a) I doubt you can name 7. b) Please remember that over a recent 10-year period, FSU ranked last in the ACC for football investment. It was diverting funds to other sports to get closer to peer with FLORIDA.
@@tarheel7406Being a student here, the past presidents had a heavy focus on raising our academic rankings. Even though we are the top dogs again, we still have a heavy focus on academics since our president wants us to get into the AAU
@@michaelward2898 a) FSU is likely now a near peer #2 to the flag FLORIDA b) I don't blame FSU for trying to close the gap with FLORIDA and better fit ACC brand. I fault FSU for blaming others when the risks it takes come to fruition. FSU was a huge academic exception when the ACC invited. Its sole responsibility was to tentpole football and remain reasonably competitive. Improvements in academic standing and overall athletics were a welcome bonus. Allowing the football to decline over an extended period was a failure of that responsibility.
They want to get out of the ACC because of the money. No other reason. If they were making Big 10 money they would love the ACC. It’s always about the money.
For those of you that think that the lack of different ACC Champions makes them a bad conference, the last 10 SEC champions: 2023: Alabama 2022: Georgia 2021: Alabama 2020: Alabama 2019: LSU 2018: Alabama 2017: Georgia 2016: Alabama 2015: Alabama 2014: Alabama The "far and away best conference" has the exact same amount of repeated champions as the ACC. What does that make them?
@@xdgaming70 literally nobody else does that, to be clear. My point in using it as one example of many was to show how unique & beneficial the partnership between Clemson and the ACC really is & why they might not hate each other or benefit from leaving. Cheers.
The deal isn't the problem; a thriving, competitive ACC would make the existing deal look like a boon, & the length was an explicit requirement by Clemson & FSU to stay instead of join the BIG12 in 2012.
Can you imagine if the SEC gave, say, Alabama *zero* bye-week opponents, or the B1G did it for Ohio State? We'd riot. Instead, they get many, including sometimes the NCAA-maximum of 6 (down from 7). Clemson has had zero bye-week opponents a *record* number of times since recommitting to the ACC in 2012, including this year where all teams have two *or even three* bye-weeks. Clemson also travels the least number of miles in the sport this season. The partnership Clemson has made with the ACC is unique in *all* of sports, & enough to be worth celebrating. Consequently, it's also kinda buried the rest of the league over a decade, including even FSU who missed a bowl game for the first time in Josh's lifetime & the biggest loss margin in bowl game history. I love the ACC. I love Clemson. I hate the consequence & perhaps terrible timing for the league simply not being nearly as competitive or certainly not as popular as other leagues, notably the two biggest ones. The contract was *never* the problem & instead always could have been an absolute boon; instead, the league's competitiveness & popularity plummeted while others skyrocketed, & now we're at a point where we blame a contract that could still be salvation for the league as a whole. 💔
@@ianmcintosh8307 exactly, yes, teams with an extra week of rest & preparation. It's one example of many highlighting the remarkable partnership Clemson has with the ACC, but it's certainly unique.
The ACC has done as well as any other conference except the SEC. Other than Michigan and OSU, what have other B1G teams accomplished? Nothing! And Michigan has only seen success in the last few seasons-- it took them 75 years to win a national championship! The only teams worth a damn in the B12 left for the SEC. The two teams that ever sniffed a national championship in the PAC 12 have joined the B1G. What about the success Jimbo Fisher had with FSU?
This dudes statement is an absolute joke! If the ACC is underachieving and a glorified G5, what is the BIG 10? The ACC had 4 national titles in football since 04' and the BIG 10 has 2. Sure the ACC has national hotbed for recruiting but so has the BIG 10 and the SEC. Other than Michigan and Ohio State, who in the BIG 10 has been nationally relevant for multiple years? Va Tech hasn't underachieved. Since the end of the Mike Vick Era, VT has played in 6 title games and won 4. They dominated the ACC after FSU and before Clemson. NC State hasn't played for an ACC title. UNC only did once as well as Miami. But who else has done anything relevant in the BIG 10? That conference gets overhyped every preseason and still only lands with one team potentially headed to the cfb playoffs. And if the ACC is so terrible, why is it that all these other conferences are vying for these so called G5 teams? The conference has overachieved in everything other than tv contracts and still has more basketball national titles than any other conference since 04. Glorified perception is more like it.
You are right Josh, and I been saying over and over again, ACC fail to invest in coaches. Winning start with a good coach. ACC school pick a coach and keep him more the less a friendship than about winning. In sports as a coach winning is your bottom line product. A good coach will win at least 10 games against the best. If your coach can't win , your program is in decline. Sec invest in coaches all the time, if you don't win you out.
Pate a loss cause. I can make the same argument for the BugTen Conference outside of Ohio St and Michigan. The rest of the BigTen belongs sissy’s schools for poor conference.
I think there are a lot of disappointments in the ACC. From their new additions to the conference, to post season and even non con results. Its crazy to believe how far they have dropped. It also hurts that they allowed ND to stay independent in FB and allowed them to still have a vote. And what also hurt is that media rights that will be hard/impossible to change while the other 4 conferences would be able to get new more lucrative deals before this current ACC deal expires. And this deal has been going since 2013! So a lot of missed opportunities and fumbles by the conference
@@MercerKnowsBall you sure? Because last time I checked (and what josh pate report) the Big 12’s new deal will earn more than the ACC (380M vs 240M), they latest round if realignment lead the ACC to bring in Cal & Stanford (who haven’t had the best football results) for 30% and SMU for 0 tv revenue and hasn’t had the best tv ratings. A Conference prestige that fell so low that when the committee had to choose between an undefeated 13-0 ACC team vs a 12-1 Big 12 and 12-1 SEC team, they left out the undefeated ACC team. A media deal so old that the SEC, B1G, and Big 12 would have gotten 2 new deals for more since then. A tv revenue so behind the rest that FSU & Clemson are suing to get out in order to catchup to their instate and regional rivals. And schools like UNC are apparently threatening the same thing. With ESPN not really wanting to change the deal because they are profiting heavily amount from the ACC. It was pure nonsense for the ACC to have this deal last so long without a better way to renegotiate or to bring it up.
@@tarheel7406 why do all this including and excluding? Why not exclude Clemson and FSU because they are wanting to leave and will do so at some point? Feels very cherry picked
@@MercerKnowsBall the SMART money would see that the Big 12 will he having a new media deal that will beat the ACC (380M vs 240M). The football prestige of a conference so down that they allowed a undefeated acc team to NOT go to a playoff but brought a 12-1 Big 12 and 12-1 SEC team. A situation do down that FSU and Clemson are suing and UNC also wants to leave. The situation so bad they had to bring in football programs at a heavy discount and it is arguable only one had recent success, but those 3 still had pretty low (reported) viewership. A deal that will last so long that the others would have negotiated ANOTHER deal for even more money than the previous. Not a lot of smart moves to have this deal to drag them down.
In 2023 ACC was 7-5 vs SEC and 4-4 against Big 10. This is with underachieving VT, Miami, and UNC. If VT and Miami step up with their new found Qbs and coaches, the ACC is looking at a legit dangerous 4-some with FSU and Clemson. If UNC, NC State and Louisville have solid year, then I think the infield perception of the ACC could begin to change. Hopefully not too little too late.
Yep. That’s why there is still more than just the P2. Fans aren’t going to stop going to games. The financial gap is wide with the SEC and Big 10 but it’s a moment in time. Big 12 schools and ACC schools still compete at the highest level
1 year period. Everyone and they momma knows it’s more than head to head. Look at chips, draft picks, top 10 teams on a yearly basis. I can go on. No valid reason the ACC isn’t 2nd best to the SEC.
And if you look at the all time record the SEC has won 64% of the games winning by an average of 6 points. The SEC is a better conference. But the talent gap between the two isn’t as wide as the financial gap.
@@xdgaming70no one’s saying the ACC is better than the SEC. Just that the perception that the SEC is always assumed better should be taken with a grain of salt. Just because they are great does not make them untouchable.
There are two names that are responsible for the state of the ACC. The first is John Swofford and the next is Jim Phillips. The day Phillips was hired I looked over his resume and immediately thought to myself this guy is nothing but John Swofford 2.0
@@Greydawg because the people that were in charge were not being aggressive. When ESPN discovered they were dealing with some amateurs they took full advantage as they should have.
The ACC underachieves for the same reason its BCS winners underachieve. FSU and Miami have not won a playoff championship game. The same with the Big 12. BCS winners OU and Texas underachieved going 0-5 in the playoffs. They've traded on their brand names and went to the SEC.
