How to change Motorcycle Fork OIl ( Using a Fork Oil level Gauge) !
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- Two great tools to make changing fork oil a breeze..Links Below :-
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From the installation instructions on the Progressive Spring website.
"Install your new fork springs into the forks. Mechanically, it
makes no difference which way the springs are installed.
Some manuals will state; install the spring with the close
wound end towards the bottom. This is done because
sometimes there will be less spring noise. The springs will
perform exactly the same regardless of which direction they
are placed".
"A'har, tight coils to the top me hearties, means less low-sprung mass leapin' around below."
(Despite a West Country accent & right-way up leg, Long John was a demon on the dance floor)
& having sold all his furniture, he now felt he had plenty of room to talk. Have a great week! : )xx
Thank you, as always, for being the lyrical gangsta!
Thank you for your latest videos. You gave me the confidence, to reseal my master cylinder and my blue dot front brakes. It took me longer to prime the master cylinder and the hoses and brake callipers. Than doing the seals. I went back through your old videos and found how to do it but still took me an age. Thank you again.
Thanks mate, appreciate your feedback and glad the videos could help you out, I bet it feels good to get it done!
@@Moonfleet41 only one thing needed. Discount code for wemoto. New seals and pistons kit not cheap.
That's a great tool to have pal,make that job easy
You got that right mate, well worth the investment!
Del, just undertaken this task on my GL1500. Purchased a fork oil level tube similar to the one in the video. Set the tool to 194mm for the 95 and up Goldwings (my Wing is 2000, one of the last of the 1500’s) this dimension is with the fork fully collapsed and no fork spring, just as the Yamaha you are working on. Very straightforward and relatively easy maintenance task. I actually did not use a vice to hold the fork leg. I used a couple of tie wraps to hold the fork leg again the metal leg of my workbench. I used a small spirit level to ensure the was perfectly plum in both planes and then overfilled the leg and sucked out the excess fork oil. I initially used 10 weight fork oil but I may change this to 15 weight as I think the forks feel just a bit too soft for my liking. Next big job on my Wing is to remove the carburettor as I think I have a leak in one of the vacuum hoses. The bike has the dreaded ‘surge’ when idling, lots of info on-line about this issue.
Sounds like a text book procedure there mate, good work, and I guess the only good news on the carbs is that on the GL1500 you just have the two of them, unlike the Valkerie where you have 6 of the buggers to deal with! Have fun and enjoy the bike.
And if you think it is a bit hard next time you can do a ratio of both fluids and get a number in between.
Some racers would put 10 in one leg and 15 in the other.
Just did both my GSX-R 750 and Vulcan 800 forks a few months ago, huge change in ride quality.
That's funny because I was thinking about the spare set of fj12 forks, yokes, and front wheel.
Contemplating whether to swap this set up with the cx500 trikes front end.
Then, I thought about buying a brand new oil suction pump to suck my old fluid out of the car's automatic gearbox fluid out and replace it with new.
Would imagine it hasn't been changed since the car was new in 1997!
Great video, Del and Penny. Keep em coming.
Hi Marc, I first used one of these pumps to change the oil on my Astra van, because the oil filter was at the top of the engine, but the drain plug was practically impossible to get to without taking all the under shields off below the engine... this meant an oil change could be done in 20mins, at home on the driveway! You can suck the oil out on a car engine through the dipstick tube... you do get some strange looks, but it does work! Same if you overfill your bike, you can slip that tube down in to the clutch case and suck a bit out without disturbing the sump plug!
I don't think that it actually matters whether the tighter coils of the spring are at the top, or the bottom. The progressive rate spring will compress the same way regardless of its orientation.
It will indeed, I think the differences of opinion are for other reasons, undersprung weight once they lock together, weight of the linear springs being on top bearing down on them, but in all these cases, it can only ever be minimal differences...
Hi Penny and Del - another great video. Thanks again for explaining things in a way that anyone who cares to learn can understand. This is a job I haven't attempted yet but with two bikes, the newest of which is years old, I really should get around to it! Take care, dear friends. Be well and ride safe!
