Funny because I possibly have the relatively narrowest feet of anybody I know on TH-cam or otherwise (and nearly the longest) but after my first run in these I also got a couple of blood blisters on the side of my right big toe. Wore them again plastered up and was OK but think am also Hoka'd in that found them a bit meh. That said 5mm drop shoes are not my thing and there is just something about the general shape of Hoka shoes that I don't seem to get on with. I tend to think they have a "torpedo" fit where the width is quite similar all along the length. Maybe as I always have to pull in shoes to get a good lockdown across the midfoot the upper then also comes in a bit too much although they did not really appear to be rubbing on side of my toe but clearly must have been at times - perhaps when was cornerning as I often do when doing my CityStrides runs. Interesting you say they are all different as I have always thought Hoka shoes all looked very similar. Only Hoka I have "sort of" liked is the Rocket X2 but that is only as a kind of "super" trainer. That said only have otherwise tried the Carbon X1, Rocket X1 and the original Rincon so hardly a wide view of their lineup. I have managed about 35 miles in mine but not sure am inclined to wear them again. For others they seem to be the shoe of the year. Always good there is a wide choice of shoes for different tastes and foot shapes. Will see if we like the Peg 41 better...
Totally agree on the “torpedo” fit. It’s not even a straight last… it’s oddly curved in the front and straight the rest of the way. I’ve definitely seen that in Cliftons before and speedboats always felt like a box on my foot too. Welcome to the “Hoka’d” club.
Thank you for the review. I've tried to get excited about the Mach 6 but every review mentions the fit. I tried on a pair at my local running store and they seemed really short (not so much narrow). I'm a US size 13 so moving up a half size is not a possibility so i passed. I have the Cielo X1 and have absolutely loved the fit and feel of the shoe. No issues with rubbing or hotspots. However, it seems like this is the exception and not the rule when it comes to Hoka's🤷🏼 Too bad because I love direction they are taking with mid-sole geometry and foams. Unfortunately, all positives are quickly negated when a shoe causes discomfort due to fit.
Ya, the Cielo x1 is definitely a fit outlier for Hoka right now. It has a rather generous and “normal” fit, which is odd. Hike out a very conservative upper on their wildest midsole. Odd, but good for those who works for. I’m intrigue what Hoka is doing with brier midsoles and tech… but I may just be watching from afar and doing design/technical analysis for a while… we shall see.
A beautifully well-made shoe. Upper, midsole, outsole, beautiful. BUT, for those of us w/ a bit of volume - i guess the dorsal area? - geez, forget flexing the toes. AND, my right PF (heel area) started to seriously object yesterday on a 5 miler. (Yet, no problem w/ the mach 5! Although the outsole width reminds me of a snowshoe.) I did remove the insole of the 6, makes it a bit more comfortable for hanging out. Looking forward to the SL2 and new hyperion.
The Mach 5 for like a tent compared to the Mach 6 and the midsole of the Mach 5 was so unstructured in feel I’m surprised it could offend anyone. Now durability was another story. Glad I’m not alone in what I felt in the Mach 6. It is one of Hokas best made and best looking shoes in… well forever. Really top ability there and if it fits your foot it’s a great shoe.
Great review, I was looking for a light bouncy long distance shoe.. Good I did not find the Mach 6 in wide yet.. The Cielo X1 is my favourite long distance shoe at the moment. Cielo X1 is the first Hoka that fits my wide feet.
I've found most of your impressions to be accurate, though not entirely with the fit. I do have the wide version and the toebox has plenty of room. The volume tightness is there, but higher up in the mid-lacing, though once I'm running I don't notice it so it's not a concern. I have no problems with the 'support', I wouldn't have known it was there if you hadn't mentioned it, and after 150km I haven't had any foot issues at all. It's a very comfortable shoe with a bit of pep (more than the Mach 5) and enough cushioning for long runs. Bottom line, shoe fit is very personal and we each have to find out what works best for our unique feet.
Agree, shoes are very personal. Finding what works for you is key. What I’m also going to do on this channel is be as direct and clear as I can be on how the shoes work for me. Overtime one and identify that they have similar tastes to me or totally opposite tastes to help inform their choices. That’s my goal with reviews. Sounds like you have a Hoka foot. So if you like the brand you are lucky.
@@SagasuRunning Thank you; you've developed an excellent channel and you provide a level of detail I don't hear elsewhere. I've tried a few brands and they all seem to have differences between shoes. For instance, the Mach 5 is a lovely fit, the Mach 6 only reasonable. With Saucony, the Tempus is a perfect fit, the ES2 and ES3 good, but not ideal. Asics have been good, though I found the Kayano to be a bit clunky and loose (I won't be buying another heavy shoe). I wish the manufacturers would decide on a foot profile and stick to it! On balance, Saucony seem closest to my preferred fit at the moment. That said, I haven't tried the range of shoes you have, so maybe there's a better shoe for me somewhere.
Thank you for saying that. I definitely find Nike fits me consistently well. Adidas also very well, though one or two models have odd sizing. Asics is ok, the Metaspeeds fit me the best and Asics race or fast uppers are better than their trainer uppers. Puma would be next, really love how the VN3 fits. I also like Nnormal fits, though it takes some trial and error. All other brands are a mixed bag or require workarounds or some level for me. As I said… it’s good there is alot of choice in the marketplace right now. Anyone can find something that works for them well.
