Hi Guys, I know this isn't the promised "4WD VS Winter tyre video", that video is still coming soon so be sure to subscribe... it's just too warm in Europe to publish it! Hopefully you'll enjoy this video covering the differences between 16", 17" and 18" winter tyres which should hopefully help your winter tyre shopping plans!
Do you know what size/width tyres are fitted when you take the cars out? If yes. I'd like to hear your thoughts if testing without knowing what's fitted. I wonder how much your expectations play a part.
Yes for this test I was aware, and the differences are so large when compared to normal tyre tests it would have been easy to notice. Some group testing for next year will be done blind :)
For winter, the smallest-diameter wheel your brakes will allow, with the narrowest, tallest sidewall tire the stock diameter or a touch taller: tall and skinny for winter road driving. Canadian winters have taught me that "pizza cutter" tires work far better than wide tires in the snow.
What he said. The proof is in the winter rally stages. Go check, they all have high walls, narrow wheels with strong rims. But all are narrow with high walls. You don’t want to drive on top if the snow, for traction you would want to cut through the snow so your tires touch the road surface. Only then will you have traction.
I remember my MK4 Golf with 175/80R14 tyres thing was a beast in the snow especially since it had no issues pulling away in 2nd gear even on an incline. Sadly its a struggle to even find this tyre size anymore since they don't make wheels that small and narrow anymore.
"I have no life outside of tyres." Almost sounded sad until I remembered how much you're drifting around with cars. Thanks for testing tyres man, it's very informative! :)
1. Smaller rim = cheaper tires 2. Smaller rim = more tire to pad pot holes and help avoid rim damage Those are two of the biggest factors to consider for winter tires. You should always go with the smallest rim size your car allows for your winter set; in my case, buying all new 16" wheels + Michelin X-Ice XI3s was cheaper than buying just the tires for my 18" rims. Additionally, having a whole other set (wheels+tires) makes swapping easy, and damage (to your wheels or rims) less likely to occur while swapping.
You're also a lot more likely to slide into something in the snow/ice and a steel rim with more tire sidewall can mean the difference between driving off and waiting for a tow or changing to your spare.
Quality of your channel feels higher than most 350k subs channels, let alone 35k. Be patient, with quality like that hitting 100k is just a matter of time :)
Thank you :) I try my best, and really enjoy the shooting and editing process (though this isn't my best edit, the next 3 videos should be much better!)
For people with 'ordinary' cars, the huge difference in cost between the higher profile tyres in combination with smaller wheels is, in my view, huge. This accounts for the purchase cost of both, but also better mpg (as the higher profile ones are far more likely to be narrower and thuse will have a lower rolling resistance) and, most particularly, this type of tyre lasts considerably longer even without sidewall damage, but their higher and softer sidewall mean that they are far less susceptable to damage from potholes, speed humps and debris on the road. I found that, going down from 16in to 15in (I bought all-season tyres [near to needing replacement anyway] and new alloys [mis-shapen as corroded and leading to the tyres leaking air] - just an example) saved me between 20% and 45% (depending on the new one chosen, compared to replacing the OEM alloys on a like-for-like basis) on the alloys alone (nearly £70 each), and the tyres (for the same tyres - CrossClimate+, not including fitting costs) over 20% (£15 each). I could easily tell the difference (improvement) in ride quality between my old 16in Dunlops (still reasonable) and the new 15in CC+s. For winter tyres and comparing 18in with17in and 16in (at the three actual sizes in the video and using the Goodyear Ultragrip 9 or closest Gen-1), I would say cost could play a huge part. Here's a comparison for the purchase cost of the tyres alone: 205/55 R16 H - £71 (no V rated tyre available*) 225/45 R17 V - £120 H - £105 225/40 R18 V - £120 (no H rated tyre available) From a cursory look, the price of steel rims varies about the same if you wanted to change from 18in to 17 or 16. I personally think that for 'Sporty' cars (not REAL sports cars), 17in rims and the 225/45 R17 tyre combo is more than good enough for ordinary (including spirited) road driving and are more comfortable, durable and cheaper to run than 18in ones, which to me are more about image than about performance. For example, the Toyota GT86 seems to get along quite fine with 17in rims, yet a far slower (but good handling, even on 16in rims) Mazda3 2.0 Sport gets 18in rims and 40 profile tyres as standard. Go figure. * (via Blackcircles) not a problem if that rating is acceptable by the manufacturer of the car and insurer. Many ordinary 'Sport' models are just more luxurious and aren't actually any/much quicker than lower models, e.g. Mazda3 Sport (not the 165), though check if the brakes can fit, as some cars DO have bigger brakes on Sport models even if the engines are essentially the same as on (say) the SE-L model below. I chose an H rated CC+ set of tyres as my older Mazda3's (previously 205/55 R16 V) top speed is over 10mph less than the H rating (130mph) and the 195/65 R15 is acceptible to both Mazda (its allowable on the car's tyre info plate on the door and in the manual) and my insurer. Saved myself £330 overall for the OEM wheel and 4x tyre replacements (1/3 less than at 16in). Barely any reduction, if at all in dry handling/performance as its a newer generation design of tyre. I can fully understand why someone with an actual higher performance car like the Golf GTi, etc might want to either stick with 18in winter tyres or at most only drop to 17in rims, especially if handling were compromised in the dry (but cold) or the brakes didn't fit.
Andrew, I completely agree with your point and I do with my cars very same "combinations/downsizing " last 15years, or so... Well said, and explained!👍 P.S. I live in Michigan with more than enough snow during the winter.
What I find telling is that (decent) cars (like mine) produced just 5-15 years ago were being fitted with 'standard' sized tyres (e.g. 195/65 R15 or 205/55 R16 for C Sector cars) and were considered then and even now to be (if well maintained) decent handling cars. A mid-2000s Golf (round about the same age as my Mazda3) parked on a nearby road to mine had the same 15in tyres fitted as mine, as, to be honest, MANY cars of that era. It's VERY noticeable now that, not content with going for the 'easy win' on the handling stakes of fitting lower profile tyres, I believe that car manufacturers are 'getting into bed' with the tyre manufacturers by also offering them in 'unusual' size combinations, perhaps to boost sales margins as they often cost 50%+ more than the more common ones, e.g. Mazda fitting 205/60 R16s as opposed to 205/55 R16. Have a look on a tyre fitter's website and you'll see how much expensive the first tyre costs than the second. Its the same across most makes now - very few will spec formely 'common' tyre sizes like the 205/55 R16. My Dad's basic Ford Fiesta is just as bad - it should be fitted with a common14in tyre, but has a 185/50 R15 tyre which is MORE EXPENSIVE than my car's OEMs and far more than the 15in ones I now have fitted. I could understand it if his car was a Sporty model, but its not. A money-making wheeze if ever if heard (IMHO). I think you guys in North America are much more wise to car/tyre manufacturers' money-making schemes than we are in the UK - we often (as I often see when I have my car serviced at the main dealer) grumble about the huge bills (I saw one guy when my car was having its tyres fitted doing so about paying £185 to have his damaged 18in tyre replaced on his gen-3 Mazda3 - round about the same price as three tyres [fitted] on my 12yo model) but still pay the extortionate prices. We Brits hate to complain (stiff upper lip and all that) - probably why we're so good at queuing.
I'll admit the Mazda 205/60 R16 is an unusual move, but I promise I've never heard of anything like that actually going on and I probably would have. Higher sidewalls allow for more comfort and lower rolling resistance so it might have been a choice for the CO2 banding. The american market buys way more premium tyres than we do. Of all of Europe we're known as the dumping ground for cheap budget s**t :(
I live in Canada and I think the key to driving in winter is to slow down and give yourself more braking distance. Sometimes if there is 40cm of heavy snow on the highway you may only travel at 60km/h. Also certain winter tires perform worse on dry roads vs. snow/ice/wet. So you should pick a tire based on your climate. Where I live it gets cold and the snow turns to ice as it can be -30 or -40. So I use Nokian studded tires which I find work really well on my Honda Civic.
His analysis was informative. Winter driving conditions in Canada vary with more extremes though. Northeastern Ontario, in particular, can see driving conditions that include roads covered with deep slush. A small amount of slush interfere with the ability of the sypes to maintain contact with the road surface. It can cause hydroplaning. Deep slush offers rolling resistance and also affects the likelihood of hydroplaning with one added complication. Vehicles traveling on deeper slush-covered roads displace the slush as the trires roll through it. This throws slush to either side of each tire and eventually a significant piling of slush about 8.inches apart, creating troughs through which the tires travel. You will have traction in these "ruts" then the cars stray and "whoops" your tires on one side face significant deceleration as hits the slush provide sudden rolling resistance on one. The uneven tracks tends to pull your vehicle to on side. The slush can freeze solid and all of a sudden the road can become very bumpy. Skinnier tires may cut through the slush more efficiently but they are horrible on frozen solid slush, causing road surfaces with uneven traction
nice test, I have had winter tires from continental in the past and the difference when it gets cold is fenomenal vs summer tires. After both summer and winter sets got used up I pondered and chose the Michelin CC because it would spare me the hassle of swapping out tires two times a year, and it would also mean that i get to buy newer tires more often. I had the winter / summer set for 8 years and they were performing poorly even though they still had a lot of "meat" on them. So for people who do few miles and with these new european winters which are super short in most countries I would definitely recomend the all season. It doesn't sacrifice that much in the summer and it gets you through those 3 weeks of snow fall a year.
