i mean, it is 8 years old. Never ever ever was i able to use a gpu for so long. Back in early 2000s a gpu would become irrelevant in just 2-3 years. Even if it still had some performance juice in it - a new version of directX would release and become a nail in the coffin
@@Nyarurin the only game I have issues loading is fortnite and pretty sure that's either down to my drive or cpu but once I get a pc with a better cpu I'll be going from a 1060 to a 5700xt
@@RandomGaminginHD No wonder why both Nvidia and AMD have basically given up on making very low-end display adapters as there's no point with doing so when APUs have come a long way.
@@RandomGaminginHD What's fun about this iGPU is that it will have driver support for a long, long time. Interesting to see how it will age compared to the 1060, especially as upscaling and other AI-based techniques improve!
most youtubers seem to think "sponsored" means promotional content where they receive money to make the kind of video the sponsor is asking them to make... but the way youtube wants it, if you received anything of value, you're supposed to mark the video as paid promotion, even if the video is meant to be entirely unbiased.
Of course, laptop chips have better bining for efficiency and are more expensive, and mini PCs have lower volume thus higher prices. AMD should release a desktop APU based on the Ryzen 370 HX ASAP.
After warranty, these mini-PCs are dead in water if anything happens, due to lack of standardization in the industry. Mini-ITX built on iGPU and PicoPSU is similar in size, and fits standard motherboards from variety of manufacturers. But still too large for mounting back of monitor for example. I wish Intel had pushed for a standard while it was doing NUC. Manufacturers are happy to keep things proprietary, to lock the customer out of other options
I got a Quadro P2000, which is basically a kneecapped 1060 and it'll play eSports titles just fine on our living room PC. My nephews use it for Minecraft whenever they visit.
Considering that on 2025 AMD will make an APU with 4070M like performance 4090 class performance won't be that far, maybe in the next 10 years? Or even less Thin and light or handheld market is really big right now
@@notificationguys5128ya but those ones are large as opposed to the ones in handhelds and mini PC right now. I'd say less than a decade from now before large ones hit 4090 performance and like 2 decades for the small ones
iGPUs catching up with dGPUs will always be cool, but the sad reality is that game requirements are increasing at a faster pace. So they will always be stuck at 1080p sub 60 FPS.
5:37 How the hell do you get your hand on a GTX 1060 in that amazing condition? My RX 6900 XT that I bought in 2022 has already shown some sign of corrosion on the heatsink.
Yep, we are there: iGPUs are comparable with popular and still in use medium range dGPUs. Next step will be targeting the 3060 range. That would be wild.
It's amazing that integrated graphics have come this far! It's a shame that in order to get to that level you have to spend quite a bit of money compared to a conventional CPU + dGPU solution. However, for those that don't need the best iGPU out there there are quite a few very capable Ryzen powered mini PCs in the $300-400 range that will easily handle everyday tasks and decent gaming.
the more i see people hyped for battlemage, the more intrigued i get why is people so interested on intel intel is well known for cancelling projects and they just want to sell ai gpus for servers, not for desktop pcs to play games
@@arch1107What planet have you been living on? Intel's CPUs have been a staple in gaming rigs for almost 2 decades. The shift to AMD is recent. For battlemage in particular, their arc series showed that they have the ability to make a decent gpu at a reasonable price, and (somehow) with better ray tracing than AMD despite their newness to the space, but were primarily held back by poor drivers due to their inexperience. Battlemage being their second attempt gives hope that their drivers will launch in a decent state, which would finally give us another serious competitor in the gpu market that could finally help course correct the outrageous prices of their competitors.
GTX 10 Series will remain absolutely legendary...such a price to performance win on launch and even now. I don't see us getting back to this sweet spot unfortunately
Do not dispair: 1. China is trying to catch up with GPU chips. Will you bet that a 1B-people country with a national pride in studying and full government backing (including espionage) will never be able to do what ASML of the Netherlands can do? 2. AI might fizzle out. You get a lot of people, some of them very credible engineers, saying AI might be a bubble 3. Intel (or whoever buys them out) are still in the GPU race. They are last - but they are still in the race 4. AMD is almost acceptable value and, with their future line ups failing to reach Nvidia, they might be focusing on the mid-range
@toddheartsound5451 honestly I agree with basically every point here...I ended up getting an rx6900xt simply because of the value proposition there. AI I'm pretty sure truly is a bubble as well. What I'm concerned with is the absolute near monopoly Nvidia has on the GPU market. This makes developers understandably focus on optimizing for their cards exclusively. Things very well may change and I hope they do because it would benefit everyone
@@templet45 There's another one, which especially concerns older gamers like me: Eye-sight. Human eye-sight isn't getting better with each generation :D And the eyes you were born with are the best you'll ever have. What I mean by that: I game on 1440p. I tried 4k and can barely tell the difference... Tried it on a very good OLED 70" TV - man I swear when the shooting starts (in the game LOL) I surely didn't notice my game update reverted my settings back to 1440p! So, 2040, even if I keep most of my eyesight, which is excellent (I can see better than a lot of teens), I would still be happily gaming at 1440p. Will they add more eye candy and optimise games a lot less? Maybe so (but also: maybe not). So, I think the whole "premium" experience is coming closer to the low end. Another example is the 9800x3d - does it totally murk every other gaming CPU? Sure! Are you any worse with a 7800x3d? I don't think so!
Back then things like wafer still cheap. 16nm is like $4000 per wafer back then. 5nm starts at $17, 000 per wafer. And TSMC already said they will increase 5nm price to $20, 000 next year. So upcoming gpu even if they still being built on 5nm they will get more expensive rather than cheaper.
The technology to make insanely powerful APUs already exists and we see them in consoles. Thing is, if they do make them (PCs) like that, then no one (majority) would want to build from regular stand alone components.
Problem is console is custom APU. Such design not available with PC modularity. For example with console they use GDDR6 memory to feed the gpu which is needed. On regular pc they can rely only on regular RAM.
