There’s still quite a lot of cheese in the sekiro run. Think there’s a similar amount in ds3 where they also have to do quite a lot of dealing with the full move sets of enemies/bosses.
Oh my GOODNESS, Bro... BRO... Is he Gourd-Baiting Genni to Finishing Blow?!?!? I've never seen this Tech before, PLEASE tell me they actually call it Gourd-Baiting.
Yeah I went into this game with the parry/dodge mindset and it absolutely made it harder. Until I changed my baseline thinking I didn't like this game. Now I like it, it's not my favorite. Bloodborne is my favorite souls. And this game has more in common with bloodborne ascetics with the combat then any other in my opinion.
Agreed, especially the tail weapons. Id like to see more variety in that, put it together with breaking limbs. Like an amygdala fight where you break her arm off and can immediately beat her with it would be a sick combination of the break it to get a weapon and gimmick weapon fight.
In Elden ring you can cut the limbs off of land octopuses and they can regrow back, i wish they would do more stuff like than in bosses or any more important mob
@@tankblaster7438 oh yeah, same. I'm currently on Genichiro. First tried him or so I thought, turned out he had a 3rd phase and I had no heals for his 3rd phase 🥲 all I felt was pain
On the discussion of bosses people like: I think it's a case of understanding bosses. The Erdtree Avatars are very easy to understand, they have a limited movepool with very clear and defined reaction to each move. If golden slam, dodge into. If rot slam, dodge behind. If Golden Land, run away and strafe, then re-engage. The boss becomes a test of your mechanics because you understand how they work as an entity A boss I love and go out of my way to fight, but I've heard others dislike, is Elemer of the Briar/ Bell Bearing Hunters. My first playthrough I bashed my head against that boss, underleveled and underprepared, for hours. Until I finally understood exactly how he works. How he determines his attacks, how I need to react to every attack, his parry windows, his shield slam and it's explosion varient, everything. Meanwhile a boss I hate but have heard others love is Radahn. To me, he's a giant mess of effects that don't have hitboxes, attacks that I think should hit me but are actually fine, and a schizophrenic AI that just does random stuff. I don't understand him and every fight with him for me devolves into a fuster cluck, but that's entirely my own fault because I don't understand how he works TL;DR the easier a boss is to "figure out" the more likely people will enjoy it, because people tend to dislike the fights they don't understand. Eventually they learn the fight though, and either stop disliking it or come to like it.
I feel similarly. It was a big mind boggling for me to see people putting radahn in their 'best fights in the series' list because beyond the spectacle of the fight... It's just not that good lol. It felt like half of radahns moveset was working against him, and it was trial and error not to learn dodge patterns, but rather just what moves will just straight up miss you cause the horseback gimmick.
i always kill the erdtree avatars with catch flame at level 10 and its never a problem because i know their entire moveset, same for elemer of briar both bosses have simple movesets
Some bosses can be annoying to deal with as well, like those wooden worm tree things? XD But more than that… I absolutely just hate catacombs in ER, the annoying traps, and stone dudes just are not fun to deal with, or the catacombs in Radahn’s area with the soldiers that dont die. I just find them annoying… and dread doing them. I also dislike the path to get to Melania. XD The city with invis assassins, light bonfires, big bubble guy, then the annoying bug things that dont stop spamming pest threads at you.
The problem with Elden Ring Replayability for me personally is that the exploration was so amazing the first time through. By the third time+ through, though, I never discovered anything, so my play became checking the boxes for whatever build I wanted. It changed my relationship to the game.
I think the thing that allows players to be the aggressors in Sekiro it the ability to cancel startup into a block and low endlag in general. In a souls game, attacking first is just asking to trade hits, but Sekiro allows you to play aggressive and then defend whenever you need to. I grantee modding the Sekiro sword into elden ring would make it play like you describe, boss design isn't the main factor here.
I don’t know if you have played many fighting games, but I actually find it’s basically that Sekiro is a platform fighter, and Souls is a trad fighter.
That is a huge thing I don't see mentioned often. A similar system is in God of War where you can pretty much go from any attack, except runic attacks, and just start dodging, blocking, or parrying any attack. I understand that Elden Ring kind of needs a way to punish you for doing an attack at a dumb time, but Sekiro really lets you react to moves instead of just punishing you for getting action read and blasted by a 5 minute combo
I think the thing hindering Elden Ring's replayability is not that there's a lot to do but the fact that unless you're insanely good, there's a lot you _have_ to do. Like, every run, you gotta run around Weeping Peninsula to collect all the flask upgrades; every run you gotta run across half the map to find the weapon you want and go into a bunch of boring side dungeons for every talisman and whatever else
I recommend you to do a no uprages run. This will make you better at the bosses because it will take longer to kill them and if you focus on leveling vitality you wont die as easily and will be able to learn the bosses movesets more easily. Also doing a run like this will give you a better understanding of what weapons are good against wich bosses, like some bosses with large health pools being easy targets for bleed and frost damage because it is dealt as a percentage damage instead of flat damage. Also you wont have to look for upgrade materials all the time and you can just swap between your weapons without worrying if they are upgraded. If you are struggling with late games bosses you can always get the bell bearings and just buy a couple of upgrade materials to even the playing field.
i personally dont think the souls games are that good for replayability on general. They are somewhat replayable because they are good games and you can try a new build. There isnt a lot of randomness so to me roguelikes and arpgs are the games i come back to.
NG+ solves all of these issues. If you’re playing casually, I highly recommend just doing this. Plus it adds fun challenge to each subsequent playthrough
I feel like the boss you're talking about with the changed up combos and attack speed exists: the Bell Bearing Hunters. They can change their combos mid-sequence, they have insane range and almost no margin for error. And to me, they encroach on the level of bullshit difficulty, especially the one in Dragonbarrow; either you fight him perfectly or you die.
Their combos are still always the same. There's one or two minor variations depending on your distance to them but once you know those differences you can still 100% predict everything they'll do from the first attack windup. You can even predict whether they'll do that red explosion after the shield bash. That said I agree that they're a bit too punishing. I find the Bell Bearing Hunters really fun to fight but there is almost no margin for error and trying to heal is basically a death sentence unless you are very familiar with all the attack patterns. If a boss does actual mixing of combos that would require much slower combat, more like DS1/2 than Elden Ring in terms of tempo. I think FromSoft pushed it to the limit with Malenia who can seamlessly chain 5+ attacks with no time to heal, I have the impression she's coded to do that aggressive chaining if the player has low health but I might be wrong.
Agreed. The hypothetical boss he's describing would be bs, since there would never be a time to attack without the risk of being hit back harder. Bell bearing hunters do feel like that too
@@loganalleman Honestly the Bell Bearing Hunters are fine as long as you learn to fight them at close range. Barely ever roll away. They are still shit to learn though.
@@loganalleman you could still run away from attacks and heal. That would just be up to the developers. If a boss is programmed to stay hyperaggressive on you and close any gap it'd be bullshit, but if a boss is like Margit or Malenia, who either like to do sidesteps or walk slowly towards, you it'd be perfectly reasonable. Also bosses like that could have 5-10 different moves which they chain randomly. Some people would love that. I would certainly hate fighting late game bosses like that. I think bosses are already hard enough with delayed attacks and mild changes in their combos. Though maybe that'd be something rewarding for NG+ runs, but i can't imagine the coding nightmare for such a boss fight. As @SaHaRaSquad said if they'd make a game with slower combat like in DS1 i think i could enjoy such bosses, but i don't think FS will make (souls) games with such slow combat anymore.
@@SaHaRaSquad if you want to heal when fighting malenia, you have to get close to her and let her attack then you heal. I think this only works for certain attacks, but I forget which ones. This only applies to phase 2 cuz in phase 1 imo healing is pretty easy.
