Grand Seiko can beat Omega on two very important areas, accuracy and innovation. Spring drive is one of the greatest innovations in horology and it's accuracy is second to none.
Everything else aside: I've been to almost every major watch boutique in London and the level of attention, luxury, and service in the GS boutique in comparison to everything else was remarkable. I own an Omega, but the experience of just BROWSING at the GS boutique makes me want to buy that as my next watch.
Absolutely love your videos, especially these involving debate of two notable brands - an active discussion about popular icons in Omega and Grand Seiko is great, and I appreciate points on both sides of the table 👍
I've tried hard to love GS and am completely open-minded to them, but like many others here the aesthetics of their watches just don't appeal to me. And I completely respect the quality of their watches - I'm just waiting for them to take that craftsmanship and produce a model that I can't resist! Omega, on the other hand, has many references I'd love to own.
I completely agree with this. I’ve looked at loads of grand seikos and tried them on. I went to the GS boutique in Knightsbridge, London and spent 2 hours trying on everything. Nothing really made me think ‘yes this is the one’. Omega have many iconic timepieces and their newest sector dial is fabulous, blows the omiwatari out of the water. GS vs Omega? No chance Seiko va omega? Different proposal
I agree with the Rolex impressing others...but Omega? While it's my favorite luxury watch brand and is leaps and bounds ahead of Rolex as a watchmaker (IMO) most people won't spot an omega or give a shit. Everyone knows Rolex and pitches pants tents. I'll stick to my Omega.
Good or bad, grand Seiko is like the Lexus of watches. They showed they can compete with the swiss but there’s always something small missing when it comes to a wearing/driving experience. I’ve owned both brands and I always come up with the same , slightly disappointed feeling after trying so hard to love it. If I had to choose it’s omega
GS and Omega are my favorite two brands, and own both. I'd take a slightly different tack and say it's apples and oranges, both having their place and complementing each other extraordinarily in a collection. GS makes astounding dress watches and dressy GADAs that are just head and shoulders above anything this side of holy trinity particularly in their level of hand craftsmanship (dials, dial furniture, zaratsu finishing). That's not Omegas thing at all. Omega makes some of the GOAT sport watches, mass produced, go to the moon or the Mariana Trench, or for that matter the Olympics. GS will never catch Omega's legacy in sports in a hundred years, and Omega could never devote the time and energy to even touch GS quality without seriously repositioning themselves, which they have no reason to do. So on my wrist, it's SMP300 for a daily sports watch, GS SGBA201 for just a ridiculously classy dress GADA. Great video and thoroughly enjoyed this discussion!
Maybe it’s the name. But I could never see myself choosing a GS over an Omega. I’ve also just always been wanted a speedy and a sea master so that might Also have something to do with it.
I'm the same. I think some of their dials look amazing but they change their models every 6 months and resale value is horrific if you want to trade in / swap out. You will always be able to sell a speedmaster or seamaster without getting completely hosed in your investment.
@@Weakeyedominant Yes I agree I don't like when they change styles so quickly. Pick one style and stick with it so it becomes iconic ✨ Breitling is another brand that's constantly changing the Super ocean way to often
I visited my local design district with all the watch shops and I was so ready to go with GS. But when I got to the store and put them on the watches felt kinda flat, also I guess the rep wasn't as enthusiastic and, side note, no financing option. When I got to Omega the reps really walked me through everything made me fall in love with the speedmaster and aqua terra.
Sorry to hear you had that experience. Personally, I've never been to a GS boutique or AD where the sales associates weren't enthusiastic and ready to go into all the nitty gritty on a dime.
@kieran finney then you haven't seen enough models. They haven't had a primarily polished case in the heritage line since the Snowflake. And the Evo9 line is primarily brushed. Bracelets also vastly improved and super comfortable in the Evo9 line.
@kieran finney their marketing is really muddy, true, and their bracelets aren't at Rolex quality (then again, no one's really are), but I definitely wouldn't say the cases have no life to them. Hell, in my collection of 5 or so luxury pieces, they're the only ones where the case finishing and execution REALLY pops every time for me, and that's despite owning two Cartiers with beautiful shapes of their own.
If we're talking Omega "Ed White" Cal 321... then it's Omega 100% .... if we're talking the usual ETA based Coaxial Omega vs GS.... then it's a toss up... I have a top of the line GS Hi-Beat White Birch, and white beautiful to look it... it runs 25+ seconds fast a day and even after sending into GS, still runs fast.. So overall, I'd have to give it to Omega.. but specially their higher end production pieces..
GS is pricing themselves out of the market with the new evolution line. Rolex datejust / OP prices but marginally better than their classic models and not superior to many Omegas at half the price.
Very interesting debate. I always had my eye on an Omega but when push came to shove I opted for a GS primarily because of the technology and the finishing. It threaded the needle between dress and casual for me. I do like that Globemaster and it may make a perfect addition to my two watch collection and I would have a complete three watch collection.
I bought my wife a Tudor Royal recently, and she was with me the whole time when we were looking for her first mechanical entry level luxury watch. I asked her if she might be interested in a Grand Seiko for ladies, she literally said "Why would I go for a Seiko if I want a luxury piece?"... I am giving this as an example to show that people who know about Omega and Grand Seiko know their shit, but Grand Seiko is still an unknown brand for people who don't know about high end luxury watches. With this being said, I think that Seiko is Grand Seiko's monkey on the back, however, with good advertising strategies (because obviously they already have the good build quality and heritage) Grand Seiko might beat Omega and even some more similar luxury watch brands.
They basically have to stop making regular seikos. Swap to one of their other sub brands. Orient. Brightz astron prospeX what ever. Just stop sticking seiko on all their lines. Can you imagine if there's a little swatch badge on all omegas 5k watches? It would kill their sales dead
I would argue both sides of this point… GS was my first watch and I LOVED it, but I eventually sold it for an omega which I still wear. All points are valid 🤷🏻♂️
When I first got into watches, I didn't pay GS any attention. I just thought they were very sporty high end Seikos. Now I've learnt more and explored their elegance line, I think they are producing the best looking dress watches, definitely at their price point, and maybe beating some brands at a much higher price point.