Amd should make a cut down varient of strix halo like the original one is 16 core 40 compute unit. And the one with 10-12 core with 32 cu. But we need something like 6-8 core 24 cu. It ll absolutely be on par with 3050 8gb/1660 ti... And a 6 core 20 cu. Which is like 12400+3050 6gb 75 watt in a single chip. (It has to be cheaper btw)
As a previous SFF builder I love these mini PCs and that performance is impressive especially for 50w. Bit of a shame about the plastic case though, I'd like a nice Aluminium case at that price.
You should be able to take the TDP of the mini PC up. This would allow the iGPU to strech it's legs a little and give you more performance. Depending on the mini PC you could actually give the iGPU a slight overclock which helps immensely
Considering GTX1060 is a mid range card from 8 years ago, I would say that I expected the best iGPU in the market to be better. Would love if there was APU with the power of R5 7600 and RTX 3050 6GB. Don't think I am asking much.
I like this kind of comparisons but people who watch them seem to believe APUs are getting closer to dedicated cards. They're not, they always perform about as well a 7 year old a mid-range card. In 2018, they performed better than the 7 year older GTX 460.
Maybe I need to make a video of me playing Red Faction (2001) on an office computer (not even an expensive one) from 1999. iGPUs have been doing a decent job for most of the time. They'll get you playing and that's what matters!
remember the original AMD APUs? they couldn't run ANYTHING reasonably. remember old intel UHD? once again, couldn't run anything reasonably. remember back when integrated graphics were a function of the motherboard and weren't even on the CPU package? even worse. what?
@@schu1324 nah, I was a competitive starcraft 2 player on an HP cheapie laptop which had some intel UHD. You just dial the settings all the way down, especially resolution and you are in the game. If the game has no resolution under 1080p than it's just game companies artificially making otherwise good computers obsolete
@@schu1324 AMD APUs' have had a similar power (in proportion) to what we have today at least since Ryzen arrived. Intel is different but they just wanted to provide basic display functionalities or little more so people don't have to buy a GT 710.
There seems to be s bunch of games out there that seem to have a problem with VRAM assignemnt. RDR2 in your video was hobbled by ownly 800 MB of assigned VRAM and I had similiar and even worse problems with IGPUs in Monster Hunter World. As iGPUs get ever more powerful it's sad that these games don't seem to get ptches. Or maybe it's a drivers thing...
Upscaleing in Stalker 2 makes sense looking at the minimum requirements that call for a 1060 6GB/RX 580 8GB/Arc A750 for 1080p Low 30FPS useing TSR and comparable technologies.
My laptop with a 3070 and an i9 cost about the same as this mini PC, it's amazing what AMD have done with integrated graphics. My old laptop has a 6th gen i5 and a 6GB 1060 and is still capable of gaming at a reasonable level and you can pick up the same laptop for about £350 now.
When the cost comes down on this form factor it will become more desirable. Currently even at the discounted price there are higher/better performing laptops that have the added incentive of a screen. This would have been ideal for our children but I admit having built them both RX 7800xt desktop pcs with 1440p capable monitors for less than the price of the Minisform, they will get far more mileage out of their desktop pcs and have the ability to upgrade easily. Very nice micro pc with the major issue being at the price , you have no room for upgrades.
Any chance you could do some more tests in future power limiting the 890m to 10, 15 or 28w? Gives good points of comparison for people interested in lower power performance in handhelds.
The VRAM usage according to Rivatuner is very low for some games (principally Red Dead Redemption 2). Did you increase the amount of dedicated iGPU VRAM in the BIOS? Some games are fine with requesting/allocating more for VRAM, but some titles don't play nicely with that and really need you to specify it manually. I don't use this chip specifically (I have the V3 Tablet with the 780M), but I specifically allocated 8GB to mine.
What I’d like to see is how this stacks up against the M4 Mac mini. The Mac probably can’t game that well because it’s a Mac but I’d like to see other comparisons.
The 890M is just a bit faster than the 780M, both averaging 15-20% slower than a 1060. Interesting to see it ahead in a couple titles. A 780M system is less than half these HX 370 units though, so it's a tough sell here.
I feel as though the rising popularity in recent years of PC handhelds and integrated graphics has really helped cards like the GTX 1060 remain relevant all this time later. While you can’t jamb a 1060 into your Steam Deck, the reality of games running well enough on mobile hardware to enjoy AND people opting in larger enough numbers to play that way keep these oldies but goodies from being e-waste. I still have an i7-3770, GTX 1060 6GB for emulation and older/lighter PC gaming at 1080p, and I am often pleasantly surprised at how well it fares in even more modern titles. It’s like my PC version of a Series S or something. (My main rig is a 12700K paired with a RTX 3080 12GB, and boy does it generate HEAT in the summer time … so my “Series S” is a perfect PC for getting my fix when I don’t need the sauna.
Kind of crazy this is basically equivalent to the PS4 regarding graphics settings and frame rates. Except were 10 years later. PC APUs are just so far behind the console ones.
Those cp numbers are impressive. I wish there was a handheld with this chip. The allyx is the most powerful model I know of and it won’t do 60+ on 1080 native.
It's strange seeing GTX 1060 at the bottom of the barrel now, being compared to iGPU's. I remember a time when it used to max out games at 1080p along the RX 480. Time to upgrade, indeed.
I really love the idea of having a mini PC that will run games among other things... but they will at least need to run on console-like chips with console-like prices to be considered. Without an iGPU on par to what's in PS5 Pro it is a waste of 1100$+
PS5 Pro is £700, this isn't all that much more... And for £530 you can get a 7940HS machine with 32GB RAM and a 1TB SSD. These will drop in price before the PS5 Pro does
The GTX-1060 was basically an RX-580/480 competitor, and the RX-570/470 was a bit slower than the RX-580/480...so, is it fair to say that the 890m is roughly an RX-570 in performance?
