw weight of the bands will be reduced.
Once again remember that the shot placement trumps raw power and the only way to achieve higher accuracy is to reduce the draw weight=use thinner bands and thinner tapers combined with using appropriate weight balls=smaller and lighter and lots of practice(you can practice for longer with a lighter set up).
If available always use lead balls that have the same weight as the steel balls matched with a particular band set because of the higher sectional density of the lead balls will result in a flatter trajectory and a deeper penetration.
Best bands in my experience are Precise,GZK yellow and BSB white in .6 and .65 thickness; if pushed to choose only one band it will be BSB white as it is a bit smoother to draw than the other two but the other two make a bit more power.
I agree with your summation in principle. And sure, shooting birds with 8mm it should be a piece of cake to crack their skull from rpetty much any angle. However, for rabbits, the area that allows a kill shot with 8mm is relatively small.
However, you kan kill (or at least KO) a rabbit with lead on any part of its head. My kill in my rabbit hunting video was with a shot to the jaw with 9mm lead. I don't know if the rabbit was dead on the spot, but it went down instantly and for long enough for me to wander over and break its neck. That would not have happened with 8mm steel.
The thing I am finding with hunting is there is rarely a 'perfect' shot.
@@theferalphilosopher-huntin1372 Please give it a try and you’ll see for yourself! I promise you that I am not lying!
What do you have to lose?!
If you haven’t been watching Catapult Carnage channel go ahead and watch it now and you will see that in the early videos he was using heavy ammo but has switched to the lighter one as well!
A shot to the head is a killer and if people can shoot pigeons in the head it should be easier for you to shoot rabbits in the head.
Superb..
I just found your channel. Thank you. The comments are as thoughtful as well and your presentation of the information/data.
I particularly love that you have both 'tuned' the bands and 'matched' the bands and ammo in these tests/demonstrations.
I find presenting the science on a board with the way you put the information into layman's term to be helpful. Your video skills were just a fantastic bonus.
Stay feral, friend.
Thank you for taking time to do this. Really great information.🙏👊
Interesting and love the sling shots. I like how you break it down with the energy of moving object (kinetic energy) speed and weight of projectile. 👍
In depth, good stuff man.
Much appreciated work done by you sir, keep it up....Very Nice
A superb analysis…this vid should required viewing for all starting out. Like many I started on short draw tubes,erroneously equating heavy draw with power.
I discovered Torsten’s channel many years ago,took the red pill,switched to butterfly tapered flats and didn’t look back.
Thanks very much, appreciated. Helped me learn about bands ammo etc😊
It's a good test very few are interested in the ft/lb it's mostly FPS. From the testing in have done there a power curve for a particular setup didn't graph it, if you haven't filmed it yet I would suggest running all the ammo types through each setup some thinner stuff still has power it's unfortunately not as simple as just thinkness.
Momentum transfer will be very interesting fancy clobbering a leg of lamb.
Fantastic mate, love this! 👍
Thank you 😊 it was a lot of fun to do
I find .375 lead ie 9.5 mm to give low surface drag with acceptable trajectory and excellent penetration 👍
Very interesting to see this scientifically done. I always imagined that lead balls being softer ( and more prone to deform) would have less penetration....anyhow jolly good show old chap.
🤣🎩 Quite so old bean! 🎩
My prediction for the ballistic pendulum is that the deformation of lead allows greater energy transfer. Steel will ricochet, thus taking energy with it as it bounces. The deformation of lead still takes energy away, but less as it prevents a ricochet.
@@theferalphilosopher-huntin1372analisi superba amici mio ❤
Hello, what do you recommend for the ball of 12mm lead 10 grams and the distance from the mouth elbow to the fork is 75cm using gzk yellow green band 1mm and gzk yellow 1.2mm and Sheshou 1mm and 1.2mm and theraband gold
I would be interested in marbles being fired from a catapult/slingshot and what speed and damage can be reached ? . I have used them in the past with spear gun rubber but it was a very heavy draw weight and hard to keep on target . But flew well with a heavy hitting power . Like you said in the vidio as long as you can hit the target .
Nice work I look forward to next instalment .
You are missing some important factors.
With lighter ammunition, the weight of the pouch and bands becomes significant in speed and wasted energy. The band's wasted energy increases from fork to pouch, and that is why tapers work so well.
The smaller the shot, the flatter the initial trajectory, but the faster the drop at distance and the more wind deflection. The larger the shot, the opposite is true.
The denser the shot, the better the ballistics are, especially at distance. Because of the smaller diameter for the same weight, you do have to be a tiny bit more precise and your missed shots will be dangerous farther.
Harder shot like steel is best for target practice for its lack of deformation and reusability. Softer shot like lead is better for hunting as it imparts shock/energy faster as it deforms.
