MYTHBUSTED! Do Intake Mods Work? - Motive Garage Porsche 997.1 C2
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 มี.ค. 2020
- Do intake mods work on a Porsche? We've heard claims from manufacturers and arguments from owners, so, we decided to try for ourselves.
Please keep in mind this was on a 3.6L 997 Carrera C2. Other engines will respond differently. Also, watch until the end to understand all of the data.
***The test was done in Mainline Dynos head office. The dyno room has a suction fan and front fan, simulating over 200km/h in the dyno cell. We also had a secondary large fan blowing across the deck lid from the side to ensure the intake received as much ambient air as possible.
Get your Motive Video merchandise here: motive.bigcartel.com/
Get the GT-R parts we recommend here: gtrhub.bigcartel.com/
Follow us on Facebook: / motivevideo
Follow us on Instagram: / motive_video
Motive Video creates content on modified performance cars, focussing on Japanese cars, but also European and hi-tech V8s. We build project cars, showcasing the development and testing, as well as attend various events around the world. Our videos include:
- Project Cars
- Technical Features
- Event Coverage
- Car Features
Providing high level and accurate technical knowledge, data and education is our core mission statement, as well as showcasing the best events, cars, workshops, companies and parts the performance car scene has to offer.
We also run our own private events including:
- GT-R Challenge: motivedvd.com/motive/drag_batt...
- Drag Battle: motivedvd.com/motive/drag_batt...
- Ultimate Street Car: motivedvd.com/motive/ultimate-...
- Runway Thrash: motivedvd.com/motive/runway-th...
- GT-R Festival: motivedvd.com/motive/gt-r-fest...
- Japanese Car Festival: japanesecarfestival.bigcartel...
These unique events not only help showcase some of the best cars and workshops on the planet, but gives us exclusive content you can only see on Motive Video.
We also regular work with other large TH-cam Channels including:
Mighty Car Mods: / mightycarmods
Hoonigan: / thehoonigans
AdamLZ: / lzbmx
1320 Video: / 1320video
Cleetus McFarland: / garrettmitch
That Racing Channel: / thatracingchannel
DSport: / dsportmag
Fullboost: / @fullboost
#porsche
#mythbusted
#projectcars
#motorsport
#turbocharger
#skylinegtr
#gtr
#dragracing
#timeattack
#drifting - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
You mean Porsche engineers don’t know more than K&N? Impossible.
They didn't make more power because they didn't put the K&N sticker on the rear window!
@@Poorschedriver Yeah, it is a given that when you put that K&N sticker you get extra horsepowers!
Porsche engineers obviously should know, but they work within regulations. K&N and BMC filters allow more air or more oxygen to come through hence improving power. But it will also emitted more carbon as more is burned. Therefore aftermarket filters will improve power won’t damage your car but it may damage the environment a bit more.
@@waqarghulam3548 introducing MORE air isn’t always enough. When you introduce hotter air-you will pay a price.
@@Edgy01 yes it’s not enough but the computer will balance the mixture by increasing or reducing fuel. Did I mention hot air?
If you want more power out of that engine from the intake side you're going to have to resort to some serious antics with variable length intake runners and/or cam magic. Porsche is a ruthless competitor in the high end market who leaves no stone unturned. If you come up with something to make more power from that engine it will come at a cost Porsche wasn't ready to pay (crappy emissions, premature engine wear, questionable reliability, etc).
What an excellent scientific approach - probably the best example of removing other variables (no doubt because of a critical Aussie crowd!). Love the research - you’re probably saving hapless Porsche owners (and enthusiasts) lots of money - who are already vulnerable to marketing... Keep it up!
And some people just love throwing parts at it even with no performance change.
They’ve done all good except the fact they didn’t have enough air on dyno without side vents...I work for a tuning company and I can make you sure that with the IPD you have big gains with proper air flow
@@lucazanoni9168 the simple panel filter gained power though
By doing a VR remap/flash tune w/ mods(and having a pair of fans simulating running down the road) could see over 33whp
I've done similar tests, many, many times, whilst doing live mapping on the dyno and I too have yet to find an intake any measurable amount better than the stock setup. It's a shame that you didn't test a NEW stock air filter element as well, because you'd probably have found that the K&N panel is virtually no better than a clean stock filter, which is also MUCH better at stopping dirt than a cotton/gauze filter.