Tends to take a decade for Igpus to roughly match top tier cards of the time. 1060 is close to a 980 in performance and this beats it in some games so I'm sure the trend I've notices holds up here too. Will take till about 2032 for 4090 performance to be in an Igpu.
I'm a PC gamer and I love the idea of this tiny PC. But at double the price of a PS5 or Xbox X, it's difficult to justify as a gaming device for folks to new to PC gaming or even casual PC gamers.
those are some impressive results from both GPUs. On the one side we have an iGPU capable of running modern titles at decent framerates. On the other side the 8 year old 1060 is still going strong after all the time.
You can get a similar size minipc with a 6600m dedicated gpu for the same price or less. massively better performance. If gaming is your use-case, these 890m machines aren't it
I think part of what we have here is a lack of optimization for the 1060 in newer games. Look at gta 6, its a bit older snd the difference is much more.
when a youtuber does a review or he keeps the item, or he does a giveaway or he returns it, all depends on the company sending the unit, some youtubers will mention this at the begining of the video, perhaps this channel should begin doing the disclaimer others do iirc some companies send two units, one for the channel, another for the giveaway, but on most cases the channel must do a review of the unit, because the company doesnt give pcs for free to people, just because
dude, The GTX 1060 is a 2016 8y.o. hardware, if anything this comparison shows that there was barely ANY progress with games and hardware, and that overpriced CPUs have anemic iGPUs that while being "The Fastest" still sukk hard
@@lonyo5377 and costs x6 more. so NOBODY in their right mind CARES about that obsolete slow 8y.o. performance-level trash and about its "efficiency". its NOT a mobile device to overpay that much for obsolete 2016 performance and to care THAT much about power consumption so you are content with anemic iGPU.
@@lonyo5377 any adequate person would get a laptop with WAY FASTER discrete GPU + display/keyboard/battery/touchpad for that money. and would get a WAY BETTER device.
@@lonyo5377 anybody in their right mind would buy a way FASTER laptop with discrete GPU + get display, keyboard, touchpad, speakers and battery for that money.
well, the npu is there, and amd is proud because intel npu is weaker afik not like anybody cares, but since people imagine ai is useful, and the company put the ai on the name...
Drivers still aren't merged with Linux Kernel, this is planned for february 2025 until then I doubt any open source AI project will be interested to support these NPU, AMD team responsible for those drivers probably drinking and taking drugs all the time instead of working on these or they are braindead.
If you test more games and with higher settings, there will still be a noticable gap between the igpu and the 1060, simply due to memory bandwidth. Did you retest cod and cyberpunk with higher graphical settings? It is bound to swing heavily in the 1060 favour. Even older stuff like tomb raider (2013) and sleeping dog will show the apu lagging behind the gpu once you use high and above settings. Even a super old midrange dedicated GPU still crush igpu in memory bandwidth. Even the base PS4 crush any modern x64 Apu in terms of memory bandwidth available. Most of the apu vs gpu test on TH-cam like to use some minimum/low settings tests to show the apu in a better light.
50w max sounds quite amazing! Can you run an external GPU on this.. Was it on purpose to say the price in hundreds and not thousands. Guess It doesn't as much if you say it as ten hundred.. than the other.. Something I noticed. Good video though!
My laptop 3070 is drawing 175W at full power and the i9 draws a fair amount as well but the desktop 3070 draws about 220W or 310W for the Ti version so NO a modern GPU won't run at 50W. You'd have to go back to older series cards, like the RX550, even the 1050 draws 75W and the 3050 draws 70W. I suppose they would run at 50W but you'd cap performance.
G'day Random, Yeah I also don't get why the Laptop GPUs are now called AI*, especially when the the Desktop version of the same architecture is NOT AI* 8*00G but still uses R* 8*00G I love your "Current APU vs DGPU Performance Comparisons" to see how they are advancing. Seeing how good the 890M performs against the GTX1060 6GB it makes me sad thinking how Awesome R3 2200G/3200G & R5 2400G/3400G were & why can't have a R3 9400G 4c/4t 880M + R5 9400G 4c/8t 890M at about £100-£120 & £150-£170 as an entry to AM5. When you are gaming for fun on a tight budget why pay for Cores & Threads when you do not need all that CPU performance.
no one said you have to buy it, it was being presented the apu performance on this machine, no one told you to go buy it, why are you upset, is it because you have a 1060 and feel old now?
Oh well.. my gtx1060 once upon a time was a recommended spec for a new released game. Now its literally at igpu level . Even minimum requirement nowaday is 1070 lol .. wht a time to be alive 🗿
Those iGPUs have come a long way since the days of potato-land, that's for sure! To think that the best iGPU can match a 1060 6GB... oh wow, I remember when the 1060 was the most used graphics card on Steam! As for the Minisforum box, that is IMO quite expensive for what it is, 32GB soldered RAM is a big no-no (yes it's 32GB, but that's not much when my HP OMEN has 32GB DDR4 and my main PC has 128GB DDR4) and personally I wouldn't go for such a PC unless I really, and I mean really, needed an ultra small form factor machine.
