German tradition because of Saint Boniface felling an oak some Germans were worshiping and using the sapling of a fir tree which is evergreen to speak of eternal life in Christ. This was in the 8th century. Saint Boniface is an Orthodox saint.
Thank you and I will not add anymore to what you've said because orthodox sites have censored or deleted me when I've tried to explain our " sign of the cross," Halloween, or like the word Easter.
@williamedwards2512 I don't think it's Priests or preachers censoring you, it might be TH-cams AI censoring you which happens to almost everyone because "muh feewings"
Even if this is true- but we could argue this because there would be some evidence of its existence as a tradition in the books of our church Fathers or the Bible- the form it has now is something completely different. It's not natural like this" tradition" implies it's usually plastic with plastic or glass ornaments and artificial lights used by merchants to attract buyers. It's part of a hyper materialism ritual. It's so Antichristian that I think it's a terrible mistake to try an appropriate an Antichristian practice. Would we appropriate costume wearing and carnivals ? The only connection is the word Christmas ( which they change too to Xmas no wonder )
this are 2 different st. boniface, the orthodox one is the st.boniface of tarsus who was killed in 304ad and has nothing to do with the anglosaxon one in germany.
@@ariversideview5775 can you provide an evidence from the Bible or our church Fathers that's states the tree with the star and decorations lights etc is a Christian tradition?
I feel like this isn't something that needs to be over analyzed. A a Westerner, it just feels right. The lights, the tree, gathering together to celebrate the birth of Christ as a family and as a parish. Giving icons and holy things as gifts. If we are blessed, snow, with flakes that radiate like lights in the dark sky. All of the traditions, when oriented properly cry out "Glory to God" and radiate "peace on earth and good will to all men".
The early church NEVER used Christmas trees. It’s first used during the 16th century. Why would you add something that the ones who celebrated the nativity of Christ in the ancient church never did?
In Serbia we are Christian Orthodox. We decorate tree for new year but for our Christmas January 7 we still keep old tradition bringing home Oak tree branches. Putting dry straws under table. Oak tree represents new birth because old one from last year we burn in the fire. Fire is also very important represents something old is gone and new light is coming like Jesus. For Saint Nikolas which is Dec.19 we are giving kids some small presents like walnuts
We also have special bread that we bake for Christmas it is called cesnica. But definitely for Serbian Orthodox is most important fasting before Christmas, going to Church on liturgy and Christmas day be with your family. For Serbian people Uskrs or Ester is more important. We coloring eggs, decorating them and we are braking them on Ester . Eggs also represent new life like Jesus Voskrese
I am actually using a palm tree that I have already in my home. First money is really tight, and I don't have a car to get one. I do not want plastic. The palm tree is beautiful and it reminds me of the triumphal entry. For me it is only for decoration. I will put my little nativity underneath and the presents for the children. What I look forward to the most is the Holy Communion and thanking the Lord. The tree reminds me of the tree in the garden of eden. This is where everything began. My parents put little apples on the tree with beeswax candles when I grew up, it was very beautiful.
The ROCOR Church in my town celebrates Christmas with a Father Frost gathering for kids. There is nothing wrong enjoying Christmas with some secular things.
@@vladvlad11299 'Father Frost' is not a christian figure, so a church having a 'Father Frost' gathering is something that can be questioned. Not necessarily condemned. But if we have a 'Father Frost' gathering why not a 'Christmas goat' gathering or a Befana gathering? What is the limit?
There is nothing wrong with the Christmas tree it doesn't symbolize anything bad. To me, when you light the lights, it is a symbol of light. It is beauty and light giving. It brings peace and tranquility, and anything that brings peace and love, there is nothing wrong with it. No one worshiped the tree, unlike Santa Claus. Goodness is always goodness. The Christmas tree is one of God's beauty we all love in nature.
It's part of a ritual an ode to materialism ..it's lights are artificial. It can be beautiful and impressive but there is nothing Christian about the tree. In orthodoxy we don't use imagination and symbols. It would have been part of the church decoration. We don't have lights or 5 pointed stars in the church.