The IPD in particular normally LOSES power just after the point where the resonance flap opens, and I know that this is because the 'divider' in the throttle T gets in the way of lateral wave propagation. (I know because I've previously chopped it out and re-tested it).
The big problem is that people WANT to believe that there's some easy, bolt on power to be gained, but there just isn't.
I can imagine those companies would be a bit upset with your findings.
jigglerish we were upset too: we wanted more power and better noise
@@MotiveVideo bloody awesome work on putting this into a video for everyone tho, even if we have no interest in porchers its still great to watch! cheers
People bullshit to sell their crap. Never buy anything without independent hard data like this!! Well done guys!
You can check out Banks Performance, and them testing rear diff covers and how crap they actually were compared to OEM lmao. And then, Banks designing and making better ones because they bothered to science the why and how.
This isn't the first video I have seen that proves how awful and over rated the IPD Plenum is. At this point I am surprised no one has sued them for false claims.
Great video - easy to understand, lots of effort into making the tests consistent, and MOST important of all: honesty in your findings. Great to see a channel not being swayed by manufacturers! 👏 👌
Greetings from the States. I love your videos like this. Super informative and the average person can understand what is going on with the way you explain it. Thank you. Cheers!
Would be great if you could do an Xpipe vs crossover pipes when doing your exhaust mods and test the same way you did the intakes. These things are super expensive and people have to trust the manufacturers when it seems often their claims are not accurate.
Good old school mod and dyno video. I love it.
Great in depth, real world analysis as always Andrew. I personally don't care much for that Porsche but your ability to examine, test, and explain makes your videos worth watching.
Great video mate. Very interesting to see a nice unbiased review of those parts, and good to see you driving and enjoying the car in the way it was intended.
13:14
Is that Benny in the Cresta?
Great vid btw.
Thank you from Germany! A super useful and above all realistic & honest overview/test!
I'd love to see the Dyno again after the ECU has had the time and miles to re learn the IPD plenum
It's really not going to learn 5 horses at WOT peak power of the camshaft
The DME learning just brings minor gains in efficiency, milage, throttle response and maybe a bit of midrange
So glad you’ve done this video. Manufacturers of these products do make some very surprising and appealing. Laine of gains, but very little people actually do back to back tests.
I had a 996 Carrera 2 with IPD GT3 body plus the air box mod and it made less than standard, so I’m not surprised by your results either.
Can't thank you enough for doing this video. It's exactly what I needed to see. Wish there were more performance mod videos where they change one thing at a time and verify results with the dyno. I was about to pull the trigger on $2K worth of intake mods that are worthless/degrading to performance.
Appreciate the honest review of DIY mods for the 911, great information
Absolutely brilliant video, can't wait for the updates, well done
Really nice to see this kind of thing done properly: you hate to see comparison videos / articles where things are just thrown on and horsepower numbers are read off and that's it. Always funny when people are testing their stock stuff mid-day and then testing their aftermarket stuff at night after they've finished their installations... like yeah, air temperature / density altitude are a thing.
My take after having one of Fabspeed's carbon Y-shaped dual-cone airbox replacements? At low rpm (which you obviously have to deal with every time you start the car moving during normal driving) the engine never ran as sweetly / throttle response felt degraded. I'm sure power was down by a measurable amount purely as a result of the intake air temperature being elevated due to engine drawing air from inside the engine compartment. The sound of that intake was absolutely manic and I loved it and kept the pipe in the car for several years purely because I enjoyed the sound-- the car is already fast enough that you can't really push it too hard on public roads anyway. However, after driving the car for a few years with the aftermarket intake, I had to install the factory airbox again to pass an emissions test (I know: ridiculous, but that's how California laws are now-- you can't have any aftermarket equipment that's not state-approved. They don't even measure emissions output: they'll just fail you immediately for having undocumented equipment), and the engine / throttle response for daily driving stuff was just noticeably better with the stock airbox, so I've left it on and foregone my lovely noise.
