Vulnerable narcissists will groom you by saying that everyone else in their life has abandoned or betrayed them, they set you up to prove that you are different and would never let them down. Then, when you start pulling back for your own survival, they say "See? Your just like the rest of them!"
They basically want the unconditional love of a parent (which doesn't work with someone who is not their parent) but they are also at the two year old stage where they don't feel love for the parent - and they wont be leaving that stage. They both desperately want attachment and have contempt for attachment.
They really try to keep you stuck in their emotional web by making you feel like you are the only one that can actually help them, until you realize how drained you are.
This was my ex-boyfriend. He played on my empathy, and the gaslighting had me thinking I was losing my mind. I finally hit my limit and kicked him out of my house. I finally accepted that no matter what I did, I would be the villain in his story. I'm still working on putting the pieces of my life back together 2 years later, but the peace of not having him in my home and dealing with his moods has been immeasurable. If you are in a similar situation, you will be the villain in their story no matter how much you give, sacrifice, and bend over backward to try to satisfy their needs. You will never convince them otherwise. Realize there is nothing you can do to show them you really are a good person. Anytime you start to question yourself, remember this.
Exactly the same thing happened to me, but I was the one to move in, there were numerous times when I questioned my own sanity because of the way my mind was being played with. After the breakup when I looked back all the signs were there but I had downplayed them, which led me to blame myself and go through the darkest time of my entire life. But right now I'm so grateful because all the misery I lived motivated me to learn more and work on certain weaknesses I didn't know I had, and now when I see certain patterns, I remove myself from the equation before things get worse; not just in love relationships but also with friends and even family. So I can say " I'm so f#^%$ng grateful for my ex" ... I'm so thankful for therapy and @DoctorRamani because they helped me get through it.
I’m living with my partner of 4 years and just now I’m waking up. He uses “chemical sensitivities “ to make my life chaos. I tried to help him so much only to find he had a dating profile on canary singles (for chemical sensitivities people), wanted me to visit with ex-wife to learn from her (because I didn’t get it), even have me so anxious because “ maybe he needs to be in a relationship with a woman who has the same issues, (because she would understand him), and even recently have his daughter send an add from the local list serve from a woman looking to meet people with this issue and making sure that he contacted her (he didn’t), and drive my car all summer because he was “reacting “ to the EMFs or smells in the car he was trying to buy. I’m now so traumatized, I have been through so much with him. And nothing helps.
Wow, thank you for bravely sharing your story. I was literally told by my ex "I made you the villain of my story and I told my mom, sister, and friends that too." I was baffled. Now, when there are moments I question myself if I did enough, I remember there was nothing we could do to show them otherwise. These folks already had a distorted untruthful narrative about us from day one.
Extremely accurate to my experience. And they will guilt trip you, so you go out of your way to do things either for them or to avoid upsetting them. Then when you tell them you did it that way for them, they gaslight you into thinking they didn’t care about it in the first place. Exhausting, draining, crazymaking. I’m 6 weeks out of it and all my mysterious fatigue finally seems to have cleared and I feel fresh and ready for life again. Strength to everyone going through this, especially if you have no familiarity with this stuff and are just waking up to it. The more you understand it, the more you will heal. xx
A malignant narcissist can resort to a vulnerable narcissist persona when they have burned too many bridges and alienated too many sources of supply. The guilt trips are designed to bring you back into their orbit. And suddenly, you're back under their boot. When you've come so far in shaking off their influence and getting your life back, it's the final test of wits and nerve to hold the line, refuse the overtures and the lovebombing and the "poor me" tirades, keep the calm, polite grey-rock wall up, and walk away. Sometimes the pity I feel is almost my undoing.... But I'm not going back.
Absolutely 💯. That's how my malignant narc pulled me back in, but luckily thanks to the orchestrates efforts of - no less than seven people - family and friends I was extricated. It was like a covert mission of freeing me from my captor. No kidding.
@@ΔημητραΚατσικιδη Aw, thank you for sharing this! 😃We hear so many stories of enablers siding with the narcissist (my experience🥺), that it's healing to hear a GOOD story of community support and rescue! So glad you and @jilllloyd7792 made it out! ❤
Perfectly describing my father. Malignant to the point of being truly predatory (thanks grandma), but is able to pretend to be lost and vulnerable and sucking victims back in. I’m told I’m heartless because I won’t take his presence seriously at all. I’d rather be wrong and safe than be his victim again.
Perfectly describing my father. Malignant to the point of being truly predatory (thanks grandma), but is able to pretend to be lost and vulnerable and sucking victims back in. I’m told I’m heartless because I won’t take his presence seriously at all. I’d rather be wrong and safe than be his victim again.
I stayed for 40 years because of a need to convince him he was loved. It has cost me my physical and emotional health, the children’s emotional health and my financial health. I’ve been out for 6 years but still recovering. If you’re young, please, please take care of your own finances and in sure your own retirement. And if you haven’t already, don’t have children with them. For those here, you have my best wishes for safe and as smooth as possible ways out of these relationships with healing and thriving in your not too distant future.
This is Exactly my story as well, OH how I wish I had kept my independence, how STUPID was I, giving that over. I also am now 5yrs post a long term marriage, right at the time I should have been able to Retire, I discovered he had been having an Affair, off having a wonderful time whilst I was working 12 hr shifts😢 He never helped around the house, he stated he was too busy!!! But he did have time to workout his Penis😮 I had then to work Long, putting off retirement Buy my own home back, And trying and also put money aside for retirement All hopefully before I drop dead. Stay strong You are worthy Enjoy your New Life
@@JohannaVanDreumel I’m sorry for your difficulties. However, somehow we become conditioned to be in and stay in these relationships. Please be kind to yourself and see yourself as the strong person you are rather than stupid. May you experience healing and find a path to happiness.
It'll be a long way for me to get out of this relationship,but I am biding my time. Unfortunately, 3 children deep and I'm only 23. I will not waste my youth despite having small children. I will try to be as independent as possible, persue my interests *in spite* of him It is not my fault that he has no personality, no hobbies, and is not a real person. I will live my life fully, and the children will benefit from a mom that tries to be happy as much as possible despite the circumstance. Thank you for your commment
I’m so glad I witnessed this early on. She had an abortion so I dodged that bullet. Never moved in with her but every time I try to get away, she hoovers and sucks me back in. I think I only go back to learn more about her so I can reassure myself I’m doing the right thing by staying away.
@@cairosilver2932Just as alcohol or drug use impairs some people's behaviour, Narcissism also can impair people's behaviour, wherever it occurs and to the extent it occurs, in all walks of life everywhere. This should be taught to children in schools.
If you really think about it, the Western ' empire ' into which we are enculturated and brainwashed, especially the missionary Christian dominionist side of it, is 100% narcissim. It is no surprise to me that as the Western empire is crumbling, while the 88% of the rest of the world finds ways to get along without the bully harrassment that our societies are now plagued with grandiose AND vulnerable narcissim.
I wish i learnt about narcissism when i was in my early 20's. I would have saved lot of time and money and disappointment. After I learnt about narcissism I realized and connected a lot of dots from my past and other people behaviours including my own. I had allowed way too many people to manipulate me and be a nice doormat to them, family, friends and colleagues and they were everywhere. And my knowledge about this topic has generally improved my understanding of people's behaviour. Thank you very much.
Yes. My covert narcissist sister loves to invent drama by claiming that you did her wrong but then refusing to give any details so you resolve the situation. That way, she can keep on acting superior and feel justified in punishing you.
When you do things for them, you somehow never do it right. You end up apologizing for bending over backwards and putting your life on hold for them. And as soon as you set a boundary they act like you are a cruel selfish monster with no kindness in your heart. You burn all of your emotional energy trying to prove that you are a good person.
Right? That’s the crazy making part - it’s NEVER enough. You could literally open your veins for them and they’d complain you’re staining the rug 🫣😤 It’s liberating once you realise that and give up trying
@@malindarayallen This is so true. God forbid you require some level of reciprocity. Then they turn it all around on you after behaving incompetent and not truly giving you what you asked for. Now, you’re the one for which nothing is never enough. Get as far away from these deranged people as possible.
They take and expect you to solve all their problems, but when you need their supports and validation, they aren't there for you. Vulnerable narcissists are as self-serving as other narcissists are.
@@rmyosp malign narcs are less dangerous in my opinion, as you can spot them a bit easier and sooner than the victimized blood sucking reality altering vulnerable narcs
@@marialundstedt2201 my father was a malignant narc and a violent rage-aholic and my mother an extreme passive aggressive vulnerable narc. They both managed to fuck us up completely , me and my brother . Sure, getting beaten up by knuckles of his hands every day was worse than anything my mother could accomplish, even though she hit me, too occasionally.
@@marialundstedt2201In a way yes, but being a scapegoated child of a vulnerable narcissist is terrible too, because you do not understand what is going on. At least the victims of an overt narcissist know that it's not ok to be yelled at etc. It was decades later that I even understood that the constant silent treatments, guilt tripping, the victimhood and the whining, the refusing to solve any problems and then whining about them, were abusive and I was living in constant silent terror which wrecked my life almost beyond repair.
Currently trying to divorce my vulnerable narcissist, as a kind and compassionate person at my core……this process is torturous. Thank you Dr. Ramani for the affirmation and encouragement. I will be free!!
I too am trying to divorce someone who fits the VN description. The amount of guilt I felt could have driven me to unalive myself, but at the same time I could not identify any particular thing I'd done so wrong that he should turn on me like a vicious animal. It has been so confusing! Nothing could have prepared me for it. And yet the more I uncover, the more I find out he was always much worse than I knew. I will say though, I have learned that I am much stronger than I ever suspected. I am coming out of this experience a much better, stronger, wiser person than I was before.
I left less than 2 weeks ago. This a is the hardest thing I’ve ever done (and I’m talking about 33 year marriage). Still I can feel hope and a network that f supportive friends is key! See the behavior for what it is an and write things down to help you stay strong in your resolve.