Our pleasure as always sirt.. it's an honour to be able ot help out and expand your pride of ownership, because taking care of your own bikes is way more fun than just riding them..! Take care and be safe too.. D&Pxx
very good video del. This is the kind of thing that no one knows how to do unless they are shown. So glad guys like you can teach everyone
Thank you, really appreciate your kind feedback!
Smaller pitch up, like you did. Why? Because the service manual tells you so.
Why didn't you disassemble the damper rod? It took me a lot of time to get the sludge out of it with brake cleaner. Some holes were almost completely blocked 😮
The principle is that in service oil changing you don't strip the forks, owner's wouldn't pay the dealership for this, it's 3x the price so they don't do it... this is a simple oil change that anyonce can do and as you heard from the suction tube, I got all the oil out... it's to help the less experienced do at least something, rather than nothing... but you're right, if in doubt and you are able, then strip them out!
@@Moonfleet41
Hey, l never personally changed fork oil, but your vids on it, tips n tricks, and others msgs, l think l'll have a go. So thank you and the others for the tips and encouragement.
Great video! Can´t imagine Archimedes rolling in his grave when people take the time to get the proper oil level in the bar and then add progressive springs with the tight coils facing down.
Saludos desde México!
Just did my forks, I overfilled, and used my brake extractor tool… what you showed… nice to have. Ordered one. Didn't know they existed. 4-6 more pair of forks to go!!
Good going Sir, sounds like you're underway with the winter round of servicing!
@@Moonfleet41… you got that right!! Making my job easier.
It doesn't matter which way around the springs go. The lesser wound coils will always compress first, whether they are on the top or bottom.
Quite right mate, it is the notion that if at the top they don't have the weight of the rest of the spring pressing down on them causing pre-loading, but I imagine that's marginal at best.
Progressive fork springs, makes no difference to my mind. The forces are identical at each end of the fork. I suppose you could say the springs are heavier at the tight wound end so keep that low in the bike to help lower centre of gravity. But that's minimal
That's an interesting viewpoint mate, and perfectly logical, and like you say I think all the difference are minimal!
In the area where the spring is tight it is also heavier. So the only difference is where the weight is. And now the question is what interests you, lowering or raising the center of gravity, or lowering or raising the mass that reacts to inertia and affects the nature of the shock absorber. Either way, in my opinion and my understanding it is negligible. Those who are looking to improve the performance of the shock absorber, especially with an upside shock absorber, then there the lighter moving mass, i.e. the tight area at the top, is preferable.
Exactly.. with the tight coils bottom, they lock under compressiion first.. then become unsprung weight... on top, even when locked down, they remain sprung weight... like you said, negligable unless you're tuning an MotoGP bike..!
In the good old days forward thinking considerate manufacturers used to fit drain plugs in the bottom of forks. It made oil changes so much easier & quicker, and it can’t have made the forks much more expensive to make. Was it really “progress” to give up on this, along with grease nipples on rear shock links, swinging arm bearings etc.?
I completlely agree mate.. grease nippled on the steering head, swing arm pivot, and fork drain plugs... one of the things i offer as reason when people criticise Harley Davidson... because they are the last manufacturer still doing it..!
Daaaannng.... Another tool I never knew existed.... First the Chain Aligner (is that a word :shrugs) and now the fork oil gauge..... AND then on top of that the clutch cable fluid remover..... Now I might be game to do forks with this setup and not feel like I have to take them to the shop....
Go for it mate, doing your own maintenance broadens the pride of ownership way better than just riding! Happy miles, must be coming in to summer there, enjoy the sunshine!
Got a laugh from today's white board message. Appreciate the step by step procedure for the fork oil change and also the info on the tools. The fluid extractor is a nice convenient size for the job. Pieces of old inner tubes have lots of uses around the shop don't they. Thank you both for all the time and talent you put into your videos. Cheers ! ❤👍👍
Sure thing Rick, I never throw an inner tube away, like you say, a million uses! Thanks for watching as always, have a great week, D&Px
Not that it would make any difference but being the pedant that I am, I would have to put a spirit level on the side of the fork tube to make make sure it was perpendicular. Also given that there will still be a little sludge residue remaining in the forks, is there a fluid that could be used to flush it out? As for the springs, tight coils at the top possibly means less weight to move as the forks move up and down.