I just ran into the same problem with the Skyward X. Initially I loved it on a short run…from there on it was all down hill! Holy hot spot. I kept trying to break it in to no avail! I ultimately sold it at a loss because it was just killing my mid lateral foot (I don’t have a wide foot either). I have the same problem with the Hola Mach X. I am also a forefoot striker that supinates.
I found a great deal on Mach 6, but I don't have a place for it in my rotation (yet). At the same time, Adizero SL2 is just around the corner, which I believe will be a great shoe. I'm very well aware of the pain caused by the medial sidewalls (amplified by the inward rotation of the foot), I'd like to not have that experience repeated with the Mach 6. Thanks for the video!
Interesting I’m not alone with the sidewall rotation issue on Hokas. I’ve never heard it mentioned before. I also think the SL2 will be outstanding. I’m curious to see how much overlap it will have with the Mach 6 for speed work… but there are a few oust non-plated workout shoes on the horizon. Thank you for watching. 🤙🏻
Im so with you on fit. I love the Tecton x. its like one of, if not the best shoe ive ever run in. And, i dont think the Tecton X2 is bad, far from it, yet the fit is different enough, for me to stop every few miles, having to retie it, because the fit is so inconsistent.
Ya… Hoka’s trail shoes are even MORE finicky about fit. I’m very intrigued by the tech in the Tecton and was considering trying the x3 this year… but there is absolutely no way my foot would work in the upper. I’ll still try it on to see… but not expecting much. Also I don’t have the terrain here in Taiwan for it at all either…
I think it's the prominent sidewalls in Hoka shoes that are the main issue for me. I tend to get a rubbing point on my pinky toes in the Mach and Speedgoat. It's not really about toe box width or volume.
I've defintely gotten that in the past, in fact that was the most common issue I had with the sidewalls, mostly in Speedgoats and Rincons. I didn't have that in the Mach 6. Just the sidewall issues I discussed. So that is something, one less sidewall issue. Progress Hoka...Progress!
I've had similar issues (frame digging into medial arch, insole pinching) in Saucony Endorphin Pro 3 which is considered "wide-foot friendly" so I can't even imagine this kind of discomfort in a daily trainer.
Wow… I don’t run in the EP3 but based on trying the ES3 on and my experiences with the ES4 and EP4… I can’t imagine them ever being and issue for any foot. Definitely avoid Hoka at all costs… haha.
I tried these on a demo run at Global Running Day and I really liked the fit on my foot, nicely wrapping on the mid-foot. I guess my footshape is more compatible with this shoe.I have flattish feet and I guess narrower so I didn't feel any issues with sidewalls. I really liked the bounce and energy return I am getting. I am not going to rush to get a pair however. I am working to retire a few pairs of shoes before I consider getting another training shoe.
If you have the foot that fits these (and Hokas) you have a solid shoe here. Alot of fun to run in and a great non-plated workout shoe. Is it the shoe of the year? No, but it is good...if it fits.
The plantar pain you feel in this is what I got in the NovaBlast 3. I ran 400 miles in the nova 2 and loved it the whole way but the 3 was painful all the way up to its current 75 miles, no matter how it was laced or worn. My Hoka’d was the Mach 4 where it was fast soft and bouncy up to 140 miles and then the foam died and was flat out of nowhere.
Ya… all the foam sidewalks in the NB3 from the 2 were a massive change. The NB3 never bothered my foot, I just hated the shoe. Hoka foam dying quickly is CLASSIC Hoka’d…. The most common kind. I didn’t run in the Mach 4…. But I ran in the 3. Same thing happens to me in the Mach 3, Rincon 1/2 and Clifton 5/6
That's interesting, I've definitely been Hoka'd once with a Clifton 7. Something just gave in the midsole and it started hurting me constantly, I ended up throwing the pair out. I have a pair of Speedgoats and Challengers that I've used as daily shoes for over a year and they are totally fine.
That’s the QC Hoka’d issue. I had a few Hokas, years ago, that just had some random failure in them that caused the shoe to be unusable suddenly. It seems to be a recurring thing for the brand. Even all these years later.
I was Hoka'd as well with the Clifton 9. I have a pretty normal foot, but after being Hoka'd by the Mach X, I got the wide version of the Clifton 9. The low volume toe box that seem to be prevalent in all Hokas now was just too compressive on my foot even though the width was ok. The knit upper didn't help matters either (for me). I have to rely on other brands now.
Odd. I didn’t try the Clifton 9 on but ran a lot on the Clifton 4,5,6… I remember the uppers fit like tents on those. The pressure on the front of the foot with low volume uppers is really not great for run feel.
If a shoe is too easy to run fast in, I don't find that to be a criticism. I've got about 80 miles in my Mach 6. Fit was a bit tight at first, but I used a lacing technique to fix that. So, for me the Mach 6 has been a very good shoe so far.
For an easy day shoe it is for me. I have plenty of fast shoes to run in. Having a shoe that encourages easy (slow) running, that is engaging and well considered, is much more rare. I did really like the Mach 6 for workouts, with easy warmups and cooldowns, as it handle that range well. It was never a shoe I’d grab for a dedicated easy run… beyond my testing I did for my reviews.
@@SagasuRunning I see your point if you were expecting this to be an easy day shoe. But since the Mach 6 does also encourage me to run fast, then I just consider this to be a shoe for my fast workouts. Maybe Hoka isn't marketing this shoe properly?
