I've been away from Trainz a-year-and-a-half, playing its chief rival instead. However, I recently returned, upon buying the new, vastly updated version of Healesville. By coincidence, I downloaded (via download station) what I assume is the latest version of your Big Build. (I had Small Build installed previously.) My version of Trainz 2019 is standard, not platinum. The build is 14863. After watching this video, I fired up Trainz (via Steam) selected Big Build, and chose the Perran Sands ride-along session. I notice that it has "!" indication. Filtering for faults shows four things: SetOneJunction, a loco, a tender, and the session itself. I didn't think to look for missing items. I watched the session some minutes, longer than the portion you show here. It ran very smoothly for me. Well, as smoothly as can be expected on a now somewhat dated computer. I don't know that this is any help to you, but figure I ought to mention it.
Cheers for the feedback. The Plat and Standard versions are basically the same. There's a few more build tools on the Plat version but other than that there's really no difference. The Big build route on the download station is a fairly old version. There's a newer version on my site and I think some of the error messages you see are because depreciated assets. I've updated assets various times since then. Other than the errors you saw its good to know the session ran okay. Ive looked up your build number and pretty sure it's a Steam version but not 100% sure how this tallies to the game when bought directly. I think it's the same as my 114800 build but there might be differences which allows you to load it. Theres only 2 mentions of the build number on the forum so its difficult to 100% know. What I might do is test this earlier version on my game to see how it loads. If it loads it could mean the issue is something that has been added since then. The route is Big though so it's like finding a needle in a haystack.
SP4 seems to have had a very rocky reception based on the extremely long thread on the Trainz forum. So many problems have been reported, including 'Drive To' and 'Navigate To' commands. So much so that they gave a link so that users could revert to SP3. There is now an SP5 Beta available. I wouldn't like to say whether this would help or not, but it may help. One thing I learnt a long time ago was never to trust any of the updates because they virtually always broke something or other. The results is that I now download each update as a new Version, thereby keeping the older version intact . I have been doing this for TRS19, TANE and I still have the last two updates to TS12. I even have earlier versions but these are archived. Admittedly it does take up a lot of disk space but it at least I can go back and see when it got broken, or when an asset disappeared into the void. It may be worth ploughing your way through the Forum thread for any clues, reverting to SP3, or trying the SP5 beta. Unfortunately, I can think of anything specific except that missing buildings may be due to them having been packaged in a DLC and not (yet) updated on the DLS. Mike
Thanks for your reply Mike. Do you have a link to the thread or their link to revert back please? I went on the forum yesterday after discovering the issues, saw some threads but didn't see that. Don't worry if you don't as I'll be searching again. The biggest issue I have is that I provide this as a download and (for the small amount of people) I try to keep it updated to the latest version and that's the only reason I updated the game. I do have multiple data folders for previous versions of the route but the latest game version refuses to read any of them. My backups don't exist according to it. My standard version of the game reads them fine. What you say about drive to and navigate to correlates to what I see. Porting the route back to a previous version does seem to remove these commands so they might well have been updated. There's no obvious asset the causes the issue. Obvious things like the track I checked with no difference. And the fact that if I import the route file directly from my standard SP2 install, the route file works fine until I make a save to the session file. So.. saving the route file by itself is fine but if the route file is saved along side the session file, it suddenly has issues. I was discussing this elsewhere and the real issues are that they are desperately trying to update the game but also wish to keep the backward compatibility and the both just aren't compatible. It's fully understandable why they wish to but at some point for the good of the game they will need to pull the plug
Fun fact: backwards compatibility has already been broken with TS2009 and TS12, yet oddly enough, 2006 assets work in both 2009 and (apparently) 2012 versions.
I did turn on debugging but it didn't seem to do anything. Theres no on screen messages nor any files created that I could find. I did more testing and have written a blog entrey here th-cam.com/users/postUgkxw5khJkmpjZyYvvXUmurQ8-13tNk83HdB Essentially the trains seems to be causing some if not all the issues. Remove them and the FPS returns to something normal and as you add them back the fps steadily drops. My guess now is that anything that requires a script causes the issue. There is a script file in the route foder but it cannot be opened without special software. At this point I'm at a dead end.
