Alex, I don't think it's your problem if your video is outdated because they patched the game after your video. The game should've come out in a good state, and your video would be a cautionary reminder to people not to buy games before watching a proper third-party analysis of the product. If a publisher suffers poor sales in the future because of an outdated video, that's on them for releasing it in a poor state.
Yeah gotta agree, I feel like waiting for the “inevitable” early patches is kind of enabling their behavior rather than pushing back against it. I would imagine giving more slack to an indie dev or something is prudent but not as much so to the large publishers who clearly have the resources to ensure a good product at launch
You're 100% not wrong, but there were other reasons for not delivering a day one review too. Alex is working on another video, and only got access to the game during the weekend when he wasn't at work. I think those are valid reasons for not reviewing it yet.
Capturing the brutal honest review of a game on release has value for historical context also. Holding companies accountable to releasing products in a poor state is part of the value I see as a consumer, in teams like DF.
Sort of. But it’s less relevant If patches are already lined up to fix the problems within days. This is doubly true if it’s pre-release and the day one patch makes many of their problems obsolete for actual players. Fine line, and depends on what is coming. Hard to judge
Bro, please do one for every instance John butchers the word ‘basically’ by mispronouncing it as “basely”. I swear he said it 6 or 7 times the last Direct he was on. It’s like an ice pick in my ear
Thank you, Oliver, for actually bringing up the real AIB / Street price of GPUs instead of the MSRPs. People need to stop falling for Nvidia's MSRP numbers, because the vast majority of units sold are AIB models way above that.
I only managed to get an MSRP 5080 by stalking Canada Computers listings and getting lucky with a Zotac model suddenly appearing. The entirety of Canada computers, the largest PC part chain in Canada, at the point I bought the card (last Friday at 5pm) only ever had 9 5080 models in total and 0 5090 models for the whole nation scattered across different stores trickled out. There were only 4 MSRP models out of the 9 5080 models Not even a paper launch, just vapour
@@Merp9 I was so close to buying the Zotac 5080 too, but was just beat by 5 minutes at the Waterloo location lol. It was like $50 over MSRP right, almost nothing... but luckily I was able to get a similar priced PNY backorder from best buy so fingers crossed that comes in a couple of weeks.
@nonameddog I'm at the North York location, was $1499CAD. Especially with the Lunar New Year coming up and affecting factory output, people aren't going to be getting MSRP cards for a long time, if ever Not even factoring the whole trade ware debacle...
@@dark1x We love you John! Take your time to recover! I appreciate keeping us up to date! Thank you for all the awesome content you provide for us! You and DF made my days better! Respect!
Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people hate his points, but I'm the same way as he is. If some product comes out that's bad, I just react by making no plans to buy it. I don't understand the emotional reactions...
Agreed. If you look at 50 series videos on other channels some people in the comments are calling out Rich/DF for being shills, liars, etc. since he didn't do a angry "takedown" style video. These people just love drama.
"My life isn't defined on how powerful an Nvidia GPU is" is absolutely bang on. I'm really disappointed but I'm not spitting feathers like some people I've seen.
@@deschain1910Noones getting emotional. We're disappointed. If you aren't disappointed by yet another poor release or overpriced GPU then you aren't a fan of gaming.
@@AJ-xv7oh Either you're delusional, or you don't understand what emotional means. Disappointment is emotion. Anger is emotion. I've seen a lot of both out there.
Oliver is a realist is all. Obviously sick and tired of bad PC ports like Alex. Richard needs to Pander to Sony though which is why he never outright knocks them or they upset IGN a bit too much who answers to Ziff Davis. It’s all a scam really where the consumer is the patsy stuck inbetween corporate giants bs. It is laughable really just use Gamepass for free and play them at their own game.
Amazing Day One Nvidia drivers ;) I hope situations like these will teach people to stop fanboying or trivialising over brands and studios…I can see a 50/50 fault here between Nixxes testing methodology and Nvidia’s driver team…
@@Nat-yf6ff the game has its slack of issues…especially memory leaks in the VRAM department. But from what I am seeing with my own computers Nvidia was not prepared either…I have less issues on my 7900XTX than on my 3080Ti with RT on. Everyone screws up, and people need to ask more from the companies they give their money to. This is a prima example. With Spider-Man Remastered we had a driver crash for a very long time on my 3080Ti and it was very random, I started thinking something else’s in my system was the problem…10 month after the game release Nixxes fixed it and Nvidia released a complimentary driver… These companies need to sort their shit out and people need to stop supporting fake myths about wonderful ports and wonderful Nvidia software…because that’s what DF is going to say in their delayed review in the conclusions…by omitting an analysis of the current state of the game…
Thank you for sharing your reasonable stance on the NVIDIA “situation”. Yes, we are disappointed, and we may even be angry, but Rich put it so well: don’t buy it. If you don’t like the product, simply don’t buy it!! That is the best way you can advocate for better value. NVIDIA hasn’t downgraded the existing products. The new ones are simply bad value. That’s no reason whatsoever to be outraged; it’s reason to tune out, that’s it. And Oliver’s take on how the entire silicon industry is suffering was brilliant: people seem to forget that silicon is currently absurdly expensive and - notwithstanding the questionable marketing and pricing practices - NVIDIA is actually trying to do something about it, however they can.
i like the idea of a DF quick look, maybe even just firing up the game and capturing your reactions and then edit together a summary of the first 30 minutes or something.. no graphs, no rigorous settings testing, just the first impressions the detailed review can come later after a patch or two
That's what they did in this podcast. A quick look highlighting the issues. All they need to do is clip it out of this and upload it as its own video so people who don't watch these get the information.
I have always hoped that DF would go back to games that had known issues at launch half a year or a year later to check if those games have been fixed. I might be in the minority, but I usually wait to see if a game has any issues when deciding to buy the game and whether it would be best to buy it on the PS5 or the PC. And sometimes if the game has issues at launch that are majorly reported by almost everyone, there are few or no channels that go back to these troubled games 6 or 12 months later to confirm if the issues had been fixed. I feel that if DF wants their videos to be more helpful to their viewers for a long period of time, this would be one way that can be really useful. It does not need to be a long video, just short videos that confirms whether a game has been fixed or are still broken so it is easier for the viewers to decide which platform would be a better choice to buy a game from.
Good on Oliver for calling out what is clearly anti consumer behavior from Nvidia with the pricing, driven by an effective monopoly in the product segment.
How is it a monopoly when 7900XTX exists while 4080/4090/5080/5090 basically don't, it competes favorably with 4080/5080, and it will probably still be AMD's fastest card even after 9070 launches? If lack of consumer awareness/interest of a competing product is the problem then isn't that what DF should be addressing rather than a product that exists only on paper somehow being a monopoly?
@@AFistfulOf4K If you want the top end of gaming graphics right now, high framrate path tracing, Nvidia is the only company that can accomodate that. That's what I meant by monopoly. Personally I think the 7900XTX is a great card, and that path tracing is way overrated for the processing overhead, but the truth is the 7900XTX just doesn't compete in that segment.
@@AFistfulOf4Kit’s an oligopoly, people misuse the word monopoly all the time. They all have options but won’t buy it because they really want the features Nvidia does “best” and somehow that’s Nvidia’s fault. It’s like getting mad at a car company for making the fastest car and claiming it’s not fair because the other companies haven’t caught up
I'm getting 100% repro crashes on Spider Man 2 at max settings on a 4090 with a 13900K... With the only solution being to disable RT features until I get past this crash, enable RT again and remove it once it re-appears. RT reflections is a huge improvement in that game so that makes it hard to skip... but I've had like more than 30 crashes in 8 hours of play time I'm also seeing inconsistent frame time as reported in your video. They already shipped a small patch yesterday which solved some crash cases but it's not fully fixed at all. It's a shame, we CANNOT get a new big game to ship in acceptable basic conditions right now even with super powerful 24GB GPUs. And they must know this was happening before shipping the game, in that case please devs: delay the game!
These are the reasons I will not be returning to high end PC gaming anytime soon. It’s just not worth the hassle anymore as there are just too many issues within the PC space right now. I’m very happy with the PS5 Pro for the next few years.
I have the same configuration and I get pretty regular crashes. Oddly I seem to get them more frequently during cutscenes than any kind of gameplay, but I've only played for about 3 hours before giving up so it's hard to establish a pattern. It's really frustrating because I expect poor performance from Ubisoft and EA published games (regardless of the developer), and Unreal 5 are obviously a mixed bag at release most of the time, but Nixxes has a really good track record so I thought this would be a solid day 1 purchase. Oh well.
4080 here and also brutal full system reboot crashing. Tried all kinds of settings and it will crash after 15-20 mins. I find this so strange because the miles morales pc port worked just fine. Is the tech in this game really that much different?
I was able to get the game pretty stable (crashes are many hours apart instead of minutes) by rolling back my driver. The latest driver seems to have been the cause of a ton of crashes for me in other games, too, like FF7 Rebirth.