No one should be expecting an iGPU to be out performing most dGPU's- & it's not what they're made for, that said- most ppl don't know your PS4, PS5/PS5 Pro, XBox's, SteamDeck, & ASUS Ally & Aya Neo are all running AMD's gaming GPU's. Make sure you have Adjustable BAR enabled, XMP 1-3, (Intel) or D.O.C.P. or EXPO for AMD (In your B.I.O.S.). These are made mostly to give Intel a run for their $$. Compared to one of R7/9 Ryzen X3D the 890m is low end. Also it's a good idea to have a min of 32Gigs* of system ram & have fast ram on board as the iGPU's have to use it as a texture cache, which by default is much slower than GDDR ram on a normal GPU. Mine has 64G, of the fastest my board could use. AMD makes much faster / efficient use of the available system ram unless you have an Intel Core i7/i9 14900. I run any game that isn't over about 18Gigs directly off a RamDrive, so loading & caching textures is about 2x as fast as it is loading from your std NVME drive. If you are running on older hardware or have older GPU's lookup Lossless Scaling on steam. (My travel laptop is an i9 11900H w/iGPU- not Dedicated) best $7.00 I've ever spent on steam. It lets you use BOTH AMD & Nvidia's scaling, resolution, frame gen & others at the same time on the same game. My #'s avg about 12-25% higher than avg in framerate with the tweaks I use, & for games that are coded well, or are made to use those features guarantee's a bit more. *Win 11 can eat 18-22Gigs of ram with nothing running on crappily set up & bloated systems.
I have to admit, i don't really see the appeal of this Mini Pc's. I'd either buy/build a full size or sff PC with the ability to add a GPU easily or i'd buy a laptop with a dedicated GPU for less money than this. These mini pc's seem like they have the disadvantages of both and the advantages of neither.
I don't either, it's not a laptop and not a desktop so the use case for something like this is fairly niche. I can't see companies ditching their Dell machines to get this either so I don't know who this mini PC is aimed at!
I remember when 680M catch up with gtx 1050 desktop, then later 780M say hi to gtx 1050ti. Now 890M is tickling gtx 1060. Haha.. Next, presumably, Strix Halo will show its fists to RTX 4060 ? And also Intel iGPU is getting stronger; next year would be interesting.
me as a 1060 user: no no no no, wait wait wait wait"
😁
😂
Jus let it go bruh it's over
i mean, it is 8 years old. Never ever ever was i able to use a gpu for so long. Back in early 2000s a gpu would become irrelevant in just 2-3 years. Even if it still had some performance juice in it - a new version of directX would release and become a nail in the coffin
@@Nyarurin the only game I have issues loading is fortnite and pretty sure that's either down to my drive or cpu but once I get a pc with a better cpu I'll be going from a 1060 to a 5700xt
The fact that an iGPU is being compared to a still popular dGPU (the 1060 is ranked 12th on the Steam hardware survey) as a viable competitor is wild!
Wow... It's still ranked that high?
It shows how much of a legendary card the 1060 is@@slimal1
Just checked and it is! Top 15:
1st: RTX 3060
2nd: RTX 4060 Laptop GPU
3rd: RTX 4060
4th: GTX 1650
5th: RTX 2060
6th: RTX 4060 Ti
7th: RTX 3060 Ti
8th: RTX 3070
9th: GTX 1660 Super
10th: RTX 4070
11th: RTX 3060 Laptop GPU
12th: GTX 1060
13th: RTX 3050
14th: AMD Radeon Graphics
15th: Intel Iris Xe Graphics
15th: RTX 3080
*15th is a tie at 1.93%*
1060 is a ancient gpu ,and that thing cost more than 20 times more than a 1060
Only reason why rtx 3060 is popular is bc its mostly used for esports gaming, along with i5-12400f
This is a quality Idea....I've wanted to see GTX780-Ti vs RX-780m, but this is basically an updated version of THAT match-up, but without the memes.
Haha I’ll have to try that at some point
1060 is better than 780ti, both in raw power but especially in newer games. Its slightly bettet than 980, while 970 is basically same as 780ti.
It's crazy that it can run newer games at 60fps without upscaling
Yeah iGPUs have come a long way
@@RandomGaminginHD No wonder why both Nvidia and AMD have basically given up on making very low-end display adapters as there's no point with doing so when APUs have come a long way.
The funnier thing is Amd had more powerful apu gpu like on PS5/pro or Xbox Ss/x. I wonder why the never see the light on PC.
@@RandomGaminginHD What's fun about this iGPU is that it will have driver support for a long, long time. Interesting to see how it will age compared to the 1060, especially as upscaling and other AI-based techniques improve!
@@MuhammadHaris-w1c It's called Strix Halo. Halo is targeting RTX 4070 mobile.
Rest easy, GTX 1060. You've earned it. A true GOAT.
For sure
one of the best cards i have ever had
and it was on top of the steam hardware statistics for many years
GTX 1060 in 2024
... isn't that to be considered abuse of the elderly?
My friend still uses the 1060 6 gig. It's fine for most esport titles
It runs 2018 or older games at higher refresh rate (around 100 FPS on 1080p) just fine.
Performance is out of this world for an iGPU. But then so is the price...
Nah. Not faster than the gtx970 and it came out in 2014.
@@Al_Lergichow much power does that use?
@@danal8246 148w
@@danal8246 148w
It just doesn't seem impressive to me. It can't beat a decade old mid range GPU.
148W
It just doesn't seem impressive to me. It can't beat a decade old mid range GPU.
appreciate the honest disclosure that you were sent this for free, it bothers me how often tech youtubers don't properly disclose stuff like that
most youtubers seem to think "sponsored" means promotional content where they receive money to make the kind of video the sponsor is asking them to make... but the way youtube wants it, if you received anything of value, you're supposed to mark the video as paid promotion, even if the video is meant to be entirely unbiased.
It's a legal requirement
Only problem is that this mini pc cost me as much as a pre-built pc with i5-13400 + 4060 :O
Of course, laptop chips have better bining for efficiency and are more expensive, and mini PCs have lower volume thus higher prices.
AMD should release a desktop APU based on the Ryzen 370 HX ASAP.
@@rj7250a If their more recent apus are any indication, it will cost $400 and be equally as bad value as the mini-pc.
Paying the sff tax no thx
After warranty, these mini-PCs are dead in water if anything happens, due to lack of standardization in the industry.
Mini-ITX built on iGPU and PicoPSU is similar in size, and fits standard motherboards from variety of manufacturers. But still too large for mounting back of monitor for example.
