Low profile tires also allow installing larger brakes, which is important in sports cars as larger brakes heat up less and thus maintain better braking performance when being used a lot without sufficient time for cooling.
You should have said With low profile tires you can install a bigger diameter rim in which allows bigger rotor clearance for larger brakes Low profile doesnt equate to larger brakes 🤦♂️
@@infectedharpy They also use carbon ceramics. Has better thermal property and way more expensive. This is way more cost effective for 99 percent of the people.
@@infectedharpy Don't be silly Harpy. How well do you think those F1 brakes would be if they were half the thickness or diameter? Those brakes are as big as the rules allow., if there were no rules you think the teams would be happy to stay as things are? No.
There is also a big issue not adressed in the video: Unsprung mass Bigger rim diameter will add unsprung mass which has a negative effect on the power output of your car. You can compensate for that by using lighter wheels. Lighter because even same size rims from different manufacturers DO NOT weight the same. To get the best and most of your low profile setup you HAVE TO consider and compare wheel and rim combination. Even tyres do not weight the same. The less your combo weight will be the better your fuel economy and power output is going to be. If you ever experienced the feeling that your smaller rims allow you to go faster then your bigger ones (winter vs summer setup for example) then this is exactly the situation. Smaller rims and tyres usually weight less. And then there are multiple other factors to consider. Like tyre stretching. If you want little to no tyre deformation when cornering to give you the most control over your car behavior you can stretch your tyres a bit. The more you stretch them the more precise they will react to any changes deviating from a straight forward movement. You can overstretch your tyres as well leaving your car easy to drift. Cool if that is your aim but not so cool if that is not your main goal (as it may easily send you off the road into some ditch). Another thing to consider is your suspension. The stiffer yours is the more control it will give you. The softer it is the more forgiving it is. It highly depends on your target. What your aim is. You can have big wheels with soft suspension but also with stiff suspension. You can have the same with small wheels. Each combination will give you some benefits and some drawbacks as well. It is not hard to understand it completely and then look for legal (and reasonable) alternatives to your current car setup but it is definetly wise to resarch first and try later.
True, and not only acceleration is impacted by the higher unsprung mass but also the suspensions and dampers will have a lot more work, thus potentially lower grip on bumpy road as your suspension may not manage to rebound in time to push the heavy wheel back on tarmac.
Only when installing a tire with a greater circumference and or wider than is going to be replacing the original tire. Same size tire but bigger wheel will weigh less in most cases. Because rubber steel belts per inch is heavier than most metals. You will then be simply replacing the heavy sidewall, for in most cases a few spokes and basically AIR. Tires are solid with metal cords bound inside the rubber compound, so essentially the sidewall you replace with wheel is just as solid/heavy as a wheel. Now if you go with a Wider wheel than factory, that's where you add the unsprung weight. Though really for street use, it is best to stick to a 8-9" tire wheel combo anyways; purely for driving in the rain and flooded road conditions. A wide tire will hydroplane way before a factory size 7-8" tire will. The wider the tire the more water has to be removed from the contact patch at once to remain stable and in contact with the road. Almost any rim you get will be much lighter than a factory option. You still have to weigh out if the lighter wheel is going to be safe enough for your weight of vehicle.
Stiffer suspension doesnt mean better just as soft ones dont mean worse, thats just the idea people get when entering both sportscars and regular cars, there are variables like suspension travel and dampening that play a huge part in this, for instance when you buy coil overs for a stiff sportcar, you can actually make it more comfortable and forgiving whilst more engaging and better for track driving, it all depends on the setup you prefer.
You shouldn't care about unsprung mass of the wheel almost at all if you're serious about performance. Aftermarket "sports wheels" are made light by having them be flimsy compared to OEM and racing wheels. They might deflect in camber more than +1.0deg/yG. Most of the wheel compliance comes from the wheel itself, not from the upright or geometry, actually. You might get +2.0deg/yG easily, which means you'd need to run -2.0deg additional static camber, which will noticeably decrease straightline grip. Heavier racing wheels will add unsprung mass, but they will dramatically reduce wheel deflection. Heavier, wider tires will also dramatically increase grip. Due to this larger power racing cars usually have quite large unsprung mass. All that more unsprung mass will do is suck some power out, very minorly increase angular inertia if we're talking about wheels only here and they will decrease the unsprung damping ratio of the wheel which can be good or bad depending on the other damping ratios and the surface the tire will land on when it loads again. Brakes barely increase angular inertia at all so go as big on those as you can, the mass increase will not be a problem. Carbon wheels are starting to come out which allow a kind of best of both worlds, though.
To slow the F1 cars down they have made them use larger diameter rims... Also - a couple of decades ago I bought a Jaguar that had factory fitted but massive wheels - 20" or something - it was second hand with about 40k miles on it but it was very noisy over bumps. I took it to a specialist and he showed me every suspension bush was shot and needed replacing. This was a combination of Jaguar at the time not having the best quality components but mostly the super low profile tires smashing the hell out of a suspension set-up designed for high side wall very compliant tires. This is what happens when you sport up a luxury saloon. Big rims are for 14 year olds and concept cars.
I was planning to change the 15'' alloy to 17'' alloy tiers but after watching your video I feel comfortable with the existing 15'' alloy tiers. Thank you...
I have my car with low profile tires and 17 inch magswheels. It was a showroom unit displayed at the dealer and not in other dealer as few unit are shift from overseas to here in middle east . If you have a performance car it is not advisable to change the rims to smaller ones as it will compromise the performance the underchassis shocks, steering, was design for that. If you are not to spend much on upgrading your wheels just follow what good or suited for your car or follow what your heart desire otherwise stick with the stock or whatever the car have when you pick it up at the dealer.
@@jeffa4822 I agree but if they are there in your vehicle, it's because they would perform the best with that body and engine. If we would change that it would impact the performance, wear & tear, suspension and many other things..
@@RajVeerEkSoch i used 195/60 tyre with my R15, its looks great because 60 hi profile tyre make it fully placed to the space. I make it lowerd to 2 fingger and it still looks good.
The handling of low profile tires is much harder than stock tires. You can almost feel the concrete road in low profile tires versus the stock tires which offer a smooth & comfortable ride.
Yeah, its horrific. I remember in 90s cars have 13" or 14" wheels, and roads were much worse but ride quality was better then. Some routes even acted like cradle.
I know a guy who once tried to drive his parent’s SUV with low profile tires on a rocky dirt road and he blew his tire. I’ve driven on the same road with normal tires and didn’t have any issues. Kinda defeats the idea of an SUV being off-road capable when it’s tires can’t handle it.
Great Video! I believe one thing can be added. Narrow tires INCREASE grip on loose surfaces, because they dig in much quicker. When a car is driving on a dirt (or snow) road, there's typically a layer of uncompacted soil (or snow) on top, a car basically floats on that layer, having next to no grip. A narrow tire with large treads will quickly throw away all that soil and grip to a much more dense layer beneath it. What's more, according to the law of conservation of momentum, soil launched rearwards by the car propells that car forward. I recommend checking out some footage from rally racing to see how that works. Rally cars spend most of their life is a slide to get more grip by digging in as fast as possible. And their dirt and snow(especially snow) tires are very narrow, too.
I had a '96 Accord EX F22b1/5spd some years back, and if anybody remembers the factory 15"x5.5" wheels, they were HEAVY. The 195/60-15 tires were barely adequate for the way I drove, especially with the car's 3009lb curb weight, so I replaced them with 17"x7" wheels, 215/45-17 tires, and the difference was night and day. The new setup was about 20% lighter, rode WAY better, and even though they were roughly ¼" taller, which dropped highway revs by about 200 (no advantage to dropped revs on the 145hp 2.2l), I got better mileage, most likely due to the weight savings. To take it up another notch, I installed adjustable ball joints, since the original ones were starting to show wear, and replaced all sway bar bushings with polyurethane. Cornering was much better, as was braking, but to take up some of the space around those tiny brakes, I switched the front calipers & discs to those from the station wagon, along with braided stainless hoses, and slightly more aggressive EBC brake pads. From there, my car had better manners, and braking than was ever intended, making my everyday sedan a LOT more fun to drive.
I have a base model 2005 honda accord 4 cylinder, automatic with 195/65/15 tires on steel wheels . I want to switch them out for a set of 2005 acura tsx 17 inch 9 spoke wheels. Do you think this is a good idea? I also have a set of new aftermarket fapo coilovers from ebay that I intend to put on and lower my car. Thank you.
@TorontoGuy personally, I would do everything you mentioned, especially the wheels. There should be no fitment issues, and you probably know as well as I do that most any family sedan can be made to handle better.