Just trying the DLS 1.2 version of TBB on Trainz 22 SP3 and it seems to be working okay on my end. I tried downloading the 1.3 version from the site but the stupid captcha wouldn't let me make an account...
Theres major changes between the site and dls versions. The original ideas was to get the site version up to a point that I'm happy with and them to replace the DLS version with it. But then they updated the game and it broke. Knowing the version on the DLS still worked I opted just to leave it as is. To get a semi-working route file working again on the site I needed to strip out a lot of stuff. I never really worked out what caused it. Removing the locos didn't correct it (although some locos did have issues after the update which had FPS impacts) so it was something else. I remember looking at anything with a script as these were the most likely culprits. The final route revision on the site will work but if you install any of the sessions from the site the route will break and the only way to fix that will be to remove the session and route and re-install the route again. It was not possible to fix the sessions and so I don't recommend ever downloading them. Its a shame but it's been a couple of years now and I've moved on. I remember being annoyed that they did a game braking update mid term of 19 and thought they should have waited to the next full version of the game but the truth is the real issue is that most of the UK based assets are really really old. There are a few new UK themed assets but to build a UK route you have to use assets up to 10yrs old and this causes issues. The game has to keep being updated to stay relevant and this will mean increasingly the older assets will become obsolete. And as theres currently not many people creating new UK assets it means building UK based layouts without using DLC assets which I've tried to stay clear of will become increasing difficult.
At this point, you might want to acquire a copy of an earlier version of Trainz (not T:ANE or TS12; an EVEN EARLIER VERSION like Trainz Railroad Simulator 2006 or maybe Trainz 2009: Route Builder Edition).
I think there're likely multiple reasons. Assets on the map that might contributing and even commands & rules that have been downloaded that perhaps are now out of date. The route started out on TANE and then got upgraded to 19. It likely has assets that are just out of date.
@@bluewizard I think the main issue is them forcing the backwards compatible of alot of their older assets. They update the game mechanics with each version but then hamper it but just letting out dated content get used. There some stuff that dates right back to 09
You're preaching the the converted here. I've said the same thing myself many many times. They won't change this though as they are scared they won't have any content for their game. Transport Fever has the best way to do it. Release a new game, provide the docs on how to upgrade the user made asset from the previous game to the newest version and then get better FPS because they don't have the backwards compat. They have thousand upon thousands of mods so not adding in backwards compatibility isn't hurting them at all. Nor would it Trainz.
Unlikely. The route file might but the sessions no. I've not tested it on 22 but 22 seems to be an accumtive update to 19 so most things that work on the last update of 19 should work on early versions of 22 and things that don't won't. After this video I did manage to update the route file to mostly work. It's missing stuff but the FPS is okay. The session files bork this update though and after installed the route no longer works even if loaded without a session file so if you do try the route and it works don't try the session files.
Did you download the route from download station? If so there's a far newer version in my website. Head to bluewizard.uk, sign up for a free account and go to the downloads page. This version is up to date
Importing is very easy. Out cycling right now so can't explain in depth but all you need to do is download the file and use the import option on the download station window. I'm fairly sure if you find the video in the playlist where I say it's ready to download I'll show you how there
It is mentioned in the video that downgrading to ts2019 sp3 was the recommended option due to framerates, I bought the game a couple days ago and am wondering how this gets done?
I have two installs. An sp4 and an sp2. Sp4 for this route is broken. Sp3 worked fine but the performance wasnt as good as sp2. So for me sp2 gives the best performance out off all them However.. unless you have the full download/ install file for a previous version there's no way that I know of to downgrade. They don't openly provide links to previous versions so its unlikely you will find one. You could ask support but it takes a few days to get a response and I'm not sure if they would provide it. It doesn't hurt to ask
Ah yes Trainz and yet again another "Update"...... all the assets that vanish and low FPS is just a "feature" i think as the community has memed. Why I have held firmly to TANE for now. I remember SP2 for TANE and one of my earliest routes wouldn't even allow me to build on it without assets deleting themselves in between saves. I really think they need to Iron out how to truly do updates to the game that doesn't break everything every time to push it out to the community...