At some point I'll get off my lazy arse and go pick up a rubber cap to bypass the resonator: I know it won't sound as good as the carbon tube, but I figure an improved sound and factory performance is probably the correct happy medium. I would not install any airbox on this car in the future that doesn't seal against the decklid. There are only a couple of boxes that do this that I've been able to find: one was a Porsche factory upgrade (part of the X51 power kit iirc), and there was one aftermarket company that seemed to do a carbon, sealing, dual-panel-filter solution that probably works well. Both of them were many thousands of dollars: not worth it IMO. Better off saving up and buying a GT3 than sinking money into attempting to hot up a regular Carrera, I think.
A very methodological approach. Busting myths for sure. Going to try n find you exhaust findings vid next. Regards
Superb video, many thanks from Hamburg, Germany!
Love the brutal honesty mate! It makes sense that it would loose power, I would like to know the difference in surface area of both filters, I feel like the factory filter might have even had more area.
I have owned several naturally aspirated Porsche 911’s & Boxsters. The only things I have found to work are
1. Panel filter
2. Any exhaust combination but best results were headers and cats, not necessarily the rear boxes.
3. A custom remap - Revo worked they best in most cases.
These mods together transformed the car. When you say you didn’t notice any difference, it’s like driving a different car when you get it right.
Happy Porsche driving
This is exactly why I snicker every time one of my buddies say he’s goin to replace the intake system on his car. You go right ahead Bud, I’ll just enjoy my Porsche while you deal with possible engine intake codes, downtime, heat soak & the same or less HP. If you want a easy way to make your Porsche faster, just tune the nut behind the wheel.
We tune that nut regularly. check out our Rallypsrint videos in our WRX
Really well done video, thumbs up!
this is actually common in NA cars, for example the Honda S2000 cold box air kit, removes 20 to 40 HP :D, amazing stuff!
Great video, Nice to see such a thorough approach...
Great video guys, with regards to your exhaust video could you compare straight CATS with a X-pipe CAT setup? Also it would be great to include torque figures as well as BHP. Thanks
Thank you, thank you for cutting through the gimmick and the fog! This will save me a lot of time and money from pursuing negative to zero HP gain.
Andrew.. i swear it. When you explain things.. i totally understand it to T. Man that last suspension video fair enough he went into technical details but here and there i couldnt pick it up! Selective hearing much!! Lol
Awesome work. Appreciate the scientific approach.
Love the scientific approach! Please do 992 video!
Thanks for the information. This was very helpful
Damn. This is mind blowing. All these expensive mods doing nothing. Guess you’re not going to beat decades of German engineering.
It has always been like that on NA cars.. if you want power gains you need a turbo car.. dial a boost and pray it don't kaboom on ya
Another ‘05 997.1 owner here, great video and test. Your stock filter didn’t look that dirty but wonder if had put a fresh OEM style filter if the variance between it and the K&N would have been less.
Thank you Motive!! This is such an awesome video for people looking onto modification. All these websites showing misinformation advertisement. 30 hp for plenum 😂
Hello everybody.
I currently own a 997.1 Carrera S with 355 hp.
When I measured her on the dyno she made 329 hp (more or less all the 997.1 3.8 Carreras produce around 328-330 hp at the dyno and not 355 as factory announces.
Talked with people from IPD plenum and proposed me the 74 mm IPD plenum and Throttle Body as a first stage tuning step and the 82 mm Throttle body with the 82 mm Plenum as the ultimate, better step for extreme hp and torque gains. I bought all of them and tried them at the same dyno, the very same day and the car produced 335-340 hp with the IPD 74 mm TB and plenum and only 306 hp with the 82 mm TB and plenum. The serious dropdown came probably from the larger diameter of the TB and the plenum due to the diminished velocity of the incoming air. The car every time I changed the TB and plenum with the original (for 997.1 Carrera S IPD 74 mm TB and Plenum) produced more power and torque. We tried several times even with all possible combinations (74 mm TB and 82 mm Plenum, 82 mm TB and 74 mm Plenum etc) but the car kept losing power every time the wider TB or Plenum was used. We also tried with ecu reflash and actual “fine tuning”, made many pulls on the dyno but we were not able to gain power from the wider series of iPD TB and Plenum. Finally I kept the 74 mm IPD TB and Plenum and sold the wider ones. When I mailed, showed all the dyno pulls and the bad results at IPD, unfortunately I never got an answer why my car kept losing power with the wider TB and Plenum.
I would appreciate if you have any dyno results before and after the use of 82 mm TB and Plenum and if you would agree to show them to us.