A big factor in traction is also the treadwear rating on the tire ( higher number = less traction and more life, the lower the number = better traction and less life)
Not always look at traction and temperature ratings too, AA is better than A is better than B. The treadwear can be lower on a passenger car tire than on a UHP all season. Speed rating on tires also makes a difference a short lived S or T rated tire wont grip like a Z or W rated tire and I’ve had W rated UHP all season tires that lasted longer and gripped just as well as a W rated UHP summer tire. Better in wet weather too
Previous owner of my toyota corolla -95 had changed wide low profile(195/50 r15) tires to the car. Didnt realise how terrible they are, before i switched to manufactor recomended tire(175/65 r14). What a difference in handling, noise and drivability on uneven surfaces!
i don’t think 195/50 is a low profile tire, low profile tires are 40 under but 195 is wide enough for a r15. Currently using 225/35 r18 and they sure hell needs to be driven carefully.
another thing to consider is total mass or the wheel, as rotating mass is more significant and smaller rims usually result in lower rotating weight on the vehicle as tires are in general lighter than even most alloy wheels, making the vehicle more nimble
I have a 1.88 tonne Front-Wheel Drive Mid Size SUV, 2.2L 4cyl Diesel motor paired with an Aisin sourced 6 speed Torque Converter, front wheels biased AWD system (60:40). Stock produces 185HP and 450Nms...and I got it to Stage 1...now it's producing 231HP and 525Nms... The main point... Stock Bridgestone Tyres are not so wide (235/60/R18) and they are literally spinning their wheels every other moment because of so much low end toruqe on tap... Is it sensible to upgrade to 255/60/R18 Michellin Pilot Sport 4 to handle this kinda power?
People think alloys are automatically lighter but it isn't so. Those factory steel rims can be very light especially in light of government regulations on fuel mileage these days, and cheaply replaced if they get bent.
I changed from wider tires to stock tires and the handling of my car is much better. Civic VIII has stiff suspension so before the change i could feel every single bump in the road. Now its much better and driving the car is pure joy. Good vid.
I fully understand the theory explained in this video, but reality is that most UHP tire are wider than their touring counterparts. If you switch from standard or touring tires to Ultra High High Performance summer tires with a slightly wider and lower profile size you will definitely feel a big performance difference. It’s mostly a matter of the compound and tread pattern, but in the end you get a big boost in performance.
That Model S in your video is my car with 21” wheels. LOL. I’ve had my share of flat tires, so I switched them out for 19” wheels. I’m a happier camper now.
I have had both, but honestly if you want a smoother ride, you have to go with high profile tires because you get a much comfortable ride and won't feel those bumps on the road like with low profile tires.
Minimum rim width for the tire size will make it more cushy. Taller sidewall tires can use narrower rim widths for a larger sectional diameter. Taller sidewall is just more forgiving.
I’m of the opinion that this information applies to 4WD’s as well as on-road vehicles. The key points being; 1. Downward force on standard tires = less chance of wheel spin (except where the vehicle is operating close to and/or fully loaded at all times, one or two tire sizes above standard would be advantageous as there is a higher downward force) 2. Wider tires are going to strike more obstacles on the track therefore stressing mechanical components and greater chances of a tire puncture 3. When the tires sink / break through the track surface they need to push more mud / snow / sand out of the way there slowing or stopping forward progress 4. Wider wheels / tires add to the vehicles kerb weight giving less carrying capacity 5. Wider wheels / tires cost more and decrease fuel efficiency = more time at work and less time enjoying your life !
I agree with all of it except point #4. Carrying capacity really isn't from from the tire up, but from the suspension up. Wheels and tires tend to be able to handle a lot more weight than the suspension/frame allows. The weight in the wheel isn't being carried, it is doing the carrying. On top of that: the bigger the footprint, the more it can carry, since it spreads the weight out over a bigger surface area.
I thin k you left out a very important thing for offroaders to know. When you air down the narrow tire for rock crawling grip, you have to air down wide tires to the point of risking bead separation to get significant grip/deformation (2 inch). The narrow tires will do it at safe pressures and the contact patch really isn't that different even when aired up.
Somewhat agree, just like you said if you don't change the dimensions of the wheel dramatically then it's ok. Like for example if going from a 185 or 195 to a 205 or 215 tyre in width it will increase braking performance and more stability and fuel consumptions mostly depends on the tyre compound and the brand of the tyre if you step up 10-20mm in width. If you buy a better quality tyre which is wider it might get better fuel consumption with increased grip, stability in cornering, better acceleration and better braking. Decreasing your sidewall a little bit will help with increasing performance without sacrificing a significant amount of comfort. Comfort depends on sidewall height, tyre quality, shock absorbers and suspension travel, and most importantly vehicle weight. You can't drive a Golf and expect a smooth ride, or a Chevrolet Spark. There is a reason why bigger and luxurious cars have a smoother ride. Also here's more complexity to this question, if you increase the quality of the tyre, for example you drive RoadX tyres which are low budget and switch to Michelins with a smaller sidewall and a bigger rim you might experience better bump handling and a smoother ride because the Michelin is a better quality tyre. Putting sportier tyres on your nonsporty vehicle will make it handle better but you will need other parts upgraded as well like brakes and shocks, because it's useless driving a monster truck of a car with sporty tyres. It's a somewhat complex question, you really need knowledge to find the right tyre for your vehicle. Stay safe out there.
Good video. The only benefit with low profile tyres is the aesthetics. Most of us don't need the low profile tyres to do "high speed cornering" in our everyday cars. On the other hand, the comfort goes south with low profile tyres. Amazing how so many people walk into a tyre and wheel shop to downgrade their cars.
If you tire is wider, you have more rubber to take the impact, than a narrow tire. Some low pro tires, can be just as comfortable as stock high pro tires, if the width is also increased, and the compounds used in the rubber are not super hard, and the psi is the same or lower. More stability with less deflection is a big safety upgrade as well. If you have to make a sharp turn to avoid an accident, take off from a stop quickly to avoid getting rear ended, or need to stop fast to avoid a front end collision, a wide low pro, is going give you that added performance, grip, and stability needed to avoid certain death. A wider contact point will also last longer, because there is less load per contact area. Wider all season tires usually also have better water deflection patterns to help alleviate hydroplaning. There are a ton of advantages of low pro performance tires over balloon tires, and aesthetics is just one benefit.
Replaced 205/55R16 with 225/40R18 wheels with fresh tires on not-so-sporty sedan. Result is more stable cornering, better grip, less road noise. The only observed negative effect is increased lateral torque on the wheels, as evidenced by more tug on the steering wheel when on uneven roads.
The lower road noise is most likely a result of other factors such as a different tyre compound and/or tread pattern, not the dimensions. You may have changed the tyre model as the models available between R16 and R18 are generally different. In fact, the same model name can have very different attributes between dimensions. R18 usually has more premium tyres.
@@user-lv9my6jw3x yeah, the reduction in road noise is definitely due to the new tires being fresh more than anything else. :) The new ones are Nexen N'Fera SU4s, the old ones were like 8 year old Continentals. Just the age of the rubber is going to make a huge difference. The car no longer swaying at all at high speed, though, is more down to wheel geometry.
@@peterjohnson9438 Agreed. I had Dunlops that were exposed to direct, African, sunlight and the tyres became bricks. And they weren't brilliant tyres to start off with (but decent for budget tyres). I aquaplaned and got Yokohama BluEarth ES32 tyres shortly after. Same dimensions but night and day difference. Ever since then I've always forked out for premium tyres. I recently got a double-on-not-so-sporty 12th gen Corolla that came standard with below mid-range Dunlops (225/40 R18). I replaced them rather quickly with Pilot Sport 4 tyres (same dimensions). More grip (especially when cold), better aquaplaning resistance, better impact feel but oddly higher road noise (especially on rough tarmac). I've switched between tyre brands and models over the years and have found Michelin to have the best road tyres with (usually) the highest amount of dry and wet grip. They normally fall a bit short in the wear department but all things considered, excellent tyres.
The one thing not addressed is the 'coolness' factor of the low vs high profile tires. In all seriousness, this is a great educational video that most males (and yes, some females as well) 16 - 25 years old should watch.
exact unsprung max is very important for handdling and for better driving dynamics. A lot of sports cars brands try to reduce rim weight by using carbon fiber + with that it's lighter than normal one and even better on cornering because carbon fiber is lighter there is less inertia and more stiffer so very precise but cost a lot and can't be repared if it cracks
In a very simple situation where tire width is increased from say 195 to 205, there is a HUGE benefit in handling performance if all other factors are kept the same. I noticed this on my 500 Abarth, and I can safely say I made the better choice. Car feels more stable at high speeds (80MPH+) and cornering grip increased dramatically from the wider contact patch. I believe this video is touching extreme case scenarios, and not everyday enthusiast performance upgrades. If it was meant to steer people away from such upgrades, then this guy should try it on his own car and then remake this video.
I don't understand much of the subject, but the one point the video seemed to get wrong to me was the traction part. I don't think the wider tires have less traction as the video say, and I think it shouldn't be more traction as you say either. Since the wider the tire there will be less weight per unit of area, thus less traction per unit of area, but proportionally more area to compensate, leading to same overall traction, with less wear on wider tires. So the determinant factor should be the type of rubber, as well as tread design.