Firstly I would remove backward compatibility from Trainz. Trainz 19 would work with assets designed for Trainz 19 and thats it. I would then provide tools for users that create mods to help them update their assets to Trainz 19. The less code the game has the better it would run. Next I would look how the update process is implemented. I look at this from afar so could be completely wrong how I interpret their methods but as far as I can see they come up with an idea then add it. They add a few of these changes together and call it a service pack and give that a build number. Once they get up to a certain build number they say thats it for this version of the game, the next build will be a totally new game. Trainz 22 seems to be the same as Trainz 19 with higher build number. For me Trainz 19 and 22 should be separate. We pay for a new game so why should we get 19 dressed up in new colours. The game should be built from scratch and not a simple update that could have been placed in 19. Tane, 19 & 22 will all share the same game engine but I feel that should be the extent of their connection. Each one should be programmed individually. But this is a company and companies need to make money. Doing it the way they do now is likely the most efficient way for them so I don't think they will change their methods.
Sorry buddy, the straight answer is I don't know. Me getting sick has straight buggered up quite a few plans. The live stream needed to happened straight after as the new channel audience was still here. Apart from a couple of you, most now aren't. The idea was simple... Get lots of people to participate and try to do what I did in 38 episodes in 1 night. From wood to refined oil in one night. Could it be done? But only 10 people joined the Discord and only 1 person out of that wants to live stream as far as I can see. I will need to think of a way to attract people back to the channel in order to make it happen but right now I'm still not 100% well. I tried to do some recording today and couldn't stop coughing. I can edit that out on a vid but 20mins of coughing on a live stream isn't great entertainment. We'll have to see when it can happen
Putting these issues aside the general FPS issues are created by N3V themselves. If they remove backward compatibility, there would be less code needed and the game would run faster. Don't see it happening though
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I've been away from Trainz a-year-and-a-half, playing its chief rival instead. However, I recently returned, upon buying the new, vastly updated version of Healesville. By coincidence, I downloaded (via download station) what I assume is the latest version of your Big Build. (I had Small Build installed previously.) My version of Trainz 2019 is standard, not platinum. The build is 14863. After watching this video, I fired up Trainz (via Steam) selected Big Build, and chose the Perran Sands ride-along session. I notice that it has "!" indication. Filtering for faults shows four things: SetOneJunction, a loco, a tender, and the session itself. I didn't think to look for missing items. I watched the session some minutes, longer than the portion you show here. It ran very smoothly for me. Well, as smoothly as can be expected on a now somewhat dated computer. I don't know that this is any help to you, but figure I ought to mention it.
Cheers for the feedback.
The Plat and Standard versions are basically the same. There's a few more build tools on the Plat version but other than that there's really no difference.
The Big build route on the download station is a fairly old version. There's a newer version on my site and I think some of the error messages you see are because depreciated assets. I've updated assets various times since then. Other than the errors you saw its good to know the session ran okay.
Ive looked up your build number and pretty sure it's a Steam version but not 100% sure how this tallies to the game when bought directly. I think it's the same as my 114800 build but there might be differences which allows you to load it. Theres only 2 mentions of the build number on the forum so its difficult to 100% know.
What I might do is test this earlier version on my game to see how it loads. If it loads it could mean the issue is something that has been added since then. The route is Big though so it's like finding a needle in a haystack.
SP4 seems to have had a very rocky reception based on the extremely long thread on the Trainz forum. So many problems have been reported, including 'Drive To' and 'Navigate To' commands. So much so that they gave a link so that users could revert to SP3. There is now an SP5 Beta available. I wouldn't like to say whether this would help or not, but it may help. One thing I learnt a long time ago was never to trust any of the updates because they virtually always broke something or other. The results is that I now download each update as a new Version, thereby keeping the older version intact . I have been doing this for TRS19, TANE and I still have the last two updates to TS12. I even have earlier versions but these are archived. Admittedly it does take up a lot of disk space but it at least I can go back and see when it got broken, or when an asset disappeared into the void. It may be worth ploughing your way through the Forum thread for any clues, reverting to SP3, or trying the SP5 beta. Unfortunately, I can think of anything specific except that missing buildings may be due to them having been packaged in a DLC and not (yet) updated on the DLS.
Mike
Thanks for your reply Mike.