I wish Intel had pushed for a standard while it was doing NUC. Manufacturers are happy to keep things proprietary, to lock the customer out of other options
@@netiturtle
Sad but true
Good old 1060 6gb. Still relevant for budget gaming at 1080p. I just put one in a build of secondhand components for my daughter's first gaming rig.
Yeah people scoff at budget cards but if it's with not too intensive games they're perfect.
I'd say it's a bit dated by now, i'd rather a 1080TI.
I got a Quadro P2000, which is basically a kneecapped 1060 and it'll play eSports titles just fine on our living room PC. My nephews use it for Minecraft whenever they visit.
@@gamelaine 1080Ti will do 1440p pretty well. Total overkill for 1080p.
I can't wait for the day that iGPU will beat 4090 in terms of performance.
That would be so cool
not sure if I would be more amazed by that igpu or the normal gpus at that time
Considering that on 2025 AMD will make an APU with 4070M like performance
4090 class performance won't be that far, maybe in the next 10 years? Or even less
Thin and light or handheld market is really big right now
@@notificationguys5128ya but those ones are large as opposed to the ones in handhelds and mini PC right now.
I'd say less than a decade from now before large ones hit 4090 performance and like 2 decades for the small ones
Maybe in 2040
iGPUs catching up with dGPUs will always be cool, but the sad reality is that game requirements are increasing at a faster pace. So they will always be stuck at 1080p sub 60 FPS.
Strix halo is coming, 4k is probably playable
But it'll also use more than 100 watts easily@@adamek9750
@@adamek9750 not above 30fps
@@Amy-dq2lg we dont know yet until it comes out, with upscaling+frame gen I bet it will be
With the AI name that must have doubled the price and the FPS, add AI and RGB in one box and you've got 4 x the normal FPS.
5:37 How the hell do you get your hand on a GTX 1060 in that amazing condition? My RX 6900 XT that I bought in 2022 has already shown some sign of corrosion on the heatsink.
Yep, we are there: iGPUs are comparable with popular and still in use medium range dGPUs.
Next step will be targeting the 3060 range. That would be wild.
Strix halo incoming baby!
It's amazing that integrated graphics have come this far!
It's a shame that in order to get to that level you have to spend quite a bit of money compared to a conventional CPU + dGPU solution.
However, for those that don't need the best iGPU out there there are quite a few very capable Ryzen powered mini PCs in the $300-400 range that will easily handle everyday tasks and decent gaming.
WOW man insane little power! :O
You just got a new Subscriber, great video.
Hyped for battlemage? looking forward to you covering them.
the more i see people hyped for battlemage, the more intrigued i get
why is people so interested on intel
intel is well known for cancelling projects and they just want to sell ai gpus for servers, not for desktop pcs to play games
@@arch1107What planet have you been living on? Intel's CPUs have been a staple in gaming rigs for almost 2 decades. The shift to AMD is recent.
For battlemage in particular, their arc series showed that they have the ability to make a decent gpu at a reasonable price, and (somehow) with better ray tracing than AMD despite their newness to the space, but were primarily held back by poor drivers due to their inexperience. Battlemage being their second attempt gives hope that their drivers will launch in a decent state, which would finally give us another serious competitor in the gpu market that could finally help course correct the outrageous prices of their competitors.
@@FataSlayer calm down intel fanboy, stop living in a rock, or go buy 13th and 14th gen cpus and smell the ashes
GTX 10 Series will remain absolutely legendary...such a price to performance win on launch and even now. I don't see us getting back to this sweet spot unfortunately
Do not dispair:
1. China is trying to catch up with GPU chips. Will you bet that a 1B-people country with a national pride in studying and full government backing (including espionage) will never be able to do what ASML of the Netherlands can do?
2. AI might fizzle out. You get a lot of people, some of them very credible engineers, saying AI might be a bubble
3. Intel (or whoever buys them out) are still in the GPU race. They are last - but they are still in the race
4. AMD is almost acceptable value and, with their future line ups failing to reach Nvidia, they might be focusing on the mid-range
@toddheartsound5451 honestly I agree with basically every point here...I ended up getting an rx6900xt simply because of the value proposition there. AI I'm pretty sure truly is a bubble as well. What I'm concerned with is the absolute near monopoly Nvidia has on the GPU market. This makes developers understandably focus on optimizing for their cards exclusively. Things very well may change and I hope they do because it would benefit everyone
@@templet45 There's another one, which especially concerns older gamers like me: Eye-sight.
Human eye-sight isn't getting better with each generation :D And the eyes you were born with are the best you'll ever have.
What I mean by that: I game on 1440p. I tried 4k and can barely tell the difference... Tried it on a very good OLED 70" TV - man I swear when the shooting starts (in the game LOL) I surely didn't notice my game update reverted my settings back to 1440p!
So, 2040, even if I keep most of my eyesight, which is excellent (I can see better than a lot of teens), I would still be happily gaming at 1440p.
Will they add more eye candy and optimise games a lot less? Maybe so (but also: maybe not). So, I think the whole "premium" experience is coming closer to the low end.
Another example is the 9800x3d - does it totally murk every other gaming CPU? Sure!
Are you any worse with a 7800x3d? I don't think so!
Back then things like wafer still cheap. 16nm is like $4000 per wafer back then. 5nm starts at $17, 000 per wafer. And TSMC already said they will increase 5nm price to $20, 000 next year. So upcoming gpu even if they still being built on 5nm they will get more expensive rather than cheaper.
great video! thank you :)
Powerful 'budget' APU is not a real thing. Barely any better than 780m despite having 30% more CUs.
budget apus exist, but not in minipcs, on laptops perhaps, on minipcs, no, you need the itx or atx equivalent pc to have the word budget there
The technology to make insanely powerful APUs already exists and we see them in consoles. Thing is, if they do make them (PCs) like that, then no one (majority) would want to build from regular stand alone components.