I owned 2 pairs of the Mach4, loved the shoe, outsole outlasted the midsole in both cases. But I have found I'm still not ready for 5mm drops. Even 6mm I notice if I run in 6mms too often. 8mm is my perfect sweet spot. I don't suspect I will ever run in a 5mm shoe again, atleast for road training. As for the fit, I think it just comes down to you aren't a HOKA guy. I never experienced fit issues in any of the HOKA shoes I owned (Rincon V1, Bondi V6, 2 pairs of Mach4, Carbon X1). Similar to how you find the Boston 12 is a great fit. I had to give them away...and ultimately got a pair of Endorphin Pro 3's from the same guy as a trade for the Bostons! And where normally the Endo Speeds give me heel issues, the Pro (which I suspect is the less rigid/structured heel counter/cup) has worked amazing for me.
@@SagasuRunning The dual layer mach4 was the first time I had a HOKA midsole last beyond 500km. Rincon V1 I pushed to 250km. Their pure EVA was just terrible for going flat way too early, especially on the medial side.
Interesting to see a negative review on this shoe - reviews elsewhere have been very positive. I've put 155.2 km into it, and set my 5k PB in it. I found it pretty tight in the store, and ended up going a half size up rather than going into the wide. They're still tight on me, but not painfully so, with no hot-spots or blisters. So far, the foam hasn't died on me, and it's still extremely light and bouncy underfoot. Fingers crossed, hoping I don't get Hoka'd!
Other than my fit issues and being Hoka’d…. I’m fairly positive on this shoe. If you have a Hoka shaped foot and can get a comfortable fit and the sidewalks don’t bother you…. It’s a great option as a non-plated workout shoe. That type of shoe is very rare. I will be covering some better options to replace this shoe in the coming months. Stay tuned.
This is the exact same problem I had with a pair of Hoka Mach Supersonic a few years ago. I gave them to a friend after nearly 100 k and he loved them😅
Hoka'd experiences: Mach 4 foam died after 100 miles/160km. That was rough because I loved the ride at first. Challenger 6 was waaayyyyyyy too firm and uncomfortable for the road. But my worst ever experience being "Hoka'd" was the Asics Nova Blast 2. That shoe made my ankle bleed through my sock after a 7 mile run.
My experience coming from the Mach 5: Fit is too narow, wide is similar to Mach 5 regular and fits great for me. There was a break in time, at 1st it felt like a brick, very stiff. After 50-60k it's great. I like it more than the Mach 5. Compared to Mach 5 the foam doesn't bottom out at the end of my run. I agree that the shoe is better when running faster, but didn't have a problem at relaxed pace. I think it's pretty versatile. It's bouncier than Novablast 4, but less bouncier/slower than Saucony Speed 3. But the lower drop is great for my problematic knee. I will agree that it's very annoying that Hola ich changing the fit all the time.
Ya… the Hoka fit is so problematic .4)343 is no reason someone should have to go from a standard width to a wide width, in one generation, to get the same fit. Inexcusable.
That's disappointing to hear that this particular model did not work out for you... I found a similar sizing issue with New Balance shoes which made me switch to Hoka for that very point. A good example would be the difference between the Rebel v3 and Rebel v4, the v3 was too narrow even in wide and the v4 was too wide in the wide version (fit like a 4E) lol. I'm also disappointed that NB continues to discontinue some of their top models every few years that are best sellers such as the zante and the beacon... really wish they could've just upgraded the foams in them. Nonetheless this was a very good review of the Mach 6, just subscribed!
Besides Hoka the only other brand I’ve ever had real fit issues with is New Balance.This goes back to 2015 or so as well. The 2024 NB fits are absolutely atrocious. Just comically awful. It was unfortunate with the Mach 6. It was great until it wasn’t… but the it’s the story with Hokas for me for a long time. Thank you for subscribing. Hopefully I’ll cover some things you are interested in.
i was about to get the mach 6 in wide till i saw your review - thanks! you've given the invincible run 3 much praise; width-wise how did that fit you? it was too narrow for me
My only 2 Hokas are the Bondi 8 - which I dont like (I thoughts super mushy soft, for standing all day, but its a firm brick) and the Hoka Mach X - which is by no means bad at all, but it feels just like a super generic shoe... thats not a bad thing, its just too boring for me. Since that I hestitate a lot to get deeper into Hoka. So yooour thoughts and opinions is my only source x)
I agree. There are so many other shoes out there that one doesn’t NEED to dig into Hoka and troubleshoot endlessly to get them to work. Ten years ago was a different story. Now… so many options. I will keep an eye on the brand and their tech though. They seem to be trying many interesting things.
I have similar but different issues with the Hoka fit. Only my left foot in any Hoka i have tried, the shoe feels too narrow in the exterior midfoot area. From your description this is likely caused by the sidewall and low volume. I feel it immediately upon slipping on the shoe, and there are just too many good shoes out there to put up with the poor Hoka fit. (Wide does not help.)
Agree. I don’t know why Hoka’s midsole sidewalls are so aggressive. Almost ever other brand does the same thing. Only Hoka’s cause problems though. I’m glad I’m not alone here.
if you think Hoka is crazy you should check out some Muzinos. or however it's called. they tend to be on the firmer side of cushion, more like On, but they've got all these layers to them. Some of them have 3 different layers of foam. I don't mind Hoka, imo/e they actually have higher quality, at least in terms of materials, than some other stuff. but when it comes down to it, I gravitate more to NB for that less rockered geometry and more flexibility, softer cushion for a lightweight like myself, wide fit and lower drops. I do really enjoy the more plush uppers, collars, tongues on the hokas though. What kinda funny is hoka makes a version of the bondi for nurses but all the nurses just use regular versions. I see the hokas all the time but it's never the one made for healthcare workers.
