Also the Republic: "Why are they suddenly neglecting our appeasement supplies... why are they suddenly bringing back mutilated corpses of our spokespeople... WHY ARE THEY *SUDDENLY* ATTACKING US?!?"
Padme Amidala: "I can't believe slavery still exists. The Republic's anti-slavery laws would have-" Shmi Skywalker: "The Republic doesn't exist out here. We must survive on our own."
While I hate the dialogue of the prequels, I think that interaction was a great display of how a privileged person who’s heart is in the right place can still miss the horrors of the world around them. It is also a good set up for Padme’s quest for justice throughout most of her career, so yeah, great writing and great acting.
Actually it was outside of it, but the sector it was in had little Republic presence, like how Geonosis became the first center of the Separatists before the Clone Wars. While it wasn’t in Hutt Space, Tatoonie may as well have been. It certainly wasn’t in Republic space at least. It’s not like the Republic could establish a presence. Come to Tatoonie and they will get the Hutt Clan all over them. Judicial Forces and the Jedi likely would get overrun by the full might of Hutt Space.
@@Josh_Hammond they don't think at all, they only care about making movies/shows/games for people who have little to no interest whatsoever in the franchise or its paraphernalia, except for buzzwords and the like
I don’t like defending Disney but they are pretty hands of with lucasarts only proving funding to them after they bought them a lot of their promblems are caused by internal problems that exist since the original trilogy just look at the rough cut of a new hope for Proof
The Republic was doomed even without the Sith interfering. Actually it would have fallen even worse without the Sith becoming the reason the Jedi decided to help.
Even after a THOUSAND YEARS of Sith scheming, it took an additional 13 years to do it. Without the Sith I feel the Republic would stand for many more centuries.
But it still lasted 25 000 years. Which is... honestly... unimaginable. I think we have a hard time grasping how absolutely gigantic that number is. Just to put things in perspective: On Earth, the last ice age ended 11 700 years ago...
@@cubescihist6737 But it wasn't one continuos government or civilization at all. For example, there's a huge dark age that lasts an entire millenia beetwen 2000 and 1000 BBY when, as far as I interpreted, it seems the Republic was either de-facto or de-jure non existant. So really I'd say the republic with its current order (the one culminating with thr Clone Wars) has existed for a thousand years, which is still an impressive amount of time nonetheless.
Well, basically. The Federation only cared about maintaining their cushy status quo located on Earth and only bothered with Space Colonies for resources, creating discontent for the Spacenoids as they didn't have a voice in matters related to them. Only difference is that what sparked the OYW and doomed the UC timeline to a big cycle of violence was the Zabi family taking advantage of the discontent to try getting tons of power for themselves
I would liken the relationship between the Core Worlds and the Outer Rim to that between urban and rural communities. Big cities use their massive populations to outvote and exploit their rural neighbors, just as the Core Worlds did to the Outer Rim territories.
Um, I’m pretty sure a common problem in democracies is how voting systems actually favor the more rural regions. When every region gets one vote each, that means a rural region a with far fewer people than an urban region with far more people has an equal amount of voting power. That wasn’t what happened in the Republic. It is more like how some nations have more development, more tech, and are richer while they have corporations obtain resources from the lesser developed regions without giving such regions anything in return. In Canon the High Republic Era, despite being an era of expansion, might have been an exception to this if it wasn’t for the Nihil attacks. Whatever wonder people in the Core and Inner Rim had for the Outer Rim was probably tainted with the image of Nihil to the point they just assumed the Outer Rim was controlled by criminals and pirates with no hope of becoming as advanced and high tech as them. They ignored the Outer Rim and left the corporations to do the dirty work and eventually the Outer Rim actually became what they thought it was thanks their neglect. Pirates and criminals thrives in the Outer Rim along with slave empires and other hostile non-democratic factions. They picked on the weak, but the Republic did nothing to stop this. They gave the megacorporations the power to expand security forces into militaries as large or larger than the Core World defense forces. Whenever the Republic itself did intervene with the Judicial Forces, they usually just stopped the conflict without addressing the issues that started the war in the first place. Things worked out differently with the Jedi who actually addressed the issues, but I doubt they were deployed to the Outer Rim often. Hence why megacorporations, empires, and the Sith keep finding followers and supporters in the Outer Rim. Honestly the Republic isn’t really evil. Though I wonder if calling it lazy or ignorant is an understatement. I would say perhaps in the eyes of the Republic’s citizens, the Republic only extended as far as the Mid Rim. This mindset lasted long enough for it to become a reality. Unfortunately for the Outer Rim the alternate options are never pure. The Separatists were controlled by the Sith and the Megacorporations who took advantage of their situation. The Empire did take interest and developed them only to exploit them in a new and possibly worst way. And the New Republic repeated the mistakes of the first Republic, even though they helped Rebel Cells liberate the Outer Rim. For an answer to this dilemma, I provide two. The first was instead of seceding they instead reform. Naboo opened eyes to the Core Rim that the corporations were out of control. However these reform efforts would take time. The second is to form their own government like the Separatists, just without the corporations. However due to the small economy and low development as well as underfunded defense forces, they are going to have to depend on the Republic for economic and military backing until they can stand on their feet, so the Jedi would have their hands full keeping such a relation from being exploited by the Republic. There are no easy answers to something that is the fault of multiple parties. Not just the Republic and the Jedi who mostly withdrew from the Outer Rim after the High Republic Era, but also the corporations, criminals, pirates, and small empires which took full advantage of this neglect.
@@joshpeck9266 Um, could you explain perofery? I don't get it. And while much of the Core were some of the biggest supporters of the Empire, there was a minority such as Alderaan and Chandrila who were pretty moral. Though to be honest, for all we know they were the only Core World exceptions instead of being the most famous ones.
@@tristankawatsuma8962 the reason most systems bias rural areas is because of the fact the cities would tyrannize the rural areas otherwise, and that isn't a hypothetical it's simple pattern recognition.
The Outer Rim really was an impossible place to govern, even with hyper lanes and instant communication it was simply to large and wild to control back in the Core Worlds. The Galactic Republic’s had a thousand years of peace and with it came a lax approach to governing, and while on paper it is fine form of government it made it really easy for corrupt corporations and individuals to abuse the resources and people of the Outer Rim. In truth the Galactic Republic need another capital world near the Mid Rim to govern the Outer Rim more effectively, if they wanted more control and influence there, but also a strong military presence to secure the region from pirates and troublesome elements from the Republic itself.
thats why the CIS picked raxus as its capital, in fact there should probably be a regional capitals and regional senates with delegated things to vote on.
The GR should've done what the late Roman Empire did: split, with multiple capitals and divided administrative duties. Central government would've certainly failed decades, possibly centuries sooner than it did. All your eggs in one basket makes a fucking mess if you get hit by a truck, I guess.
You can correct me if I'm wrong, but what I find most sad is that, both in Legends and in Canon, it was never shown if the New Republic made any attempt to improve on the errors of the previous one.
I can only speak for Canon, but they did to a partial extent. They mostly brought back the things seen in the pre-Clone Wars government because they didn't trust giving the executive and the military any power after the Empire. This of course led to the Senate grounding to a halt like before the Clone Wars, but they did address one concern the Separatists had, with how all the power seemed to be concentrated in the center of the galaxy, like the capital. So they made their capital mobile, basically, the New Republic would vote on where the capital would be located. While the first capital was Chandrila and the last capital was Hosnian Prime, both of which are in the Core Rim, it's likely the capital ended up in several different regions in between. As for Legends, it took the creation of the Galactic Alliance, the New Republic's successor, to try and create a fair balance between the executive and the legislative, basically trying to keep the sectors from having more power than the central government, though I don't think things worked out perfectly. Still in Canon, they addressed some concerns but not everything leading to the Populists standing for planetary and sector power while the Centrists stood for central government power.
The Republic turned into the Imperium of Man for a moment. Speaking of which. Geetsly, I think you covered this topic a few times already. Why not cover the issues with the Warhammer 40k Imperium of Man? Plenty of Lore there.
Ironically the imperium of man issues is also its strengths. I’ll give you an example: A local industrial world is having a better standard of living compared to other industrial world due to the beaucratic mess causing the tithe grade to be placed as low accidentally . Allowing its citizens to work with more free time and the local governor (if he’s not a corrupt jackass) being able to use said resources to enact policies increase standards of living and make a competent PDF force.