I work at a tire shop. all your information is very educational and helps me to understand tires more. Most people do not realize how much tires can effect a car all the way around. Id love to see a video of good vs cheap snow tires if you're able to. I'd love to be able to educate people
Well, in Germany we mostly check the ADAC tests, but they only post the summaries of the tests in youtube. It is also true that ADAC is not a purely tyre-testing channel, so I really appreciate the length, the detail, and the explanation you give, and i would follow your channel twice if i could :-)
The Goodyear Ultragrip is my winter tyre of choice and I use 205/55x16 for the winter and 225/45x17 Goodyear Efficient Grip Performance for summer. In UK we don't get snow very often but from October to April the rural roads are greasy with mud and the winter tyre excels in those conditions. NOTE the Goodyear Ultragrip is a MUD and snow tyre, which is often forgotten. A taller sidewall tyre helps the tread to conform to the road surface giving the best grip on normal UK roads that are not the billiard table smooth surfaces of the test track.
True story, a few years ago, we had quite some snow here in Lyon (France), I was driving my 325is e30 to work, with some old Michelin Alpin, old school winter tire with agressive thread pattern in 175/70r14 pizza cutter size. On the highway, I was cruising in 5th gear on the left lane, the snow was wet and heavy, but the car felt very safe, stable and as always being smooth with inputs and decontracted behind the wheel is important. A dude which was convicted that his new X5 with 4 wheels as wide as my car alone could do better because Xdrive bro, moved behind me. I can tell you that I saw the headlight beam in the rear view miror starting to float over the lane pretty badly, and the guy had no other choice than to go back to the middle lane. I carried on in my lane like no big deal. My personnal preference is to give away a bit of dry performance in favor of comfort and wet + snow performance in winter. I can understand that some people don't want the steel rim / fat tire in winter and keep their gigantic alloys, at least it's better than nothing but I don't really see the point (storage, yeah why not). Can't wait to see that 4wd vs winter video, I tried my A6 Quattro on worned out Yokohamas snow tires (16") vs budget summer tires on snow (though the snow was over but surprise), I have to say that I expected a bigger difference but permanent awd, snow tires even worned out, it's cheating :D, stable as a freight train, takes off the line like it's just wet, it brakes nice even if the car is 2000kg, so safe in those conditions ! Amazing
Great story! My ex girlfriend used to drive a Ford KA and I'd put it on 165 winters every year. It was super fun going out and helping all the big suvs get moving again as they span all 4 of their massively wide summer tyres.
@@chrisredfield3240 yes the brakes brake on all 4 wheels, but don't forget engine braking, on permanent all wheel drive like my A4 quattro when you back of the throttle all 4 wheels brake making it really stable.
@@TC-V8 fwd is bad letting the engine slow you down as you loose the front end. With rwd it pulls you strait under engine braking. To be honest i don't know what 4wd does. If you have to do real slowing down i guess they don't have much more to offer. Least the getting off the line vs. Slowing down is more balanced without 4wd
Nice test. One thing you didn’t mention is brake size, with a BMW 325i for example you can go down to a 16” - but for a 330i you’re looking at minimum 17”.
A 16-inch wheel is best but that depends on the Offset (ET#) as not all 16-inch will clear caliper/brake assembly. Example: 18x8 ET50, you should try to keep the Offset close to the original wheel offset number such as 48 or 45 Offset as going to 42 Offset may not work. Therefore, if a 16-inch does not fit get a 17-inch. Another thing is you can only go 2 wheel sizes up or down from 18-inch being the smallest 16-inch and largest 20-inch wheel. If you have 18-inch alloy wheels, use caution because hitting a pothole or the curb during the winter season may damage your alloy wheel or rupture the tire. Proper storage of winter/snow tires (any and all tires) after the winter season will prevent dry rot and flat spots so they will be usable for the next season. Temperature variables will affect inflation so check your tire PSI at least once a month. Note: this gentleman 7 years ago (3 years prior to this video) did a 17,18, and 19-inch comparison.
From NYC. Great reviews, tests and tutorial. I watched it in full, because I’m trying to smooth out a GT on 20 inchers, which I would do by going to 18 inch. It would date the look a bit - but since I’m not tracking the car, (and I haven’t had a ticket in 25 years), daily comfort is paramount. I wanted both objective and subjective thoughts on how the handling would be affected. And I am subscribed! Thanks!
Nice video and as someone living in the alps with a 2 wheel drive car I can endorse just how good winter tyres are compared with summer tyres when it is cold and slippery - almost negates the need for a 4wd. I went the route of getting 205/16 60 winter instead of the 215/55 17 summer tyres. They don't handle quite as sharply but I really appreciate the extra comfort and they are not too noisy. As for the test, the one thing missing is the ability to hill start on a snow covered slope. This is my number one concern when driving in snow as I don't want to have to put on the snow chains.
The traction between the three sizes was pretty much the same so... holy smoke I forgot to put the acceleration data in the video... oh no i didn't phew. 2:03 :)
Great points. I lived in the Alps and totally agree. Standing starts on slopes are a common issue, I hate electronic handbrakes for snow driving too... winter tyres are a revelation, I only had to use chains two or three times in 6 months when there was sheet ice.
The comparison of handling and grip is interesting among the three snow tires, due to their contact patch size. It is the opposite of the relationship between bias plies and radial summer type tires, where contact patches are shaped differently, the bias plies being longer whereas the radial tires have wider patch contact. Radial tires perform better, as their patches are larger and wider; thus, they gain a performance advantage. However, it seems that there is an advantage to having a tire with a longer, more bias ply type contact patch that will cut through the snow in order to grip a road surface better. Another advantage is The smaller the wheel and tire size, the cheaper the tire will be, which is also something to be considered.
Before even watching this... the narrower 16" with the higher sidewalls should win... Or I could be corrected... Thoroughly enjoying your comprehensive work! Keep up, and I hope you and your channel get the recognition you deserve. Yep, wintry, snow conditions and nasty roads, smaller size, narrower tire.
Great video again! Similar experience on my side after switching from 16" crossclimate (205/55-16, as initially my standard size wasn't available) to the standard 215/45-17. Much more steering feel and control. Feels more stable and safe on highway due to the different width and wall height ratio (and load rating is more optimal). Unfortunately also higher fuel consumption, a bit more than I expected. You guys are my standard reference for tyre info. Keep up the good work.
10:30 for a balance view. With so many garages selling part worns for £10 you really have to worry about what is coming towards you when it is wet, snowy or icy. Thanks for the wealth of information on you channel and the high production standards.
I threw 205/50R17 winter tires on my GTI because the diameter was the same as the 225/40R18s it came with. It allowed me to have that narrower tire for traction and higher sidewall for comfort.
I just go with stock 15 inch alloys with hideously tall sidewall 195/65 tire for winter to absorb all the potholes and curbs I'm inevitably going to hit driving through heavy rain in the dark and leave fancy aftermarket r17 215/40 for summer
I had a Golf just like the one in the video, 2.0 tdi 150ps 17" wheels and had the tyres swapped to Michelin Alpin 5's in winter - it was so good subjectively, only very occasional drives on snow heavily and frosted icy slippery roads were okay, they were very good in the wet and seemed impossible to aquaplane even hitting significant standing water on the motorway. Generally the car still handled very well with them. Now driving a 250ps rear wheel drive BMW 230i that has 18" wheels and brakes that mean only certain 17" wheels might fit. Have a set of 18" winter wheels with 225 40 Michelin Pilot sport Alpines fitted, on this car with these tyres the car seems to loose some of it's planted feel and I perceive a reduction in ultimate grip, and very wet conditions don't feel quite as secure as in the golf but it does retain very good handling balance and control-ability. I have driven in proper snow in the countryside where I live and it didn't get stuck but felt it might still struggle with steeper hills.
Sir,you're one of the best revieuwers i've ever seen on YT ..I wish there was also a technical revieuwer/investigator like you but with "car-springs and shock-absorbers"..thanx alot.