I think GS can make itself more desirable to the mass market by going around them and positioning themselves as a high horology brand with watches like their constant force tourbillon. I do think they could use some changes in their design language but if you can appeal to a certain segment at the top others will follow and try to emulate their style. Personally I love GS but prefer Omega as brand because of their variety, history, and “classic” quality-but at the end of the day most GS models simply don’t resonate with me and give me that tingly feeling inside that makes me want to buy a watch.
I love my Grand Seiko. For me looking down at it nearly takes my breath away how beautiful and intricate it is. BUT, I've seen myself in pictures with it, and from any other perspective besides up close it looks like a very generic, plain watch. I cant put my finger on exactly what it is. It could be some subtle elements of Japanese design vs Swiss that just haven't caught on yet. Either way I love it. Especially with Seiko in the name. It is a watch that doesn't shout "look at how much money I have." It under promises and over delivers. Nobody is going to mug you for your Grand Seiko or think you are flexing, but anybody who is paying attention can't help but be impressed.
I feel like Japanese luxury cars are the same. They need to over deliver to compete with the established European luxury. The Japanese brands are bang for their buck in a way and very well built and they have their fan base and are well respected with enthusiasts. I like GS and I like Omega.
GS makes too many great watches.. smaller tighter catalog (the rolex model) would promote more interest and recognizable models. People who are new to the brand can get lost in a decision and in the meantime purchase a speedy (guilty). I agree they need work on the sports line. Would love to see another SE watch like the Godzilla maybe samurai or Japanese sword related. Thanks for the great video.
Maybe it's because I've lived in Japan for a long time, but Grand Seiko's styling doesn't really excite me. My doctor wears a Grand Seiko, and it's not because he's a watch guy. It's just the watch to wear for a doctor here. GS knows this market segment well, and they're mostly older and don't do sports watches. I hope that GS's popularity overseas pulls their marketing department to be a littler more daring.
Grand Seiko is one of the most frustrating watch companies. Regarding their lack of adjustments on their bracelets, I had the SBGN003 and I could not get a good/decent fit and I've tried all variations with the 2 half-links provided. Perhaps a 3rd half-link would have done it but I shouldn't have to go out of my way to buy a 3rd one. I want to like their watches. The fit and finish rivals the best, but the ability to wear their watches fall short. Their automatics (especially GMT's) are too thick and too large. The ones with micro-adjustments that I can recall are some GMT's and of course their divers but they're huge and thick. Who are they catering to?
One of the things that I have always admired about Grand Seiko is the no compromise type of attitude that they have. It is the type of mindset that delivers amazing product at the relatively acceptable price. The mindset that the Japanese have towards creating product is one of the many things I admire from them and I am always astounded by the level of details that they do towards their products at Grand Seiko.
1/3 (No side): I think it's hard for Grand Seiko to compete with the hearts of watch lovers mostly because of itself, seiko. You could make the argument that Seiko itself is equal to or more prominent in the hearts of watch nerds. You start divvying up Seiko, Seiko 5, Seiko Prospex, King Seiko, Grand Seiko and it's just too confusing. How can Grand Seiko compete with Omega if it's too busy competing with itself?
I get my love of Omega from my father who passed down a Goldeneye era Seamaster 300m. However, I have purchased 2 Grand Seikos (1 hi-beat, 1 Spring Drive) and have yet to purchase an Omega for myself. Let's talk about it.
I'm going with both... currently own the Grand Seiko Tentagraph and Snowflake. Planning on buying the Omiwatari as well. But my next watch will be the Omega Speedmaster Moon Phase Sedna Gold (brown strap) version. Then it'll be a Rolex Diver of some sort... Then a holy trinity grail watxh like Audemars Piguet Royal Oak... Oh... and I have a selection of G-Shock MRG watches which I also love 😊❤ 🇬🇧
No way GS beats Omega. Omega designs traditionally have a universal appeal and they are willing to adapt their styling to stay current. Grand Seikos design language is awkward to many and it appears they are going down the Rolex path of “our way or the highway” in regards to constrained singular design. Make no mistake, GS design is not on par with an Oyster so taking a hardline approach will likely continue to alienate certain buyers. There is no doubt GS will continue to be successful but not to Omega levels. Neither stand a chance against Rolex. At the end of the day we buy watches with designs that speak to us and great fit/finishing can’t override that. FTR I’m not a big fan of Omega but absolutely understand their appeal.
Just got my first GS, a 9F quartz. My Longines VHP now seems so inferior to it I can't believe I ever wore it. If GS figures out some marketing and releases some attainable sports watches they'll get massive.
I agree. Seiko can make good sport watches. Seiko got the SKX, Alpinist, Arnie, King Turtle, the Tuna, the Monster. Just make a GS version of the Alpinist and it will do extremely well.
F9 is a good movement it can be serviced you can get it serviced and it will last a life time. It is a long interval too like 20 years. Super accurate as well and quartz made Seiko what it is so it also a bit of history with it too.
I have been the biggest fan of your channel . Keep killing it with the oxfords and chubbies . You really got me addicted to watches and I recently just purchased a 1998 birthday speedy . Completely in love with it . Thank you for all the videos and love . NH
Now that is an interesting idea! GS gaining market share by going straight at each Swiss brand’s undisputed heavyweight. A Speedmaster alternative that is a better value, a submariner alternative that is actually available for purchase, etc etc.
Fascinating that y'all think GS is having a slow year, feels like one of their hottest years in terms of pace in a while. Kodo, a new wide appealing set of GMTs, their best diver yet, their best sports chrono yet, new Whirlpool, new Peacock, Spring Drive and titanium variations of the White Birch, and a bunch of other standard 9S8 releases. VERY strong and steady stream so far.
Thx for that. But that does play into Christian’s point about marketing - how are they getting the word out? I watch 20+ TH-cam watch videos a week - never heard of any of these new drops.