I get why people say the Clone Wars were inevitable given the social and economic conditions that surrounded the galaxy, but I doubt that it would be even close to as bad as what ended up happening. For starters, there likely would be multiple Separatist movements. The divisions between them would be regional and political. Democracies and autocracies themselves had their issues with the Republic, but it was thanks to Dooku that they worked together. These governments might form alliances together out of necessity, but I doubt they would make any lasting connections thanks to these differences. The mega corporations probably would try to sell battle droids and provide support to these movements. Pragmatism will encourage some to make such deals, but others may abide by the wills of their populace who will recall that most of the Republic's corruption was enacted upon them directly by these corporations. Then comes the issue of the Republic's response. I feel as Star Wars fans we forget that the Senate didn't just outright create an army in response to the Separatist Crisis that started in 24 BBY. They debated about making an army and navy, as seen in the debates for the Military Creation Act. For a government that had many militarists, it took two whole years for the Senate to reach the final vote. Palpatine took advantage of this time to have Dooku encourage violence among his Separatist supporters. He also intentionally refused to make negotiations with Palpatine throughout the crisis. The separatist movements in this non-Sith timeline likely won't take such violent actions, at least the majority would. Plenty would be diplomatic. We even see during the Clone Wars twice times when the Republic and Separatist Senates were on the same page. First, the Separatists offered to negotiate peace and the Republic was just about to vote on it when droids launched an attack on Coruscant's power grid. Later in the last year of the war, the Republic and Separatists were able to agree on having Rush Clovis become head of the Intergalactic Banking Clan. Once again, the Sith intervene via the Separatist forces. It took the Sith to keep pushing the war going on and on via their control of the two factions. Without that control, things may have gone more peacefully. Now let's say the Republic did create a military in response to the Separatists. Not everybody in the Separatists that wasn't with the corporations was a saint or idealist. Some may even launch attacks to take revenge against the Republic. Stuff like this would give more weight to the militarist arguments. However, a simple counter to this would be if the Jedi are tasked to lead a coalition of military forces made up of the Judicial Forces and some other planetary defense forces. Perhaps if other Separatist movements contributed to this force in an act of goodwill, they would be able to defeat these attackers as they would only make up a fraction of the separatist movements. Overall, I think that even if an event like the Clone Wars was inevitable, the Sith definitely show how evil they are by making things absolutely worse. They are the ones that got the corporations involved with the Separatists. They are the ones who empowered the more violent Separatists while secretly eliminating the idealists. They use the Separatists to push the Republic to become militaristic. This allows the Republic to become an empire. They even are the main backers of the efforts by both sides to create super weapons. Dooku personally oversees the Malevolence and the Defoliator and Palpatine forms the secret Republic group that starts the Death Star construction and also orders for the Zillo Beast to be cloned. And both guys made the clone army. If anything, it kind of proves the Sith are the worst people in the galaxy, because they can take an already existing problem and make it so worst that there is no hope of fixing things.
Very well put and detailed explanation of what might happen in such a scenario, where the Sith didn't have their hands in every pie. Do wonder if we would have seen a militaristic kind of star wars hanseatic league of the mega corporations, resource rich worlds like Jabiin and others forming as one of said factions.
@@wedgeantillies66 I do have to admit that the Republic was kind of lucky the megacorporations never had the desire to perform a coup. Granted until the years around the Naboo Invasion, there was never any need for the corporations to do such a thing as they basically ran as rampant through the Outer Rim as pirates and crime gangs did. Still, presuming something like the Naboo Invasion or the Pantoran Blockade happened to a prominent Republic world and the government started applying pressure to the corporations, the lack of a military is going to make a corporation coup quite easy.
@@tristankawatsuma8962 Indeed as they already ruled the outer rim as their own private industrial fiefdoms and kingdoms pre last hundred years of the republic and once they got their private militaries, they would have been in prime position to try a galaxy wide coup. Probably reason why didn't go that far or try prior to seperatist crisis was that sith through inter banking clan were holding the galaxy's purse strings so to speak and could keep them in check financially.
@@wedgeantillies66 First of all, that stuff on the banks, for now, is still Legends. Secondly, it seems that in Legends things got really bad in 124 BBY because that is when the Free Trade Zone was established and the Trade Federation got a seat in the Senate. The Canon equivalent to this may be 82 BBY when the High Republic Era ended. Of course, the 124 BBY thing may work as we don't know when the Free Trade Zones were established in Canon and that year would be in the latter half of the High Republic Era. It may even be the beginning of the end of the Galactic Republic's Golden Age. Speaking of which, it seems that when it comes to the major corporations siding with the CIS, they actually got started about a few decades before or after the start of the High Republic Era, so when things soured for the Republic after the Nihil Attacks, they must have profited greatly as security forces.
@@tristankawatsuma8962 Indeed and seems to me that you are spot on the money in both respects with regards to the role of major corporations in both legends and cannon verse, playing a role in helping to eventually bring down the republic by in one way or another ending up on the side of the devils and allied with the sith, hidden or in plain sight in one way or another. Effectively becoming very useful tools and puppets with which to plague and shake up the republic with, politically, economically and militarily speaking.
Thank you for the video the fall of the Empire would be interesting since internal neglect caused the destabilization of the Republic and the Empire made it worse and magnified the problem that would be awesome.
Fully agree with this take. I would go further still, and suggest that - like in our own world - the forces of business and hierarchy are the ultimate culprit in all this. Palpatine couldn’t have constructed his plan without the pre-existing presence of these factors.
This channel focuses a lot on the flaws of the Republic and the Empire politically. How about we focus on the Separatists, a prime example that not every rebellion or revolution makes life better. I like to see how the people who grew sick and tired of the corruption in the Republic went on to support what was publicly is superior democracy, but in reality an oligarchy and partial dictatorship. I mean, I wonder what veterans of the Rebellion tell their kids about the time before the Empire. Those in the Republic will note how they failed to reconcile Palpatine’s rise to power, but what do those in the Separatists say? I can imagine a lot of them saying they were the true predecessors and even the first rebels against the Empire, but what would they say if their kids note how the megacorporations had a whole council in the government and were behind most of the Separatist military. Honestly, I’m kind of hoping Cassian and Mothma or Saw have a debate about the Clone Wars. Cassian should start with the upper hand given the Empire is the successor of the Republic. Heck, he would be debating former Republic fighters or senators that are fighting the Empire. But then things get complicated when they point out the dark side of the Separatists. To be honest I’m not sure how I want the debate to end. I’m not sure if I would want Separatist characters to recognize the war crimes and corruption in their faction. I’m team Clone Trooper and by partial extension team Republic, but it’s kind of hard to think about portraying a rebellion negatively. At least the Rebellion has no choice being in an unfair war against the Empire, but the Separatists on the other hand don’t have that reason. I mean, I hate to think about how a Separatist would react if they knew the truth about Dooku. The Separatists praised Dooku for starting the Separatists. I honestly wonder what was going through Lux’s mind when he realized Dooku killed his mother. What other dark secrets could he have found out about the Separatists? We see how depressed Rex and other clone troopers and Jedi after the war when it feels everything was pointless. What was it like for the Separatists? Most of them of course would say they were right, but what do they later on think about Dooku and the Separatist military if they ever hear of their crimes?
Huh, I always thought the fall was because it was the Republic was too big, like too many planets and systems all having a voice thus causing countless different opinions that keep crashing into each other and locking each other out. And it was also too big thus causing a lack of resources to be disrupted when needed. For example let's say both Planet A and Planet B(they can be located anywhere one could be in the mid-rim the other in the outer-rim, or both in the same rim, or whatever) are in trouble and under attack from pirates or whatnot, but the only help that can be sent is the Judicial Forces and the Jedi, now both groups are very skilled and many in both would want to help people in trouble, the problem is both of them are far too small to help both so a choice has to be made on which one gets help and that's if a choice can be reached at all, going back to too many voices, every planet and system would have their own say on who they want to help and why. Some may want to help Planet A because there good friends with the people of Planet A even if Planet B needs it more, some may want to help Planet B more because it has more strategic value even if the people of Planet A need it more, some may not want to help Planet A because they have issues with the Planet and hate it thus they vote for B instead even if Planet A needs it more, some may not want to help either Planet because they're just big dicks who don't care so they might purposely try to create a tie so neither can get help, some may not want to help either for more legitimate reasons like they believe diverting too many resources to help one of the Planets will leave other areas of the galaxy vulnerable. Thus with all these different opinions on the matter, it leads to many different debates and votes which can lead to either the Planet that doesn't need the help more getting it instead of the Planet that does, or neither getting help because no one can decide on what to do because of all these different opinions and before you know it the Senate devolves into a giant argument that makes all the Senators look like arguing children. Heck, if I was a Senator in Star Wars depending on where my Planet was and stuff I'd probably have many different opinions on who we should help and why. For example, if I was from Duro after my planet was invaded by Grevious during Operation Durges Lance, I'd be a little more wary of diverting resources to help other planets because I'd be little paranoid that doing so would put other planets and areas at risk, and I would have good reasons to think this because it was diverting resources away from Duro's fleet that allowed Grevious to have a much easier time taking down the fleet and taking over my planet so I may not want to help either planet because I'm worried will get another Battle of Duro. Or maybe I'm from a Planet that's good friends with the Wookies or I am just a good friend of the Wookies, so thus hearing that Umbara joining the CIS now puts Kashyyyk and Wookies at risk of being invaded by the Separatists or being forced to join them because they are now surrounded on all sides, I would be all for invading Umbara and helping the Wookies. That was the ultimate flaw of the Republic I think, it was too big to properly manage.