Thank you
the 355 is the crank hp number
Well done to take the time and break it down
Subscribed , excellent content 👍🏻
i really liked that, it watched a video i saw about Honda's and trying different things and changing the airbox reduces power, but just being sure the airfilter is clean or adding a new K+N filter added a small bump. I look forward to seeing the exhaust results, good job.
Great video and information,I would like to see those results with a 997.1 turbo.
Love this video, proves the point I've made for ages. Porsche know what they're bloody doing so why fiddle with immaculate engineering. Just pop in a reusable K&N filter so you don't have to buy the expensive replacement Porsche filters every service and Roberts your mother's brother. 4.5hp is a nice little bump from what is effectively a preventative maintenance part.
Great video as always guys. Thanks for now incorporating European into the mix. Best of both worlds 👍
Well done. There is a lot of people who exchange money for fantasy and these tests were done well.
My 3.4 has the original airbox and blanked off the resonator. The original muffler boxes were modified with the Gundo bypass. Sounds amazing but no measurable change in power.
The best way to get a 996 or 997 to boogie is by removing weight. They are 1300kg with driver and with some imaginative use of lighter accessories (muffler boxes, rear seats, some sound deadening, carpet, lightweight sway bars and drop links) they are down in the high 11’s mid 12’s. Keep up the good work.
Great content guys! You did what you could, backed up by data logging and using the best dyno with the most consistent ambient temperatures
It is what it is :)
Cheers from Portugal!
Love this types of videos.
Great content fantastic to watch
Great series!
Well done sir. Thanks for this info.
Loving this type of content. I guess I will know what will and won't work when I buy my 997 carrera 4s. Looking forward to seeing the final results with the exhaust mods
Great video!
what a brilliant video you've earned a new sub
I can’t wait for Part 2 of this series! Come on get it posted. :) please.
It seems that maybe we all need to start with an exhaust mod first, then work our way back.
I’ve installed the underdrive pulley and will say that near the top end is noticeable. But not all the time, heat soaked engines are the 911s worst enemy. Being in the back of the car doesn’t help when driving in stop and go traffic (daily driving).
Oh well good luck. Hopefully you can come up with a solution for us, besides saying go buy yourself a Turbo hahaha.
Great testing
Underrated channel
Great test, just what I was looking for! Saved me a grand from buying the IPD plenum.
I was considering buying it to but now have doubts
Thanks a lot guys, this helped me a lot. Was about to buy IPD upgrade for my 996 C4S in hope of some hp gain, but these tests just saved me bunch of money, so thanks once again. Best way to gain power in N/A car is by weight saving, take out everything you don't need - problem with the Porsche though is that it is pretty difficult to maintain that perfect weight balance because most of the weight that can be removed is in the front.
Not surprised at all! Aftermarket parts often make more noise and give the perception of more power simply due to auditory feed back.
Even if after some trouble shooting and tuning one can gain 10-15 horses, that does not justify the time and cost for those small gains.
Thank you for the excellent work!
Great testing mate. I had a BMW years ago and tried an experiment with the airbox "complete with original paper filter". It only had a 1 1/2" pipe connected to it, which went into the inner wing. I took the airbox out cut the hole out to 3" and fitted a flexible 3" hose which ran to an scoop behind the mesh of the front bumper .To be honest thought it might make a bit of difference, not much, perhaps at higher speed when more air was pushed in. Took it for a test ride and immediately felt the difference just pulling out of the garage, was very responsive and felt like a different car on the road and pulled much harder than before. Apart from having a remap it was the most noticeable cheap mod I have ever done. Was wondering if you could either add a secondary intake pipe to the existing airbox or a much larger one to double the amount of air going to the airbox.
That was an honest review of what these aftermarkets claim to produce to what they ACTUALLY produce. Which is an empty wallet with no noticeable gain in performance. Well done!
Good review, owning a 996 C2 and have done the very common gundo hack I'm curious if that or headers makes any difference.
This has been the standard discussion on Porsche forums for a decade or more (when did the IPD plenums come out?). The more reality-based people always claimed that they'd like to see a dyno test from IPD or at least with an IPD. This is the first time I've seen such a test. THANK YOU! I'm actually surprised that the K&N filter provided an improvement - though I'll stick to a paper filter and not deal with MAF issues.