@@karenravensbergen you can do it. I left 33 year marriage 21 years ago. I’m turning 75 soon. Best thing I’ve ever done. But I’m like you. Very compassionate and caring. Leaving is so hard. We lost a marriage, a family, a dream. Hardening your heart against them is the worst. But it will get better. Give your compassion to yourself. You deserve it. Much luck and prayers. ❤️
Definitely been through this and I’m seeing it again. The attempt of a vulnerable narcissist, dragging you into their family drama. Worse, when they become ill, you’re the closest warm body and cannot readily escape. They will run you right up out of your life and have you thanking them for it, after freely working yourself to absolute death for them. Meanwhile, this “poor soul” has zero empathy and appreciation for you.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do more videos on vulnerable narcissists!! Its not talked about enough! Went through it with one for a year and it was just exhausting, trying to get out of the relationship was nearly impossible....this was a long distance relationship where we had never met at that. I could only imagine people going through it in person. They make you think they are the sweetest person that's been sh*tted on their whole life, when in reality their just manipilulative people that passive aggressively guilt trip when they don't get their way. And they always have a sob story for every occasion, especially from their childhood or friends that "don't treat them right". I was the evil villain that "lacked communication and sympathy" in the end because I no longer wanted to continue talking after being harrassed and bombarded with text messages when my phone broke and I couldn't keep in contact with him in the manner and time frame he wanted, even though I explicitly explained my situation time and time again. It wasn't enough, according to him I should have been using my MOTHERS phone to call him and keep in contact with him...the nerve.
Yup. I remember sitting, on vacation, in the most beautiful restaurant, high up overlooking the sea, islands, blue skies and fresh sea food. And he is complaining. He should be felt sorry for because he doesn't eat fish (other food available), too hot (AC), food taking too long... I was happy to tell him that I fact, I did not like him. No one could. But it took 20 years to get out. Moving on Thursday! :)
My ex-husband acted very pitiful all the time. This played on my empathy because I wanted to believe in him. What I got was a lot of future faking. He wanted me to give him just one more chance a thousand times (felt like a thousand times anyway). I finally was able to leave him because I had reached my breaking point. He took as much empathy from me as I was willing to give him (supply). As I continue to heal from this and other narcissistic relationships I have learned that when people show you who they are the first time, believe them.💕
My vulnerable narcissist mother notices me getting frustrated with her and says "uh, my daughter can barely stand me again!". And I'm silently thinking "yes, I can't stand you because you're being insufferable!". But of course I'm keeping it all in, being polite. But who's the bad one again? Me for not being able to contain my frustration 100%!
OMG. You nailed it. I apologized for so many things that I was not responsible for or did nothing to apologize for. All to just hopefully end the engagement. But, as you said, once it worked on me I ended up seeing it again and again. As time went on the frequency increased. Seeking pity and playing the victim was her hallmark. She actually said to me near the end of our marriage; "you don't pity me do you, you never pitied me."
Dr Ramani This is a crowbar moment for me. A deep honesty my 80 year old self wasn't equipped to express. I'm suppose to love my husband. No matter what. The introject is if I don't I've failed as a spiritual woman. Admitting to myself I do not love my husband has me reeling. 😮 And yet deep inside I'm finally becoming solid. A spiritual woman is an honest woman. Thank you for the crowbar.
I hate that we call this "vulnerable". They aren't vulnerable. It's all completely manipulative and calculated, and there are no genuine feelings except greed, envy, jealousy, hatred, and entitlement.
Correct. Perhaps vulnerable should be in inverted commas, as you have done. From my observations, every thing they do is to obtain positive feedback, like small children when they are told they did the best drawing, or have the prettiest dress.
It is disgusting how the covert narcisists push you into uncomfortable situations in which you are often compelled to lie and if you don’t, you also feel bad. It’s always a lose, lose case with a narcissist. If possible the best way is to avoid them and go and stay no contact.
My ex convinced me to lie to authorities, to shun neighbours and friends. If I didn’t do it he accused me of not supporting him, of not having his back. I realise now how, as the child of a narcissist and then marrying one, I did not develop strong values or identity. Now I’m discovering who I really am, after all these years. I am honest, warm, intelligent and fun. I won’t lie or deceive for anyone ever again.
At this point with my vulnerable narc mother, if she says me something like "you don't like me!" I'll tell the truth because it won't matter anyway. She's stuck in her endless delusion, and I'm going to speak up for myself. It's such a strange thing to have grown up in a household where I was always told to tell the truth, but yet not THAT truth. As a child that was so confusing, and as an adult it's infuriating that I'm held to a high standard when nobody else is. When I do tell the truth, I get screamed at. She's welcome to scream as much as she wants to. I'm tired of these immature and dumb little games. Telling the truth makes ME feel better, and that's what I need right now. Thanks, Dr. Ramani.
I had the Florence Nightingale syndrome of trying to help all of these troubled people in my life. They want your pity and they want to use your help but they never want to get better because using people benefits them.
9 years trying to prove to her that she was valuable because she trained me to do so. Even after she committed multiple betrayals, she somehow made me want to continue trying to prove myself. I am not a stupid person, but I was ignorant. I had no idea that evil people came in soft-spoken, vulnerable packages, and she duped me and confused me for years. It was an absolutely maddening experience that cost me everything.
Being with my ex narc for the past 8 yrs. made me observe this very pattern. I think they wanted to feel very important in a way that is disturbing. Instead of building trust with their intimate partners, they destroy the trust that they built with you (in that case lying when they tried to put you in their pedestal). Once they have a committed partner, they can’t stand being loved authentically by one person. Instead they go on and prey on other women that is susceptible to their love bombing. My ex narc was a compulsive pursuer in a relationship. He would go back and forth to the women he were involved before or try to meet women in complicated situation so that going public isn’t an option while having you as their main supply. In the end they destroy the very person that loved them. They are like toddlers testing your love for them. Showing and telling them you love them isn’t enough, they will cheat on your face to make you feel inadequate even if you are more than they deserve. They want to test your love for them so they keep hurting you and when you have enough of their abuse, you leave. Then they tell you, ‘you never loved me because you abandon me’. Well in fact it’s their actions and narcissistic behavior that made you leave or in other cases they discard you and will give silly reasons of the discard. Mine would use, ‘she’s crazy’, ‘she’s a nega-star’, ‘she insults me’, ‘she cheated on me’ et al. So with this pattern of infidelities and emotional abuse (who knows what else) it’s better to walk away. I did walk away and is now rebuilding my life with our daughter. We are struggling financially because I’m not earning enough to provide for my daughter but now we get to laugh and bring with us sunshine every day. No lies, no abuse and no fake love. We only live once, forgive yourself and move forward but never forget the lesson that narc abuse taught you. That is to respect yourself to walk away from what’s hurting and destroying you. That you deserve a life of solitude, happiness and love. Hugs*** :) Additionally I got to know about my narc husband bad ways when I reach out to a private detective digitalinvestigate@gmail. com for help he did a perfect work for me I can see everything he’s doing on his device.
You are spot on every time Dr. Ramani! I always nod my head consistently as you speak through these videos. A vulnerable narcissist is the most difficult to get out of because of the complexity. They create a psychological circus of gaslighting and victimizing themselves so much they create a responsibility of YOU to THEM. Any true compassionate loving person will stay years with these people because they switch up in the most calmest passive aggressive way where you think, "I must be the one tripping". The whole two facedness of a vulnerable narcissist is literally draining and thats why people who deal with them are alway walking on eggshells and are trained have a duty of YOU to THEM. That's pure control. That is top tier long term manipulation...Wicked.
I have spoken my truth to a vulnerable narcissist after she used the exact tactics described in this video. To be honest: It was a very satisfying experience! I wasn’t mean, just telling her that she is right that I am bothered by her behaviour. But of course there was a price to pay: She never spoke to me again, but launched a smear campaign immediately. These people are such cowards.
The 10 minutes I spent watching this video was more helpful to address the mind-F situation I am in at work than the 45 minute session with my therapist today. Thank you for helping me feel seen and understood today, Dr. Ramani. ❤
This is 💯 my mom with vulnerable narcissism. Constantly needing reassurance, praise and control, so becoming manipulative. She tries to use me to regulate her emotions at my expense and I am so tired of it. My dad does this too sometimes. Dislodging myself from it for my well being. Focusing on my life. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
In the love-bombing stage, when they start disclosing to you that they have been abandoned by everyone they have met in the past, immediately disengage and run!
I met a girl. She love bombed me hard in the first month, hard. That was my first red flag. “If you’re like that with me. Than who else?” Told me exactly what you just said and that she was so drawn to me. Then the “are you scared to lose me” and “i love you” after 5 weeks was the biggest red flag I’ve ever seen. I said “no. I’m not scared to lose you” “I don’t know you”. It’s been 5 days since we have spoken and I found this video trying to seek truth. I’m so glad to have found this comment. I’m out… 100% I can see clearly now. Thank everyone who made this possible. I needed the validation she was trouble and I’ve found it.
@@ShoeTheMakerI hope you stayed away. I went through the same exact thing. Hopefully she didn’t hook you through sex. A year and a half later I’ve been trying to go no contact but I struggle to completely cut her off.
@ I explained to her that either she needs to find accountability or love would never find her. She told me I behave erratically and I need therapy. Haven’t spoken to her since. Hahahaha…
@@Mermare yuppppp. My mom also did “I’m a terrible mother!!” And I once didn’t respond right away (I used to respond with reassurance and compliments) and she stopped wallowing immediately and just looked at me. She turned off the show sooooo fast when I didn’t respond how she wanted 😂
My mom's favourite is, "I must be the worst mother in the world!" Two weeks ago I told her that unfortunately I have never had another mother so I cannot make that comparison. 🤦🏾♀️
Oh wow, same for me "I guess I'm just a terrible mother then aren't i", "oh well I guess I got something right then". All the while they've been putting you down for decades and one little question sets them off!
Recently wriggled free from one who was trying to force me to walk on eggshells around them & had used me as a supply / helpline for many years. It was taking up a lot of time & energy to support this person, who used to change the subject or laugh inappropriately if I was upset or just needed to be heard. Very exhausting & as you say very frustrating, to have to deal with their chronic complaining & childish victimhood. Looking back it wasn’t a reciprocal relationship at all.