@rhondab9792 No one in this world today has any idea what the problem is. It is everyone's hearts being hardened and showing no love,no compassion, or no mercy. You are all failing, and you don't even know,you judge of what you know not of. Anything honoring Jesus the Christ is good. You will have no Christmas tree in your house but condemn the one that does, but they honor him with words and actions, but you who judge and condemn are the ones that truly are sinning. If you can not discern between good and evil, do not judge because you bring condemnation on yourself. Nothing that shows love for Jesus the Christ is evil, but those who think they can stand in judgment of their fellow man those is who condemnation is coming for. Best you do not judge if you know not what you speak of. And the word Christmas stands for what read that again.
@@Barreta72 the way to honour our Lord is by living our lives in the orthodox way and be in communion with Him. Material things won't bring us closer and symbols of materialism as well. The things came to a point with Christmas that it became Xmas 🎄🎁 if you can't see the absence of Christ and the abuse of the wording I can't help with that. I think we ( who won't put up a tree) are not condemning just saying that it's not part of our tradition, and therefore probably we are better off without engaging with this ritual or even decoration. If orthodox people think they are confident enough and will be able to keep the whole thing at a level where it doesn't interfere with the essence of the feast. Then it's fine I have tried it and it doesn't work in my case.
@Barreta72 also why are you so pationately defending a decoration /symbol to the point where you identify yourself with the tree in way because the supposedly "insults" to the tree are equal insults to you ( and everyone who likes and decorates Christmas trees )? Isn't this idolatry?
There are two Christmas. There is the true Christmas that celebrates the birth of Christ and a false Christmas which celebrates materialism and secularism.
I like Fr. Peter but I agree. This is getting kind of ridiculous. Fussing over the Christmas tree, really? I thought we were Orthodox, not Amish. Lord have mercy.
This is clarifying a lot of questions I had I usually just do a nativity Great history Father🥰🙏there is a verse in the Old testament that says not to decorate trees trees and bring them in the house I forgot where
The Christmas Tree has been integrated into Orthodoxy to the point where even if it was a bad thing, we couldn't just give up on it. The church that I go to has a Christmas Tree inside next to the Altar, went to other churches and saw something similar. In Romania for example most houses have a Christmas Tree, some of them are big and complex, others are really simolistic like a small tree next to the entrace on the house or smtg.
@@vladvlad11299 bishops are humans and can make mistakes. We could raise this concern in a discreet manner and respectfully. Isnt it obvious that's secular it's tied with the Santa and showering of presents ritual. It's all very extravagant and in orthodoxy we are not so "loud" even on feasts. We should strive to mimic monastics and the monastics the angels. But I guess since it is so rooted in the western culture, the only way I could think of appropriating this by having a simple tree that won't draw too much attention. People now are so excess with the tree that they compete for the nicest biggest one, showing off etc that's very secular as well.
I think its objectivly evident theyre okay for use. Put it this way, the light bulb was invented in the west, by a westerner and yet it is used in our eastern churches. The same way the christmas tree tradition is a product of the west in which we incorporate to our tradition. All my argument here is saying is just because something is from the west, doesnt mean its bad or against the orthodox faith simoly because its western. The tree is a product of nature which is a product of God and is beautiful. No one worships nor venerates the tree, its just there completely idle. I see no problem with this. Feel free to correct me if you beleive im wrong.
No, you are not wrong. The simple fact is that this lone ranger Fr Peter Heers hates the West, loathes everything Western. Soon he will attack and decry the use of wristwatches also because chronos is not kairos. It's pathetic..
Christ, the God-man, Himself is the fulfillment of all the good hopes and aspirations of the Celts and Teutons. They knew that trees were indicative of something higher and considered some to be sacred, albeit with a perspective warped by demons. Christ Himself is the Truth who despells all falsehood and showes Himself to be the Tree of Life.
He did state several times in this video that he was just simply presenting the different perspectives & is not necessarily making a case for or against. There's not enough evidence he claims to prove nor disprove the topic. He is stating that these things are just something to consider, etc.
Can I ask of other pagan traditions that have been "baptised" orthodox? The reality is that in Greece which is a cradle orthodox nation the trees were absent until the 60s/70s. The house was decorated at its best on Easter and Christmas with flowers best chinas, cutleries but our icons are the center.