Easy: Palpatine. He created the Empire to be his ideal place to rule, which includes promoting being self-serving and selfish, always seeking for greater power at all cost and being cruel while doing so for entertainment. And because he wanted the Empire to be ruled by him and him only, he structured it in such a way that it can only work when he's in power. So when he died, the Empire crumbled into pieces as there was no contingency plan for the event he died such as a successor to take his place or institutions to keep it stable and functional in his absence, all the while the admirals who followed the footsteps of being self serving assholes fought against one another to fill in the power vacuum
So the republic fell because it expanded too quickly and wasn't forced to deal with this overreach (causing a 1,000 years of rot and resentment to build) until the machinations of the sith moved the pieces into place, only a little faster than they would have normally. This sounds a lot like the issues of the NCR in New Vegas. The better play would have been slow assimilation, ensuring that every new region is stable, content and represented. But you can't run a campaign on, "let's get more water and power in 50 years, vote for me". Ironically, if you pick the NCR ending, being forced to face Cesar's Legion was a blessing in disguise. It made all these regions put their differences aside and expedite relations with the NCR. When faced between slavers and anything besides genocide, you pick the anything. Star trek's federation funnily enough never has expansion issues. I think that is because of possibly better and longer term policies for accepting new territory and the presence of enemies to check overreaching expansion. When the federation makes colonies, not member states, they are shown to abandon them if they can't defend them. We see this with the Maquis and colonies through the wormhole. In all of the cinematic representations of star wars, there aren't true external powers. The story is more about the plight of the force, with a galaxy spanning war as mere window dressing. The basic plot of star wars could work with the technology of dark age Europe. I do find the concept of not having traditional external powers to be an interesting situation. So you could also say that the republic fell because of the fall of the traditional sith empires. Without a centralizing badguy who everyone can rally against, and a force that would take over unwise territorial claims (sectors too far away to defend and supply) people focused on the inequality and class conflicts inherent to a capitalistic liberal democracy. Instead of improving the political and material conditions of the outer rim, they left the region to the worst form of unrestrained lazie-faire capitalism with essentially legalized slavery and overt slavery. Honestly, it would have been better to see the outer rim sectors as independent space. To then partition, or ask if they wished to join the republic when both that sector and republic were ready and willing to incorporate them properly.
I say the same thing would happen to the Separatist Alliance if they won the war, though it would have to happen after Dooku's death. Between the corporations, the autocracies, the democracies, the pirates and mercenaries hired by Dooku, the idealists, and so on, Dooku was the only unifying factor besides the Republic that kept this diverse group together. Afterward, civil war seems inevitable.
@@tristankawatsuma8962 and this is where fiction can have real world utility. How do you balance all these factors. I don't know if I will live to see it, but I think mankind will unite under one banner. I think that this government will be a democracy that has regional power blocks. The question that this entity would face is that of the republic, how do you unite the most diverse group of people when you have no extensional power to oppose? Do you think we will see a united earth? How do you think it will look like? What do you think could bring it down? How important is bridging the material inequality gap to either creating such an institution or keeping it together? If you don't think mankind will unite, why?
They had a new order, this new order specifically was focused more on military tactics and aversion other than socioeconomic matters. I remember seeing a video that said the Jedi were pretty much just sold short and used by the Republic, since when it came to dealing with people affairs, they didn't know what the heck they were doing. The Jedi didn't MEAN to take it this way, but they are kind of still the primary factor it eventually fell to rots.
Not for direct allegories, but I see similar parallels.of the American government treating its heartland as 'flyover states' and became obsessed with the decadence.of its giant cities, ignoring the rot, cirruption, suffering, and decay from within. Every Empire will.have its fall, very sobering to remember that truth. This too, shall pass.
When a empire doesn’t provide for its own citizens, that is when it falls. The republic was a empire at the end and turned into “the empire” when it fell. Recall the arc where padme discusses how the republic has been neglecting its own citizens. When an empire falls it can move leftword, toward socialism or reform and egalitarianism, or it can move right word toward fascism. In a society without massive class consciousness it requires a large amount of organization to make the empire move the egalitarian route. Otherwise it will usually move towards fascism. This is a parallel I see in the American empire, which is what George Lucas builds Star Wars around metaphorically, he is write about corporatism also causing the republics collapse but he misses that corporatism is merely a higher stage of capitalism which is workplace fascism and mass exploitation and has the logical end of corruption and corporatism….ie, circle around to the empire failing to provide for its own citizens. And collapse!!
As any 4X player can attribute attempt playing wide is difficult and the Republic is a prime example being so large in of itself would've caused problems. While I'm no political expert I would've broken up the republic into smaller independent states similar to what the Roman Empire did(twice) and tasked the Jedi with keeping the peace between the new states.
I disagree about the rebellion i believe that was more to do with the the restoration of the republic and removing the emperor, but they found allies in the outer rim because of the fact you mentioned.
I like this. It is good to see WHY the Republic fell. Would be good if you also looked at how bad the Empire was, since a lot of fans tend to gloss over that.
I feel like the Empire's brutality is so normalized, that most fans tend to gloss over it, as you say, in favor of dropping rubbish on The Republic. Which in all fairness deserves a lot of critiques (and mockery for it's open corruption), but the problem kinda comes when folk connect the failings of the Republic with the fact it was supposed to be a democracy. (And at the risk of starting a whole thing here: thus democracy in general being pinpointed as "the issue", kinda mirroring what's going on in our world right now with the decline of democracy and the rise of authoritarian leaders with quite a lot of folk being ready to sign up and support them and their empty promises if it means (in their minds) things are better for them. Ironically, we are kinda in a similar situation in our world to The Republic in many ways, and so while acknowledging an authoritarian dictatorship isn't a pleasant or good thing, and in fact is incredibly brutal, which many can acknowledge, I suppose there is more fun for many to be had on dunking on democracy while secretly (or openly) being ready to bail and jump ship to the authoritarian leader bus. Only problem is that fixing issues and making the world a better place for everyone won't happen if you get a more or less wrinkle faced despot in a cloak/suit wielding unlimited power, rather than trying to fix and evolve democracy past this current pit it's slid into for a whole heck of a lot of reasons, and taking notes to learn from those lessons to boot too, so it doesn't happen again. The whole erosion of democracy thing shouldn't be happening ever again, once this current mess is eventually mopped up and dealt with. Noting here at the end before the very opinionated and quick to arrive US politics gang gets their jimmies rustled and smells blood, I am not talking about the US alone here, as it would be wise to remember the US is just one of many struggling democracies around the world right now, and so thus I would ask said folk to think a bit bigger than only focusing on a single nation in a literal ocean of nations if they wish to drop their two Republic credits worth of opinion on this end point.)
@@videocrowsnest5251 Yes. I find it sad, that the Empire is just excused, and somewhat disturbed that people are doing similar things with real conflicts. Democracy dies when people let it.
I did the numbers in calculations with the senate seats & members... the republic had about 50 million inhabitable planets, with many more as mining colonies which were not always inhabitable... about 5 million systems or so. While the empire had 80 to 100 million worlds. With 10 worlds per system with each senator having 50 systems being represented for each official in the senate... that means that the galactic senate should be about 100,000 representors at least... with many more members eventfully joining in later years if still standing as a republic with extra seats on standby... it should be 250,000 seats just in case. Long story short; the galactic senate is way too small to represent everyone in the republic... because we all know that there are only 2000 to 10,000 seats in the senate building, so they need to expand it in order to support everyone in the republic. Too many worlds being represented by so few people in office causes complications + corruption, incompetence and unfair voices that don't support their basic needs. The Republic just got way too big to be governable, just like the roman empire... so it had to be split in two to become more manageable, and way too expensive as well due to overpopulation & over development in projects to support all societies going on all the time... it's just too much, that's why there were heavy taxes and not just being about corruption. Especially when parts of the whole galaxy is running out of resources... sooner or later, they're going to have to advance their technology in multiple fields to leave their home galaxy and search for a new untapped one to settle in to survive. Or just mine the unsettled parts of the outer rim + wild space and unknown regions... which we all know are resource rich. I believe that the republic needed to be fairly split into two pieces to allow it to function more efficiently... the inner & outer republic = inner representing the core, inner & mid rim worlds... and the outer representing the outer rim + some mid rim worlds, wild space and unknown regions... still trade with one another as allies like a federation with balanced & sorted economies, but encourage vast amounts of core, inner populations to move to the outskirts to balance out its demands in resource issues. Then it'll sort itself out with fixing the problems in lack of resources + money and inequalities, for a time... but it might actually work and bring about some more stability once again for the first time in centuries = and last a few more if lucky.
All things have to die out, even if they're long living. And really, if there's one thing the likes of Charles Dickens knows all too well, it's that poverty can lead to these muckcracks. Edit: Oh, yes, do analyze it, and also how it actually survived in some capacity as the Imperial Remnant and eventually the Fel Empire.
this is ture cycle of war in the Star Wars universe is the cycle of bad governance. That why first order rose because of bad governance. How ever the lack of center military did help palpatine rise the emperor because the republic was too weak to hold things together. Also the citizens lost faith in the Jedi to keep them safe.
@@CloneScavengerVulpin8389 Thats fair enough but compared to 20,000 years of Hutt space and a military comparable to even the Republic's GATR. I think they made an ever-lasting impression.
Not all who criticize the Republic as being inherently flawed support the Empire. As an anarchist I believe that political freedom without economic equality is a pretense or a fraud. So the space capitalism in a bourgeois republic is inherently flawed.