OU and Texas are sell outs and just wanted to be on Texas A&M jock strap because they were the reason aka OU and Texas became greedy with their own networks at the Big 12.
Recently Josh? Are you forgetting the 16 conference championships that Florida State has won? Are you forgetting how they came into the league and absolutely dominated for over a decade? Are you forgetting about the fact that FSU has brought more revenue into the ACC than any other program in the conference? Even in the down years eyeballs were on TV sets! Sometimes you are just so casual and flippant with your analysis. But hey I've been a subscriber for 3 or 4 years now so....
Seems rather silly. Looking at just football and accounting for realignment thus far, the new ACC has won 5 national championships over the past 25 seasons. In a P5 world, that's exactly average and better than the new B1G, new BIG12, and old PAC. What's the expectation here? Football Playoff Appearances, 1st Rd Wins, Nattys (per Wiki 2015-2024) ACC: 8-4-2 (Includes 1 of 2 ND appearances) B12: 2-1-0 (Excludes OK; includes Cincy) B1G: 12-5-2 (Includes Oregon & Washington) PAC: 0-0-0 (Excludes Oregon & Washington) SEC: 17-10-6 (Includes OK & TEXAS) BCS Runner Ups - Champs (2000 - 2014) ACC: 4-3 (Includes VATECH, MIAMI, ND) B12: 0-0 (Excludes NEB, OK, TX) B1G: 5-2 (Includes NEB, USC, ORE) PAC: 0-0 (Excludes USC, ORE) SEC: 6-10 (Includes OK, TEX) Outside of football, the ACC is the ONLY conference to have won a natty over the past ~10 years in football, men's basketball, and baseball (the sports I've researched). The ACC is at least top-level peer in D-Cup competition. Has the most upper right members.
Obvious VT homer here, but wouldn't you say that VT had to fight to get into the ACC when the Big East was being raided, yet turned out to carry the ACC in the early 2000s? The 2010s wasn't kind to VT because they were transitioning from the latter years of Frank Beamer and made a mistake with Fuente. Hopefully Pry can make them relevant again and get them back to the national conversation again.
(BigEast) Somewhat true outside of Virginia Tech with 4 Titles (Only Pitt has 1) and that’s since the 50s VT joined ~2000. They sit behind UNC who has 5 in 70 yrs. Only Clemson, FSU, Maryland, Duke, NC State have more. Only Clemson and FSU has more since the Big East teams joined.
Technically mid and late 2000s. In the early 2000s, they were still in the Big East which i think had better teams than the ACC did. It was small so outside of Temple and Rutgers all those programs were good at the time
Does the emphasis on academics play a role in the ACC's performance relative to the football factory conferences? Conversely, within the ACC, is anyone looking at Clemson or FSU as bastions of academia? Further, Tech, Wake, Duke, and BC are relatively small schools with less $$ to throw at players and coaches. But times are changing and academic standards are being "adjusted". Listening to some of these kids being interviewed is truly shocking. They can barely put a coherent sentence together in response to the questions. No, I couldn't stay on the field with any of them, but I don't think they could stay in the classroom with me and my peers. All pretense at academics has been dropped. Am I wrong?
"...is anyone looking at Clemson or FSU as bastions of academia?" In short, absolutely, yes. They're both accredited, & Clemson I believe still has the highest graduation rate & average GPA in the era, for example.
@@Greydawg Merely being accredited is a pretty low bar, and having athletes with high graduation rates and GPA's says more about the standards applied than it does about the intellectual firepower of the students. Just sayin'.
@@randycarson9812 yes, so in other words it's a dead end & we're not speaking like adults, I made the mistake of assuming we were & I always give people the benefit of the doubt until they take it away. Cheers.
@@Greydawg FSU was a huge academic exception for the ACC. Its improvement has been a boon. CLEMSON is the 2nd worst academic school in the ACC. Within brand but fringe.
Why, though? No other conference will give us, for example, *zero bye-week opponents* like we have again even this year when all teams have two (or more) bye-weeks. We even travel the least number of miles outright. It's a tremendous & inescapably unique partnership in all of sports, & it deserves to be celebrated more than some extra money ever could be regardless of the actual cost of competition & loss of that special partnership.
Through the history of the ACC, CLEMSON very likely has been carried more than carried. Fans will be fans, but don't be foolish like FSU and its fans have been.
Lol this is such bs, The ACC was never known as a Football conference and you know that. The moves that were made to increase Basketball membership in the conference, which is kind of funny how the same Media shits on the conference in basketball but constantly performs at an high level in the post season. The blame starts with Tobacco road, Greedy nerds who couldn't get their way. Also the ACC has been improving but keep homering hard for the SEC that's about to cannibalize itself smh.
Sheer stupidity.... a) The ACC is considered a "basketball conference" because of its dominance in that sport. It still has won 5 nattys over the past 25 seasons, more than everyone else besides the SEC. b) All ACC expansions from FSU to L'VILLE were football focused and pushed by the football schools over some degree of T-Road obection.
"Tobacco road, Greedy nerds who couldn't get their way." You got that right! South Carolina fan here. That's exactly why we left the ACC over half a century ago.
UNC is not a large school with huge alumni base. I’ll agree they’ve underachieved. They also have a middle level athletic budget for the ACC. They have the most successful program overall. I agree, though, football must do better
a) UNC's undergrad enrollment and alumni base will likely not grow at the same rate as the state population. Selectivity will increase instead. This makes the alumni base increase in value per. b) Nevertheless, UNC's extended fanbase should increase with state population. c) The P2 consolidation will have a parity effect on football, especially for huge overall brands like a UNC.
PATE... You HINT at the problem but you MISS the Mark. It was the DIVISIONS, PATE. You List 3 Teams from the Coastal and how they dropped the Ball. That whole Division was MID. And 1 had to WIN and be too Mid to compete in the ACC-CCG s the Atlantic. The Atlantic was too OVERPOWERED because it had the 4 Best Program in it and 2 of those 4 Programs have had years where they were a NATIONAL CHAMPION Level Team. So you had 1 OVERPOWERED team every year that dropped an L on the other 3 teams. Then those 3 each played and Dropped 3 more Ls. So take a year Clemson was GREAT... they beat FSU, NC State and Louisville. Then 1 of those 3 was 2nd Best but left out of the Conference Championship Game with 1 Loss and the other 2 now have 2 Losses and have to play each other WHERE 1 of them gets a 3rd Loss. Then the ACC-CCG is not a Marquee Matchup and the ACC-CCG Runner-up is an Afterthought for the New Years 6 game which would go to the Usually UNDESERVING Coastal Champs. For some Evidence why it it that in the ONLY YEAR without Divisions BOTH of the Top 2 Teams in the ACC-CCG were former Atlantic Division schools. Watch AGAIN this year as these 4 teams will ALL be in the mix for the ACC-CCG (and some Coastal Team will be in the mix too). But you can bet that 2 of those 4 will be in the ACCC-CCG again this year at like 9 to 1 Odds and NOT a former Coastal Team. The UNBALANCED DIVISIONS helped make sure FSU and Clemons had the Strength of Schedule to make the Playoffs. But they HURT the ACC as a Whole and MOST non-ACC fans saw FSU or Clemson BEAT THE ISH out of the Coastal Champ and that is ALL they saw.
As a VT alum and Dad, you’re spot on. It’s too bad too, that it’s falling apart because VT and Miami (who both must be good for ACC legitimacy) are getting better! Honestly, both have not pulled their weight for 7 years (VT) and 20 years (Miami) respectively. But again, now both may be near the top again.
People will soon realize that the ACC now is nowhere NEAR as bad as the Big12 without texas and oklahoma. If we're talking about playoff teams, there's like two in the big12 if that.
VT manhandled the ACC for 8 years when it joined in 2004. From 2004 - 2011, VT won the conference 4 times and played in the championship game 5/7 of the first 7 years. Younger fans don’t realize just how dominant they were when they joined the conference. I’d say VT, overall, has pulled their weight. Compare that to Miami’s results.
The ACC went through a true identity crisis. A basketball conference that said to themselves they wanted to be a football conference. They overstocked on programs. What no one seems to admit is that what works for 1 conference is not necessarily going to work for another conference. Just because the SEC has a successful conference championship game doesn't mean every conference will have a successful conference championship game. Just the Big 10 goes to 14 or 18 teams doesn't mean every conference should go to 14 or 18 teams. If I'm the ACC I would tell all member institutions that the leading institutions, the leading 5 or 6, will develop the standard or brand of ACC athletics. After that if any institution needs to drop out so be it. But it's clear to see the ACC really took on too much with the additions of Miami's, Pitt's, & Syracuses's athletics. They have brought no additional value to the conference. And bringing in Cal, Stanford & SMU doesn't look to be anything different for the foreseeable future.
a) It made sense to add MIAMI as a football tentpole. The problem occurred when MIAMI demanded BC/CUSE, political interference forced in VATECH, this resulted in also PITT. T-Road had objections, but FSU and the other "football" schools pushed them through. All have failed to meet reasonable expectations. b) The ACC is treating UNC, CLEMSON and FSU as gone. CAL+2 are part of a managed decline to the BIG12's Tier 2 level.