More bosses like Margit/Morgott, where directional rolling is required rather than blindly rolling every attack. I would really like if a boss in a tradional souls combat just straight up dodges your attack like what Ishin would do, or that Elden arts mod in sekiro, Father owl would simply use mistraven and mess up your rhythm.
@@suchar7175 Lady maria and Fried doesn't dodge attacks they just simply moves around, whereas Ishin actually have an and counterattacks which I'm more akin about.
Mohg same way with his mix ups though. Depending on his combo you dodge in a certain direction on reaction to it. Plus having a good flow to the fight is important
14:41 i think being reaction based would make sekiro way too hard, like this can be seen in inner ishin’s first phase, if you deflect once and attack he can stop blocking and punch you getting into his punch and sweep attack combo, it’s unpredictable and can be pretty frustrating if you’re trying to no hit him, if the game was a bit slower like other souls games Ig that might work
Man hearing you talk about “a fighting game, but like against bosses and PvE” in a Souls context makes me think of Sloclap’s games, Absolver and Sifu They’re kinda like Souls-inspired fighting games. I haven’t seen much of your content, so I don’t know if you’ve played them or not, but if you haven’t I’d highly recommend them. They could probably even be great ones to no-hit, as they *do* have strings of attacks they can chain together randomly, in reaction to your inputs, and an in-built feint system that means at times they can cancel out of their attack and immediately start a new one First thing I thought of when hearing that discussion in the vid, I think they fit your criteria perfectly
Do you guys know? In yesterday stream, Gino was attempting God Run 3 & got to the last game(game 7) which was Sekiro & Got hit to Gyoubu! Gino will probably complete the God Run 3 within a month or 2 months atmost!
Sekiro is my favorite game of all time, the free-flowing and satisfying gameplay loop along with the Japanese aesthetic is beautiful. I can agree though that some bosses and certain aspects of the gameplay can and probably will be implemented and improved in future souls games. I feel that some bosses don't have that grandiose and poise that some bosses in other souls games have, some of the bosses in Sekiro feel like only an obstacle rather than an actual duel with respect. Adding a splash of random would be kinda cool, though i'm not sure if I would like it
I think if i could instantly fight any boss, rememberance or not once you've beaten them i would play the shit out of elden ring, I did the same with headless ape for a whole day after i beat him and now hes my fave boss
Adding to the talk, I think they could experiment with roll cancelling moves or feints in the future. I think it wouldn't hurt and allow for more complex movesets.
Mohg does this but in mix ups that require different rolls to successfully dodge and it’s perfect but yea if they make that more complex would be great but the problem is you can’t cancel your own animations in souls besides sekiro
Replaying Elden ring is basically looking up a checklist of which caves to beeline to, to get items for the build you want to try. I played it through once, trying to do everything I could and I could not stomach starting another character straight away. Granted trying to fully clear each area before moving on definitely reveals the repetitive nature of caves and tombs level design and the seemingly endless repeat bosses. I rolled my eyes after the 8th dragon, 5th death bird and 3rd star beast…. And as a PvP player ER just felt extremely disappointing, we talk about all these options and build variety but any invader will tell you they see the same 5-6 builds or weapons over and over. So I mean what is the point of variety if 90% of the community will gravitate to a few styles or weapons? I know it isn’t everyone but man it’s uninspiring. I personally think bloodbourne and sekiro are the most engaging from games from a single player perspective. But for PvP I genuinely think ER is overrated and I personally had more fun in DS3 PvP. I really appreciate having to die over and over to a boss to learn their move sets and how to effectively counter and punish. The more linear games forced this learning process (unless your that guy that overlevels) and in turn brought a sense of accomplishment and satisfaction when you did finally beat the boss. This doesn’t really seem to exist in ER as most players will simply leave the area if a boss is seemingly too difficult and come back when they are way stronger, therefore rinsing the boss and not really feeling anything other than “did I just cuck myself out of a potentially great boss fight?”. I digress the open world I feel is a gimmick that wore off fairly quick for me…I mean realistically how many times you beat a cave boss, see the reward and think…”man that was pointless”?
That's why I just play it like a souls game. As simple as possible, and not trotting outside the area, until I've beaten the local remembrance. Hell, with no weapon upgrades, bosses like Margit and Godrick still take less than 3 minutes to kill. Why would I waste 40 minutes to make a fight I like last 20 seconds? It's anticlimactic, it's boring. Not to mention, I hate farming.
@@glorytoukraine5524 yeah I tried, but I also made the mistake of not going to peninsula before stormveil and that kinda effed things up too…but at the same time I haven’t seen a lot pushing the player to go south before stormveil. So that area became pretty much face tanking everything….whereas a more linear game design wouldn’t really allow for that.
@@jwalton1915 fully agree. If you don't know in advance that weeping penninsula is technically a part of limgrave, you'll never go there on your own until much later, when you happen to stumble upon it. It feels way more natural to follow the path through stormveil, right into Liurnia.
@@glorytoukraine5524 yeah maybe a little more direction (without handholding) could have helped with the “intended” progression path. Possibly would have solved a lot of my problems potentially. But nonetheless I feel the linearity of past games brought so much achievement in beating a boss that felt few and far between in ER…to me at least.
the genchiro way of tomoe fight, the strategy he took was hilarious geni was like "Please i beg you stop using healing items my back is literally broken by the amount of thrursts and mikiris" Lmfaoooooooooo
I feel like replayability depends on how much content there is, it's variety, if is required, and the quality of the content. With Elden ring what lowers it's replayability isn't that there is too much content, it's just the content that's required isn't especially fun. Getting all of the seeds, tears, and smithing stone bell bearings needed to complete a run surely is a lot of content, but it's more or less just a time dump. A lot of content is good if that content has a lot of variety and is of high quality, even if it is required content if it's good it's good, but if it's bad then it's just a slog getting in the way of the next new playthrough.
4:48 The one thing that makes NG+ runs near unplayable for me is losing all bell bearings upon starting a new game cycle. It just demolishes the flow for me, now I have to look up all the locations again and speedrun to get them if I want to upgrade and experiment with different weapons. It’s a pain. …And literally as I finished typing the above paragraph, I looked it up and a patch was added to make them carry over since I’ve last attempted to go into a ng+ cycle. However I’ve already finished typing the comment out so pretend that this comment is someone from the past responding to the video LOL
For me personally the best bosses are the ones with unique mechanics; what I mean by that is fights like Deacons of the Deep, Yhorm, the Giant, Rykard, Lord of Blasphemy, Curse-Rotten Greatwood, Crystal Sage, High Lord Wolnir, Mimic Tear (if it wasn’t so easy to cheese) and of course Rennala, though her fight is pretty much Deacons of the Deep with an extra phase. I forget the name but DS3 even had a dragon boss where you could 1 shot him but in order to do so you had to run past a bunch of enemies and up a ladder to jump onto his head lol. Been a long time since I played the old Souls games and I only finished Sekiro once so I’ve no doubt missed a bunch off the list, but those for me are the ones that stand out the most and feel more rewarding than the other boss fights purely down to the fact that you have to think outside of the standard offence/defence play style!
Ngl I love this game for that fact u have to fight u don’t run away and doge the whole time u gotta have a sword fight and Kerry and keep hitting. Way better then spamming a roll button to run away
I definitely see your point about replayability. For me I like to do all the content whenever I play a game, whether first time or tenth time, and in a game like Dark Souls 3 I can do that while using a different build each time I do all the content while also not having to sink a ton of time in to do it. With Elden Ring the investment to do a run where I do all the content is much higher, and I just feel weird skipping past content so i feel compelled to do everything, and the result is I tend to fall off pretty quickly into replaying it. It's entirely just a preference thing though.
It's so interesting to me that a game I did not enjoy or appreciate at any point during my playthrough of it is so beloved by so many. My eyes roll into the back of my skull just looking over to this "Refined to perfection" in reference to this game that I'm seeing in my recommended. I'm happy that we aren't all the same.