Clay shot is great after initial target practice and walking woods shooting at leaves, tree knots, rocks, etc. to perfect range estimation, and technique shooting at odd angles and positions -- nontoxic, cheap, and less dangerous particularly at distance.
Hm, I have never shot clay. I just use steel in the woods because it will rust away. How do you find the accuracy of clay?
@@theferalphilosopher-huntin1372
Steel is environmentally friendly, but relatively expensive. Clay is accurate, but low density means relatively poor ballistically. So short range, and mainly of use for beginning hunters for practicing shooting in the woods, developing range judgement, awareness of brush in the way, and shooting positions. Of course, when transitioning to steel, target work is necessary to learn the different ballistics and different feel.
Great video! Are 1mm bands really necessary? I think 0.7mm bands should be enough even for serious hunting?
Very cool. I shoot both the Monster and Demon with .8 mm using 11 m steel and a 30-25 taper.I’ve been practicing at 20-25 meters. With the Monster I’m very accurate and find no drop in the ball. I shoot a short draw. After looking at your study I think I’m going to try 8.5-9 mm and taper the bands a bit more. Thanks again.
Awesome bro! 25m is a significant distance 😁 I had long draw in mind when I designed the monster because it’s got such a wide fork gap. You hunted anything yet?
@@theferalphilosopher-huntin1372 I’ve not gone hunting yet. I live in the hottest part of the U.S.. Next month will be tolerable. There’s plenty of Jack Rabbits I’ll probably start with. I’ll keep you posted. Love both frames a lot.
Thank you very much for the detailed analysis. This is very helpful!
I understand the point very well, but for me those data are just numbers and I don't have any experiences in hunting whith those rubber bands/ammo.
In my country it is also forbidden to go in the outside and kill rabbits/birds/pingeon etc. Even shooting at them will cost you a lot of money.
So according to your expierences is it rather possible to kill a rabbit or a pheasant with a rubber band of: 20/10 1.5mm thickness and 21mm active length?
More importantly: at what distance is it possible to kill them?
I know that the answers for those questions can only be answered after trying it by myself. But maybe you have some experiences in hunting with similar circumstances.
Thank you very much for your efforts :).
I’m estimating my speed with calculation and validate with aluminium can perforation. I notice that my max draw weight 4kg at 0.8m, dropped to 2kg at 1.2m when using 8mm steel, some 10% increases switching to 9.5mm steel.
Kinda was wondering what the exact mass or grams of the ammo is possibly a cronograph if possible and find the exact amount of energy.
I think the 9mm lead and 10mm steel is from the small diameter allowing more penetration. If you had lead plated with copper or steel and a small diameter probably would make the penetration results.
You never continued this test? Admittedly I’m brand new with slingshots, though I have plenty of experience with firearms, and recurve bows, but I didn’t think there was any, or significant penetration when hunting. Isn’t it more about blunt force shock? So I’d love to see the pendulum measuring force, and also your observations on ballistic performance, ie does projectile drop become a bigger problem, amd at what point.
One other gel test I would be fascinated to see is split shot like small sinkers just a knife cut in the lead, taofladermaus did a test on some and it worked for them. Could make a big difference on impact.
Seen on other videos clear tape on gel can make it easier to see through.
I'll keep that in mind next time I do a ballistic gel test, Though I think I'll have to get a hacksaw out for the larger lead balls.
@@theferalphilosopher-huntin1372 It's might be a bad idea for accuracy considering what can happen to cricket balls.
Pretty cool, what is your draw length out of interest?
It’s listed In the result table beside the ammo. 1080mm for long draw and 890 for short draw.
Brilliant 🇯🇲
Great video and test Daniel! Like you approach with the different bands which evened up the speeds. The pendulum test soon cool, with the gel you'll probably get the full transfer of energy but I wonder if you tried also with a hard or semi hard pendulum measurements would go? I'm thinking about how steel ricochet so much and maybe retains/absorbs some of the energy and bounces of really hard targets whereas lead doesn't bounce and all goes into the target. Don't know if there is anything scientific in the ricochet factor that would affect energy. (Jude)
Very insightful :) Yes, the ricochet will prevent the full energy of the shot from transferring into the pendulum. Similarly with the lead, some of the energy will be used up in the deformation of the shot. So either way there will not be perfect transfer of energy (obviously), however, I suspect that the lead will transfer most.
I was considering what to cover the face of the pendulum with. Perhaps a couple of layers of leather over thin metal (aluminium?) would simulate skin and skull reasonably well?
@@theferalphilosopher-huntin1372 Good thinking! Yeah, talking theoreticaly, layers of feathers are tough and add a lot of resistance. With air rifles .177 is supposedly preferred for birds due to the feathers and .22 for rabbits and things with fur as less resistance.