Good video though, I shall be doing mine before the winter lay up and will probably buy one of those vacuum pumps, …good advice …as usual.👍
One other opinion on the spring is that if the tight coils are lower, they lock up under compression first and then become "unsrung" weight... only minimal, but relavant to some..!
Most of the things I've seen about progressive rate springs say it doesn't matter. Either way they will compress the same
hyper pro fork spings says . tight curls at the top.
So I believe!
You know I don't work on bikes, I work on and build guitars/basses. But the worlds have crossed. Let me explain... I was working on a build with my grandson. And when trying to build something that's in your brain, the right tool might not be available. I looked at him and said, "Like my friend, Del always says... need a tool, make a tool." Also, we save everything. Never know when that spare part or washer or screw or whatever will save you time, money and sanity!
I totally agree, but there is a down side to saving things for when you may need them.. you slowly build up a scrap yard for stuff you'll probably never use, half your working space gets taken up by it.. and you for ever fear throwing a single thing out because you ansolutly KNOW you will need it the following day...lol!
Hi Del, tight coils at the top or bottom, no idea, never installed them so don`t know, but have seen video`s where George Milburn from TEC Bikeparts has installed them, and said which way to install them, so i would very likely do them the way the supplier recommends. One question, you did`nt wash out the sludge residue from the legs, did you just not show it, or dis there a reason you did`nt do it?.
Sure did mate, just a rinse out with degreaser to grab any sticky stuff!
Some good equipment there Del to make an awkward job easy. Saved this one for future use 👍
Good plan mate, glad it can help.. thanks as always for your support.
Hi, Regarding coils right side up - I think it does not matter at all. Can be even mixed up.
Always a good watch, but hang on a minute...after knocking up the fork oil syringe thingy tool, you used the pin end of a Vernier gauge as a dip stick? A dip stick is therefore all that is needed. Also not sure about the effectiveness of the narrow clutch cable sucking out years of missed-maintainance. Although cracking idea for diligent maintenance.
You're right, I was just double checking, the benefit of the tool is not having to tip the excess out and guess if it's enough and end up faffing about over and under till you get it bang on.. at least that's the theory aye lol
Usual good content ✌️
Fork springs......blimey, I'd either follow the manufacturers instructions or check my workshop manual 🧐
Greetings from sunny Southern California. This is so timely for me. I have to do this exact job on my Yamaha Super Tenere tomorrow, with the added service of new seals and bushings. The T12's forks, of course, are upside-down, so I will be checking out your other video. Thank you so much for posting such detailed videos. Watching your videos has given me the confidence to tackle jobs that I would have taken to the dealer in the past. One question: My service manual states that any time the top fork cap is removed the o-ring must be replaced. Your thoughts?
Thanks mate, we're really glad the videos can help, and good luck tomorrow! Regarding o-rings, if they are in fine condition and free from any nicks or tears, then they should be ok to use a second time, but of course, it's never 'wrong' to replace them if you prefer to!
Hi Del,
Great video. On the spring subject, do you get a finer adjustment when you flip the springs? I noticed you didn’t adjust the tension all the way down like it was when you took the cap off. You will fine tune it when you start riding it?
Yes exactly, I set all suspension adjustments to the centre and then can adjust up, or down, accordingly once ridden! And as regards to the spring, the debate is more related to the fine coils work better at the top as they don't have the weight of the rest of the spring pushing them down, they're free to work unencumbered, so yes, in theory, you should get a finer performance from those fine coils if they're at the top!
Thanks for sharing this video, Del, great to replace that very tired nasty oil. ;) And on the springs, as I'm sure many here have already written, it just doesn't matter. It's going to compress/function exactly the same, regardless. Will it be more spring noise one way vs. the other? For my old ears anymore, I"m sure I'd have no idea on that. :)
I think you're right, it harldy matter on road bike TBH, the tiny fractional differences it makes would hardly be noticed by the average guy loaded up with his packed lunch off on the work commute..lol!
Del, is it best practice to remove the forks to replace the oil? To my knowledge mine has never been changed, so this is something I really do. Thanks as always!
Not totally essential, I've changed oil without removing the forks or front wheel before, you'll just need to make sure the legs can be collapsed all the way up without the wheel hitting the faring or any other bodywork, or you can't measure the air gap.
Hello Del 'n' Pen.