You would also need a very good cooling solution to dissipate all that heat
It would basically be a server socket at that point
Problem is console is custom APU. Such design not available with PC modularity. For example with console they use GDDR6 memory to feed the gpu which is needed. On regular pc they can rely only on regular RAM.
I'm pretty sure the majority want above console performance, so would still stick to dGPUs unless they were building a SFF PC or on a strict budget
The performance of super tiny PCs got crazy over the last 4 years
the gtx 1060 was a damn good card when it came out
Amd should make a cut down varient of strix halo like the original one is
16 core 40 compute unit.
And the one with 10-12 core with 32 cu. But we need something like 6-8 core 24 cu. It ll absolutely be on par with 3050 8gb/1660 ti... And a 6 core 20 cu. Which is like 12400+3050 6gb 75 watt in a single chip. (It has to be cheaper btw)
As a previous SFF builder I love these mini PCs and that performance is impressive especially for 50w. Bit of a shame about the plastic case though, I'd like a nice Aluminium case at that price.
You should be able to take the TDP of the mini PC up. This would allow the iGPU to strech it's legs a little and give you more performance. Depending on the mini PC you could actually give the iGPU a slight overclock which helps immensely
The RandomGaming dog getting some screen time 👌
Considering GTX1060 is a mid range card from 8 years ago, I would say that I expected the best iGPU in the market to be better. Would love if there was APU with the power of R5 7600 and RTX 3050 6GB. Don't think I am asking much.
I like this kind of comparisons but people who watch them seem to believe APUs are getting closer to dedicated cards.
They're not, they always perform about as well a 7 year old a mid-range card. In 2018, they performed better than the 7 year older GTX 460.
Maybe I need to make a video of me playing Red Faction (2001) on an office computer (not even an expensive one) from 1999.
iGPUs have been doing a decent job for most of the time. They'll get you playing and that's what matters!
remember the original AMD APUs? they couldn't run ANYTHING reasonably. remember old intel UHD? once again, couldn't run anything reasonably. remember back when integrated graphics were a function of the motherboard and weren't even on the CPU package? even worse. what?
@@schu1324 nah, I was a competitive starcraft 2 player on an HP cheapie laptop which had some intel UHD.
You just dial the settings all the way down, especially resolution and you are in the game.
If the game has no resolution under 1080p than it's just game companies artificially making otherwise good computers obsolete
@@schu1324 AMD APUs' have had a similar power (in proportion) to what we have today at least since Ryzen arrived. Intel is different but they just wanted to provide basic display functionalities or little more so people don't have to buy a GT 710.
@@cicalinarrot i know, i'm referring to the original a-series APUs that were garbage
RDR2 seems to glitch out the amount of VRAM you use. interesting. good video!
There seems to be s bunch of games out there that seem to have a problem with VRAM assignemnt. RDR2 in your video was hobbled by ownly 800 MB of assigned VRAM and I had similiar and even worse problems with IGPUs in Monster Hunter World.
As iGPUs get ever more powerful it's sad that these games don't seem to get ptches. Or maybe it's a drivers thing...
Upscaleing in Stalker 2 makes sense looking at the minimum requirements that call for a 1060 6GB/RX 580 8GB/Arc A750 for 1080p Low 30FPS useing TSR and comparable technologies.
There is a lot of mini itx pc but i love very small and powerfull iGpu monsters
My laptop with a 3070 and an i9 cost about the same as this mini PC, it's amazing what AMD have done with integrated graphics. My old laptop has a 6th gen i5 and a 6GB 1060 and is still capable of gaming at a reasonable level and you can pick up the same laptop for about £350 now.
When the cost comes down on this form factor it will become more desirable. Currently even at the discounted price there are higher/better performing laptops that have the added incentive of a screen. This would have been ideal for our children but I admit having built them both RX 7800xt desktop pcs with 1440p capable monitors for less than the price of the Minisform, they will get far more mileage out of their desktop pcs and have the ability to upgrade easily.
Very nice micro pc with the major issue being at the price , you have no room for upgrades.
the 1060 was an amazing card, rest in peace pascal and the memories made with it
I wonder what the difference would be with higher settings in these games.
How much VRAM was allocated to the 890M, was it dynamic or did you set it to 6GB to equal the 1060?
Amazing, my dog is like yours.
Any chance you could do some more tests in future power limiting the 890m to 10, 15 or 28w? Gives good points of comparison for people interested in lower power performance in handhelds.
Yeah I might include that next time :)
The VRAM usage according to Rivatuner is very low for some games (principally Red Dead Redemption 2). Did you increase the amount of dedicated iGPU VRAM in the BIOS? Some games are fine with requesting/allocating more for VRAM, but some titles don't play nicely with that and really need you to specify it manually. I don't use this chip specifically (I have the V3 Tablet with the 780M), but I specifically allocated 8GB to mine.
What I’d like to see is how this stacks up against the M4 Mac mini. The Mac probably can’t game that well because it’s a Mac but I’d like to see other comparisons.
I'd love to get one of these. They're perfect for work and programming
The 890M is just a bit faster than the 780M, both averaging 15-20% slower than a 1060. Interesting to see it ahead in a couple titles. A 780M system is less than half these HX 370 units though, so it's a tough sell here.
I want to see how much money an IGPU can save in power consumption for a set amount of gaming time in a year vs pc with GPU cost.
I feel as though the rising popularity in recent years of PC handhelds and integrated graphics has really helped cards like the GTX 1060 remain relevant all this time later. While you can’t jamb a 1060 into your Steam Deck, the reality of games running well enough on mobile hardware to enjoy AND people opting in larger enough numbers to play that way keep these oldies but goodies from being e-waste. I still have an i7-3770, GTX 1060 6GB for emulation and older/lighter PC gaming at 1080p, and I am often pleasantly surprised at how well it fares in even more modern titles. It’s like my PC version of a Series S or something. (My main rig is a 12700K paired with a RTX 3080 12GB, and boy does it generate HEAT in the summer time … so my “Series S” is a perfect PC for getting my fix when I don’t need the sauna.