@@BLAM5980 It just wasn't really for me. I didn't feel like I had enough time to really breathe in that game, everything was so obnoxious and over tuned, and I especially didn't like the "rhythm" paced combat. Once the idea that you're really just mashing 1 button to a specific timing creeped into my mind, the novelty faded pretty quickly. I don't think it's a bad game at all. I could absolutely see why people like it as much as they do. I just think it's exceptionally overrated and I enjoyed Bloodborne's approach to fast combat far more. On a more shallow note, I hate being pigeon holed into a specific role in most RPGs. Unless they're done pretty well (For example, Booker from Bioshock or John Marston from Red Dead) I'm not going to feel very invested in what I'm doing. I did not care about Wolf at all. I didn't care about Kuro at all. The game wasn't written in a way that was compelling to me. I also especially didn't like how I didn't feel like my character was my own in the RPG I was playing. I was just "Wolf". I could add a combat art here or there but it was never me, it was always Wolf. Again, there are ways to do good "light" RPG elements. I just didn't think Sekiro did them all that well. World is gorgeous. Music is incredible. Sound design is great. Again, the game is not bad. I just didn't care for it.
@@YangBalanceYinthat's interesting, because I really didn't jive with booker from bioshock for almost the same reason that you didn't jive with wolf. Timing based combat isn't for everyone, true. But it's definitely more than just one button in Sekiro.
@@YangBalanceYin I understand everything you’ve said, and it’s unfortunate. Hopefully, in the future, you can give it another shot and actually enjoy it. Apparently that happens often to people with these games.
On replayability, I am a giant sekiro fan i love all the souls games but sekiro is the one I replayed the most personally simply because of the way the game continues to become more and more satisfying to play the better you get at the game in a way that is definitely different from the ways it oculd be said are true of the other souls games. I also just appreciate how the combat system and enemies are able to become so refined when they aren't meant to take into account a wide range of possible rpg builds like in the other games. I could go more in depth but I'll leave it at that.
i really like the draconic tree sentinel in elden ring, its just so satisfying to fight once you learn it (and dont just come back in a repeat playthrough at level 70+ and its little more than a speedbump)
The thing you are describing the whole stream is exactly what you are playing right now. The developers also thought that they could change up the combat of the souls games, and then they developed sekiro. The reason they didn't only change the combat and left everything else as it is, is because that wouldn't work. People have certain expectation on souls games and you can't just completely throw over the combat. If you are changing a key mechanic of the game you have to adapt all the other aspects of the game as well. And that's how it became sekiro at the end instead of another souls game. We don't know if the birth of sekiro was really only because of the combat or because they wanted to do something new or something else but the end results are the same.
they definitely played it safe and develop both Sekiro and DS3 at the same time by 2 teams. I guess DS3 numbers were better so they went with it in Elden Ring.
bro 3mins in and I'm like "I get f*cking annoyed if a fart breaks my concentration on a fight" this dudes reading chat, giving out strats and picking his nose (ok I added that last part). Some people are a different breed.
the discussion about how the roll and punish combat system was standard until sekiro got me thinking about monster hunter world and rise's DLCs, cause both add new core combat mechanics (a grapple in world and mid-fight moveset swapping for rise) and while i dont expect fromsoft to do this in the ER DLC, i would be very down
I think that no hit runs for sekiro should have the charm modded in to confirm the run because it causes you to suffer chip damage if you dont deflect, idk if its a good idea or not
when sekiro first came out no hit runners did runs without kuros charm but stopped doing it because it changes the amount of damage bosses take making it harder than the base game. Also you dont need the chip damage to know if it was a perfec parry or not
I think the combat he is referring to (in my opinion) is God of War Valkyrie Queens Gna and Sigrun type combat / reaction time esc because they never do the same set of moves exactly, they always do something different after doing a certain attack.
8:40 The issue with having a deep build crafting system, it becomes impossible to not only balance the player’s strength, but the bosses’ too. It can be done, but in a game like Sekiro, which it’s fair combat is the main component to the game, doing what you mentioned would compromise that.
What he's talking about at around 12:55 about Sekiro being kinda boring for him because boss fights are 'reactive' and he wants more variety and randomness, my advice is to play Inner Father on demon bell charmless. That boss embodies all of his desires as close as possible, and coincidentally it's the best boss in Sekiro edit: also the desire to have boss fights and gameplay where you're the aggressor the entire time...yeah just play Sekiro on demon bell charmless. That's the game you're asking for. edit 2: idk if you're reading this gino, but you can get two hits on isshin then dodge before he does his ichimonji
Gino’s idea to have bosses vary the speed of their repeated attacks and mix up combos mid-combo sounds absolutely terrible. Getting through a fight without taking hits would be nigh impossible. Fromsoft bosses from DS3 onwards already have complex movesets with attack timings that are often difficult to learn as is. Making that steep learning curve even steeper would kill mainstream interest in the series. It’s the kind of idea that only makes sense to people that have already beaten the game so many times, sometimes under severe handicaps, that they’ve forgotten how much they struggled to beat the game for the first time.
On the discussion regarding attacks and more attacks/mixups/attackspeeds I think Monsterhunter (I like World/Iceborn alot) does this type of stuff. Shure it is no soulslike or soulsborne but I felt like it had its similarities. Basically every Monster has like... alot of moves and depending on if its enraged or hurt and the moves can be slower/ easier to read if its like almost dead. And if you break certain parts of theyr body the can sometimes even hurt themselves with some of the attacks they do. It feels relly nice to cut of the tail of for example Tobikadachi and seeing it desperatley trying to hit you. AAANYWAYS Im honestly not even shure if its what your even looking for but i immediatley had to think abt that game you probably wont even read this or play mhw but i wish you a good day anyway bye ^^
I think the stuff he’s looking isn’t going to show up in a souls like considering I feel like most of the stuff he’s looking for is actually completely against what made souls likes popular in the first place. When people say hard but fair they actually mean is enemies that will kill you if you don’t remain patient and follow their patterns and pace without being too overwhelmingly difficult otherwise. It isn’t like the games he’s looking for don’t exist like in MHW. Funnily enough the old monster hunter games are similarly if not more pattern based than souls. Another example I can think of is the ninja gaiden 2004. Now they do definitely have their pattern oriented difficulty but with the multi enemy fights the game can give you some very difficult to dodge patterns but if you record it and look back, due to the amount of options you have there was almost always a way to avoid damage. As well some of the bosses/enemies can be seriously unpredictable because of the games weird enemy dodge/block mechanics and some of the dodge cancelling and various insane sh*t the ai is capable of. Still almost always dogeable but you have to be reacting incredibly well. The funny thing is I think he would end up hating this type of stuff he says he wants considering he has said before he likes things to be consistent. Would like to see what he would think about either game tbh but we probably won’t see that. I think he would especially hate ninja gaiden 2004.
@@porkwhisperer3050 thats very intresting honestly. I prob wont look too deep into it but will def check 2004 and the old old mh out some time. And yes, eventho chances are slim.. like very slim.. I WOULD BE SOOO EXCITED SEEING HIM PLAY ICEBORNE
Someone in chat said that they want another game with a similar posture system I hope you’ve heard of the Jedi Fallen Order and Jedi Survivor games, they are a bit easier, but imo they scratch the same itch that Sekiro scratches. For me, I actually played Sekiro back when it came out but I just gave up on Genichiro, I simply couldn’t do it, but between that and my second attempt now, I’ve played DS3, Elden Ring, Jedi Fallen Order and Jedi Survivor, and when I came back, after applying everything I learned with especially the Jedi games, the combat just CLICKED. It clicked in a way I’ve never felt it click before. Granted, I’m still stuck on Genichiro (I am not that great on these kinds of games), but I have zero intention on giving up this time. I’m so fucking close, I just keep choking on the last phase.