Now you need to do a test with other mods (such as exhaust, remap) to actually try to move more air through the engine. I can easily imagine that the larger throttle body will provide power at some point - but that the IPD plenum makes no difference. While I have always thought that it looks like the IPD could do something (the wedge splitter - not the dimples), if it'd been that easy, Porsche would have done it from the factory.
Thanks again! (and now do a 996/7 turbo :-p )
IF we could afford a 997 turbo we would! We have lots more intake and exhaust tests lined up
This video just made me subscribe, job well done. You did everything possible and more to try show a clear picture and people can see that you wanted a good result. Can't find many people nor companies that will try their best to find the truth whatever it may be. Usually its just 2 camps, "we got this for free so we have to say its great" or "I want more clicks so I will try shit on some companies since people love drama".
THANK YOU! keeping my Porsche stock!
Was considering the IPD and GT3 throttle body myself, but if the airintake at 74mm is used on a 3.8 Then it cant be restricting a 3.4 cayman!
I like how the controled group is very controlled, finally see a mod video with real science to it
Brilliant, those daft hot air intakes like k&n have always bugged me. I took the resonator our of my airbox, then after reading dyno tests put it back in.
Advertised as cold air intakes as well. That only works if you can get cold air in, not an issue in front engine cars. K&N roof scoop anyone?
I’m telling you now - when you take that air box off in the future - don’t break the oil fill tube - such a pain in the arze to change - that alternator is the worst to take out - top video !!!
Great vid. I'd like to see some info on tuning the factory ecu.
Kevin Carter we’re trying. No one can help us with software to tune it. It’s all pre made maps to flash in
FWIW my 996.1 has IPD plenum, gt3 throttle body, k&n intake and Gundo hack mufflers. It pulls on a stock 996.1. There has been an on-road test tapping into air intake temps and maf readings that demonstrate that there is an improvement over stock. My guess is sitting still on a dyno just doesn’t get proper cool air airflow to the intake.
Thanks for using a strict engineering approach. It comes to the same conclusions that I have had for years. As a Porsche customer for nearly fifty years, I know that they have an extremely good engineering staff. They rarely leave low hanging fruit. I can’t tell you how many K&H filter kits have been misrepresented as a ‘cold air kit’ but common sense suggests that when you suck air off the top of an engine compartment-not ram air like the stock configuration, the warmer air entering the engine will pay no dividends.
Good scientific approach. 👍
Its time whip up that twin turbo kit brother! Mate its guys like you that we got to show the world Australia we dont play around when it comes to making power and understanding HOW TO make power!!
I'd put a manometer on the intake just before the throttle. If the factory doesn't have more than 10" of water vacuum at full power you're gonna be hard pressed to get gains.
I'd also put an airflow meter in it. Toyota and subaru ones can be adapted to any pipe size and you can log voltage out. This will create a slight restriction but can then be used to measure airflow increases *after* the point of measurement like that T-piece that looked like it wasn't sure if it was dividing airflow or allowing resonance between the plenums or not.
Also, do backpressure measurements, because no one ever does those and i need more data points to judge modified cars on
This is really a good vdo....subbed...
8:13
Andrew: It is what it is
Me: IT ISSS WHAT IT ISSSSS
it izz what it izzz
If you get a chance...test the old intake with the resonator back in place. In several different cars i see a dullness in response and sometimes down smidge of power. To the point where Im building helmholtz resonators in my custom intakes now
Great job. I just wish your first dyno run was with a clean air filter, that one was filthy. My experience is that the stock non oiled filters are best. I always notice a power increase or at least smoother running engine after replacing the air filter. The oil film air filters dirty up the intake air sensors and tend to cause issues down the track.
Thank you guys for saving me money, after this video I’m not buying ipd pipe and gt3 throttle body 👍
Good stuff!
I own a 996 and having tried most of the stuff you did in this video, I can confirm my findings were the same (butt dyno only) not scientific, but the best thing I found for the 996 was fitting the 997 air box, which confirms my suspicion the 997 3.6/3.8 air box is flowing all the air you could need for these engines.
James Healey thanks for the feedback. It was our opinion as well. If the 3.8 uses it then it’s enough for the 3.6
Great video. I’ve never been impressed by K&N cold air intakes that sit in the engine bay. Seems like a great idea, but they heat-soak. It does change the engine note quite a bit, I agree the sound has a low growl. It’s hard to improve on the factory airbox.