Spider man 2 is out today, yes? So review the product today. Not what it can be or could be. You aren’t a marketing firm, you are a reviewer. If they didn’t want a review in the performance to be bad, then they shouldn’t have released it as such.
The problem is that even if a lot of problems go unfixed, the state that it is now is useless for the majority of people that will buy this game, yet this day one review will appear in everyone's feed when looking for the state of the gsme
Just an FYI in regards to the PS5 Pro-console: Proconsul is an extinct genus of primates that existed from 21 to 17 million years ago during the Miocene epoch.
Not surprised the 3rd game has issues too when the previous spider-man games on Pc still have bad texture loading issues on buildings and crashing issues that can corrupt saves
As a reviewer, you should be reviewing the game it launched in. Not what it can be protecting the devs but protecting consumers from buying a bad product.
Remember that this is not a game review channel, this is a game rendering/tech review channel. And they've done a great job alerting us about games/products in bad states.
That isn't useful longterm though and it's not practical to redo breakdowns with every major patch. The idea of a quicklook that Richard mentioned to highlight issues with problematic games then maybe a more indepth video later seems reasonable
Still. There were a lot of other non-fan favourite games/devs DF covered regardless of patches coming or not in particular to influence the Devs. And if two weeks from now patches won't come, what then? What about the people who look to DF reporting on issues to make an informed purchase. I think not covering such a big game even to make an addendum later is a miss. Not suggesting they are protecting Nixxes and Insomniac from having their first L but this is not a W for DF as well. Maybe they can do a short "before you buy" vid just signaling the problems in the future.
Do you see Microsoft going the way of cell phone companies? Require Game Pass to use whatever the next hardware is. Further, subsidize the price of the box with long term mandatory game pass memberships. Similar to your iphone. You get it for $300-$500 when it really costs $2000. But they make their money back in your membership fees. Then they can iterate the "box" every two years to get a bump in revenue without having to catastrophically change the tech inside. My experience with XSX and windows has been enough for me to not want to use MS hardware or software at all in the future. I could see them pulling this scenario because their MS execs have always been out of touch with the gaming world given it's relatively low profitability against their main product (govt infrastructure). I hope they don't. I could see that leading to Xbox being done. And despite my bad experiences, I wouldn't want them to leave the market. This is what concerns me. Running billionaires companies teaches that they often focus TOO much on short term profitability (especially the younger ones) Anyway, sorry for the word wall. Hopefully there's something in this that is interesting and not completely unfounded. Thanks!
Microsoft (and Sony) will eventually go the way of Netflix. A monthly tiered streamjng subscription service which will give you access to the Gamepass library and a streaming quality matched to the tier you have subscribed to (1080p/2160@60/2160@120/etc).
It's nice and dandy that Phil says he wants his hardware to win on hardware, but fundamentally you need to convince people why buying a console that has both PS and Xbox games isn't more compelling.
Its rather amusing, Phil has the ambition and goal posts set for that vision, but no road map how to get there which is clearly evident otherwise we'd be seeing him say why to pick an Xbox over a Playstation but we don't because he has no good reason to suggest doing so.
If their next console has multiple storefronts then yes essentially you’ll be able to play PS games on your Xbox as well. We can’t really make any assumptions until we see what the next console is
@@JDwall9192 I've only ever seen Xbox fan people like Destin making up dream scenarios in their heads like this for their next console or theoretical handheld but I just can't see it ever becoming a reality.
$20 a month for every single Xbox produced title goes along way especially when their current output is 5 games in 5 months. Compare that to current and even future Sony output they have so very few games coming out and you have to pay full price for them.
Why do y'all keep acting like Alex didn't specifically say he hasn't even had time to play Spiderman 2 for a review, and that he's currently working on another video? Calling people "bought" for not working during their break is ridiculous.
Having quicker video during the first week of a games release can immediately tell me whether the full price tag is worth it to me. Those longer in-depth videos feel a little more long-term, so maybe it's not worth the work if it'll be fixed after a few weeks?
Xbox going multiplatform isn't an issue for me. It's cool that PS players can get the opportunity to play Forza, maybe Halo Master Chief in the future…those are the kinds of games that don't exist in Sony's catalog. That will make money for Microsoft/Xbox, leading to more games in the future and more entries for Game Pass. I'll stay with my XSX (I already sold my PS5). I just hope they won't drop the hardware in the future; I like their products. And they could make an Xbox controller for PS5, who knows?
The competition is Nintendo + PC, Xbox has been absent for more than 10 years we have more great games that we can play in our total free time. We'll be fine.
We get 100$ base price, 800$ ps6 at launch with no stand or drive, a digital only system, no weaker configuration ala Series S, an uptick for PS+ subscription price, and even less first party exclusives
@@-PVL93- it's crazy, consoles used to be seen as a an affordable way into gaming and pc for the luxury of high frame rates and resolutions but now you may as well get a pc. They're not that much more expensive, cheaper even when you consider how cheap games on steam can be and free multiplayer. Sony and Microsoft releasing their games on pc too. I'm glad consoles are pushing for these new standards but the amount of anti consumerism they're pushing is just not worth it anymore imo. At least Nintendo, while not perfect, is still doing their own thing.
The good thing about Forza horizon five being ported to PlayStation is that it will probably reset the clock on the license to music and cars in the game that might ultimately mean the game is available in all stores for much longer than it might have otherwise been. Forza horizon four have recently been delisted. I would imagine this being released on PlayStation five also opens the door for it appearing on switch 2 when that arrives the specs at the very least look like it is more powerful than the Xbox One on which the title also launched as a cross gen release
I don't see the game coming to Nintendo Switch 2 due to a lack of pressure sensitive triggers. On the teaser trailer, the ZL and ZR buttons look identical to the previous console, which weren't Pressure Sensitive. I did try to play Forza Horizon 5 on Cloud Gaming with a Switch Pro Controller. It's hardly playable when ZL and ZR always output 100% pressure and 0% pressure instantaneously with no in-betweens, making certain cars a pain to drive without Traction Control, Launch Control or Throttle Control.
@@X2011racer You can still download any digital Forza and all the DLC you already own, you just can't buy it now if you missed out before it got de-listed. You do realise that right? Everybody acts like the game can't be played anymore once it gets delisted but it can be, the same way you can still download all your 360 games even though the entire store is shut for new sales, nobody has lost a single thing they already own except that free Silent Hill demo thing that came out on PS4.
The absolutely correct answer about reviewing shit ports is that the review should come out as soon as possible so that you can call attention to these glaring issues and help people not waste time and effort on voodoo fixes that don't do shit. These companies need to be held accountable for putting out garbage and giving them benefit of the doubt by withholding the video for weeks/months to see if they fix it, only benefits the company since the issues aren't being highlighted. Hell, you can make a second video for all these games after 2,3 months to see if there was any progress.
I liked Alan's question. Xbox could be the continuation of what Sega did with Dreamcast. It's like asking, what if Sega had kept making hardware but still brought their key IP to other systems?
The difference is that Microsoft are setting up a future where you can get their box and get some games, or a Playstation and get all games It's genuinely hard to see how Xbox hardware keeps selling at that point once mainstream folks catch on. MS say they'll compete with better hardware, but I just don't see how that will outweigh investing in a way bigger and more comprehensive ecosystem for software.
@SimonM7TV you are drinking Sony Kool aid. You can't get all xbox games on ps5, they don't come to ps5 until years later in some cases like Forza 5 or Fable.
Why add hardware RT Shadows to Spider-Man 2 when they are only static, pretty sure it was the same with Miles Morales but it screams last min edition / Lazy implementation. When the baked in shadows look more reactive and fitting than a RT solution that can cost you like 30% of your performance what's the point.
I know Nvidia has really dropped the ball on optimized drivers for the past couple of games. You'd think Rebirth and Spider-man 2 would have had some. Or least one of them but nothing.
In Nz 5080s are going for between $2700-3100 (incl tax) which works out around $1300-1500 USD (excl tax). This is fucking insane for what is effectively a 70 class card.
But but it can run CyBeRpUnK with PaTh TrAcInG at 15 FPS for 1500$ Y u don't see the value here? It's 100$ / fps. 🤣 This is what us, filthy gamers deserve by Nvidia's vision about gaming and people are still waiting many hours in queues to get hand fed with 💩
Same bullshit in most non-US countries. I'm sure some is tax and import costs, but GPU prices are out of control. Thing we gotta ask ourselves though, is are games with demanding/photorealistic graphics more fun than games with simpler graphics and more interactivity or creative art styles? I don't think so, but I guess fancy graphics sell games.
If you stick with only reflections and keep all other rt features off it runs at 140 on m 4080 with a 7800x3d and DLSS on Quality with FG at 4k. All the new nvidia stuff seems to be added with a hot needle. Not yet ready.
@Digital Foundry As per Alex's request, a good way to think about doing a video when the game is broken at launch, but will most likely be patched shortly would be to do a quick look video "Early Impressions" and then wait for a bit to do the full thurough video. I'd rather just know the game is broken and get a quick overview at launch so I can avoid the game, and then have a longer in depth video once the game is deemed good enough for purchase. I like the long in depth PC coverage videos, but at launch mostly what I want to know is if the port is broken.