@@WestCoastAce27 that's less because of GS and more because TH-camrs just over focused on Rolex LHD and Tudor BBPro during W&W for clicks lol. The GMTs and Divers were on Hodinkee front page at W&W first day, it was covered on other publications, and it was a headliner of GS's own content next to the Kodo. Spring Drive White Birch was waitlisted for almost the first half of the year too. I still haven't been able to see a Black Birch in person. New Whirlpool and Peacock, however, were explicitly kept pretty quiet. Announced at a GS owner's event, quietly showed up on the online boutique, sold out everywhere in the first hour or two because they're super limited and special ones. Those models at this point are explicitly made to appeal to existing collectors and secondhand value because those are NUTS watches lol.
Omega was my first luxury watch and that emotional attachment is far too strong for me. That being said, experiencing Grand Seiko's in person is incredible. Not just the intricacy of the dials, but the entire boutique experience.
We have an Omega boutique near me… it’s very nice - beautiful watches and friendly, well informed salespeople. That being said I went into the GS boutique in London and it was beyond amazing. Watch out GS is figuring it out. My next watch will be a GS.
Imagine if GS did an OP like simple watch with beautiful colorful dials and improved steel bracelet + clasp with screws... not too complicated... average ppl don't care about the internal overcomplications
You’re correct in saying that GS can’t beat Omega in the short term but they can close the gap between them. This would be a win, in my book. I think they should build their sports line around their divers, which hold a commanding lead in their sports watch offering.
You can make the argument that GS is vying for the 'watch nerd market' and that Omega operates in the larger luxury marketplace. I'm not sure how happy either is in those spaces, but it seems pretty defined at this point, I reckon. So, are they even really competing? Thoughts?
I've started to notice a lot of similarities with Grand Seiko to Cartier, pulling from the world around them as the design be the most important values to them, not to say the Grand Seiko don't create great movements. Question for them is, how do you go about creating your 'tank'?
Love you guys and your conversations. I am a big fan of Grand Seiko and I also love Omega too. I think Grand Seiko is way more affordable and punches way above its price in terms of value. Omega is nice too but they are more expensive, less accurate, and frankly, heritage just doesn't appeal to me. I'd rather have precision and engineering advancements than heritage look and feel.
I’ve always wanted a Grand Seiko. On another note, I recently subscribed on Instagram and some of the reels are hilarious. 🤣 I love this channel and all the great content.
I’d get vintage GS or King Seiko, such a cool story about the factories competing even if it’s embellished; also my family has a seiko streak running from my dad buying himself and his dad a seiko, and then myself doing the same for my dad.
3/3 (No side): Lastly, I think it's fair to say the average watch enthusiast watches TH-cam content on the matter, even going so far as to say that most are familiar with Hodinkee's 'Talking Watches'. Viscerally, when you watch a new Talking Watches episode and you see a DEEP cut Omega vs. a Grand Seiko, which are you more excited about? I think there are just too many opportunities to geek out over Omegas than there are Grand Seikos.
Why can't just GS equip the SBGV245 case with a nice automatic movement and throw in a rub er strap? Been waiting for it for 6 years , it's such an obvious sports watch to make
I’m thinking about buying a Grand Seiko SBG with the quartz movement over an Omega because the price wins. I can get one brand new significantly under the official RRP, and there are no Omegas at that price point.
Easier said than done, but I’d love to see Grand Seiko featured as the next Bond watch. New actor, new direction for the series, big opening for a watch company that has been killing it through a pandemic.
Love the Iron Snail and el Jefe! I agree that the thing holding GS back is the lack of a great sports watch. For me, GS options are always best on a leather band, but if you want the versatility of having something on a SS band… they fall short. Undeniably beautiful watches though.
I thought Grand Seiko Snowflake dials were incredible until I visited a boutique and when the snowflakes isn't under a macro lens, it's really hard to see the detail that makes it look so impressive in videos
Loved this dialogue. I already kind of see Grand Seiko in a similar light to JLC. Extremely fine watches; super premium movement with nearly unbeatable finishing. They have a few things holding them back but I agree that their greatest road block is lack of a good sports watch line. They simply dont, not cant, compete with other brands that do have them. Beautiful dress watches, stunning and an incredible value proposition. Dress watches just aren't really popular right now.
I have 2 GS, 1 Omega. Agree Omega does better with sports watches - actually I would say diver and Chronograph watches specifically - and GS much better on finish and dress watches. Other angles to this and future discussions. 1/Which brands attract interest vs retain loyalty. Marketing tie-ins attract, but quality and emotional connection (how it makes you feel) retains. 2/Net net is the ‘Seiko’ in Grand Seiko a positive? What proportion of people who’ve owned and loved Seiko, which is great value at the price, remain ‘loyal’ and later upgrade to GS (akin to moonswatch to Omega) - vs - need to feel they’ve ‘progressed’ to another wholly luxury brand (Omega, Rolex, etc) 3/Which brands focus more on watch enthusiasts vs mass market, and which are most successful in each category
Only just came across you guys recently, great content delivered in an accurate amusing way. Keep it going. Also your open letter to Breitling was incredible.
Love your videos. Always look forward to them every time I get the notification. I have a GS and am thinking about getting a speedy as I’m not willing to overpay for those damned Daytonas
If Grand Seiko exists for watch lovers, they need to work on releasing more reasonable watch sizes. More 36-38mm releases! Most of their stuff is dressier and 40+ looks silly. I adore the brand otherwise.
Agreed i have some pre big wrists and am overall big dude(186cm 107kg) they look pretty normal on me. But for smaller guys 40+ def looks off. Their chronographs and divers are even too big for big fat guys. They need way more stuff around 40 and under.
I hear that saying a lot "I really, really, really love Grand Seiko" and everyone I've met or friends that have said it, have not bought one or own one. That to me, speaks volumes.
I am an “entry level” enthusiast. I own Bulovas and a Ball Engineer III. I have a grail collection in mind, and if i were to bounce one for an omega/GS, I would never take an Omega. I just find their designs mostly boring, and the only watch of substance is the Speedmaster. Highly Meh brand. GS is at least taking daring approaches with dials Grail Collection: Red dial grand seiko whose name i forgot Cartier Santos bracelet blue dial JLC Reverson Duoface + moonphase Rolex Datjust41 blue/green flutes/jubilee Breitling superocean green dial
There is something about Grand Seiko that prevents me from buying them. I recently tried on some model with absolutely fantastic dials, and the watches had a presence on my wrist…..but….it still felt eh next to trying on an Omega. I can’t explain it. Maybe it’s the that I have always associated grand seiko with seiko as a very inexpensive low cost brand.