FSU carried the ACC for so long (nearly 20 years) and got them as far as the ACC could go. Then Clemson carried the water for a while and it looks like, for now, it's Clemson and FSU carrying the load. Can and will anyone else stand up and carry the load. Or will it implode before any other team can actually step up?
I don't know if I would count FSU carrying the ACC always. In the 2000s there was a good mix of great teams. VT one the ACC 3 times and was a top 10 team a lot of the time, GT had some good teams and an ACC title, there were even some BC teams with Matt Ryan. I feel like it's getting better though. I think Miami, VT, Louisville, and NC State are all showing that they're caring about football
They definitely regret adding WVU when they had the chance back in 2014, not that it would have particularly saved the conference, but WVU and Cincy in the ACC would've helped drive the football value up. something they are not getting from cal stanford smu. just too little too late sadly.
They had to grab those MARKETS to drive up the $$$ to later get the Brands to drive up the Football relevance. There are no 2 Markets bigger than Texas and California. That expansion is worth about $10 Million per ACC member JUST on the ACC Network Payouts. Without that extra ACCN Money you cannot FIX any of the other ACC Issues. The GOR will hold enough of the ACC Intact to fix the Brand and $$$ Issues over the next 2 years.
@@MercerKnowsBall in the last round of realignment it was about markets, but today they use a different metric other than MARKETS, because what if no one cares about the team in said market enough to watch. It is completely about brand recognition and if people will watch those games or not. And I have a sad feeling that no one is going to watch Cal Wake forest or Stanford vs Boston college. The proof that I am correct is the fact that the SEC took Texas and Oklahoma, the SEC already had the Texas market with aTm so why would they get Texas? Because people will watch Texas vs fill in the blank SEC team. It’s tremendously valuable. 10 million per ACC member is a completely ridiculous figure that I seriously doubt has any validity.
@@Niquilly A bad fit does not equate to having a problem. Frankly, the comments by WVU fans constantly prove the bad fit. WVU has relatively low base value and offers no high synergies to compensate. It has no blue or lite blue revenue sport, it's not strong in overall sports, and it's not a high academic school (due to its mission). Per its fans, WVU wouldn't be interested in the ACC in the Tier 2 world, which proves it doesn't value academic association nor overall sports. Bad fit then and in the future.
When youre not allowed access and the teams they wanted to be better lost right away its no surprise the image looks bad! Acc has been the second best conference the last 20 years! Look at draft picks, nattys, nonconference top 25 wins teams in the top 60 in offense and defense! Numbers dont lie, people do!
a) What conference doesn't have "garbage programs"? b) GATECH has a national championship within the modern era. c) No new BIG12 member has won same since BYU in the mid-80s. d) The new BIG12 is now all Tier 1 rejects and G5 equivalents.
You are not taking to account the size of these universities. The ACC has a few institutions that are over 30K, on the other hand the SEC and Big10 have few under 30K. Why does this make difference, because they cant afford to spend a ton of money infrastructure that the current recruit is looking for.
The ACC has high Endowments on the academics side. Duke is not poor. Miami scaled back of football because attracting international students pays Millions a year in pure cash tuition. Football fanatics can't count money.
SEC & BIG all have huge state schools & as a result huge alumni bases. This translates to more fans & more donations. ACC is loaded with way too many small schools.
What a ridiculous premise, ..for every winner, guess what, there are losers....Why hasn't SEC held up their part of the bargain? Thats right. Half the SEC are loser teams, 7 teams haven't won an SEC Football championship since 1963!. Ditto for the B1G, what has Nebraska done since joining the B1G? B12? Same deal...other than KSU, BAYLOR, Texahoma, have anyone else really won Chips? IN fact, the conference where the wealth was spread the most now no longer exists, leading one to deduce that parity is a BAD thing, a really, really bad thing. Just what do you suppose will happen if Ohio State or Bama started being limited to one conference chip per decade? Do you think they may want to look elsewhere? ...and now you know why a dozen team playoff was created , it's so these teams can all group together and don't have to keep winning conference chips, they can just by-pass all that, and beat up on a G5 teams in a playoff( who still have to bust their ass for a conference chip) until that national finals game.
As a Miami, fan, it just so disappointing how Miami was supposed to carry this conference with FSU and ene=ed up being a perenial 7-5 program. The university dug a hole for itself with underinvestment. That may change this year, but it's too late for the ACC. You could have 5 legit 9+ win schools like Clemson, Miami, FSU, VT, Louisville , NC State and it won't matter. FSU and Clemson are gone regardless
@@miguelvillar2044 Much respect for owning it. One can still do that and then still do what's best going forward. This is why I now disrespect FSU, which hasn't accepted responsibility. When it looked like UNC would pick the B1G, FSU was my preferred Florida school to come with, but I switched to MIAMI and would still prefer today. MIAMI has handled this realignment stress far better.
I was told years ago by an MIA alum that after the Shapiro scandal the administration said no more. They were so embarrassed that they starved the program of money.
For the casuals who apparently have no understanding of how college football works, every season, every conference will be top heavy. Using a one year measurement for validation? Who does that? You’re trying to base your entire validation on just one year? Here’s what a true validation measurement really looks like, Georgia against the ACC since 2000, 29 wins and only 5 losses. 2 decades is a much better measurement to base any real validity.
@@jansonroberts2616 We tend to mostly agree and do so here. Nevertheless, the SEC isn't the expectation in football. Every conference fails by comparison. The point is that the ACC is far better than given credit. People tend to have an equity instinct. Blondes and jocks are supposed to be dumb. Basketball conferences aren't supposed to be good at football. The reality is that the ACC is the most athletically balanced of all of the now P4s.
@@tarheel7406 I agree with you just fine with what you are saying but the gap is growing wider by the year. That gap is about to grow to chasmic proportions. There are a couple of monumental decisions coming in the near future that will affect all of college athletics. While you do make a great case for today’s ACC athletic balance, tomorrow has a completely new and different balance sheet being prepared for what is coming.
@@jansonroberts2616 This vid is about the here, now, and more recent history. If the gap was of no concern, USC/UCLA would not have moved and UNC wouldn't be trying to move. Leaving the historically perfect home for a new but acceptable remains difficult even if by necessity.
Other than Clemson and FSU, only Georgia Tech has won a National Championship in the past 50+ years. Georgia Tech was a solid team until Jeff Collins showed up. Coach Key is turning the team around and has very good coaches now, including offensive coordinator Faulkner who came from UGA. GT almost always out performs pre-season expectations. And, last year, after dominating Louisville most of the game, GT would have been in the ACC championship game had they held on to beat Louisville. Not saying GT will win the conference, but they should be mentioned in the conversations of historically good teams. Heck, even as bad as GT had been in the past few years, they still always beat North Carolina.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you meant to say that only Clemson and FSU have won national titles for the ACC in the last 30 years because everyone should know that Miami has definitely won 3 in the last 50 years albeit never while being in the ACC. Going to the ACC was the worse move Miami could have ever made because they are traditionally more of an SEC team. The only reasons why Miami has been garbage for the last 25 years is because the past presidents and athletic directors didn't know anything about nor cared about the athletics program. After Dennis Erickson left that program went down the garbage shoot in a hand bag. Now, they're starting to pump more resources and monies into the athletics so only time will tell if it will pay off. But, I'll agree, other than FSU and Clemson, the ACC has been straight garbage.
@@malcolmjones27 Um, that is obvious. A team not in the ACC when they won a national championship would be counted as a ACC team winning the national championship. That is why I didn't note Georgia Tech's three other national championships, one of which was while GT was in the SEC. Miami was lucky to get into the ACC with the collapse of the Big East conference. It turned out to be a bad deal for the ACC because Miami has pretty much sucked since Coker left. They were pretty good last season...until they couldn't take a knee to win a game.
OK, I'll accept your argument. So, what's the excuse for the B10? I've been following college football since 1964 and everything you said about the ACC is doubly true about the B10.
Outside of Ohio State and Michigan you still have great programs in Penn State, USC, Oregon, Wisconsin, and Washington. Outside of Clemson and Florida State who does the ACC have?