Forza used to allow MSAA and FXAA at the same time, but after they added TAA, this is no longer possible. It wast the best combo covering vegetation as well.
can we have a video comparing AF/MF, smooth motion and lossless scaling's new algorithm for an ultimate driver level scaling/ frame gen analysis? that would be great.
When its sold out, and hard to get, people want it more. Oooo it must be a great product, its always out of stock. But you can still get a pre-built with those cards I am sure.
Is ML potentially heading towards an equivalent fundamental architectural shift like we saw with unified shaders? Dumping raster basics and significantly increasing ML across the GPU?
I get confused hearing MS can't do a series s portable affordably at this time, but then people say Switch 2 will be at the performance of Series S. How can Nintendo make an affordable handheld that's better than a steam deck and close to Series S when docked? Make it make sense.
@@chrisdprattDF themselves have alluded to and teased the theoretical Switch 2 performance using ‘dlss’ even matching a PS5.. these guys absolutely fall victim to click bait and overhyping just like every other TH-cam channel trying to make a buck just have to be smart enough to decipher the noise
I'd say make a very quick video on the current status of the game so people know to wait, but not too much effort so IF they fix it, reminder its never guaranteed, a longer video could come out to cover the current state. Also acknowledge the poor launch performance at the beginning even if it does get better. Many people buy games extremely close to launch and even a 1-2 minute PSA is valueable.
I think so many are assuming AMD is going to fumble the RDNA 4 launch for a couple of reasons. First, they kinda already *have* fumbled RDNA4, at least in terms of stock management and messaging. Second -- and more to the point -- they have a long-standing pattern of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, at least in the GPU space. They fumbled the RDNA 3 launch. And the RDNA 2 launch before that. And the RDNA launch before THAT. In fact, with a few specific exceptions (RX6600 once it hit $200), I'd argue that AMD hasn't released a compelling GPU since Polaris in 2016(!), which is kind of insane. In short, Nvidia -$50 just ain't cutting it, and it's WELL PAST time AMD figured this out.
Rich, we're assuming that AMD is going to fumble it because (say it with me everyone) "AMD never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity." Especially in GPUs.
Spider Man 2 looks and runs way better on my PS5 Pro compared to my 4070 PC. If I remember correctly DF tech review says the PS5 Pro runs at 1440p in performance mode on the Pro and fidelity mode is nearly native 2160p on the Pro.
I found ray reconstruction to be broken on this port. I also have a 4070. Have had a decent number of crashed and some random inexplicable slowdowns where my gpu is barely utilized and fps drops to single digits. Outside of those admittedly big issues I get around 80-100 fps with Ray reconstruction off, dlss quality, and frame gen on
I would just like to point out that the only physical store in Canada that carries 5090s (Best buy is hit or miss) Canada Computers announced even before "release" that they would be getting zero 5090s across the entire country. That has pushed demand and market price (Which is different from retail price) up more then anything which just lends more to the fact its a paper launch
With regards to the latency issue with multi frame gen the only way around that is to use time dilation to give the gpu more time to render frames. Since the moving twin in the twin paradox experiences less time compared to the stationary twin the obvious solution is a gamer chair that vibrates the player at 50%+ the speed of light so that the gpu experiences more time relative to the gamer and is able to out put more frames or higher quality per frame during that time. Secret labs/Corsair/other gaming chair companies get on this PLZ!!!
There's always going to be people that try to defend horribly overpriced GPUs with mental gymnastics because THEY want one. I think everyone reading this WOULD want a 5080, it's not a "bad" GPU, but that's not the conversation. The problem is it's a rebadged 5070 or at the very least 5070ti to pretend they aren't raising prices yet again. They claim it's a 5080 but all it is is a single digit uplift from the 4080 with similar power usage increases. It's exactly what you would expect from a 4080 super super. But even worse the MSRP is a lie and they've left it to the AIBs to crank the prices even higher. Constant raising prices is one thing that's frustrating enough, but where people have a valid reason to actually get _offended_ is from being LIED TO. We're told it's a 5080, which it isn't. We're told it's faster than a 4090 because of MFG, which it isn't. We're told it's $999, which it isn't. We're told efficiency got better when it reality it got _worse._ Even the argument of "hey at least it's better than the 4080 super for the same money!" falls apart the second you realize almost NO cards were ever sold at MSRP. Cards aren't just getting scalped for far above MSRP, but their *_MSRPs_* themselves are starting at hundreds over $999. These cards will not drop to that price when the scalpers move on and supply gets better.
Would have gotten a PS5 Pro, but I got the opportunity to get the Slim 30th Anniversary, but I’m loving it, the Nostalgic look is beautiful 🤩, and so far looks great on the LG OLED with VRR.
@@imp_ct that’s great, glad PC now gets allot of these first party PS5 games. Looking forward to trying out Horizon FW on PS5 after 100% Astrobot and finishing ratchet and clank.
I almost sold my 4070ti for 850 usd but then Nvidia fumbled the 50 series launch. Now that dlss 4 is out for everyone my fomo is gone and will happily wait another generation while my current card only increased in value
Forza Horizon 5 has some nasty bugs in The Eliminator that PlayGround Games marked as won't fix. The worst one being displaying the map when you win a head to head that prevents you from upgrading and you are stuck in your current car unable to get in a new head to head until the end of the session. I'm wondering if Panic Button will "port" these bugs to the PlayStation.
Sounds like a cheat if used correctly. Say you have the Hoonigan RS200, and you trigger the glitch while driving it. Now, no one can challenge you until the final showdown.
Its like bad reviews help give feedback to devs so they can make sth better the next time. Alex keeps saying stuff this past year that just make me dislike him more and more....
They don’t technically review anything here. They do a technical analysis of available versions of games highlighting the strengths or weaknesses of the ports. They don’t analyze narrative/story or gameplay aspects in a subjective way.
I think that the issue is in that most people are angry at nvidia giving them not the improvements from previous generations for the same price but not understanding the the manufactureing cost is up and they want to make the same margins because they are a corporation, which is not working for a consumer like any Corp is not, but bottom line is people are angry because there is no competition to drive the price market and innovation!!
Based on their answers to Microsoft's business plans the last few years I do wonder how the DF crew would react to Sega's waning Dreamcast days. "We think it's great Sega is bringing their games to other platforms!" "They're not gonna stop making hardware, with the rising cost of development, these moves just make sense!" Just curious😂
I'm not sure this is the right place to approach you guys. But, do you all have a desire for creators like you to help you cover sports games? I apologize if asking about sports games is insulting. some of us computer scientists are also athletes who like these games and want to discuss how to make them better. And I think your platform would be a great place to spark change in a gaming genre that employs various horrible game design philosophies to prioritize profit over quality of play.
@@samgoff5289what I'm suggesting is making content to change that reality. They get away with that because no one on the consumer side holds them accountable. And if you hate sports games the way I assume most people watching this channel might, I can empathize with your view. But those of us who've played these sports at a high level in real life... ... and who understand how to get more out of the chess match in the games get WAY more out of the games than the (they just changed the graphics) complaint most casuals players (and haters) make.
Very small design philosophy changes could make these games AMAZING without having to do MUCH more than they are doing now. That's why I think the convo could be valuable. I get why that would be a long shot with THIS audience, but very few people are as thorough as the people here at DF. 👍
@@samgoff5289and thanks for chiming in. Your response actually validates the reason I think the content wouldn't really work. You mentioned the conversations would be "boring." I believe (maybe wrongly) that the bulk of viewers watching ANYTHING are there for the fun. I'm not. I don't come to digital foundry for "fun." I come here to get smarter and hopefully contribute to the ongoing conversation to improve video games out of this stagnant design mediocrity that these lazy publishers have employed over the last few decades. Very few of the convos i would want to see would be "fun." Hence, you are probably right. This is not a good idea. 😔
@@BryantChamberstvi do agree with you that there should be a dedicated channel that’s big specifically for sports and/or specifically for sports games. i understand the wish to have better games but they can’t be upheld by a million subscriber niche youtube channel meant for generalized video gaming topics including physical technology. i wish they’d change the games more though
I honestly think waiting to do a video on the SM2 port (a couple weeks to a month) would be best, since otherwise you'd just have to do an update video anyways.
Re: how to cover Spider-Man 2 -- I think you should just wait. Spider-Man 2 might end up being a special case -- a rare miss from a port developer known for putting out great products with excellent post-launch support. But you were right in your comments - any video you put out now will be outdated within a week; if you want to give consumers something timely and useful, maybe do a TH-cam Short that just says "game is unfinished, wait for patches". Taking the 'timeliness' requirement away, you could wait to review the product once you feel it's been patched to a state that represents Nixxes' likely intent. BUT, that video would probably warrant a lengthy intro segment that covers the initial launch, the total lack of prerelease marketing, etc, etc. The eventual SM2 PC video could be a useful illustration of "how -NOT- to market and publish a PC port of a AAA first-party release".