Here's my casual pleb take regarding ex. ER bosses Gino: I've beaten ER twice (fresh starts, no NG+) and I'm currently trying to beat EVERY boss while taking no damage/minimal damage. What I've learned about myself that I didn't know is that, if a boss has patterns that are easier to learn, then the challenge and the satisfaction of (finally) understanding them is greater. Example of a boss I hate with a passion are the Tree Spirits. They're too much, and I don't find it fun, and I don't find the challenge of learning them fun. I think people like bosses where, you can actually see what they're doing. Tree Spirits and Radahn to name two, is a put off for many (including me, I don't get Radahn and I never will) because you cant' see shit. There's more to it, and it's not as simple as that to be fair. I used to not like Malenia, now I find her to be an enjoyable challenge. I still can't reasonably or comfortably beat her, but I can see my own progress every time, and the satisfaction of being able to flat out negate 2 or even A move because I learned, is greater than any tree spirit fight I will ever fight
People like erdtree avatars because they don't have weird timings, they are consistent and very familiar considering how many of them there are. They have clear windows to attack and dont do long drawn out combos that leave you running like a scared child.
Erdtree avatar does have that long winded 1 swing attack. It just that erdtree's model is just big enough so you can keep it inside your screen center. Very solid hitbox so less chance to miss your charged attack. And it doesnt dodge your spell. Kindred Gargoyle is on the opposite. Weird hitbox, weapon clipped through the ground, can jump back often and perform massive aoe attack that 1 shot anything.
@@JumpCatStudio102This comment is funny to me cus Black Blade Kindred (the sword one, fuck twinblades) is my favorite overworld boss for the same reason ppl like Erdtree Avatars. I spent hrs fighting him underleveled on my first run and so learned his patterns completely, he's actually extremely predictable. You're right abt his kind of fucky hurtbox, but all his attacks are distinct, highly telegraphed, and can be dodged the same way every time, even more so in halberd mode. I think ppl dislike him because unlike erdtree avatars, theres only one of him, he mainly just drops runes and he's in dragonbarrow so his damage is insane and unforgiving, so ppl are more likely to either die instantly, ignore him or one shot him w/o learning the attacks. I love him though. He is my special boy and I fight him as soon as I meet gurranq for a free 80k runes. Fuck his bastard twinblade brother though, the hitboxes on those attacks are bullshit.
Cmon man how do u die to the folding screen monkeys, just pop a Gachiin sugar and sneak up behind them. Honestly one of the easiest main bosses that fromsoft has put out
15:00 I also want this. I know exaxtly what you're talking about and I feel like there is a way to achieve it. It's going to take some serious machine learning/ AI work. Especially on the balancing side of things. We would need a way to also give the player a lot more freedom. I do have some ideas.
I think combat based guard counters and trades could play a very key role in making your idea work. There are lots of ways that it can be made to work.
Erdtree avatar was the only boss I learned😅. I played through twice, first time using spirit summons and overpowering and staggering bosses with str/fth. The other time was as a wizard and that required no brain power
On your subject on replayability: I’ve replayed Sekiro more times than Elden Ring but I’ve spent far more time playing Elden Ring. The comparison between the two regarding “replayability” is like comparing apples to oranges.
id love if they would change normal enemies (like from elden ring, i feel like you either one hit them, or stunlock immediately) it'd be kinda cool if you actuqlly had to fight with them (more like sekiro minnibosses)
It's really hard and time consuming to animate a boss's moveset, blend those animations in an AI, that can then be turned into a balanced fight. Elden Ring took around 4 years to develop as is. Making enemies half as sophisticated as the bosses would multiply that timeframe by a lot. Cool idea, but neither feasible, nor worth it. May I add, people are complaining about the bosses already. Can you imagine the article spam from "game journalists" if regular enemies were hard?
Kuro: “How many times have you died and come back for my sake?”
Wolf: “I can die and come back?”
Imagine if ishin kills him at the end and they're both surprised he can come back to life
He dies in that cutscene
@@muhamadluqmaan7361 2 times
Sekiro is probably the most fun to watch for hitless, because you actually have to get good and there’s minimal cheese compared to all the souls games
Yes
There’s still quite a lot of cheese in the sekiro run. Think there’s a similar amount in ds3 where they also have to do quite a lot of dealing with the full move sets of enemies/bosses.
Lmao you have no idea about sekiro if you think that there is minimal cheese
"Minimal cheese" LMFAO what are you on
I don't know any cheeses I just know bull and ogre skip I guess? But those aren't really a cheese
12:55 “Sekiro is a very hard game with little room for error” I say to myself, crying in the corner
Oh my GOODNESS, Bro... BRO... Is he Gourd-Baiting Genni to Finishing Blow?!?!? I've never seen this Tech before, PLEASE tell me they actually call it Gourd-Baiting.
@@robbyloux i literally figured this out a week ago while i was messing around, crazy to see its used in a no hit run
@@theeliteterrarian1888yeah it has been a thing since the game’s release. Not really often used though but it’s a thing
Yeah I went into this game with the parry/dodge mindset and it absolutely made it harder. Until I changed my baseline thinking I didn't like this game. Now I like it, it's not my favorite. Bloodborne is my favorite souls. And this game has more in common with bloodborne ascetics with the combat then any other in my opinion.
Im still kinda new to the game but is there anything i should keep in mind? In terms of how to fight and the parrying stuff
Mechanics like breaking limbs in bloodborn or cutting off a tail to get a weapon from ds1 are things I would really like to see again in future games.
Agreed, especially the tail weapons. Id like to see more variety in that, put it together with breaking limbs. Like an amygdala fight where you break her arm off and can immediately beat her with it would be a sick combination of the break it to get a weapon and gimmick weapon fight.
@user-lk5ud7ux7l that would be sick, and make much more sense than having a random godkiller just coincidentally lying around the arena.
In Elden ring you can cut the limbs off of land octopuses and they can regrow back, i wish they would do more stuff like than in bosses or any more important mob
games like monster hunter have mechanics like this and it would be really fun to see it done in a souls game
That Genichiro mikiri loop was insane, I have to try it
no input reading involved in that fight, none at all
Third phase leaps at you if you heal from across the arena, very cheap
@@MasttaGamma yeah but every boss has a estus punish geni just has the most
@@MasttaGammayeah, whenever i heal he says: well, i Guess i Will deal 1 heal worth of damage
Props to you for not only doing this No Hit, but also trying to explain your idea for almost the entire damn stream lol.
Sekiro is easily my favorite game they’ve made, the combat just feels so much better and it’s way more exciting to master
Wild that I see this as I'm busy with my very first playthrough of Sekiro
Same and it’s the hardest game I’ve ever played🥲
Same. I got my ass kicked insanely hard.
@@tankblaster7438 oh yeah, same. I'm currently on Genichiro. First tried him or so I thought, turned out he had a 3rd phase and I had no heals for his 3rd phase 🥲 all I felt was pain
Same hardest ever
I’m stuck on guardian ape for my first play through
On the discussion of bosses people like: I think it's a case of understanding bosses. The Erdtree Avatars are very easy to understand, they have a limited movepool with very clear and defined reaction to each move. If golden slam, dodge into. If rot slam, dodge behind. If Golden Land, run away and strafe, then re-engage. The boss becomes a test of your mechanics because you understand how they work as an entity
A boss I love and go out of my way to fight, but I've heard others dislike, is Elemer of the Briar/ Bell Bearing Hunters. My first playthrough I bashed my head against that boss, underleveled and underprepared, for hours. Until I finally understood exactly how he works. How he determines his attacks, how I need to react to every attack, his parry windows, his shield slam and it's explosion varient, everything. Meanwhile a boss I hate but have heard others love is Radahn. To me, he's a giant mess of effects that don't have hitboxes, attacks that I think should hit me but are actually fine, and a schizophrenic AI that just does random stuff. I don't understand him and every fight with him for me devolves into a fuster cluck, but that's entirely my own fault because I don't understand how he works
TL;DR the easier a boss is to "figure out" the more likely people will enjoy it, because people tend to dislike the fights they don't understand. Eventually they learn the fight though, and either stop disliking it or come to like it.