I'd vote for smaller diameter winter wheels too: extra sidewall for the winter potholes and MUCH, MUCH cheaper. Just remember to check that your car can take the smaller sizes and it isn't always obvious!! I found a VERY cheap set of 17" alloys off the same year Audi A6 "Ultra" - except this was the bottom end TDI and mine was top end petrol version. Turns out that you can't fit 17's to the high-end A6's as their front brakes are ~340mm and 17" wheels won't fit around the brake calipers - even the 18's only have a few mm clearance!
Both our WRX STI and Audi A4 Avant run 18” rims in summer and 17” in winter. Both cars have not had any issues in snow and ice with winter tyres. Living in the Highlands of Scotland we run winter tyres from the end of October until mid May.
I consider some different aspects when choosing a wheel size, and because of that I always try to get a smaller wheel. I've had a few mishaps in the snow due to visibility and road conditions. Curbs, ice chunks, road debris, potholes, etc. Here in Ohio it snows enough to hide these obstacles so a big concern is the likelihood of damaging your wheels but smacking into something you can't see. Even traversing a snow-covered parking lot could result in bumping a curb or parking block, even running them completely over. It's pretty common, actually, and these scenarios don't have anything to do with traction. The higher-profile tires on smaller wheels are much less likely to get damaged by hidden obstacles. I recall that the snow tires on my old RX-7 were 205/70-15, factory-sized balloon tires, and all the winter tire brands I used managed to withstand several impacts over the nine years I drove the car. Combine that with steel wheels, and any wheel damage that does occur can be fixed with a hammer. Because of that I'd say a higher-profile winter tire on a smaller wheel is almost always the safer, more reliable choice.
Cold snow provides very good traction. In moderate snow, taller skinnier tires work better (more sidewall to flex and more weight on the contact patch). In deep snow tall sidewalls and a large contact patch work better (more flotation and less chance of high centering). In deep snow ground clearance is key. I run 37x13.5x18 on a 7500 lb 4wd truck and it plows through deep snow like it isn't even there.
I feel like you tend to find more winter/offroad options in smaller wheel sizes (15/16) than the larger sizes (17+), and that is worth taking into consideration. Larger wheels/low profile tires are more attributed to sporty driving, so you will find more summer/sport options in those sizes than winter/ice options.
Narrower tyres with a deeper sidewall every time. I have an old Passat Estate workhorse and with winter tyres (195/65x15) it has more grip than my 2003 X5 (255 and 295 x 19 tyres)
I'm also a massive tyre nerd, they are such critical things and I agonise over buying them. Having a big 4x4 for light offroad and towing makes for additional factors when choosing tyres. I only recently found out that the tyres on the car were 8 years old and had dried up providing no grip in the wet. I would suggest covering tyre age and condition, wear patterns in this channel, I would love to get involved in making content!
With bigger wheels on cars as standard these days - would love to see 18 vs 19 vs 20 winter performance. Is it true that a 20"+ wheel just pretty much sucks in winter conditions?
I have an Audi TT 8s (MK3). The recommended winter size is R17 225/50. However due to many reasons, I just used the same R19 245/35 size of tire that I use for summer. The aquaplaning and the drivability were down right dangerous. Also depends on your car. If you have a heavy car, it will be easier to counteract larger rim/wider tire.
Hey there! First of all, great video as always. :) I found it really interesting, because I changed from 16 to 17 inch winter tyres couple of weeks ago. I bought brand new summer rims and tires and I didn't want to sell my old original summer rims. Therefore I bought Nokian WR 4D in 225/45/17 for them. So far, I can say that I didn't expect them to be so confortable. I thought, I will lose on comfort compared to my old 16 inch winter tires. Maybe the fact, that they are brand new and have almost 9mm soft thread dept plays a big role. I am looking forward to testing them in snow conditions. On the bad side was the price difference of almost 35-40 euros pro tire between 205/55/16 and 225/25/17. After all, it all depands what your motives are. If You don't want to spend more, You stay with smaller rims and tires, which do the same work, if not better in snow conditions and for comfort. But as I said, I don't think You would loose a lot on comfort. It's just the protection of potholes, which is suffering. I live in Germany and have no problems of this kind. But I come originally from Bulgaria, where I busted my 16 inch winter tire last winter. Therefore it's something to keep in mind. haha PS: I would very much like, If you give your professional opinion of my choice of winter tyres (Nokian WR 4D MFS). They scored excellent results, but what is the reality like? :)
I really like the WRD4, in fact they make my top winter tyre list in the winter tyre video (should be out next week!) They're very strong in the snow, but not quite as good as the best in the wet.
@@tyrereviews Thank you very much for your reply! I asked you previously for your opinion about my summer tires and you replied back then too. Cheers :)
Another thing to consider is brake rotor size. My Optima SX comes with 18" wheels and I cannot physically fit a 16" wheel over the oversized rotors. So I have no choice but to go with 17. Using Blizzaks in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. I know snow and ice driving... ;)
My 19 inch tires, that are Bridgestone blizzaks, powered by a 365 horsepower engine with 400 foot pounds of torque, in all-wheel drive, makes for a very fun winter up in Northern Canada, we already have a foot of snow up here and this morning it was - 23 degrees Celsius
Had my new Continental TS860's on 16" steel rims fitted today. Then I had to brave the shed, clear out the crap and spiders to fit the 17" alloys with Goodyear F3's get to spend the winter. Keep up the great reviews! Thanks
I believe the 16 is quieter due to the smaller contact patch on the road and wheel width. The wheel size should not negate more road noise. The tire sidewall effects the NVH the most over the wheel size.
Lower width and higher profile winter tire should help in deep snow (3+ inches ?). Thinner tire should cut snow better (kind of similar to hydroplaning results) and flexing sidewall of higher profile tire should provide better traction on the uneven pavement which is likely to encounter under deep snow.
@RichardADastrdly. Agreed. Wider tire changes shape of contact patch but doesn't necessary increase size. It would be interesting to see an ice performance test of the same model tire but different width.
More weight does help to get car going. Many limo drivers carried sand bags in the trunk of their rear wheel drive cars to help with traction during winter. On the negative side, extra weight may increase stopping distance.
@@oz7564 It all depends on what pressures they were running. Two tyres with the same static load, same sidewall stiffness and same pressure will have the same contact area, so the wider you go the shorter the contact patch.
Here in Canada some provinces don't allow studded tires. We have 2 Hondas, one with Good Year all season tires on a Honda CRV, never had a problem in winter which can be cold dropping to -30C. Our Honda Civic has all season Good Year tires and for winter Michelin Ice tires, it out brakes the CRV in snow or ice.
For driving in snow the tyre to fit from Goodyear is actually Goodyear Ultragrip Ice 2. It superceeds the grip in snow compared to "southern" wintertyres like Performance Gen 1. For the Golf, Octavia you can go one size up and actually fit 205/60R16, 225/50R17 and 225/45R18. It has just a bit more sidewall providing more comfort.
I like using 16s, plenty of tire choices along with the wider aspect ratio of the sidewall really helps when you hit something unexpected in deeper snow. But really any snow tire is going to be a big improvement in snow and on ice compared to any all season.
If you use your vehicle to commute in the snow. I recommend smaller rims and taller side walls. Snowy roads will be icy and the road surface will be rugged. Taller side wall will be more comfortable and that will lead to more control on poor road conditions. Also you should be driving according to road conditions anyway. With the taller side walls and smaller rims, you have less chances of snow and ice build up on the inside of the rim. If it's too much build up then your wheels will be off balance if you ever get up to highway speeds on a highway.
Surely you have to consider the OEM on any car ie wheel and tire size. I live in CANADA so we get lots of deep snow and ice here. Rule of thumb narrower tires are recommended for best results on snow and ice.
Driving in Holland, Summertyres: 215/40R17 (GY Eagle F1 Asymmetric 6 €125/tyre) and for cold season: All seasons 185/60R15 (GY Vector 4seasons gen-3 €75/tyre)
I'm using 16" 215/65 studded winter tyres during winter and 19" 245/45 front and 275/40 back tyres during summer, both sets are on alloys. Why I use studded tyres during winter is because the roads on which I'm driving are usually covered by a lot of wet, salty ice and sludge.
Great Info. I run a saab, during the summer with 17" and winter with 16" works well. And as the profile on the 16" is higher the speedo is the same. You didn't mention this on your tests.
Really interesting presentation. When buying winter tyres in the past, I have always matched the tyre size to that of the tyres/wheels originally fitted to my car. I was under the impression that the speedometer had been synchronised with the original wheel tyre combination during production.
Good topic and almost fair appraisal: You neglected the difference in handling likely to be felt by the 16 inch mounted on steel rims. These are likely to be heavier and flex more. Although I do concede that 205/55 tyres will flex plenty in their own sidewalls...
My wife came off the road in the last snow, was thinking of getting the Michelin summer biased all season tyre for country roads in the Midlands this winter. She currently has the up with the standard eco tyres. Seem sensible?