This is my 5th week after my dumping my vulnerable narc after almost 5 years of hell. And I am in the midst of verrrry victimized baiting to get me back to this vampire... I have left her already many times only this time around my HEART is allied with my brain and I have understood that there is ABSOLUTELY NO HOPE... The most difficult was to give up my DREAM of a future in two... It has died , though and I feel FREE AT LAST
I feel you! It’s my week 4 after 5 years of hell. And I’m going through a very similar process…the only time I want to cry is to mourn my dreams which weren’t meant to be fulfilled with this person. Keep strong, when we are bouncing off the darkest bottom to get to the light again, we still have to go through that pretty murky in-between, but it’s worth it. You are worth it❤
These 5 past years broke me down completely... My health, even physically and mentally, until I could not cope at my workplace either due to anxiety and panic attacks... I am on one month sick leave and hope to be able to go back by the end of September... I don't sleep and I have gained almost 20 kg by comfort eating, I have doubled my blood pressure, too... Etc etc. Jeez, what a price I had to pay to have let this monster into my life!
@@CaterinaRivanor omg same! I also gained weight, got thyroid problems etc, just trying to be a good wife and compromise. You can’t compromise with narcs, only sacrifice. My work was the thing that saved my mental health, because people there kept thanking me for my attention, care etc (I teach foreign languages). Otherwise I’m pretty sure I could literally die there. I hope this month soothes your wounds, don’t blame yourself for being loving and open. That love has been wasted for 5 years but when your battery recharges you’ll be giving it to yourself hopefully ❤️🩹
@@CaterinaRivanor narcissists will kill you through your nervous system. I'm so glad you are taking time to start your healing. Try to notice the moments of calm where there would have been stress and panic. Reconnect with what you love that your partner kept you away from. What you are doing is difficult and brave, and you should be so proud of yourself for getting out.
The assumption of my emotions by a vulnerable narc is the most provoking thing for me. It's as if my feelings are being hijacked by a passive aggressive victim
Yes! I had never had anyone do this to me and it was so confusing. Id frequently tell him to stop assuming my emotions and actually ask instead. Never really happened. Just like most of my simply requests they were ignored
Totally agree with exiting a covert narcissistic relationship. The NEX was very effective at appearing pathetic but then bounce back as the arrogant bully in a nanosecond. They count on our empathy to overtake our logic.
You just explained so much and put a name on what I've been experiencing for the past 5 years I thought what a narcissist was with someone that was arrogant had a huge ego I never knew that there was so many different kinds and this one is the absolute worst
But the flipside is if you’re dealing with passive-aggressive and spineless sadism and you confront them and say “I get the message” and ask what it is it they resent so much, they deny being hostile or vindictive and tell you you are paranoid. You don’t intentionally psychologically torture someone you love or care about. If they can’t be honest and tell they hate you it is usually because of a mixture of envy and shame.
I have two of those in my family: my mother and her mother...I cut contact with my grandmother years ago, which my mother tried everything to make me take back. I stood my ground after slipping up a few times. Didn't know about narcissism back then. Sad part is that my mother had every chance to get a good life, being surrounded by healthy people, but chose to go the same path, trying to become the golden child. I warned her years ago that her prioritizing her mother over me is going to ruin our relationship and now it's here. During our last conversation she made it very clear I'm not a priority. She can't even do a thing for me for 10 minutes, something I've been begging her to fix for over 2 years, even wishing as a birthday gift. Instead she's taking care of neighbours and putting herself into their business, being the good samaritan. She died for me right there. Now I'm trying to get my head around how you grieve someone's death who isn't actually dead. One of the things I struggle with again and again is: when they are doing hurtful and stupid things, they do it because that's who they are. When I do it I do it consciously and it feels immature and malicious. For example, I don't want to take her calls anymore, but I hate when people are stonewalling and don't want to act the same way. But to be fair that's what I need to do to stay sane. No matter how I do it I either go against myself or I have to cope with guilt and question my standards and who I am.
I explained him clearly why I am unhappy with what parts and what needs to change if we are to stay together. Not even such an action helps! No amount of effort and affection helps, they are black holes. Avoid them completely for your own sake.
She went from viewing me as a saviour, the only person who made her feel better - to an aloof, dismissing hatred. I was the villain, the cheater, I never 'cared for or loved her as much as she loved me'. She'd post song lyrics online about how I was never hers to love and she'd constantly beg me for reassurance. By the end, I was the supposed narcissist, she had done the right thing by leaving me behind. By the end I was so gaslit, apologising, guilty despite all my efforts, despite all my feelings, I was told that I never cared, I believed it, and therefore she was justified in ghosting me for a month, leaving me on a string and then vehemently stalking me for a year. In retrospect, she wasn't half wrong, there was always a part of me that was so unsure about her, her behaviours, her constant need for pity and validation. But the end was absolutely breaking.
Absolutely on target. My ex wife managed to isolate me, drain all of my energy and cost me pretty much everything. I'm still working on building the new "me" because the old "me" was pretty much destroyed trying to please her.
Thank you for this clear explanation of how a vulnerable narcissist works. I’ve experienced the testing within my family of origin. It is extremely difficult to effectively set boundaries with these people, especially if they have a familial family flying monkey squad.
I've concluded a lot of what went on between me and my vulnerable narcissistic mom was nonverbal. There was this constant sense that I was intolerably burdensome, just by my very presence.
I am over the people pleasing, so when my mother said to me other people told her how wonderful she was for caring for my dying dad but she needed me to say it I asked her why, and didn’t say it or pander. When she accused me of abandoning her and making my life all about me I told her I had, for a change made my life about me. She was actually left with not much to say. Except to give me the long list of sacrifices she had made for her family in her life, which I also refused to be drawn into.
Yeah, I had one of these, and God, did she manipulate me. I can still remember her voice: “You don’t love me anymore!” After I had a stroke, she went silent for a couple of years, then hit me up for money. When I didn’t respond, the “pity me” emails started. When I finally told her why I had gone no-contact, she lied about everything. Everything Dr. Ramani says in this video is true.
Classic description of my mother... I was still enjoying spending time with her and take care of her; until I turned 50 and something finally clicked and didn't want to play her game. She has gone no contact with me for 3 weeks and my blood pressure is finally normal. I don't miss her at all!!!!! I'm just worried about her; but not that much to go back to her. I'm sure she will come back on her own.
My mother has severe childhood trauma and is a vulnerable narcissist. I realized not too long ago I was her main supply and her parent. I have long been the stand in matriarch because my mom adamantly believes now is her time (she has believed this since I was a teen- I’m 58). My mom gets supply and at the end of any celebration I host, she asks “when am I going to see you next?”. She is incapable of doing something nice even her own children. Always lining up future supply.
It's only one-sided. They have no deep involvement in your life but have a lot to say about you. Little commitment, no involvement, keeps you guessing, silent treatments, "I love you" moments and right back to square one.
I cannot thank you enough. I am detaching from three decade long friendship with a vulnerable narcissist. iIt has been very difficult, and empowering at the same time. Dr Ramani you have helped me so much on this journey.
Yes!! Unfortunately I know this behavior all too well. Funny how there’s different types of narcissism. It’s kinda scary when you think about it. They come in all different forms. I hope we all rid ourselves of these people and heal and live a life that we can be proud and happy of. ❤️🩹🙏🫂
This is spot on and yet so much more nuanced than can be expressed in a teaching video. Yet Dr. Rama you do such a good job. thank you so much. “No place to speak your truth. Ends up fanning the flames.” “Victimized form or gaslighting.” Still when I am very direct and honest doesnt hit the mark either! Ugh! Not a dance I want to engage in in my Life anymore.
Yes this was a/was me! Hits the nail on the head. I left less than two weeks ago and am still steeped in guilt. Thanks for these videos which help me remember what I’ve been suffering for so long and keep my resolve.
I look after my elderly mother daily and she is a Covert Narcissist. I thank Dr Ramani from the bottom of my heart for allowing me to see that I am not crazy! (though I am damned tired!) The insights in these videos is absolutely priceless. I have also learned a ton from Dr. Les Carter. Thank you to both of these wonderful people!
I think some narcs are a combination of these, using one or the other approach in different situations. Ultimately, it's easier and almost predicatable to attract a narc when one hasn't done their own shadow work and internally come fully into their power, self-acceptance, and self-worth. Doing this work in the aftermath takes a long time. In hindsight, we may conclude, it's better than to have lived a dillusional life like some who never had to deal with a narc and so never had the opportunity to really work on healing themselves.
How many times have I told myself, don't humor someone just because I feel sorry for them? And then last night one person I both dislike and feel pity for, someone who I have given way too many passes to, said something really messed up about the death of a loved one of mine. I knew this person was like this. I blame myself
It's okay. You're not alone. Often, they have to go waaay over the line before the spell breaks. I've broken up with a friend for doing the exact same thing. It's the moment you realize you're not dealing with a human, and you never were.
My husband's sister made plans for me to take care of her dog while she had a knee surgery in the room where my dear husband was within a couple of weeks of dying from a brain tumor. This was after asking how much longer I thought he would live the week before. I was shocked that she could be so callous towards her brother and me. When I said I couldn't do it, she went all drama queen about not knowing how she didn't want to put her precious dog in a kennel during her knee surgery and recovery. She hadn't even contacted the surgeon yet. My sister in law was always needy, asking for money on a regular basis, always in more pain than anyone else, always had money problems or physical problems. It was exhausting having her around and when she visited us a few times a year, it seemed like she would never go home. I always felt relieved when she left after her visits. She has gone no contact after I made it clear that I could no longer be financially supportive of her after my beloved husband's death as my finances were cut due to his death.
My mother accused me that I would put a death light on her grave, and I would be in ironic mood while doing so. She is still alive to this day, mind you. I was a teenager at that time. Some people are really not quite right in their head.
OMG - THIS is my mother! And I am a major empath. We've always been like oil and water. Wow, I thought I finally had a full understanding of what she is. This just drilled down in more detail.
I always admire you, Ramani! Every time I encounter a narcissist I need to literally brainwash myself with your videos so that I'd have a firm ground under my feet, and to not lose my sense of reality. AND U so beautiful!
Never admits to anything and always the victim. Finally a name for what he is. Vulnerable, at 64 he's gone as far as tell me and I quote. "I'm telling my mom". I almost fell over backwards.
I think the vulnerable narcissist by far is the worst of the bunch because they blend in easier with other people. Once their supply is challenged or removed they can be quite insufferable.
Wow! This pretty much describes the last five years of my life spent in a very difficult relationship. I was always apologizing and feeling guilty for wanting to end things. I finally gathered the strength to get out of it, but it was incredibly difficult.