Honestly my least favorite fight in er is rykard, i understand the fight. I just hate it
I feel similarly. It was a big mind boggling for me to see people putting radahn in their 'best fights in the series' list because beyond the spectacle of the fight... It's just not that good lol. It felt like half of radahns moveset was working against him, and it was trial and error not to learn dodge patterns, but rather just what moves will just straight up miss you cause the horseback gimmick.
i always kill the erdtree avatars with catch flame at level 10 and its never a problem because i know their entire moveset, same for elemer of briar both bosses have simple movesets
@@rhorantyko7796and the camera can’t see what im hitting half the goddamn time
Some bosses can be annoying to deal with as well, like those wooden worm tree things? XD
But more than that… I absolutely just hate catacombs in ER, the annoying traps, and stone dudes just are not fun to deal with, or the catacombs in Radahn’s area with the soldiers that dont die.
I just find them annoying… and dread doing them. I also dislike the path to get to Melania. XD The city with invis assassins, light bonfires, big bubble guy, then the annoying bug things that dont stop spamming pest threads at you.
The problem with Elden Ring Replayability for me personally is that the exploration was so amazing the first time through. By the third time+ through, though, I never discovered anything, so my play became checking the boxes for whatever build I wanted. It changed my relationship to the game.
I think the thing that allows players to be the aggressors in Sekiro it the ability to cancel startup into a block and low endlag in general. In a souls game, attacking first is just asking to trade hits, but Sekiro allows you to play aggressive and then defend whenever you need to. I grantee modding the Sekiro sword into elden ring would make it play like you describe, boss design isn't the main factor here.
I don’t know if you have played many fighting games, but I actually find it’s basically that Sekiro is a platform fighter, and Souls is a trad fighter.
That is a huge thing I don't see mentioned often. A similar system is in God of War where you can pretty much go from any attack, except runic attacks, and just start dodging, blocking, or parrying any attack. I understand that Elden Ring kind of needs a way to punish you for doing an attack at a dumb time, but Sekiro really lets you react to moves instead of just punishing you for getting action read and blasted by a 5 minute combo
That genichiro ai loop is soo clever I had no idea. I though the boss was tripping at first
Nah bruh same
I think the thing hindering Elden Ring's replayability is not that there's a lot to do but the fact that unless you're insanely good, there's a lot you _have_ to do. Like, every run, you gotta run around Weeping Peninsula to collect all the flask upgrades; every run you gotta run across half the map to find the weapon you want and go into a bunch of boring side dungeons for every talisman and whatever else
I recommend you to do a no uprages run. This will make you better at the bosses because it will take longer to kill them and if you focus on leveling vitality you wont die as easily and will be able to learn the bosses movesets more easily. Also doing a run like this will give you a better understanding of what weapons are good against wich bosses, like some bosses with large health pools being easy targets for bleed and frost damage because it is dealt as a percentage damage instead of flat damage. Also you wont have to look for upgrade materials all the time and you can just swap between your weapons without worrying if they are upgraded. If you are struggling with late games bosses you can always get the bell bearings and just buy a couple of upgrade materials to even the playing field.
i personally dont think the souls games are that good for replayability on general. They are somewhat replayable because they are good games and you can try a new build. There isnt a lot of randomness so to me roguelikes and arpgs are the games i come back to.
NG+ solves all of these issues. If you’re playing casually, I highly recommend just doing this. Plus it adds fun challenge to each subsequent playthrough
@@blazex224 I disagree I feel like NG+ is never as enjoyable as NG cause of skewed boss poise and insane damage scaling
Get better do a fist only run
LOL I’ve never seen that genichiro 2nd phase cheese, that was hilarious
I feel like the boss you're talking about with the changed up combos and attack speed exists: the Bell Bearing Hunters. They can change their combos mid-sequence, they have insane range and almost no margin for error. And to me, they encroach on the level of bullshit difficulty, especially the one in Dragonbarrow; either you fight him perfectly or you die.
Their combos are still always the same. There's one or two minor variations depending on your distance to them but once you know those differences you can still 100% predict everything they'll do from the first attack windup. You can even predict whether they'll do that red explosion after the shield bash. That said I agree that they're a bit too punishing. I find the Bell Bearing Hunters really fun to fight but there is almost no margin for error and trying to heal is basically a death sentence unless you are very familiar with all the attack patterns.
If a boss does actual mixing of combos that would require much slower combat, more like DS1/2 than Elden Ring in terms of tempo. I think FromSoft pushed it to the limit with Malenia who can seamlessly chain 5+ attacks with no time to heal, I have the impression she's coded to do that aggressive chaining if the player has low health but I might be wrong.
Agreed. The hypothetical boss he's describing would be bs, since there would never be a time to attack without the risk of being hit back harder. Bell bearing hunters do feel like that too
@@loganalleman
Honestly the Bell Bearing Hunters are fine as long as you learn to fight them at close range. Barely ever roll away. They are still shit to learn though.
@@loganalleman you could still run away from attacks and heal. That would just be up to the developers. If a boss is programmed to stay hyperaggressive on you and close any gap it'd be bullshit, but if a boss is like Margit or Malenia, who either like to do sidesteps or walk slowly towards, you it'd be perfectly reasonable. Also bosses like that could have 5-10 different moves which they chain randomly. Some people would love that. I would certainly hate fighting late game bosses like that. I think bosses are already hard enough with delayed attacks and mild changes in their combos.
Though maybe that'd be something rewarding for NG+ runs, but i can't imagine the coding nightmare for such a boss fight.
As @SaHaRaSquad said if they'd make a game with slower combat like in DS1 i think i could enjoy such bosses, but i don't think FS will make (souls) games with such slow combat anymore.
@@SaHaRaSquad if you want to heal when fighting malenia, you have to get close to her and let her attack then you heal. I think this only works for certain attacks, but I forget which ones. This only applies to phase 2 cuz in phase 1 imo healing is pretty easy.
I remember watching you grind out No Damage way back when Sekiro first came out, can’t believe it’s been so long. God Run 3, here we come.
"Don't forget, Sekiro. Hesitate, and you lose......that is the way of war."
More bosses like Margit/Morgott, where directional rolling is required rather than blindly rolling every attack. I would really like if a boss in a tradional souls combat just straight up dodges your attack like what Ishin would do, or that Elden arts mod in sekiro, Father owl would simply use mistraven and mess up your rhythm.
Having more attacks you can jump/crouch below would be nice.
Friede very often dodges you attacks, both melee and range. Lady Maria works similarly, especially in second and third phase.
@@suchar7175 Lady maria and Fried doesn't dodge attacks they just simply moves around, whereas Ishin actually have an and counterattacks which I'm more akin about.
@@meatbicycle6456 after backwards quickstep (dodge) Friede attacks you, but I guess you would like to have something more similar to Isshin.
Mohg same way with his mix ups though. Depending on his combo you dodge in a certain direction on reaction to it. Plus having a good flow to the fight is important
Very impressive as always my dude. Your editing is getting better with each video too. Keep up the good work I'm here for it
15:30 Slave Knight Gael is the best boss FROM has ever made, Inner Ishin being a close second
The sudden sweep ruined the first phase of the fight completely, unreactable move.
@@broccolin huh? Gael or Ishin? I don't think either of them have an attack like that
Debatable but gael is very good
@@blakebailey22 Inner Isshin.
The commentary was really good.
I forgot I was watching the no hit run for a bit.