The problem with the lower profile tyres is that although they do give better grip through the corners. At the limit they give very little warning and tend to give up suddenly. I think in the poor weather we get in winter I’d rather feel that side wall flex as a warning before the understeer worsens. Personal preference I know.
I wonder… for the subjective ratings, did you judge them in a blind test, or did you know which tire was on? As much as I trust your judgement, the mind is a fickle, fickle thing, and even the most experienced people let prejudice taint their opinion almost everywhere, everytime, without any bad intention and even when knowing about possible bias. it's just something we humans can't switch off. So if it wasn't a blind test, it would be cool if you could do that next time, have somebody guide you into the car while you're blindfolded (etc.), and make your judgement that way. Double blind would be best, but I suppose that would be hard in this case.
So I think there is an advantage to the tyres with the bigger sidewall that isn’t mentioned here. I specced my e class with the smallest wheels possible and I’m running 225/55 r17 tyres. I had some winter sport 5 tyres on last winter and I hit a deep pothole - there was a loud bang and I thought I had probably ruined the tyre/wheel/suspension. I checked it and there was no damage, got a garage to check suspension/wheel and it was all good. The bigger sidewall gives you protection against massive potholes like we get here in the U.K. I used to have a car with 19” wheels, 255/35 tyres and blew up 3 of them on relatively small potholes.
Even though I live in a tropical country, winter tires interest me a lot and I frequently find myself looking at Blizzaks. This video is incredibly good. The cinematics are amazing, plus all the information!
Two things you don't mention. First of all: the 16 inch is the cheapest, so go for a 16 inch premiumtyre instead of a 18 inch budget tyre is a good option. Secondly, it is clever to priority snow and wet on wintertyres. So I go for 16 inch.
Narrow tires for winter work is thought as better to dig down to pavement. The real benefit is not that it can dig down but that there is just more pressure per square inch. Which pushes the benefits of the winter formulation of the rubber into the surface for best deformation and grip. Plus the smaller rim the tire fits to makes for cheaper tires and cheaper rims. I recently bought a set of rims and winter tires. Original wheels were 215/45R17 on aluminums and I bought 205/55R16 on steelies. I was able to save $200 on my rims and $350 on my tires for 1%-2% better performance. I call that a deal worth researching to get.
Sounds like cost would be the biggest factor for most since their performance was so close together. I bet the 16” would be quite a bit less expensive versus either 17 or 18. This coincides with my belief to get the smallest wheel which fits over your brakes, whether that’s for track duty, daily driving or winter use.
In mid 90s I run 155/75r13 Hakka's on Civic instead of 175/65r14 - cheaper, never problems with being stuck in deep snow, no bend rims, and I like to keep it that way - the smallest size rim that I can fit.
A little different application, I run 255/80-17 All Terrains in summer on my Jeep Grand Cherokee and 235/85-16 Nokian Rotiiva AT in winter. The tall "pie cutter" winter tires turn my rig into a snowmobile in winter.
it would be interesting to see some SUV tyres comparisons since 50% of cars now sold are SUVs, I understand that SUV drivers may not care about grip or handling that much, but there is surprisingly little information about SUV tyres in general. Great video!!
I find it interesting to see the noise levels. The 205/55/16 is the most quiet in this test, however according to the EU-tire label it produces 71db, while the 225/45/17 produces 70db and the 225/40/18 makes 71db.
No discussion of tyre pressure nor plowed vs deep snow nor the air temperature, at just below freezing (more common in UK) vs well below freezing (as in northern Finland) different tyres would perform differently as the sidewall rubber would be stiffer at colder temperatures.
Tyre pressures are all VW recommended for the Golf. If you can find a way of letting me test winter tyres in snow and ice at UK temperatures you'll be a very rich man :)
@@tyrereviews Those conditions happen all the time in the mid-atlantic and north eastern regions of the US. Airing down in deep snow can help you float, but will make little difference in the conditions shown on the video.
I run 205/55R16 Michelin PS4 in summer and 195/65R15 Michelin XIN4 in winter on my Golf VI. First, the heavier 17" or even 18" wheels feel too sluggish with an anemic 102 BHP engine. Second, for the price of quite average 17"/18" tires, I can get the top of the line tires in 16". And 15" are even cheaper. Not to mention price difference for disks, given they are manufactured by a reputable brand (I still don't thrust "replicas"). As for the sharper steering, I just go for a higher load rating of around 95/97 instead of factory recommended 91. This gives a minor tire price and noise penalty, but gives all the steering and durability advantages of a stiffer sidewall.
Put on 18" on my Porsche just today. Seems like I got it somewhat right. Live in Sweden but won't really drive the Porsche when it is a lot of snow. Porsche recommends Continental for my car though so thats that...
Hi Guys, I know this isn't the promised "4WD VS Winter tyre video", that video is still coming soon so be sure to subscribe... it's just too warm in Europe to publish it! Hopefully you'll enjoy this video covering the differences between 16", 17" and 18" winter tyres which should hopefully help your winter tyre shopping plans!
Do you know what size/width tyres are fitted when you take the cars out? If yes. I'd like to hear your thoughts if testing without knowing what's fitted. I wonder how much your expectations play a part.
Yes for this test I was aware, and the differences are so large when compared to normal tyre tests it would have been easy to notice. Some group testing for next year will be done blind :)
Thanks. Enjoy your vids. Good work.
We all know the result... Winter tire open diff car will crush the 4x4 locked car on summer tires... I saw a video from some other TH-camr ;)
You're not wrong, hopefully the video will be an entertaining watch as we do some fun tests!
For winter, the smallest-diameter wheel your brakes will allow, with the narrowest, tallest sidewall tire the stock diameter or a touch taller: tall and skinny for winter road driving.
Canadian winters have taught me that "pizza cutter" tires work far better than wide tires in the snow.
What he said. The proof is in the winter rally stages. Go check, they all have high walls, narrow wheels with strong rims. But all are narrow with high walls.
You don’t want to drive on top if the snow, for traction you would want to cut through the snow so your tires touch the road surface. Only then will you have traction.
I remember my MK4 Golf with 175/80R14 tyres thing was a beast in the snow especially since it had no issues pulling away in 2nd gear even on an incline. Sadly its a struggle to even find this tyre size anymore since they don't make wheels that small and narrow anymore.
Don't forget that the 18'' is 50% more expensive than the 16''
I totally forgot costs :(
We get huge potholes every winter in Canada. 18" summer/16" winter works well for me and my gti.
They're also 50% better looking ;)
Kitsunemimi who cares about rims in the winter when the whole car is muddy
16" would look so stupid on my pickup😂, got 22" Winter, 24" Summer
1:58 snow testing
4:20 wet testing
5:58 dry testing
Thanks bruh
Thank you!
Thnx💙
Thks.
"I have no life outside of tyres." Almost sounded sad until I remembered how much you're drifting around with cars. Thanks for testing tyres man, it's very informative! :)
1. Smaller rim = cheaper tires
2. Smaller rim = more tire to pad pot holes and help avoid rim damage
Those are two of the biggest factors to consider for winter tires. You should always go with the smallest rim size your car allows for your winter set; in my case, buying all new 16" wheels + Michelin X-Ice XI3s was cheaper than buying just the tires for my 18" rims.
Additionally, having a whole other set (wheels+tires) makes swapping easy, and damage (to your wheels or rims) less likely to occur while swapping.
As long as you don't mind the steel look and can fit them over your brakes, I agree :)
You're also a lot more likely to slide into something in the snow/ice and a steel rim with more tire sidewall can mean the difference between driving off and waiting for a tow or changing to your spare.
Wider tyre less traction in winter ;)
Here in finland we have winter tyres on for about 5-6 months.. i prefer them to not look like crap :D
@@Anomoomin thats about the time anyways even tho there is no snow, well 4-5 then.
Quality of your channel feels higher than most 350k subs channels, let alone 35k. Be patient, with quality like that hitting 100k is just a matter of time :)
Thank you :) I try my best, and really enjoy the shooting and editing process (though this isn't my best edit, the next 3 videos should be much better!)
It affects a lot when you upload like 60 videos in 7 years, or 60 videos in 1 year. Without regular uploads peoples just wont sub.
well that's mainly because this is more a paid for advert than it is an independent making a video for fun :D
@@slayyou I wish I got paid to make these videos :(
Really liked this video, so informative. Was just trying to decide between these same (albeit 215 width 17's) sizes for my a3 for snow tires.
Very important to remember tire prices as well, a set of 18" 225 winter tires costs twice as much as a 205 16" set.
Fr fr
Winter is also the time for potholes to start appearing, an 18 inch tyre will burst easily while the 16 inch one will be far more likely to survive.