The conflict was inspired by the US Civil War. Despite the false argument that the Union aka the Republic fought to "free the slaves" the real truth is that the entire conflict was inspired by the federal govt's regional centrism and neglectful treatment of it's southern territories. As with Star Wars, the Central planets or Northern States both had trade monopolies and forcibly ensured that they were the heart of commerce and industrialization. They used tariffs and trade laws to keep it that way and actively lobbied to keep the South/Rim from gaining as much power. They actively hindered them. This caused a massive political rift where Southern and some northern states like Maryland and Illinois both began to see the New England domination of federal govt as something that needed to come to an end. The spark of rebellion was exasperated by the conflict between slavers and abolitionists which was becoming increasing violent and stands in as the Sith/Jedi conflict. You'll notice that even some of the characters have traits in common with US civil war generals. Robert E Lee and Dooku are extremely similar in appearance, speech, etc.
@@ZontarDow It is so obvious yet I constantly see people who completely miss that point. Usually they are poorly educated and confused because they believe that the war was a benevolent act by the Union to free the poor slaves and have zero knowledge of the deeper political and economic realities of the conflict. Freeing the slaves was the justification, not the cause. Basically the same thing as what the Republic did at Geonosis (which technically was legal since Padme, Obi-Wan, and Anakin were illegally there and killed a bunch of geonosian civilians, I mean they were spies and committed war crimes.)
Despite hearing about the democracy and the Ruusan Reformation in the new light, I'm still not a fan of democracy because it welcomes debates. And while a bunch of politicians are arguing what to do, people are dying outside. And yes, I know that some of the Russian Tsars did not make the best decisions but that is because they let their own arrogance blinded them and because of that, their defeats such as during the early battles against Napoleon and the ones during Crimean War were inevitable. But the point is that it is very fast and very decisive. And the best part is that the Tsar's words are absolute and no military generals and government officials can do anything about it unless the Tsar changed the mind on his own. By the way, I think it is now the time to introduce the concept of nation-state to Star Wars. For example, if the Core Worlds wanted to have the Republic, let them become the Republic of the Core Worlds. As for the worlds in the Outer Rim, they decided to allied with one another to form the new government known as the Outer Rim Alliance for their own protection from the other states and piracy.
That very well could happen in Canon now that the First Order is being torn up by rebellions and the New Republic is fractured thanks to surviving senators focusing on the remaining military to protect their homes instead of defending the galaxy. Any sense of unity in the galaxy is likely gone. Sure, they came together against the Final Order, but how long until these new factions begin to fight over power? Though to be honest I would have no clue who would come out on top. The Outer Rim has historically been quite poor and the Core Rim has been engulfed by wars, revolutions, and a loss of interest by the galaxy in recent decades that it's no longer a true force of power. One thing's for sure, I have my doubts if anyone would agree to some galactic alliance even in the face of new threats. If anything, a threat has to be shown to be so massive that it would be near-apocalyptic to mobilize the galaxy. The galaxy only mobilized after Lando's call for help. If anything, an invading force would simply have to wait until the galaxy wastes resources fighting itself to invade.
@@tristankawatsuma8962 The reason why I think some planets will still ally with one another while also advocating for the nation-state to be applied in the galaxy is because not only that it has been proven that the galaxy is too large for the both the Republic and the Empire to govern but also to protect themselves from other threats such as pirates and the other states that wanted to expand their territories as well. I can see that the Hutts will be among those who emerged as one of the galaxy's major powers now that the First Order is gone along with other groups such as the Pykes, the Black Sun, the Banking Clan, the Commerce Guild and the Corporate Alliance. So when the concept of nation-state become a thing, I can see the polities like the Republic of the Core Worlds and the Outer Rim Alliance coexisted with the fully independent Hutt Space and the Corporate Sector.
@@Stewie_Guy99 no the outer rim was always chaotic even in the republic days even the empire couldn’t tame the outer rim completely which says a lot about them
I would say “worse” is absolutely the way to describe it. Sure, you can say the Empire just got rid of the middle man corporations or made them completely subservient to the government. However I would say the Republic’s worst trait was ignorance or neglect. What development the Empire brought to the Outer Rim only bled the planets faster than the corporations probably did. They also ignored a number of criminals and pirates, focusing mostly on rebels and insurgents. The Republic at least has the excuse of laziness and underfunding the Judicial Forces. Not justifiable, but compared to the Empire which had more manpower than even the Clone Wars Republic and more firepower than the previous state as well as a giant presence in the Outer Rim, they have an even worse excuse. Honestly I wonder if the Empire inspired more anger in the Outer Rim than the Republic. Until the Clone Wars the worst the Republic did was ignore the Outer Rim. Then came the Clone Wars where at least the fighting was more focused between the armies. Whole planets and systems were actually ignored by both sides. Then came the Empire where everybody, Republic, Separatist, and neutrals were brutalized. There honestly is no easy solution to this situation for the Outer Rim, but what did happen clearly wasn’t that answer. The Separatists basically are no different from the Republic and the Empire was far worse than both states. Honestly an alternative government is one of two solutions I think would work, but inevitably they would need some backing militarily and economically until they could stand on their own. The corporations and Sith were just the wrong backers. Perhaps the Republic could have been such a backer, but the Jedi would have to be needed to ensure the Republic funding is supportive and not controlling. Obi-Wan probably would be the best Jedi to act as a watchdog/mediator as he understands both the Outer and Core Rim quite well.
@@heltaku9397, they are all alike. All were oppressed by a central authority All sought to leave that central authority. All faced that central authority retaliating with even greater cruelty than before. All still safe that entity of evil.
The Republic is not easily fixed; every solution addressing one issue can cause other issues when taken too far. Examples: Give regional governments more authority and sovereignity. That way the core worlds cannot exploit the rim. However, now some worlds exploit there own people, including slavery. After all, many seperatist worlds did incorperate that. Set up laws in a new constitution guarenteeing equal benefits and taxes to all member worlds. Now every world needs to pay the same taxes, even when planets are too small and poor to afford them Split off some responsibilities of the republic to the sector levels. Now sectors can war against each other or have the same problems as the Republic. I am not anti republic. I just recognize the difficulty of fixing its problems. Having a central government able to interfere in conflicts and reign in regional excesses is a good thing in my opinion, even at the loss of sovereignty. The European Union comes to mind. It also helps member states work together against outside threats, both military and economic.
![Who were REALLY the "Good Guys" of the Clone Wars [Best Faction]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Kd5nBneqtFc/mqdefault.jpg)
![Who were REALLY the "Good Guys" of the Clone Wars [Best Faction]](/img/tr.png)
The Republic: Neglects the outer rim
Also the Republic: Why is the outer rim always joining a faction against us?
So true
Also the Republic: "Why are they suddenly neglecting our appeasement supplies... why are they suddenly bringing back mutilated corpses of our spokespeople... WHY ARE THEY *SUDDENLY* ATTACKING US?!?"
Definitely a mystery that will never have an answer.
Republic: Could it be that that I'm exploiting them?
Republic: Nahhhh, they're just a bunch of stupid criminals
@@GeneralSturnn Comment's gone.
Palpatine: I love democracy, I love the Republic
Also Palpatine: let's get outer rim planets to secede so that the Republic can die
Almost like palpatine hated democracy and the republic
Padme Amidala: "I can't believe slavery still exists. The Republic's anti-slavery laws would have-"
Shmi Skywalker: "The Republic doesn't exist out here. We must survive on our own."
While I hate the dialogue of the prequels, I think that interaction was a great display of how a privileged person who’s heart is in the right place can still miss the horrors of the world around them.
It is also a good set up for Padme’s quest for justice throughout most of her career, so yeah, great writing and great acting.
Wasn’t tatoine part of hutt space not the republic
Actually it was outside of it, but the sector it was in had little Republic presence, like how Geonosis became the first center of the Separatists before the Clone Wars. While it wasn’t in Hutt Space, Tatoonie may as well have been. It certainly wasn’t in Republic space at least. It’s not like the Republic could establish a presence. Come to Tatoonie and they will get the Hutt Clan all over them. Judicial Forces and the Jedi likely would get overrun by the full might of Hutt Space.
It’s the naivety of the statement that gets you.
The government made laws against this, how could it possibly still be happening?
@@theghostofsabertache9049 Even worse when the government doesn't obey its own laws
The 40k jumpscare at 1:02 threw me for a second
Everyone always seems to just completely overlook the Outer Rim. Every time.
With so many interesting ideas I'm surprised Disney didn't do "what if" star wars and got good writers to work on these possible divergent timelines.
Well, it's DISNEY. What do you expect?
@@user-nm1lx8qb3u well idk maybe they haven't thought of it or think it would work for star wars.
@@Josh_Hammond they don't think at all, they only care about making movies/shows/games for people who have little to no interest whatsoever in the franchise or its paraphernalia, except for buzzwords and the like
@@vexile1239 meh I like the MCU and Star wars shows like the mandalorian is cool but that's my opinion.
I don’t like defending Disney but they are pretty hands of with lucasarts only proving funding to them after they bought them a lot of their promblems are caused by internal problems that exist since the original trilogy just look at the rough cut of a new hope for Proof
The Republic was doomed even without the Sith interfering. Actually it would have fallen even worse without the Sith becoming the reason the Jedi decided to help.
But probably would have taken longer to fall without the sith.
Even after a THOUSAND YEARS of Sith scheming, it took an additional 13 years to do it. Without the Sith I feel the Republic would stand for many more centuries.
But it still lasted 25 000 years. Which is... honestly... unimaginable. I think we have a hard time grasping how absolutely gigantic that number is. Just to put things in perspective:
On Earth, the last ice age ended 11 700 years ago...