Kind of crazy this is basically equivalent to the PS4 regarding graphics settings and frame rates. Except were 10 years later.
PC APUs are just so far behind the console ones.
Those cp numbers are impressive. I wish there was a handheld with this chip. The allyx is the most powerful model I know of and it won’t do 60+ on 1080 native.
That's pretty impressive! Any chance for a comparison to GTX 1050 Ti?
Yes even you saving energy without a dedicated GPU Saving more space
It's strange seeing GTX 1060 at the bottom of the barrel now, being compared to iGPU's. I remember a time when it used to max out games at 1080p along the RX 480. Time to upgrade, indeed.
I really love the idea of having a mini PC that will run games among other things... but they will at least need to run on console-like chips with console-like prices to be considered. Without an iGPU on par to what's in PS5 Pro it is a waste of 1100$+
PS5 Pro is £700, this isn't all that much more... And for £530 you can get a 7940HS machine with 32GB RAM and a 1TB SSD.
These will drop in price before the PS5 Pro does
I'm still rocking my gtx 1060 gigabyte wind force. Gonna use this until it dies. Still going strong!
Man, iGpus have really come a long way 😃
I'm actually surprised how good the frame timings are. You probably barely had any input lag most of the time.
Some of these feel like the CPU is making a difference, since it's a low power CPU.
Recently learning about loseless scalling frame generation..this APU would likely fly running game with that😊
The GTX-1060 was basically an RX-580/480 competitor, and the RX-570/470 was a bit slower than the RX-580/480...so, is it fair to say that the 890m is roughly an RX-570 in performance?
Roughly yes. Slower in older games, dame or a bit better in newer ones
The 10 series GPUs were god tier cards. I think we will be comparing newer cards and igpus to the 10 series cards for a long time.
try the m4 imac? the 500 dollar one, see how it performs
Did you try to hook up 1060 to minisforum as egpu via usb4?
Do you keep all this stuff you get for your videos, or sell it on? All this stuff can be expensive.
It's sponsored he was given the little pc to review
Tends to take a decade for Igpus to roughly match top tier cards of the time. 1060 is close to a 980 in performance and this beats it in some games so I'm sure the trend I've notices holds up here too. Will take till about 2032 for 4090 performance to be in an Igpu.
I'm a PC gamer and I love the idea of this tiny PC. But at double the price of a PS5 or Xbox X, it's difficult to justify as a gaming device for folks to new to PC gaming or even casual PC gamers.
1:59 many people are probably playing this cause it was cracked recently 😂
The trouble with this model in particular is the "AI Tax"
Because the number of RDNA CUs this iGPU has, is killer for its' form factor!
those are some impressive results from both GPUs.
On the one side we have an iGPU capable of running modern titles at decent framerates.
On the other side the 8 year old 1060 is still going strong after all the time.
Yeah good point both capable in their own way
shockingly good performance
You can get a similar size minipc with a 6600m dedicated gpu for the same price or less. massively better performance. If gaming is your use-case, these 890m machines aren't it
I think part of what we have here is a lack of optimization for the 1060 in newer games. Look at gta 6, its a bit older snd the difference is much more.
How does the 890m work with Ps3 emulation?
2:04 the character limping for sometime after the fall is actually a nice ttention to detail by ubisoft
do you get to keep this kinda stuff or do you need return it
when a youtuber does a review or he keeps the item, or he does a giveaway or he returns it, all depends on the company sending the unit, some youtubers will mention this at the begining of the video, perhaps this channel should begin doing the disclaimer others do
iirc some companies send two units, one for the channel, another for the giveaway, but on most cases the channel must do a review of the unit, because the company doesnt give pcs for free to people, just because
dude, The GTX 1060 is a 2016 8y.o. hardware, if anything this comparison shows that there was barely ANY progress with games and hardware, and that overpriced CPUs have anemic iGPUs that while being "The Fastest" still sukk hard
The whole mini system uses less than half the power of just the GPU.
@@lonyo5377 and costs x6 more. so NOBODY in their right mind CARES about that obsolete slow 8y.o. performance-level trash and about its "efficiency". its NOT a mobile device to overpay that much for obsolete 2016 performance and to care THAT much about power consumption so you are content with anemic iGPU.
@@lonyo5377 any adequate person would get a laptop with WAY FASTER discrete GPU + display/keyboard/battery/touchpad for that money. and would get a WAY BETTER device.
@@lonyo5377 and costs x6 times as much. while having 2016 performance level. its TRASH
@@lonyo5377 anybody in their right mind would buy a way FASTER laptop with discrete GPU + get display, keyboard, touchpad, speakers and battery for that money.
iGPUs sure have come a long way, but the 1060 can still be viable for older titles. Sure as heck not paying that much money for a Mini PC, however!
what's the max vram you can share on those igpu?
can you test it on Unreal Engine (The Matrix open world) ?
half of your ram, so i you have 32 gbs, 16 for the apu
@arch1107 wow for real? that's pretty large..
@@judasthepious1499 these are not the old apus that used 11 mbs when you let them, this thing does perform, more ram always better now
You can skip the AI for the AMD names
well, the npu is there, and amd is proud because intel npu is weaker afik
not like anybody cares, but since people imagine ai is useful, and the company put the ai on the name...
@arch1107 I know someone who's getting into the AI craze, and he can't find any use for the NPU as yet.
Drivers still aren't merged with Linux Kernel, this is planned for february 2025 until then I doubt any open source AI project will be interested to support these NPU, AMD team responsible for those drivers probably drinking and taking drugs all the time instead of working on these or they are braindead.
If you test more games and with higher settings, there will still be a noticable gap between the igpu and the 1060, simply due to memory bandwidth.
Did you retest cod and cyberpunk with higher graphical settings? It is bound to swing heavily in the 1060 favour.