For people with 'ordinary' cars, the huge difference in cost between the higher profile tyres in combination with smaller wheels is, in my view, huge. This accounts for the purchase cost of both, but also better mpg (as the higher profile ones are far more likely to be narrower and thuse will have a lower rolling resistance) and, most particularly, this type of tyre lasts considerably longer even without sidewall damage, but their higher and softer sidewall mean that they are far less susceptable to damage from potholes, speed humps and debris on the road.
I found that, going down from 16in to 15in (I bought all-season tyres [near to needing replacement anyway] and new alloys [mis-shapen as corroded and leading to the tyres leaking air] - just an example) saved me between 20% and 45% (depending on the new one chosen, compared to replacing the OEM alloys on a like-for-like basis) on the alloys alone (nearly £70 each), and the tyres (for the same tyres - CrossClimate+, not including fitting costs) over 20% (£15 each). I could easily tell the difference (improvement) in ride quality between my old 16in Dunlops (still reasonable) and the new 15in CC+s.
For winter tyres and comparing 18in with17in and 16in (at the three actual sizes in the video and using the Goodyear Ultragrip 9 or closest Gen-1), I would say cost could play a huge part. Here's a comparison for the purchase cost of the tyres alone:
205/55 R16 H - £71 (no V rated tyre available*)
225/45 R17 V - £120 H - £105
225/40 R18 V - £120 (no H rated tyre available)
From a cursory look, the price of steel rims varies about the same if you wanted to change from 18in to 17 or 16. I personally think that for 'Sporty' cars (not REAL sports cars), 17in rims and the 225/45 R17 tyre combo is more than good enough for ordinary (including spirited) road driving and are more comfortable, durable and cheaper to run than 18in ones, which to me are more about image than about performance. For example, the Toyota GT86 seems to get along quite fine with 17in rims, yet a far slower (but good handling, even on 16in rims) Mazda3 2.0 Sport gets 18in rims and 40 profile tyres as standard. Go figure.
* (via Blackcircles) not a problem if that rating is acceptable by the manufacturer of the car and insurer. Many ordinary 'Sport' models are just more luxurious and aren't actually any/much quicker than lower models, e.g. Mazda3 Sport (not the 165), though check if the brakes can fit, as some cars DO have bigger brakes on Sport models even if the engines are essentially the same as on (say) the SE-L model below. I chose an H rated CC+ set of tyres as my older Mazda3's (previously 205/55 R16 V) top speed is over 10mph less than the H rating (130mph) and the 195/65 R15 is acceptible to both Mazda (its allowable on the car's tyre info plate on the door and in the manual) and my insurer. Saved myself £330 overall for the OEM wheel and 4x tyre replacements (1/3 less than at 16in). Barely any reduction, if at all in dry handling/performance as its a newer generation design of tyre.
I can fully understand why someone with an actual higher performance car like the Golf GTi, etc might want to either stick with 18in winter tyres or at most only drop to 17in rims, especially if handling were compromised in the dry (but cold) or the brakes didn't fit.
Great comment, not much I can add. I certainly should have covered cost in the video, a lesson learnt for next time!
Andrew, I completely agree with your point and I do with my cars very same "combinations/downsizing " last 15years, or so...
Well said, and explained!👍
P.S. I live in Michigan with more than enough snow during the winter.
What I find telling is that (decent) cars (like mine) produced just 5-15 years ago were being fitted with 'standard' sized tyres (e.g. 195/65 R15 or 205/55 R16 for C Sector cars) and were considered then and even now to be (if well maintained) decent handling cars. A mid-2000s Golf (round about the same age as my Mazda3) parked on a nearby road to mine had the same 15in tyres fitted as mine, as, to be honest, MANY cars of that era.
It's VERY noticeable now that, not content with going for the 'easy win' on the handling stakes of fitting lower profile tyres, I believe that car manufacturers are 'getting into bed' with the tyre manufacturers by also offering them in 'unusual' size combinations, perhaps to boost sales margins as they often cost 50%+ more than the more common ones, e.g. Mazda fitting 205/60 R16s as opposed to 205/55 R16. Have a look on a tyre fitter's website and you'll see how much expensive the first tyre costs than the second. Its the same across most makes now - very few will spec formely 'common' tyre sizes like the 205/55 R16.
My Dad's basic Ford Fiesta is just as bad - it should be fitted with a common14in tyre, but has a 185/50 R15 tyre which is MORE EXPENSIVE than my car's OEMs and far more than the 15in ones I now have fitted. I could understand it if his car was a Sporty model, but its not. A money-making wheeze if ever if heard (IMHO).
I think you guys in North America are much more wise to car/tyre manufacturers' money-making schemes than we are in the UK - we often (as I often see when I have my car serviced at the main dealer) grumble about the huge bills (I saw one guy when my car was having its tyres fitted doing so about paying £185 to have his damaged 18in tyre replaced on his gen-3 Mazda3 - round about the same price as three tyres [fitted] on my 12yo model) but still pay the extortionate prices. We Brits hate to complain (stiff upper lip and all that) - probably why we're so good at queuing.
I'll admit the Mazda 205/60 R16 is an unusual move, but I promise I've never heard of anything like that actually going on and I probably would have. Higher sidewalls allow for more comfort and lower rolling resistance so it might have been a choice for the CO2 banding.
The american market buys way more premium tyres than we do. Of all of Europe we're known as the dumping ground for cheap budget s**t :(
True i have 15" tyres and new studded tyres would cost around €500 but 17" were around 950
I live in Canada and I think the key to driving in winter is to slow down and give yourself more braking distance. Sometimes if there is 40cm of heavy snow on the highway you may only travel at 60km/h. Also certain winter tires perform worse on dry roads vs. snow/ice/wet. So you should pick a tire based on your climate. Where I live it gets cold and the snow turns to ice as it can be -30 or -40. So I use Nokian studded tires which I find work really well on my Honda Civic.
That's crazy cold!
@@tyrereviews yesss it is haha ! I live in Québec and we got 30cm of snow since the beginning of november lol
His analysis was informative.
Winter driving conditions in Canada vary with more extremes though.
Northeastern Ontario, in particular, can see driving conditions that include roads covered with deep slush. A small amount of slush interfere with the ability of the sypes to maintain contact with the road surface. It can cause hydroplaning. Deep slush offers rolling resistance and also affects the likelihood of hydroplaning with one added complication. Vehicles traveling on deeper slush-covered roads displace the slush as the trires roll through it. This throws slush to either side of each tire and eventually a significant piling of slush about 8.inches apart, creating troughs through which the tires travel.
You will have traction in these "ruts" then the cars stray and "whoops" your tires on one side face significant deceleration as hits the slush provide sudden rolling resistance on one. The uneven tracks tends to pull your vehicle to on side. The slush can freeze solid and all of a sudden the road can become very bumpy. Skinnier tires may cut through the slush more efficiently but they are horrible on frozen solid
slush, causing road surfaces with uneven traction
nice test, I have had winter tires from continental in the past and the difference when it gets cold is fenomenal vs summer tires. After both summer and winter sets got used up I pondered and chose the Michelin CC because it would spare me the hassle of swapping out tires two times a year, and it would also mean that i get to buy newer tires more often. I had the winter / summer set for 8 years and they were performing poorly even though they still had a lot of "meat" on them. So for people who do few miles and with these new european winters which are super short in most countries I would definitely recomend the all season. It doesn't sacrifice that much in the summer and it gets you through those 3 weeks of snow fall a year.
I agree, especially for the UK and smaller cars, I think all season tyres are a good option.
I work at a tire shop. all your information is very educational and helps me to understand tires more. Most people do not realize how much tires can effect a car all the way around. Id love to see a video of good vs cheap snow tires if you're able to. I'd love to be able to educate people
Thank you :)
best channel about tyres by far! keep it up
Is it best because it's the only channel about tyres? :)
Well, in Germany we mostly check the ADAC tests, but they only post the summaries of the tests in youtube. It is also true that ADAC is not a purely tyre-testing channel, so I really appreciate the length, the detail, and the explanation you give, and i would follow your channel twice if i could :-)
The Goodyear Ultragrip is my winter tyre of choice and I use 205/55x16 for the winter and 225/45x17 Goodyear Efficient Grip Performance for summer. In UK we don't get snow very often but from October to April the rural roads are greasy with mud and the winter tyre excels in those conditions. NOTE the Goodyear Ultragrip is a MUD and snow tyre, which is often forgotten. A taller sidewall tyre helps the tread to conform to the road surface giving the best grip on normal UK roads that are not the billiard table smooth surfaces of the test track.
Glad you're getting on with the Goodyear pairing :)
I have 205/55/R16 winters on my E90 BMW 328 and they're spectacular. I use 18 for summer.