Great choice Now look at the positives You have your freedom Back Peace If will be difficult for a while, whilst you re Empower yourself, but it will be worth it. Well done.
My mother was a vulnerable narcissist to a tee. She used her ill health as a way to trap me into doing whatever she wanted me to do to care for her and “keep the peace” in the process. If I expressed any concern about her behavior I was told “I am your mother. You owe me for giving birth to you and providing for you”. Don’t you care about me?”
My mother withdrew love and became very passive aggressive, leaving me trying to mind read. Her and my father (he actually said it at 10 yews old), that I was the reason she was sick. She just went silent and insinuated it. The galling part is they made me sick and now I am very ill she has been invalidating, brush and he has name called and raged.
He was more poor me in the way of fishing for constant compliments... "Everything's better with Dale here, right? Life's more fun with Dale here, right?" referring to himself in 3rd person for whatever. If I didn't respond etc .. he'd get mad and go pout. Or if he actually did something around the house or yard "Did you see what I did!? Did you see it!? Can I get an atta boy!?" Like a little kid and he's 58... I'd be like - Wow, great job, you did the dishes or put his own clothes away etc... 🤦♀️😵💫
My mother flip flops between the two. Extrovert and vulnerable narcissist. I've gone no contact and after the initial grief, battling the internal guilt, I've finally gotten to the absolute best I've ever felt!
in my experience, the vulnerable covert narc would violate my boundaries and look for signs and forgiveness that it was ok, and if it wasn't? I'd get the silent treatment, phony apologies, and them later on trying to resume the relationship as if what they had done is ok, and the issue of my boundaries is a "disagreement" not a violation. and if I refused to go along with this, I'd get silent treatment and them accusing me of piling on them when they already hate themselves. so, the manipulation wasn't just about their self worth but it was also about them seeking permission to violate boundaries and be forgiven/absolved as if that indicated their worth and was something they're entitled to if they're going to stick around
Wow, this is a description of my mother... You put into words what i couldn't explain, thank you. My mother is really nice to other people (including my sister), so almost nobody else sees this behaviour from her. My father knows but he adores her. Haven't seen or spoken to her since march '24 because she went insane when i told her i just wanted to live my life, like my sister is doing.
This is so true of my mother. It has taken three "parting of the ways" (no contact) to finally know this is the final and successful break. It's been almost 12 months since the final "no contact" and I've finally had time to recover and heal. For anyone in the same boat - hang in there. Be kind to yourself. This is hard. The patterns hold so much pull. The death of my father pulled me back into contact after 9 years of peace. 18 months of treading the trauma bonds again sent me into burnout, so back to therapy and finally, the line in the sand was drawn for the final time. This stuff is SO tricky. The guilt feels like it's engraved on our bones. The letter that claimed the final "great divide" left me shaking with trauma. But push through. Your peace of mind is worth it. And it's never too late to leave your family trauma patterns. Almost a year of peace later, I am stronger and wiser than ever. My two pennith is - always be kind to yourself. Even when you dip a toe back in the emotional quicksand when you end up in guilt (like with the death of the enabler parent). Your emotional wellbeing is on the line. Be kind and patient with yourself. The peace of mind is priceless so if it takes a few goes to establish no contact, that's OK
When married I had no idea what I was dealing with, I now understand that the ex was a malignant covert narcissist. He even tried to kill me. Run from these monsters as fast as you can!
Dr Ramani, thank you for giving me the knowledge to know what I've been married to. But most importantly the COURAGE, to tell my N wife of 25 years with her denying the countless affairs in the last few years - that I just discovered THIS year btw - that I am DONE. It's been 9 months of hell since I found out, and seeing her act like nothing is going on while I'm in such mental and emotional pain is beyond description. So...Tomorrow is the day I tell her we either go uncontested or contested divorce. Yes, I'm nervous for some reason, but at 55 yrs old, I don't want to live the rest of my life this way.
I’ve known about this behaviour for all of my life because of my mother and other friends that I made that I obviously attracted because of what I now see as abuse. I didn’t see it as abuse at the time because I always associated abuse with physical sexual and neglect. It’s very difficult to prove mental abuse and people don’t believe you. Watching your videos has helped me understand exactly what narcissism is and I think my mother and a former friend of mine fit into this vulnerable narcissism category. Outwardly they appear outgoing and extrovert in front of loads of people but when I was alone with them they acted completely different and when I tried to explain this to others, I wasn’t believed either. Thank you for all the work that you have done to shine a light on narcissism and the effects this behaviour has on people and their lives
I got the “you don’t like anyone” and “everyone likes me” and nobody likes you.” I almost always feeling bad that I let myself get frustrated with his selfishness and passive aggressive anger. Me trying to be the mommy to soothe his hurts. Me trying to keep the relationship together. He thrived on saying “no” or “maybe” or “put it on the calendar” when I suggested activities we could try together. He rarely, maybe never once we were married, offered activity suggestions and when he reluctantly did join me in an activity he was sullen and morose. So I’d search for a new activity. Endless loop. A thirty year nightmare. When he discarded me, he told me that I “pushed him away.” Good grief what a messed up dude.
Was married for 10 years to a narcissist of this type. History of depression & addiction. SO glad to have gotten out, although (like clockwork) every time I feel free of this person, they pop back into my life. (Father is a stereotypical grandiose type narcissist.)
I was friends with a vulnerable narcissist for a long time. I was always there for her, I was trying to be a good friend. I did everything she wanted and it still wasn't enough. You're exactly right about the small pokes. That friendship was death by 1000 papercuts. I was so much less stressed after I stopped talking to her. I hadn't spoken to her in about 5 years and she messaged a mutual friend that she was mad I haven't liked any of her Facebook posts about her new baby. It's wild that she still wants me for supply even though I haven't been part of her life in years.
This was very helpful, as have been all your videos on vulnerable narcissism, the condition that my soon to be ex-husband presents. His m.o. was to intentionally mischaracterize what I had said as a criticism when it was exactly the opposite -- my "Oh that paralegal course you're considering looks cool" became" you're not smart enough to be a lawyer". That sort of thing, which made me INSANE -- it was so cruel to me, to have my words twisted. And I kept going back trying to fix his interpretation, which was of course throwing pennies down a well. I was hooked until my lightbulb moment when my sister said "He doesn't actually think that. He says that because it makes you engage." The minute I saw his actions as truly manipulative the scales fell from my eyes, I started to recognize all of the many, subtle manipulations he had practiced on me for 10 years, and I was set free.
omg you've described my ex! I appreciate all your videos soooo much, because it validates my feelings to know I'm not crazy. I did this back and forth.. anger, feeling bad, pity, reassurance, and repeat. Please know that you've helped me to get out of this relationship and start to heal. I bought both of your books, like the videos, and subscribed to the channel as my way of showing appreciation. This has also helped me to learn about my mother, the self-righteous covert narcissist. It's like I woke up and radical acceptance has stopped me from trying to please her because she's always right and has to criticise me no matter what I do, so now I've limited my interaction with her and my life has been less anxious. Thanks again Dr. Ramani!! ❤😊
Tapping out from these conversations always works best for me. Phrases like, "I'm not sure I can give you the answer you want" tend to work well for me. And just avoiding the conversation and refocusing too. It's such a short distance from "they don't deserve my truth" to "what's the point of talking about it?" My time and energy is better spent in other relationships.
I find this vulnerable narcissists the hardest. Constant victimhood, complaining, blaming everyone except them and guilt tripping, just unbearable.
Totally agree with you. It is draining. I have seen this in my family a lot.
I'm pretty sure all manipulative people who have self-worth problems are all insufferable.
Paralysis
Vulnerable narcissists will groom you by saying that everyone else in their life has abandoned or betrayed them, they set you up to prove that you are different and would never let them down. Then, when you start pulling back for your own survival, they say "See? Your just like the rest of them!"
I have joined the company of “crazy women” who wronged him and left him devastated… and I’m okay with that! 😂
"Pulling back for your own survival!"
@@edelweissdebergbaldrian7696
Perfectly said!👍👍
They basically want the unconditional love of a parent (which doesn't work with someone who is not their parent) but they are also at the two year old stage where they don't feel love for the parent - and they wont be leaving that stage. They both desperately want attachment and have contempt for attachment.
Exactly!!@@cairosilver2932
They really try to keep you stuck in their emotional web by making you feel like you are the only one that can actually help them, until you realize how drained you are.
💯!!
Emotional blackmail. 🖤🖤
@@OmniTarget13 True!
OH MY GOD THISS
This is exactly what the guy I started dating was doing. It was crazy. I’m so glad I got out of that situation
This was my ex-boyfriend. He played on my empathy, and the gaslighting had me thinking I was losing my mind. I finally hit my limit and kicked him out of my house. I finally accepted that no matter what I did, I would be the villain in his story. I'm still working on putting the pieces of my life back together 2 years later, but the peace of not having him in my home and dealing with his moods has been immeasurable.
If you are in a similar situation, you will be the villain in their story no matter how much you give, sacrifice, and bend over backward to try to satisfy their needs. You will never convince them otherwise. Realize there is nothing you can do to show them you really are a good person. Anytime you start to question yourself, remember this.
You may be the villain in his story, but he's a 🤡 in yours!
Exactly the same thing happened to me, but I was the one to move in, there were numerous times when I questioned my own sanity because of the way my mind was being played with. After the breakup when I looked back all the signs were there but I had downplayed them, which led me to blame myself and go through the darkest time of my entire life. But right now I'm so grateful because all the misery I lived motivated me to learn more and work on certain weaknesses I didn't know I had, and now when I see certain patterns, I remove myself from the equation before things get worse; not just in love relationships but also with friends and even family. So I can say " I'm so f#^%$ng grateful for my ex" ... I'm so thankful for therapy and @DoctorRamani because they helped me get through it.
Wow our stories are too similar.🫶
I’m living with my partner of 4 years and just now I’m waking up. He uses “chemical sensitivities “ to make my life chaos. I tried to help him so much only to find he had a dating profile on canary singles (for chemical sensitivities people), wanted me to visit with ex-wife to learn from her (because I didn’t get it), even have me so anxious because “ maybe he needs to be in a relationship with a woman who has the same issues, (because she would understand him), and even recently have his daughter send an add from the local list serve from a woman looking to meet people with this issue and making sure that he contacted her (he didn’t), and drive my car all summer because he was “reacting “ to the EMFs or smells in the car he was trying to buy. I’m now so traumatized, I have been through so much with him. And nothing helps.