Even older stuff like tomb raider (2013) and sleeping dog will show the apu lagging behind the gpu once you use high and above settings.
Even a super old midrange dedicated GPU still crush igpu in memory bandwidth.
Even the base PS4 crush any modern x64 Apu in terms of memory bandwidth available.
Most of the apu vs gpu test on TH-cam like to use some minimum/low settings tests to show the apu in a better light.
50w max sounds quite amazing! Can you run an external GPU on this..
Was it on purpose to say the price in hundreds and not thousands. Guess It doesn't as much if you say it as ten hundred.. than the other..
Something I noticed. Good video though!
If you talk about only iGPU power, then 50W isn't impressive. It's literally the same as a GTX 1650 Laptop GPU.
My laptop 3070 is drawing 175W at full power and the i9 draws a fair amount as well but the desktop 3070 draws about 220W or 310W for the Ti version so NO a modern GPU won't run at 50W. You'd have to go back to older series cards, like the RX550, even the 1050 draws 75W and the 3050 draws 70W. I suppose they would run at 50W but you'd cap performance.
what about fsr performance?
G'day Random,
Yeah I also don't get why the Laptop GPUs are now called AI*, especially when the the Desktop version of the same architecture is NOT AI* 8*00G but still uses R* 8*00G
I love your "Current APU vs DGPU Performance Comparisons" to see how they are advancing. Seeing how good the 890M performs against the GTX1060 6GB it makes me sad thinking how Awesome R3 2200G/3200G & R5 2400G/3400G were & why can't have a R3 9400G 4c/4t 880M + R5 9400G 4c/8t 890M at about £100-£120 & £150-£170 as an entry to AM5.
When you are gaming for fun on a tight budget why pay for Cores & Threads when you do not need all that CPU performance.
i aint payin a band for a plastic case and integrated graphics.
no one said you have to buy it, it was being presented the apu performance on this machine, no one told you to go buy it, why are you upset, is it because you have a 1060 and feel old now?
@arch1107 gee thanks, i thought i was being held at gunpoint
I remember when the Ryzen 2000G lineup came out and people were saying iGPUs were the future. Yea, no.
For gaming purposes, these mini PCs leverage occulink to use an eGPU.
Oh well.. my gtx1060 once upon a time was a recommended spec for a new released game. Now its literally at igpu level . Even minimum requirement nowaday is 1070 lol .. wht a time to be alive 🗿
7500mhz or mts?
Those iGPUs have come a long way since the days of potato-land, that's for sure! To think that the best iGPU can match a 1060 6GB... oh wow, I remember when the 1060 was the most used graphics card on Steam!
As for the Minisforum box, that is IMO quite expensive for what it is, 32GB soldered RAM is a big no-no (yes it's 32GB, but that's not much when my HP OMEN has 32GB DDR4 and my main PC has 128GB DDR4) and personally I wouldn't go for such a PC unless I really, and I mean really, needed an ultra small form factor machine.
No one should be expecting an iGPU to be out performing most dGPU's- & it's not what they're made for, that said- most ppl don't know your PS4, PS5/PS5 Pro, XBox's, SteamDeck, & ASUS Ally & Aya Neo are all running AMD's gaming GPU's.
Make sure you have Adjustable BAR enabled, XMP 1-3, (Intel) or D.O.C.P. or EXPO for AMD (In your B.I.O.S.).
These are made mostly to give Intel a run for their $$. Compared to one of R7/9 Ryzen X3D the 890m is low end. Also it's a good idea to have a min of 32Gigs* of system ram & have fast ram on board as the iGPU's have to use it as a texture cache, which by default is much slower than GDDR ram on a normal GPU. Mine has 64G, of the fastest my board could use. AMD makes much faster / efficient use of the available system ram unless you have an Intel Core i7/i9 14900. I run any game that isn't over about 18Gigs directly off a RamDrive, so loading & caching textures is about 2x as fast as it is loading from your std NVME drive.
If you are running on older hardware or have older GPU's lookup Lossless Scaling on steam. (My travel laptop is an i9 11900H w/iGPU- not Dedicated) best $7.00 I've ever spent on steam. It lets you use BOTH AMD & Nvidia's scaling, resolution, frame gen & others at the same time on the same game. My #'s avg about 12-25% higher than avg in framerate with the tweaks I use, & for games that are coded well, or are made to use those features guarantee's a bit more.
*Win 11 can eat 18-22Gigs of ram with nothing running on crappily set up & bloated systems.
Over $1k for 2015 performance? Not exactly stellar for modern PC gaming. Too expensive for an emulation station. I think I'll hold on to my money.
I have to admit, i don't really see the appeal of this Mini Pc's. I'd either buy/build a full size or sff PC with the ability to add a GPU easily or i'd buy a laptop with a dedicated GPU for less money than this. These mini pc's seem like they have the disadvantages of both and the advantages of neither.
I don't either, it's not a laptop and not a desktop so the use case for something like this is fairly niche. I can't see companies ditching their Dell machines to get this either so I don't know who this mini PC is aimed at!
Far out that was unexpected!
Amazing performance for 50 watts
Yeah very efficient
Why I dumped my 1070 machine at the beginning of the year. Served me right for 3 years though
Smol doggo cameos :)
Test the AMD R5 240 in Crossfire in Different Games
So you could 100% play 1st gen PCVR on a iGPU at this point. And on 50W.
I remember when 680M catch up with gtx 1050 desktop, then later 780M say hi to gtx 1050ti.
Now 890M is tickling gtx 1060. Haha..
Next, presumably, Strix Halo will show its fists to RTX 4060 ?
And also Intel iGPU is getting stronger; next year would be interesting.
5600g do the latest warzone lowest setting 860p nicely with an aggressive overclock 👌
Try with high graphic settings and you will see 50 to 80 percent difference of raw FPS.
Strix Halo when?