This was a tough one for me. I'm kinda split honestly, I can see both sides. I do wish Grand Seiko would stop with the limited releases. You always seem to miss them then the aftermarket prices are ridiculous.
Micro rotator spring drive below 12mm thickness with inter grated bracelet and a blue/ black textured dial. Change the brand to just GS. Or a line of watches after famous samari’s
Fun thought exercise, highlighted what is really great about both brands. To me, anything is possible, but not anything is probable. Omega would have to make a lot of poor decisions, consistently; and Grand Seiko would have to make a lot of very strategically good (and lucky) decisions, very consistently. Even then… What brands are next for debate?
A lot of great points presented guys. What’s your take on the Evolution 9 GMTs? I personally feel those were their 1-2 punch to the sports watch that really blues the line between sports and dress much like Rolex gmt does.
I purchased Omegas in the past for its versatility where they can pass as dress and sport. I feel like most grand seiko’s are dressy and with post COVID not going into the office and out to events as much, I see myself grabbing a “everyday watch” rather than a dress watch for my everyday life.
Another great vid! I must say, GS is an incredible brand, but I believe that omega will absolutely dominate the mass market for the foreseeable future. I do also think that GS will continue to gain popularity and will reach higher levels, but omega is ingrained so deep in the hobby that it would be very difficult for GS to overtake them.
As much as I love both brands, I think it's nearly impossible that GS can release a sportwatchs that rivals (in appeal) to a Speedmaster or a Seamaster. Great video guys!
Doubt : Should we buy a watch which retains its value so we can sell and buy another watch without putting additional money, essentially one watch investment for life. Or should we buy a watch we love even though it doesn’t retain its value and be more expensive to replace in the long run.
I love both brands. GS has better finishing and technologically more advanced, but Omegas heritage and iconic designs push them ahead of GS in my opinion. The Aqua Terra is just so damn gorgeous
@@diavalus I agree… mostly. The new 9SA5 movement is epic, but if you’re comparing an SBGR317 to a black Aqua Terra, the Aqua Terra is more technically advanced. That said, GS has spring drive, which is even more advanced than the caliber 8900… but at that point, is it apples to apples or are we comparing different things?
@@Sk3tchPad I see your point, and I think you’re correct. Comparing quartz to mechanical is comparing apples to pears. Omega has tungsten bezel, ceramic dials, extreme water ratings, Metas and black polishing, GS has zaratsu polishing, well polished movements and many others. This said, I think one should own both brands, they are fantastic. I don’t see them as competitors, I wake up in the morning and depending what kind of day I will have, I will choose either Omega or GS.
I feel like GS has everything to be the best and coolest watch brand, BUT they still have a lot of work to do to catch up with the big boys. There is an element of bran equity and history for sure, but in my experience, they MUST work on the fit of their watches. The bracelets are absolutely humongous as beautiful as the cases and dials are... the difference with a brand like Tudor or Omega is just too big. You can try on any BB or Speedy and they sit nicely on the wrist... and then it's just a matter of taste. With GS they all look amazing but then you put them on and something always feels a bit off proportions wise.
I was actually looking at an AT for my first watch and when I saw it in person it fell flat. The GS on the other hand is incredible and actually what I went with for my mostly one watch collection. My only complaint with them is they are a little thick for what they are in most cases.
Long time Omega fan and owner here, but not the only brand I own. I respect what GS does, they have the best dials in the business. The only models that speak to me though are the SBGM221 and SBGW231.
Grand Seiko can beat Omega on two very important areas, accuracy and innovation. Spring drive is one of the greatest innovations in horology and it's accuracy is second to none.
Everything else aside: I've been to almost every major watch boutique in London and the level of attention, luxury, and service in the GS boutique in comparison to everything else was remarkable. I own an Omega, but the experience of just BROWSING at the GS boutique makes me want to buy that as my next watch.
Absolutely love your videos, especially these involving debate of two notable brands - an active discussion about popular icons in Omega and Grand Seiko is great, and I appreciate points on both sides of the table 👍
I've tried hard to love GS and am completely open-minded to them, but like many others here the aesthetics of their watches just don't appeal to me. And I completely respect the quality of their watches - I'm just waiting for them to take that craftsmanship and produce a model that I can't resist! Omega, on the other hand, has many references I'd love to own.
Totally reasonable. No love for the aesthetic of the SLGA007, SLGA009 or SBGP017?
Facts. Omegas has top tier movements, finishing, AND design. GS falls short on design, which is critical when spending thousands of dollars.
Same
I feel the exact same way. I never connected to any of GS's watches.
I completely agree with this. I’ve looked at loads of grand seikos and tried them on. I went to the GS boutique in Knightsbridge, London and spent 2 hours trying on everything. Nothing really made me think ‘yes this is the one’. Omega have many iconic timepieces and their newest sector dial is fabulous, blows the omiwatari out of the water. GS vs Omega? No chance
Seiko va omega? Different proposal
Someone once said, buy a Rolex to impress others, buy a Grand Seiko to impress yourself...enough said.
Who?
Very well put Daniel, when I loop my grand Seiko wow, never gets old, Jeff.
I rather a Submariner or a Speedmaster. Grand Seiko dosen't do a dam thing for me and they change their styles way to often so nothing will be iconic
I agree with the Rolex impressing others...but Omega? While it's my favorite luxury watch brand and is leaps and bounds ahead of Rolex as a watchmaker (IMO) most people won't spot an omega or give a shit. Everyone knows Rolex and pitches pants tents. I'll stick to my Omega.
@@lonewolfemcquade8133 Snowflake
Good or bad, grand Seiko is like the Lexus of watches. They showed they can compete with the swiss but there’s always something small missing when it comes to a wearing/driving experience.
I’ve owned both brands and I always come up with the same , slightly disappointed feeling after trying so hard to love it. If I had to choose it’s omega
Grand Seiko’s quality to price ratio is really top notch. And they retain their value extremely well.