The game looks to be doing shader compilation in the background for the first 15-20min of the game making for quite a bit of stuttering on my computer anyway (amd 7700X, 6900XT). I don't remember the game informing me it was going to do shader compilations in the background but perhaps I missed that message 🤔
I like Rich's response to the criticism of his 5080 review. The techtuber space is kind of a joke atm, it's full of ragebait and theatrical nonsense where I have to navigate people's massive egos to see if a product suits my situation. I guess if you're not pounding your chest, yelling and calling everything garbage or making quips non-stop then it means you're shilling. There's a real lack of maturity when it comes to the bigger hardware reviewers and it shows in their work and in the 'communities' they foster.
Not gonna lie: when I fired up Spider-Man 2 and it was a stuttery, crashing mess, first thing I did was look up a DF preview/review. So, you know. We need you.
That's fair. Some really nice elements to the game, including some things implemented better than FH5, although the lack of crossplay freemode felt like a real missed opportunity.
In the open world car festival sense, absolutely, but the physics and upgrade systems are very different, I think there will be quite an audience for both
1:09:55: "We had this massive inflationary spike." Those who have actually lived through hyperinflationary periods would love to have a word with you. Hell, I lived through the mid-to-late 70s into the early 80s. Inflation was MUCH worse then!
The idea that Nvidia is threatened by DeepSeek is very wrong. People did not buy less cars as they became more fuel efficient, people will not buy less GPUs if they become more efficient! Jensen himself (along with Bryan Catanzaro et al) predicted and welcomed the advances in inference scaling from Reinforcement and logical reasoning last year! Wall Street's ups and downs are often about groupthink, hype, and a poor understanding of the underlying technology. Think about it, literally just last month Wall Street was concerned with compute scaling - a narrative which DeepSeek (and o1/o3 from OpenAI to a lesser extent) COMPLETELY DESTROYS. There's no actual evidence that Microsoft or ANY of the hyperscalers are buying less GPUs as a result of the new models. Nvidia almost certainly WELCOMES advances in models, ESPECIALLY if they scale inference!
Market disagrees because this is a bubble and any indication that there is room for progress without throwing infinite money at faster hardware is bad news for the makers of said hardware.
38:40 like what kind of question is that? Make a video that informs people about the technical state of the game. If Nixxes releases a patch you make another video reporting on it. That is your job, isn't it?
They have a lot of different things they need to cover that’s more important than having to make a second video on the game when the video is just about “what was fixed”. They likely don’t want to have to make a second video I.e. all the testing, the editing, writing the video etc. it doesn’t take an hour to make a video rich said in this it’s about a few days usually. There might be certain times of the year where things are very slow for them and they can do this but typically it isn’t desirable to make 2 different videos when you could just wait and make 1 when the game is fixed, especially when instead of making a dedicated video you can just cover it on this podcast.
31:30 I would not be surprised if Nixxes did not recieve a 50 Series for Q/A. Probably they received a piece of paper stating: "Available in Stores soon".
If there is a process node change the jump from 5090 to 6090 will hopefully be more like the improvement from 3090-4090. 5000 series to me so far looks like the most underwhelming generation for a long time.
I think that's why. He had to make 5+ videos on one game when so many other amazing games come out that he couldn't cover because jedi survivor was surviving by a thread.
Alex, I don't think it's your problem if your video is outdated because they patched the game after your video. The game should've come out in a good state, and your video would be a cautionary reminder to people not to buy games before watching a proper third-party analysis of the product. If a publisher suffers poor sales in the future because of an outdated video, that's on them for releasing it in a poor state.
Yeah gotta agree, I feel like waiting for the “inevitable” early patches is kind of enabling their behavior rather than pushing back against it. I would imagine giving more slack to an indie dev or something is prudent but not as much so to the large publishers who clearly have the resources to ensure a good product at launch
@@Chyllbacca second this
Couldn’t agree more. Unfortunately it’s another reminder to never preorder as you’ll never have the “complete” game on release
You're 100% not wrong, but there were other reasons for not delivering a day one review too. Alex is working on another video, and only got access to the game during the weekend when he wasn't at work. I think those are valid reasons for not reviewing it yet.
Besides, they already do post-release videos on updated content. So what would the problem be?
Capturing the brutal honest review of a game on release has value for historical context also. Holding companies accountable to releasing products in a poor state is part of the value I see as a consumer, in teams like DF.
Unfortunately comments asking for this type of coverage and accountability are called being angry
@@marquisjohnson2081 And DF only gets angry with AMD gpu's
Is that really relevant though when games get patched within the first few days
Sort of. But it’s less relevant If patches are already lined up to fix the problems within days. This is doubly true if it’s pre-release and the day one patch makes many of their problems obsolete for actual players. Fine line, and depends on what is coming. Hard to judge
+1 for silly hats
Meh
101
-1 come on, it’s the 200 episode, bring something special not just hats.
Uhh already 299 likes
Daaaamn!!
3:44 - curious
4:02 - curious
10:25 - compelling
10:53 - compelling
13:31 - compelling
13:50 - compelling
14:17 - curious
14:26 - curious
16:36 - *bespoke*
16:44 - curious
16:50 - curious
19:16 - curious
24:54 - -curious- intrigued
24:58 - curious
25:31 - curious
25:38 - curious
28:46 - in the here and now (Oliver edition)
40:44 - curious
Lmao
Bro, please do one for every instance John butchers the word ‘basically’ by mispronouncing it as “basely”. I swear he said it 6 or 7 times the last Direct he was on. It’s like an ice pick in my ear
@balaam_7087 Haha! I know what you mean, but I don't do these to be mean spirited, just a bit of fun.
Beautiful. I especially love Rich's last minute switch from Curious to Intrigued ❤
😂😂😂
A developer called "Panic Button" handling the port of a former Xbox exclusive to a direct competitor's platform makes a lot of sense 😂
The Goats of Switch ports
Thank you, Oliver, for actually bringing up the real AIB / Street price of GPUs instead of the MSRPs. People need to stop falling for Nvidia's MSRP numbers, because the vast majority of units sold are AIB models way above that.
I only managed to get an MSRP 5080 by stalking Canada Computers listings and getting lucky with a Zotac model suddenly appearing. The entirety of Canada computers, the largest PC part chain in Canada, at the point I bought the card (last Friday at 5pm) only ever had 9 5080 models in total and 0 5090 models for the whole nation scattered across different stores trickled out. There were only 4 MSRP models out of the 9 5080 models
Not even a paper launch, just vapour
@@Merp9 I was so close to buying the Zotac 5080 too, but was just beat by 5 minutes at the Waterloo location lol. It was like $50 over MSRP right, almost nothing... but luckily I was able to get a similar priced PNY backorder from best buy so fingers crossed that comes in a couple of weeks.
@@Merp9the zotac 5080 in my country are about 1600 USD atm how crazy is that. Usually the zotac 4080 super goes at about 1150 USD here.
@nonameddog I'm at the North York location, was $1499CAD. Especially with the Lunar New Year coming up and affecting factory output, people aren't going to be getting MSRP cards for a long time, if ever
Not even factoring the whole trade ware debacle...
Oliver is the man of the people.
"My life is not defined by how powerful a new GPU is..." words to live by
Says a review site whose literal livelihood is dependent on new and interesting hardware/software to sell the viewers on.
"Just buy it" "When your whole life flashes before your eyes, how much of it do you want to not have ray tracing?"
If companies are selling games full price it should be a complete experience.
IS JOHN LINNEMAN ALIVE????
Have been quite sick. Bad laryngitis and can’t speak without a raspy voice. 😢
@@dark1x That sucks, I hope you feel better soon!
get well soon john, love all your retro videos!
@@dark1x We love you John! Take your time to recover! I appreciate keeping us up to date!
Thank you for all the awesome content you provide for us! You and DF made my days better! Respect!
@@dark1x hoping you geht well soon
Rich's reasonableness is a big part of why I'm here.
Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people hate his points, but I'm the same way as he is. If some product comes out that's bad, I just react by making no plans to buy it. I don't understand the emotional reactions...
Agreed. If you look at 50 series videos on other channels some people in the comments are calling out Rich/DF for being shills, liars, etc. since he didn't do a angry "takedown" style video. These people just love drama.
"My life isn't defined on how powerful an Nvidia GPU is" is absolutely bang on. I'm really disappointed but I'm not spitting feathers like some people I've seen.
@@deschain1910Noones getting emotional. We're disappointed. If you aren't disappointed by yet another poor release or overpriced GPU then you aren't a fan of gaming.
@@AJ-xv7oh Either you're delusional, or you don't understand what emotional means. Disappointment is emotion. Anger is emotion. I've seen a lot of both out there.
Oliver was such a great addition to the team. Really enjoy listening to his points of view.
Yeah, he became my favorite member pretty much overnight.
Yes, agree.:-)
Oliver is a realist is all. Obviously sick and tired of bad PC ports like Alex. Richard needs to Pander to Sony though which is why he never outright knocks them or they upset IGN a bit too much who answers to Ziff Davis.
It’s all a scam really where the consumer is the patsy stuck inbetween corporate giants bs.