@@cubescihist6737 But it wasn't one continuos government or civilization at all. For example, there's a huge dark age that lasts an entire millenia beetwen 2000 and 1000 BBY when, as far as I interpreted, it seems the Republic was either de-facto or de-jure non existant.
So really I'd say the republic with its current order (the one culminating with thr Clone Wars) has existed for a thousand years, which is still an impressive amount of time nonetheless.
@@fede98k54 Thanks for the info!
And yes indeed, a thousand years is still someting! :)
I'm still convinced this same problem exists in the Gundam series and that most people (fans especially) are too blind too see it.
The Zeon, you mean?
Well, basically. The Federation only cared about maintaining their cushy status quo located on Earth and only bothered with Space Colonies for resources, creating discontent for the Spacenoids as they didn't have a voice in matters related to them. Only difference is that what sparked the OYW and doomed the UC timeline to a big cycle of violence was the Zabi family taking advantage of the discontent to try getting tons of power for themselves
I would liken the relationship between the Core Worlds and the Outer Rim to that between urban and rural communities. Big cities use their massive populations to outvote and exploit their rural neighbors, just as the Core Worlds did to the Outer Rim territories.
Um, I’m pretty sure a common problem in democracies is how voting systems actually favor the more rural regions. When every region gets one vote each, that means a rural region a with far fewer people than an urban region with far more people has an equal amount of voting power. That wasn’t what happened in the Republic. It is more like how some nations have more development, more tech, and are richer while they have corporations obtain resources from the lesser developed regions without giving such regions anything in return. In Canon the High Republic Era, despite being an era of expansion, might have been an exception to this if it wasn’t for the Nihil attacks. Whatever wonder people in the Core and Inner Rim had for the Outer Rim was probably tainted with the image of Nihil to the point they just assumed the Outer Rim was controlled by criminals and pirates with no hope of becoming as advanced and high tech as them. They ignored the Outer Rim and left the corporations to do the dirty work and eventually the Outer Rim actually became what they thought it was thanks their neglect. Pirates and criminals thrives in the Outer Rim along with slave empires and other hostile non-democratic factions. They picked on the weak, but the Republic did nothing to stop this. They gave the megacorporations the power to expand security forces into militaries as large or larger than the Core World defense forces. Whenever the Republic itself did intervene with the Judicial Forces, they usually just stopped the conflict without addressing the issues that started the war in the first place. Things worked out differently with the Jedi who actually addressed the issues, but I doubt they were deployed to the Outer Rim often. Hence why megacorporations, empires, and the Sith keep finding followers and supporters in the Outer Rim. Honestly the Republic isn’t really evil. Though I wonder if calling it lazy or ignorant is an understatement. I would say perhaps in the eyes of the Republic’s citizens, the Republic only extended as far as the Mid Rim. This mindset lasted long enough for it to become a reality. Unfortunately for the Outer Rim the alternate options are never pure. The Separatists were controlled by the Sith and the Megacorporations who took advantage of their situation. The Empire did take interest and developed them only to exploit them in a new and possibly worst way. And the New Republic repeated the mistakes of the first Republic, even though they helped Rebel Cells liberate the Outer Rim.
For an answer to this dilemma, I provide two. The first was instead of seceding they instead reform. Naboo opened eyes to the Core Rim that the corporations were out of control. However these reform efforts would take time. The second is to form their own government like the Separatists, just without the corporations. However due to the small economy and low development as well as underfunded defense forces, they are going to have to depend on the Republic for economic and military backing until they can stand on their feet, so the Jedi would have their hands full keeping such a relation from being exploited by the Republic. There are no easy answers to something that is the fault of multiple parties. Not just the Republic and the Jedi who mostly withdrew from the Outer Rim after the High Republic Era, but also the corporations, criminals, pirates, and small empires which took full advantage of this neglect.
Or the imperial core and perofery
@@joshpeck9266 Um, could you explain perofery? I don't get it. And while much of the Core were some of the biggest supporters of the Empire, there was a minority such as Alderaan and Chandrila who were pretty moral. Though to be honest, for all we know they were the only Core World exceptions instead of being the most famous ones.
@@tristankawatsuma8962 the reason most systems bias rural areas is because of the fact the cities would tyrannize the rural areas otherwise, and that isn't a hypothetical it's simple pattern recognition.
It's more like the exploitation of the global south through Capitalism in our world today and for the past three centuries.
The Outer Rim really was an impossible place to govern, even with hyper lanes and instant communication it was simply to large and wild to control back in the Core Worlds. The Galactic Republic’s had a thousand years of peace and with it came a lax approach to governing, and while on paper it is fine form of government it made it really easy for corrupt corporations and individuals to abuse the resources and people of the Outer Rim. In truth the Galactic Republic need another capital world near the Mid Rim to govern the Outer Rim more effectively, if they wanted more control and influence there, but also a strong military presence to secure the region from pirates and troublesome elements from the Republic itself.
thats why the CIS picked raxus as its capital, in fact there should probably be a regional capitals and regional senates with delegated things to vote on.
The GR should've done what the late Roman Empire did: split, with multiple capitals and divided administrative duties. Central government would've certainly failed decades, possibly centuries sooner than it did. All your eggs in one basket makes a fucking mess if you get hit by a truck, I guess.
Love the WH40K shot at 1:00
I love that you flashed some Warhammer 40k art during the phrase "unfathomably long period of time"
It’s simple, Geetsly’s posts a video and I watch it.
1:05 that's The Astra Militarum from 40k
1:00 wait, isn't that a 40k image? Geetsly did you really think we wouldn't notice. Come on, Commissars are too recognizable for that.
The Senate caused the Republic’s downfall.
It’s true, I was the senate
@@generalgrievous6100 I was expecting a mention of Palpatine, and not the Senate himself.
No, you're not wrong. Especially if you watch The Clone Wars
The senate gave too much power to The Senate and it brought about the fall of the Republic.
@@marcusblackwell2372 so Sheev didn't cause the republic downfall?
You can correct me if I'm wrong, but what I find most sad is that, both in Legends and in Canon, it was never shown if the New Republic made any attempt to improve on the errors of the previous one.
I can only speak for Canon, but they did to a partial extent. They mostly brought back the things seen in the pre-Clone Wars government because they didn't trust giving the executive and the military any power after the Empire. This of course led to the Senate grounding to a halt like before the Clone Wars, but they did address one concern the Separatists had, with how all the power seemed to be concentrated in the center of the galaxy, like the capital. So they made their capital mobile, basically, the New Republic would vote on where the capital would be located. While the first capital was Chandrila and the last capital was Hosnian Prime, both of which are in the Core Rim, it's likely the capital ended up in several different regions in between. As for Legends, it took the creation of the Galactic Alliance, the New Republic's successor, to try and create a fair balance between the executive and the legislative, basically trying to keep the sectors from having more power than the central government, though I don't think things worked out perfectly. Still in Canon, they addressed some concerns but not everything leading to the Populists standing for planetary and sector power while the Centrists stood for central government power.
The Republic turned into the Imperium of Man for a moment.
Speaking of which. Geetsly, I think you covered this topic a few times already. Why not cover the issues with the Warhammer 40k Imperium of Man? Plenty of Lore there.
Ironically the imperium of man issues is also its strengths. I’ll give you an example:
A local industrial world is having a better standard of living compared to other industrial world due to the beaucratic mess causing the tithe grade to be placed as low accidentally . Allowing its citizens to work with more free time and the local governor (if he’s not a corrupt jackass) being able to use said resources to enact policies increase standards of living and make a competent PDF force.
7:31 The Phalanx from WH40K.
I get why people say the Clone Wars were inevitable given the social and economic conditions that surrounded the galaxy, but I doubt that it would be even close to as bad as what ended up happening.
For starters, there likely would be multiple Separatist movements. The divisions between them would be regional and political. Democracies and autocracies themselves had their issues with the Republic, but it was thanks to Dooku that they worked together. These governments might form alliances together out of necessity, but I doubt they would make any lasting connections thanks to these differences. The mega corporations probably would try to sell battle droids and provide support to these movements. Pragmatism will encourage some to make such deals, but others may abide by the wills of their populace who will recall that most of the Republic's corruption was enacted upon them directly by these corporations.
Then comes the issue of the Republic's response. I feel as Star Wars fans we forget that the Senate didn't just outright create an army in response to the Separatist Crisis that started in 24 BBY. They debated about making an army and navy, as seen in the debates for the Military Creation Act. For a government that had many militarists, it took two whole years for the Senate to reach the final vote. Palpatine took advantage of this time to have Dooku encourage violence among his Separatist supporters. He also intentionally refused to make negotiations with Palpatine throughout the crisis. The separatist movements in this non-Sith timeline likely won't take such violent actions, at least the majority would. Plenty would be diplomatic. We even see during the Clone Wars twice times when the Republic and Separatist Senates were on the same page. First, the Separatists offered to negotiate peace and the Republic was just about to vote on it when droids launched an attack on Coruscant's power grid. Later in the last year of the war, the Republic and Separatists were able to agree on having Rush Clovis become head of the Intergalactic Banking Clan. Once again, the Sith intervene via the Separatist forces. It took the Sith to keep pushing the war going on and on via their control of the two factions. Without that control, things may have gone more peacefully.