GS and Omega are my favorite two brands, and own both. I'd take a slightly different tack and say it's apples and oranges, both having their place and complementing each other extraordinarily in a collection. GS makes astounding dress watches and dressy GADAs that are just head and shoulders above anything this side of holy trinity particularly in their level of hand craftsmanship (dials, dial furniture, zaratsu finishing). That's not Omegas thing at all. Omega makes some of the GOAT sport watches, mass produced, go to the moon or the Mariana Trench, or for that matter the Olympics. GS will never catch Omega's legacy in sports in a hundred years, and Omega could never devote the time and energy to even touch GS quality without seriously repositioning themselves, which they have no reason to do. So on my wrist, it's SMP300 for a daily sports watch, GS SGBA201 for just a ridiculously classy dress GADA. Great video and thoroughly enjoyed this discussion!
Exactly. It's a bad comparison. I just bought an Aqua Terra and I'm considering a Skyflake. Totally different watches.
Maybe it’s the name. But I could never see myself choosing a GS over an Omega. I’ve also just always been wanted a speedy and a sea master so that might Also have something to do with it.
I'm the same. I think some of their dials look amazing but they change their models every 6 months and resale value is horrific if you want to trade in / swap out. You will always be able to sell a speedmaster or seamaster without getting completely hosed in your investment.
@@Weakeyedominant Yes I agree I don't like when they change styles so quickly. Pick one style and stick with it so it becomes iconic ✨ Breitling is another brand that's constantly changing the Super ocean way to often
I visited my local design district with all the watch shops and I was so ready to go with GS. But when I got to the store and put them on the watches felt kinda flat, also I guess the rep wasn't as enthusiastic and, side note, no financing option. When I got to Omega the reps really walked me through everything made me fall in love with the speedmaster and aqua terra.
Sorry to hear you had that experience. Personally, I've never been to a GS boutique or AD where the sales associates weren't enthusiastic and ready to go into all the nitty gritty on a dime.
Please don't finance watches
Never finance consumption!
@kieran finney then you haven't seen enough models. They haven't had a primarily polished case in the heritage line since the Snowflake. And the Evo9 line is primarily brushed. Bracelets also vastly improved and super comfortable in the Evo9 line.
@kieran finney their marketing is really muddy, true, and their bracelets aren't at Rolex quality (then again, no one's really are), but I definitely wouldn't say the cases have no life to them. Hell, in my collection of 5 or so luxury pieces, they're the only ones where the case finishing and execution REALLY pops every time for me, and that's despite owning two Cartiers with beautiful shapes of their own.
If we're talking Omega "Ed White" Cal 321... then it's Omega 100% .... if we're talking the usual ETA based Coaxial Omega vs GS.... then it's a toss up... I have a top of the line GS Hi-Beat White Birch, and white beautiful to look it... it runs 25+ seconds fast a day and even after sending into GS, still runs fast.. So overall, I'd have to give it to Omega.. but specially their higher end production pieces..
GS is pricing themselves out of the market with the new evolution line. Rolex datejust / OP prices but marginally better than their classic models and not superior to many Omegas at half the price.
Very interesting debate. I always had my eye on an Omega but when push came to shove I opted for a GS primarily because of the technology and the finishing. It threaded the needle between dress and casual for me. I do like that Globemaster and it may make a perfect addition to my two watch collection and I would have a complete three watch collection.
Last point:
Omega drops the moonswatch: watch community freaks out
Seiko drops a GMT: watch community freaks out
Grand Seiko drops a new model:
I bought my wife a Tudor Royal recently, and she was with me the whole time when we were looking for her first mechanical entry level luxury watch. I asked her if she might be interested in a Grand Seiko for ladies, she literally said "Why would I go for a Seiko if I want a luxury piece?"... I am giving this as an example to show that people who know about Omega and Grand Seiko know their shit, but Grand Seiko is still an unknown brand for people who don't know about high end luxury watches. With this being said, I think that Seiko is Grand Seiko's monkey on the back, however, with good advertising strategies (because obviously they already have the good build quality and heritage) Grand Seiko might beat Omega and even some more similar luxury watch brands.
They basically have to stop making regular seikos. Swap to one of their other sub brands. Orient. Brightz astron prospeX what ever. Just stop sticking seiko on all their lines. Can you imagine if there's a little swatch badge on all omegas 5k watches? It would kill their sales dead
Just out of curiosity, which Tudor royal variant did you get her ?
@@rage8kage totally correct, thanks for sharing your thoughts :)
@@leroyjenkins9000 I don't know the exact reference but it was the S&G version with a white dial and diamond numerals
I would argue both sides of this point… GS was my first watch and I LOVED it, but I eventually sold it for an omega which I still wear. All points are valid 🤷🏻♂️
What quanity do you consider a small collection? A large collection? The perfect collection to wear on a regualr basis and not get bored?
When I first got into watches, I didn't pay GS any attention. I just thought they were very sporty high end Seikos. Now I've learnt more and explored their elegance line, I think they are producing the best looking dress watches, definitely at their price point, and maybe beating some brands at a much higher price point.
Ryan Gosling can move a watch. See drive and lala land and his style outside of movies. His redwings, knit polos, camp shirts, etc
I think GS can make itself more desirable to the mass market by going around them and positioning themselves as a high horology brand with watches like their constant force tourbillon. I do think they could use some changes in their design language but if you can appeal to a certain segment at the top others will follow and try to emulate their style. Personally I love GS but prefer Omega as brand because of their variety, history, and “classic” quality-but at the end of the day most GS models simply don’t resonate with me and give me that tingly feeling inside that makes me want to buy a watch.
I love my Grand Seiko. For me looking down at it nearly takes my breath away how beautiful and intricate it is. BUT, I've seen myself in pictures with it, and from any other perspective besides up close it looks like a very generic, plain watch. I cant put my finger on exactly what it is. It could be some subtle elements of Japanese design vs Swiss that just haven't caught on yet. Either way I love it. Especially with Seiko in the name. It is a watch that doesn't shout "look at how much money I have." It under promises and over delivers. Nobody is going to mug you for your Grand Seiko or think you are flexing, but anybody who is paying attention can't help but be impressed.