It is laughable really just use Gamepass for free and play them at their own game.
Spider-Man 2 drops to the 50’s with a 5080. That’s….that’s something.
Amazing Day One Nvidia drivers ;)
I hope situations like these will teach people to stop fanboying or trivialising over brands and studios…I can see a 50/50 fault here between Nixxes testing methodology and Nvidia’s driver team…
@@or1on89assuming the issue is drivers
AMD, Nvidia & Intel GPUs all have issues with Spiderman 2
That points to a game issue, not a driver issue
I'm *CPU limited* with a 4060ti and a Ryzen 7700. That is *not* what I would expect. Something is very wrong with this port
Runs buttery smooth at 60fps on my PS5 Pro!
@@Nat-yf6ff the game has its slack of issues…especially memory leaks in the VRAM department. But from what I am seeing with my own computers Nvidia was not prepared either…I have less issues on my 7900XTX than on my 3080Ti with RT on. Everyone screws up, and people need to ask more from the companies they give their money to. This is a prima example.
With Spider-Man Remastered we had a driver crash for a very long time on my 3080Ti and it was very random, I started thinking something else’s in my system was the problem…10 month after the game release Nixxes fixed it and Nvidia released a complimentary driver…
These companies need to sort their shit out and people need to stop supporting fake myths about wonderful ports and wonderful Nvidia software…because that’s what DF is going to say in their delayed review in the conclusions…by omitting an analysis of the current state of the game…
For the 200 episode, Richard should wear a luscious afro wig, so we can appreciate his yesteryears looks.
Thank you for sharing your reasonable stance on the NVIDIA “situation”. Yes, we are disappointed, and we may even be angry, but Rich put it so well: don’t buy it. If you don’t like the product, simply don’t buy it!! That is the best way you can advocate for better value. NVIDIA hasn’t downgraded the existing products. The new ones are simply bad value. That’s no reason whatsoever to be outraged; it’s reason to tune out, that’s it. And Oliver’s take on how the entire silicon industry is suffering was brilliant: people seem to forget that silicon is currently absurdly expensive and - notwithstanding the questionable marketing and pricing practices - NVIDIA is actually trying to do something about it, however they can.
i like the idea of a DF quick look, maybe even just firing up the game and capturing your reactions and then edit together a summary of the first 30 minutes or something.. no graphs, no rigorous settings testing, just the first impressions
the detailed review can come later after a patch or two
Yea essentially what they did for FF7 Rebirth in this quasi podcast format.
That's what they did in this podcast. A quick look highlighting the issues. All they need to do is clip it out of this and upload it as its own video so people who don't watch these get the information.
no, games need to launch in a working state and this idea basically muddies the waters.
it's pro publisher and anti consumer.
This is why I never buy games on day 1.
If they can't be bothered to put out a working product, then I can't be bothered to buy their game.
I have always hoped that DF would go back to games that had known issues at launch half a year or a year later to check if those games have been fixed. I might be in the minority, but I usually wait to see if a game has any issues when deciding to buy the game and whether it would be best to buy it on the PS5 or the PC. And sometimes if the game has issues at launch that are majorly reported by almost everyone, there are few or no channels that go back to these troubled games 6 or 12 months later to confirm if the issues had been fixed. I feel that if DF wants their videos to be more helpful to their viewers for a long period of time, this would be one way that can be really useful. It does not need to be a long video, just short videos that confirms whether a game has been fixed or are still broken so it is easier for the viewers to decide which platform would be a better choice to buy a game from.
Good on Oliver for calling out what is clearly anti consumer behavior from Nvidia with the pricing, driven by an effective monopoly in the product segment.
How is it a monopoly when 7900XTX exists while 4080/4090/5080/5090 basically don't, it competes favorably with 4080/5080, and it will probably still be AMD's fastest card even after 9070 launches? If lack of consumer awareness/interest of a competing product is the problem then isn't that what DF should be addressing rather than a product that exists only on paper somehow being a monopoly?
@@AFistfulOf4K If you want the top end of gaming graphics right now, high framrate path tracing, Nvidia is the only company that can accomodate that. That's what I meant by monopoly. Personally I think the 7900XTX is a great card, and that path tracing is way overrated for the processing overhead, but the truth is the 7900XTX just doesn't compete in that segment.
@@AFistfulOf4Kit’s an oligopoly, people misuse the word monopoly all the time. They all have options but won’t buy it because they really want the features Nvidia does “best” and somehow that’s Nvidia’s fault.
It’s like getting mad at a car company for making the fastest car and claiming it’s not fair because the other companies haven’t caught up
@@kurtwells711and somehow that Nvidias problem that AMD doesn’t want to catch up.
@@NothingHereForYou It's not Nvidia's problem, it's our problem.
The amount of warm feels I get from this show is crazy. Comfort food.
I'm getting 100% repro crashes on Spider Man 2 at max settings on a 4090 with a 13900K... With the only solution being to disable RT features until I get past this crash, enable RT again and remove it once it re-appears.
RT reflections is a huge improvement in that game so that makes it hard to skip... but I've had like more than 30 crashes in 8 hours of play time
I'm also seeing inconsistent frame time as reported in your video.
They already shipped a small patch yesterday which solved some crash cases but it's not fully fixed at all. It's a shame, we CANNOT get a new big game to ship in acceptable basic conditions right now even with super powerful 24GB GPUs. And they must know this was happening before shipping the game, in that case please devs: delay the game!
These are the reasons I will not be returning to high end PC gaming anytime soon. It’s just not worth the hassle anymore as there are just too many issues within the PC space right now. I’m very happy with the PS5 Pro for the next few years.
I have the same configuration and I get pretty regular crashes. Oddly I seem to get them more frequently during cutscenes than any kind of gameplay, but I've only played for about 3 hours before giving up so it's hard to establish a pattern. It's really frustrating because I expect poor performance from Ubisoft and EA published games (regardless of the developer), and Unreal 5 are obviously a mixed bag at release most of the time, but Nixxes has a really good track record so I thought this would be a solid day 1 purchase. Oh well.
4080 here and also brutal full system reboot crashing. Tried all kinds of settings and it will crash after 15-20 mins. I find this so strange because the miles morales pc port worked just fine. Is the tech in this game really that much different?
I was able to get the game pretty stable (crashes are many hours apart instead of minutes) by rolling back my driver. The latest driver seems to have been the cause of a ton of crashes for me in other games, too, like FF7 Rebirth.
Turn off Ray Reconstruction. That caused all my crashes and it looks worse on. As soon as i turned it off,no crashes.
Losless scaling is amazing for doing 60 patches to games like Jet Set Radio.
Lossless Scaling is garbage.
Lossless scaling is great for you, then YOU haven't seen FG NV. Additionally, enabling LS causes a drop in output fps performance.
Problem with 5080 is that it actually is a 70 series card for 1,000 bucks.
When you are lucky…because if the store only has Asus models you can add 35% to that price…
Thats a lie I'm afraid. The current "official" MSRP on Amazon UK is £2000 for a 5080...
I will buy a 5080 and 5080ti. I have 3 gaming PCs to fill out
No, it's an 80 series card.
Copium lol
1:29:00 YES, Google has become useless, it’s basically a direct link to TH-cam, Reddit and Wikipedia
Long story short, if you want a 5090 become a reviewer...
Spider man 2 is out today, yes? So review the product today. Not what it can be or could be. You aren’t a marketing firm, you are a reviewer.
If they didn’t want a review in the performance to be bad, then they shouldn’t have released it as such.
The problem is that even if a lot of problems go unfixed, the state that it is now is useless for the majority of people that will buy this game, yet this day one review will appear in everyone's feed when looking for the state of the gsme
game is fine on pc. were several hours in. nothing to report.
Don't buy games on day one. Ever.
@@kubeanie18 That's why it's mixed on Steam, right? This video even says there's something wrong with it
They just launched an update and it’s supposed to fix some crashes, haven’t tried it yet though
"One week away from the big 200 and I can exclusively reveal that we have no special plans for the 200th show whatsoever" Lol
Just an FYI in regards to the PS5 Pro-console: Proconsul is an extinct genus of primates that existed from 21 to 17 million years ago during the Miocene epoch.
1:05:35 Theyre angry because everything needs to be overly sensitized these days,look at TH-cam thumbnails with mouths wide open for example
it's so tiresome to see all these grown men throwing hissy fits over what is essentially a luxury hobby.
@@darudesandstorm7002 its embarrassing but i guess when this hobby is the only thing you've got going on in your life it's expected
Not surprised the 3rd game has issues too when the previous spider-man games on Pc still have bad texture loading issues on buildings and crashing issues that can corrupt saves
The Deepseek deep dive by Oliver was really awesome! Just a wealth of knowledge.
Maybe I shouldn't have skipped that part lol
As a reviewer, you should be reviewing the game it launched in. Not what it can be protecting the devs but protecting consumers from buying a bad product.
Remember that this is not a game review channel, this is a game rendering/tech review channel.
And they've done a great job alerting us about games/products in bad states.