Mizuno is definitely out there. I'm following them now, if something interesting to talk about pops up or comes out I'll try to get it. I actually don't hate Hoka...they just don't work for my foot. It's something I've tried to make work over the years, and likely will try again, but they never do.
@@SagasuRunning Not that it means anything really, but I found the Gaviota most comfortable. It's kinda like a wider kayano with less drop. not many so called stability i would even try but some of them are okay. I wear out shoes on my lateral side so most stability shoes just mean sprained ankles in my world.
I paid alot of money for my Hoka Cielo X1 and im feeling some discomfort in my inner ankle area after my runs with it-50km so far. I really wanna make it work but i'm afraid of aggravating a potential injury. My speed 4 and superblast dont cause this I'm assuming its because of stability attributes. Unsure what to do :(
That could be a mix of the inherent instability of the Cielo x1 and the ankle collar is high. I noticed that trying the shoe on. I’d be careful with it. Use it for shorter runs to see if the problems persist or your body adapts. The other two shoes you mentioned are both much more stable than the Cielo x1.
I bought the very first Bondi, Mafate and Stinson when they didn't even have a version number and run a lot in them, but that was a long time ago. Since then I bought a few other models ... Bondi 2 and 3 ... Clifton 1 and 2 ... Challenger 1 and 2 and all of them gave me problems ... the Bondi 2 upper didn't even last for 50 k and ripped. Never again will I buy a Hoka shoe. But, I must admit, the Mafate which is now maybe 12 years old seems indestructible, its still my cold weather "walking the dog in the forest" shoe.
The first generation or two of Hokas were overbuilt and bulky. Not surprised one is still around for you. A lot has changed since then. The period between 2014-2018 was especially rough for the brand with QC.
Thank you! Very interesting from your point of feet :) For my feet the Mach 6 is true to size, it fits like a glove and I love to run in it. How different feet can be :)
You have a Hoka shaped foot. I've tried so many Hokas over the years and even if they are ok for a while (like this one) I ultimately get Hoka'd every single time...sadly. Yes, running shoes are crazy how personal they are to our feet. It's always fascinating to me how experiences differ so.
@Maochan81 the outsole on the Mach 6 is definitely great…. Maybe the best Hoka outsole to date for the brand. Full rubber coverage but that Hoka feel is still intact.
I have two pairs of Puma (Magnify and Eternity nitro) and they both curve up at the lateral edge of the forefoot which causes a big toe/knuckle blister anything over 10km. Sounds kind of similar weirdness. Why would anyone want that in the forefoot of a shoe?
The only Puma shoe I have experience with is the Velocity Nitro 3, which has given me no foot issues at all in 100miles. People have said the toebox of Pumas are narrow, but I’m not finding that the case at all.
adidas SL2 is the main one. Much better performance trainer all around. The ASICS Hyper Speed 4 is the other…. Though I’m having an issue finding a pair at the moment.
@@SagasuRunning Thank you. I just got done looking into the SL2 & I’m going to look into the other ones. I run 5Ks on the regular. I participate in 5K races when I can but a lot of them are unfortunately casual. Mainly I’d like to have a lightweight shoe, that is more responsive than cushiony, and that helps with speed (getting my times down). Which shoe(s) would you recommend me to look into? Plated shoes are optional too. $140-$180 is almost same price range to me. I spend avg $200+ on jordans so 😅😅
For 5k racing…. You want the Adidas Takumi Sen 10. It fits your list of requirements nearly perfectly. Combine that with a SL2 for training and you have an excellent little training/racing pair.
@@SagasuRunning thank you for the recs! Last question lol. How would you compare those to the Saucony Endorphin Speed 4? Those are really catching my eye.
The ES4 is a strong tempo trainer…. It it’s not as fast as the TS10 and its plated so I’ll never recommend it as a daily trainer. The SL2/TS10 combo is much more dedicated to 5k racing.
Yes! This was the issue I had - LOVED the bouncy-ness of this shoe but they hurt the inside of my arches so bad. Are there HOKA models that dont cause this that are good for flat feet (my flat feet don't give me any issues so doesn't need to be corrected)?
To your question… I have no idea. Every. Single. Hoka…. Has a different fit. You would literally need to go to a Hoka store and try them all on. I will say that the sidewalls in the Mach 6 are present in every Hoka as well and can often cause similar (or new) issues.
Funny because I possibly have the relatively narrowest feet of anybody I know on TH-cam or otherwise (and nearly the longest) but after my first run in these I also got a couple of blood blisters on the side of my right big toe. Wore them again plastered up and was OK but think am also Hoka'd in that found them a bit meh. That said 5mm drop shoes are not my thing and there is just something about the general shape of Hoka shoes that I don't seem to get on with. I tend to think they have a "torpedo" fit where the width is quite similar all along the length. Maybe as I always have to pull in shoes to get a good lockdown across the midfoot the upper then also comes in a bit too much although they did not really appear to be rubbing on side of my toe but clearly must have been at times - perhaps when was cornerning as I often do when doing my CityStrides runs. Interesting you say they are all different as I have always thought Hoka shoes all looked very similar. Only Hoka I have "sort of" liked is the Rocket X2 but that is only as a kind of "super" trainer. That said only have otherwise tried the Carbon X1, Rocket X1 and the original Rincon so hardly a wide view of their lineup. I have managed about 35 miles in mine but not sure am inclined to wear them again. For others they seem to be the shoe of the year. Always good there is a wide choice of shoes for different tastes and foot shapes. Will see if we like the Peg 41 better...