I agree. I see it like Japanese street wear. If you love it you love it and if you don’t, then you don’t really get it.
I feel like Japanese luxury cars are the same. They need to over deliver to compete with the established European luxury. The Japanese brands are bang for their buck in a way and very well built and they have their fan base and are well respected with enthusiasts. I like GS and I like Omega.
This.
GS makes too many great watches.. smaller tighter catalog (the rolex model) would promote more interest and recognizable models. People who are new to the brand can get lost in a decision and in the meantime purchase a speedy (guilty). I agree they need work on the sports line. Would love to see another SE watch like the Godzilla maybe samurai or Japanese sword related. Thanks for the great video.
Maybe it's because I've lived in Japan for a long time, but Grand Seiko's styling doesn't really excite me. My doctor wears a Grand Seiko, and it's not because he's a watch guy. It's just the watch to wear for a doctor here. GS knows this market segment well, and they're mostly older and don't do sports watches. I hope that GS's popularity overseas pulls their marketing department to be a littler more daring.
Grand Seiko is one of the most frustrating watch companies. Regarding their lack of adjustments on their bracelets, I had the SBGN003 and I could not get a good/decent fit and I've tried all variations with the 2 half-links provided. Perhaps a 3rd half-link would have done it but I shouldn't have to go out of my way to buy a 3rd one.
I want to like their watches. The fit and finish rivals the best, but the ability to wear their watches fall short. Their automatics (especially GMT's) are too thick and too large. The ones with micro-adjustments that I can recall are some GMT's and of course their divers but they're huge and thick. Who are they catering to?
One of the things that I have always admired about Grand Seiko is the no compromise type of attitude that they have. It is the type of mindset that delivers amazing product at the relatively acceptable price. The mindset that the Japanese have towards creating product is one of the many things I admire from them and I am always astounded by the level of details that they do towards their products at Grand Seiko.
I am not sure GS has the brand recognition yet.. And where is their sports watch.
Both Grand Seiko and Omega are beautiful watches, but which one is generally most precise?
GS spring drives are more accurate by far
1/3 (No side): I think it's hard for Grand Seiko to compete with the hearts of watch lovers mostly because of itself, seiko.
You could make the argument that Seiko itself is equal to or more prominent in the hearts of watch nerds.
You start divvying up Seiko, Seiko 5, Seiko Prospex, King Seiko, Grand Seiko and it's just too confusing.
How can Grand Seiko compete with Omega if it's too busy competing with itself?
GS can’t design a bracelet to save their lives
I always appreciate the thoughtful insights from the both of you, it’s always a treat to watch.
Correct me if I'm wrong. I think the latest GS limited edition releases are in Thailand, not Taiwan. (Koke-iro/SBGH303, Nami/SBGY021, Hikari/SBGY025)
Was thinking of adding a Grand seiko sbgm 221 GMT or paying way over the odds for a Rolex Pepsi ,thoughts?
I get my love of Omega from my father who passed down a Goldeneye era Seamaster 300m. However, I have purchased 2 Grand Seikos (1 hi-beat, 1 Spring Drive) and have yet to purchase an Omega for myself. Let's talk about it.
I'm going with both... currently own the Grand Seiko Tentagraph and Snowflake. Planning on buying the Omiwatari as well.
But my next watch will be the Omega Speedmaster Moon Phase Sedna Gold (brown strap) version.
Then it'll be a Rolex Diver of some sort...
Then a holy trinity grail watxh like Audemars Piguet Royal Oak...
Oh... and I have a selection of G-Shock MRG watches which I also love 😊❤ 🇬🇧
No way GS beats Omega.
Omega designs traditionally have a universal appeal and they are willing to adapt their styling to stay current. Grand Seikos design language is awkward to many and it appears they are going down the Rolex path of “our way or the highway” in regards to constrained singular design. Make no mistake, GS design is not on par with an Oyster so taking a hardline approach will likely continue to alienate certain buyers. There is no doubt GS will continue to be successful but not to Omega levels. Neither stand a chance against Rolex.
At the end of the day we buy watches with designs that speak to us and great fit/finishing can’t override that. FTR I’m not a big fan of Omega but absolutely understand their appeal.
9:00 why doesn't seiko just rebrand all of grand seiko as credor?
Just got my first GS, a 9F quartz. My Longines VHP now seems so inferior to it I can't believe I ever wore it. If GS figures out some marketing and releases some attainable sports watches they'll get massive.
It’s such a good movement that
I agree. Seiko can make good sport watches. Seiko got the SKX, Alpinist, Arnie, King Turtle, the Tuna, the Monster. Just make a GS version of the Alpinist and it will do extremely well.
F9 is a good movement it can be serviced you can get it serviced and it will last a life time. It is a long interval too like 20 years. Super accurate as well and quartz made Seiko what it is so it also a bit of history with it too.
@@alexlilano1931 so good right! I got myself a spring drive and hi beat36000 too recently and they’re all pretty impressive
I have been the biggest fan of your channel . Keep killing it with the oxfords and chubbies . You really got me addicted to watches and I recently just purchased a 1998 birthday speedy . Completely in love with it . Thank you for all the videos and love . NH
Now that is an interesting idea! GS gaining market share by going straight at each Swiss brand’s undisputed heavyweight. A Speedmaster alternative that is a better value, a submariner alternative that is actually available for purchase, etc etc.
You can buy one Seiko and be happy but you need many omegas to be happy. Boom omega wins every time
Fascinating that y'all think GS is having a slow year, feels like one of their hottest years in terms of pace in a while. Kodo, a new wide appealing set of GMTs, their best diver yet, their best sports chrono yet, new Whirlpool, new Peacock, Spring Drive and titanium variations of the White Birch, and a bunch of other standard 9S8 releases. VERY strong and steady stream so far.
Thx for that. But that does play into Christian’s point about marketing - how are they getting the word out? I watch 20+ TH-cam watch videos a week - never heard of any of these new drops.