That isn't useful longterm though and it's not practical to redo breakdowns with every major patch. The idea of a quicklook that Richard mentioned to highlight issues with problematic games then maybe a more indepth video later seems reasonable
They should also call Nvidia bs and bad drivers when they happen…
they ain't a game-reviewing channel fcol. also: everyone by now knows sm2 on pc should be avoided in its current state.
Still. There were a lot of other non-fan favourite games/devs DF covered regardless of patches coming or not in particular to influence the Devs. And if two weeks from now patches won't come, what then? What about the people who look to DF reporting on issues to make an informed purchase. I think not covering such a big game even to make an addendum later is a miss. Not suggesting they are protecting Nixxes and Insomniac from having their first L but this is not a W for DF as well. Maybe they can do a short "before you buy" vid just signaling the problems in the future.
Do you see Microsoft going the way of cell phone companies?
Require Game Pass to use whatever the next hardware is. Further, subsidize the price of the box with long term mandatory game pass memberships.
Similar to your iphone. You get it for $300-$500 when it really costs $2000. But they make their money back in your membership fees.
Then they can iterate the "box" every two years to get a bump in revenue without having to catastrophically change the tech inside.
My experience with XSX and windows has been enough for me to not want to use MS hardware or software at all in the future.
I could see them pulling this scenario because their MS execs have always been out of touch with the gaming world given it's relatively low profitability against their main product (govt infrastructure).
I hope they don't. I could see that leading to Xbox being done. And despite my bad experiences, I wouldn't want them to leave the market.
This is what concerns me. Running billionaires companies teaches that they often focus TOO much on short term profitability (especially the younger ones)
Anyway, sorry for the word wall. Hopefully there's something in this that is interesting and not completely unfounded.
Thanks!
Only ps5 gamers spend their time day dreaming about death of xbox. In reality they're still going strong.
@MrWizardGG did you mean to copy me in this comment? Im not sure how this is related to what I was asking. 👍
Microsoft (and Sony) will eventually go the way of Netflix. A monthly tiered streamjng subscription service which will give you access to the Gamepass library and a streaming quality matched to the tier you have subscribed to (1080p/2160@60/2160@120/etc).
@@coliander4180 could def see that as the end game. 👍
I'm with you Alex on mobile gaming. I can't stand it either! 🤣
It's nice and dandy that Phil says he wants his hardware to win on hardware, but fundamentally you need to convince people why buying a console that has both PS and Xbox games isn't more compelling.
Its rather amusing, Phil has the ambition and goal posts set for that vision, but no road map how to get there which is clearly evident otherwise we'd be seeing him say why to pick an Xbox over a Playstation but we don't because he has no good reason to suggest doing so.
If their next console has multiple storefronts then yes essentially you’ll be able to play PS games on your Xbox as well. We can’t really make any assumptions until we see what the next console is
@@JDwall9192 I've only ever seen Xbox fan people like Destin making up dream scenarios in their heads like this for their next console or theoretical handheld but I just can't see it ever becoming a reality.
$20 a month for every single Xbox produced title goes along way especially when their current output is 5 games in 5 months. Compare that to current and even future Sony output they have so very few games coming out and you have to pay full price for them.
@@shredenvain7 Sony offer a similar service on PS+ Extra tier which also gives you plenty of value, _plus_ you're getting Xbox exclusives now too.
36:23 Oliver falls asleep
He's on his Steam Deck 😂
Why do y'all keep acting like Alex didn't specifically say he hasn't even had time to play Spiderman 2 for a review, and that he's currently working on another video? Calling people "bought" for not working during their break is ridiculous.
Having quicker video during the first week of a games release can immediately tell me whether the full price tag is worth it to me.
Those longer in-depth videos feel a little more long-term, so maybe it's not worth the work if it'll be fixed after a few weeks?
It never is
Just 2GB more RAM would've made it a lot easier for developers to port their games to Series S.
Xbox going multiplatform isn't an issue for me. It's cool that PS players can get the opportunity to play Forza, maybe Halo Master Chief in the future…those are the kinds of games that don't exist in Sony's catalog. That will make money for Microsoft/Xbox, leading to more games in the future and more entries for Game Pass. I'll stay with my XSX (I already sold my PS5). I just hope they won't drop the hardware in the future; I like their products. And they could make an Xbox controller for PS5, who knows?
Yeah i don't want to wait entire console generations to get the good games just so I get day one access to awful Japanese dodging simulators.
They already said they're going to keep making consoles..
What happens when Sony get REALLY anti consumer next gen without any real competition?
It’s not possible.
The competition is Nintendo + PC, Xbox has been absent for more than 10 years we have more great games that we can play in our total free time. We'll be fine.
@@marrow94 I don’t think Steam and Switch are direct competitors. The user base moves in different circles.
We get 100$ base price, 800$ ps6 at launch with no stand or drive, a digital only system, no weaker configuration ala Series S, an uptick for PS+ subscription price, and even less first party exclusives
@@-PVL93- it's crazy, consoles used to be seen as a an affordable way into gaming and pc for the luxury of high frame rates and resolutions but now you may as well get a pc. They're not that much more expensive, cheaper even when you consider how cheap games on steam can be and free multiplayer.
Sony and Microsoft releasing their games on pc too. I'm glad consoles are pushing for these new standards but the amount of anti consumerism they're pushing is just not worth it anymore imo. At least Nintendo, while not perfect, is still doing their own thing.
The good thing about Forza horizon five being ported to PlayStation is that it will probably reset the clock on the license to music and cars in the game that might ultimately mean the game is available in all stores for much longer than it might have otherwise been. Forza horizon four have recently been delisted.
I would imagine this being released on PlayStation five also opens the door for it appearing on switch 2 when that arrives the specs at the very least look like it is more powerful than the Xbox One on which the title also launched as a cross gen release
that's why we buy physical (so long as the game is on the disc lol)
Oh, good point!
Good point!
I don't see the game coming to Nintendo Switch 2 due to a lack of pressure sensitive triggers. On the teaser trailer, the ZL and ZR buttons look identical to the previous console, which weren't Pressure Sensitive. I did try to play Forza Horizon 5 on Cloud Gaming with a Switch Pro Controller. It's hardly playable when ZL and ZR always output 100% pressure and 0% pressure instantaneously with no in-betweens, making certain cars a pain to drive without Traction Control, Launch Control or Throttle Control.
@@X2011racer You can still download any digital Forza and all the DLC you already own, you just can't buy it now if you missed out before it got de-listed.
You do realise that right?
Everybody acts like the game can't be played anymore once it gets delisted but it can be, the same way you can still download all your 360 games even though the entire store is shut for new sales, nobody has lost a single thing they already own except that free Silent Hill demo thing that came out on PS4.
The absolutely correct answer about reviewing shit ports is that the review should come out as soon as possible so that you can call attention to these glaring issues and help people not waste time and effort on voodoo fixes that don't do shit.
These companies need to be held accountable for putting out garbage and giving them benefit of the doubt by withholding the video for weeks/months to see if they fix it, only benefits the company since the issues aren't being highlighted.
Hell, you can make a second video for all these games after 2,3 months to see if there was any progress.
where’s john?? who will bring us the latest playstation 3 news if he’s not here??! 😮😮😮
I think you mean the PS Triple
Xbox Circle
I liked Alan's question. Xbox could be the continuation of what Sega did with Dreamcast. It's like asking, what if Sega had kept making hardware but still brought their key IP to other systems?
Agree
Xbox isnt there yet, all their big games are still exclusive on xbox for the first few years, so this is still fake news
The difference is that Microsoft are setting up a future where you can get their box and get some games, or a Playstation and get all games
It's genuinely hard to see how Xbox hardware keeps selling at that point once mainstream folks catch on.
MS say they'll compete with better hardware, but I just don't see how that will outweigh investing in a way bigger and more comprehensive ecosystem for software.
@SimonM7TV you are drinking Sony Kool aid. You can't get all xbox games on ps5, they don't come to ps5 until years later in some cases like Forza 5 or Fable.
he's crying even louder 😂😂😂😂
Why add hardware RT Shadows to Spider-Man 2 when they are only static, pretty sure it was the same with Miles Morales but it screams last min edition / Lazy implementation. When the baked in shadows look more reactive and fitting than a RT solution that can cost you like 30% of your performance what's the point.
I know Nvidia has really dropped the ball on optimized drivers for the past couple of games. You'd think Rebirth and Spider-man 2 would have had some. Or least one of them but nothing.
Do we know that, or is it just a hypothesis?
@Joostinonline is just a theory. It is unusual, though not to have drivers for AAA games.
DF Direct Weekly makes Mondays easier to get through.
In Nz 5080s are going for between $2700-3100 (incl tax) which works out around $1300-1500 USD (excl tax). This is fucking insane for what is effectively a 70 class card.
But but it can run CyBeRpUnK with PaTh TrAcInG at 15 FPS for 1500$
Y u don't see the value here? It's 100$ / fps. 🤣
This is what us, filthy gamers deserve by Nvidia's vision about gaming and people are still waiting many hours in queues to get hand fed with 💩
@H4GRlD im running cyberpunk 2077 with pathtracing at 4k DLSS quality 40fps locked though with a 5080
@ Good for you if you enjoy the console like performance for 4 times the price.