@@lucasrfma yes, you make sense, but neither of us have done the math. Because I believe the big difference is noticed when you go from say a 165 tire to a 265. But a change from 195 to 205 does not solicit that much of a weight distribution change, however, surface area difference is enough to help take corners at 5MPH more
@@lucasrfma Pretty sure he misspoke and didn't bother to correct it. In my experience, wider tires on the same rim require a slight change in pressure to achieve optimum contact patch which makes the tire conform better to the road being less stiff. I check mine with garden lime to see what the contact patch looks like. He was right as far as he went in cornering grip but he didn't go far enough. You can actually gain cornering grip by the sidewall flexing because it only flexes so far because if it didn't the tire would flex until it came off the rim. The sidewall flex actually allows the tire to maintain the contact patch, like on my 71 mustang that stock came with F70/14 and I ran them at 22psi for maximum grip. Yes in curves it gave a "greasy" feel until it had flexed as much as it would but then it was planted through some remarkably tight S curves at over 100mph.
@@robertkubrick3738 The difference we feel because of wider tires is due to the increase in thread grooves which helps with friction. For a perfectly flat road and flat tyres without grooves, the traction part will hold. To illustrate we can think of stair inclined to a wall. If you put stair feet big enough on a smooth surface, there are more chances of stair sliding down.
Is incredible how most people (even engineers) think that wide tires offer more grip and they consider me crazy for telling (and explaining) them why they are wrong. A clear example of everything you explained is 70s F1 cars, that mounted narrow and small front tires and wide and large rear tires (a lot of power and heat to distribute well)
Ones is theory and another is practice. You’ll have noticeably more grip on a slow car turning fast on wider wheels with low profiles then stock wheels. It does consume more fuel and you need to calculate fitment. But performance is definitely noticed when getting wider wheels turning around corners
Transcription: Everyone likes buying low profile tires like sports cars. When you (?) put it on you are not so sports car (?) to look cool, you can feel every road imperfections, get a load of flat tires, and a fuel drinking monster. So after spending so much money you get the question: Why do these tires even exist? And do they offer any performance advantage? Why do sports cars use it at all? In this video, we'll answer all these questions. So, let's untangle how low vs high profile tires and wide vs narrow tires vary in performance. To understand the effects of low and high profile tires, let's compare two wheels of the same outer diameter but one with bigger rims and low profile tires, and another with smaller wheels and high profile tires. Rubber is like zewel (?) having more or less of it has its own advantages and disadvantages. High profile tires has more flexibility. So on boat holds (?), speed bumps, and bad roads, the tire itself absorbs more shock. That's why most cars, trucks, and offroaders use high profile tires. The high profile tires also has its own disadvantages due to more flexibility, like wrinkling at high acceleration, which is just not good for tire life, and tire deflection and cornering,
Thank you for such thorough description. Wish I saw before I got my new wheels and rubber. I hope just 2cm wont cause significant disadvantage on the new wheels I have on. Went from 225 ( stock) to 245 width
I don't care what anyone else says, what you said at the end of the video is very True to me, performance is *Always* more important than aesthetics (Just like the saying goes: "Don't judge a book by its looks") 👍🏻...
I have a 2019 Elantra base model. It's a slow econobox that came with 15in steelies. I swapped them out for some Veloster wheels 18in. They're on low profile tires and a bit wider than the 15in. I did it for the looks but was surprised to notice a HUGE improvement in handling. It corners so much better and the car feels much more planted and stable overall. MPG did go down a hair but the handling improvement is worth it.
Yeah I have the exact same car and I also decided to get 18x8 rims with 225 40 r18 tyres. The ride quality is definitely a bit more stiff on the road but the handling just feels way better
@@LuckyCharms777 Yes correct. Wider tire needs heavier vehicle weight to resist aquaplaning/hydroplaning. That's why sports cars use much wider tires because they are heavyweight.
@@johnyonardpauly5601 Nice sarcasm. Tire sizing and construction for sports cars is generally chosen for best performance in dry weather. Wider tires will have better traction on wet roads due to their larger contact patch, but standing water (puddles) will cause easier hydroplaning precisely because of the tire width and the lighter vehicle weight of sports cars compared to other vehicles.
Low profile( more metal, less rubber) + wide tire add more lateral stiffness and more linear behavior to the car. That mean quicker steering wheel input response and easier to handle, good for sport cars.
We use the low profile tires for many reason, but one it to help prevent the tire from getting ripped off the rim when doing 80mph + around a bend/turn.
Larger rims are just for looks. Not for practical reasons or performance reasons. F1 the pinnacle of motor sports always had small rims 13" Inches The only reason they enlarged it is due to fashion not because of performance. Since most cars now have large rims, for the sport to appear relevant to viewers and attract casual viewers, they increased the rims to be visually relatable. PS: for those that claim smaller walled tyres give stiffer better handling, the same can be achieved on the larger tyre walls if the designer had intended for the walls to be stiff.
Depends on what you calling "low" profile. IMO most passenger cars should have a sidewall of between 90-100mm. I've changed my ford focus 2ltd from 205/60r16 to 235/40r18 which has changed sidewall from 123mm down to 94mm and given me 30mm wider, best thing I've done so far. But I don't consider that low for driving in Australia.
I bet it gave your gearing a boost! Unless your speedometer was recalibrated, you probably think you are going really fast and that you are getting fantastic fuel mileage....when the reverse is true.
*Me:* I agree performance over aesthetics *Some People:* Let's put super large wheels with tiny low profile tires. The rims rub on the frame and fender if you try to turn and any pothole larger then an inch will bend the rim but most importantly.. It looks cool!
Ok, my BMW X5 has 19" diameter rims, the front is 9" wide and the rear are 10" wide. The car is an all-wheel-drive diesel 3 ltr 6 cyl and whilst it does have a transfer case it does not have high or low ratios. The drive split is 49/51 front/rear and the weight is just over 2 tonnes without passengers or load. It handles like a sports car, except for the ride height and runs on 255/50R19 front 285/35R19 rear. By driving sensibly, I have already defied the book's figures in relation to fuel consumption. I definitely agree with you on your analysis of oversizing your wheels for looks will cost you at the fuel pump and the comfort, I have been through that phase myself and experienced exactly as you said. I soon changed to a point I believed was the sweet spot between looks and economy back then. But now, I am truly baffled by this offset wheel assembly that is a factory fitting and on an all-wheel-drive vehicle. Also the ability to get better than stated fuel economy and not by any onboard computer, but by measured mileage and refill data. If you have any views, I would be glad to hear them.
I gotta say... I really don't like indian accent. Buuuut yours is pretty acceptable, your information is accurate and explained to be so easy to understand, you have now another subscriber.
I punctured a low profile tire in front right at 120kph. Non accident because the car drives normally. Most importantly, it carriednus foe the next 80nkolometers without air. I was still able to use in the next four days with no air. Amazing
I disagree on handling part of wide tires because when you're doing performance driving on twisty roads wider tyres keep the car more in control while taking corners from but there is thing about going too wide as it does increase unnecsessary fuel consumption and this annoying deadzone on the steering wheel so finding the right width for your specific car and your driving skills is important
What he's saying is the wider the tire the less pressure (from weight, per square inch) on the contact patch. Imagine a pinpoint contact patch on a rear wheel of a 4,000lb car. That point, in this made up scenario, would have all 1000lbs from, let's say, the left rear of the vehicle. Now the wider you go with bigger contact patch, that 1000lb is spread out more across the contact patch, and less pressure pressing the tire against the ground per square inch of contact patch, thus the need for downforce. I'm glad he talked about that because I was not thinking about that at all, I just figured the wider the better, but clearly this is not true unless you have enough pressure (from weight or downforce) per square inch of your contact patch to keep the tire from slipping
@@koencarter4347 but would it really matter? it is less pressure but a bigger area, the total force is still the same obviously, and that applies to the lateral forces and pressures as well while going around a turn since the lateral forces on the contact patch are what keep you from sliding, but if you have the same total force on the contact patch then your lateral force has not change. only place I could see this being a problem is on the front tires since they are the ones turning and having different width tires on the front can make your car handle much differently but most people do not put very wide tires on the front unless it is front wheel drive and they are drag racing
I think whatever combination of pressure and width gets you just under the maximum force the rubber can take before shredding off when accelerating is ideal
i had 215 55% tires on my civic and only because of this i didnt snap my rim when i hit curb at 50km/h and later a sign that stopped exactly at my wheel all hail the high profile!
I swapped out my 205/55R16 tires for 225/40R18 on my "not so sports car" BMW E46 and they feel a lot better in all categories, except for comfort. In the rain they are so much better and in dry conditions they also feel more responsive. But this is just one single example. I'm sure other cars would have different results
225/40r19 front and 255/35r19 back, also on ap coils, bmw e46s handling is excellent, heavy rain can be a problem so good tires is needed. Going for Michelin pilot super sport this time. Wider is better for cornering when done correctly
if you listened closer he says something about it being bad only if you went too far, I think going from 205 to 225 shouldn't be a dramatic difference. My experience is kinda similiar to yours, had 225 on my camry and it had better handling and was way more stable in high speeds (120+) and drove much better in wet asphalt, but now I reverted to 205 for better fuel consumption. mind you that the camry comes in two profiles 225 for full option and 205 for standard which was my case originally.