Totally agree on the “torpedo” fit. It’s not even a straight last… it’s oddly curved in the front and straight the rest of the way. I’ve definitely seen that in Cliftons before and speedboats always felt like a box on my foot too.
Welcome to the “Hoka’d” club.
Thank you for the review. I've tried to get excited about the Mach 6 but every review mentions the fit. I tried on a pair at my local running store and they seemed really short (not so much narrow). I'm a US size 13 so moving up a half size is not a possibility so i passed.
I have the Cielo X1 and have absolutely loved the fit and feel of the shoe. No issues with rubbing or hotspots.
However, it seems like this is the exception and not the rule when it comes to Hoka's🤷🏼
Too bad because I love direction they are taking with mid-sole geometry and foams.
Unfortunately, all positives are quickly negated when a shoe causes discomfort due to fit.
Ya, the Cielo x1 is definitely a fit outlier for Hoka right now. It has a rather generous and “normal” fit, which is odd. Hike out a very conservative upper on their wildest midsole. Odd, but good for those who works for. I’m intrigue what Hoka is doing with brier midsoles and tech… but I may just be watching from afar and doing design/technical analysis for a while… we shall see.
A beautifully well-made shoe. Upper, midsole, outsole, beautiful. BUT, for those of us w/ a bit of volume - i guess the dorsal area? - geez, forget flexing the toes. AND, my right PF (heel area) started to seriously object yesterday on a 5 miler. (Yet, no problem w/ the mach 5! Although the outsole width reminds me of a snowshoe.)
I did remove the insole of the 6, makes it a bit more comfortable for hanging out. Looking forward to the SL2 and new hyperion.
The Mach 5 for like a tent compared to the Mach 6 and the midsole of the Mach 5 was so unstructured in feel I’m surprised it could offend anyone. Now durability was another story.
Glad I’m not alone in what I felt in the Mach 6. It is one of Hokas best made and best looking shoes in… well forever. Really top ability there and if it fits your foot it’s a great shoe.
Great review, I was looking for a light bouncy long distance shoe.. Good I did not find the Mach 6 in wide yet.. The Cielo X1 is my favourite long distance shoe at the moment. Cielo X1 is the first Hoka that fits my wide feet.
The Cielo X1 has a oddly generous fit for what that shoe it. it fits my foot just fine as well.
I've found most of your impressions to be accurate, though not entirely with the fit. I do have the wide version and the toebox has plenty of room. The volume tightness is there, but higher up in the mid-lacing, though once I'm running I don't notice it so it's not a concern. I have no problems with the 'support', I wouldn't have known it was there if you hadn't mentioned it, and after 150km I haven't had any foot issues at all. It's a very comfortable shoe with a bit of pep (more than the Mach 5) and enough cushioning for long runs. Bottom line, shoe fit is very personal and we each have to find out what works best for our unique feet.
Agree, shoes are very personal. Finding what works for you is key.
What I’m also going to do on this channel is be as direct and clear as I can be on how the shoes work for me. Overtime one and identify that they have similar tastes to me or totally opposite tastes to help inform their choices. That’s my goal with reviews.
Sounds like you have a Hoka foot. So if you like the brand you are lucky.
@@SagasuRunning Thank you; you've developed an excellent channel and you provide a level of detail I don't hear elsewhere. I've tried a few brands and they all seem to have differences between shoes. For instance, the Mach 5 is a lovely fit, the Mach 6 only reasonable. With Saucony, the Tempus is a perfect fit, the ES2 and ES3 good, but not ideal. Asics have been good, though I found the Kayano to be a bit clunky and loose (I won't be buying another heavy shoe). I wish the manufacturers would decide on a foot profile and stick to it! On balance, Saucony seem closest to my preferred fit at the moment. That said, I haven't tried the range of shoes you have, so maybe there's a better shoe for me somewhere.
Thank you for saying that.
I definitely find Nike fits me consistently well. Adidas also very well, though one or two models have odd sizing. Asics is ok, the Metaspeeds fit me the best and Asics race or fast uppers are better than their trainer uppers. Puma would be next, really love how the VN3 fits. I also like Nnormal fits, though it takes some trial and error. All other brands are a mixed bag or require workarounds or some level for me.
As I said… it’s good there is alot of choice in the marketplace right now. Anyone can find something that works for them well.
I just ran into the same problem with the Skyward X. Initially I loved it on a short run…from there on it was all down hill! Holy hot spot. I kept trying to break it in to no avail! I ultimately sold it at a loss because it was just killing my mid lateral foot (I don’t have a wide foot either). I have the same problem with the Hola Mach X. I am also a forefoot striker that supinates.
You’ve been Hoka’d… welcome to the club.
I found a great deal on Mach 6, but I don't have a place for it in my rotation (yet). At the same time, Adizero SL2 is just around the corner, which I believe will be a great shoe. I'm very well aware of the pain caused by the medial sidewalls (amplified by the inward rotation of the foot), I'd like to not have that experience repeated with the Mach 6.
Thanks for the video!
Interesting I’m not alone with the sidewall rotation issue on Hokas. I’ve never heard it mentioned before.
I also think the SL2 will be outstanding. I’m curious to see how much overlap it will have with the Mach 6 for speed work… but there are a few oust non-plated workout shoes on the horizon.