@@WestCoastAce27 that's less because of GS and more because TH-camrs just over focused on Rolex LHD and Tudor BBPro during W&W for clicks lol. The GMTs and Divers were on Hodinkee front page at W&W first day, it was covered on other publications, and it was a headliner of GS's own content next to the Kodo. Spring Drive White Birch was waitlisted for almost the first half of the year too. I still haven't been able to see a Black Birch in person.
New Whirlpool and Peacock, however, were explicitly kept pretty quiet. Announced at a GS owner's event, quietly showed up on the online boutique, sold out everywhere in the first hour or two because they're super limited and special ones. Those models at this point are explicitly made to appeal to existing collectors and secondhand value because those are NUTS watches lol.
Omega was my first luxury watch and that emotional attachment is far too strong for me. That being said, experiencing Grand Seiko's in person is incredible. Not just the intricacy of the dials, but the entire boutique experience.
We have an Omega boutique near me… it’s very nice - beautiful watches and friendly, well informed salespeople. That being said I went into the GS boutique in London and it was beyond amazing. Watch out GS is figuring it out. My next watch will be a GS.
Can anybody tell me what the opening song before this video starts is?
Imagine if GS did an OP like simple watch with beautiful colorful dials and improved steel bracelet + clasp with screws... not too complicated... average ppl don't care about the internal overcomplications
You’re correct in saying that GS can’t beat Omega in the short term but they can close the gap between them. This would be a win, in my book. I think they should build their sports line around their divers, which hold a commanding lead in their sports watch offering.
You can make the argument that GS is vying for the 'watch nerd market' and that Omega operates in the larger luxury marketplace. I'm not sure how happy either is in those spaces, but it seems pretty defined at this point, I reckon. So, are they even really competing? Thoughts?
😂 jokes aside, which watch is the taiwan special edition? I can’t seem to find any information on that
What's up with the audio on this one? Can't watch it.
I've started to notice a lot of similarities with Grand Seiko to Cartier, pulling from the world around them as the design be the most important values to them, not to say the Grand Seiko don't create great movements. Question for them is, how do you go about creating your 'tank'?
Love you guys and your conversations. I am a big fan of Grand Seiko and I also love Omega too. I think Grand Seiko is way more affordable and punches way above its price in terms of value. Omega is nice too but they are more expensive, less accurate, and frankly, heritage just doesn't appeal to me. I'd rather have precision and engineering advancements than heritage look and feel.
I’ve always wanted a Grand Seiko. On another note, I recently subscribed on Instagram and some of the reels are hilarious. 🤣 I love this channel and all the great content.
I’d get vintage GS or King Seiko, such a cool story about the factories competing even if it’s embellished; also my family has a seiko streak running from my dad buying himself and his dad a seiko, and then myself doing the same for my dad.
3/3 (No side): Lastly, I think it's fair to say the average watch enthusiast watches TH-cam content on the matter, even going so far as to say that most are familiar with Hodinkee's 'Talking Watches'.
Viscerally, when you watch a new Talking Watches episode and you see a DEEP cut Omega vs. a Grand Seiko, which are you more excited about?
I think there are just too many opportunities to geek out over Omegas than there are Grand Seikos.
Gran Seiko are they easy to service ?
Why can't just GS equip the SBGV245 case with a nice automatic movement and throw in a rub er strap? Been waiting for it for 6 years , it's such an obvious sports watch to make
I’m thinking about buying a Grand Seiko SBG with the quartz movement over an Omega because the price wins. I can get one brand new significantly under the official RRP, and there are no Omegas at that price point.
Easier said than done, but I’d love to see Grand Seiko featured as the next Bond watch. New actor, new direction for the series, big opening for a watch company that has been killing it through a pandemic.
Love the Iron Snail and el Jefe! I agree that the thing holding GS back is the lack of a great sports watch. For me, GS options are always best on a leather band, but if you want the versatility of having something on a SS band… they fall short. Undeniably beautiful watches though.
I thought Grand Seiko Snowflake dials were incredible until I visited a boutique and when the snowflakes isn't under a macro lens, it's really hard to see the detail that makes it look so impressive in videos
Loved this dialogue. I already kind of see Grand Seiko in a similar light to JLC. Extremely fine watches; super premium movement with nearly unbeatable finishing. They have a few things holding them back but I agree that their greatest road block is lack of a good sports watch line. They simply dont, not cant, compete with other brands that do have them. Beautiful dress watches, stunning and an incredible value proposition. Dress watches just aren't really popular right now.
Guys has the quality of the videos gone down? (Not the quality of the content, the actual visual quality)?
Love this type of content. I am not in the position to purchase either brand, but I still enjoy learning from experts. Please keep it up.
I have 2 GS, 1 Omega. Agree Omega does better with sports watches - actually I would say diver and Chronograph watches specifically - and GS much better on finish and dress watches.
Other angles to this and future discussions.
1/Which brands attract interest vs retain loyalty.
Marketing tie-ins attract, but quality and emotional connection (how it makes you feel) retains.
2/Net net is the ‘Seiko’ in Grand Seiko a positive? What proportion of people who’ve owned and loved Seiko, which is great value at the price, remain ‘loyal’ and later upgrade to GS (akin to moonswatch to Omega) - vs - need to feel they’ve ‘progressed’ to another wholly luxury brand (Omega, Rolex, etc)
3/Which brands focus more on watch enthusiasts vs mass market, and which are most successful in each category
Doubt Grand Seiko will beat Omega as long as Seiko is in the name. Lots of watch snobs will never accept anything with the name Seiko on it.
Only just came across you guys recently, great content delivered in an accurate amusing way. Keep it going. Also your open letter to Breitling was incredible.
Love your videos. Always look forward to them every time I get the notification. I have a GS and am thinking about getting a speedy as I’m not willing to overpay for those damned Daytonas
Love the debate. Interesting topic. Love how “beat” was defined do the debate stayed practical and meaningful.
If Grand Seiko exists for watch lovers, they need to work on releasing more reasonable watch sizes. More 36-38mm releases! Most of their stuff is dressier and 40+ looks silly. I adore the brand otherwise.
Agreed i have some pre big wrists and am overall big dude(186cm 107kg) they look pretty normal on me. But for smaller guys 40+ def looks off. Their chronographs and divers are even too big for big fat guys. They need way more stuff around 40 and under.