Wow, thank you for bravely sharing your story. I was literally told by my ex "I made you the villain of my story and I told my mom, sister, and friends that too." I was baffled. Now, when there are moments I question myself if I did enough, I remember there was nothing we could do to show them otherwise. These folks already had a distorted untruthful narrative about us from day one.
Extremely accurate to my experience. And they will guilt trip you, so you go out of your way to do things either for them or to avoid upsetting them. Then when you tell them you did it that way for them, they gaslight you into thinking they didn’t care about it in the first place. Exhausting, draining, crazymaking. I’m 6 weeks out of it and all my mysterious fatigue finally seems to have cleared and I feel fresh and ready for life again. Strength to everyone going through this, especially if you have no familiarity with this stuff and are just waking up to it. The more you understand it, the more you will heal. xx
And they push everyone away then play the victim because they’re all alone!!
A malignant narcissist can resort to a vulnerable narcissist persona when they have burned too many bridges and alienated too many sources of supply. The guilt trips are designed to bring you back into their orbit. And suddenly, you're back under their boot. When you've come so far in shaking off their influence and getting your life back, it's the final test of wits and nerve to hold the line, refuse the overtures and the lovebombing and the "poor me" tirades, keep the calm, polite grey-rock wall up, and walk away. Sometimes the pity I feel is almost my undoing.... But I'm not going back.
What would be the difference between the narc ignoring you, or trying to get you back?
Absolutely 💯. That's how my malignant narc pulled me back in, but luckily thanks to the orchestrates efforts of - no less than seven people - family and friends I was extricated. It was like a covert mission of freeing me from my captor. No kidding.
@@ΔημητραΚατσικιδη Aw, thank you for sharing this! 😃We hear so many stories of enablers siding with the narcissist (my experience🥺), that it's healing to hear a GOOD story of community support and rescue! So glad you and @jilllloyd7792 made it out! ❤
Perfectly describing my father. Malignant to the point of being truly predatory (thanks grandma), but is able to pretend to be lost and vulnerable and sucking victims back in.
I’m told I’m heartless because I won’t take his presence seriously at all. I’d rather be wrong and safe than be his victim again.
Perfectly describing my father. Malignant to the point of being truly predatory (thanks grandma), but is able to pretend to be lost and vulnerable and sucking victims back in.
I’m told I’m heartless because I won’t take his presence seriously at all. I’d rather be wrong and safe than be his victim again.
The moment you realise the vulnerable narcissist puts their interests above yours, you will know they deserve no empathy from you
I stayed for 40 years because of a need to convince him he was loved. It has cost me my physical and emotional health, the children’s emotional health and my financial health. I’ve been out for 6 years but still recovering.
If you’re young, please, please take care of your own finances and in sure your own retirement. And if you haven’t already, don’t have children with them.
For those here, you have my best wishes for safe and as smooth as possible ways out of these relationships with healing and thriving in your not too distant future.
This is Exactly my story as well, OH how I wish I had kept my independence, how STUPID was I, giving that over.
I also am now 5yrs post a long term marriage, right at the time I should have been able to Retire, I discovered he had been having an Affair, off having a wonderful time whilst I was working 12 hr shifts😢
He never helped around the house, he stated he was too busy!!! But he did have time to workout his Penis😮
I had then to work Long, putting off retirement
Buy my own home back,
And trying and also put money aside for retirement
All hopefully before I drop dead.
Stay strong
You are worthy
Enjoy your New Life
@@JohannaVanDreumel I’m sorry for your difficulties. However, somehow we become conditioned to be in and stay in these relationships. Please be kind to yourself and see yourself as the strong person you are rather than stupid. May you experience healing and find a path to happiness.
Thank you.
It'll be a long way for me to get out of this relationship,but I am biding my time. Unfortunately, 3 children deep and I'm only 23. I will not waste my youth despite having small children. I will try to be as independent as possible, persue my interests *in spite* of him
It is not my fault that he has no personality, no hobbies, and is not a real person. I will live my life fully, and the children will benefit from a mom that tries to be happy as much as possible despite the circumstance. Thank you for your commment
I’m so glad I witnessed this early on. She had an abortion so I dodged that bullet. Never moved in with her but every time I try to get away, she hoovers and sucks me back in. I think I only go back to learn more about her so I can reassure myself I’m doing the right thing by staying away.
Narcissism is just scary all around! Biggest Adult life lesson, these people exist everywhere.
@@AvaJulani This is like saying everyone who has a drink is an alcoholic
Ikr - they're absolutely everywhere & I'm like a magnet to them. I see it quickly now but I want to attract loving ppl!
@@cairosilver2932Just as alcohol or drug use impairs some people's behaviour, Narcissism also can impair people's behaviour, wherever it occurs and to the extent it occurs, in all walks of life everywhere. This should be taught to children in schools.
If you really think about it, the Western ' empire ' into which we are enculturated and brainwashed, especially the missionary Christian dominionist side of it, is 100% narcissim. It is no surprise to me that as the Western empire is crumbling, while the 88% of the rest of the world finds ways to get along without the bully harrassment that our societies are now plagued with grandiose AND vulnerable narcissim.
I wish i learnt about narcissism when i was in my early 20's. I would have saved lot of time and money and disappointment. After I learnt about narcissism I realized and connected a lot of dots from my past and other people behaviours including my own. I had allowed way too many people to manipulate me and be a nice doormat to them, family, friends and colleagues and they were everywhere. And my knowledge about this topic has generally improved my understanding of people's behaviour. Thank you very much.
Passive aggressive behavior is very confusing and vexing.
@@sushmayen pure evil, devilish actually
Yes. My covert narcissist sister loves to invent drama by claiming that you did her wrong but then refusing to give any details so you resolve the situation. That way, she can keep on acting superior and feel justified in punishing you.
When you do things for them, you somehow never do it right. You end up apologizing for bending over backwards and putting your life on hold for them. And as soon as you set a boundary they act like you are a cruel selfish monster with no kindness in your heart. You burn all of your emotional energy trying to prove that you are a good person.
Right? That’s the crazy making part - it’s NEVER enough. You could literally open your veins for them and they’d complain you’re staining the rug 🫣😤
It’s liberating once you realise that and give up trying
@@EH23831 yes!!!
@@malindarayallen This is so true. God forbid you require some level of reciprocity. Then they turn it all around on you after behaving incompetent and not truly giving you what you asked for. Now, you’re the one for which nothing is never enough.
Get as far away from these deranged people as possible.
They take and expect you to solve all their problems, but when you need their supports and validation, they aren't there for you. Vulnerable narcissists are as self-serving as other narcissists are.
@@rmyosp malign narcs are less dangerous in my opinion, as you can spot them a bit easier and sooner than the victimized blood sucking reality altering vulnerable narcs
Just dumped a friend for not being there when I was in a really bad space and instead making it all about them. Last straw moment.
@@CaterinaRivanorexcept for the case of children, the malignant is definitely more dangerous to them... 😔
@@marialundstedt2201 my father was a malignant narc and a violent rage-aholic and my mother an extreme passive aggressive vulnerable narc. They both managed to fuck us up completely , me and my brother . Sure, getting beaten up by knuckles of his hands every day was worse than anything my mother could accomplish, even though she hit me, too occasionally.
@@marialundstedt2201In a way yes, but being a scapegoated child of a vulnerable narcissist is terrible too, because you do not understand what is going on. At least the victims of an overt narcissist know that it's not ok to be yelled at etc. It was decades later that I even understood that the constant silent treatments, guilt tripping, the victimhood and the whining, the refusing to solve any problems and then whining about them, were abusive and I was living in constant silent terror which wrecked my life almost beyond repair.
Currently trying to divorce my vulnerable narcissist, as a kind and compassionate person at my core……this process is torturous.
Thank you Dr. Ramani for the affirmation and encouragement.
I will be free!!
That was me! I did it. You can too. Very hard to harden your heart but absolutely necessary. Agree. It’s hell!
I too am trying to divorce someone who fits the VN description. The amount of guilt I felt could have driven me to unalive myself, but at the same time I could not identify any particular thing I'd done so wrong that he should turn on me like a vicious animal. It has been so confusing! Nothing could have prepared me for it. And yet the more I uncover, the more I find out he was always much worse than I knew. I will say though, I have learned that I am much stronger than I ever suspected. I am coming out of this experience a much better, stronger, wiser person than I was before.
I left less than 2 weeks ago. This a is the hardest thing I’ve ever done (and I’m talking about 33 year marriage). Still I can feel hope and a network that f supportive friends is key! See the behavior for what it is an and write things down to help you stay strong in your resolve.
@@karenravensbergen you can do it. I left 33 year marriage 21 years ago. I’m turning 75 soon. Best thing I’ve ever done. But I’m like you. Very compassionate and caring. Leaving is so hard. We lost a marriage, a family, a dream. Hardening your heart against them is the worst. But it will get better. Give your compassion to yourself. You deserve it. Much luck and prayers. ❤️
@@marcamp5450 yes! Grieving all those losses. Thank you so much for encouraging words 🙏🏻
Sometimes, it helps to ask them questions in return. For instance: "If you think I don't like you, why do you spend time with me?"
The answer is always they don’t know. They are vulnerable with their true feelings.
The vulnerable kind can also exhibit signs of both the malignant and grandiose kinds ...
I was going to say I’ve seen the grandiose kind act vulnerable plenty of times
Yes, I came here to say this !
100%!!!
I was thinking the same.
Definitely been through this and I’m seeing it again. The attempt of a vulnerable narcissist, dragging you into their family drama. Worse, when they become ill, you’re the closest warm body and cannot readily escape. They will run you right up out of your life and have you thanking them for it, after freely working yourself to absolute death for them. Meanwhile, this “poor soul” has zero empathy and appreciation for you.
Yep, I can relate, sadly.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do more videos on vulnerable narcissists!! Its not talked about enough! Went through it with one for a year and it was just exhausting, trying to get out of the relationship was nearly impossible....this was a long distance relationship where we had never met at that. I could only imagine people going through it in person. They make you think they are the sweetest person that's been sh*tted on their whole life, when in reality their just manipilulative people that passive aggressively guilt trip when they don't get their way. And they always have a sob story for every occasion, especially from their childhood or friends that "don't treat them right". I was the evil villain that "lacked communication and sympathy" in the end because I no longer wanted to continue talking after being harrassed and bombarded with text messages when my phone broke and I couldn't keep in contact with him in the manner and time frame he wanted, even though I explicitly explained my situation time and time again. It wasn't enough, according to him I should have been using my MOTHERS phone to call him and keep in contact with him...the nerve.