Thank you for watching. 🤙🏻
Im so with you on fit. I love the Tecton x. its like one of, if not the best shoe ive ever run in. And, i dont think the Tecton X2 is bad, far from it, yet the fit is different enough, for me to stop every few miles, having to retie it, because the fit is so inconsistent.
Ya… Hoka’s trail shoes are even MORE finicky about fit. I’m very intrigued by the tech in the Tecton and was considering trying the x3 this year… but there is absolutely no way my foot would work in the upper. I’ll still try it on to see… but not expecting much. Also I don’t have the terrain here in Taiwan for it at all either…
I think it's the prominent sidewalls in Hoka shoes that are the main issue for me. I tend to get a rubbing point on my pinky toes in the Mach and Speedgoat. It's not really about toe box width or volume.
I've defintely gotten that in the past, in fact that was the most common issue I had with the sidewalls, mostly in Speedgoats and Rincons. I didn't have that in the Mach 6. Just the sidewall issues I discussed. So that is something, one less sidewall issue. Progress Hoka...Progress!
I've had similar issues (frame digging into medial arch, insole pinching) in Saucony Endorphin Pro 3 which is considered "wide-foot friendly" so I can't even imagine this kind of discomfort in a daily trainer.
Wow… I don’t run in the EP3 but based on trying the ES3 on and my experiences with the ES4 and EP4… I can’t imagine them ever being and issue for any foot. Definitely avoid Hoka at all costs… haha.
I tried these on a demo run at Global Running Day and I really liked the fit on my foot, nicely wrapping on the mid-foot. I guess my footshape is more compatible with this shoe.I have flattish feet and I guess narrower so I didn't feel any issues with sidewalls. I really liked the bounce and energy return I am getting. I am not going to rush to get a pair however. I am working to retire a few pairs of shoes before I consider getting another training shoe.
If you have the foot that fits these (and Hokas) you have a solid shoe here. Alot of fun to run in and a great non-plated workout shoe. Is it the shoe of the year? No, but it is good...if it fits.
The plantar pain you feel in this is what I got in the NovaBlast 3. I ran 400 miles in the nova 2 and loved it the whole way but the 3 was painful all the way up to its current 75 miles, no matter how it was laced or worn. My Hoka’d was the Mach 4 where it was fast soft and bouncy up to 140 miles and then the foam died and was flat out of nowhere.
Ya… all the foam sidewalks in the NB3 from the 2 were a massive change. The NB3 never bothered my foot, I just hated the shoe.
Hoka foam dying quickly is CLASSIC Hoka’d…. The most common kind. I didn’t run in the Mach 4…. But I ran in the 3. Same thing happens to me in the Mach 3, Rincon 1/2 and Clifton 5/6
That's interesting, I've definitely been Hoka'd once with a Clifton 7. Something just gave in the midsole and it started hurting me constantly, I ended up throwing the pair out. I have a pair of Speedgoats and Challengers that I've used as daily shoes for over a year and they are totally fine.
That’s the QC Hoka’d issue. I had a few Hokas, years ago, that just had some random failure in them that caused the shoe to be unusable suddenly. It seems to be a recurring thing for the brand. Even all these years later.
I've also had fit issues with Hokas. The Bondi 7 and the Mach 6 put pressure on different parts of my foot.
It’s so frustrating that Hokas always have some type of for issue… epically this shoe. It’s very good otherwise.
I was Hoka'd as well with the Clifton 9. I have a pretty normal foot, but after being Hoka'd by the Mach X, I got the wide version of the Clifton 9. The low volume toe box that seem to be prevalent in all Hokas now was just too compressive on my foot even though the width was ok. The knit upper didn't help matters either (for me). I have to rely on other brands now.
Odd. I didn’t try the Clifton 9 on but ran a lot on the Clifton 4,5,6… I remember the uppers fit like tents on those. The pressure on the front of the foot with low volume uppers is really not great for run feel.
If a shoe is too easy to run fast in, I don't find that to be a criticism. I've got about 80 miles in my Mach 6. Fit was a bit tight at first, but I used a lacing technique to fix that. So, for me the Mach 6 has been a very good shoe so far.
For an easy day shoe it is for me. I have plenty of fast shoes to run in. Having a shoe that encourages easy (slow) running, that is engaging and well considered, is much more rare.
I did really like the Mach 6 for workouts, with easy warmups and cooldowns, as it handle that range well. It was never a shoe I’d grab for a dedicated easy run… beyond my testing I did for my reviews.
@@SagasuRunning I see your point if you were expecting this to be an easy day shoe. But since the Mach 6 does also encourage me to run fast, then I just consider this to be a shoe for my fast workouts. Maybe Hoka isn't marketing this shoe properly?
It’s more that I can’t consider it a daily trainer as it just doesn’t have the versatility needed for that.
I owned 2 pairs of the Mach4, loved the shoe, outsole outlasted the midsole in both cases. But I have found I'm still not ready for 5mm drops. Even 6mm I notice if I run in 6mms too often. 8mm is my perfect sweet spot. I don't suspect I will ever run in a 5mm shoe again, atleast for road training. As for the fit, I think it just comes down to you aren't a HOKA guy. I never experienced fit issues in any of the HOKA shoes I owned (Rincon V1, Bondi V6, 2 pairs of Mach4, Carbon X1). Similar to how you find the Boston 12 is a great fit. I had to give them away...and ultimately got a pair of Endorphin Pro 3's from the same guy as a trade for the Bostons! And where normally the Endo Speeds give me heel issues, the Pro (which I suspect is the less rigid/structured heel counter/cup) has worked amazing for me.