Enough with the “national championship” garbage. Top to bottom success is the only indicator. Was the ACC better than the SEC in 2018 because they won the title? No! Is Auburn still an elite program because they won a title 13 years ago and quickly sunk into oblivion? Auburn is no better than Michigan St or Wisconsin
While the SEC is the best in football, it's overrated and benefits from proven bias. The SEC isn't the expectation, it's a goal. As a comparison, the SEC is the worst in men's basketball measured by the Final Four over the past 10 years. It hasn't even won a FF game much less a championship. That's failing reasonable expectations.
LOL...why pick the past 18 seasons? Because it supports your argument? How about the most ever? Oh, that's Yale, followed by Alabama, Princeton, Notre Dame, Michigan. If you want to start at 1936 (the first AP poll), then it's Alabama, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Oklahoma, USC , then Miami, the first ACC team. It isn't until 4 teams later that Clemson shows up.
Yeah, because FSU beating LSU and Florida last year and Clemson taking two nattys from Bama was clearly a fluke. Maybe SEC fans would just cry about the competition finally getting tougher!
Not true the ACC used to be considered one of the premier conferences, but over the last 20 years poor management and leadership has damaged the reputation of the conference irreparably
@@Sammhm123 Money genius. Too many ACC teams spend very little on football. Also, the SEC gets double the money of what the ACC gets. The SEC has a much better overall NIL bank account. Half of the ACC only cares about bball. Money. Money. Money and I'll say it again, money.
Nah man FSU is outta there for sure, my money is gonna be on the B1G, calling that rn. Either way FSU has private equity already lined up, ready to pay the lunch tab and get ready for the dinner date. We had a fairly successful stint in the ACC, winning over a dozen conference championships and the Natty. Now it’s time to move on…. Most of the other teams should be eyeing a way out themselves as the whole conference is about to collapse - though I will say that Miami would finally be in a position to dominate the conference without interference from Clemson or FSU.
@@dominicesposito7659 Only FOOLS that cannot READ a Financial Statement or a TV Contract think the ACC will Collapse. But FSU is sure of it even thought it clearly cannot READ or it would know ACC Revenue is not a far from B1G Revenue as YOU think. It is STILL a big enough GAP in the $$$ for you to go. But not enough for you to be such Aholes on your way out. Good Riddance to TRASH.
@@dominicesposito7659 if I’m not mistaken, all three of FSU‘s Naty’s have came in the ACC we joined in 92 got one in 93 got another one in 99 played for another one in 2000 and then of course the 2013 team brought one back. I believe Bobby Bowden played for about five of them, but you know those wide rights and wide left wouldn’t stop being a bugaboo or we would have more than three titles.
@@dro2real836 Miami has been losing top Florida Recruits every since those sanctions hit in the early 2000s now they are starting to get top recruits. But no they have not been getting top players for decades plus.
@@DDB5 bro, where was Miami ranked at in high school recruiting last year? I know they were ranked higher than Florida State because Florida State had the number 12 recruiting class.
@@DDB5 I can read just fine. I’m only pointing out what I’m pointing out because at this point the landscape of college football is totally different with and IL and the transfer portal, but not only that Miami have had some very good recruiting classes over the years, but there is a disconnect between what they bring in and the coaching hires they have made go back and look at how many coaches Miami has had since 2001 then get back to me and can we just have the conversation in a civil manner we can do without all the insults I’m an adult and I’m pretty sure you are as well so there’s no need for us to be nasty toward another not a debate for me. I thought it was a conversation.
24 big ten 24 sec and 24 big twelve Big ten Big Ten: East Coast - Rutgers - Maryland - Virginia - North Carolina - Georgia Tech - Florida State Big Ten: Great Lakes - Penn State - Ohio State - Michigan - Michigan State - Indiana - Purdue Big Ten: Riverlands - Minnesota - Wisconsin - NorthWestern - Illinois - Iowa - Nebraska Big Ten: West Coast - Washington - Oregon - Stanford - Utah - USC - UCLA SEC: ATLANTIC - West Virginia - Virginia Tech - NC State - Clemson - South Carolina - Miami SEC: East Gulf - Florida - Georgia - Alabama - Auburn - Tennessee - Kentucky SEC: Delta - Ole Miss - Miss State - LSU - Vanderbilt - Arkansas - Missouri SEC: Southwest - Texas - Texas A&M - Oklahoma - Oklahoma State - Baylor - Texas Tech Big 12 Boston College Syracuse Pitt Louisville Cincinnati UConn Duke Wake Forest UCF USF Memphis Tulane Houston TCU SMU Kansas Kansas State Iowa State Colorado BYU Arizona Arizona State Cal San Diego State Next 16 FRESNO STATE BOISE STATE EAST CAROLINA UAB APP STATE COASTAL CAROLINA UTSA TEMPLE MARSHALL OHIO TOLEDO AIR FORCE NAVY ARMY OREGON STATE WASHINGTON STATE
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The ACC has like 7 schools that aren't trying to play competitive football
a) I doubt you can name 7.
b) Please remember that over a recent 10-year period, FSU ranked last in the ACC for football investment. It was diverting funds to other sports to get closer to peer with FLORIDA.
@@tarheel7406Being a student here, the past presidents had a heavy focus on raising our academic rankings. Even though we are the top dogs again, we still have a heavy focus on academics since our president wants us to get into the AAU
@@michaelward2898
a) FSU is likely now a near peer #2 to the flag FLORIDA
b) I don't blame FSU for trying to close the gap with FLORIDA and better fit ACC brand. I fault FSU for blaming others when the risks it takes come to fruition. FSU was a huge academic exception when the ACC invited. Its sole responsibility was to tentpole football and remain reasonably competitive. Improvements in academic standing and overall athletics were a welcome bonus. Allowing the football to decline over an extended period was a failure of that responsibility.
@@tarheel7406 it is what it is, I’m just happy I get a good degree that puts food on the table and a nice car 😭
@@michaelward2898 To be clear, FSU had been a model expansion until it broke under the pressure of this realignment.
They want to get out of the ACC because of the money. No other reason. If they were making Big 10 money they would love the ACC. It’s always about the money.
For those of you that think that the lack of different ACC Champions makes them a bad conference, the last 10 SEC champions:
2023: Alabama
2022: Georgia
2021: Alabama
2020: Alabama
2019: LSU
2018: Alabama
2017: Georgia
2016: Alabama
2015: Alabama
2014: Alabama
The "far and away best conference" has the exact same amount of repeated champions as the ACC. What does that make them?
Still more competitive, to be fair, & notably with *all* of those teams playing at least two bye-week opponents every season of this era.
@@Greydawg”bye week opponents” ok cool. Who DOESNT do that? That’s your only argument in spite of how double edged the sword is
@@xdgaming70 literally nobody else does that, to be clear. My point in using it as one example of many was to show how unique & beneficial the partnership between Clemson and the ACC really is & why they might not hate each other or benefit from leaving. Cheers.
Louisville 10 wins with one of the worst QB’s in school history…no mention 🤔
Ready for someone to sue Swofford for the terrible TV deal with his son’s company.
The deal isn't the problem; a thriving, competitive ACC would make the existing deal look like a boon, & the length was an explicit requirement by Clemson & FSU to stay instead of join the BIG12 in 2012.
Based off JPs statement of why tht ACC is a glorified G5 conference, that should make the B10 one as well
N tht B12 would be a FCS conference.
Can you imagine if the SEC gave, say, Alabama *zero* bye-week opponents, or the B1G did it for Ohio State? We'd riot. Instead, they get many, including sometimes the NCAA-maximum of 6 (down from 7).
Clemson has had zero bye-week opponents a *record* number of times since recommitting to the ACC in 2012, including this year where all teams have two *or even three* bye-weeks. Clemson also travels the least number of miles in the sport this season.
The partnership Clemson has made with the ACC is unique in *all* of sports, & enough to be worth celebrating. Consequently, it's also kinda buried the rest of the league over a decade, including even FSU who missed a bowl game for the first time in Josh's lifetime & the biggest loss margin in bowl game history.
I love the ACC. I love Clemson. I hate the consequence & perhaps terrible timing for the league simply not being nearly as competitive or certainly not as popular as other leagues, notably the two biggest ones. The contract was *never* the problem & instead always could have been an absolute boon; instead, the league's competitiveness & popularity plummeted while others skyrocketed, & now we're at a point where we blame a contract that could still be salvation for the league as a whole. 💔
what do you mean by bye week opponents? playing a team thats coming off a bye week?
@@ianmcintosh8307 exactly, yes, teams with an extra week of rest & preparation.