So are you denying Pre Schism Western Saints doesn't sound Orthodox sounds like fundamentalism and extremism shame one you repent not everything has to be for example St Boniface apostle of the Germans is credited with this tree he lived 675-754 pre schism. The Yule tree is completely different as that tree is a log and is burned so it completely different. But I agree that decorating it with icons and keeping it relevant is a must
The Christmas tree is a mixture of Germanic folklore, Norse mythology and Christianity. To Christianize the Germanic people in North-Western and Northern Europe they exchanged and mixed their beliefs. In Norse mythology there is the Yggdrasil, a central and sacred tree, after which the first created human called Askr (ash tree) was named according to Norse mythology (which was probably already borrowed/exchanged from Christian missionaries). The first humans according to “their” mythology are Askr and Embla, which is clearly borrowed from Adam and Eve. The Christmas tree should be seen by us as a type of “Tree of Life” from the Garden of Eden which is Christ Himself, the Bread of Life, the vine, and we are the branches. Any branch which is not in Him is thrown into the fire.
The theory that it came from morality plays is speculative history, so is the idea of it coming from Christians fleeing the fall of Constantinople. The best history, based purely on documented records, puts the origins of the Christmas tree somewhere in Germany as a local custom that became popular over time. The earliest recorded potential evidence for Christmas trees is a 14th century medieval law from, IIRC, the Rhine region of Germany banning the harvesting of firs from the forest in the days leading up to Christmas. Presumably the Feudal lord wasn't happy that his subjects were stealing from his forest every Christmas. It doesn't explicitly say Christmas, but given the time period of the ban the inference is valid, and it doesn't explicitly mention trees so potentially they were only harvesting branches to make wreaths and boughs.
Tbh u being ok with the Christmas tree given it’s Catholic roots (that u r so clearly uncomfortable with) just because (1) a monk thought it beautiful (2) u went to Greece and it’s used there…. Makes no sense u called the Holy Family icon “heretical” based on your scrupulous thoughts which goes against your statement about the disposition of the person matters. If u also consider that most Greeks r using the Holy Family Icon and many monks will call it beautiful will u be ok with it then? It just seems u used more mental gymnastics to be fine with a tree than an innocent icon. I say this with charity as a Catholic Christian
Icons portraying a young Joseph is heretical. That’s the truth because Joseph was old during the incarnation of Christ, it’s not like he had “Just For Men” hair coloring back then… And it is also known that people make mistakes, and are naive to certain truths. It is only when the truth is presented and they don’t correct it is when it is wrong. Sometimes it takes more than once to help people bring them to the Truth and for them to have metanoia. Hope you have a Merry Christmas and may you continue to find the Truth!!
“Catholic”/Papal Protestant roots? Did you listen to the presentation? We cited a few sources saying there are deep roots in Greek culture and then again in the Roman East , and we also have Orthodox Saint in the 9th century…. Moreover, it is wishful thinking and a gross misrepresentation of the presentation with regard to the “holy family icon” to chalk it up to one person scrupulousness.
German tradition because of Saint Boniface felling an oak some Germans were worshiping and using the sapling of a fir tree which is evergreen to speak of eternal life in Christ. This was in the 8th century. Saint Boniface is an Orthodox saint.
Thank you and I will not add anymore to what you've said because orthodox sites have censored or deleted me when I've tried to explain our " sign of the cross," Halloween, or like the word Easter.
@williamedwards2512 I don't think it's Priests or preachers censoring you, it might be TH-cams AI censoring you which happens to almost everyone because "muh feewings"
Even if this is true- but we could argue this because there would be some evidence of its existence as a tradition in the books of our church Fathers or the Bible- the form it has now is something completely different. It's not natural like this" tradition" implies it's usually plastic with plastic or glass ornaments and artificial lights used by merchants to attract buyers. It's part of a hyper materialism ritual. It's so Antichristian that I think it's a terrible mistake to try an appropriate an Antichristian practice. Would we appropriate costume wearing and carnivals ? The only connection is the word Christmas ( which they change too to Xmas no wonder )
this are 2 different st. boniface, the orthodox one is the st.boniface of tarsus who was killed in 304ad and has nothing to do with the anglosaxon one in germany.
@@ariversideview5775 can you provide an evidence from the Bible or our church Fathers that's states the tree with the star and decorations lights etc is a Christian tradition?
