My ego is still hurt... | Learning Finnish with Duolingo
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Hey there! ❤️ I'm making a different video this week and I hope you guys find it fun! They've just released the finnish language for duolingo, and we're trying it together today! I'm starting with the placement test!
I know that this is not related to music, but I thought this video could be fun as we are pretty much all feeling some attachment to Nightwish homeland here 😉 Let me know if you want to see more episodes!
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3:23 Technically "Kuka on tuo" is the same as "Kuka tuo on".
Order of words in Finnish is not that important (most of the time), but sometimes things just sound bit clumsy.
haha i use "kuka on tuo"
"Kuka tuo on" is a sentence in itself but "kuka on tuo" needs something more, like if there's a group of people and only one man wearing a red shirt, you may ask "kuka on tuo punapaitainen mies"
DummyBunny Not really.
"Kuka on tuo punapaitainen mies" is still same as "Kuka tuo punapaitainen mies on".
@@XtreeM_FaiL but the difference is that " kuka tuo on" works on it's own and "kuka on tuo" sounds like a) it should be placed in a poem b) it's the first half of a sentence
DummyBunny True, but both are still right.
Kuka tuo on. This is the best variant. Works everytime.
Kuka on tuo. Not as good as the top one, but the difference is so minor that you can ignore it.
Tuo on kuka. This work best when you a confused etc. Like "Tuo on... kuka!?
Tuo kuka on.
On kuka tuo.
On tuo kuka.
These last two are correct too.
No reasons to use them ever.
I'm finnish. In my opinion your 'koirat etsivät lelua' was correct. You are correct, we do not specify if they are looking for specific toy or just a toy. You could deduce that from context, but in this there was none.
EDIT: If it was 'koirat etsivät leluaan' you would know dogs are looking for specific toy that they have.
Yess! Thanks for confirming my suspicious! I felt a bit betrayed!
Technically either one works but it kinda makes a bit more sense that the dogs are looking for specific toy (e.g. one that they have lost somehow) as opposed to looking for a toy in general, which kinda implies that the dogs have a common intrinsic goal to obtain a toy in life, which they probably don't have :D
It is true finnish language doesn't have "the" article, but in finnish you can specify by saying "that" which is "se" or "sitä" etc.
For example the the first book ("the New Testament") written in Finnish from 1548 was named "Se Wsi (Uusi) Testamenti". Nowadays it is only named as "Uusi Testamentti".
@@argieStream Out of context "a toy" makes a lot more sense. There is no way anyone reading that sentence could know it's a specific toy. If someone told me that I'd think they are searching for any toy that they could get in their mouth. And dogs truly do have that tendency. I have dogs.
In a sense both are incorrect. If it matters, but the context doesn't tell you which it is, one should specify it using some other structure. That's just a basic rule of communication. The logic about the partitive is incorrect though, since in this case it signifies that the action is incomplete, i.e. the dogs didn't find a/the toy yet.
Yea it seems pretty unfair since there isn't really a way to tell if it's a definite or indefinite word, especially in an exercise like this. No articles nor suffixes to indicate it's a specific one :/
YES! Thanks!!! 😎
"The dogs are looking for a toy" should have been correct for sure. You need context to know whether it's definite or indefinite.
👍 Agreed from Finland 🇫🇮!
"Missä on vesi" and "Missä vesi on" I think both should be accepted.
"Missä on vesi" is grammatically wrong and sounds a bit clumsy but it doesn't really matter because everyone can still understand that just as well as "Missä vesi on".
In spoken finnish id rather say ”mis on vesi?” I think maybe cause it ”flows” better. Not to correct but to point out the difference in grammar and spoken versions
@@rwyayy3664se sanotaan et "mis o vesi"
Ainaki niin mä sanon
It does matter a little. If I said "missä vesi on" with a certain intonation, it could be a declaration instead of a question. But if you pose it as a question, everyone will understand.
A similar example:
Missä miehet ratsastaa (Where the men ride)
Siellä lampaat ei voi laiduntaa (Sheep cannot pasture)
"Missä miehet ratsastaa" could be a question, but from the second verse of the song, you deduce it's not (if you didn't catch it from the tone of the first verse already)
Toi on itessään kyllä niin typerä lause että ei mitään rajaa. Kuka kysyy "Missä vesi on" ellei 'vesi' ole nimi. "Mistä vettä saa" ois kyllä aika paljon fiksumpi.
In the future i will write all my comments in Finnish.😅
I can try reading them in Finnish hehe!
@@ElvannReacts Sisu Perkele!
Congratulations, your Finnish is already quite good 👍funny how you react to the two tiny mistakes you made. No worries, this was a nice video 😍
Or Swedish ...
@@ralfhaggstrom9862 I've often wondered why no one in Nightwish speaks Swedish with Floor (since she's fluent)
Holy s... your pronunciation is good! I mean REALLY good! And you did great otherwise too.
Oh, and you're correct about those "the" situations. There was no way to tell if it was a certain toy or not (other than why would those dogs look for a random toy for example, but then again a stick is a toy if you ask them =D ).
Oh thanks! 🥰🥰🥰 I try my best for the pronounciation! As a singer I reaaally pay attention to details in that regard! ❤️ And thanks for the confirmation I was right there!!!
Two dogs searching for "a" (any) toy doesn't make sense. In order for them to know to search for it, it must be a known item - therefore "the".
@@Silvar55x Well, dogs are proven to be a lot smarter than we have thought (saw a documentary a couple of weeks ago), so one COULD think that they are consciously looking for any toy because they want to play. And if one goes and asks their dog to go find a toy, they will go and find one (if they know how to play it), there are videos in YT where dogs bring whatever thing they find if they're not sure what they were asked to bring. So grammar wise it's not completely wrong to say so when the sentence is alone without any context.