Same bullshit in most non-US countries. I'm sure some is tax and import costs, but GPU prices are out of control.
Thing we gotta ask ourselves though, is are games with demanding/photorealistic graphics more fun than games with simpler graphics and more interactivity or creative art styles? I don't think so, but I guess fancy graphics sell games.
@@H4GRlD I didn't know consoles can do pathtracing. thats kinda crazy
If you stick with only reflections and keep all other rt features off it runs at 140 on m 4080 with a 7800x3d and DLSS on Quality with FG at 4k. All the new nvidia stuff seems to be added with a hot needle. Not yet ready.
@Digital Foundry As per Alex's request, a good way to think about doing a video when the game is broken at launch, but will most likely be patched shortly would be to do a quick look video "Early Impressions" and then wait for a bit to do the full thurough video. I'd rather just know the game is broken and get a quick overview at launch so I can avoid the game, and then have a longer in depth video once the game is deemed good enough for purchase. I like the long in depth PC coverage videos, but at launch mostly what I want to know is if the port is broken.
I would also love to hear about your guys favorite games through the years, for anything special for the 200th episode.
Forza used to allow MSAA and FXAA at the same time, but after they added TAA, this is no longer possible.
It wast the best combo covering vegetation as well.
can we have a video comparing AF/MF, smooth motion and lossless scaling's new algorithm for an ultimate driver level scaling/ frame gen analysis? that would be great.
When its sold out, and hard to get, people want it more. Oooo it must be a great product, its always out of stock. But you can still get a pre-built with those cards I am sure.
Drink for when Rich references a medieval rationalist philosophical principle.
The average person will not buy consoles that are priced way above the usual pricing, like PS5 pro.
With a 25% increase in performance not worth it
Is ML potentially heading towards an equivalent fundamental architectural shift like we saw with unified shaders? Dumping raster basics and significantly increasing ML across the GPU?
I get confused hearing MS can't do a series s portable affordably at this time, but then people say Switch 2 will be at the performance of Series S. How can Nintendo make an affordable handheld that's better than a steam deck and close to Series S when docked? Make it make sense.
Because no one serious is actually saying that. The Switch 2 will absolutely not have the performance of a Series S. Not even close.
because its virtually impossible to make a handheld that can match the series s for now
@@chrisdprattDF themselves have alluded to and teased the theoretical Switch 2 performance using ‘dlss’ even matching a PS5.. these guys absolutely fall victim to click bait and overhyping just like every other TH-cam channel trying to make a buck just have to be smart enough to decipher the noise
I'd say make a very quick video on the current status of the game so people know to wait, but not too much effort so IF they fix it, reminder its never guaranteed, a longer video could come out to cover the current state.
Also acknowledge the poor launch performance at the beginning even if it does get better. Many people buy games extremely close to launch and even a 1-2 minute PSA is valueable.
I think so many are assuming AMD is going to fumble the RDNA 4 launch for a couple of reasons. First, they kinda already *have* fumbled RDNA4, at least in terms of stock management and messaging. Second -- and more to the point -- they have a long-standing pattern of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, at least in the GPU space. They fumbled the RDNA 3 launch. And the RDNA 2 launch before that. And the RDNA launch before THAT. In fact, with a few specific exceptions (RX6600 once it hit $200), I'd argue that AMD hasn't released a compelling GPU since Polaris in 2016(!), which is kind of insane.
In short, Nvidia -$50 just ain't cutting it, and it's WELL PAST time AMD figured this out.
Rich, we're assuming that AMD is going to fumble it because (say it with me everyone) "AMD never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity." Especially in GPUs.
Spider Man 2 looks and runs way better on my PS5 Pro compared to my 4070 PC.
If I remember correctly DF tech review says the PS5 Pro runs at 1440p in performance mode on the Pro and fidelity mode is nearly native 2160p on the Pro.
🧢
Is it the same as base PS5?
I found ray reconstruction to be broken on this port. I also have a 4070. Have had a decent number of crashed and some random inexplicable slowdowns where my gpu is barely utilized and fps drops to single digits.
Outside of those admittedly big issues I get around 80-100 fps with Ray reconstruction off, dlss quality, and frame gen on
Didn't u no, the ps5 pro is actually better at raster and ray tracing than a 5090? cerny told me so over the phone
Low preset on everything specially RT with upscaling doing a massive heavy lifting
If you have to ask what streets ahead means then you are streets behind.
why are you guys carrying weed for Nvidia? smh
If you have to ask what streets behind means, then you aren't streets ahead.
I would just like to point out that the only physical store in Canada that carries 5090s (Best buy is hit or miss) Canada Computers announced even before "release" that they would be getting zero 5090s across the entire country. That has pushed demand and market price (Which is different from retail price) up more then anything which just lends more to the fact its a paper launch
For the 200th episode, review the GeForce 200 series
With regards to the latency issue with multi frame gen the only way around that is to use time dilation to give the gpu more time to render frames. Since the moving twin in the twin paradox experiences less time compared to the stationary twin the obvious solution is a gamer chair that vibrates the player at 50%+ the speed of light so that the gpu experiences more time relative to the gamer and is able to out put more frames or higher quality per frame during that time. Secret labs/Corsair/other gaming chair companies get on this PLZ!!!
Where's John?? I haven't seen him for quite a while.
John is being replaced
@@PCZONE1is that a joke?
He's not going anywhere, he said he's just sick at the moment
They released the game like that, so you guys should cover it because they approved it for launch.
spiderman 2 was probably released this soon to coincide with the new show on disney plus which would be fine if the port had been ready
There's always going to be people that try to defend horribly overpriced GPUs with mental gymnastics because THEY want one. I think everyone reading this WOULD want a 5080, it's not a "bad" GPU, but that's not the conversation.
The problem is it's a rebadged 5070 or at the very least 5070ti to pretend they aren't raising prices yet again. They claim it's a 5080 but all it is is a single digit uplift from the 4080 with similar power usage increases. It's exactly what you would expect from a 4080 super super. But even worse the MSRP is a lie and they've left it to the AIBs to crank the prices even higher.
Constant raising prices is one thing that's frustrating enough, but where people have a valid reason to actually get _offended_ is from being LIED TO. We're told it's a 5080, which it isn't. We're told it's faster than a 4090 because of MFG, which it isn't. We're told it's $999, which it isn't. We're told efficiency got better when it reality it got _worse._
Even the argument of "hey at least it's better than the 4080 super for the same money!" falls apart the second you realize almost NO cards were ever sold at MSRP. Cards aren't just getting scalped for far above MSRP, but their *_MSRPs_* themselves are starting at hundreds over $999. These cards will not drop to that price when the scalpers move on and supply gets better.
Spiderman 2 PC is the reason why in glad I bought a PS5 pro. Smooth and looks good.
Me too. Loving my Pro.
Would have gotten a PS5 Pro, but I got the opportunity to get the Slim 30th Anniversary, but I’m loving it, the Nostalgic look is beautiful 🤩, and so far looks great on the LG OLED with VRR.
Returnal, God of War, Days Gone, Horizon FW, GoT and Ratchet PC is the reason why in glad I sold my PS5. Smooth and looks good.
@@imp_ct that’s great, glad PC now gets allot of these first party PS5 games. Looking forward to trying out Horizon FW on PS5 after 100% Astrobot and finishing ratchet and clank.
@@imp_ctYou PC guys are too insecure.
Meanwhile, the 4070TI (non-super) is already up to more than $1000 USD on Amazon.
I almost sold my 4070ti for 850 usd but then Nvidia fumbled the 50 series launch. Now that dlss 4 is out for everyone my fomo is gone and will happily wait another generation while my current card only increased in value
Forza Horizon 5 has some nasty bugs in The Eliminator that PlayGround Games marked as won't fix. The worst one being displaying the map when you win a head to head that prevents you from upgrading and you are stuck in your current car unable to get in a new head to head until the end of the session. I'm wondering if Panic Button will "port" these bugs to the PlayStation.
Sounds like a cheat if used correctly. Say you have the Hoonigan RS200, and you trigger the glitch while driving it. Now, no one can challenge you until the final showdown.
Honestly noone cares about multiplayer
@zeus1117 It's literally an online game by default
Your coverage of FFVII rebirth is incredibly lacking compared to previous pc tech reviews.
you don't like doing "bad reviews" ?
wtf. That's why this channel exists. To let people know what they are buying
Its like bad reviews help give feedback to devs so they can make sth better the next time. Alex keeps saying stuff this past year that just make me dislike him more and more....
What's wrong with liking more when the story is positive if you keep telling the negative stories, like he has been doing?
They don’t technically review anything here. They do a technical analysis of available versions of games highlighting the strengths or weaknesses of the ports. They don’t analyze narrative/story or gameplay aspects in a subjective way.