True story, a few years ago, we had quite some snow here in Lyon (France), I was driving my 325is e30 to work, with some old Michelin Alpin, old school winter tire with agressive thread pattern in 175/70r14 pizza cutter size. On the highway, I was cruising in 5th gear on the left lane, the snow was wet and heavy, but the car felt very safe, stable and as always being smooth with inputs and decontracted behind the wheel is important. A dude which was convicted that his new X5 with 4 wheels as wide as my car alone could do better because Xdrive bro, moved behind me. I can tell you that I saw the headlight beam in the rear view miror starting to float over the lane pretty badly, and the guy had no other choice than to go back to the middle lane. I carried on in my lane like no big deal.
My personnal preference is to give away a bit of dry performance in favor of comfort and wet + snow performance in winter. I can understand that some people don't want the steel rim / fat tire in winter and keep their gigantic alloys, at least it's better than nothing but I don't really see the point (storage, yeah why not).
Can't wait to see that 4wd vs winter video, I tried my A6 Quattro on worned out Yokohamas snow tires (16") vs budget summer tires on snow (though the snow was over but surprise), I have to say that I expected a bigger difference but permanent awd, snow tires even worned out, it's cheating :D, stable as a freight train, takes off the line like it's just wet, it brakes nice even if the car is 2000kg, so safe in those conditions ! Amazing
Great story! My ex girlfriend used to drive a Ford KA and I'd put it on 165 winters every year. It was super fun going out and helping all the big suvs get moving again as they span all 4 of their massively wide summer tyres.
@@tyrereviews the worse thing about 4wd is it does not help the braking in anyway. Rwd is the best for slowing down.
I agree regarding 4WD braking, not sure I follow regarding RWD though
@@chrisredfield3240 yes the brakes brake on all 4 wheels, but don't forget engine braking, on permanent all wheel drive like my A4 quattro when you back of the throttle all 4 wheels brake making it really stable.
@@TC-V8 fwd is bad letting the engine slow you down as you loose the front end. With rwd it pulls you strait under engine braking. To be honest i don't know what 4wd does. If you have to do real slowing down i guess they don't have much more to offer. Least the getting off the line vs. Slowing down is more balanced without 4wd
Nice test. One thing you didn’t mention is brake size, with a BMW 325i for example you can go down to a 16” - but for a 330i you’re looking at minimum 17”.
A 16-inch wheel is best but that depends on the Offset (ET#) as not all 16-inch will clear caliper/brake assembly. Example: 18x8 ET50, you should try to keep the Offset close to the original wheel offset number such as 48 or 45 Offset as going to 42 Offset may not work. Therefore, if a 16-inch does not fit get a 17-inch. Another thing is you can only go 2 wheel sizes up or down from 18-inch being the smallest 16-inch and largest 20-inch wheel. If you have 18-inch alloy wheels, use caution because hitting a pothole or the curb during the winter season may damage your alloy wheel or rupture the tire. Proper storage of winter/snow tires (any and all tires) after the winter season will prevent dry rot and flat spots so they will be usable for the next season. Temperature variables will affect inflation so check your tire PSI at least once a month. Note: this gentleman 7 years ago (3 years prior to this video) did a 17,18, and 19-inch comparison.
From NYC. Great reviews, tests and tutorial. I watched it in full, because I’m trying to smooth out a GT on 20 inchers, which I would do by going to 18 inch. It would date the look a bit - but since I’m not tracking the car, (and I haven’t had a ticket in 25 years), daily comfort is paramount. I wanted both objective and subjective thoughts on how the handling would be affected. And I am subscribed! Thanks!
Thanks for the kind words :)
Nice video and as someone living in the alps with a 2 wheel drive car I can endorse just how good winter tyres are compared with summer tyres when it is cold and slippery - almost negates the need for a 4wd. I went the route of getting 205/16 60 winter instead of the 215/55 17 summer tyres. They don't handle quite as sharply but I really appreciate the extra comfort and they are not too noisy.
As for the test, the one thing missing is the ability to hill start on a snow covered slope. This is my number one concern when driving in snow as I don't want to have to put on the snow chains.
The traction between the three sizes was pretty much the same so... holy smoke I forgot to put the acceleration data in the video... oh no i didn't phew. 2:03 :)
Great points. I lived in the Alps and totally agree. Standing starts on slopes are a common issue, I hate electronic handbrakes for snow driving too... winter tyres are a revelation, I only had to use chains two or three times in 6 months when there was sheet ice.
The comparison of handling and grip is interesting among the three snow tires, due to their contact patch size. It is the opposite of the relationship between bias plies and radial summer type tires, where contact patches are shaped differently, the bias plies being longer whereas the radial tires have wider patch contact. Radial tires perform better, as their patches are larger and wider; thus, they gain a performance advantage. However, it seems that there is an advantage to having a tire with a longer, more bias ply type contact patch that will cut through the snow in order to grip a road surface better. Another advantage is The smaller the wheel and tire size, the cheaper the tire will be, which is also something to be considered.
Before even watching this... the narrower 16" with the higher sidewalls should win... Or I could be corrected... Thoroughly enjoying your comprehensive work! Keep up, and I hope you and your channel get the recognition you deserve.
Yep, wintry, snow conditions and nasty roads, smaller size, narrower tire.
Great video again! Similar experience on my side after switching from 16" crossclimate (205/55-16, as initially my standard size wasn't available) to the standard 215/45-17. Much more steering feel and control. Feels more stable and safe on highway due to the different width and wall height ratio (and load rating is more optimal). Unfortunately also higher fuel consumption, a bit more than I expected.
You guys are my standard reference for tyre info. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the kind words :)
10:30 for a balance view. With so many garages selling part worns for £10 you really have to worry about what is coming towards you when it is wet, snowy or icy.
Thanks for the wealth of information on you channel and the high production standards.
I feel cold just watching you in a t-shirt with all that snow outside!!!
It was surprisingly warm... plus coats are noisy on mics :)
Shrink1061 i drive in T-shirt when it’s -25°C outside, been doing it for years.
Tyre Reviews but in tight T shirt You wouldnt look like a gay in night club 😂
He gotta show off those arms bruh
Justin Galvan there is nothing to show off. These arms are very medium. Gronholm and Makinen drive in jackets. 😂
I threw 205/50R17 winter tires on my GTI because the diameter was the same as the 225/40R18s it came with. It allowed me to have that narrower tire for traction and higher sidewall for comfort.
Your tires should be 45 in profile on 17 inch wheel.
I just go with stock 15 inch alloys with hideously tall sidewall 195/65 tire for winter to absorb all the potholes and curbs I'm inevitably going to hit driving through heavy rain in the dark and leave fancy aftermarket r17 215/40 for summer
Like driving on a cloud
on many cars now you cant fit smaller wheels than 16 or 17 even. So 15 doesnt even work.
@@SupraStar29 nah I'm still running in the 90s
@@darius2640 yup thats the advantage for the 90s haha
I had a Golf just like the one in the video, 2.0 tdi 150ps 17" wheels and had the tyres swapped to Michelin Alpin 5's in winter - it was so good subjectively, only very occasional drives on snow heavily and frosted icy slippery roads were okay, they were very good in the wet and seemed impossible to aquaplane even hitting significant standing water on the motorway. Generally the car still handled very well with them.
Now driving a 250ps rear wheel drive BMW 230i that has 18" wheels and brakes that mean only certain 17" wheels might fit. Have a set of 18" winter wheels with 225 40 Michelin Pilot sport Alpines fitted, on this car with these tyres the car seems to loose some of it's planted feel and I perceive a reduction in ultimate grip, and very wet conditions don't feel quite as secure as in the golf but it does retain very good handling balance and control-ability. I have driven in proper snow in the countryside where I live and it didn't get stuck but felt it might still struggle with steeper hills.
You'd probably be surprised at how good it is on hills, but you're right the most powerful a car gets, the worse it can feel on winter tyres.
I enjoyed the video, thanks! I'd love to see a video comparing say, a 225 against a 245 and 265 of the same rim diameter.
The wider the tire the easier it is to slip(less traction) in wet or snow conditions
Sir,you're one of the best revieuwers i've ever seen on YT ..I wish there was also a technical revieuwer/investigator like you but with "car-springs and shock-absorbers"..thanx alot.
Thank you! I'm hoping to add these to the channel soon!
I'd vote for smaller diameter winter wheels too: extra sidewall for the winter potholes and MUCH, MUCH cheaper. Just remember to check that your car can take the smaller sizes and it isn't always obvious!! I found a VERY cheap set of 17" alloys off the same year Audi A6 "Ultra" - except this was the bottom end TDI and mine was top end petrol version. Turns out that you can't fit 17's to the high-end A6's as their front brakes are ~340mm and 17" wheels won't fit around the brake calipers - even the 18's only have a few mm clearance!
A good point, always check the handbook :)
Both our WRX STI and Audi A4 Avant run 18” rims in summer and 17” in winter. Both cars have not had any issues in snow and ice with winter tyres. Living in the Highlands of Scotland we run winter tyres from the end of October until mid May.