Now let's say the Republic did create a military in response to the Separatists. Not everybody in the Separatists that wasn't with the corporations was a saint or idealist. Some may even launch attacks to take revenge against the Republic. Stuff like this would give more weight to the militarist arguments. However, a simple counter to this would be if the Jedi are tasked to lead a coalition of military forces made up of the Judicial Forces and some other planetary defense forces. Perhaps if other Separatist movements contributed to this force in an act of goodwill, they would be able to defeat these attackers as they would only make up a fraction of the separatist movements.
Overall, I think that even if an event like the Clone Wars was inevitable, the Sith definitely show how evil they are by making things absolutely worse. They are the ones that got the corporations involved with the Separatists. They are the ones who empowered the more violent Separatists while secretly eliminating the idealists. They use the Separatists to push the Republic to become militaristic. This allows the Republic to become an empire. They even are the main backers of the efforts by both sides to create super weapons. Dooku personally oversees the Malevolence and the Defoliator and Palpatine forms the secret Republic group that starts the Death Star construction and also orders for the Zillo Beast to be cloned. And both guys made the clone army. If anything, it kind of proves the Sith are the worst people in the galaxy, because they can take an already existing problem and make it so worst that there is no hope of fixing things.
Very well put and detailed explanation of what might happen in such a scenario, where the Sith didn't have their hands in every pie. Do wonder if we would have seen a militaristic kind of star wars hanseatic league of the mega corporations, resource rich worlds like Jabiin and others forming as one of said factions.
@@wedgeantillies66 I do have to admit that the Republic was kind of lucky the megacorporations never had the desire to perform a coup. Granted until the years around the Naboo Invasion, there was never any need for the corporations to do such a thing as they basically ran as rampant through the Outer Rim as pirates and crime gangs did. Still, presuming something like the Naboo Invasion or the Pantoran Blockade happened to a prominent Republic world and the government started applying pressure to the corporations, the lack of a military is going to make a corporation coup quite easy.
@@tristankawatsuma8962 Indeed as they already ruled the outer rim as their own private industrial fiefdoms and kingdoms pre last hundred years of the republic and once they got their private militaries, they would have been in prime position to try a galaxy wide coup. Probably reason why didn't go that far or try prior to seperatist crisis was that sith through inter banking clan were holding the galaxy's purse strings so to speak and could keep them in check financially.
@@wedgeantillies66 First of all, that stuff on the banks, for now, is still Legends. Secondly, it seems that in Legends things got really bad in 124 BBY because that is when the Free Trade Zone was established and the Trade Federation got a seat in the Senate. The Canon equivalent to this may be 82 BBY when the High Republic Era ended. Of course, the 124 BBY thing may work as we don't know when the Free Trade Zones were established in Canon and that year would be in the latter half of the High Republic Era. It may even be the beginning of the end of the Galactic Republic's Golden Age. Speaking of which, it seems that when it comes to the major corporations siding with the CIS, they actually got started about a few decades before or after the start of the High Republic Era, so when things soured for the Republic after the Nihil Attacks, they must have profited greatly as security forces.
@@tristankawatsuma8962 Indeed and seems to me that you are spot on the money in both respects with regards to the role of major corporations in both legends and cannon verse, playing a role in helping to eventually bring down the republic by in one way or another ending up on the side of the devils and allied with the sith, hidden or in plain sight in one way or another. Effectively becoming very useful tools and puppets with which to plague and shake up the republic with, politically, economically and militarily speaking.
Thank you for the video the fall of the Empire would be interesting since internal neglect caused the destabilization of the Republic and the Empire made it worse and magnified the problem that would be awesome.
Yes, that's something Palpatine loves reminding us of.
I hope you do a video on the whole Duel Chancellors thing the early High Republic had going on once Phase 2 comes out.
I'd love a video on the fall of the empire next as I'm sure it was a lot more than just Vader's kids blowing up Death Stars that caused it.
Fully agree with this take. I would go further still, and suggest that - like in our own world - the forces of business and hierarchy are the ultimate culprit in all this. Palpatine couldn’t have constructed his plan without the pre-existing presence of these factors.
Didn’t really much improve with the empire’s ascension either.
It got even worse in some cases
This channel focuses a lot on the flaws of the Republic and the Empire politically. How about we focus on the Separatists, a prime example that not every rebellion or revolution makes life better. I like to see how the people who grew sick and tired of the corruption in the Republic went on to support what was publicly is superior democracy, but in reality an oligarchy and partial dictatorship. I mean, I wonder what veterans of the Rebellion tell their kids about the time before the Empire. Those in the Republic will note how they failed to reconcile Palpatine’s rise to power, but what do those in the Separatists say? I can imagine a lot of them saying they were the true predecessors and even the first rebels against the Empire, but what would they say if their kids note how the megacorporations had a whole council in the government and were behind most of the Separatist military. Honestly, I’m kind of hoping Cassian and Mothma or Saw have a debate about the Clone Wars. Cassian should start with the upper hand given the Empire is the successor of the Republic. Heck, he would be debating former Republic fighters or senators that are fighting the Empire. But then things get complicated when they point out the dark side of the Separatists. To be honest I’m not sure how I want the debate to end. I’m not sure if I would want Separatist characters to recognize the war crimes and corruption in their faction. I’m team Clone Trooper and by partial extension team Republic, but it’s kind of hard to think about portraying a rebellion negatively. At least the Rebellion has no choice being in an unfair war against the Empire, but the Separatists on the other hand don’t have that reason. I mean, I hate to think about how a Separatist would react if they knew the truth about Dooku. The Separatists praised Dooku for starting the Separatists. I honestly wonder what was going through Lux’s mind when he realized Dooku killed his mother. What other dark secrets could he have found out about the Separatists? We see how depressed Rex and other clone troopers and Jedi after the war when it feels everything was pointless. What was it like for the Separatists? Most of them of course would say they were right, but what do they later on think about Dooku and the Separatist military if they ever hear of their crimes?
After this I’d love to see the fall of the empire as long as you do it’s history with it
this is why i love star wars
1:02 bruh that's the Imperial Guard
Huh, I always thought the fall was because it was the Republic was too big, like too many planets and systems all having a voice thus causing countless different opinions that keep crashing into each other and locking each other out. And it was also too big thus causing a lack of resources to be disrupted when needed. For example let's say both Planet A and Planet B(they can be located anywhere one could be in the mid-rim the other in the outer-rim, or both in the same rim, or whatever) are in trouble and under attack from pirates or whatnot, but the only help that can be sent is the Judicial Forces and the Jedi, now both groups are very skilled and many in both would want to help people in trouble, the problem is both of them are far too small to help both so a choice has to be made on which one gets help and that's if a choice can be reached at all, going back to too many voices, every planet and system would have their own say on who they want to help and why. Some may want to help Planet A because there good friends with the people of Planet A even if Planet B needs it more, some may want to help Planet B more because it has more strategic value even if the people of Planet A need it more, some may not want to help Planet A because they have issues with the Planet and hate it thus they vote for B instead even if Planet A needs it more, some may not want to help either Planet because they're just big dicks who don't care so they might purposely try to create a tie so neither can get help, some may not want to help either for more legitimate reasons like they believe diverting too many resources to help one of the Planets will leave other areas of the galaxy vulnerable. Thus with all these different opinions on the matter, it leads to many different debates and votes which can lead to either the Planet that doesn't need the help more getting it instead of the Planet that does, or neither getting help because no one can decide on what to do because of all these different opinions and before you know it the Senate devolves into a giant argument that makes all the Senators look like arguing children.
Heck, if I was a Senator in Star Wars depending on where my Planet was and stuff I'd probably have many different opinions on who we should help and why. For example, if I was from Duro after my planet was invaded by Grevious during Operation Durges Lance, I'd be a little more wary of diverting resources to help other planets because I'd be little paranoid that doing so would put other planets and areas at risk, and I would have good reasons to think this because it was diverting resources away from Duro's fleet that allowed Grevious to have a much easier time taking down the fleet and taking over my planet so I may not want to help either planet because I'm worried will get another Battle of Duro. Or maybe I'm from a Planet that's good friends with the Wookies or I am just a good friend of the Wookies, so thus hearing that Umbara joining the CIS now puts Kashyyyk and Wookies at risk of being invaded by the Separatists or being forced to join them because they are now surrounded on all sides, I would be all for invading Umbara and helping the Wookies.
That was the ultimate flaw of the Republic I think, it was too big to properly manage.
I would love a video of how the empire fell
Easy: Palpatine. He created the Empire to be his ideal place to rule, which includes promoting being self-serving and selfish, always seeking for greater power at all cost and being cruel while doing so for entertainment. And because he wanted the Empire to be ruled by him and him only, he structured it in such a way that it can only work when he's in power. So when he died, the Empire crumbled into pieces as there was no contingency plan for the event he died such as a successor to take his place or institutions to keep it stable and functional in his absence, all the while the admirals who followed the footsteps of being self serving assholes fought against one another to fill in the power vacuum
That would be pretty cool to get a dive on the politics of the empire that's more cerebral than *wrinkly man bad*
There's a reason why Episode 3 opens with "Heroes on both sides"
Yes, I would like to hear your breakdown of the demise of the Republic and the demise of the empire and how they were similar!
The Republic’s Senate brought about the downfall
I would love to see an episode about the factors on how the empire was doomed from the start
How many times has the republic and the Jedi nearly colpased?