It's one example of many highlighting the remarkable partnership Clemson has with the ACC, but it's certainly unique.
The ACC has done as well as any other conference except the SEC. Other than Michigan and OSU, what have other B1G teams accomplished? Nothing! And Michigan has only seen success in the last few seasons-- it took them 75 years to win a national championship! The only teams worth a damn in the B12 left for the SEC. The two teams that ever sniffed a national championship in the PAC 12 have joined the B1G. What about the success Jimbo Fisher had with FSU?
Great comment
Real talk
Hey baldy GT has played UGA Closer than the rest of the sec not named Bama
This dudes statement is an absolute joke! If the ACC is underachieving and a glorified G5, what is the BIG 10? The ACC had 4 national titles in football since 04' and the BIG 10 has 2. Sure the ACC has national hotbed for recruiting but so has the BIG 10 and the SEC. Other than Michigan and Ohio State, who in the BIG 10 has been nationally relevant for multiple years? Va Tech hasn't underachieved. Since the end of the Mike Vick Era, VT has played in 6 title games and won 4. They dominated the ACC after FSU and before Clemson. NC State hasn't played for an ACC title. UNC only did once as well as Miami. But who else has done anything relevant in the BIG 10? That conference gets overhyped every preseason and still only lands with one team potentially headed to the cfb playoffs. And if the ACC is so terrible, why is it that all these other conferences are vying for these so called G5 teams? The conference has overachieved in everything other than tv contracts and still has more basketball national titles than any other conference since 04. Glorified perception is more like it.
You are right Josh, and I been saying over and over again, ACC fail to invest in coaches. Winning start with a good coach. ACC school pick a coach and keep him more the less a friendship than about winning. In sports as a coach winning is your bottom line product. A good coach will win at least 10 games against the best. If your coach can't win , your program is in decline. Sec invest in coaches all the time, if you don't win you out.
The football recruiting footprint is crazy! From Miami to N Florida through Georgia, the Carolinas and Virginia. 🔥
Pate a loss cause. I can make the same argument for the BugTen Conference outside of Ohio St and Michigan. The rest of the BigTen belongs sissy’s schools for poor conference.
I think there are a lot of disappointments in the ACC. From their new additions to the conference, to post season and even non con results. Its crazy to believe how far they have dropped. It also hurts that they allowed ND to stay independent in FB and allowed them to still have a vote. And what also hurt is that media rights that will be hard/impossible to change while the other 4 conferences would be able to get new more lucrative deals before this current ACC deal expires. And this deal has been going since 2013! So a lot of missed opportunities and fumbles by the conference
Nonsense. Lots of people BELIEVE what you said. But that is NONSENSE. The SMART money know you are WRONG.
Football Playoff Appearances, 1st Rd Wins, Nattys (per Wiki 2015-2024)
ACC: 8-4-2 (Includes 1 of 2 ND appearances)
B12: 2-1-0 (Excludes OK; includes Cincy)
B1G: 12-5-2 (Includes Oregon & Washington)
PAC: 0-0-0 (Excludes Oregon & Washington)
SEC: 17-10-6 (Includes OK & TEXAS)
BCS Runner Ups - Champs (2000 - 2014)
ACC: 4-3 (Includes VATECH, MIAMI, ND)
B12: 0-0 (Excludes NEB, OK, TX)
B1G: 5-2 (Includes NEB, USC, ORE)
PAC: 0-0 (Excludes USC, ORE)
SEC: 6-10 (Includes OK, TEX)
@@MercerKnowsBall you sure? Because last time I checked (and what josh pate report) the Big 12’s new deal will earn more than the ACC (380M vs 240M), they latest round if realignment lead the ACC to bring in Cal & Stanford (who haven’t had the best football results) for 30% and SMU for 0 tv revenue and hasn’t had the best tv ratings. A Conference prestige that fell so low that when the committee had to choose between an undefeated 13-0 ACC team vs a 12-1 Big 12 and 12-1 SEC team, they left out the undefeated ACC team. A media deal so old that the SEC, B1G, and Big 12 would have gotten 2 new deals for more since then. A tv revenue so behind the rest that FSU & Clemson are suing to get out in order to catchup to their instate and regional rivals. And schools like UNC are apparently threatening the same thing. With ESPN not really wanting to change the deal because they are profiting heavily amount from the ACC. It was pure nonsense for the ACC to have this deal last so long without a better way to renegotiate or to bring it up.
@@tarheel7406 why do all this including and excluding? Why not exclude Clemson and FSU because they are wanting to leave and will do so at some point? Feels very cherry picked
@@MercerKnowsBall the SMART money would see that the Big 12 will he having a new media deal that will beat the ACC (380M vs 240M). The football prestige of a conference so down that they allowed a undefeated acc team to NOT go to a playoff but brought a 12-1 Big 12 and 12-1 SEC team. A situation do down that FSU and Clemson are suing and UNC also wants to leave. The situation so bad they had to bring in football programs at a heavy discount and it is arguable only one had recent success, but those 3 still had pretty low (reported) viewership. A deal that will last so long that the others would have negotiated ANOTHER deal for even more money than the previous. Not a lot of smart moves to have this deal to drag them down.
In 2023 ACC was 7-5 vs SEC and 4-4 against Big 10. This is with underachieving VT, Miami, and UNC. If VT and Miami step up with their new found Qbs and coaches, the ACC is looking at a legit dangerous 4-some with FSU and Clemson. If UNC, NC State and Louisville have solid year, then I think the infield perception of the ACC could begin to change. Hopefully not too little too late.
They were also 1-4 against the Big 12 last year.
Yep. That’s why there is still more than just the P2. Fans aren’t going to stop going to games. The financial gap is wide with the SEC and Big 10 but it’s a moment in time. Big 12 schools and ACC schools still compete at the highest level
1 year period. Everyone and they momma knows it’s more than head to head. Look at chips, draft picks, top 10 teams on a yearly basis. I can go on. No valid reason the ACC isn’t 2nd best to the SEC.
And if you look at the all time record the SEC has won 64% of the games winning by an average of 6 points. The SEC is a better conference. But the talent gap between the two isn’t as wide as the financial gap.
@@xdgaming70no one’s saying the ACC is better than the SEC. Just that the perception that the SEC is always assumed better should be taken with a grain of salt. Just because they are great does not make them untouchable.
There are two names that are responsible for the state of the ACC. The first is John Swofford and the next is Jim Phillips. The day Phillips was hired I looked over his resume and immediately thought to myself this guy is nothing but John Swofford 2.0
True.
I think Swofford is all to blame. He was too quick to play favorites like the old guard ACC (read: UNC). Phillips inherited this mess.
@@chrisg4931 true.. not to mention the entire conference revolved around North Carolina and good old boys.
Why? If the ACC was competitive & popular, wouldn't the contract be a boon just by nature?
@@Greydawg because the people that were in charge were not being aggressive. When ESPN discovered they were dealing with some amateurs they took full advantage as they should have.
The ACC underachieves for the same reason its BCS winners underachieve. FSU and Miami have not won a playoff championship game. The same with the Big 12. BCS winners OU and Texas underachieved going 0-5 in the playoffs. They've traded on their brand names and went to the SEC.
Clemson had more playoff titles than the Entire Big 10 combined until last year…..
OU and Texas are sell outs and just wanted to be on Texas A&M jock strap because they were the reason aka OU and Texas became greedy with their own networks at the Big 12.
Recently Josh? Are you forgetting the 16 conference championships that Florida State has won?
Are you forgetting how they came into the league and absolutely dominated for over a decade?
Are you forgetting about the fact that FSU has brought more revenue into the ACC than any other program in the conference? Even in the down years eyeballs were on TV sets!
Sometimes you are just so casual and flippant with your analysis.
But hey I've been a subscriber for 3 or 4 years now so....
Are you forgetting that FSU agreed to join and tentpole ACC football? It agreed to carry.
Seems rather silly. Looking at just football and accounting for realignment thus far, the new ACC has won 5 national championships over the past 25 seasons. In a P5 world, that's exactly average and better than the new B1G, new BIG12, and old PAC. What's the expectation here?