Do you have a link to the thread or their link to revert back please? I went on the forum yesterday after discovering the issues, saw some threads but didn't see that. Don't worry if you don't as I'll be searching again.
The biggest issue I have is that I provide this as a download and (for the small amount of people) I try to keep it updated to the latest version and that's the only reason I updated the game. I do have multiple data folders for previous versions of the route but the latest game version refuses to read any of them. My backups don't exist according to it. My standard version of the game reads them fine.
What you say about drive to and navigate to correlates to what I see. Porting the route back to a previous version does seem to remove these commands so they might well have been updated.
There's no obvious asset the causes the issue. Obvious things like the track I checked with no difference. And the fact that if I import the route file directly from my standard SP2 install, the route file works fine until I make a save to the session file. So.. saving the route file by itself is fine but if the route file is saved along side the session file, it suddenly has issues.
I was discussing this elsewhere and the real issues are that they are desperately trying to update the game but also wish to keep the backward compatibility and the both just aren't compatible. It's fully understandable why they wish to but at some point for the good of the game they will need to pull the plug
Fun fact: backwards compatibility has already been broken with TS2009 and TS12, yet oddly enough, 2006 assets work in both 2009 and (apparently) 2012 versions.
Did they build the release with debugging information turned on in the compiler? That would be my first guess.
I did turn on debugging but it didn't seem to do anything. Theres no on screen messages nor any files created that I could find.
I did more testing and have written a blog entrey here
th-cam.com/users/postUgkxw5khJkmpjZyYvvXUmurQ8-13tNk83HdB
Essentially the trains seems to be causing some if not all the issues. Remove them and the FPS returns to something normal and as you add them back the fps steadily drops.
My guess now is that anything that requires a script causes the issue. There is a script file in the route foder but it cannot be opened without special software. At this point I'm at a dead end.
Just trying the DLS 1.2 version of TBB on Trainz 22 SP3 and it seems to be working okay on my end.
I tried downloading the 1.3 version from the site but the stupid captcha wouldn't let me make an account...
Theres major changes between the site and dls versions. The original ideas was to get the site version up to a point that I'm happy with and them to replace the DLS version with it. But then they updated the game and it broke. Knowing the version on the DLS still worked I opted just to leave it as is.
To get a semi-working route file working again on the site I needed to strip out a lot of stuff. I never really worked out what caused it. Removing the locos didn't correct it (although some locos did have issues after the update which had FPS impacts) so it was something else. I remember looking at anything with a script as these were the most likely culprits. The final route revision on the site will work but if you install any of the sessions from the site the route will break and the only way to fix that will be to remove the session and route and re-install the route again. It was not possible to fix the sessions and so I don't recommend ever downloading them.
Its a shame but it's been a couple of years now and I've moved on. I remember being annoyed that they did a game braking update mid term of 19 and thought they should have waited to the next full version of the game but the truth is the real issue is that most of the UK based assets are really really old. There are a few new UK themed assets but to build a UK route you have to use assets up to 10yrs old and this causes issues. The game has to keep being updated to stay relevant and this will mean increasingly the older assets will become obsolete. And as theres currently not many people creating new UK assets it means building UK based layouts without using DLC assets which I've tried to stay clear of will become increasing difficult.
At this point, you might want to acquire a copy of an earlier version of Trainz (not T:ANE or TS12; an EVEN EARLIER VERSION like Trainz Railroad Simulator 2006 or maybe Trainz 2009: Route Builder Edition).
Certainly one solution lol
No ideas mate. Been trying to think up anything and I got nothing.
I think there're likely multiple reasons. Assets on the map that might contributing and even commands & rules that have been downloaded that perhaps are now out of date. The route started out on TANE and then got upgraded to 19. It likely has assets that are just out of date.
@@bluewizard I think the main issue is them forcing the backwards compatible of alot of their older assets. They update the game mechanics with each version but then hamper it but just letting out dated content get used. There some stuff that dates right back to 09
You're preaching the the converted here. I've said the same thing myself many many times. They won't change this though as they are scared they won't have any content for their game. Transport Fever has the best way to do it. Release a new game, provide the docs on how to upgrade the user made asset from the previous game to the newest version and then get better FPS because they don't have the backwards compat. They have thousand upon thousands of mods so not adding in backwards compatibility isn't hurting them at all. Nor would it Trainz.