Yup. I remember sitting, on vacation, in the most beautiful restaurant, high up overlooking the sea, islands, blue skies and fresh sea food. And he is complaining. He should be felt sorry for because he doesn't eat fish (other food available), too hot (AC), food taking too long... I was happy to tell him that I fact, I did not like him. No one could. But it took 20 years to get out. Moving on Thursday! :)
Congrats! Love your best life 🎉
My ex ruined every vacation, even our honeymoon
My ex husband was behaving the same, always complaining, ruining holidays .
My ex-husband acted very pitiful all the time. This played on my empathy because I wanted to believe in him. What I got was a lot of future faking. He wanted me to give him just one more chance a thousand times (felt like a thousand times anyway). I finally was able to leave him because I had reached my breaking point. He took as much empathy from me as I was willing to give him (supply). As I continue to heal from this and other narcissistic relationships I have learned that when people show you who they are the first time, believe them.💕
@@vickyl1010 these could have been my words... Very true indeed!
The "one more chance" and I'll do better. 10 years of hell and mind games.
My vulnerable narcissist mother notices me getting frustrated with her and says "uh, my daughter can barely stand me again!". And I'm silently thinking "yes, I can't stand you because you're being insufferable!". But of course I'm keeping it all in, being polite. But who's the bad one again? Me for not being able to contain my frustration 100%!
OMG. You nailed it.
I apologized for so many things that I was not responsible for or did nothing to apologize for. All to just hopefully end the engagement.
But, as you said, once it worked on me I ended up seeing it again and again. As time went on the frequency increased.
Seeking pity and playing the victim was her hallmark. She actually said to me near the end of our marriage; "you don't pity me do you, you never pitied me."
Dr Ramani
This is a crowbar moment for me. A deep honesty my 80 year old self wasn't equipped to express.
I'm suppose to love my husband. No matter what.
The introject is if I don't I've failed as a spiritual woman.
Admitting to myself I do not love my husband has me reeling. 😮
And yet deep inside I'm finally becoming solid.
A spiritual woman is an honest woman.
Thank you for the crowbar.
♥️♥️♥️
What a blessing for you 🙏❤
I hate that we call this "vulnerable". They aren't vulnerable. It's all completely manipulative and calculated, and there are no genuine feelings except greed, envy, jealousy, hatred, and entitlement.
Correct. Perhaps vulnerable should be in inverted commas, as you have done. From my observations, every thing they do is to obtain positive feedback, like small children when they are told they did the best drawing, or have the prettiest dress.
They seem 'vulnerable ' because of them playing a victim
It is disgusting how the covert narcisists push you into uncomfortable situations in which you are often compelled to lie and if you don’t, you also feel bad. It’s always a lose, lose case with a narcissist. If possible the best way is to avoid them and go and stay no contact.
My ex convinced me to lie to authorities, to shun neighbours and friends. If I didn’t do it he accused me of not supporting him, of not having his back.
I realise now how, as the child of a narcissist and then marrying one, I did not develop strong values or identity.
Now I’m discovering who I really am, after all these years. I am honest, warm, intelligent and fun. I won’t lie or deceive for anyone ever again.
Dr. Ramani, I hope you see this. You are saving my life and so many others. You are beautiful with a matching soul and I appreciate you so much.
At this point with my vulnerable narc mother, if she says me something like "you don't like me!" I'll tell the truth because it won't matter anyway. She's stuck in her endless delusion, and I'm going to speak up for myself. It's such a strange thing to have grown up in a household where I was always told to tell the truth, but yet not THAT truth. As a child that was so confusing, and as an adult it's infuriating that I'm held to a high standard when nobody else is. When I do tell the truth, I get screamed at. She's welcome to scream as much as she wants to. I'm tired of these immature and dumb little games. Telling the truth makes ME feel better, and that's what I need right now.
Thanks, Dr. Ramani.
You aren't kidding when you said these are the hardest people to get rid of.
I had the Florence Nightingale syndrome of trying to help all of these troubled people in my life.
They want your pity and they want to use your help but they never want to get better because using people benefits them.
9 years trying to prove to her that she was valuable because she trained me to do so. Even after she committed multiple betrayals, she somehow made me want to continue trying to prove myself. I am not a stupid person, but I was ignorant. I had no idea that evil people came in soft-spoken, vulnerable packages, and she duped me and confused me for years. It was an absolutely maddening experience that cost me everything.
Same here brother
Being with my ex narc for the past 8 yrs. made me observe this very pattern. I think they wanted to feel very important in a way that is disturbing. Instead of building trust with their intimate partners, they destroy the trust that they built with you (in that case lying when they tried to put you in their pedestal). Once they have a committed partner, they can’t stand being loved authentically by one person. Instead they go on and prey on other women that is susceptible to their love bombing. My ex narc was a compulsive pursuer in a relationship. He would go back and forth to the women he were involved before or try to meet women in complicated situation so that going public isn’t an option while having you as their main supply. In the end they destroy the very person that loved them. They are like toddlers testing your love for them. Showing and telling them you love them isn’t enough, they will cheat on your face to make you feel inadequate even if you are more than they deserve. They want to test your love for them so they keep hurting you and when you have enough of their abuse, you leave. Then they tell you, ‘you never loved me because you abandon me’. Well in fact it’s their actions and narcissistic behavior that made you leave or in other cases they discard you and will give silly reasons of the discard. Mine would use, ‘she’s crazy’, ‘she’s a nega-star’, ‘she insults me’, ‘she cheated on me’ et al. So with this pattern of infidelities and emotional abuse (who knows what else) it’s better to walk away. I did walk away and is now rebuilding my life with our daughter. We are struggling financially because I’m not earning enough to provide for my daughter but now we get to laugh and bring with us sunshine every day. No lies, no abuse and no fake love. We only live once, forgive yourself and move forward but never forget the lesson that narc abuse taught you. That is to respect yourself to walk away from what’s hurting and destroying you. That you deserve a life of solitude, happiness and love. Hugs*** :) Additionally I got to know about my narc husband bad ways when I reach out to a private detective digitalinvestigate@gmail. com for help he did a perfect work for me I can see everything he’s doing on his device.
You are spot on every time Dr. Ramani! I always nod my head consistently as you speak through these videos. A vulnerable narcissist is the most difficult to get out of because of the complexity. They create a psychological circus of gaslighting and victimizing themselves so much they create a responsibility of YOU to THEM. Any true compassionate loving person will stay years with these people because they switch up in the most calmest passive aggressive way where you think, "I must be the one tripping". The whole two facedness of a vulnerable narcissist is literally draining and thats why people who deal with them are alway walking on eggshells and are trained have a duty of YOU to THEM. That's pure control. That is top tier long term manipulation...Wicked.
I have spoken my truth to a vulnerable narcissist after she used the exact tactics described in this video. To be honest: It was a very satisfying experience! I wasn’t mean, just telling her that she is right that I am bothered by her behaviour. But of course there was a price to pay: She never spoke to me again, but launched a smear campaign immediately. These people are such cowards.
Sneaky, conniving cowards.
The 10 minutes I spent watching this video was more helpful to address the mind-F situation I am in at work than the 45 minute session with my therapist today. Thank you for helping me feel seen and understood today, Dr. Ramani. ❤
My Ex said "you just want a different husband" so often it almost became self-fulfilling. I didn't leave him for another, but I did leave.
This is 💯 my mom with vulnerable narcissism. Constantly needing reassurance, praise and control, so becoming manipulative. She tries to use me to regulate her emotions at my expense and I am so tired of it. My dad does this too sometimes. Dislodging myself from it for my well being. Focusing on my life. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
In the love-bombing stage, when they start disclosing to you that they have been abandoned by everyone they have met in the past, immediately disengage and run!
100%
I met a girl. She love bombed me hard in the first month, hard. That was my first red flag. “If you’re like that with me. Than who else?”
Told me exactly what you just said and that she was so drawn to me. Then the “are you scared to lose me” and “i love you” after 5 weeks was the biggest red flag I’ve ever seen. I said “no. I’m not scared to lose you” “I don’t know you”. It’s been 5 days since we have spoken and I found this video trying to seek truth. I’m so glad to have found this comment. I’m out… 100% I can see clearly now. Thank everyone who made this possible. I needed the validation she was trouble and I’ve found it.
@@ShoeTheMakerI hope you stayed away. I went through the same exact thing. Hopefully she didn’t hook you through sex. A year and a half later I’ve been trying to go no contact but I struggle to completely cut her off.
@ I explained to her that either she needs to find accountability or love would never find her. She told me I behave erratically and I need therapy. Haven’t spoken to her since.
Hahahaha…
@@ShoeTheMaker Looks like a lot of projection from that one. She definitely isn't worth it.
My mom’s go to line is “you must really hate me!!” If I ever shared anything she did wrong
My dad's was "well, I guess I'm just a piece of shit then". Like they want you to reassure them how great they are.
@@Mermare yuppppp. My mom also did “I’m a terrible mother!!” And I once didn’t respond right away (I used to respond with reassurance and compliments) and she stopped wallowing immediately and just looked at me. She turned off the show sooooo fast when I didn’t respond how she wanted 😂
My mom's favourite is, "I must be the worst mother in the world!"
Two weeks ago I told her that unfortunately I have never had another mother so I cannot make that comparison. 🤦🏾♀️
Oh wow, same for me "I guess I'm just a terrible mother then aren't i", "oh well I guess I got something right then". All the while they've been putting you down for decades and one little question sets them off!
Recently wriggled free from one who was trying to force me to walk on eggshells around them & had used me as a supply / helpline for many years. It was taking up a lot of time & energy to support this person, who used to change the subject or laugh inappropriately if I was upset or just needed to be heard. Very exhausting & as you say very frustrating, to have to deal with their chronic complaining & childish victimhood. Looking back it wasn’t a reciprocal relationship at all.