No one likes talking about the bad stuff. They have to, but they don't have to enjoy it. Do you not know what emotions work?
this channel was never about reviews.. it was always about getting paid to praise games and graphics or dont get paid and tell people games look bad.
I think that the issue is in that most people are angry at nvidia giving them not the improvements from previous generations for the same price but not understanding the the manufactureing cost is up and they want to make the same margins because they are a corporation, which is not working for a consumer like any Corp is not, but bottom line is people are angry because there is no competition to drive the price market and innovation!!
Based on their answers to Microsoft's business plans the last few years I do wonder how the DF crew would react to Sega's waning Dreamcast days. "We think it's great Sega is bringing their games to other platforms!" "They're not gonna stop making hardware, with the rising cost of development, these moves just make sense!" Just curious😂
Xbox games still take 3 years to come to PS5, which is basically a full console generation at our current attention span levels. So No.
@@MrWizardGG Indy is coming out 3 months later, not 3 years
@@MrWizardGG doom is same day.
@parsashirali8957 yup that's cool but many games like Fable, South of Midnight are timed exclusives for longer
@@MrWizardGG😢😢😢😢
If you know anything about British people, expecting a Richard to get OUTRAGED about something is quite an amusing idea.
I'm not sure this is the right place to approach you guys.
But, do you all have a desire for creators like you to help you cover sports games?
I apologize if asking about sports games is insulting.
some of us computer scientists are also athletes who like these games and want to discuss how to make them better.
And I think your platform would be a great place to spark change in a gaming genre that employs various horrible game design philosophies to prioritize profit over quality of play.
That would be very boring since they just change the number and release the same game
@@samgoff5289what I'm suggesting is making content to change that reality. They get away with that because no one on the consumer side holds them accountable.
And if you hate sports games the way I assume most people watching this channel might, I can empathize with your view.
But those of us who've played these sports at a high level in real life...
... and who understand how to get more out of the chess match in the games get WAY more out of the games than the (they just changed the graphics) complaint most casuals players (and haters) make.
Very small design philosophy changes could make these games AMAZING without having to do MUCH more than they are doing now. That's why I think the convo could be valuable.
I get why that would be a long shot with THIS audience, but very few people are as thorough as the people here at DF. 👍
@@samgoff5289and thanks for chiming in. Your response actually validates the reason I think the content wouldn't really work.
You mentioned the conversations would be "boring."
I believe (maybe wrongly) that the bulk of viewers watching ANYTHING are there for the fun.
I'm not. I don't come to digital foundry for "fun." I come here to get smarter and hopefully contribute to the ongoing conversation to improve video games out of this stagnant design mediocrity that these lazy publishers have employed over the last few decades.
Very few of the convos i would want to see would be "fun."
Hence, you are probably right. This is not a good idea. 😔
@@BryantChamberstvi do agree with you that there should be a dedicated channel that’s big specifically for sports and/or specifically for sports games. i understand the wish to have better games but they can’t be upheld by a million subscriber niche youtube channel meant for generalized video gaming topics including physical technology. i wish they’d change the games more though
Do you think you can accurately measure nvidia frame gen stuff and compare it to native gaming if you only use closed source nvidia software for it?
I honestly think waiting to do a video on the SM2 port (a couple weeks to a month) would be best, since otherwise you'd just have to do an update video anyways.
I think it's good now so people dont buy it and find out after and have to wait for patches.
its still important to point how things are at launch. they keep releasing broken games, it should be taken into consideration.
Yah we need to stop buying them at all if they mess up this badly so they do the work before release. They want the initial sales then fix it later.
Its a pleasure to see you guys, everytime!
Oliver is the best. Enjoying all these ai explanations. Thanks Oliver
He’s come a long way
Halo and Forza coming to PS5 ?. uttering such words, only afew years ago would get your head chopped off. I'll pick up both games
Theyre fairly old franchises at this point
halo hasn't had a good game since Reach in 2011. 4 sucked, 5 sucked and infinite sucked.
Re: how to cover Spider-Man 2 -- I think you should just wait. Spider-Man 2 might end up being a special case -- a rare miss from a port developer known for putting out great products with excellent post-launch support. But you were right in your comments - any video you put out now will be outdated within a week; if you want to give consumers something timely and useful, maybe do a TH-cam Short that just says "game is unfinished, wait for patches".
Taking the 'timeliness' requirement away, you could wait to review the product once you feel it's been patched to a state that represents Nixxes' likely intent. BUT, that video would probably warrant a lengthy intro segment that covers the initial launch, the total lack of prerelease marketing, etc, etc. The eventual SM2 PC video could be a useful illustration of "how -NOT- to market and publish a PC port of a AAA first-party release".
The game looks to be doing shader compilation in the background for the first 15-20min of the game making for quite a bit of stuttering on my computer anyway (amd 7700X, 6900XT).
I don't remember the game informing me it was going to do shader compilations in the background but perhaps I missed that message 🤔
I like Rich's response to the criticism of his 5080 review. The techtuber space is kind of a joke atm, it's full of ragebait and theatrical nonsense where I have to navigate people's massive egos to see if a product suits my situation. I guess if you're not pounding your chest, yelling and calling everything garbage or making quips non-stop then it means you're shilling. There's a real lack of maturity when it comes to the bigger hardware reviewers and it shows in their work and in the 'communities' they foster.
Not gonna lie: when I fired up Spider-Man 2 and it was a stuttery, crashing mess, first thing I did was look up a DF preview/review. So, you know. We need you.
8:45 That’s quite mean for The Crew Motorfest which is a great competitor…
I was going to make the exact same comment haha
That's fair. Some really nice elements to the game, including some things implemented better than FH5, although the lack of crossplay freemode felt like a real missed opportunity.
In the open world car festival sense, absolutely, but the physics and upgrade systems are very different, I think there will be quite an audience for both
1:09:55: "We had this massive inflationary spike." Those who have actually lived through hyperinflationary periods would love to have a word with you. Hell, I lived through the mid-to-late 70s into the early 80s. Inflation was MUCH worse then!
The idea that Nvidia is threatened by DeepSeek is very wrong. People did not buy less cars as they became more fuel efficient, people will not buy less GPUs if they become more efficient! Jensen himself (along with Bryan Catanzaro et al) predicted and welcomed the advances in inference scaling from Reinforcement and logical reasoning last year! Wall Street's ups and downs are often about groupthink, hype, and a poor understanding of the underlying technology. Think about it, literally just last month Wall Street was concerned with compute scaling - a narrative which DeepSeek (and o1/o3 from OpenAI to a lesser extent) COMPLETELY DESTROYS. There's no actual evidence that Microsoft or ANY of the hyperscalers are buying less GPUs as a result of the new models. Nvidia almost certainly WELCOMES advances in models, ESPECIALLY if they scale inference!
The stocks probably dipped because of trumps plan to tariffs Taiwanese made semiconductors, not just deepseek. Nvidia buys out of taiwan.
Not only that, with deepseek been free, everyone with some money, can have there own AI!!! So more GPU will be sold.
AI and Cars are completely different.
Market disagrees because this is a bubble and any indication that there is room for progress without throwing infinite money at faster hardware is bad news for the makers of said hardware.
It's not that. It's more like public transport getting good. So much so that the cars aren't needed in the quantity previously needed.
There was absolutely no press for the PC version of spider man 2. They knew the game was busted
39:01 just playing the game with John or Olivier showing the issues and why you can’t properly cover the game.
One thing this generation has made completely clear to me is that I need to get off console and get a PC so I can run my games the way I choose
38:40 like what kind of question is that? Make a video that informs people about the technical state of the game. If Nixxes releases a patch you make another video reporting on it. That is your job, isn't it?
IGN now owns DF, so….
Calm, down he's just asking for ideas.
Im certain they also don't want to waste time and effort on a video that gets patched mid production. You act like it's trivial to make those reviews
They have a lot of different things they need to cover that’s more important than having to make a second video on the game when the video is just about “what was fixed”. They likely don’t want to have to make a second video I.e. all the testing, the editing, writing the video etc. it doesn’t take an hour to make a video rich said in this it’s about a few days usually. There might be certain times of the year where things are very slow for them and they can do this but typically it isn’t desirable to make 2 different videos when you could just wait and make 1 when the game is fixed, especially when instead of making a dedicated video you can just cover it on this podcast.
31:30 I would not be surprised if Nixxes did not recieve a 50 Series for Q/A. Probably they received a piece of paper stating:
"Available in Stores soon".
The 6090 will be faster and the 5080/90 will be slower by a large margin so ill wait and save my money for it
If there is a process node change the jump from 5090 to 6090 will hopefully be more like the improvement from 3090-4090. 5000 series to me so far looks like the most underwhelming generation for a long time.
If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there to hear it, did it even happen? The same thought process can be applied to the 50-series "launch".
A lot of excuses for Alex to not make a Spiderman 2 video.. Did he forget his coverage of Jedi Survivor spanning almost 2 years?
I think that's why. He had to make 5+ videos on one game when so many other amazing games come out that he couldn't cover because jedi survivor was surviving by a thread.
*Judder Survivor