That tells you something about Hoka foam if when rubberized EVA outsoles outlasts it.
@@SagasuRunning The dual layer mach4 was the first time I had a HOKA midsole last beyond 500km. Rincon V1 I pushed to 250km. Their pure EVA was just terrible for going flat way too early, especially on the medial side.
I’d barely get 200k on Rincons and maybe 300k in Cliftons back in 2019… they were awful for durability.
Interesting to see a negative review on this shoe - reviews elsewhere have been very positive.
I've put 155.2 km into it, and set my 5k PB in it. I found it pretty tight in the store, and ended up going a half size up rather than going into the wide. They're still tight on me, but not painfully so, with no hot-spots or blisters. So far, the foam hasn't died on me, and it's still extremely light and bouncy underfoot. Fingers crossed, hoping I don't get Hoka'd!
Other than my fit issues and being Hoka’d…. I’m fairly positive on this shoe. If you have a Hoka shaped foot and can get a comfortable fit and the sidewalks don’t bother you…. It’s a great option as a non-plated workout shoe. That type of shoe is very rare. I will be covering some better options to replace this shoe in the coming months. Stay tuned.
This is the exact same problem I had with a pair of Hoka Mach Supersonic a few years ago. I gave them to a friend after nearly 100 k and he loved them😅
I remember the Supersonics having some durability issues as well. That was a while ago!
Hoka'd experiences: Mach 4 foam died after 100 miles/160km. That was rough because I loved the ride at first. Challenger 6 was waaayyyyyyy too firm and uncomfortable for the road. But my worst ever experience being "Hoka'd" was the Asics Nova Blast 2. That shoe made my ankle bleed through my sock after a 7 mile run.
Sounds like classic Hoka’d experience.
Though we need another name for the Asics one…. Those are rare. “Asics’d” doesn’t quite have the same ring.
My experience coming from the Mach 5: Fit is too narow, wide is similar to Mach 5 regular and fits great for me. There was a break in time, at 1st it felt like a brick, very stiff. After 50-60k it's great. I like it more than the Mach 5. Compared to Mach 5 the foam doesn't bottom out at the end of my run. I agree that the shoe is better when running faster, but didn't have a problem at relaxed pace. I think it's pretty versatile. It's bouncier than Novablast 4, but less bouncier/slower than Saucony Speed 3. But the lower drop is great for my problematic knee.
I will agree that it's very annoying that Hola ich changing the fit all the time.
Ya… the Hoka fit is so problematic .4)343 is no reason someone should have to go from a standard width to a wide width, in one generation, to get the same fit. Inexcusable.
That's disappointing to hear that this particular model did not work out for you... I found a similar sizing issue with New Balance shoes which made me switch to Hoka for that very point. A good example would be the difference between the Rebel v3 and Rebel v4, the v3 was too narrow even in wide and the v4 was too wide in the wide version (fit like a 4E) lol. I'm also disappointed that NB continues to discontinue some of their top models every few years that are best sellers such as the zante and the beacon... really wish they could've just upgraded the foams in them. Nonetheless this was a very good review of the Mach 6, just subscribed!
Besides Hoka the only other brand I’ve ever had real fit issues with is New Balance.This goes back to 2015 or so as well. The 2024 NB fits are absolutely atrocious. Just comically awful.
It was unfortunate with the Mach 6. It was great until it wasn’t… but the it’s the story with Hokas for me for a long time.
Thank you for subscribing. Hopefully I’ll cover some things you are interested in.
i was about to get the mach 6 in wide till i saw your review - thanks! you've given the invincible run 3 much praise; width-wise how did that fit you? it was too narrow for me
Nikes for me well. The Invincible 3 for me very well. TTS, no heel left and a great fit over all. Was my favorite part of the shoe actually.
My only 2 Hokas are the Bondi 8 - which I dont like (I thoughts super mushy soft, for standing all day, but its a firm brick) and the Hoka Mach X - which is by no means bad at all, but it feels just like a super generic shoe... thats not a bad thing, its just too boring for me.
Since that I hestitate a lot to get deeper into Hoka. So yooour thoughts and opinions is my only source x)
I agree. There are so many other shoes out there that one doesn’t NEED to dig into Hoka and troubleshoot endlessly to get them to work. Ten years ago was a different story. Now… so many options.
I will keep an eye on the brand and their tech though. They seem to be trying many interesting things.
I have similar but different issues with the Hoka fit. Only my left foot in any Hoka i have tried, the shoe feels too narrow in the exterior midfoot area. From your description this is likely caused by the sidewall and low volume. I feel it immediately upon slipping on the shoe, and there are just too many good shoes out there to put up with the poor Hoka fit. (Wide does not help.)
Agree. I don’t know why Hoka’s midsole sidewalls are so aggressive. Almost ever other brand does the same thing. Only Hoka’s cause problems though. I’m glad I’m not alone here.
if you think Hoka is crazy you should check out some Muzinos. or however it's called. they tend to be on the firmer side of cushion, more like On, but they've got all these layers to them. Some of them have 3 different layers of foam. I don't mind Hoka, imo/e they actually have higher quality, at least in terms of materials, than some other stuff. but when it comes down to it, I gravitate more to NB for that less rockered geometry and more flexibility, softer cushion for a lightweight like myself, wide fit and lower drops. I do really enjoy the more plush uppers, collars, tongues on the hokas though. What kinda funny is hoka makes a version of the bondi for nurses but all the nurses just use regular versions. I see the hokas all the time but it's never the one made for healthcare workers.