I remember reading somewhere that the contact patch area is the same no matter the width of the tyre because the weight of the vehicle is he same. How it works is in narrower tyres, the width is narrower, but the length of the contact patch is longer. In wider tyres, the width is wider, but the contact patch length is shorter.
Assuming everything else is equal (i.e. the same tire pressure), the contact patch area should stay the same regardless of the width of the tire. What you gain in width, you will loose in height of the contact patch.
Wider tires do not need downforce to provide more traction than narrower width tires in dry conditions. There is less tire deformation to the surface but the added contact patch more than makes up for it. There's a reason that autocross classes have restrictions on tire width because wider almost always means more traction. Look up tire load sensitivity.
You can lower tire pressure on tires that have greater capacity. I check my contact patch by driving over some garden lime to determine the correct inflation for my tires on my car, not the general recommendation from someone who doesn't know within a half ton what vehicle those tires will be on.
Moment of inertia (energy required to acellerate/decelerate it about a central point) of the wheel & tire combination increases with bigger weight, width, and the square of the radius. Also, outside diameter of wheel/tire may change the effective gear ratio. For economy, lightweight wheels(as long as they'll handle the the load) as close to the brakes as possible and a narrow tire will also have better fuel economy, bonus if it's a 'disc' style for a little bit of aero too...
Quite good video, but one small mistake: Wider tires on normal cars *does not* decrease grip in dry tarmac conditions. Rather it still increases grip a little bit. This is because If one calculates a tire as normal newtonian friction surface, one finds that the grip is always constant, no matter the contact patch. However, the tire when interacting with tarmac does not behave as a newtonian friction surface, so thats why the grip increases a bit with wider tires. But it never decreases in dry/solid friction surface conditions. Cheers.
Thank you for the detailed and Short video! I have learned a lot on the way Downforce on sports cars plays a key role together with Wide Tyres! Absolutely worth the watch!👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
%10,000 agree. Wide performance tires on snow… bad idea! I’m one who learnt the hard way. Never AGAIN will I have wide tires in winter, loved the look on my car but, the risk was too great! I bought winter tires the next day.
The "contact patch" is not really important, on dry surfaces, that is. Sure the contact patch is smaller if you fit larger/wider wheels on a light vehicle. But grip = friction coefficient of both surfaces x force. There's no area, no contact patch, in the formula. The increased grip generated by downforce (more force) would, EQUALLY, affect both smaller/thinner, and larger/wider tires. Provided you use wider tires that still work in the geometry of the suspension of your car, and both are made of the exact same rubber and driving on the same pavement, there should be no difference in grip. On a wet road however, the contact patch becomes a problem, if the tire is too wide, it does not apply sufficient pressure on the road, it becomes worse at moving water away, in this scenario you're more likely to hydroplane. I also disagree with the rolling resistance/fuel efficiency comment. Higher profile tires deform a lot more, this deformation of the rubber, specially in higher speeds, generates more heat. You're converting kinetic energy into heat. Provided the same material is used in both tires, the higher profile tires should waste more energy as heat.
the smaller the contact patch, the higher the pressure is between the ground and the tire material, which causes the rubber to sheer off the tire, Decreasing overall grip.
Like michael already said, wider tires will be softer most of the time. Noone is going to put wider tires on a car, that are made from the same material. You also change the friction coefficient. On a narrow tire you will have a hard compound with low friction coefficient as to not overload the tire. On a wider tire you can run a softer compound with a higher friction coefficient without tearing the tire to pieces by to high of a load.
There are many more factors to consider though. Rotational weight, for example. Another commenter mentioned larger wheels facilitating larger brakes. Basically there's a break-even point that will vary depending upon your goals and budget. As far as performance ALWAYS being more important than aesthetics, that is 100% subjective. 🤷🏽♂️
I have a 1.88 tonne Front-Wheel Drive Mid Size SUV, 2.2L 4cyl Diesel motor paired with an Aisin sourced 6 speed Torque Converter, front wheels biased AWD system (60:40). Stock produces 185HP and 450Nms...and I got it to Stage 1...now it's producing 231HP and 525Nms... The main point... Stock Bridgestone Tyres are not so wide (235/60/R18) and they are literally spinning their wheels every other moment because of so much low end toruqe on tap... Is it sensible to upgrade to 255/60/R18 Michellin Pilot Sport 4 to handle this kinda power?
Higher profile does offer more grip. Its all about sweet spot and you have to relate it with suspension which is super hard if non-existant in F1 and dragcars. But lets say about me that even i drive sporty i definitely prefer higher profile tires as 195x65r15.
One reason for the narrow tires used on snow stages is because of the shape of the contact patch. On asphalt stages, almost 100% of the grip comes from the tire's resistance against sliding, while on snow stages, there isn't much friction grip, so most of it comes from the tires "digging in" to the snow. Wide tires have a mostly square contact patch, which doesn't dig into the snow very well, while narrow tires almost act like a blade, cutting into the snow. Additionally, the more narrow contact patch almost acts like a rudder during cornering.
it was hard to hear him but he actually taught me something
Yea agree. Maybe better using Google text to speech
I am a native english speaker and I can't understand him. He's speaks too fast with a strong accent. Needs captions.
Yeah, I actually learnt something
Am African and literally heard every word,
@@PeterKnagge 😂
Low profile tires also allow installing larger brakes, which is important in sports cars as larger brakes heat up less and thus maintain better braking performance when being used a lot without sufficient time for cooling.
You should have said
With low profile tires you can install a bigger diameter rim in which allows bigger rotor clearance for larger brakes
Low profile doesnt equate to larger brakes 🤦♂️
That's depended in the rim size not the tires profile
F1 proves you dont need big brakes. Just make sure it gets cooling air
@@infectedharpy
They also use carbon ceramics. Has better thermal property and way more expensive. This is way more cost effective for 99 percent of the people.
@@infectedharpy Don't be silly Harpy. How well do you think those F1 brakes would be if they were half the thickness or diameter?
Those brakes are as big as the rules allow., if there were no rules you think the teams would be happy to stay as things are? No.
There is also a big issue not adressed in the video: Unsprung mass
Bigger rim diameter will add unsprung mass which has a negative effect on the power output of your car. You can compensate for that by using lighter wheels. Lighter because even same size rims from different manufacturers DO NOT weight the same. To get the best and most of your low profile setup you HAVE TO consider and compare wheel and rim combination. Even tyres do not weight the same. The less your combo weight will be the better your fuel economy and power output is going to be. If you ever experienced the feeling that your smaller rims allow you to go faster then your bigger ones (winter vs summer setup for example) then this is exactly the situation. Smaller rims and tyres usually weight less.
And then there are multiple other factors to consider. Like tyre stretching. If you want little to no tyre deformation when cornering to give you the most control over your car behavior you can stretch your tyres a bit. The more you stretch them the more precise they will react to any changes deviating from a straight forward movement. You can overstretch your tyres as well leaving your car easy to drift. Cool if that is your aim but not so cool if that is not your main goal (as it may easily send you off the road into some ditch).
Another thing to consider is your suspension. The stiffer yours is the more control it will give you. The softer it is the more forgiving it is. It highly depends on your target. What your aim is. You can have big wheels with soft suspension but also with stiff suspension. You can have the same with small wheels. Each combination will give you some benefits and some drawbacks as well.
It is not hard to understand it completely and then look for legal (and reasonable) alternatives to your current car setup but it is definetly wise to resarch first and try later.
True, and not only acceleration is impacted by the higher unsprung mass but also the suspensions and dampers will have a lot more work, thus potentially lower grip on bumpy road as your suspension may not manage to rebound in time to push the heavy wheel back on tarmac.
Only when installing a tire with a greater circumference and or wider than is going to be replacing the original tire. Same size tire but bigger wheel will weigh less in most cases. Because rubber steel belts per inch is heavier than most metals. You will then be simply replacing the heavy sidewall, for in most cases a few spokes and basically AIR. Tires are solid with metal cords bound inside the rubber compound, so essentially the sidewall you replace with wheel is just as solid/heavy as a wheel.
Now if you go with a Wider wheel than factory, that's where you add the unsprung weight. Though really for street use, it is best to stick to a 8-9" tire wheel combo anyways; purely for driving in the rain and flooded road conditions. A wide tire will hydroplane way before a factory size 7-8" tire will. The wider the tire the more water has to be removed from the contact patch at once to remain stable and in contact with the road.
Almost any rim you get will be much lighter than a factory option. You still have to weigh out if the lighter wheel is going to be safe enough for your weight of vehicle.
Stiffer suspension doesnt mean better just as soft ones dont mean worse, thats just the idea people get when entering both sportscars and regular cars, there are variables like suspension travel and dampening that play a huge part in this, for instance when you buy coil overs for a stiff sportcar, you can actually make it more comfortable and forgiving whilst more engaging and better for track driving, it all depends on the setup you prefer.