Answer: Yes.
xD
Have you thought about covering the First Order's rise to power in the near future?
So the republic fell because it expanded too quickly and wasn't forced to deal with this overreach (causing a 1,000 years of rot and resentment to build) until the machinations of the sith moved the pieces into place, only a little faster than they would have normally.
This sounds a lot like the issues of the NCR in New Vegas. The better play would have been slow assimilation, ensuring that every new region is stable, content and represented. But you can't run a campaign on, "let's get more water and power in 50 years, vote for me". Ironically, if you pick the NCR ending, being forced to face Cesar's Legion was a blessing in disguise. It made all these regions put their differences aside and expedite relations with the NCR. When faced between slavers and anything besides genocide, you pick the anything.
Star trek's federation funnily enough never has expansion issues. I think that is because of possibly better and longer term policies for accepting new territory and the presence of enemies to check overreaching expansion. When the federation makes colonies, not member states, they are shown to abandon them if they can't defend them. We see this with the Maquis and colonies through the wormhole.
In all of the cinematic representations of star wars, there aren't true external powers. The story is more about the plight of the force, with a galaxy spanning war as mere window dressing. The basic plot of star wars could work with the technology of dark age Europe.
I do find the concept of not having traditional external powers to be an interesting situation.
So you could also say that the republic fell because of the fall of the traditional sith empires. Without a centralizing badguy who everyone can rally against, and a force that would take over unwise territorial claims (sectors too far away to defend and supply) people focused on the inequality and class conflicts inherent to a capitalistic liberal democracy. Instead of improving the political and material conditions of the outer rim, they left the region to the worst form of unrestrained lazie-faire capitalism with essentially legalized slavery and overt slavery. Honestly, it would have been better to see the outer rim sectors as independent space. To then partition, or ask if they wished to join the republic when both that sector and republic were ready and willing to incorporate them properly.
I say the same thing would happen to the Separatist Alliance if they won the war, though it would have to happen after Dooku's death. Between the corporations, the autocracies, the democracies, the pirates and mercenaries hired by Dooku, the idealists, and so on, Dooku was the only unifying factor besides the Republic that kept this diverse group together. Afterward, civil war seems inevitable.
@@tristankawatsuma8962 and this is where fiction can have real world utility. How do you balance all these factors. I don't know if I will live to see it, but I think mankind will unite under one banner. I think that this government will be a democracy that has regional power blocks. The question that this entity would face is that of the republic, how do you unite the most diverse group of people when you have no extensional power to oppose?
Do you think we will see a united earth? How do you think it will look like? What do you think could bring it down? How important is bridging the material inequality gap to either creating such an institution or keeping it together?
If you don't think mankind will unite, why?
I would love to get old Republic movie or serie.
"With the Senate acting like the UN except, much more useful"
DAAAAAAMN!
"I guess we are NOT all, in fact, The Republic." _The Separatists probably.
They had a new order, this new order specifically was focused more on military tactics and aversion other than socioeconomic matters. I remember seeing a video that said the Jedi were pretty much just sold short and used by the Republic, since when it came to dealing with people affairs, they didn't know what the heck they were doing. The Jedi didn't MEAN to take it this way, but they are kind of still the primary factor it eventually fell to rots.
I saw a Warhammer pic I did.
Why was there an Imperial Guard Regiment from WH40K at 1:04
I would love to watch a video about the fall of the empire. This one was pretty interesting 💫
Hats off to whoever decided to randomly put Marlon Brando in this video.
Can you do a video on whether or not there are antimatter weapons in Star Wars please!!!
"Like the UN.... but much more useful." burnnnnnnn 😅😅
Do your videos mix cannons?
Sweet 👍
YES ! Analyze the fall of the EMPIRE Please!
This is Canon for me!
The autogenerated captions turned "authoritarianism" into "Fascism" lol
Why was Jor-El in the video?
You used war hammer art for guardsman art from the 8th cadian regiment for in the grim darkness of the 42nd millennia there is only war!!!
1:00 That’s warhammer 40000 art.
Not for direct allegories, but I see similar parallels.of the American government treating its heartland as 'flyover states' and became obsessed with the decadence.of its giant cities, ignoring the rot, cirruption, suffering, and decay from within.
Every Empire will.have its fall, very sobering to remember that truth. This too, shall pass.
The Republic is basically America
That 40k art, nice
When a empire doesn’t provide for its own citizens, that is when it falls. The republic was a empire at the end and turned into “the empire” when it fell. Recall the arc where padme discusses how the republic has been neglecting its own citizens.
When an empire falls it can move leftword, toward socialism or reform and egalitarianism, or it can move right word toward fascism.
In a society without massive class consciousness it requires a large amount of organization to make the empire move the egalitarian route. Otherwise it will usually move towards fascism.
This is a parallel I see in the American empire, which is what George Lucas builds Star Wars around metaphorically, he is write about corporatism also causing the republics collapse but he misses that corporatism is merely a higher stage of capitalism which is workplace fascism and mass exploitation and has the logical end of corruption and corporatism….ie, circle around to the empire failing to provide for its own citizens. And collapse!!
As any 4X player can attribute attempt playing wide is difficult and the Republic is a prime example being so large in of itself would've caused problems.
While I'm no political expert I would've broken up the republic into smaller independent states similar to what the Roman Empire did(twice) and tasked the Jedi with keeping the peace between the new states.
4:43 True
I disagree about the rebellion i believe that was more to do with the the restoration of the republic and removing the emperor, but they found allies in the outer rim because of the fact you mentioned.
I like this. It is good to see WHY the Republic fell. Would be good if you also looked at how bad the Empire was, since a lot of fans tend to gloss over that.
I feel like the Empire's brutality is so normalized, that most fans tend to gloss over it, as you say, in favor of dropping rubbish on The Republic. Which in all fairness deserves a lot of critiques (and mockery for it's open corruption), but the problem kinda comes when folk connect the failings of the Republic with the fact it was supposed to be a democracy.
(And at the risk of starting a whole thing here: thus democracy in general being pinpointed as "the issue", kinda mirroring what's going on in our world right now with the decline of democracy and the rise of authoritarian leaders with quite a lot of folk being ready to sign up and support them and their empty promises if it means (in their minds) things are better for them. Ironically, we are kinda in a similar situation in our world to The Republic in many ways, and so while acknowledging an authoritarian dictatorship isn't a pleasant or good thing, and in fact is incredibly brutal, which many can acknowledge, I suppose there is more fun for many to be had on dunking on democracy while secretly (or openly) being ready to bail and jump ship to the authoritarian leader bus. Only problem is that fixing issues and making the world a better place for everyone won't happen if you get a more or less wrinkle faced despot in a cloak/suit wielding unlimited power, rather than trying to fix and evolve democracy past this current pit it's slid into for a whole heck of a lot of reasons, and taking notes to learn from those lessons to boot too, so it doesn't happen again. The whole erosion of democracy thing shouldn't be happening ever again, once this current mess is eventually mopped up and dealt with. Noting here at the end before the very opinionated and quick to arrive US politics gang gets their jimmies rustled and smells blood, I am not talking about the US alone here, as it would be wise to remember the US is just one of many struggling democracies around the world right now, and so thus I would ask said folk to think a bit bigger than only focusing on a single nation in a literal ocean of nations if they wish to drop their two Republic credits worth of opinion on this end point.)
@@videocrowsnest5251 Yes. I find it sad, that the Empire is just excused, and somewhat disturbed that people are doing similar things with real conflicts.
Democracy dies when people let it.
The Republic simply got too big to maintain itself. There are now too many worlds to keep track of.
I did the numbers in calculations with the senate seats & members... the republic had about 50 million inhabitable planets, with many more as mining colonies which were not always inhabitable... about 5 million systems or so.
While the empire had 80 to 100 million worlds.
With 10 worlds per system with each senator having 50 systems being represented for each official in the senate... that means that the galactic senate should be about 100,000 representors at least... with many more members eventfully joining in later years if still standing as a republic with extra seats on standby... it should be 250,000 seats just in case.
Long story short; the galactic senate is way too small to represent everyone in the republic... because we all know that there are only 2000 to 10,000 seats in the senate building, so they need to expand it in order to support everyone in the republic.
Too many worlds being represented by so few people in office causes complications + corruption, incompetence and unfair voices that don't support their basic needs.
The Republic just got way too big to be governable, just like the roman empire... so it had to be split in two to become more manageable, and way too expensive as well due to overpopulation & over development in projects to support all societies going on all the time... it's just too much, that's why there were heavy taxes and not just being about corruption.
Especially when parts of the whole galaxy is running out of resources... sooner or later, they're going to have to advance their technology in multiple fields to leave their home galaxy and search for a new untapped one to settle in to survive.
Or just mine the unsettled parts of the outer rim + wild space and unknown regions... which we all know are resource rich.
I believe that the republic needed to be fairly split into two pieces to allow it to function more efficiently... the inner & outer republic = inner representing the core, inner & mid rim worlds... and the outer representing the outer rim + some mid rim worlds, wild space and unknown regions... still trade with one another as allies like a federation with balanced & sorted economies, but encourage vast amounts of core, inner populations to move to the outskirts to balance out its demands in resource issues.