Mizuno is definitely out there. I'm following them now, if something interesting to talk about pops up or comes out I'll try to get it.
I actually don't hate Hoka...they just don't work for my foot. It's something I've tried to make work over the years, and likely will try again, but they never do.
@@SagasuRunning Not that it means anything really, but I found the Gaviota most comfortable. It's kinda like a wider kayano with less drop. not many so called stability i would even try but some of them are okay. I wear out shoes on my lateral side so most stability shoes just mean sprained ankles in my world.
I paid alot of money for my Hoka Cielo X1 and im feeling some discomfort in my inner ankle area after my runs with it-50km so far. I really wanna make it work but i'm afraid of aggravating a potential injury. My speed 4 and superblast dont cause this I'm assuming its because of stability attributes.
Unsure what to do :(
That could be a mix of the inherent instability of the Cielo x1 and the ankle collar is high. I noticed that trying the shoe on. I’d be careful with it. Use it for shorter runs to see if the problems persist or your body adapts.
The other two shoes you mentioned are both much more stable than the Cielo x1.
I bought the very first Bondi, Mafate and Stinson when they didn't even have a version number and run a lot in them, but that was a long time ago. Since then I bought a few other models ... Bondi 2 and 3 ... Clifton 1 and 2 ... Challenger 1 and 2 and all of them gave me problems ... the Bondi 2 upper didn't even last for 50 k and ripped. Never again will I buy a Hoka shoe.
But, I must admit, the Mafate which is now maybe 12 years old seems indestructible, its still my cold weather "walking the dog in the forest" shoe.
The first generation or two of Hokas were overbuilt and bulky. Not surprised one is still around for you. A lot has changed since then. The period between 2014-2018 was especially rough for the brand with QC.
I felt that pinching too in a wide. Bummed cause the shoe felt nice otherwise
Ya, it was nice otherwise, at least for a bit. Hoka’s fit is just so inconsistent…
Thank you! Very interesting from your point of feet :) For my feet the Mach 6 is true to size, it fits like a glove and I love to run in it. How different feet can be :)
You have a Hoka shaped foot. I've tried so many Hokas over the years and even if they are ok for a while (like this one) I ultimately get Hoka'd every single time...sadly. Yes, running shoes are crazy how personal they are to our feet. It's always fascinating to me how experiences differ so.
@@SagasuRunning Definitely, it fascinates me, too. Thank you again for your time and content :)
Thank you again for watching! 🤙🏻
Fuck.... I hope they keep the mach 5 in rotation
I doubt they well. Once the sales are done. It will be gone from Hoka.
I was a huuge fan of the Mach 5 but in the end like the Mach 6 more. The foam is just better and the shoe is more durable due to the proper outsole.
@Maochan81 the outsole on the Mach 6 is definitely great…. Maybe the best Hoka outsole to date for the brand. Full rubber coverage but that Hoka feel is still intact.
I have two pairs of Puma (Magnify and Eternity nitro) and they both curve up at the lateral edge of the forefoot which causes a big toe/knuckle blister anything over 10km. Sounds kind of similar weirdness. Why would anyone want that in the forefoot of a shoe?
The only Puma shoe I have experience with is the Velocity Nitro 3, which has given me no foot issues at all in 100miles. People have said the toebox of Pumas are narrow, but I’m not finding that the case at all.
Sooo what are the much better options that arrived or are arriving this month or last month?
adidas SL2 is the main one. Much better performance trainer all around. The ASICS Hyper Speed 4 is the other…. Though I’m having an issue finding a pair at the moment.
@@SagasuRunning Thank you. I just got done looking into the SL2 & I’m going to look into the other ones. I run 5Ks on the regular. I participate in 5K races when I can but a lot of them are unfortunately casual. Mainly I’d like to have a lightweight shoe, that is more responsive than cushiony, and that helps with speed (getting my times down).
Which shoe(s) would you recommend me to look into?
Plated shoes are optional too. $140-$180 is almost same price range to me. I spend avg $200+ on jordans so 😅😅
For 5k racing…. You want the Adidas Takumi Sen 10. It fits your list of requirements nearly perfectly. Combine that with a SL2 for training and you have an excellent little training/racing pair.
@@SagasuRunning thank you for the recs! Last question lol. How would you compare those to the Saucony Endorphin Speed 4? Those are really catching my eye.
The ES4 is a strong tempo trainer…. It it’s not as fast as the TS10 and its plated so I’ll never recommend it as a daily trainer. The SL2/TS10 combo is much more dedicated to 5k racing.
I've been vaxxed to prevent getting hoka'd.
Lucky you. Getting Hoka’d is rough.
Yes! This was the issue I had - LOVED the bouncy-ness of this shoe but they hurt the inside of my arches so bad. Are there HOKA models that dont cause this that are good for flat feet (my flat feet don't give me any issues so doesn't need to be corrected)?
To your question… I have no idea. Every. Single. Hoka…. Has a different fit. You would literally need to go to a Hoka store and try them all on. I will say that the sidewalls in the Mach 6 are present in every Hoka as well and can often cause similar (or new) issues.
i had a Hoka Rincon 2, it was bad
I ran in the Rincon 1/2. The sidewalls in that shoe were killers for the toe. The painful memories!
watching this video as I’m waiting for the shoe 💀
Hopefully you have a Hoka shaped foot. If you do these are great. I enjoyed them until the fit issues got me.
@@SagasuRunning ye I’m hoping I don’t get the same problem bcuz I can’t return it.
@lil-hawk3 🤞🏻