This is my 5th week after my dumping my vulnerable narc after almost 5 years of hell. And I am in the midst of verrrry victimized baiting to get me back to this vampire... I have left her already many times only this time around my HEART is allied with my brain and I have understood that there is ABSOLUTELY NO HOPE... The most difficult was to give up my DREAM of a future in two... It has died , though and I feel FREE AT LAST
Good for you!!! It's tough and complicated, but you got this!🎉❤
I feel you! It’s my week 4 after 5 years of hell. And I’m going through a very similar process…the only time I want to cry is to mourn my dreams which weren’t meant to be fulfilled with this person. Keep strong, when we are bouncing off the darkest bottom to get to the light again, we still have to go through that pretty murky in-between, but it’s worth it. You are worth it❤
These 5 past years broke me down completely... My health, even physically and mentally, until I could not cope at my workplace either due to anxiety and panic attacks... I am on one month sick leave and hope to be able to go back by the end of September... I don't sleep and I have gained almost 20 kg by comfort eating, I have doubled my blood pressure, too... Etc etc. Jeez, what a price I had to pay to have let this monster into my life!
@@CaterinaRivanor omg same! I also gained weight, got thyroid problems etc, just trying to be a good wife and compromise. You can’t compromise with narcs, only sacrifice. My work was the thing that saved my mental health, because people there kept thanking me for my attention, care etc (I teach foreign languages). Otherwise I’m pretty sure I could literally die there. I hope this month soothes your wounds, don’t blame yourself for being loving and open. That love has been wasted for 5 years but when your battery recharges you’ll be giving it to yourself hopefully ❤️🩹
@@CaterinaRivanor narcissists will kill you through your nervous system. I'm so glad you are taking time to start your healing. Try to notice the moments of calm where there would have been stress and panic. Reconnect with what you love that your partner kept you away from. What you are doing is difficult and brave, and you should be so proud of yourself for getting out.
The assumption of my emotions by a vulnerable narc is the most provoking thing for me. It's as if my feelings are being hijacked by a passive aggressive victim
Yes! I had never had anyone do this to me and it was so confusing. Id frequently tell him to stop assuming my emotions and actually ask instead. Never really happened. Just like most of my simply requests they were ignored
Same here, it's maddening
Totally agree with exiting a covert narcissistic relationship. The NEX was very effective at appearing pathetic but then bounce back as the arrogant bully in a nanosecond. They count on our empathy to overtake our logic.
You just explained so much and put a name on what I've been experiencing for the past 5 years
I thought what a narcissist was with someone that was arrogant had a huge ego I never knew that there was so many different kinds and this one is the absolute worst
That's how I was too. I thought narcissists were people with overblown egos. It's much worse than that.
Me too x
Same here 😣
Vulnerable narcissists are those who complain about humanity all the time, just disgusting, don't bother yourself with them
But the flipside is if you’re dealing with passive-aggressive and spineless sadism and you confront them and say “I get the message” and ask what it is it they resent so much, they deny being hostile or vindictive and tell you you are paranoid.
You don’t intentionally psychologically torture someone you love or care about.
If they can’t be honest and tell they hate you it is usually because of a mixture of envy and shame.
I have two of those in my family: my mother and her mother...I cut contact with my grandmother years ago, which my mother tried everything to make me take back. I stood my ground after slipping up a few times. Didn't know about narcissism back then. Sad part is that my mother had every chance to get a good life, being surrounded by healthy people, but chose to go the same path, trying to become the golden child. I warned her years ago that her prioritizing her mother over me is going to ruin our relationship and now it's here. During our last conversation she made it very clear I'm not a priority. She can't even do a thing for me for 10 minutes, something I've been begging her to fix for over 2 years, even wishing as a birthday gift. Instead she's taking care of neighbours and putting herself into their business, being the good samaritan. She died for me right there. Now I'm trying to get my head around how you grieve someone's death who isn't actually dead.
One of the things I struggle with again and again is: when they are doing hurtful and stupid things, they do it because that's who they are. When I do it I do it consciously and it feels immature and malicious. For example, I don't want to take her calls anymore, but I hate when people are stonewalling and don't want to act the same way. But to be fair that's what I need to do to stay sane. No matter how I do it I either go against myself or I have to cope with guilt and question my standards and who I am.
Once again, you've described my life without having ever met me.
THIS IS my former spouse. Thank you for enlightening me, Dr. Ramini. This video alone explains the last 36 years of my life.
❤
You nailed!!
Thank you thank you
I need to be reminded. I have 2 vulnerable narcissists in my life 😢, it’s crazy and tiring.
I explained him clearly why I am unhappy with what parts and what needs to change if we are to stay together. Not even such an action helps! No amount of effort and affection helps, they are black holes. Avoid them completely for your own sake.
I've done the same, waste of breath.
She went from viewing me as a saviour, the only person who made her feel better - to an aloof, dismissing hatred. I was the villain, the cheater, I never 'cared for or loved her as much as she loved me'.
She'd post song lyrics online about how I was never hers to love and she'd constantly beg me for reassurance. By the end, I was the supposed narcissist, she had done the right thing by leaving me behind.
By the end I was so gaslit, apologising, guilty despite all my efforts, despite all my feelings, I was told that I never cared, I believed it, and therefore she was justified in ghosting me for a month, leaving me on a string and then vehemently stalking me for a year.
In retrospect, she wasn't half wrong, there was always a part of me that was so unsure about her, her behaviours, her constant need for pity and validation. But the end was absolutely breaking.
Great to clarify! 🎉 thank you for your work
"Malcontented", great word!
Sums them up - not content with ANYTHING in their life
Absolutely on target. My ex wife managed to isolate me, drain all of my energy and cost me pretty much everything. I'm still working on building the new "me" because the old "me" was pretty much destroyed trying to please her.
Same here brother, same here. Devalued, discarded and monkey branched after 22 years. Building the new me has been a long, slow and difficult process
Thank you for this clear explanation of how a vulnerable narcissist works. I’ve experienced the testing within my family of origin. It is extremely difficult to effectively set boundaries with these people, especially if they have a familial family flying monkey squad.
I've concluded a lot of what went on between me and my vulnerable narcissistic mom was nonverbal. There was this constant sense that I was intolerably burdensome, just by my very presence.
I am over the people pleasing, so when my mother said to me other people told her how wonderful she was for caring for my dying dad but she needed me to say it I asked her why, and didn’t say it or pander. When she accused me of abandoning her and making my life all about me I told her I had, for a change made my life about me. She was actually left with not much to say. Except to give me the long list of sacrifices she had made for her family in her life, which I also refused to be drawn into.
Yeah, I had one of these, and God, did she manipulate me. I can still remember her voice: “You don’t love me anymore!”
After I had a stroke, she went silent for a couple of years, then hit me up for money. When I didn’t respond, the “pity me” emails started. When I finally told her why I had gone no-contact, she lied about everything.
Everything Dr. Ramani says in this video is true.
Classic description of my mother... I was still enjoying spending time with her and take care of her; until I turned 50 and something finally clicked and didn't want to play her game. She has gone no contact with me for 3 weeks and my blood pressure is finally normal. I don't miss her at all!!!!! I'm just worried about her; but not that much to go back to her. I'm sure she will come back on her own.
the more I watch these kinds of videos, the more I am amazed at how accurate this is to my situation with my soon to be ex husband
You got this down solid! Now I’m a little embarrassed. I should’ve seen this from the start. I’m married to one. For years.
They take tremendous care that we NOT see this from the start. We all want to be wiser, but it's not the victim's fault.
My mother has severe childhood trauma and is a vulnerable narcissist. I realized not too long ago I was her main supply and her parent. I have long been the stand in matriarch because my mom adamantly believes now is her time (she has believed this since I was a teen- I’m 58). My mom gets supply and at the end of any celebration I host, she asks “when am I going to see you next?”. She is incapable of doing something nice even her own children. Always lining up future supply.
Thank you for "a victimized form of gaslighting"! That is exactly my relationship with my sibling... Nobody ever described it more accurately.
It's only one-sided. They have no deep involvement in your life but have a lot to say about you. Little commitment, no involvement, keeps you guessing, silent treatments, "I love you" moments and right back to square one.
So, you've met my mother. 😂
And my father, 😂👌
“You act like you can’t stand to look at me”. Well.
I cannot thank you enough. I am detaching from three decade long friendship with a vulnerable narcissist. iIt has been very difficult, and empowering at the same time. Dr Ramani you have helped me so much on this journey.
Same! I wish people spoke more about friendships with narcissists
Yes!! Unfortunately I know this behavior all too well. Funny how there’s different types of narcissism. It’s kinda scary when you think about it. They come in all different forms. I hope we all rid ourselves of these people and heal and live a life that we can be proud and happy of. ❤️🩹🙏🫂
This is spot on and yet so much more nuanced than can be expressed in a teaching video. Yet Dr. Rama you do such a good job. thank you so much. “No place to speak your truth. Ends up fanning the flames.” “Victimized form or gaslighting.” Still when I am very direct and honest doesnt hit the mark either! Ugh! Not a dance I want to engage in in my Life anymore.
Yes this was a/was me! Hits the nail on the head. I left less than two weeks ago and am still steeped in guilt. Thanks for these videos which help me remember what I’ve been suffering for so long and keep my resolve.
I look after my elderly mother daily and she is a Covert Narcissist. I thank Dr Ramani from the bottom of my heart for allowing me to see that I am not crazy! (though I am damned tired!) The insights in these videos is absolutely priceless. I have also learned a ton from Dr. Les Carter. Thank you to both of these wonderful people!
An empty pail can't hold water for long and rinse repeat, rinse reapeat. Disengage emotionally. No deep!
I think some narcs are a combination of these, using one or the other approach in different situations.
Ultimately, it's easier and almost predicatable to attract a narc when one hasn't done their own shadow work and internally come fully into their power, self-acceptance, and self-worth.
Doing this work in the aftermath takes a long time. In hindsight, we may conclude, it's better than to have lived a dillusional life like some who never had to deal with a narc and so never had the opportunity to really work on healing themselves.
How many times have I told myself, don't humor someone just because I feel sorry for them? And then last night one person I both dislike and feel pity for, someone who I have given way too many passes to, said something really messed up about the death of a loved one of mine.
I knew this person was like this. I blame myself
It's okay. You're not alone. Often, they have to go waaay over the line before the spell breaks. I've broken up with a friend for doing the exact same thing. It's the moment you realize you're not dealing with a human, and you never were.
