It was common with many of my young friends starting in the early 70’s to live together as couples, unmarried. As they approached their 30’s the women started putting pressure on the males to get married. It forced the men to imagine the future as always with the woman and many said “No thanks!” and split.
Secondary education in particular has been undermined by a refusal to acknowledge that we have social classes in America which promotes inappropriate curriculum for working class and poor kids with lower IQs who are forced to take strictly academic classes mostly from college educated women instead of trades programs from a combination of industrial arts teachers and journeymen master tradesmen who could help them to learn skills. Under the current regime they’re being “prepared” for college, even though they’ve been socially promoted through classes whose exams they couldn’t pass, to steer them towards college, which they cannot afford, and where they would immediately flunk out in all probability anyway, since open admissions state universities do indeed still flunk the incompetents out.
It's too simplistic to argue all smart ppl get high paying jobs and all idiots don't. There are so many variables that go into the mix, such as family connections, career choice, etc. I've known many idiots that had high-paying jobs b/c they either had connections or could do some skill moderately well and that happened to be in demand at the time. I've known many very smart ppl who were teachers who weren't paid anywhere near what they were worth.
Three years after he spoke: The Southern Education Foundation reports that 51 percent of students in pre-kindergarten through 12th grade in the 2012-2013 school year were eligible for the federal program that provides free and reduced-price lunches.
9:30 Murray talks about culture. He talks about culture and absence of economic context, he sidesteps this entire issue at 10:00 via his assertion "this is not driven by money". This has everything to do with money, everything to do with the destruction of Union labor via globalization and continued attack on labor since Ronald Reagan came into office. In 1967 my parents bought their first house. My father was working as a shipping and receiving clerk, my mother was working as a part-time cashier at a grocery store, they were barely 20 years old. Both my parents went on to finish school after that foundational purchase. The change in economic realities around cost-of-living at the lower end of the wage scale from 1960 to now are more than substantial. Without diving deeply into the ratio of cost of living to low-end wages Murray's arguments are without substance. That same foundational purchase is unthinkable today, at the same age and job level. The fact that Murray is willing to repeatedly ignore the economic context for his assertions makes those assertions invalid.
Keith Kevelson The real reason why you find his views "horrifying" is that you subconsciously recognize that he is largely on target and everything that you believe as a self styled leftist can no longer stand scrutiny.
Of course it can, but like the body, each have their natural limitations. It's time to give up the "one size fits all" mentality and accept human biodiversity as we do with all other life. To say you will increase the intelligence of a random group by a standard deviation (a full 15 points) and presumably have it remain relatively permanent for life, is exactly the type of hubris that leads to the horrific policies we currently have............The science regarding the heritability of I.Q. is fairly well established at this point, It's only going to get worse for leftists in the future when they finally decide to accept reality and can't make snarky comments about those "dumb" republicans anymore..............see ya at the finish line
If you read his book "Coming Apart" you would understand that money is not the primary driving force. It's the congregation of the cognitive elite who happen to be rewarded heavily for their cognitive ability. Your anecdote is not very significant compared to the analysis he provides in his book.
Coming Apart has been taken apart for it's statistical laziness already. The "analysis" he provides in the book is of demonstrably poor quality. andrewgelman.com/2012/02/15/some-reactions-to-charles-murrays-thoughts-on-income-and-politics/
Good analysis. About the bell curve controversy -- people who do not require much additional brain glucose to perform intellectually rigorous tasks usually have a higher IQ than those who require additional brain glucose. This might be inherited and may be partially associated with race. This is a testable theory -- and may be able to explain why Asians and people descended from European jewry score higher on IQ tests than other folks.
his ideas are a dangerous mix of truths and falsities. I come from the working class, grew up with no money, got two degrees in EU universities, landed a good job, and I think the majority of people are morons who constantly make bad decisions, which is one of the reasons I had so many difficulties growing up and I was at a disadvantage in the first place. on the other hand he's perfectly correct about the echo chamber and artificial environment the elites grow up into. but the non-empathic elites are not on the left side of the spectrum (the 'nudge' category), they're on the right side. they're the lawyers, managers, consultants, VPs, CEOs and all the other ones who went for MBAs and other business bullshit degrees at top business schools thanks to daddy's money and network. they're the psychopaths who are running the western world and forcing their reality over everyone else. another falisity: only studying sciences and maths can humiliate you intellectually. not true, take a rich kid from the elite, or a dumb average kid for that matter, and put him to study a rigorous humanities curriculum. his head will explode, because he will realize he's unable to understand subtleties and make coherent qualitative arguments. humanities also force you to critique and reconsider the framework in which you operate and adopt a cultural and historical point of view instead of a performance-based short-term one. no wonder the neoliberals hate them, and since that's the class ruling the current world, the popular mantra pushed over people is that they're easy and worthless. on the other hand, maths and science are encouraged because the business school elite kids need nerd slaves to do the number crunching and programming tasks for them.