The second genichiro fight was simply genius
Finally some content about the best "souls" game
new sub here, love the format of this video. Edited, tooltips, commentary, and good gameplay. Nice!
The guy was the first one to do the no hit run on Sekiro....Still ruling
14:41 i think being reaction based would make sekiro way too hard, like this can be seen in inner ishin’s first phase, if you deflect once and attack he can stop blocking and punch you getting into his punch and sweep attack combo, it’s unpredictable and can be pretty frustrating if you’re trying to no hit him, if the game was a bit slower like other souls games Ig that might work
calls it a no hit run but clearly gets his arm cut off in the first fight
lol!
Man hearing you talk about “a fighting game, but like against bosses and PvE” in a Souls context makes me think of Sloclap’s games, Absolver and Sifu
They’re kinda like Souls-inspired fighting games. I haven’t seen much of your content, so I don’t know if you’ve played them or not, but if you haven’t I’d highly recommend them. They could probably even be great ones to no-hit, as they *do* have strings of attacks they can chain together randomly, in reaction to your inputs, and an in-built feint system that means at times they can cancel out of their attack and immediately start a new one
First thing I thought of when hearing that discussion in the vid, I think they fit your criteria perfectly
i really wish they applied the boss memories to elden ring as well. i think it would be fun to simulate the boss fights again for all souls games
Do you guys know? In yesterday stream, Gino was attempting God Run 3 & got to the last game(game 7) which was Sekiro & Got hit to Gyoubu!
Gino will probably complete the God Run 3 within a month or 2 months atmost!
+1 for the setup background here so much better than a bedroom or wall 🤩, aside from WILD gameplay.
Mud Dogs! Mud Dogs! Mud Dogs!
wow, i was really excited to see the sekiro no hit during god run 3. i am pleasantly surprised to get the run early
Sekiro is my favorite game of all time, the free-flowing and satisfying gameplay loop along with the Japanese aesthetic is beautiful. I can agree though that some bosses and certain aspects of the gameplay can and probably will be implemented and improved in future souls games. I feel that some bosses don't have that grandiose and poise that some bosses in other souls games have, some of the bosses in Sekiro feel like only an obstacle rather than an actual duel with respect. Adding a splash of random would be kinda cool, though i'm not sure if I would like it
The bosses in Sekiro are by far the best imao.
I think if i could instantly fight any boss, rememberance or not once you've beaten them i would play the shit out of elden ring, I did the same with headless ape for a whole day after i beat him and now hes my fave boss
Mod the game
@@redreboot483 Elden ring cannot take credit for mods.
Love your videos Gino
@@wizzykin Sorry if you don't get the attention you want, feels bad
@@wizzykin Gino is more of a streamer than a youtuber.
Adding to the talk, I think they could experiment with roll cancelling moves or feints in the future. I think it wouldn't hurt and allow for more complex movesets.
Mohg does this but in mix ups that require different rolls to successfully dodge and it’s perfect but yea if they make that more complex would be great but the problem is you can’t cancel your own animations in souls besides sekiro
There is a feint move by cancelling R2 with O.
Replaying Elden ring is basically looking up a checklist of which caves to beeline to, to get items for the build you want to try. I played it through once, trying to do everything I could and I could not stomach starting another character straight away. Granted trying to fully clear each area before moving on definitely reveals the repetitive nature of caves and tombs level design and the seemingly endless repeat bosses. I rolled my eyes after the 8th dragon, 5th death bird and 3rd star beast….
And as a PvP player ER just felt extremely disappointing, we talk about all these options and build variety but any invader will tell you they see the same 5-6 builds or weapons over and over. So I mean what is the point of variety if 90% of the community will gravitate to a few styles or weapons?
I know it isn’t everyone but man it’s uninspiring. I personally think bloodbourne and sekiro are the most engaging from games from a single player perspective. But for PvP I genuinely think ER is overrated and I personally had more fun in DS3 PvP.
I really appreciate having to die over and over to a boss to learn their move sets and how to effectively counter and punish.
The more linear games forced this learning process (unless your that guy that overlevels) and in turn brought a sense of accomplishment and satisfaction when you did finally beat the boss.
This doesn’t really seem to exist in ER as most players will simply leave the area if a boss is seemingly too difficult and come back when they are way stronger, therefore rinsing the boss and not really feeling anything other than “did I just cuck myself out of a potentially great boss fight?”.
I digress the open world I feel is a gimmick that wore off fairly quick for me…I mean realistically how many times you beat a cave boss, see the reward and think…”man that was pointless”?
That's why I just play it like a souls game. As simple as possible, and not trotting outside the area, until I've beaten the local remembrance. Hell, with no weapon upgrades, bosses like Margit and Godrick still take less than 3 minutes to kill. Why would I waste 40 minutes to make a fight I like last 20 seconds? It's anticlimactic, it's boring. Not to mention, I hate farming.
@@glorytoukraine5524 yeah I tried, but I also made the mistake of not going to peninsula before stormveil and that kinda effed things up too…but at the same time I haven’t seen a lot pushing the player to go south before stormveil. So that area became pretty much face tanking everything….whereas a more linear game design wouldn’t really allow for that.
@@jwalton1915 fully agree. If you don't know in advance that weeping penninsula is technically a part of limgrave, you'll never go there on your own until much later, when you happen to stumble upon it. It feels way more natural to follow the path through stormveil, right into Liurnia.
@@glorytoukraine5524 yeah maybe a little more direction (without handholding) could have helped with the “intended” progression path. Possibly would have solved a lot of my problems potentially. But nonetheless I feel the linearity of past games brought so much achievement in beating a boss that felt few and far between in ER…to me at least.
the genchiro way of tomoe fight, the strategy he took was hilarious geni was like "Please i beg you stop using healing items my back is literally broken by the amount of thrursts and mikiris" Lmfaoooooooooo
I feel like replayability depends on how much content there is, it's variety, if is required, and the quality of the content. With Elden ring what lowers it's replayability isn't that there is too much content, it's just the content that's required isn't especially fun. Getting all of the seeds, tears, and smithing stone bell bearings needed to complete a run surely is a lot of content, but it's more or less just a time dump. A lot of content is good if that content has a lot of variety and is of high quality, even if it is required content if it's good it's good, but if it's bad then it's just a slog getting in the way of the next new playthrough.
Ive beat Demon Souls, DS3, Bloodborne, and Elden Ring. All multiple times. Im playing Sekiro now. Love it!!!
4:48
The one thing that makes NG+ runs near unplayable for me is losing all bell bearings upon starting a new game cycle. It just demolishes the flow for me, now I have to look up all the locations again and speedrun to get them if I want to upgrade and experiment with different weapons. It’s a pain.
…And literally as I finished typing the above paragraph, I looked it up and a patch was added to make them carry over since I’ve last attempted to go into a ng+ cycle. However I’ve already finished typing the comment out so pretend that this comment is someone from the past responding to the video LOL
For me personally the best bosses are the ones with unique mechanics; what I mean by that is fights like Deacons of the Deep, Yhorm, the Giant, Rykard, Lord of Blasphemy, Curse-Rotten Greatwood, Crystal Sage, High Lord Wolnir, Mimic Tear (if it wasn’t so easy to cheese) and of course Rennala, though her fight is pretty much Deacons of the Deep with an extra phase. I forget the name but DS3 even had a dragon boss where you could 1 shot him but in order to do so you had to run past a bunch of enemies and up a ladder to jump onto his head lol. Been a long time since I played the old Souls games and I only finished Sekiro once so I’ve no doubt missed a bunch off the list, but those for me are the ones that stand out the most and feel more rewarding than the other boss fights purely down to the fact that you have to think outside of the standard offence/defence play style!