I feel like this isn't something that needs to be over analyzed. A a Westerner, it just feels right. The lights, the tree, gathering together to celebrate the birth of Christ as a family and as a parish. Giving icons and holy things as gifts. If we are blessed, snow, with flakes that radiate like lights in the dark sky. All of the traditions, when oriented properly cry out "Glory to God" and radiate "peace on earth and good will to all men".
Yes. It’s as simple as this.
Yes!
The early church NEVER used Christmas trees. It’s first used during the 16th century.
Why would you add something that the ones who celebrated the nativity of Christ in the ancient church never did?
@truthseeker37747 you might want to shut off your utilities then
✝️ ХРИСТОС ВОСКРЕС ❤
✝️🎄⛪️ БОГ ДАЁТ НАМ СИЛУ ✝🙏🌟🕊️
Vaistinu Voskrese
In Serbia we are Christian Orthodox.
We decorate tree for new year but for our Christmas January 7 we still keep old tradition bringing home Oak tree branches. Putting dry straws under table.
Oak tree represents new birth because old one from last year we burn in the fire.
Fire is also very important represents something old is gone and new light is coming like Jesus.
For Saint Nikolas which is Dec.19 we are giving kids some small presents like walnuts
We also have special bread that we bake for Christmas it is called cesnica. But definitely for Serbian Orthodox is most important fasting before Christmas, going to Church on liturgy and Christmas day be with your family.
For Serbian people Uskrs or Ester is more important. We coloring eggs, decorating them and we are braking them on Ester . Eggs also represent new life like Jesus Voskrese
I am actually using a palm tree that I have already in my home. First money is really tight, and I don't have a car to get one. I do not want plastic. The palm tree is beautiful and it reminds me of the triumphal entry. For me it is only for decoration. I will put my little nativity underneath and the presents for the children. What I look forward to the most is the Holy Communion and thanking the Lord. The tree reminds me of the tree in the garden of eden. This is where everything began. My parents put little apples on the tree with beeswax candles when I grew up, it was very beautiful.
Saint Nikolas celebrates at 6th of December
"I am the one who answers your prayers and cares for you. I am like a fir tree that is always green." Hosea 14:8
St Anthony’s monastery has a Christmas Tree in the bookstore.
When I was a young child in Greece I don’t remember having a tree, neither did my young friends, we did have a lit boat though
It was not a thing in Ortodox countries until decade, two ago.
@swatkabombonica4103
Yep, true. Same in Serbian lands. It was not a thing until modern times. It definitely came from the West.
The ROCOR Church in my town celebrates Christmas with a Father Frost gathering for kids. There is nothing wrong enjoying Christmas with some secular things.
Why not a Christmas goat gathering?
@@apo.7898 what does that even mean?
@@vladvlad11299 'Father Frost' is not a christian figure, so a church having a 'Father Frost' gathering is something that can be questioned.
Not necessarily condemned.
But if we have a 'Father Frost' gathering why not a 'Christmas goat' gathering or a Befana gathering? What is the limit?
There is nothing wrong with the Christmas tree it doesn't symbolize anything bad. To me, when you light the lights, it is a symbol of light. It is beauty and light giving. It brings peace and tranquility, and anything that brings peace and love, there is nothing wrong with it. No one worshiped the tree, unlike Santa Claus. Goodness is always goodness. The Christmas tree is one of God's beauty we all love in nature.
It's part of a ritual an ode to materialism ..it's lights are artificial. It can be beautiful and impressive but there is nothing Christian about the tree. In orthodoxy we don't use imagination and symbols. It would have been part of the church decoration. We don't have lights or 5 pointed stars in the church.
What you said is exactly the problem: Nothing about Christ. Just a big emotional distraction from the depth of The Nativity.
@rhondab9792 No one in this world today has any idea what the problem is. It is everyone's hearts being hardened and showing no love,no compassion, or no mercy. You are all failing, and you don't even know,you judge of what you know not of. Anything honoring Jesus the Christ is good. You will have no Christmas tree in your house but condemn the one that does, but they honor him with words and actions, but you who judge and condemn are the ones that truly are sinning. If you can not discern between good and evil, do not judge because you bring condemnation on yourself. Nothing that shows love for Jesus the Christ is evil, but those who think they can stand in judgment of their fellow man those is who condemnation is coming for. Best you do not judge if you know not what you speak of. And the word Christmas stands for what read that again.