His presentation isn't dangerous unless you mean dangerous to a point of view you espouse. He is immunised from any accusation of racism because he is only discussing non-Hispanic Whites. And as I try to make any sense of your run-on paragraph of class-system paranoia, I see why you use the word dangerous. If you have posted your point of view his very reasonable description of truth highlights how lacking in substance your ideas are.
For you to say that the majority of people are morons doesn't speak highly of you. No matter how objective you are attempting to be, your condescending manner of speech is rude, to say the least.
85cube I come from a similar background to yourself and don't recognise the world you describe. Most people aren't morons. That's statistically true and I would argue biologically true because a moronic species would probably have died out.
Charles is either ignorant of or purposefully obfuscating the correlation between race and socioeconomic class as well as how that links with violent crime. The disproportionate rate of violence in black low class neighborhoods is not mirrored in their white or Latino counterparts. If you invite lower class people into wealthier areas, this problem will not be ameliorated, if anything it will be enhanced. By diversifying the socioeconomic class in a school you are diversifying the race, which has negative effects for many involved.
America is not a Democracy!! America is a Republic based on the rule of law!!! We elect our representatives democratically, with a vote, but we do not punish our criminals by a vote, but rather courts of law!
This guy is spot on about many points. The craziest part of this is that he nailed these points down back in 2012.
Excellent discussion. I just wish the volume were higher.
It was common with many of my young friends starting in the early 70’s to live together as couples, unmarried. As they approached their 30’s the women started putting pressure on the males to get married. It forced the men to imagine the future as always with the woman and many said “No thanks!” and split.
By "Nanny State" I believe he's referring to "Paternal Socialism". Also, that diversity joke was AWESOME!
Secondary education in particular has been undermined by a refusal to acknowledge that we have social classes in America which promotes inappropriate curriculum for working class and poor kids with lower IQs who are forced to take strictly academic classes mostly from college educated women instead of trades programs from a combination of industrial arts teachers and journeymen master tradesmen who could help them to learn skills. Under the current regime they’re being “prepared” for college, even though they’ve been socially promoted through classes whose exams they couldn’t pass, to steer them towards college, which they cannot afford, and where they would immediately flunk out in all probability anyway, since open admissions state universities do indeed still flunk the incompetents out.
One of the smartest videos I have listened to. It was a pleasure.
It's too simplistic to argue all smart ppl get high paying jobs and all idiots don't. There are so many variables that go into the mix, such as family connections, career choice, etc. I've known many idiots that had high-paying jobs b/c they either had connections or could do some skill moderately well and that happened to be in demand at the time. I've known many very smart ppl who were teachers who weren't paid anywhere near what they were worth.
You know your anecdotes. I know mine. On average, Charles is right
I went to school, most white people don't care about it
Hear, hear @ 52:11
Three years after he spoke: The Southern Education Foundation reports that 51 percent of students in pre-kindergarten through 12th grade in the 2012-2013 school year were eligible for the federal program that provides free and reduced-price lunches.
9:30 Murray talks about culture. He talks about culture and absence of economic context, he sidesteps this entire issue at 10:00 via his assertion "this is not driven by money". This has everything to do with money, everything to do with the destruction of Union labor via globalization and continued attack on labor since Ronald Reagan came into office. In 1967 my parents bought their first house. My father was working as a shipping and receiving clerk, my mother was working as a part-time cashier at a grocery store, they were barely 20 years old. Both my parents went on to finish school after that foundational purchase. The change in economic realities around cost-of-living at the lower end of the wage scale from 1960 to now are more than substantial. Without diving deeply into the ratio of cost of living to low-end wages Murray's arguments are without substance. That same foundational purchase is unthinkable today, at the same age and job level. The fact that Murray is willing to repeatedly ignore the economic context for his assertions makes those assertions invalid.
Keith Kevelson The real reason why you find his views "horrifying" is that you subconsciously recognize that he is largely on target and everything that you believe as a self styled leftist can no longer stand scrutiny.