Another good vid.
The tight springs at the bottom affects the level of oil (air gap) more than if they're at the top due to more metal in the oil. Not sure if a mere mortal would notice when riding though but I always go for @ the top.
Hi Hughie, hreat to hear from you as always, good point well made on the oil level, not sure how much difference it would make, I guess it's whether a few mm is critical, the biggest point of the debate seems to be about how the weight of the wide coils on top pressing down on the softer coils, taking away some of the travel, again, I can imagine there are only mm's in it! Perhaps releveant on a race bike, but maybe not on a big ol' horse like this! Keep safe there, D&Px
I’d put the fork springs the way you did because you did it that way. Nuff said.
Bless you mate, there is reasoning behind it, which is supported by compnies like Hyper Pro, thank you for your kind faith.
This is a job I have to tackle next so spot on, I will be referring to this when I do mine, need to buy a decent vice though 😂
You absolutely don't need a big vice, you only hold it with hand pressure at most, or you will squash the tube, just some way of holding them upright is all you need... I've even duct taped them to the bench in a pinch!
Ahhh wake up to a Del video ✌🏼. Question: when you put the fork back into the triple clamp is there a lip to prevent it from being pushed further up? Or do you just push it proud a couple of millimetres? Cheers Mukka 🍻🫡
Normally not, pretty much all forks can he pushed through the top by an inch or so.. so i level them with the edge of the cap itself so it's just clear of the clamp.
Great video del one question when you remove the forks dont you have to center them like you shown in that other video you did about strait forks and love your need a tool make a tool
Hi mate, no, thankfully if your forks were centred and you didn't loosen the top nut on the top yoke, they should stay aligned if you haven't had the yokes out... once you put one fork leg in up through the yokes, then tighten them both and with the top nut loose, they should centre themsleves on that one leg, as both top and bottom holes are machined dead straight... however, once you rebuild everything, you can always carry out the alignment plunge if you're worried, or if it feels a little cock eyed when you ride it!
@Moonfleet41 o I see so if you undo the top nut your more likely to need to do the alignment job cheers del and ofcourse penny
hey Dell, greetings from greece, i recently change me old front springs on my cbf with hyperpro street box and i have a debate with them on which side goes the tight curl of springs,honda on service manual says tight curl up and hyperpro down....... well i listen to hyperpro....lol
Nice one mate, you may see lower in the comments someone quoted that Hyper Pro suggest upwards and I imagine it varies from bike to bike, as you can see, it's a hearty debate!
I always find if i leave the springs out i get far better handling, i disappear into the distance at most track days. 😅😅😅😅 I am only kidding, the only place you going is nowhere quick. Tight coils top or bottom, i will just go with what Dell says. Am fine with that. 👍👍👍😎😎😎
Thanks mate, appreciate the support!
2 years haha my bike seems to need new fork seals on a yearly basis I will have to have. Word with the old girl. £250 a year one fork rebuilds. This project looks to be going well is that budget looking healthy 👍🏻👍🏻
Blimey mate, forsk seals every year! Sounds like time for some gaitors, there must be something splitting those deals... and yes mate, well within budget at the moment due to no nasty surprises yet!
Are the fork tubes pitted and damaging the oil seals ?
I don’t disagree that this works and is exactly what shops charge for with a standard fork oil change but my OCD would never let me do the job without a full clean and strip. 😂
I’m not smart enough to present a convincing argument on the spring orientation other than to say I follow the manual blindly in this respect 😊
I get what you're saying and agree if you can do it yourself, but I'm sure most people wouldn't pay a technician to do a full strip in relation to a simple oil change as laid out in the service schedule, am sure you'll agree.... And with the coil orientation, are you aware of the actual debate itself, and what each side of the argument is?
@@Moonfleet41 not at all. 😇
Great video as always Del
I've always thought the tight coils go up because when collapsed they don't act as a spring anymore so if they were at the bottom it would become unsprung mass
Quite right mate, that's how I understand it too!
Logic dictates that the spring should be installed with the most downward deflection for a more progressive suspension; the opposite is not possible in my opinion, since compression is reduced to a minimum on the other part of the spring.
Del will you be doing oil filter conversion kit on xjr
It's already been done mate, had to buy the spin on filter for it rather than the element as usual... but i will be changing the ol and filter, so will show it and talk about it to give it the right exposure..