@@malindarayallen Wise words, thank you for your kindness
You just have a good heart. Don't give it to those who don't see that.
My husband's sister made plans for me to take care of her dog while she had a knee surgery in the room where my dear husband was within a couple of weeks of dying from a brain tumor. This was after asking how much longer I thought he would live the week before. I was shocked that she could be so callous towards her brother and me. When I said I couldn't do it, she went all drama queen about not knowing how she didn't want to put her precious dog in a kennel during her knee surgery and recovery. She hadn't even contacted the surgeon yet. My sister in law was always needy, asking for money on a regular basis, always in more pain than anyone else, always had money problems or physical problems. It was exhausting having her around and when she visited us a few times a year, it seemed like she would never go home. I always felt relieved when she left after her visits. She has gone no contact after I made it clear that I could no longer be financially supportive of her after my beloved husband's death as my finances were cut due to his death.
My mother accused me that I would put a death light on her grave, and I would be in ironic mood while doing so. She is still alive to this day, mind you. I was a teenager at that time. Some people are really not quite right in their head.
OMG - THIS is my mother!
And I am a major empath.
We've always been like oil and water.
Wow, I thought I finally had a full understanding of what she is. This just drilled down in more detail.
I always admire you, Ramani! Every time I encounter a narcissist I need to literally brainwash myself with your videos so that I'd have a firm ground under my feet, and to not lose my sense of reality. AND U so beautiful!
Me too😢
Never admits to anything and always the victim. Finally a name for what he is. Vulnerable, at 64 he's gone as far as tell me and I quote. "I'm telling my mom". I almost fell over backwards.
Wow 😢. Telling his mom 😮
I think the vulnerable narcissist by far is the worst of the bunch because they blend in easier with other people. Once their supply is challenged or removed they can be quite insufferable.
Wow! This pretty much describes the last five years of my life spent in a very difficult relationship. I was always apologizing and feeling guilty for wanting to end things. I finally gathered the strength to get out of it, but it was incredibly difficult.
Great choice
Now look at the positives
You have your freedom Back
Peace
If will be difficult for a while, whilst you re Empower yourself, but it will be worth it.
Well done.
Absolutely exhausted and sick of being supply for my permanent victim daughter. She saves all her charisma for others.
My mother was a vulnerable narcissist to a tee. She used her ill health as a way to trap me into doing whatever she wanted me to do to care for her and “keep the peace” in the process. If I expressed any concern about her behavior I was told “I am your mother. You owe me for giving birth to you and providing for you”. Don’t you care about me?”
My mother withdrew love and became very passive aggressive, leaving me trying to mind read. Her and my father (he actually said it at 10 yews old), that I was the reason she was sick. She just went silent and insinuated it. The galling part is they made me sick and now I am very ill she has been invalidating, brush and he has name called and raged.
He was more poor me in the way of fishing for constant compliments... "Everything's better with Dale here, right? Life's more fun with Dale here, right?" referring to himself in 3rd person for whatever. If I didn't respond etc .. he'd get mad and go pout. Or if he actually did something around the house or yard "Did you see what I did!? Did you see it!? Can I get an atta boy!?" Like a little kid and he's 58... I'd be like - Wow, great job, you did the dishes or put his own clothes away etc... 🤦♀️😵💫
Wow what a big boy congrats 👏 haha these people 😅
@@nyxcole9879 Right!? Dear lord...
My mother flip flops between the two. Extrovert and vulnerable narcissist. I've gone no contact and after the initial grief, battling the internal guilt, I've finally gotten to the absolute best I've ever felt!
in my experience, the vulnerable covert narc would violate my boundaries and look for signs and forgiveness that it was ok, and if it wasn't? I'd get the silent treatment, phony apologies, and them later on trying to resume the relationship as if what they had done is ok, and the issue of my boundaries is a "disagreement" not a violation. and if I refused to go along with this, I'd get silent treatment and them accusing me of piling on them when they already hate themselves. so, the manipulation wasn't just about their self worth but it was also about them seeking permission to violate boundaries and be forgiven/absolved as if that indicated their worth and was something they're entitled to if they're going to stick around
It took me so long to get out, but I did. It’s hard not to be disgusted with myself when I hear this.
@katmeyster Getting out is your victory. Gaining knowledge is your power. It helped you to move forward to having a better life!❤
Wow, this is a description of my mother... You put into words what i couldn't explain, thank you. My mother is really nice to other people (including my sister), so almost nobody else sees this behaviour from her. My father knows but he adores her. Haven't seen or spoken to her since march '24 because she went insane when i told her i just wanted to live my life, like my sister is doing.
This is so true of my mother.
It has taken three "parting of the ways" (no contact) to finally know this is the final and successful break.
It's been almost 12 months since the final "no contact" and I've finally had time to recover and heal.
For anyone in the same boat - hang in there. Be kind to yourself. This is hard. The patterns hold so much pull.
The death of my father pulled me back into contact after 9 years of peace. 18 months of treading the trauma bonds again sent me into burnout, so back to therapy and finally, the line in the sand was drawn for the final time.
This stuff is SO tricky. The guilt feels like it's engraved on our bones.
The letter that claimed the final "great divide" left me shaking with trauma. But push through. Your peace of mind is worth it. And it's never too late to leave your family trauma patterns.
Almost a year of peace later, I am stronger and wiser than ever.
My two pennith is - always be kind to yourself. Even when you dip a toe back in the emotional quicksand when you end up in guilt (like with the death of the enabler parent).
Your emotional wellbeing is on the line.
Be kind and patient with yourself.
The peace of mind is priceless so if it takes a few goes to establish no contact, that's OK
Thanks!
When married I had no idea what I was dealing with, I now understand that the ex was a malignant covert narcissist.
He even tried to kill me.
Run from these monsters as fast as you can!
Dr Ramani, thank you for giving me the knowledge to know what I've been married to. But most importantly the COURAGE, to tell my N wife of 25 years with her denying the countless affairs in the last few years - that I just discovered THIS year btw - that I am DONE. It's been 9 months of hell since I found out, and seeing her act like nothing is going on while I'm in such mental and emotional pain is beyond description. So...Tomorrow is the day I tell her we either go uncontested or contested divorce. Yes, I'm nervous for some reason, but at 55 yrs old, I don't want to live the rest of my life this way.
It sucks right now, but when you're free you'll feel like you have a whole new life.
I’ve known about this behaviour for all of my life because of my mother and other friends that I made that I obviously attracted because of what I now see as abuse. I didn’t see it as abuse at the time because I always associated abuse with physical sexual and neglect. It’s very difficult to prove mental abuse and people don’t believe you.
Watching your videos has helped me understand exactly what narcissism is and I think my mother and a former friend of mine fit into this vulnerable narcissism category. Outwardly they appear outgoing and extrovert in front of loads of people but when I was alone with them they acted completely different and when I tried to explain this to others, I wasn’t believed either.
Thank you for all the work that you have done to shine a light on narcissism and the effects this behaviour has on people and their lives
I got the “you don’t like anyone” and “everyone likes me” and nobody likes you.” I almost always feeling bad that I let myself get frustrated with his selfishness and passive aggressive anger.
Me trying to be the mommy to soothe his hurts. Me trying to keep the relationship together. He thrived on saying “no” or “maybe” or “put it on the calendar” when I suggested activities we could try together. He rarely, maybe never once we were married, offered activity suggestions and when he reluctantly did join me in an activity he was sullen and morose. So I’d search for a new activity. Endless loop. A thirty year nightmare. When he discarded me, he told me that I “pushed him away.” Good grief what a messed up dude.
Sounds exactly like my marriage. My ex said the same thing, You pushed me away.
@@yvonneb-t3d Projection. It’s there superpower.
Was married for 10 years to a narcissist of this type. History of depression & addiction. SO glad to have gotten out, although (like clockwork) every time I feel free of this person, they pop back into my life.
(Father is a stereotypical grandiose type narcissist.)
I was friends with a vulnerable narcissist for a long time. I was always there for her, I was trying to be a good friend. I did everything she wanted and it still wasn't enough. You're exactly right about the small pokes. That friendship was death by 1000 papercuts. I was so much less stressed after I stopped talking to her.
I hadn't spoken to her in about 5 years and she messaged a mutual friend that she was mad I haven't liked any of her Facebook posts about her new baby. It's wild that she still wants me for supply even though I haven't been part of her life in years.
My granddaughter calls my narc a man child 😂 bless her heart
😂 love it
Be careful! Passive aggression can turn into violent aggression if their sense of loss of control gets strong enough
Thank you this is very validating for me as he didn't quite fit the other behaviours of narcissism
Hits home. I'm so tired. 😢
💕💕
This was very helpful, as have been all your videos on vulnerable narcissism, the condition that my soon to be ex-husband presents. His m.o. was to intentionally mischaracterize what I had said as a criticism when it was exactly the opposite -- my "Oh that paralegal course you're considering looks cool" became" you're not smart enough to be a lawyer". That sort of thing, which made me INSANE -- it was so cruel to me, to have my words twisted. And I kept going back trying to fix his interpretation, which was of course throwing pennies down a well. I was hooked until my lightbulb moment when my sister said "He doesn't actually think that. He says that because it makes you engage." The minute I saw his actions as truly manipulative the scales fell from my eyes, I started to recognize all of the many, subtle manipulations he had practiced on me for 10 years, and I was set free.
omg you've described my ex! I appreciate all your videos soooo much, because it validates my feelings to know I'm not crazy. I did this back and forth.. anger, feeling bad, pity, reassurance, and repeat. Please know that you've helped me to get out of this relationship and start to heal. I bought both of your books, like the videos, and subscribed to the channel as my way of showing appreciation.
This has also helped me to learn about my mother, the self-righteous covert narcissist. It's like I woke up and radical acceptance has stopped me from trying to please her because she's always right and has to criticise me no matter what I do, so now I've limited my interaction with her and my life has been less anxious. Thanks again Dr. Ramani!! ❤😊
Tapping out from these conversations always works best for me. Phrases like, "I'm not sure I can give you the answer you want" tend to work well for me. And just avoiding the conversation and refocusing too. It's such a short distance from "they don't deserve my truth" to "what's the point of talking about it?" My time and energy is better spent in other relationships.