@@Barreta72 the way to honour our Lord is by living our lives in the orthodox way and be in communion with Him. Material things won't bring us closer and symbols of materialism as well. The things came to a point with Christmas that it became Xmas 🎄🎁 if you can't see the absence of Christ and the abuse of the wording I can't help with that. I think we ( who won't put up a tree) are not condemning just saying that it's not part of our tradition, and therefore probably we are better off without engaging with this ritual or even decoration. If orthodox people think they are confident enough and will be able to keep the whole thing at a level where it doesn't interfere with the essence of the feast. Then it's fine I have tried it and it doesn't work in my case.
@Barreta72 also why are you so pationately defending a decoration /symbol to the point where you identify yourself with the tree in way because the supposedly "insults" to the tree are equal insults to you ( and everyone who likes and decorates Christmas trees )? Isn't this idolatry?
Thanks God save my soul
We think you for your kindness and generosity!
God help you and give you strength to struggle for the kingdom!
In Serbian orthodox church we use oak tree called badnjak. In my opinion it is much more beautiful than pine tree.
There are two Christmas. There is the true Christmas that celebrates the birth of Christ and a false Christmas which celebrates materialism and secularism.
I feel like the tree is like the cross and wood , and the gifts under it is like Christ
So anybody else catching on to the hilariously puritanical perspective of this channel?
I like Fr. Peter but I agree. This is getting kind of ridiculous. Fussing over the Christmas tree, really? I thought we were Orthodox, not Amish. Lord have mercy.
Santa, Tree, what’s next, the gifts, manjer, and heck, why aren’t we spending time in an empty monastic cell to repent during Christmas instead? 🤷🏼♂️
The Christmas tree represents the garden of Eden
This is clarifying a lot of questions I had
I usually just do a nativity
Great history Father🥰🙏there is a verse in the Old testament that says not to decorate trees trees and bring them in the house
I forgot where
It’s referring to not worship a tree as an idol. If you don’t worship the tree, it’s not an idol.
The Christmas Tree has been integrated into Orthodoxy to the point where even if it was a bad thing, we couldn't just give up on it. The church that I go to has a Christmas Tree inside next to the Altar, went to other churches and saw something similar. In Romania for example most houses have a Christmas Tree, some of them are big and complex, others are really simolistic like a small tree next to the entrace on the house or smtg.
It's inappropriate to put the tree in the church actually. It never was in the churches that's secularisation creeping in.
@kyriakosathanasiadis7970 well, tell that to the bishops of the churches i went to. also what makes you think a christmas tree is secular?
@@vladvlad11299 bishops are humans and can make mistakes. We could raise this concern in a discreet manner and respectfully. Isnt it obvious that's secular it's tied with the Santa and showering of presents ritual. It's all very extravagant and in orthodoxy we are not so "loud" even on feasts. We should strive to mimic monastics and the monastics the angels. But I guess since it is so rooted in the western culture, the only way I could think of appropriating this by having a simple tree that won't draw too much attention. People now are so excess with the tree that they compete for the nicest biggest one, showing off etc that's very secular as well.
🌲🎄🌲
"will Christmas trees send you tel hell???? Stayed tuned to find out!"
I think its objectivly evident theyre okay for use. Put it this way, the light bulb was invented in the west, by a westerner and yet it is used in our eastern churches. The same way the christmas tree tradition is a product of the west in which we incorporate to our tradition. All my argument here is saying is just because something is from the west, doesnt mean its bad or against the orthodox faith simoly because its western. The tree is a product of nature which is a product of God and is beautiful. No one worships nor venerates the tree, its just there completely idle. I see no problem with this. Feel free to correct me if you beleive im wrong.
No, you are not wrong. The simple fact is that this lone ranger Fr Peter Heers hates the West, loathes everything Western. Soon he will attack and decry the use of wristwatches also because chronos is not kairos. It's pathetic..
Christ, the God-man, Himself is the fulfillment of all the good hopes and aspirations of the Celts and Teutons. They knew that trees were indicative of something higher and considered some to be sacred, albeit with a perspective warped by demons. Christ Himself is the Truth who despells all falsehood and showes Himself to be the Tree of Life.