Football Playoff Appearances, 1st Rd Wins, Nattys (per Wiki 2015-2024)
ACC: 8-4-2 (Includes 1 of 2 ND appearances)
B12: 2-1-0 (Excludes OK; includes Cincy)
B1G: 12-5-2 (Includes Oregon & Washington)
PAC: 0-0-0 (Excludes Oregon & Washington)
SEC: 17-10-6 (Includes OK & TEXAS)
BCS Runner Ups - Champs (2000 - 2014)
ACC: 4-3 (Includes VATECH, MIAMI, ND)
B12: 0-0 (Excludes NEB, OK, TX)
B1G: 5-2 (Includes NEB, USC, ORE)
PAC: 0-0 (Excludes USC, ORE)
SEC: 6-10 (Includes OK, TEX)
Outside of football, the ACC is the ONLY conference to have won a natty over the past ~10 years in football, men's basketball, and baseball (the sports I've researched). The ACC is at least top-level peer in D-Cup competition. Has the most upper right members.
Obvious VT homer here, but wouldn't you say that VT had to fight to get into the ACC when the Big East was being raided, yet turned out to carry the ACC in the early 2000s? The 2010s wasn't kind to VT because they were transitioning from the latter years of Frank Beamer and made a mistake with Fuente. Hopefully Pry can make them relevant again and get them back to the national conversation again.
None of the former BIG12 additions have met expectations measured from invite to today.
(BigEast) Somewhat true outside of Virginia Tech with 4 Titles (Only Pitt has 1) and that’s since the 50s VT joined ~2000. They sit behind UNC who has 5 in 70 yrs. Only Clemson, FSU, Maryland, Duke, NC State have more. Only Clemson and FSU has more since the Big East teams joined.
@@shoneel1309 facts
Technically mid and late 2000s. In the early 2000s, they were still in the Big East which i think had better teams than the ACC did. It was small so outside of Temple and Rutgers all those programs were good at the time
@@shoneel1309 VATECH had one responsibility. Remain reasonably competitive in football. As of today, did VATECH even meet its own expectations?
I can respect everything josh pate said
Does the emphasis on academics play a role in the ACC's performance relative to the football factory conferences? Conversely, within the ACC, is anyone looking at Clemson or FSU as bastions of academia? Further, Tech, Wake, Duke, and BC are relatively small schools with less $$ to throw at players and coaches.
But times are changing and academic standards are being "adjusted". Listening to some of these kids being interviewed is truly shocking. They can barely put a coherent sentence together in response to the questions. No, I couldn't stay on the field with any of them, but I don't think they could stay in the classroom with me and my peers. All pretense at academics has been dropped. Am I wrong?
"...is anyone looking at Clemson or FSU as bastions of academia?" In short, absolutely, yes.
They're both accredited, & Clemson I believe still has the highest graduation rate & average GPA in the era, for example.
Duke is very wealthy.
Who blows good money on college football?
@@Greydawg Merely being accredited is a pretty low bar, and having athletes with high graduation rates and GPA's says more about the standards applied than it does about the intellectual firepower of the students. Just sayin'.
@@randycarson9812 yes, so in other words it's a dead end & we're not speaking like adults, I made the mistake of assuming we were & I always give people the benefit of the doubt until they take it away. Cheers.
@@Greydawg FSU was a huge academic exception for the ACC. Its improvement has been a boon. CLEMSON is the 2nd worst academic school in the ACC. Within brand but fringe.
Clemson fan here. I can’t wait to leave this conference!
Big12
🍢
Why, though?
No other conference will give us, for example, *zero bye-week opponents* like we have again even this year when all teams have two (or more) bye-weeks. We even travel the least number of miles outright.
It's a tremendous & inescapably unique partnership in all of sports, & it deserves to be celebrated more than some extra money ever could be regardless of the actual cost of competition & loss of that special partnership.
Clemson was on ACC basketball money welfare before the mid 2010s...c'mon
Through the history of the ACC, CLEMSON very likely has been carried more than carried. Fans will be fans, but don't be foolish like FSU and its fans have been.
Lol this is such bs, The ACC was never known as a Football conference and you know that. The moves that were made to increase Basketball membership in the conference, which is kind of funny how the same Media shits on the conference in basketball but constantly performs at an high level in the post season. The blame starts with Tobacco road, Greedy nerds who couldn't get their way. Also the ACC has been improving but keep homering hard for the SEC that's about to cannibalize itself smh.
Sheer stupidity....
a) The ACC is considered a "basketball conference" because of its dominance in that sport. It still has won 5 nattys over the past 25 seasons, more than everyone else besides the SEC.
b) All ACC expansions from FSU to L'VILLE were football focused and pushed by the football schools over some degree of T-Road obection.
"Tobacco road, Greedy nerds who couldn't get their way." You got that right! South Carolina fan here. That's exactly why we left the ACC over half a century ago.
@@ronald3419 T-Road hasn't run the ACC for decades. BTW... Why did USCAR try to get invited back on several occasions?
UNC is not a large school with huge alumni base. I’ll agree they’ve underachieved. They also have a middle level athletic budget for the ACC. They have the most successful program overall. I agree, though, football must do better
a) UNC's undergrad enrollment and alumni base will likely not grow at the same rate as the state population. Selectivity will increase instead. This makes the alumni base increase in value per.
b) Nevertheless, UNC's extended fanbase should increase with state population.
c) The P2 consolidation will have a parity effect on football, especially for huge overall brands like a UNC.
PATE... You HINT at the problem but you MISS the Mark. It was the DIVISIONS, PATE.
You List 3 Teams from the Coastal and how they dropped the Ball. That whole Division was MID. And 1 had to WIN and be too Mid to compete in the ACC-CCG s the Atlantic.
The Atlantic was too OVERPOWERED because it had the 4 Best Program in it and 2 of those 4 Programs have had years where they were a NATIONAL CHAMPION Level Team.
So you had 1 OVERPOWERED team every year that dropped an L on the other 3 teams. Then those 3 each played and Dropped 3 more Ls.
So take a year Clemson was GREAT... they beat FSU, NC State and Louisville.
Then 1 of those 3 was 2nd Best but left out of the Conference Championship Game with 1 Loss and the other 2 now have 2 Losses and have to play each other WHERE 1 of them gets a 3rd Loss. Then the ACC-CCG is not a Marquee Matchup and the ACC-CCG Runner-up is an Afterthought for the New Years 6 game which would go to the Usually UNDESERVING Coastal Champs.
For some Evidence why it it that in the ONLY YEAR without Divisions BOTH of the Top 2 Teams in the ACC-CCG were former Atlantic Division schools.
Watch AGAIN this year as these 4 teams will ALL be in the mix for the ACC-CCG (and some Coastal Team will be in the mix too).
But you can bet that 2 of those 4 will be in the ACCC-CCG again this year at like 9 to 1 Odds and NOT a former Coastal Team.
The UNBALANCED DIVISIONS helped make sure FSU and Clemons had the Strength of Schedule to make the Playoffs.
But they HURT the ACC as a Whole and MOST non-ACC fans saw FSU or Clemson BEAT THE ISH out of the Coastal Champ and that is ALL they saw.
As a VT alum and Dad, you’re spot on. It’s too bad too, that it’s falling apart because VT and Miami (who both must be good for ACC legitimacy) are getting better! Honestly, both have not pulled their weight for 7 years (VT) and 20 years (Miami) respectively. But again, now both may be near the top again.
Also in the conversation is Louisville. Younger school than both Tech and Miami but they seem solid enough to make a good run from time to time.
Your a hater amd big 12 has no competition qith ACC dude. ACC can beat SEC and other conferences sir. Your biased like Paul at ESPN.
I could see 3 ACC teams making the cfp this year. 10-2 or 11-1 Clemson, FSU, Miami won't get left out over 9-3 teams.
People will soon realize that the ACC now is nowhere NEAR as bad as the Big12 without texas and oklahoma. If we're talking about playoff teams, there's like two in the big12 if that.
if the conference collapses, it better only be in football and not basketball
VT manhandled the ACC for 8 years when it joined in 2004. From 2004 - 2011, VT won the conference 4 times and played in the championship game 5/7 of the first 7 years. Younger fans don’t realize just how dominant they were when they joined the conference. I’d say VT, overall, has pulled their weight. Compare that to Miami’s results.
The ACC went through a true identity crisis. A basketball conference that said to themselves they wanted to be a football conference. They overstocked on programs. What no one seems to admit is that what works for 1 conference is not necessarily going to work for another conference.
Just because the SEC has a successful conference championship game doesn't mean every conference will have a successful conference championship game. Just the Big 10 goes to 14 or 18 teams doesn't mean every conference should go to 14 or 18 teams.