Ngl I love this game for that fact u have to fight u don’t run away and doge the whole time u gotta have a sword fight and Kerry and keep hitting. Way better then spamming a roll button to run away
Truly a god run
27:35 that was one of the coolest things I’ve ever seen
I would LOVE to see you play more Bloodborne
I think he said that he routed a all bosses no hit at some point but never did it. Maybe he will do that at some point after the GR3
@@joja7868that would be awesome
5:45 dying light goon zombie pain sound effect mentioned
Damn that Genichiro loop was sattisfying to see
Fake run he hit you, and cut off your arm
Damn….
Your comma is in the wrong spot.
😮
OH SHUT UP
@@Dragon_Rep.it’s a joke loser
That Genichiro phase 3 cheese! So good.
my jaw dropped
I definitely see your point about replayability. For me I like to do all the content whenever I play a game, whether first time or tenth time, and in a game like Dark Souls 3 I can do that while using a different build each time I do all the content while also not having to sink a ton of time in to do it. With Elden Ring the investment to do a run where I do all the content is much higher, and I just feel weird skipping past content so i feel compelled to do everything, and the result is I tend to fall off pretty quickly into replaying it. It's entirely just a preference thing though.
I can't imagine the intensity of fighting ss isshin at the very end of a no hit run.
I have never seen the Gyoubu boss actually fought lol. Everyone always just does the run on the roof strat.
It's so interesting to me that a game I did not enjoy or appreciate at any point during my playthrough of it is so beloved by so many. My eyes roll into the back of my skull just looking over to this "Refined to perfection" in reference to this game that I'm seeing in my recommended. I'm happy that we aren't all the same.
Why don’t you like it?
@@BLAM5980 It just wasn't really for me. I didn't feel like I had enough time to really breathe in that game, everything was so obnoxious and over tuned, and I especially didn't like the "rhythm" paced combat. Once the idea that you're really just mashing 1 button to a specific timing creeped into my mind, the novelty faded pretty quickly. I don't think it's a bad game at all. I could absolutely see why people like it as much as they do. I just think it's exceptionally overrated and I enjoyed Bloodborne's approach to fast combat far more.
On a more shallow note, I hate being pigeon holed into a specific role in most RPGs. Unless they're done pretty well (For example, Booker from Bioshock or John Marston from Red Dead) I'm not going to feel very invested in what I'm doing. I did not care about Wolf at all. I didn't care about Kuro at all. The game wasn't written in a way that was compelling to me.
I also especially didn't like how I didn't feel like my character was my own in the RPG I was playing. I was just "Wolf". I could add a combat art here or there but it was never me, it was always Wolf. Again, there are ways to do good "light" RPG elements. I just didn't think Sekiro did them all that well.
World is gorgeous. Music is incredible. Sound design is great. Again, the game is not bad. I just didn't care for it.
@@YangBalanceYinthat's interesting, because I really didn't jive with booker from bioshock for almost the same reason that you didn't jive with wolf.
Timing based combat isn't for everyone, true. But it's definitely more than just one button in Sekiro.
@@YangBalanceYin I understand everything you’ve said, and it’s unfortunate.
Hopefully, in the future, you can give it another shot and actually enjoy it. Apparently that happens often to people with these games.
Go cling cling
Always nice to see Sekiro getting some love. Honestly Sekiro speedruns are a lot more fun to watch than Elden Ring imo.
On replayability, I am a giant sekiro fan i love all the souls games but sekiro is the one I replayed the most personally simply because of the way the game continues to become more and more satisfying to play the better you get at the game in a way that is definitely different from the ways it oculd be said are true of the other souls games. I also just appreciate how the combat system and enemies are able to become so refined when they aren't meant to take into account a wide range of possible rpg builds like in the other games. I could go more in depth but I'll leave it at that.
i really like the draconic tree sentinel in elden ring, its just so satisfying to fight once you learn it (and dont just come back in a repeat playthrough at level 70+ and its little more than a speedbump)
I would love that grappling hook in elden ring, not gonna lie...
Creators: we have finally released our game and it is now public-
Gino: *what is up everybody*
Good luck on the god run 3 ma dude
The thing you are describing the whole stream is exactly what you are playing right now. The developers also thought that they could change up the combat of the souls games, and then they developed sekiro.
The reason they didn't only change the combat and left everything else as it is, is because that wouldn't work. People have certain expectation on souls games and you can't just completely throw over the combat. If you are changing a key mechanic of the game you have to adapt all the other aspects of the game as well. And that's how it became sekiro at the end instead of another souls game.
We don't know if the birth of sekiro was really only because of the combat or because they wanted to do something new or something else but the end results are the same.
they definitely played it safe and develop both Sekiro and DS3 at the same time by 2 teams. I guess DS3 numbers were better so they went with it in Elden Ring.
@tronghieunguyen8892 I don't think so because there is 3 years between the release of both games which is a typical time for from soft games.
17:26 huh, so the Armored Warrior can break your posture even when perfectly deflected. Interesting.
When I search up "no hit run" ginomachino pops up
bro 3mins in and I'm like "I get f*cking annoyed if a fart breaks my concentration on a fight" this dudes reading chat, giving out strats and picking his nose (ok I added that last part). Some people are a different breed.
There is a mod that does what are talking about in the video, it’s called sake of Ashina, I promise you, it’s exactly what you are looking for.
Soo cool how you bated Genichiros Mikiri attack with all the consumables, but it hurt my inner collector when you used the divine grass. 😮😂
BRO how are you talking and playing this game and streaming and reading chat at the same time 😱 is this the power of a god
Watching you fight that guardian ape after just dying to it 10 times... crazy
The game that you’re describing at 16:45 is essentially Monster Hunter
Absolutely insane to watch someone do so well on a game I struggle so much with
You have to keep practicing dude. I have also played a lot. Now i am also pretty good. Btw i almost beated the game with just attack power 1.
Best game ever. The flow of combat has not been equaled yet, even in other from soft games.
its quite different combat from other soul games.
sekiro makes dodges less important and forces you to block and parry
Keep up the great vids
the discussion about how the roll and punish combat system was standard until sekiro got me thinking about monster hunter world and rise's DLCs, cause both add new core combat mechanics (a grapple in world and mid-fight moveset swapping for rise)
and while i dont expect fromsoft to do this in the ER DLC, i would be very down
Genichiro being baited to death was a sigh to behold
I think that no hit runs for sekiro should have the charm modded in to confirm the run because it causes you to suffer chip damage if you dont deflect, idk if its a good idea or not
No Kuro's Charm is what does that. Demon Bell just adds HP to bosses and makes them hit Harder.
when sekiro first came out no hit runners did runs without kuros charm but stopped doing it because it changes the amount of damage bosses take making it harder than the base game. Also you dont need the chip damage to know if it was a perfec parry or not
@@soulslayer434 sorry, i actually meat the charm, but the context should suffice, lemme fix it real quick
@@Whyisthisathing825 you actually hear it from the sound. Any no hit runner can tell if you fucked it up.
He’s so cool
Killing Robert's dad with his own fire crackers .. ruthless 😂
I think the combat he is referring to (in my opinion) is God of War Valkyrie Queens Gna and Sigrun type combat / reaction time esc because they never do the same set of moves exactly, they always do something different after doing a certain attack.
God Run 3 but with the true endings for each game would be wild
8:40 The issue with having a deep build crafting system, it becomes impossible to not only balance the player’s strength, but the bosses’ too. It can be done, but in a game like Sekiro, which it’s fair combat is the main component to the game, doing what you mentioned would compromise that.
Bro, the way you kill genishro in his third face is hilarious 😂
I can’t even stop from getting hit on the character customization screen, let alone 7 games.