You shouldn't care about unsprung mass of the wheel almost at all if you're serious about performance. Aftermarket "sports wheels" are made light by having them be flimsy compared to OEM and racing wheels. They might deflect in camber more than +1.0deg/yG. Most of the wheel compliance comes from the wheel itself, not from the upright or geometry, actually. You might get +2.0deg/yG easily, which means you'd need to run -2.0deg additional static camber, which will noticeably decrease straightline grip.
Heavier racing wheels will add unsprung mass, but they will dramatically reduce wheel deflection. Heavier, wider tires will also dramatically increase grip. Due to this larger power racing cars usually have quite large unsprung mass. All that more unsprung mass will do is suck some power out, very minorly increase angular inertia if we're talking about wheels only here and they will decrease the unsprung damping ratio of the wheel which can be good or bad depending on the other damping ratios and the surface the tire will land on when it loads again. Brakes barely increase angular inertia at all so go as big on those as you can, the mass increase will not be a problem.
Carbon wheels are starting to come out which allow a kind of best of both worlds, though.
To slow the F1 cars down they have made them use larger diameter rims...
Also - a couple of decades ago I bought a Jaguar that had factory fitted but massive wheels - 20" or something - it was second hand with about 40k miles on it but it was very noisy over bumps. I took it to a specialist and he showed me every suspension bush was shot and needed replacing. This was a combination of Jaguar at the time not having the best quality components but mostly the super low profile tires smashing the hell out of a suspension set-up designed for high side wall very compliant tires.
This is what happens when you sport up a luxury saloon.
Big rims are for 14 year olds and concept cars.
I was planning to change the 15'' alloy to 17'' alloy tiers but after watching your video I feel comfortable with the existing 15'' alloy tiers. Thank you...
I want to change my r15 with r17
I have my car with low profile tires and 17 inch magswheels. It was a showroom unit displayed at the dealer and not in other dealer as few unit are shift from overseas to here in middle east . If you have a performance car it is not advisable to change the rims to smaller ones as it will compromise the performance the underchassis shocks, steering, was design for that. If you are not to spend much on upgrading your wheels just follow what good or suited for your car or follow what your heart desire otherwise stick with the stock or whatever the car have when you pick it up at the dealer.
15 look ugly
@@jeffa4822 I agree but if they are there in your vehicle, it's because they would perform the best with that body and engine. If we would change that it would impact the performance, wear & tear, suspension and many other things..
@@RajVeerEkSoch i used 195/60 tyre with my R15, its looks great because 60 hi profile tyre make it fully placed to the space. I make it lowerd to 2 fingger and it still looks good.
The handling of low profile tires is much harder than stock tires. You can almost feel the concrete road in low profile tires versus the stock tires which offer a smooth & comfortable ride.
Yeah, its horrific. I remember in 90s cars have 13" or 14" wheels, and roads were much worse but ride quality was better then. Some routes even acted like cradle.
I know a guy who once tried to drive his parent’s SUV with low profile tires on a rocky dirt road and he blew his tire. I’ve driven on the same road with normal tires and didn’t have any issues. Kinda defeats the idea of an SUV being off-road capable when it’s tires can’t handle it.
@@jerro1446 What idiot brings an SUV on to a rocky dirt road? Thats like taking a boat in to the dessert...
SUVs are the worst invention ever!
@@S2audicoupeS2 what
@@S2audicoupeS2 SUVs are good, it's just the low profile going on rocky roads
Great Video! I believe one thing can be added. Narrow tires INCREASE grip on loose surfaces, because they dig in much quicker. When a car is driving on a dirt (or snow) road, there's typically a layer of uncompacted soil (or snow) on top, a car basically floats on that layer, having next to no grip. A narrow tire with large treads will quickly throw away all that soil and grip to a much more dense layer beneath it. What's more, according to the law of conservation of momentum, soil launched rearwards by the car propells that car forward. I recommend checking out some footage from rally racing to see how that works. Rally cars spend most of their life is a slide to get more grip by digging in as fast as possible. And their dirt and snow(especially snow) tires are very narrow, too.
I had a '96 Accord EX F22b1/5spd some years back, and if anybody remembers the factory 15"x5.5" wheels, they were HEAVY. The 195/60-15 tires were barely adequate for the way I drove, especially with the car's 3009lb curb weight, so I replaced them with 17"x7" wheels, 215/45-17 tires, and the difference was night and day. The new setup was about 20% lighter, rode WAY better, and even though they were roughly ¼" taller, which dropped highway revs by about 200 (no advantage to dropped revs on the 145hp 2.2l), I got better mileage, most likely due to the weight savings. To take it up another notch, I installed adjustable ball joints, since the original ones were starting to show wear, and replaced all sway bar bushings with polyurethane. Cornering was much better, as was braking, but to take up some of the space around those tiny brakes, I switched the front calipers & discs to those from the station wagon, along with braided stainless hoses, and slightly more aggressive EBC brake pads. From there, my car had better manners, and braking than was ever intended, making my everyday sedan a LOT more fun to drive.
When you changed the front brakes, did you need to adjust the front/rear brake bias? Is this possible with the stock Accord brake system?
@cdjhyoung I didn't bother with bias at all. The braking was completely even, with no nose dive, just hunkered down way better than I expected.
I have a base model 2005 honda accord 4 cylinder, automatic with 195/65/15 tires on steel wheels . I want to switch them out for a set of 2005 acura tsx 17 inch 9 spoke wheels. Do you think this is a good idea? I also have a set of new aftermarket fapo coilovers from ebay that I intend to put on and lower my car. Thank you.
@TorontoGuy personally, I would do everything you mentioned, especially the wheels. There should be no fitment issues, and you probably know as well as I do that most any family sedan can be made to handle better.
@@A_Cowboy_called_JackRabbit thank you, you’re great. Do you think I’ll take a hit with fuel economy switching to wider tires?
I've watched tons of 20 minutes videos about this on TH-cam and this guy just taught me everything in 4 minutes. I guess the memes are true
that's y this is his last and only video becoz he is already out of content.. lol
@@maskedman-27 ummm no
A big factor in traction is also the treadwear rating on the tire ( higher number = less traction and more life, the lower the number = better traction and less life)
Not always look at traction and temperature ratings too, AA is better than A is better than B. The treadwear can be lower on a passenger car tire than on a UHP all season. Speed rating on tires also makes a difference a short lived S or T rated tire wont grip like a Z or W rated tire and I’ve had W rated UHP all season tires that lasted longer and gripped just as well as a W rated UHP summer tire. Better in wet weather too
“Performance is always more important than aesthetics”
Me: *looking through the corner of my eye after putting sports tire on my 1997 Toyota* 👀
"Im Ready for the Big League"
PUT THEM 🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾
Same here on my Subaru.
hey, which model?
*puts slicks*
Previous owner of my toyota corolla -95 had changed wide low profile(195/50 r15) tires to the car. Didnt realise how terrible they are, before i switched to manufactor recomended tire(175/65 r14). What a difference in handling, noise and drivability on uneven surfaces!
i don’t think 195/50 is a low profile tire, low profile tires are 40 under but 195 is wide enough for a r15. Currently using 225/35 r18 and they sure hell needs to be driven carefully.
another thing to consider is total mass or the wheel, as rotating mass is more significant and smaller rims usually result in lower rotating weight on the vehicle as tires are in general lighter than even most alloy wheels, making the vehicle more nimble
I have a 1.88 tonne Front-Wheel Drive Mid Size SUV, 2.2L 4cyl Diesel motor paired with an Aisin sourced 6 speed Torque Converter, front wheels biased AWD system (60:40). Stock produces 185HP and 450Nms...and I got it to Stage 1...now it's producing 231HP and 525Nms...
The main point...
Stock Bridgestone Tyres are not so wide (235/60/R18) and they are literally spinning their wheels every other moment because of so much low end toruqe on tap...
Is it sensible to upgrade to 255/60/R18 Michellin Pilot Sport 4 to handle this kinda power?
People think alloys are automatically lighter but it isn't so. Those factory steel rims can be very light especially in light of government regulations on fuel mileage these days, and cheaply replaced if they get bent.
So that's why some heavy vehicles have a set of tires that are floating. This video was very insightful.
I changed from wider tires to stock tires and the handling of my car is much better. Civic VIII has stiff suspension so before the change i could feel every single bump in the road. Now its much better and driving the car is pure joy. Good vid.
I fully understand the theory explained in this video, but reality is that most UHP tire are wider than their touring counterparts. If you switch from standard or touring tires to Ultra High High Performance summer tires with a slightly wider and lower profile size you will definitely feel a big performance difference. It’s mostly a matter of the compound and tread pattern, but in the end you get a big boost in performance.
I wish I saw this video 2 weeks ago before I fitted new tires but thankfully I think I got the perfect purpose fitment anyway. Great video
That Model S in your video is my car with 21” wheels. LOL. I’ve had my share of flat tires, so I switched them out for 19” wheels. I’m a happier camper now.
"Performance is more important than aesthetics." Gold!
4:16
I have had both, but honestly if you want a smoother ride, you have to go with high profile tires because you get a much comfortable ride and won't feel those bumps on the road like with low profile tires.