If I'm the ACC I would tell all member institutions that the leading institutions, the leading 5 or 6, will develop the standard or brand of ACC athletics. After that if any institution needs to drop out so be it. But it's clear to see the ACC really took on too much with the additions of Miami's, Pitt's, & Syracuses's athletics. They have brought no additional value to the conference. And bringing in Cal, Stanford & SMU doesn't look to be anything different for the foreseeable future.
a) It made sense to add MIAMI as a football tentpole. The problem occurred when MIAMI demanded BC/CUSE, political interference forced in VATECH, this resulted in also PITT. T-Road had objections, but FSU and the other "football" schools pushed them through. All have failed to meet reasonable expectations.
b) The ACC is treating UNC, CLEMSON and FSU as gone. CAL+2 are part of a managed decline to the BIG12's Tier 2 level.
Bunch of schools that cared more about basketball and maintaining high academic standards until it was too late.
FSU carried the ACC for so long (nearly 20 years) and got them as far as the ACC could go. Then Clemson carried the water for a while and it looks like, for now, it's Clemson and FSU carrying the load. Can and will anyone else stand up and carry the load.
Or will it implode before any other team can actually step up?
I don't know if I would count FSU carrying the ACC always. In the 2000s there was a good mix of great teams. VT one the ACC 3 times and was a top 10 team a lot of the time, GT had some good teams and an ACC title, there were even some BC teams with Matt Ryan. I feel like it's getting better though. I think Miami, VT, Louisville, and NC State are all showing that they're caring about football
They definitely regret adding WVU when they had the chance back in 2014, not that it would have particularly saved the conference, but WVU and Cincy in the ACC would've helped drive the football value up. something they are not getting from cal stanford smu. just too little too late sadly.
They had to grab those MARKETS to drive up the $$$ to later get the Brands to drive up the Football relevance.
There are no 2 Markets bigger than Texas and California. That expansion is worth about $10 Million per ACC member JUST on the ACC Network Payouts.
Without that extra ACCN Money you cannot FIX any of the other ACC Issues.
The GOR will hold enough of the ACC Intact to fix the Brand and $$$ Issues over the next 2 years.
@@MercerKnowsBall in the last round of realignment it was about markets, but today they use a different metric other than MARKETS, because what if no one cares about the team in said market enough to watch. It is completely about brand recognition and if people will watch those games or not. And I have a sad feeling that no one is going to watch Cal Wake forest or Stanford vs Boston college. The proof that I am correct is the fact that the SEC took Texas and Oklahoma, the SEC already had the Texas market with aTm so why would they get Texas? Because people will watch Texas vs fill in the blank SEC team. It’s tremendously valuable. 10 million per ACC member is a completely ridiculous figure that I seriously doubt has any validity.
Adding WVU would have triggered an earlier depletion.
@@tarheel7406 I wanna know what ur problem is with WVU, I see you all the time tarheel.
@@Niquilly A bad fit does not equate to having a problem. Frankly, the comments by WVU fans constantly prove the bad fit. WVU has relatively low base value and offers no high synergies to compensate. It has no blue or lite blue revenue sport, it's not strong in overall sports, and it's not a high academic school (due to its mission).
Per its fans, WVU wouldn't be interested in the ACC in the Tier 2 world, which proves it doesn't value academic association nor overall sports. Bad fit then and in the future.
But but I thought FSU played a competitive schedule last season 😮😥😂
When youre not allowed access and the teams they wanted to be better lost right away its no surprise the image looks bad! Acc has been the second best conference the last 20 years! Look at draft picks, nattys, nonconference top 25 wins teams in the top 60 in offense and defense! Numbers dont lie, people do!
The ACC will suck as long as they have garbage programs like GA tech
a) What conference doesn't have "garbage programs"?
b) GATECH has a national championship within the modern era.
c) No new BIG12 member has won same since BYU in the mid-80s.
d) The new BIG12 is now all Tier 1 rejects and G5 equivalents.
The ACC has a huge depth problem, once they beat each other up in the fall it’s obvious that they limp into bowl games
You are not taking to account the size of these universities. The ACC has a few institutions that are over 30K, on the other hand the SEC and Big10 have few under 30K. Why does this make difference, because they cant afford to spend a ton of money infrastructure that the current recruit is looking for.
Yes very true.
Perhaps ironically, nearly all of the ACC's most competitive programs have invested tremendously in their facilities since the era began.
The ACC has high Endowments on the academics side. Duke is not poor. Miami scaled back of football because attracting international students pays Millions a year in pure cash tuition. Football fanatics can't count money.
SEC & BIG all have huge state schools & as a result huge alumni bases. This translates to more fans & more donations. ACC is loaded with way too many small schools.
Josh with his passive aggressive hating
Basketball exists…
What a ridiculous premise, ..for every winner, guess what, there are losers....Why hasn't SEC held up their part of the bargain? Thats right. Half the SEC are loser teams, 7 teams haven't won an SEC Football championship since 1963!. Ditto for the B1G, what has Nebraska done since joining the B1G? B12? Same deal...other than KSU, BAYLOR, Texahoma, have anyone else really won Chips? IN fact, the conference where the wealth was spread the most now no longer exists, leading one to deduce that parity is a BAD thing, a really, really bad thing. Just what do you suppose will happen if Ohio State or Bama started being limited to one conference chip per decade? Do you think they may want to look elsewhere? ...and now you know why a dozen team playoff was created , it's so these teams can all group together and don't have to keep winning conference chips, they can just by-pass all that, and beat up on a G5 teams in a playoff( who still have to bust their ass for a conference chip) until that national finals game.
As a Miami, fan, it just so disappointing how Miami was supposed to carry this conference with FSU and ene=ed up being a perenial 7-5 program. The university dug a hole for itself with underinvestment. That may change this year, but it's too late for the ACC. You could have 5 legit 9+ win schools like Clemson, Miami, FSU, VT, Louisville , NC State and it won't matter. FSU and Clemson are gone regardless
One could argue that MIAMI is the top reason for the ACC's failure.
@@tarheel7406 I'd say so. It's sad the university stopped caring for so long.
@@miguelvillar2044 Much respect for owning it. One can still do that and then still do what's best going forward.
This is why I now disrespect FSU, which hasn't accepted responsibility. When it looked like UNC would pick the B1G, FSU was my preferred Florida school to come with, but I switched to MIAMI and would still prefer today. MIAMI has handled this realignment stress far better.
Sure feels that way
I was told years ago by an MIA alum that after the Shapiro scandal the administration said no more. They were so embarrassed that they starved the program of money.
I hate the ACC too but they beat the breaks off the SEC teams they played last year. SEC is top-heavy.
For the casuals who apparently have no understanding of how college football works, every season, every conference will be top heavy. Using a one year measurement for validation? Who does that? You’re trying to base your entire validation on just one year? Here’s what a true validation measurement really looks like, Georgia against the ACC since 2000, 29 wins and only 5 losses. 2 decades is a much better measurement to base any real validity.
@@jansonroberts2616 We tend to mostly agree and do so here. Nevertheless, the SEC isn't the expectation in football. Every conference fails by comparison. The point is that the ACC is far better than given credit. People tend to have an equity instinct. Blondes and jocks are supposed to be dumb. Basketball conferences aren't supposed to be good at football.
The reality is that the ACC is the most athletically balanced of all of the now P4s.
@@tarheel7406 I agree with you just fine with what you are saying but the gap is growing wider by the year. That gap is about to grow to chasmic proportions. There are a couple of monumental decisions coming in the near future that will affect all of college athletics. While you do make a great case for today’s ACC athletic balance, tomorrow has a completely new and different balance sheet being prepared for what is coming.
@@jansonroberts2616 This vid is about the here, now, and more recent history. If the gap was of no concern, USC/UCLA would not have moved and UNC wouldn't be trying to move.
Leaving the historically perfect home for a new but acceptable remains difficult even if by necessity.
At times FSU is A solid program? 😂😂😂
Not crooked enough.
Other than Clemson and FSU, only Georgia Tech has won a National Championship in the past 50+ years. Georgia Tech was a solid team until Jeff Collins showed up. Coach Key is turning the team around and has very good coaches now, including offensive coordinator Faulkner who came from UGA. GT almost always out performs pre-season expectations. And, last year, after dominating Louisville most of the game, GT would have been in the ACC championship game had they held on to beat Louisville. Not saying GT will win the conference, but they should be mentioned in the conversations of historically good teams. Heck, even as bad as GT had been in the past few years, they still always beat North Carolina.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you meant to say that only Clemson and FSU have won national titles for the ACC in the last 30 years because everyone should know that Miami has definitely won 3 in the last 50 years albeit never while being in the ACC.
Going to the ACC was the worse move Miami could have ever made because they are traditionally more of an SEC team. The only reasons why Miami has been garbage for the last 25 years is because the past presidents and athletic directors didn't know anything about nor cared about the athletics program.