The rebound would be more responsive in my eyes looking at the other end of the spring.
Softer on the rough roads we have to cope with
Thanks mate, interesting point!
HI Del and Penny thanks for the reminder i need to do mine lol
one question can/should we do it to the rear shocks too? if so how ?
Love it Del. As for your question. Should the tightly wound coil end of the spring be at the top or the bottom. I am not an expert, but I know a man who is. I followed your video on fork rebuild for a Harley. I rebuilt my 2008 Fat Bob front shocks watching your video. When I took the springs out the were tightly wound coils down. On your advice I flipped them, tight wound coils at the top. Here In Canada the riding season is just over. I put just over 11 K on the bike since the fork rebuild. It was like a different bike. The ride was amazing soaking up the bumps, and good controlled return after full down on the forks. The forks were serviced just before I bought the bike in 2022. You wanted a qualified reason why I agree tightly wound coils up. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Sure thing mate, there is a definite physical benefit to having them right way up, less weight on top of them, the tight coils move first before the wider coils, and if the wider coils are bearing down on them it slows down the movement, so reduces the sensitivity of the ride... Glad it worked for you, hope it's not too cold over there yet, we hardly ever see snow these days in England and am sure, as we're always told, it's due to all us nasty people having exhausts warming the earth up, nothing to do with power stations and aircraft burning fuel by the ton when all the vegans want to go on holiday, don't get me started lol
Would rather debate on which tyre is better,good video Del and interesting.
I assemble the forks the way the workshop manual says. If you going to keep the bike buy a manual or download from the Internet.
Ha Ha Del, I spotted you had turned the sping over before the end of the video and already had my Haynes manual out to check which way is correct. 🤷♂️
Quality as always, best day when you drop a new video
Thanks mate, I appreciate that!
I watched somebody grilling a steak on a Live last night and really wished that we had Smell-a-Vision.... Seeing this old fork oil video today, I thank my lucky stars that Smell-A-Vision is only a fantasy... That stink should be against the Geneva Convention!
There speaks the voice of a nose who's sniffed it in person!
Another great video Del..
Excellent job..
BG.
Thanks mate. Glad you enjoyed it!
With you there on that quote as well Del.
Great video Del 😊 some would say, tight springs to bottom, and others to the top, what do I know 😅
Del! Great to see you, mate!
Smart tools you have done😇😉👌and as usual you make it so easy to understand all of it, thank's for that to👏
Most welcome!
Del “aka Monkey Boy” as usual those simple skills videos are always great… Hopefully one day when the lovely Ms PP isn’t so busy she’ll grace us with a cameo appearance. Cheers and Up the Chels.
Thanks mate, she's always here other side of the camera and really appreciate your kind support!
Thankful there is no smell-o-vision , as i imagine that old fluid was rancid!
Yes it sure was mate, I think a cross between rotten eggs and socks lol
greetings from Indonesia 🇮🇩
Welcome to the Channel, thanks for watching!
Good vid!
To answer your question...
There are 2 reasons to place the tight curl top and NOT bottom. Here is a quick and dirty explaination:
1. Unsprung weight: The spring itself would have more unsprung weight in case the tight curl is placed on the bottom as the entire spring would be in maximum motion. If the tight curl is at the top however then much less spring mass is in motion since the tight curl section is going to move/compress less than the untight curl section.
2. Eigen frequency or resonant frequency. The spring itself has a resonant frequency. It bounces up and down at that frequency with each bump in the road. If the curl is on bottom then all of the spring is in motion, the frequency is lower and amplitude is higher. If the tight curl is on top then the the frequency is higher and amplitude is lower.
Again another great video.
Thank you so much mate, what a wonderful and scientific explanation, we can't argue with that!
Thanks for your explanations 👍
Dell you put the spring upside down when you took the spring out the tight coiles was at the bottom should of waited till the end sorry dell
Most welcome mate, it was deliberate and am sure you're aware it is a popular debate!
😎👍
Good skills Del. Will most definitely be doing a strip down with probably new seals on mine over the winter. No history of when it was last done and as its half way there, may as well do new seals.
Good plan mate, if in doubt, clean it out!