Minimum rim width for the tire size will make it more cushy. Taller sidewall tires can use narrower rim widths for a larger sectional diameter. Taller sidewall is just more forgiving.
Absolutely agree / car manufacturers know, which tires are the best 👍
I’m of the opinion that this information applies to 4WD’s as well as on-road vehicles.
The key points being;
1. Downward force on standard tires = less chance of wheel spin (except where the vehicle is operating close to and/or fully loaded at all times, one or two tire sizes above standard would be advantageous as there is a higher downward force)
2. Wider tires are going to strike more obstacles on the track therefore stressing mechanical components and greater chances of a tire puncture
3. When the tires sink / break through the track surface they need to push more mud / snow / sand out of the way there slowing or stopping forward progress
4. Wider wheels / tires add to the vehicles kerb weight giving less carrying capacity
5. Wider wheels / tires cost more and decrease fuel efficiency = more time at work and less time enjoying your life !
I agree with all of it except point #4. Carrying capacity really isn't from from the tire up, but from the suspension up. Wheels and tires tend to be able to handle a lot more weight than the suspension/frame allows. The weight in the wheel isn't being carried, it is doing the carrying. On top of that: the bigger the footprint, the more it can carry, since it spreads the weight out over a bigger surface area.
unless they are mag wheels
I thin k you left out a very important thing for offroaders to know. When you air down the narrow tire for rock crawling grip, you have to air down wide tires to the point of risking bead separation to get significant grip/deformation (2 inch). The narrow tires will do it at safe pressures and the contact patch really isn't that different even when aired up.
Good points Robert.
Somewhat agree, just like you said if you don't change the dimensions of the wheel dramatically then it's ok. Like for example if going from a 185 or 195 to a 205 or 215 tyre in width it will increase braking performance and more stability and fuel consumptions mostly depends on the tyre compound and the brand of the tyre if you step up 10-20mm in width. If you buy a better quality tyre which is wider it might get better fuel consumption with increased grip, stability in cornering, better acceleration and better braking. Decreasing your sidewall a little bit will help with increasing performance without sacrificing a significant amount of comfort. Comfort depends on sidewall height, tyre quality, shock absorbers and suspension travel, and most importantly vehicle weight. You can't drive a Golf and expect a smooth ride, or a Chevrolet Spark. There is a reason why bigger and luxurious cars have a smoother ride. Also here's more complexity to this question, if you increase the quality of the tyre, for example you drive RoadX tyres which are low budget and switch to Michelins with a smaller sidewall and a bigger rim you might experience better bump handling and a smoother ride because the Michelin is a better quality tyre. Putting sportier tyres on your nonsporty vehicle will make it handle better but you will need other parts upgraded as well like brakes and shocks, because it's useless driving a monster truck of a car with sporty tyres. It's a somewhat complex question, you really need knowledge to find the right tyre for your vehicle. Stay safe out there.
This has been one of the most helpful/ informational videos I’ve ever watched on this subject, thank you
My old car had 175/70R13
It was super comfy ride. Friends and colleges always asked me to put 15s on it.
im tempted to buy some 13” wheels for miata, what was your old car and were those 13” stock for it?
@@skrridw9212 Daewoo Lanos
Bro put some 15's with 205/50/15 tires. They are also a good size. They are still a kinda high profile and its wider which is better grip.
Are they as noisy as regular size tires?
@@hondaboi8195 I sold that car 2 years ago. 13" tired costed $40 a peice fitted.
Put the playback speed at 0.75
Youll thank me when you do.
Great info tho!
Thx mate❤
Racist 😂
Good video. The only benefit with low profile tyres is the aesthetics. Most of us don't need the low profile tyres to do "high speed cornering" in our everyday cars. On the other hand, the comfort goes south with low profile tyres. Amazing how so many people walk into a tyre and wheel shop to downgrade their cars.
If you tire is wider, you have more rubber to take the impact, than a narrow tire. Some low pro tires, can be just as comfortable as stock high pro tires, if the width is also increased, and the compounds used in the rubber are not super hard, and the psi is the same or lower. More stability with less deflection is a big safety upgrade as well. If you have to make a sharp turn to avoid an accident, take off from a stop quickly to avoid getting rear ended, or need to stop fast to avoid a front end collision, a wide low pro, is going give you that added performance, grip, and stability needed to avoid certain death. A wider contact point will also last longer, because there is less load per contact area. Wider all season tires usually also have better water deflection patterns to help alleviate hydroplaning. There are a ton of advantages of low pro performance tires over balloon tires, and aesthetics is just one benefit.
Offroaders typically prefer bigger tyres over wider tyres as that gives more contact patch when deflated.
Short, simple and to the point. Excellent
Replaced 205/55R16 with 225/40R18 wheels with fresh tires on not-so-sporty sedan. Result is more stable cornering, better grip, less road noise. The only observed negative effect is increased lateral torque on the wheels, as evidenced by more tug on the steering wheel when on uneven roads.
Guess it a a BMW. . . Plan changing my stock 225/55r16 to a 225/50r18
The lower road noise is most likely a result of other factors such as a different tyre compound and/or tread pattern, not the dimensions.
You may have changed the tyre model as the models available between R16 and R18 are generally different.
In fact, the same model name can have very different attributes between dimensions.
R18 usually has more premium tyres.
@@user-lv9my6jw3x yeah, the reduction in road noise is definitely due to the new tires being fresh more than anything else. :)
The new ones are Nexen N'Fera SU4s, the old ones were like 8 year old Continentals. Just the age of the rubber is going to make a huge difference.
The car no longer swaying at all at high speed, though, is more down to wheel geometry.
I changed my bmw supras tires from 255/35/r19 and 275/35s/r19 to 265/35/r19 and 285/35/r19. The car still feels glued to the road
@@peterjohnson9438 Agreed.
I had Dunlops that were exposed to direct, African, sunlight and the tyres became bricks. And they weren't brilliant tyres to start off with (but decent for budget tyres). I aquaplaned and got Yokohama BluEarth ES32 tyres shortly after. Same dimensions but night and day difference.
Ever since then I've always forked out for premium tyres.
I recently got a double-on-not-so-sporty 12th gen Corolla that came standard with below mid-range Dunlops (225/40 R18).
I replaced them rather quickly with Pilot Sport 4 tyres (same dimensions).
More grip (especially when cold), better aquaplaning resistance, better impact feel but oddly higher road noise (especially on rough tarmac).
I've switched between tyre brands and models over the years and have found Michelin to have the best road tyres with (usually) the highest amount of dry and wet grip. They normally fall a bit short in the wear department but all things considered, excellent tyres.
the lift axle BLEW my mind
I had no idea it's purpose was to save fuel by avoiding unnecessary rolling resistance, that is beautiful!
wow, the quality of that video just amazed me, the way is edited,the sound quality, AMAZING.
The one thing not addressed is the 'coolness' factor of the low vs high profile tires. In all seriousness, this is a great educational video that most males (and yes, some females as well) 16 - 25 years old should watch.
High profile tires are 200% cooler let’s be real
I was hoping to hear about the moment of inertia for various tire/rim combinations and their impact on performance.
exact unsprung max is very important for handdling and for better driving dynamics. A lot of sports cars brands try to reduce rim weight by using carbon fiber + with that it's lighter than normal one and even better on cornering because carbon fiber is lighter there is less inertia and more stiffer so very precise but cost a lot and can't be repared if it cracks
@@enai-lo
The need for lightness & strength is why one goes ‘forged’- if they have the dough lying around...
@@coreyoliver3653 forged isn’t expensive when you don’t pay for the brand name.
This was clear and concise. It totally eases my mind and I'm finally settled on selling my 19s and reinstalling the factory 15s. Thank you.
Are you serious? 😅
Depends on a car but 18" is a sweet spot imo
In a very simple situation where tire width is increased from say 195 to 205, there is a HUGE benefit in handling performance if all other factors are kept the same. I noticed this on my 500 Abarth, and I can safely say I made the better choice. Car feels more stable at high speeds (80MPH+) and cornering grip increased dramatically from the wider contact patch. I believe this video is touching extreme case scenarios, and not everyday enthusiast performance upgrades. If it was meant to steer people away from such upgrades, then this guy should try it on his own car and then remake this video.
I don't understand much of the subject, but the one point the video seemed to get wrong to me was the traction part. I don't think the wider tires have less traction as the video say, and I think it shouldn't be more traction as you say either. Since the wider the tire there will be less weight per unit of area, thus less traction per unit of area, but proportionally more area to compensate, leading to same overall traction, with less wear on wider tires. So the determinant factor should be the type of rubber, as well as tread design.