Richard Harvey I know a 350Z isn’t a 911, but this is the same reason I left the stock air box with a drop in filter. We only change filters on bikes too because the Manufacturers do so much R&D to get them right out of the box.
Porsche must have put a lot of thought into air delivery for the Carrera, being as it doesn’t have the vents of the Turbo, Cayman & Boxster. Logically sticking with the deck lid only delivery they must have got it right, otherwise why not have the side vent direct feed?
I'm still not convinced the IPD plenum doesn't make any difference..... wish there was more thorough analysis with ECU, but great you have made this comparison, so much debate about this on forums.
awesome video, super factual. as a 996 owner looking for intakes this changed my view entirely.. although I would love to try and chase that gt3 sound, hmm. maybe with a tune then?
You can just put one of those hard-tube intakes on and it will sound fantastic. I had the Fabspeed one installed for several years and it sounded phenomenal. The car seems faster when it sounds that horny, but just be prepared for it to actually lose some power, to run hotter, and (in my case anyway) for the low-rpm throttle response to feel degraded. If you're just chasing sound, though, it really delivers.
good job
If the 3.6 uses the same intake as the 3.8 your probably right that it flows enough!
You've really stepped into it with this one haha! Can't wait for the manufacturer's of these aftermarket parts to start commenting (privately) to you, LOL!
Apparently there is something wrong with our car according to some.
can you please also do a review on the TorqAmp electric turbo kit on this car?
Those are thr best videos r&d
Motive, can you make a video on a stock STI and the difference between 2.5 and 3.0 downpipe, many people say that the 3.0 is better, but without any actual data
Well done. I work on these cars for a living and cringe every time someone suggests they add any of these kits. I do a bit of explaining and then tell them if they still want to do it I'll take their money both to put it on and take it back off when they realize its not as great as they were told.
Brilliant!
Very interesting. I have a 987 Cayman S which I fitted an IPD plenum to with the standard 74mm throttle body the car came with.The exhaust is a Carnewal GT setup. When fitted, I instantly noticed an increase in torque with my 'ass dyno' and the throttle felt much more responsive too. My car has Sport Chrono and the 'normal' setting suddenly felt closer to the original sport setting, while sport setting moved on a couple of notches. I've just acquired a 996 C2 and I am now slightly wary of repeating this mod if it doesn't work on all the models. Does anyone have experience of the IPD on a cable throttle 996?
IPD says you need 5 to 50 miles for the ECU to adjust to the new air inlet. Please re-test so we can know if thats true.
Watch the whole video....they did drive it for 2 weeks, no change.
IMO the loss in power was the K&N intake pipe MAF housing caused it to overread the airflow, higher airflow reading = more fuel and less timing = less power. In addition to the higher IATs.
I am wondering if K&N over-oiled the filter at their factory? My friend installed K&N filters on his motorcycle and the engine began to run too rich. After many carb adjustments, he finally found out that the K&Ns had too much oil in the fibers! Washing the factory oil out of the filters and re-oiling (lightly) the engine finally ran as it should.
good job...
*I just did an ECU tune on my 2014 GT3 by VR Tuning.*
Great video, great analysis. Not surprised the K&N intake system cost hp since it can draw hot air from the engine compartment and your test results showed that. A little surprised by no gains from the IPD system, not even a bit more torque. Have heard they work best with tunes from companies like Softronic, which is plausible since they can throw more fuel into the equation along with the IPD's extra air. Would never use or recommend a K&N style filter. Too much goo and you coat the MAF causing a CEL. Too little goo (or failing to regularly maintain it) and you're letting gobs of dirt into your engine. Porsches are not small block Chevies - add a few mods to an SBC and it unleashes more hp. Not so with Porsche. Want more Porsche hp? Buy an S, a GTS, or a turbo.
Interresting stuff
I've added this K&N cold air intake and Borla headers and mufflers to my 997.1 S. My next step was to be the 3.8 liter IPD plenum. Do you think that the intake and plenum have a better chance of adding performance since I've opened up the exhaust system? I'm also thinking of tuning the ECU but haven't decided which product to use.
Was that MCM Cresta in the left lane...? :))