They do have smaller sizes. 37mm and 38mm. Plenty of them.
I hear that saying a lot "I really, really, really love Grand Seiko" and everyone I've met or friends that have said it, have not bought one or own one. That to me, speaks volumes.
I am an “entry level” enthusiast. I own Bulovas and a Ball Engineer III. I have a grail collection in mind, and if i were to bounce one for an omega/GS, I would never take an Omega. I just find their designs mostly boring, and the only watch of substance is the Speedmaster. Highly Meh brand. GS is at least taking daring approaches with dials
Grail Collection:
Red dial grand seiko whose name i forgot
Cartier Santos bracelet blue dial
JLC Reverson Duoface + moonphase
Rolex Datjust41 blue/green flutes/jubilee
Breitling superocean green dial
Great video. Commented for the competition. Big fan of the channel. Keep it up. And brown Jordaan loafers would be the choice.
There is something about Grand Seiko that prevents me from buying them. I recently tried on some model with absolutely fantastic dials, and the watches had a presence on my wrist…..but….it still felt eh next to trying on an Omega. I can’t explain it. Maybe it’s the that I have always associated grand seiko with seiko as a very inexpensive low cost brand.
This was a tough one for me. I'm kinda split honestly, I can see both sides. I do wish Grand Seiko would stop with the limited releases. You always seem to miss them then the aftermarket prices are ridiculous.
This is literally the only channel I have notifications turned on for
Agreed! For a dress watch, I’m actually debating between grand Seiko and Cartier… and that’s the extent of my desire for grand Seiko 🤷🏻♂️
Micro rotator spring drive below 12mm thickness with inter grated bracelet and a blue/ black textured dial. Change the brand to just GS. Or a line of watches after famous samari’s
Grand Seiko's dressy watches are incredible. Terrific. They could use more mass market styling and sizing for their sports watches, though.
Fun thought exercise, highlighted what is really great about both brands.
To me, anything is possible, but not anything is probable. Omega would have to make a lot of poor decisions, consistently; and Grand Seiko would have to make a lot of very strategically good (and lucky) decisions, very consistently. Even then…
What brands are next for debate?
The cinematography and production value in your manufacturer pieces is second to none.
No sound. İncrease the volume plese
Im actually curently strugeling to decide if i want to buy a GS Winter or an Omega Globemaster as my first Luxury piece. Would love any Input.
Globemaster. The annual calendar is a stunning watch in person.
A lot of great points presented guys. What’s your take on the Evolution 9 GMTs? I personally feel those were their 1-2 punch to the sports watch that really blues the line between sports and dress much like Rolex gmt does.
At this point Theo and Harris are probably the most quality producer of watch content on TH-cam
I purchased Omegas in the past for its versatility where they can pass as dress and sport. I feel like most grand seiko’s are dressy and with post COVID not going into the office and out to events as much, I see myself grabbing a “everyday watch” rather than a dress watch for my everyday life.
Another great vid! I must say, GS is an incredible brand, but I believe that omega will absolutely dominate the mass market for the foreseeable future. I do also think that GS will continue to gain popularity and will reach higher levels, but omega is ingrained so deep in the hobby that it would be very difficult for GS to overtake them.
I have had my eye on grand seiko for a long time. The textured dials are incredible. Definitely have to pick one up in the near future.
I think GS' major problem is the S part. Even on Chrono24 they are listed under Seiko.
As much as I love both brands, I think it's nearly impossible that GS can release a sportwatchs that rivals (in appeal) to a Speedmaster or a Seamaster. Great video guys!
Ya agreed seamaster 300m and speedy cant really be beat. They can beat omega at dressy stuff but the sporty stuff nah dont think they can.
Doubt : Should we buy a watch which retains its value so we can sell and buy another watch without putting additional money, essentially one watch investment for life. Or should we buy a watch we love even though it doesn’t retain its value and be more expensive to replace in the long run.
Here goes nothing! Whats your stance on Sellita movements in Tudor watches?
Wonder if we win this giveaway could we get a watch?
I love both brands. GS has better finishing and technologically more advanced, but Omegas heritage and iconic designs push them ahead of GS in my opinion. The Aqua Terra is just so damn gorgeous
Technologically they aren’t more advanced, their only card is a quartz movement. Besides that, Omega is technologically better.
@@diavalus I agree… mostly. The new 9SA5 movement is epic, but if you’re comparing an SBGR317 to a black Aqua Terra, the Aqua Terra is more technically advanced. That said, GS has spring drive, which is even more advanced than the caliber 8900… but at that point, is it apples to apples or are we comparing different things?
@@Sk3tchPad I see your point, and I think you’re correct. Comparing quartz to mechanical is comparing apples to pears. Omega has tungsten bezel, ceramic dials, extreme water ratings, Metas and black polishing, GS has zaratsu polishing, well polished movements and many others.
This said, I think one should own both brands, they are fantastic. I don’t see them as competitors, I wake up in the morning and depending what kind of day I will have, I will choose either Omega or GS.
Love your content. Eager to see actual watch reviews every once in awhile!
I feel like GS has everything to be the best and coolest watch brand, BUT they still have a lot of work to do to catch up with the big boys. There is an element of bran equity and history for sure, but in my experience, they MUST work on the fit of their watches. The bracelets are absolutely humongous as beautiful as the cases and dials are... the difference with a brand like Tudor or Omega is just too big. You can try on any BB or Speedy and they sit nicely on the wrist... and then it's just a matter of taste. With GS they all look amazing but then you put them on and something always feels a bit off proportions wise.
I was actually looking at an AT for my first watch and when I saw it in person it fell flat. The GS on the other hand is incredible and actually what I went with for my mostly one watch collection. My only complaint with them is they are a little thick for what they are in most cases.
I agree with Michael, lacking the excitement factor is one of the largest “downsides” of Grand Seiko.
Excited for the future of watches. Hope Grand Seiko improves their bracelets/clasps soon.
sbga465 in different variations usingg new spring drive movement would be a great datejust counterpart
Long time Omega fan and owner here, but not the only brand I own. I respect what GS does, they have the best dials in the business. The only models that speak to me though are the SBGM221 and SBGW231.