He did state several times in this video that he was just simply presenting the different perspectives & is not necessarily making a case for or against. There's not enough evidence he claims to prove nor disprove the topic. He is stating that these things are just something to consider, etc.
One of main things is not to liken it to the Kabal Tree of Life. They don't believe in our Lord Jesus Christ, only begotten son of God. ☦️
Can I ask of other pagan traditions that have been "baptised" orthodox?
The reality is that in Greece which is a cradle orthodox nation the trees were absent until the 60s/70s. The house was decorated at its best on Easter and Christmas with flowers best chinas, cutleries but our icons are the center.
Doesn’t the tree come from saturnalia?
Also book of Jeremiah 10: 1-5 mentions not to worship like the pagans do
And I have my nativity scene.
💜💙💛❤❤💛💚🤎💚💚
I always do a real tree.
The Greek East and the Slav-Nordic-Russian East kinda divided on this one.
So are you denying Pre Schism Western Saints doesn't sound Orthodox sounds like fundamentalism and extremism shame one you repent not everything has to be for example St Boniface apostle of the Germans is credited with this tree he lived 675-754 pre schism. The Yule tree is completely different as that tree is a log and is burned so it completely different. But I agree that decorating it with icons and keeping it relevant is a must
Most excellent 🎉
The Christmas tree is a mixture of Germanic folklore, Norse mythology and Christianity. To Christianize the Germanic people in North-Western and Northern Europe they exchanged and mixed their beliefs. In Norse mythology there is the Yggdrasil, a central and sacred tree, after which the first created human called Askr (ash tree) was named according to Norse mythology (which was probably already borrowed/exchanged from Christian missionaries). The first humans according to “their” mythology are Askr and Embla, which is clearly borrowed from Adam and Eve. The Christmas tree should be seen by us as a type of “Tree of Life” from the Garden of Eden which is Christ Himself, the Bread of Life, the vine, and we are the branches. Any branch which is not in Him is thrown into the fire.
14
The theory that it came from morality plays is speculative history, so is the idea of it coming from Christians fleeing the fall of Constantinople. The best history, based purely on documented records, puts the origins of the Christmas tree somewhere in Germany as a local custom that became popular over time.
The earliest recorded potential evidence for Christmas trees is a 14th century medieval law from, IIRC, the Rhine region of Germany banning the harvesting of firs from the forest in the days leading up to Christmas. Presumably the Feudal lord wasn't happy that his subjects were stealing from his forest every Christmas. It doesn't explicitly say Christmas, but given the time period of the ban the inference is valid, and it doesn't explicitly mention trees so potentially they were only harvesting branches to make wreaths and boughs.
🎄💬 your beard has some bare spots....
Tbh u being ok with the Christmas tree given it’s Catholic roots (that u r so clearly uncomfortable with) just because (1) a monk thought it beautiful (2) u went to Greece and it’s used there…. Makes no sense
u called the Holy Family icon “heretical” based on your scrupulous thoughts which goes against your statement about the disposition of the person matters.
If u also consider that most Greeks r using the Holy Family Icon and many monks will call it beautiful will u be ok with it then? It just seems u used more mental gymnastics to be fine with a tree than an innocent icon.
I say this with charity as a Catholic Christian
Icons portraying a young Joseph is heretical. That’s the truth because Joseph was old during the incarnation of Christ, it’s not like he had “Just For Men” hair coloring back then…
And it is also known that people make mistakes, and are naive to certain truths. It is only when the truth is presented and they don’t correct it is when it is wrong. Sometimes it takes more than once to help people bring them to the Truth and for them to have metanoia.
Hope you have a Merry Christmas and may you continue to find the Truth!!
you misunderstood why it is heretical. It's based on actual anathemas.❤
“Catholic”/Papal Protestant roots?
Did you listen to the presentation? We cited a few sources saying there are deep roots in Greek culture and then again in the Roman East , and we also have Orthodox Saint in the 9th century….
Moreover, it is wishful thinking and a gross misrepresentation of the presentation with regard to the “holy family icon” to chalk it up to one person scrupulousness.
Which Monk thought it beautiful?….
Sigh…
Something like this is just anecdotal…
It wasn’t core to the presentation.
You're not catholic, your roman papist which is a synonym for heretic.