@@lucasrfma yes, you make sense, but neither of us have done the math. Because I believe the big difference is noticed when you go from say a 165 tire to a 265. But a change from 195 to 205 does not solicit that much of a weight distribution change, however, surface area difference is enough to help take corners at 5MPH more
@@lucasrfma Pretty sure he misspoke and didn't bother to correct it. In my experience, wider tires on the same rim require a slight change in pressure to achieve optimum contact patch which makes the tire conform better to the road being less stiff. I check mine with garden lime to see what the contact patch looks like. He was right as far as he went in cornering grip but he didn't go far enough. You can actually gain cornering grip by the sidewall flexing because it only flexes so far because if it didn't the tire would flex until it came off the rim. The sidewall flex actually allows the tire to maintain the contact patch, like on my 71 mustang that stock came with F70/14 and I ran them at 22psi for maximum grip. Yes in curves it gave a "greasy" feel until it had flexed as much as it would but then it was planted through some remarkably tight S curves at over 100mph.
@@robertkubrick3738 The difference we feel because of wider tires is due to the increase in thread grooves which helps with friction. For a perfectly flat road and flat tyres without grooves, the traction part will hold. To illustrate we can think of stair inclined to a wall. If you put stair feet big enough on a smooth surface, there are more chances of stair sliding down.
@@prashantsingh1911 Unfortunately what you have posted has nothing to do with what I posted.
Performance is more important than aesthetics, thank you🙂
Having wider/low profile wheel set on your not so sports car may also improve braking.
Road noise is my only issue with my low profile wide tyres
He humiliated us by saying our car is not so sports one 😒
True, but wide tires may work against you in wet, snow, and muddy conditions if tire is not under heavy load.
As would lowering the car.
It was hard to hear his pronunciation but his information is quite valuable
What the hell did he say???
Bloody nice guy though…. 😂
Namaste mate
Who cares 😂
How to achieve unlimited happiness.
😂😂😂😂
Is incredible how most people (even engineers) think that wide tires offer more grip and they consider me crazy for telling (and explaining) them why they are wrong. A clear example of everything you explained is 70s F1 cars, that mounted narrow and small front tires and wide and large rear tires (a lot of power and heat to distribute well)
I first read about this about 30 years ago and yet as you say it is still relatively unknown.
Ones is theory and another is practice. You’ll have noticeably more grip on a slow car turning fast on wider wheels with low profiles then stock wheels. It does consume more fuel and you need to calculate fitment. But performance is definitely noticed when getting wider wheels turning around corners
The punch line is great "Performance is always more important than aesthetic"
Transcription:
Everyone likes buying low profile tires like sports cars. When you (?) put it on you are not so sports car (?) to look cool, you can feel every road imperfections, get a load of flat tires, and a fuel drinking monster. So after spending so much money you get the question:
Why do these tires even exist? And do they offer any performance advantage? Why do sports cars use it at all? In this video, we'll answer all these questions.
So, let's untangle how low vs high profile tires and wide vs narrow tires vary in performance.
To understand the effects of low and high profile tires, let's compare two wheels of the same outer diameter but one with bigger rims and low profile tires, and another with smaller wheels and high profile tires. Rubber is like zewel (?) having more or less of it has its own advantages and disadvantages. High profile tires has more flexibility. So on boat holds (?), speed bumps, and bad roads, the tire itself absorbs more shock. That's why most cars, trucks, and offroaders use high profile tires. The high profile tires also has its own disadvantages due to more flexibility, like wrinkling at high acceleration, which is just not good for tire life, and tire deflection and cornering,
Thank you for such thorough description. Wish I saw before I got my new wheels and rubber. I hope just 2cm wont cause significant disadvantage on the new wheels I have on. Went from 225 ( stock) to 245 width
Probably just ride smoother.
“Performance is more important than aesthetics”
Stance community: no🗿
I don't care what anyone else says, what you said at the end of the video is very True to me, performance is *Always* more important than aesthetics (Just like the saying goes: "Don't judge a book by its looks") 👍🏻...
*Don’t judge a book by its cover.
@@LuckyCharms777 Thank you, English isn't my first language X ) ...
@@MiguelMedV
No problem. 👍
I have a 2019 Elantra base model. It's a slow econobox that came with 15in steelies. I swapped them out for some Veloster wheels 18in. They're on low profile tires and a bit wider than the 15in. I did it for the looks but was surprised to notice a HUGE improvement in handling. It corners so much better and the car feels much more planted and stable overall. MPG did go down a hair but the handling improvement is worth it.
Be careful in wet weather, wider tires hydroplane easier because they trap water, whereas skinny tires slice through the standing water.
Yeah I have the exact same car and I also decided to get 18x8 rims with 225 40 r18 tyres. The ride quality is definitely a bit more stiff on the road but the handling just feels way better
@@LuckyCharms777 Yes correct. Wider tire needs heavier vehicle weight to resist aquaplaning/hydroplaning. That's why sports cars use much wider tires because they are heavyweight.
@@johnyonardpauly5601
Nice sarcasm. Tire sizing and construction for sports cars is generally chosen for best performance in dry weather. Wider tires will have better traction on wet roads due to their larger contact patch, but standing water (puddles) will cause easier hydroplaning precisely because of the tire width and the lighter vehicle weight of sports cars compared to other vehicles.
Can i upgrade to 215/60/R16 on my existing 205/60/R16 stock Elantra.
Yeah, when I put wide wheels and wide tires on my Prelude, I loved how it drove.
Low profile( more metal, less rubber) + wide tire add more lateral stiffness and more linear behavior to the car. That mean quicker steering wheel input response and easier to handle, good for sport cars.
We use the low profile tires for many reason, but one it to help prevent the tire from getting ripped off the rim when doing 80mph + around a bend/turn.
Performance is not always more important than aesthetics! Enjoying your vehicle is most important
it’s not miles per gallon, it’s smiles per gallon!
Larger rims are just for looks.
Not for practical reasons or performance reasons.
F1 the pinnacle of motor sports always had small rims 13" Inches
The only reason they enlarged it is due to fashion not because of performance.
Since most cars now have large rims, for the sport to appear relevant to viewers and attract casual viewers, they increased the rims to be visually relatable.
PS: for those that claim smaller walled tyres give stiffer better handling, the same can be achieved on the larger tyre walls if the designer had intended for the walls to be stiff.
Depends on what you calling "low" profile. IMO most passenger cars should have a sidewall of between 90-100mm. I've changed my ford focus 2ltd from 205/60r16 to 235/40r18 which has changed sidewall from 123mm down to 94mm and given me 30mm wider, best thing I've done so far. But I don't consider that low for driving in Australia.
In what ways is it best?
@@frv6610 only to look cool XD
I bet it gave your gearing a boost! Unless your speedometer was recalibrated, you probably think you are going really fast and that you are getting fantastic fuel mileage....when the reverse is true.
*Me:* I agree performance over aesthetics
*Some People:* Let's put super large wheels with tiny low profile tires. The rims rub on the frame and fender if you try to turn and any pothole larger then an inch will bend the rim but most importantly.. It looks cool!
That was Great thanks Chief Keep going !
Ok, my BMW X5 has 19" diameter rims, the front is 9" wide and the rear are 10" wide. The car is an all-wheel-drive diesel 3 ltr 6 cyl and whilst it does have a transfer case it does not have high or low ratios. The drive split is 49/51 front/rear and the weight is just over 2 tonnes without passengers or load. It handles like a sports car, except for the ride height and runs on 255/50R19 front 285/35R19 rear. By driving sensibly, I have already defied the book's figures in relation to fuel consumption. I definitely agree with you on your analysis of oversizing your wheels for looks will cost you at the fuel pump and the comfort, I have been through that phase myself and experienced exactly as you said. I soon changed to a point I believed was the sweet spot between looks and economy back then. But now, I am truly baffled by this offset wheel assembly that is a factory fitting and on an all-wheel-drive vehicle. Also the ability to get better than stated fuel economy and not by any onboard computer, but by measured mileage and refill data. If you have any views, I would be glad to hear them.
I gotta say... I really don't like indian accent. Buuuut yours is pretty acceptable, your information is accurate and explained to be so easy to understand, you have now another subscriber.
Very very informative. Thank you! Now I know why I crashed after 7 years
As someone that runs both, low profile tires give you much more feeling of the car under you, so you can understand how your rear wheels are doing.
U made tyre basics super clear man thanks for sharing your knowledge
Fantastic, very dense with information and covered many key areas. Exactly what I was looking for.
Really thoroughly explained. Good video.
I punctured a low profile tire in front right at 120kph. Non accident because the car drives normally. Most importantly, it carriednus foe the next 80nkolometers without air. I was still able to use in the next four days with no air. Amazing
I disagree on handling part of wide tires because when you're doing performance driving on twisty roads wider tyres keep the car more in control while taking corners from but there is thing about going too wide as it does increase unnecsessary fuel consumption and this annoying deadzone on the steering wheel so finding the right width for your specific car and your driving skills is important
What he's saying is the wider the tire the less pressure (from weight, per square inch) on the contact patch. Imagine a pinpoint contact patch on a rear wheel of a 4,000lb car. That point, in this made up scenario, would have all 1000lbs from, let's say, the left rear of the vehicle. Now the wider you go with bigger contact patch, that 1000lb is spread out more across the contact patch, and less pressure pressing the tire against the ground per square inch of contact patch, thus the need for downforce. I'm glad he talked about that because I was not thinking about that at all, I just figured the wider the better, but clearly this is not true unless you have enough pressure (from weight or downforce) per square inch of your contact patch to keep the tire from slipping
@@koencarter4347 but would it really matter? it is less pressure but a bigger area, the total force is still the same obviously, and that applies to the lateral forces and pressures as well while going around a turn since the lateral forces on the contact patch are what keep you from sliding, but if you have the same total force on the contact patch then your lateral force has not change. only place I could see this being a problem is on the front tires since they are the ones turning and having different width tires on the front can make your car handle much differently but most people do not put very wide tires on the front unless it is front wheel drive and they are drag racing
I think whatever combination of pressure and width gets you just under the maximum force the rubber can take before shredding off when accelerating is ideal
I totally agree with you man
i had 215 55% tires on my civic and only because of this i didnt snap my rim when i hit curb at 50km/h and later a sign that stopped exactly at my wheel
all hail the high profile!