@@bluewizard oh definitely not. Those who want the content will make it anyways. No matter what.
Exactly... but they're a small business and I think too scared of loosing sales to change their methods. It's a shame. Oh what it could be
so, if New Town isn't named yet, you could name it Newton, so it still sounds the same
hey, does the big build work with TRS22?
Unlikely. The route file might but the sessions no. I've not tested it on 22 but 22 seems to be an accumtive update to 19 so most things that work on the last update of 19 should work on early versions of 22 and things that don't won't.
After this video I did manage to update the route file to mostly work. It's missing stuff but the FPS is okay. The session files bork this update though and after installed the route no longer works even if loaded without a session file so if you do try the route and it works don't try the session files.
@@bluewizard so I downloaded the route only and after replacing missing dependencies it worked quite well, even though there is no mainline.
Did you download the route from download station? If so there's a far newer version in my website. Head to bluewizard.uk, sign up for a free account and go to the downloads page. This version is up to date
@@bluewizard oh sick ty but I don’t know how to bring into trainz
Importing is very easy. Out cycling right now so can't explain in depth but all you need to do is download the file and use the import option on the download station window. I'm fairly sure if you find the video in the playlist where I say it's ready to download I'll show you how there
It is mentioned in the video that downgrading to ts2019 sp3 was the recommended option due to framerates, I bought the game a couple days ago and am wondering how this gets done?
I have two installs. An sp4 and an sp2. Sp4 for this route is broken. Sp3 worked fine but the performance wasnt as good as sp2. So for me sp2 gives the best performance out off all them
However.. unless you have the full download/ install file for a previous version there's no way that I know of to downgrade. They don't openly provide links to previous versions so its unlikely you will find one. You could ask support but it takes a few days to get a response and I'm not sure if they would provide it. It doesn't hurt to ask
thats a bugger
Frustrating at the time. But oh well, it happens
Ah yes Trainz and yet again another "Update"...... all the assets that vanish and low FPS is just a "feature" i think as the community has memed. Why I have held firmly to TANE for now. I remember SP2 for TANE and one of my earliest routes wouldn't even allow me to build on it without assets deleting themselves in between saves. I really think they need to Iron out how to truly do updates to the game that doesn't break everything every time to push it out to the community...
Firstly I would remove backward compatibility from Trainz. Trainz 19 would work with assets designed for Trainz 19 and thats it. I would then provide tools for users that create mods to help them update their assets to Trainz 19. The less code the game has the better it would run.
Next I would look how the update process is implemented. I look at this from afar so could be completely wrong how I interpret their methods but as far as I can see they come up with an idea then add it. They add a few of these changes together and call it a service pack and give that a build number. Once they get up to a certain build number they say thats it for this version of the game, the next build will be a totally new game. Trainz 22 seems to be the same as Trainz 19 with higher build number. For me Trainz 19 and 22 should be separate. We pay for a new game so why should we get 19 dressed up in new colours. The game should be built from scratch and not a simple update that could have been placed in 19. Tane, 19 & 22 will all share the same game engine but I feel that should be the extent of their connection. Each one should be programmed individually. But this is a company and companies need to make money. Doing it the way they do now is likely the most efficient way for them so I don't think they will change their methods.
when will you go live
Sorry buddy, the straight answer is I don't know. Me getting sick has straight buggered up quite a few plans. The live stream needed to happened straight after as the new channel audience was still here. Apart from a couple of you, most now aren't. The idea was simple... Get lots of people to participate and try to do what I did in 38 episodes in 1 night. From wood to refined oil in one night. Could it be done? But only 10 people joined the Discord and only 1 person out of that wants to live stream as far as I can see. I will need to think of a way to attract people back to the channel in order to make it happen but right now I'm still not 100% well. I tried to do some recording today and couldn't stop coughing. I can edit that out on a vid but 20mins of coughing on a live stream isn't great entertainment. We'll have to see when it can happen
I love trainz but there fps is rubbish can't play grr come on trainz get act together please
Putting these issues aside the general FPS issues are created by N3V themselves. If they remove backward compatibility, there would be less code needed and the game would run faster. Don't see it happening though