I consider some different aspects when choosing a wheel size, and because of that I always try to get a smaller wheel.
I've had a few mishaps in the snow due to visibility and road conditions. Curbs, ice chunks, road debris, potholes, etc. Here in Ohio it snows enough to hide these obstacles so a big concern is the likelihood of damaging your wheels but smacking into something you can't see. Even traversing a snow-covered parking lot could result in bumping a curb or parking block, even running them completely over. It's pretty common, actually, and these scenarios don't have anything to do with traction.
The higher-profile tires on smaller wheels are much less likely to get damaged by hidden obstacles. I recall that the snow tires on my old RX-7 were 205/70-15, factory-sized balloon tires, and all the winter tire brands I used managed to withstand several impacts over the nine years I drove the car. Combine that with steel wheels, and any wheel damage that does occur can be fixed with a hammer. Because of that I'd say a higher-profile winter tire on a smaller wheel is almost always the safer, more reliable choice.
Yep, it's an important consideration :)
Cold snow provides very good traction. In moderate snow, taller skinnier tires work better (more sidewall to flex and more weight on the contact patch). In deep snow tall sidewalls and a large contact patch work better (more flotation and less chance of high centering). In deep snow ground clearance is key. I run 37x13.5x18 on a 7500 lb 4wd truck and it plows through deep snow like it isn't even there.
Great video as always!
Did you forget to pack a jumper when you went to Finland?! 😁
I'm not sure I own a jumper! :)
No problem, today they even sell cars with heaters....
Can't see the biceps under a jumper ;)
@@csllover Biceps is biceps when both ceps are there and only then, a good example is Albert Backles as an illustrative explanation.
I feel like you tend to find more winter/offroad options in smaller wheel sizes (15/16) than the larger sizes (17+), and that is worth taking into consideration.
Larger wheels/low profile tires are more attributed to sporty driving, so you will find more summer/sport options in those sizes than winter/ice options.
Narrower tyres with a deeper sidewall every time. I have an old Passat Estate workhorse and with winter tyres (195/65x15) it has more grip than my 2003 X5 (255 and 295 x 19 tyres)
I'm also a massive tyre nerd, they are such critical things and I agonise over buying them. Having a big 4x4 for light offroad and towing makes for additional factors when choosing tyres. I only recently found out that the tyres on the car were 8 years old and had dried up providing no grip in the wet. I would suggest covering tyre age and condition, wear patterns in this channel, I would love to get involved in making content!
As lots of people are asking for this I'll be sure to add it to the list :)
With bigger wheels on cars as standard these days - would love to see 18 vs 19 vs 20 winter performance. Is it true that a 20"+ wheel just pretty much sucks in winter conditions?
I have an Audi TT 8s (MK3). The recommended winter size is R17 225/50. However due to many reasons, I just used the same R19 245/35 size of tire that I use for summer. The aquaplaning and the drivability were down right dangerous.
Also depends on your car. If you have a heavy car, it will be easier to counteract larger rim/wider tire.
The best channel of its kind in TH-cam
Best and only :D
i usually run 15" with 175 to 195 MAX with.
I’ve been a fan for a good while but this is my first time watching this vid. Gotta say, the triceps are popping bro
Hey there! First of all, great video as always. :)
I found it really interesting, because I changed from 16 to 17 inch winter tyres couple of weeks ago. I bought brand new summer rims and tires and I didn't want to sell my old original summer rims. Therefore I bought Nokian WR 4D in 225/45/17 for them.
So far, I can say that I didn't expect them to be so confortable. I thought, I will lose on comfort compared to my old 16 inch winter tires. Maybe the fact, that they are brand new and have almost 9mm soft thread dept plays a big role. I am looking forward to testing them in snow conditions.
On the bad side was the price difference of almost 35-40 euros pro tire between 205/55/16 and 225/25/17. After all, it all depands what your motives are. If You don't want to spend more, You stay with smaller rims and tires, which do the same work, if not better in snow conditions and for comfort. But as I said, I don't think You would loose a lot on comfort. It's just the protection of potholes, which is suffering. I live in Germany and have no problems of this kind. But I come originally from Bulgaria, where I busted my 16 inch winter tire last winter. Therefore it's something to keep in mind. haha
PS: I would very much like, If you give your professional opinion of my choice of winter tyres (Nokian WR 4D MFS). They scored excellent results, but what is the reality like? :)
I really like the WRD4, in fact they make my top winter tyre list in the winter tyre video (should be out next week!) They're very strong in the snow, but not quite as good as the best in the wet.
@@tyrereviews Thank you very much for your reply! I asked you previously for your opinion about my summer tires and you replied back then too. Cheers :)
Another thing to consider is brake rotor size. My Optima SX comes with 18" wheels and I cannot physically fit a 16" wheel over the oversized rotors. So I have no choice but to go with 17. Using Blizzaks in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. I know snow and ice driving... ;)
So happy to have my 17s on. Though I'm running michelin latitude cross
My 19 inch tires, that are Bridgestone blizzaks, powered by a 365 horsepower engine with 400 foot pounds of torque, in all-wheel drive, makes for a very fun winter up in Northern Canada, we already have a foot of snow up here and this morning it was - 23 degrees Celsius
Keep up the great work! TH-cam favors quantity over quality, which is a shame, as your quality is HUGE!
Thanks :) Sadly I couldn't make a lot of videos about tyres even if I tried, there's just not enough things to talk about!
Had my new Continental TS860's on 16" steel rims fitted today.
Then I had to brave the shed, clear out the crap and spiders to fit the 17" alloys with Goodyear F3's get to spend the winter.
Keep up the great reviews!
Thanks
If the tyres are on the rims it's best to stack them or hang them. If they're not on rims it's best to stand them up and rotate them every 4 weeks.
“I have too much oversteer during winter driving” said no one ever
I believe the 16 is quieter due to the smaller contact patch on the road and wheel width. The wheel size should not negate more road noise. The tire sidewall effects the NVH the most over the wheel size.
Lower width and higher profile winter tire should help in deep snow (3+ inches ?). Thinner tire should cut snow better (kind of similar to hydroplaning results) and flexing sidewall of higher profile tire should provide better traction on the uneven pavement which is likely to encounter under deep snow.
@RichardADastrdly. Agreed. Wider tire changes shape of contact patch but doesn't necessary increase size. It would be interesting to see an ice performance test of the same model tire but different width.
Add more weight to the vehicle so the bigger tires have more force to push slush out of the way.
More weight does help to get car going. Many limo drivers carried sand bags in the trunk of their rear wheel drive cars to help with traction during winter. On the negative side, extra weight may increase stopping distance.
@@oz7564 It all depends on what pressures they were running. Two tyres with the same static load, same sidewall stiffness and same pressure will have the same contact area, so the wider you go the shorter the contact patch.
Here in Canada some provinces don't allow studded tires. We have 2 Hondas, one with Good Year all season tires on a Honda CRV, never had a problem in winter which can be cold dropping to -30C. Our Honda Civic has all season Good Year tires and for winter Michelin Ice tires, it out brakes the CRV in snow or ice.
It's not really a surprise that the lighter vehicle with winter tires stops faster than the heavier vehicle on all-seasons.
195/65R15 💪
245/45R20 🤚🏼🤞🏻
145/80R13。I have a Kei car in Japan.
For driving in snow the tyre to fit from Goodyear is actually Goodyear Ultragrip Ice 2. It superceeds the grip in snow compared to "southern" wintertyres like Performance Gen 1. For the Golf, Octavia you can go one size up and actually fit 205/60R16, 225/50R17 and 225/45R18. It has just a bit more sidewall providing more comfort.
Agreed the Ice 2 is a better tyre, but not suitable for the UK due to reduction in dry and wet performance. I briefly cover nordics towards the end :)
I like using 16s, plenty of tire choices along with the wider aspect ratio of the sidewall really helps when you hit something unexpected in deeper snow. But really any snow tire is going to be a big improvement in snow and on ice compared to any all season.
If you use your vehicle to commute in the snow. I recommend smaller rims and taller side walls. Snowy roads will be icy and the road surface will be rugged. Taller side wall will be more comfortable and that will lead to more control on poor road conditions. Also you should be driving according to road conditions anyway. With the taller side walls and smaller rims, you have less chances of snow and ice build up on the inside of the rim. If it's too much build up then your wheels will be off balance if you ever get up to highway speeds on a highway.
All good points :)
Quality content as usual!
One of the best channels out there.
Thank you sir :)
Surely you have to consider the OEM on any car ie wheel and tire size. I live in CANADA so we get lots of deep snow and ice here. Rule of thumb narrower tires are recommended for best results on snow and ice.