@@GiveItAShot_SlingshotsNFishing Huh. That's interesting. So its to do with the narrower slug fitting between the feathers better instead of being bounced off? Its funny to think that a feather pillow could stop an air rifle.
From experience, feathers are no protection from a 9mm lead ball :D
Lead being more dense than steel creates a smaller path of friction to slow the projectile.
Your comment gave me the idea of doing another ballistic gel test but with all the ammo going exactly the same seed. Thanks :)
Correct lead has higher sectional density, and depending on the relative diameter 11mm steel vs 10mm lead also more momentum.
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I am intrigued with your Ninja92. Visited your Etsy shop and found no products available. Any update on restock or new additions? Thx. 👍
Hey bro. Just realised that the listing expired so it is now renewed and should be visible on Etsy. I got a bunch of frames in this week 😈
@@theferalphilosopher-huntin1372 Great! I'll check them out soon. 👍
I mean sure lead is going trough better as it has same mass and speed while being smaller ammo so easier to penetrate. But if aiming for shock damage as well better to use steel. As it knocks, let's say rabbit, while penetrating. I assume this, quite sure, as an airgunner and I know how pellet shape and size and shape matters. I have some rather flat hunting pellets feom H&M that expand and do shock damage while same brand has oval tip, Field target pellets, that really penetrare. One is for feathers one for fur.. all in thank u so much for a video as I will stick to 10mm steel anyway, not into lead as I can get it into my organism but when it comes to kills - both will kill, 10mm S or 9mm L
You are right. I also switched to steel ammo now mainly so I’m not littering lead all over the countryside. At least I know that the steel will rust eventually.
Don't forget that larger diameter will slow faster as well. Need a speed measurement from closer to the target.
Not if the balls/spheres have the same density/material. The opposite is true.
Using the same bands, the larger shot starts slower, but will have less air per unit of weight.
Could you give me some advice, I have 4.5mm steel balls, which band you recommend for this type of ammunition. Slingshot is a WASP Enzo
Thickness: 0.45, 0.50, 0.55, or?
Thanks
Sorry bro, I never shot 4.5mm. But 0.55 would shoot 8mm kind of okay, so my guess is that you could get away with the thin stuff.
@@theferalphilosopher-huntin1372 I will test if 0.55 works, I also think so. Thanks for the answer 👍
@@Imagewalk I advise you to buy 8 mm lead buckshot or steel balls. They are much more pleasant to shoot.
Energy transfer wise you might also want to consider is over penetration deer bullets aren't good for varmints, your not trying to kill the rabbit behind the first one, so a ballistic pendulum around the correct thickness of your intended target with something like a bundle of bamboo skewers inside to simulate some thin bones.
It that situation the larger diameter of 11mm steel might cause more momentum transfer than a 10 or 9 lead due to less penetration.
Interesting thought. I never considered the diameter. My hypothesis is that the deformation of the lead will transfer more KE than the steel which will ricochet.
But yeah, the ballistic pendulum should give a much better indication of lethality
@@theferalphilosopher-huntin1372 Interested to see your further testing, another thought is a lot of the air rifle testing is done in clay as it preserves the cavity and can be cut open, so you could try free swinging clay block.
Think once your up around 11ftld small game is done with reasonable shot placement, don't believe in 8mm steel myself.
Dude how did you make that balistic gel
It is just cooking gelatine. You want the stuff without any additives, and to make it pretty concentrated. Find some instructions that explain how to bloom the gelatine or you will never get it all dissolved in such a small amount of water.
great
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I can’t give away a Demon I’m afraid, but it haven’t done the prize draw for the Monster yet so 🤞 😊
@@theferalphilosopher-huntin1372 how to buy that?
@@BasaysayTv I have my items listed in my Etsy shop. Feral Slingshots.
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Why does it seem that nobody uses the wrist brace styles? They're much easier to shoot so it never made sense to me I guess. Seems like there should be more of the better slingshots with folding wrist braces
Slingshot choice is pretty personal, but if you have a look at the competitions you won’t see many of the wrist brace style.
Wrist brace is to compensate for overpowered bands. For accuracy it’s best to just shoot ammo and bands you can handle.
@@theferalphilosopher-huntin1372 if you have problems with your wrist it makes it possible to shoot all day comfortably because the pull arm doesn't affect your wrist. It's also much more comfortable anyway and easier to stabilize your aim. I see plenty of them but more of them are with the round bands and not many options for a flat bands is all I was saying. Not sure why there's not very many options for flatband styles. I guess it does make it to where it won't fit in a pocket very easy though if you're carrying it around so I guess that's a pretty big negative.
What
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1080mm draw !!! what are you, an 8 foot giant ???
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