Then it'll sort itself out with fixing the problems in lack of resources + money and inequalities, for a time... but it might actually work and bring about some more stability once again for the first time in centuries = and last a few more if lucky.
Most Based Star Wars channel.
All things have to die out, even if they're long living.
And really, if there's one thing the likes of Charles Dickens knows all too well, it's that poverty can lead to these muckcracks.
Edit: Oh, yes, do analyze it, and also how it actually survived in some capacity as the Imperial Remnant and eventually the Fel Empire.
this is ture cycle of war in the Star Wars universe is the cycle of bad governance. That why first order rose because of bad governance. How ever the lack of center military did help palpatine rise the emperor because the republic was too weak to hold things together. Also the citizens lost faith in the Jedi to keep them safe.
Collecting taxes without really doing anything to earn it... now as a modern American, WHERE have I seen this? Hmm 🤔
Sounds familiar 🤔
The outer Rim will rise Again Long live the confederacy of independent systems
The outer rim and mid rim need their own separate governments or something.
The hutt regime is in the form of an empire. The hutt Clan runs the Outer Rim.
@@Bennahr_Fett the hutt's influence was greatly reduced after jabba's death.
@@CloneScavengerVulpin8389 Thats fair enough but compared to 20,000 years of Hutt space and a military comparable to even the Republic's GATR. I think they made an ever-lasting impression.
@@Bennahr_Fett you are correct.
It was Jar Jar.
For our wallets!!
Not all who criticize the Republic as being inherently flawed support the Empire. As an anarchist I believe that political freedom without economic equality is a pretense or a fraud. So the space capitalism in a bourgeois republic is inherently flawed.
Power Centralization is always a bad idea. Just look at our world today and you see why
Long Live the Empire
Analyze the fall of the empire
Sad.on some many levels.
Millennia not centuries. Let’s not sugar coat it.
Yes yes please
The conflict was inspired by the US Civil War. Despite the false argument that the Union aka the Republic fought to "free the slaves" the real truth is that the entire conflict was inspired by the federal govt's regional centrism and neglectful treatment of it's southern territories.
As with Star Wars, the Central planets or Northern States both had trade monopolies and forcibly ensured that they were the heart of commerce and industrialization. They used tariffs and trade laws to keep it that way and actively lobbied to keep the South/Rim from gaining as much power. They actively hindered them. This caused a massive political rift where Southern and some northern states like Maryland and Illinois both began to see the New England domination of federal govt as something that needed to come to an end. The spark of rebellion was exasperated by the conflict between slavers and abolitionists which was becoming increasing violent and stands in as the Sith/Jedi conflict.
You'll notice that even some of the characters have traits in common with US civil war generals. Robert E Lee and Dooku are extremely similar in appearance, speech, etc.
The high water mark of the war was also an attempted blitz of the capital, the parallels are hard to miss the closer you look
@@ZontarDow It is so obvious yet I constantly see people who completely miss that point. Usually they are poorly educated and confused because they believe that the war was a benevolent act by the Union to free the poor slaves and have zero knowledge of the deeper political and economic realities of the conflict. Freeing the slaves was the justification, not the cause. Basically the same thing as what the Republic did at Geonosis (which technically was legal since Padme, Obi-Wan, and Anakin were illegally there and killed a bunch of geonosian civilians, I mean they were spies and committed war crimes.)
Guess what? Thats why America has a Electoral College
Man who doesn't like Star Wars politics
It’s better and more interesting than politics in real life at least
@@davidordaz5251 yeah even with the grey realism esc feel. Power in Star Wars mean controlling entire planets and systems at a time. Even bigger!
@@gib1720 very true so many political battles on different planets and systems as opposed to everything is just on one planet like in our real world
love the little UN roast. they really are useless
Despite hearing about the democracy and the Ruusan Reformation in the new light, I'm still not a fan of democracy because it welcomes debates. And while a bunch of politicians are arguing what to do, people are dying outside. And yes, I know that some of the Russian Tsars did not make the best decisions but that is because they let their own arrogance blinded them and because of that, their defeats such as during the early battles against Napoleon and the ones during Crimean War were inevitable. But the point is that it is very fast and very decisive. And the best part is that the Tsar's words are absolute and no military generals and government officials can do anything about it unless the Tsar changed the mind on his own.
By the way, I think it is now the time to introduce the concept of nation-state to Star Wars. For example, if the Core Worlds wanted to have the Republic, let them become the Republic of the Core Worlds. As for the worlds in the Outer Rim, they decided to allied with one another to form the new government known as the Outer Rim Alliance for their own protection from the other states and piracy.
That very well could happen in Canon now that the First Order is being torn up by rebellions and the New Republic is fractured thanks to surviving senators focusing on the remaining military to protect their homes instead of defending the galaxy. Any sense of unity in the galaxy is likely gone. Sure, they came together against the Final Order, but how long until these new factions begin to fight over power? Though to be honest I would have no clue who would come out on top. The Outer Rim has historically been quite poor and the Core Rim has been engulfed by wars, revolutions, and a loss of interest by the galaxy in recent decades that it's no longer a true force of power. One thing's for sure, I have my doubts if anyone would agree to some galactic alliance even in the face of new threats. If anything, a threat has to be shown to be so massive that it would be near-apocalyptic to mobilize the galaxy. The galaxy only mobilized after Lando's call for help. If anything, an invading force would simply have to wait until the galaxy wastes resources fighting itself to invade.
@@tristankawatsuma8962 The reason why I think some planets will still ally with one another while also advocating for the nation-state to be applied in the galaxy is because not only that it has been proven that the galaxy is too large for the both the Republic and the Empire to govern but also to protect themselves from other threats such as pirates and the other states that wanted to expand their territories as well. I can see that the Hutts will be among those who emerged as one of the galaxy's major powers now that the First Order is gone along with other groups such as the Pykes, the Black Sun, the Banking Clan, the Commerce Guild and the Corporate Alliance. So when the concept of nation-state become a thing, I can see the polities like the Republic of the Core Worlds and the Outer Rim Alliance coexisted with the fully independent Hutt Space and the Corporate Sector.
Mmh seems like the west today to me.
This is very true. The empire improved on this! Long live the Empire!
No the empire was the same if not worse than the republic with a dictatorship and wasn’t good for the galaxy as a whole
@@davidordaz5251 the outer rim got safer at least with imperial pirate crackdowns being extremely efficient
@@Stewie_Guy99 no the outer rim was always chaotic even in the republic days even the empire couldn’t tame the outer rim completely which says a lot about them
@@davidordaz5251 true, the empire helped a little but it was indeed a very crazy place
I would say “worse” is absolutely the way to describe it. Sure, you can say the Empire just got rid of the middle man corporations or made them completely subservient to the government. However I would say the Republic’s worst trait was ignorance or neglect. What development the Empire brought to the Outer Rim only bled the planets faster than the corporations probably did. They also ignored a number of criminals and pirates, focusing mostly on rebels and insurgents. The Republic at least has the excuse of laziness and underfunding the Judicial Forces. Not justifiable, but compared to the Empire which had more manpower than even the Clone Wars Republic and more firepower than the previous state as well as a giant presence in the Outer Rim, they have an even worse excuse. Honestly I wonder if the Empire inspired more anger in the Outer Rim than the Republic. Until the Clone Wars the worst the Republic did was ignore the Outer Rim. Then came the Clone Wars where at least the fighting was more focused between the armies. Whole planets and systems were actually ignored by both sides. Then came the Empire where everybody, Republic, Separatist, and neutrals were brutalized. There honestly is no easy solution to this situation for the Outer Rim, but what did happen clearly wasn’t that answer. The Separatists basically are no different from the Republic and the Empire was far worse than both states. Honestly an alternative government is one of two solutions I think would work, but inevitably they would need some backing militarily and economically until they could stand on their own. The corporations and Sith were just the wrong backers. Perhaps the Republic could have been such a backer, but the Jedi would have to be needed to ensure the Republic funding is supportive and not controlling. Obi-Wan probably would be the best Jedi to act as a watchdog/mediator as he understands both the Outer and Core Rim quite well.
I'm glad the Republican feel no Taxation without representation mtf.
Things that were right to secede:
The South.
The Donbas.
The Outer Rim.
One cause. One struggle.
One of those things is not like the others.
@@heltaku9397, they are all alike.
All were oppressed by a central authority
All sought to leave that central authority.
All faced that central authority retaliating with even greater cruelty than before.
All still safe that entity of evil.
@@MatthewChenault 🤨....yeah, nah.
Like
The picture was cool, but the voice is insufferable for a lack of animation.
The Republic is not easily fixed; every solution addressing one issue can cause other issues when taken too far.
Examples:
Give regional governments more authority and sovereignity. That way the core worlds cannot exploit the rim. However, now some worlds exploit there own people, including slavery. After all, many seperatist worlds did incorperate that.
Set up laws in a new constitution guarenteeing equal benefits and taxes to all member worlds. Now every world needs to pay the same taxes, even when planets are too small and poor to afford them
Split off some responsibilities of the republic to the sector levels. Now sectors can war against each other or have the same problems as the Republic.
I am not anti republic. I just recognize the difficulty of fixing its problems. Having a central government able to interfere in conflicts and reign in regional excesses is a good thing in my opinion, even at the loss of sovereignty. The European Union comes to mind. It also helps member states work together against outside threats, both military and economic.