What he's talking about at around 12:55 about Sekiro being kinda boring for him because boss fights are 'reactive' and he wants more variety and randomness, my advice is to play Inner Father on demon bell charmless. That boss embodies all of his desires as close as possible, and coincidentally it's the best boss in Sekiro
edit: also the desire to have boss fights and gameplay where you're the aggressor the entire time...yeah just play Sekiro on demon bell charmless. That's the game you're asking for.
edit 2: idk if you're reading this gino, but you can get two hits on isshin then dodge before he does his ichimonji
Gino’s idea to have bosses vary the speed of their repeated attacks and mix up combos mid-combo sounds absolutely terrible. Getting through a fight without taking hits would be nigh impossible. Fromsoft bosses from DS3 onwards already have complex movesets with attack timings that are often difficult to learn as is. Making that steep learning curve even steeper would kill mainstream interest in the series.
It’s the kind of idea that only makes sense to people that have already beaten the game so many times, sometimes under severe handicaps, that they’ve forgotten how much they struggled to beat the game for the first time.
On the discussion regarding attacks and more attacks/mixups/attackspeeds
I think Monsterhunter (I like World/Iceborn alot) does this type of stuff.
Shure it is no soulslike or soulsborne but I felt like it had its similarities. Basically every Monster has like... alot of moves and depending on if its enraged or hurt and the moves can be slower/ easier to read if its like almost dead. And if you break certain parts of theyr body the can sometimes even hurt themselves with some of the attacks they do. It feels relly nice to cut of the tail of for example Tobikadachi and seeing it desperatley trying to hit you. AAANYWAYS
Im honestly not even shure if its what your even looking for but i immediatley had to think abt that game
you probably wont even read this or play mhw but i wish you a good day anyway
bye ^^
I think the stuff he’s looking isn’t going to show up in a souls like considering I feel like most of the stuff he’s looking for is actually completely against what made souls likes popular in the first place. When people say hard but fair they actually mean is enemies that will kill you if you don’t remain patient and follow their patterns and pace without being too overwhelmingly difficult otherwise.
It isn’t like the games he’s looking for don’t exist like in MHW. Funnily enough the old monster hunter games are similarly if not more pattern based than souls. Another example I can think of is the ninja gaiden 2004. Now they do definitely have their pattern oriented difficulty but with the multi enemy fights the game can give you some very difficult to dodge patterns but if you record it and look back, due to the amount of options you have there was almost always a way to avoid damage. As well some of the bosses/enemies can be seriously unpredictable because of the games weird enemy dodge/block mechanics and some of the dodge cancelling and various insane sh*t the ai is capable of. Still almost always dogeable but you have to be reacting incredibly well.
The funny thing is I think he would end up hating this type of stuff he says he wants considering he has said before he likes things to be consistent. Would like to see what he would think about either game tbh but we probably won’t see that. I think he would especially hate ninja gaiden 2004.
@@porkwhisperer3050 thats very intresting
honestly. I prob wont look too deep into it but will def check 2004 and the old old mh out some time.
And yes, eventho chances are slim.. like very slim.. I WOULD BE SOOO EXCITED SEEING HIM PLAY ICEBORNE
Someone in chat said that they want another game with a similar posture system
I hope you’ve heard of the Jedi Fallen Order and Jedi Survivor games, they are a bit easier, but imo they scratch the same itch that Sekiro scratches.
For me, I actually played Sekiro back when it came out but I just gave up on Genichiro, I simply couldn’t do it, but between that and my second attempt now, I’ve played DS3, Elden Ring, Jedi Fallen Order and Jedi Survivor, and when I came back, after applying everything I learned with especially the Jedi games, the combat just CLICKED. It clicked in a way I’ve never felt it click before.
Granted, I’m still stuck on Genichiro (I am not that great on these kinds of games), but I have zero intention on giving up this time. I’m so fucking close, I just keep choking on the last phase.
Here's my casual pleb take regarding ex. ER bosses Gino:
I've beaten ER twice (fresh starts, no NG+) and I'm currently trying to beat EVERY boss while taking no damage/minimal damage. What I've learned about myself that I didn't know is that, if a boss has patterns that are easier to learn, then the challenge and the satisfaction of (finally) understanding them is greater.
Example of a boss I hate with a passion are the Tree Spirits. They're too much, and I don't find it fun, and I don't find the challenge of learning them fun.
I think people like bosses where, you can actually see what they're doing. Tree Spirits and Radahn to name two, is a put off for many (including me, I don't get Radahn and I never will) because you cant' see shit.
There's more to it, and it's not as simple as that to be fair. I used to not like Malenia, now I find her to be an enjoyable challenge. I still can't reasonably or comfortably beat her, but I can see my own progress every time, and the satisfaction of being able to flat out negate 2 or even A move because I learned, is greater than any tree spirit fight I will ever fight
People like erdtree avatars because they don't have weird timings, they are consistent and very familiar considering how many of them there are. They have clear windows to attack and dont do long drawn out combos that leave you running like a scared child.
Erdtree avatar does have that long winded 1 swing attack. It just that erdtree's model is just big enough so you can keep it inside your screen center. Very solid hitbox so less chance to miss your charged attack. And it doesnt dodge your spell.
Kindred Gargoyle is on the opposite. Weird hitbox, weapon clipped through the ground, can jump back often and perform massive aoe attack that 1 shot anything.
@@JumpCatStudio102This comment is funny to me cus Black Blade Kindred (the sword one, fuck twinblades) is my favorite overworld boss for the same reason ppl like Erdtree Avatars.
I spent hrs fighting him underleveled on my first run and so learned his patterns completely, he's actually extremely predictable. You're right abt his kind of fucky hurtbox, but all his attacks are distinct, highly telegraphed, and can be dodged the same way every time, even more so in halberd mode. I think ppl dislike him because unlike erdtree avatars, theres only one of him, he mainly just drops runes and he's in dragonbarrow so his damage is insane and unforgiving, so ppl are more likely to either die instantly, ignore him or one shot him w/o learning the attacks.
I love him though. He is my special boy and I fight him as soon as I meet gurranq for a free 80k runes. Fuck his bastard twinblade brother though, the hitboxes on those attacks are bullshit.
Love your content dude
I'm almost there. As soon as I stop dying in the Folded Screen Monkeys fight. And all the others.
Cmon man how do u die to the folding screen monkeys, just pop a Gachiin sugar and sneak up behind them. Honestly one of the easiest main bosses that fromsoft has put out
15:00 I also want this. I know exaxtly what you're talking about and I feel like there is a way to achieve it. It's going to take some serious machine learning/ AI work. Especially on the balancing side of things. We would need a way to also give the player a lot more freedom. I do have some ideas.
I think combat based guard counters and trades could play a very key role in making your idea work. There are lots of ways that it can be made to work.
Hey gino love all your vids i was wondering if youve tried Nioh?
10:31 if you want it to be more reaction based you should try a mod called jidao 2.1
Holy based.
bro is dodging rain drops when its raining outside
I used to be a no hit runner like you... till I took an arrow to the knee.
THE ELDEN GOAT HAS UPLOADED!!!
Erdtree avatar was the only boss I learned😅. I played through twice, first time using spirit summons and overpowering and staggering bosses with str/fth. The other time was as a wizard and that required no brain power
On your subject on replayability: I’ve replayed Sekiro more times than Elden Ring but I’ve spent far more time playing Elden Ring. The comparison between the two regarding “replayability” is like comparing apples to oranges.
id love if they would change normal enemies (like from elden ring, i feel like you either one hit them, or stunlock immediately)
it'd be kinda cool if you actuqlly had to fight with them (more like sekiro minnibosses)
It's really hard and time consuming to animate a boss's moveset, blend those animations in an AI, that can then be turned into a balanced fight. Elden Ring took around 4 years to develop as is. Making enemies half as sophisticated as the bosses would multiply that timeframe by a lot. Cool idea, but neither feasible, nor worth it. May I add, people are complaining about the bosses already. Can you imagine the article spam from "game journalists" if regular enemies were hard?
sekiro : shadow never getting hit