Of course it can, but like the body, each have their natural limitations. It's time to give up the "one size fits all" mentality and accept human biodiversity as we do with all other life. To say you will increase the intelligence of a random group by a standard deviation (a full 15 points) and presumably have it remain relatively permanent for life, is exactly the type of hubris that leads to the horrific policies we currently have............The science regarding the heritability of I.Q. is fairly well established at this point, It's only going to get worse for leftists in the future when they finally decide to accept reality and can't make snarky comments about those "dumb" republicans anymore..............see ya at the finish line
If you read his book "Coming Apart" you would understand that money is not the primary driving force. It's the congregation of the cognitive elite who happen to be rewarded heavily for their cognitive ability. Your anecdote is not very significant compared to the analysis he provides in his book.
Training someone to regurgitate facts is not the same as the ability to critically apply principles from one concept to a new situation.
Coming Apart has been taken apart for it's statistical laziness already. The "analysis" he provides in the book is of demonstrably poor quality. andrewgelman.com/2012/02/15/some-reactions-to-charles-murrays-thoughts-on-income-and-politics/
Good analysis. About the bell curve controversy -- people who do not require much additional brain glucose to perform intellectually rigorous tasks usually have a higher IQ than those who require additional brain glucose. This might be inherited and may be partially associated with race. This is a testable theory -- and may be able to explain why Asians and people descended from European jewry score higher on IQ tests than other folks.
his ideas are a dangerous mix of truths and falsities. I come from the working class, grew up with no money, got two degrees in EU universities, landed a good job, and I think the majority of people are morons who constantly make bad decisions, which is one of the reasons I had so many difficulties growing up and I was at a disadvantage in the first place. on the other hand he's perfectly correct about the echo chamber and artificial environment the elites grow up into. but the non-empathic elites are not on the left side of the spectrum (the 'nudge' category), they're on the right side. they're the lawyers, managers, consultants, VPs, CEOs and all the other ones who went for MBAs and other business bullshit degrees at top business schools thanks to daddy's money and network. they're the psychopaths who are running the western world and forcing their reality over everyone else. another falisity: only studying sciences and maths can humiliate you intellectually. not true, take a rich kid from the elite, or a dumb average kid for that matter, and put him to study a rigorous humanities curriculum. his head will explode, because he will realize he's unable to understand subtleties and make coherent qualitative arguments. humanities also force you to critique and reconsider the framework in which you operate and adopt a cultural and historical point of view instead of a performance-based short-term one. no wonder the neoliberals hate them, and since that's the class ruling the current world, the popular mantra pushed over people is that they're easy and worthless. on the other hand, maths and science are encouraged because the business school elite kids need nerd slaves to do the number crunching and programming tasks for them.
His presentation isn't dangerous unless you mean dangerous to a point of view you espouse. He is immunised from any accusation of racism because he is only discussing non-Hispanic Whites.
And as I try to make any sense of your run-on paragraph of class-system paranoia, I see why you use the word dangerous. If you have posted your point of view his very reasonable description of truth highlights how lacking in substance your ideas are.
For you to say that the majority of people are morons doesn't speak highly of you. No matter how objective you are attempting to be, your condescending manner of speech is rude, to say the least.
Julian A Julian is triggered. The majority of people are total morons, if you don't see it, it probably means you're not very intelligent.
85cube I come from a similar background to yourself and don't recognise the world you describe. Most people aren't morons. That's statistically true and I would argue biologically true because a moronic species would probably have died out.
85cube J8 O 8A9A qS
lucky to have the bevin boys sad they die out
Charles is either ignorant of or purposefully obfuscating the correlation between race and socioeconomic class as well as how that links with violent crime. The disproportionate rate of violence in black low class neighborhoods is not mirrored in their white or Latino counterparts. If you invite lower class people into wealthier areas, this problem will not be ameliorated, if anything it will be enhanced. By diversifying the socioeconomic class in a school you are diversifying the race, which has negative effects for many involved.
Is Harvard really filled with the deserving poor?
Not currently….. it’s full of nerds, yes…. But a significant proportion is….. affirmative action babies.
That uh introduction was uh terrible uhhhh
85 cube, your use of your native tongue could be used for more effective use than writing drivel. I do not understand a word.
Hhi
No, it's a rotting woke swamp.
America is a democracy. So it's a free country homies.
America is not a Democracy!! America is a Republic based on the rule of law!!! We elect our representatives democratically, with a vote, but we do not punish our criminals by a vote, but rather courts of law!
America is NOT a fucking democracy you imbecile. It is a Constitutional REPUBLIC!