After Dennis Erickson left that program went down the garbage shoot in a hand bag. Now, they're starting to pump more resources and monies into the athletics so only time will tell if it will pay off. But, I'll agree, other than FSU and Clemson, the ACC has been straight garbage.
@@malcolmjones27 Um, that is obvious. A team not in the ACC when they won a national championship would be counted as a ACC team winning the national championship. That is why I didn't note Georgia Tech's three other national championships, one of which was while GT was in the SEC. Miami was lucky to get into the ACC with the collapse of the Big East conference. It turned out to be a bad deal for the ACC because Miami has pretty much sucked since Coker left. They were pretty good last season...until they couldn't take a knee to win a game.
Spitting facts as usual Josh
OK, I'll accept your argument. So, what's the excuse for the B10? I've been following college football since 1964 and everything you said about the ACC is doubly true about the B10.
No.
Outside of Ohio State and Michigan you still have great programs in Penn State, USC, Oregon, Wisconsin, and Washington. Outside of Clemson and Florida State who does the ACC have?
@@toaagni6525lol penn st
@@toaagni6525 You cannot count FUTURE TEAMS in a discussion about the PAST.
Enough with the “national championship” garbage. Top to bottom success is the only indicator. Was the ACC better than the SEC in 2018 because they won the title? No! Is Auburn still an elite program because they won a title 13 years ago and quickly sunk into oblivion? Auburn is no better than Michigan St or Wisconsin
While the SEC is the best in football, it's overrated and benefits from proven bias. The SEC isn't the expectation, it's a goal.
As a comparison, the SEC is the worst in men's basketball measured by the Final Four over the past 10 years. It hasn't even won a FF game much less a championship. That's failing reasonable expectations.
All Cupcake Conference....
Those cupcakes had a winning record vs the almighty SEC last fall. Just saying…
This is why Mario is about to take Miami to new heights not seen since 00-05 era. He’s got something going on huge down there
Yes big terd. That is what he lays on the fifty every year miami and something big going on not in the same paragraph lord have mercy
lmaoooo sure
Fun fact: the ACC has more National Championships in the past eighteen seasons than the BIG 10 does
After August the ACC will have ZERO
And how many of those were outside of Clemson & FSU?
@@ninjadanny628 how many of those were outside of Urban Meyer and Jim Harbough?
LOL...why pick the past 18 seasons? Because it supports your argument? How about the most ever? Oh, that's Yale, followed by Alabama, Princeton, Notre Dame, Michigan. If you want to start at 1936 (the first AP poll), then it's Alabama, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Oklahoma, USC , then Miami, the first ACC team. It isn't until 4 teams later that Clemson shows up.
@@ninjadanny628 Well, if the measure is "exclude the 2 best teams", how many does the B1G have during that time outside of Ohio St and Michigan?
Preach it JP! Go Noles! (Out of the ACC)
Going to the big12🎉
@@jimmyjam5453 ok Jimmy from TH-cam says the BIG12. Guess that’s a lock ya’ll. Lateral downgrade for FSU.
If FSU and Clemson go to the sec they will go 9-3 or 8-4 every year and the fans would cry about that as well
7-5 some years
They
Yeah, because FSU beating LSU and Florida last year and Clemson taking two nattys from Bama was clearly a fluke. Maybe SEC fans would just cry about the competition finally getting tougher!
Lol no they wouldnt. Ask lsu
You said that about texas and oklahoma too! Time to find out…
Bruh stop the BS. Y'all start this shit every year.
Clemson and FSU come on to the SEC!
100% facts.
It has always been the Atlantic Cupcake Conference
Not true the ACC used to be considered one of the premier conferences, but over the last 20 years poor management and leadership has damaged the reputation of the conference irreparably
Except when the beat the SEC head to head.
@@dro2real836 it was poor marking by the ACC. And poor leadership at the top
@@jimmyjam5453yeah congrats Vandy South Carolina twice Texas A&M and Kentucky LOL
@@GoatedAtNFS you left out Florida and LSU.
It comes down to coaches. SEC has the best coaches.
This is not even close to the right answer.
@ijustwanttonap, what's the answer Columbo?
It's not that simple. It's easier to recruit in the SEC: they get more money from the schools and more talent is nearby, so coaches flock to the SEC.
@@Sammhm123 Money genius. Too many ACC teams spend very little on football. Also, the SEC gets double the money of what the ACC gets. The SEC has a much better overall NIL bank account. Half of the ACC only cares about bball. Money. Money. Money and I'll say it again, money.
Hopefully Clemson and FSU stay in the ACC
You’re so funny why ever what we want to do that?
Nobody wants FSU to STAY anymore. Once they PAY the EXIT Fee and PAY for their GOR back they will FORCED OUT if they don't go willingly.
Nah man FSU is outta there for sure, my money is gonna be on the B1G, calling that rn. Either way FSU has private equity already lined up, ready to pay the lunch tab and get ready for the dinner date.
We had a fairly successful stint in the ACC, winning over a dozen conference championships and the Natty. Now it’s time to move on…. Most of the other teams should be eyeing a way out themselves as the whole conference is about to collapse - though I will say that Miami would finally be in a position to dominate the conference without interference from Clemson or FSU.
@@dominicesposito7659 Only FOOLS that cannot READ a Financial Statement or a TV Contract think the ACC will Collapse.
But FSU is sure of it even thought it clearly cannot READ or it would know ACC Revenue is not a far from B1G Revenue as YOU think.
It is STILL a big enough GAP in the $$$ for you to go. But not enough for you to be such Aholes on your way out. Good Riddance to TRASH.
@@dominicesposito7659 if I’m not mistaken, all three of FSU‘s Naty’s have came in the ACC we joined in 92 got one in 93 got another one in 99 played for another one in 2000 and then of course the 2013 team brought one back. I believe Bobby Bowden played for about five of them, but you know those wide rights and wide left wouldn’t stop being a bugaboo or we would have more than three titles.
Especially North Carolina and Miami I don’t know how they can’t get top Recruits that have always been wild to me.
Miami isn’t having problems getting top recruits. There’s a disconnect between the recruiting they do and the results on the field.
@@dro2real836 Miami has been losing top Florida Recruits every since those sanctions hit in the early 2000s now they are starting to get top recruits. But no they have not been getting top players for decades plus.
@@DDB5 bro, where was Miami ranked at in high school recruiting last year? I know they were ranked higher than Florida State because Florida State had the number 12 recruiting class.
@@dro2real836 You can’t read can you?
@@DDB5 I can read just fine. I’m only pointing out what I’m pointing out because at this point the landscape of college football is totally different with and IL and the transfer portal, but not only that Miami have had some very good recruiting classes over the years, but there is a disconnect between what they bring in and the coaching hires they have made go back and look at how many coaches Miami has had since 2001 then get back to me and can we just have the conversation in a civil manner we can do without all the insults I’m an adult and I’m pretty sure you are as well so there’s no need for us to be nasty toward another not a debate for me. I thought it was a conversation.
24 big ten 24 sec and 24 big twelve
Big ten
Big Ten: East Coast
- Rutgers
- Maryland
- Virginia
- North Carolina
- Georgia Tech
- Florida State
Big Ten: Great Lakes
- Penn State
- Ohio State
- Michigan
- Michigan State
- Indiana
- Purdue
Big Ten: Riverlands
- Minnesota
- Wisconsin
- NorthWestern
- Illinois
- Iowa
- Nebraska
Big Ten: West Coast
- Washington
- Oregon
- Stanford
- Utah
- USC
- UCLA
SEC: ATLANTIC
- West Virginia
- Virginia Tech
- NC State
- Clemson
- South Carolina
- Miami
SEC: East Gulf
- Florida
- Georgia
- Alabama
- Auburn
- Tennessee
- Kentucky
SEC: Delta
- Ole Miss
- Miss State
- LSU
- Vanderbilt
- Arkansas
- Missouri
SEC: Southwest
- Texas
- Texas A&M
- Oklahoma
- Oklahoma State
- Baylor
- Texas Tech
Big 12
Boston College
Syracuse
Pitt
Louisville
Cincinnati
UConn
Duke
Wake Forest
UCF
USF
Memphis
Tulane
Houston
TCU
SMU
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Colorado
BYU
Arizona
Arizona State
Cal
San Diego State
Next 16
FRESNO STATE
BOISE STATE
EAST CAROLINA
UAB
APP STATE
COASTAL CAROLINA
UTSA
TEMPLE
MARSHALL
OHIO
TOLEDO
AIR FORCE
NAVY
ARMY
OREGON STATE
WASHINGTON STATE
There is no purpose for a 24-team Tier 2 BIG12