When muscles are more important than the weather
Driving in Holland, Summertyres: 215/40R17 (GY Eagle F1 Asymmetric 6 €125/tyre) and for cold season: All seasons 185/60R15 (GY Vector 4seasons gen-3 €75/tyre)
I like how you are in a t shirt with all that snow and ice.
I'm using 16" 215/65 studded winter tyres during winter and 19" 245/45 front and 275/40 back tyres during summer, both sets are on alloys. Why I use studded tyres during winter is because the roads on which I'm driving are usually covered by a lot of wet, salty ice and sludge.
Studs aren't allowed in the UK but they are incredible in areas that need them!
if you're wondering, NVH stands for Noise, Vibration and Harshness. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise,_vibration,_and_harshness
Thank you :)
One important question, which was more fuel efficient?
16 and 17" are both rated C on the EU fuel label, overall the 16" will be best as it's narrower and lighter.
Most important question is safety, can't cheap out on that.
@@ChosenBlood1 when the objective data is showing a 1% difference, everything else is more important.
Fuel is cheap. If it costs you 20% more to avoid a crash it is well worth the investment.
Small one
Great Info. I run a saab, during the summer with 17" and winter with 16" works well. And as the profile on the 16" is higher the speedo is the same. You didn't mention this on your tests.
So basically not a 16, 17 or 18 inch winter tyre comparison, but the effect of sidewall size....
Yes, different side walls is the result of different rim size. You can’t change the diameter of the entire wheel.
Really interesting presentation. When buying winter tyres in the past, I have always matched the tyre size to that of the tyres/wheels originally fitted to my car. I was under the impression that the speedometer had been synchronised with the original wheel tyre combination during production.
All three sizes in this test have the same rolling radius so are interchangeable without affecting your speedo
@@tyrereviews. Ahh, I've had to look up how to work out the rolling radius.
Love it mate, could listen to you talk tyres all night long... (was that slightly gay haha)
This can be arranged
Only slightly 😀
Good topic and almost fair appraisal: You neglected the difference in handling likely to be felt by the 16 inch mounted on steel rims. These are likely to be heavier and flex more. Although I do concede that 205/55 tyres will flex plenty in their own sidewalls...
My wife came off the road in the last snow, was thinking of getting the Michelin summer biased all season tyre for country roads in the Midlands this winter. She currently has the up with the standard eco tyres. Seem sensible?
The CrossClimate will be many times better than the summer tyres, check out my last video on all season tyres :)
The problem with the lower profile tyres is that although they do give better grip through the corners. At the limit they give very little warning and tend to give up suddenly. I think in the poor weather we get in winter I’d rather feel that side wall flex as a warning before the understeer worsens. Personal preference I know.
Great review thank you
Thank you for the thanks :)
I wouldnt have guessed that the biggest difference is comfort/nvh, very intersting. Thanks for another great review!
Glad you enjoyed it :)
I wonder… for the subjective ratings, did you judge them in a blind test, or did you know which tire was on?
As much as I trust your judgement, the mind is a fickle, fickle thing, and even the most experienced people let prejudice taint their opinion almost everywhere, everytime, without any bad intention and even when knowing about possible bias. it's just something we humans can't switch off.
So if it wasn't a blind test, it would be cool if you could do that next time, have somebody guide you into the car while you're blindfolded (etc.), and make your judgement that way. Double blind would be best, but I suppose that would be hard in this case.
My next proper test will be blind :) In this case the differences are so vast I would know instantly what wheel was on!
Differences aren’t dramatic, but a good test. Well done.
Thank you :)
Also 16" is cheaper than the 18" ones
And also lighter.
So I think there is an advantage to the tyres with the bigger sidewall that isn’t mentioned here. I specced my e class with the smallest wheels possible and I’m running 225/55 r17 tyres. I had some winter sport 5 tyres on last winter and I hit a deep pothole - there was a loud bang and I thought I had probably ruined the tyre/wheel/suspension. I checked it and there was no damage, got a garage to check suspension/wheel and it was all good. The bigger sidewall gives you protection against massive potholes like we get here in the U.K. I used to have a car with 19” wheels, 255/35 tyres and blew up 3 of them on relatively small potholes.
Suomi mainittu torille perkele
TORILLE!!!!
Tätä mä etsinkin
Kyllä kyllä
Even though I live in a tropical country, winter tires interest me a lot and I frequently find myself looking at Blizzaks. This video is incredibly good. The cinematics are amazing, plus all the information!
Glad you liked the video even if you have no use for winter tyres :)
20" INCHES for ME !!!!!!!!!!!
Summer Tires - 22"
20 inch for me to....not cheap 😂
Two things you don't mention.
First of all: the 16 inch is the cheapest, so go for a 16 inch premiumtyre instead of a 18 inch budget tyre is a good option.
Secondly, it is clever to priority snow and wet on wintertyres.
So I go for 16 inch.
how about my 14" :o
Super comfortable? :)
Narrow tires for winter work is thought as better to dig down to pavement. The real benefit is not that it can dig down but that there is just more pressure per square inch. Which pushes the benefits of the winter formulation of the rubber into the surface for best deformation and grip. Plus the smaller rim the tire fits to makes for cheaper tires and cheaper rims.
I recently bought a set of rims and winter tires. Original wheels were 215/45R17 on aluminums and I bought 205/55R16 on steelies. I was able to save $200 on my rims and $350 on my tires for 1%-2% better performance. I call that a deal worth researching to get.
My car came with 19" on it lol
My car came stock with 20 inch rims..... i had to drop my winter tires down 2 sizes (basically to size of base model).....
Sounds like cost would be the biggest factor for most since their performance was so close together. I bet the 16” would be quite a bit less expensive versus either 17 or 18. This coincides with my belief to get the smallest wheel which fits over your brakes, whether that’s for track duty, daily driving or winter use.
You're certainly correct regarding the pricing.
Having 14“ winter tires😂
In mid 90s I run 155/75r13 Hakka's on Civic instead of 175/65r14 - cheaper, never problems with being stuck in deep snow, no bend rims, and I like to keep it that way - the smallest size rim that I can fit.
@@pliedtka yeah i just kept my 14 on.
So i will stick with my 16", because i like comfort, but in the summer i like "sporty" driving. Thanks for this video
Depending on the car, 16s aren't optimum for sporty summer driving, but they're great for winter :)
I have 19'
😅
Rip
A little different application, I run 255/80-17 All Terrains in summer on my Jeep Grand Cherokee and 235/85-16 Nokian Rotiiva AT in winter. The tall "pie cutter" winter tires turn my rig into a snowmobile in winter.
He has no life outside of tires because he is too tired ?
I know, i'm out, sorry
Good test..i have 16 inch and will buy next 16 in 4 years..
it would be interesting to see some SUV tyres comparisons since 50% of cars now sold are SUVs, I understand that SUV drivers may not care about grip or handling that much, but there is surprisingly little information about SUV tyres in general.
Great video!!
Next year will be the year of the SUV :)
Good test. Time to update. Using wider tires and bigger wheels.
I find it interesting to see the noise levels. The 205/55/16 is the most quiet in this test, however according to the EU-tire label it produces 71db, while the 225/45/17 produces 70db and the 225/40/18 makes 71db.
The EU label measures external drive by noise, we tested the noise in cabin, they can be quite different!
I love your videos, and in this one I am actually amazed by the nature :)
I have 16' now, thx to you i will buy 17' not 18' for summer. Nice review, thanks you sir.
Have you seen the 17 vs 18 vs 19 inch summer tyre test video?
No discussion of tyre pressure nor plowed vs deep snow nor the air temperature, at just below freezing (more common in UK) vs well below freezing (as in northern Finland) different tyres would perform differently as the sidewall rubber would be stiffer at colder temperatures.
Tyre pressures are all VW recommended for the Golf. If you can find a way of letting me test winter tyres in snow and ice at UK temperatures you'll be a very rich man :)
@@tyrereviews Those conditions happen all the time in the mid-atlantic and north eastern regions of the US. Airing down in deep snow can help you float, but will make little difference in the conditions shown on the video.
I run 205/55R16 Michelin PS4 in summer and 195/65R15 Michelin XIN4 in winter on my Golf VI.
First, the heavier 17" or even 18" wheels feel too sluggish with an anemic 102 BHP engine. Second, for the price of quite average 17"/18" tires, I can get the top of the line tires in 16". And 15" are even cheaper. Not to mention price difference for disks, given they are manufactured by a reputable brand (I still don't thrust "replicas").
As for the sharper steering, I just go for a higher load rating of around 95/97 instead of factory recommended 91. This gives a minor tire price and noise penalty, but gives all the steering and durability advantages of a stiffer sidewall.
Put on 18" on my Porsche just today. Seems like I got it somewhat right. Live in Sweden but won't really drive the Porsche when it is a lot of snow. Porsche recommends Continental for my car though so thats that...