I swapped out my 205/55R16 tires for 225/40R18 on my "not so sports car" BMW E46 and they feel a lot better in all categories, except for comfort. In the rain they are so much better and in dry conditions they also feel more responsive. But this is just one single example. I'm sure other cars would have different results
225/40r19 front and 255/35r19 back, also on ap coils, bmw e46s handling is excellent, heavy rain can be a problem so good tires is needed. Going for Michelin pilot super sport this time. Wider is better for cornering when done correctly
@@jorredegendt5408 this is my only car so I'm sticking to maximum 18 inches for the practicality
if you listened closer he says something about it being bad only if you went too far, I think going from 205 to 225 shouldn't be a dramatic difference. My experience is kinda similiar to yours, had 225 on my camry and it had better handling and was way more stable in high speeds (120+) and drove much better in wet asphalt, but now I reverted to 205 for better fuel consumption. mind you that the camry comes in two profiles 225 for full option and 205 for standard which was my case originally.
The best compromise on BMW e 46 or e90 225/45 R17
@@bogdanmaer3417 true. But I like the looks more than the handling
performance is more important than aesthetics. good line.
This was actually a really good explanation, I’m pleasantly surprised
I remember reading somewhere that the contact patch area is the same no matter the width of the tyre because the weight of the vehicle is he same. How it works is in narrower tyres, the width is narrower, but the length of the contact patch is longer. In wider tyres, the width is wider, but the contact patch length is shorter.
Though there is less pressure per unit area of contact patch of the tire, the overall traction available will be greater with a wider tire.
Assuming everything else is equal (i.e. the same tire pressure), the contact patch area should stay the same regardless of the width of the tire. What you gain in width, you will loose in height of the contact patch.
I was trying to research this info a few hours ago. And it just popped up in my TH-cam feed. Thank you!! Super helpful!
Is there a possibility to do videos on suspension setup such as compression and rebound. Toe in and out pros and cons and camber?
After hearing the last line........ Me looking out the window at my car with 22 inch aftermarket rims 😂
22? That's like a rolling tank
Wider tires do not need downforce to provide more traction than narrower width tires in dry conditions. There is less tire deformation to the surface but the added contact patch more than makes up for it. There's a reason that autocross classes have restrictions on tire width because wider almost always means more traction. Look up tire load sensitivity.
You can lower tire pressure on tires that have greater capacity. I check my contact patch by driving over some garden lime to determine the correct inflation for my tires on my car, not the general recommendation from someone who doesn't know within a half ton what vehicle those tires will be on.
actually a really nice video, well done :)
Holy shhh that video was short and straight to the point. best one I found on the subject. Thank you so much!!!
Moment of inertia (energy required to acellerate/decelerate it about a central point) of the wheel & tire combination increases with bigger weight, width, and the square of the radius.
Also, outside diameter of wheel/tire may change the effective gear ratio.
For economy, lightweight wheels(as long as they'll handle the the load) as close to the brakes as possible and a narrow tire will also have better fuel economy, bonus if it's a 'disc' style for a little bit of aero too...
Exactly why I drive lightweight 15
WTF did he just say!?!?! The animation really helped on this one! Nice!
I keep my tyres and wheels ' stock ' as I'm not an automotive engineer.
Performance is always more important than aesthetics .
True words...
Write down in you car Bible's
Quite good video, but one small mistake: Wider tires on normal cars *does not* decrease grip in dry tarmac conditions. Rather it still increases grip a little bit.
This is because If one calculates a tire as normal newtonian friction surface, one finds that the grip is always constant, no matter the contact patch.
However, the tire when interacting with tarmac does not behave as a newtonian friction surface, so thats why the grip increases a bit with wider tires. But it never decreases in dry/solid friction surface conditions. Cheers.
Fascinating video. Learned a lot today.
Thank you for the detailed and Short video! I have learned a lot on the way Downforce on sports cars plays a key role together with Wide Tyres! Absolutely worth the watch!👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
expecting this guy to say hi my names kevin and your computer has a virus
Finally a video with answers to all my tire related questions 😂
"On Ur Not So Sports Car"
I've been thinking about installing 225/45R15 on my non sport shit box and this video make me reconsider .
Good video but I was hoping to hear about narrow tires and how they perform better in mud vs wide tires
Good traction in rain and snow, but horrible braking and dry acceleration.
Camber and caster needs to be explained aswel, cause they play mayor parts in this story
%10,000 agree. Wide performance tires on snow… bad idea! I’m one who learnt the hard way. Never AGAIN will I have wide tires in winter, loved the look on my car but, the risk was too great! I bought winter tires the next day.
The "contact patch" is not really important, on dry surfaces, that is.
Sure the contact patch is smaller if you fit larger/wider wheels on a light vehicle. But grip = friction coefficient of both surfaces x force. There's no area, no contact patch, in the formula.
The increased grip generated by downforce (more force) would, EQUALLY, affect both smaller/thinner, and larger/wider tires.
Provided you use wider tires that still work in the geometry of the suspension of your car, and both are made of the exact same rubber and driving on the same pavement, there should be no difference in grip.
On a wet road however, the contact patch becomes a problem, if the tire is too wide, it does not apply sufficient pressure on the road, it becomes worse at moving water away, in this scenario you're more likely to hydroplane.
I also disagree with the rolling resistance/fuel efficiency comment. Higher profile tires deform a lot more, this deformation of the rubber, specially in higher speeds, generates more heat. You're converting kinetic energy into heat. Provided the same material is used in both tires, the higher profile tires should waste more energy as heat.
the smaller the contact patch, the higher the pressure is between the ground and the tire material, which causes the rubber to sheer off the tire, Decreasing overall grip.
Much better explanation!
Like michael already said, wider tires will be softer most of the time. Noone is going to put wider tires on a car, that are made from the same material. You also change the friction coefficient. On a narrow tire you will have a hard compound with low friction coefficient as to not overload the tire. On a wider tire you can run a softer compound with a higher friction coefficient without tearing the tire to pieces by to high of a load.
I wanted to ignore the huge “y” on “tyres” but I couldn’t, you are doing a good effort but pay attention to those details
aesthetics is also important...best to strike balance
There are many more factors to consider though. Rotational weight, for example. Another commenter mentioned larger wheels facilitating larger brakes. Basically there's a break-even point that will vary depending upon your goals and budget. As far as performance ALWAYS being more important than aesthetics, that is 100% subjective. 🤷🏽♂️
I have a 1.88 tonne Front-Wheel Drive Mid Size SUV, 2.2L 4cyl Diesel motor paired with an Aisin sourced 6 speed Torque Converter, front wheels biased AWD system (60:40). Stock produces 185HP and 450Nms...and I got it to Stage 1...now it's producing 231HP and 525Nms...
The main point...
Stock Bridgestone Tyres are not so wide (235/60/R18) and they are literally spinning their wheels every other moment because of so much low end toruqe on tap...
Is it sensible to upgrade to 255/60/R18 Michellin Pilot Sport 4 to handle this kinda power?
Higher profile does offer more grip. Its all about sweet spot and you have to relate it with suspension which is super hard if non-existant in F1 and dragcars. But lets say about me that even i drive sporty i definitely prefer higher profile tires as 195x65r15.
you mean wider profile, right?
Potholes: we'd like to introduce ourselves
great video man
I always wondered why group 4 rally cars used pretty wide tyres in asphalt stages but used much narrower tyres in icy and snowy stages
One reason for the narrow tires used on snow stages is because of the shape of the contact patch. On asphalt stages, almost 100% of the grip comes from the tire's resistance against sliding, while on snow stages, there isn't much friction grip, so most of it comes from the tires "digging in" to the snow. Wide tires have a mostly square contact patch, which doesn't dig into the snow very well, while narrow tires almost act like a blade, cutting into the snow. Additionally, the more narrow contact patch almost acts like a rudder during cornering.
@@SupaKoopaTroopa64 that's awesome!
@@SupaKoopaTroopa64 awesome explanation. now it makes sense
So informative, I've always had that curiosity about tyre differences in cars.... Now I understand 🙏🙏
Low profile = best marketing
And that's why you get 2 set of wheels and tires, one set for winter one set for summer 😉 and if you track your car you must have a set for the track
Great video 👍🏼