I'm Finnish but even i can't get full points. Finnish language has so many different word orders.
Examples: mikä toi on? Onks toi mikä? Mikä on toi?
All of these are fluent Finnish. :D
Edit: and that's why Finnish is somethimes very hard to me. The fluent speaker. :D
I've taken a few courses in linguistics in my off-time and one thing I consistently hear in those courses is Finnish is a hell language to learn as a foreigner.
Mun äikkä on 10
onhan suomenkieli kolmanneks vaikein kieli xd
@@poppi69420 mulla äikkä oli 5lk 9. Mut en enää varmaa sais ysiä ku koulut on käyty jo monta vuotta sitte. :D
I wouldn't say all of the examples are exactly fluent, although sure, you can use any of them.
I agree with you on the Koirat etsivät lelua. It’s obviously more vague in meaning. If Finns were talking about a specific toy they’d say something like ”Koirat etsivät leluaan” (their dog) or even ”sitä lelua”. And if we’re meaning that the dogs were looking for AND found the toy it’d be ”Koirat etsivät lelun(sa)”. Duolingo messed this one up. Great video btw!
Duolingo releases Finish Courses
*Every Nightwish fan:*
Exactly.
"The dogs are looking for a toy" is exactly how I would've done it. I can't think of any context where that sounds like "the toy". "Koirat etsivät leluaan" or "Koirat etsivät sitä lelua" would've made it more explicit, but as you said, that's how the language is. Source: I'm a native Finnish speaker. Enjoy learning!
You speak Finnish very well 😯😍😍
Awwnn thank youuuu I try!! It's just really hard, but I can usually get by at the restaurant without having waiters change for english! ^.^
Technically, "kuka on tuo"(and also "missä on vesi") is not wrong. It can be used in certain situations and has a different nuance, but "Kuka tuo on" is indeed the natural way of asking "who is that"
Not sure why "koirat etsivät lelua" is wrong since your logic is sound. The sentence is indeed nonspecific and could be translated as "a" or "the". Since Finnish doesn't have articles these kinda sentences can be tricky without context. I suppose the idea is that you wouldn't really say a sentence like "the dogs are looking for a (random) toy" and that they are looking for a specific toy is just much more logical. For example "vakava suomalainen mies..." could be "a serious man...", again depends on the context.
Sentence structure and context is what makes the Finnish "a" or "the" :D
example:
Ulkona on auto -> There is a car outside
Auto on ulkona -> The car is outside
I checked with my husband who was sitting right next - which I cut out- and he was really unsure if it was actually usable or not. But I can see how much better doing the inversion sounds, I'll try to not forget it again by mistake!🤣
@@ElvannReacts The "Kuka on tuo" version is kind of poetic or lyrical, but still correct.
Hello from Canada! 😊 I actually "Finnished" (sorry, couldn't resist) the whole course this morning. 😅 I've already been studying Finnish for a few years with FinnishPod101, so I used Duolingo to challenge myself. Overall I'd say it's good, but it does have a few bugs. My main issue is that it seems extremely picky with word order/choice when translating into English (meaning that if there are multiple ways to say whatever it is in English, it will only accept one of them. None of the other courses I have on Duolingo are like that.). I definitely flipped off my computer a few times when the course didn't allow certain answers.
That tends to be the issue with all new Duolingo additions. Reporting them to get them added to the accepted asnwers helps over time.
corinna007 Same here! I’ve tried to learn Korean but it feels like it’s just translating but not explaining. And adds random words in the sentences that you haven’t learned yet. I think that duolingo is better when you have some background knowledge about the language so you can test your skills on some words.
12:55 pala means piece but yes, aamupala, välipala and iltapala are meals. I guess they are less formal/organized meals than aamiainen and illallinen. en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/aamupala
You have good basic Finnish skills already and excellent pronounciation. Would be nice to see more these kind of videos in the future.
Thank you Jouni!! I definitely will then if you enjoyed it! It makes it all worth it!!!
This is super interesting to watch as a Finn! Like the Hilla one, I've never thought that people could see it as "Hi has something". But I guess it's obvious for fluent speakers because I don't think we have names with two letters only
hahaha yeah, well, I was sort of confused too because it also wouldn't make much sense!
A I Then it would be Hi:lla.
But then again Hi is not a name.
@@XtreeM_FaiL Ah yes you're right, I didn't even think about that.
A I Actully I am not sure.
A name Pasi would be Pasilla not Pasi:lla.
I really can't remember anymore. :)
@@XtreeM_FaiL I mean it would make sense to use : with two-letter names so it wouldn't be confusing but then again I can't think of any real life examples where I would use that :D
3:15 why is that wrong? It is perfectly understandable. I mean yes, the “Kuka tuo on?” is more used but still. Your “Kuka on tuo?” And also “Tuo kuka on?” could be used, especially in songs.
I think it's better learn that the standard Finnish word order in this case is different from the English one.
@@tubehepa Well, it is grammatically correct in standard Finnish. It's just a word order that isn't really used in every day speech, though it probably used to be in some dialects
@Help Jesus get 1000 subs without videos "kuka on tuo" oli sanajärjestys, ja sitä käytetään runoudessa ja musiikissa jatkuvasti
Jotkut käyttää nimeä kysymyksen keskellä. Kuka "nimi" on?, Missä "nimi" on? Tämäkin on oikein, mutta jotkut käyttää enemmän nimeä ruotsalaisten tavoin, esim. "Var är Peter?" "Missä on Peter?"
You do that very well! Hyvin tehty ja toivottavasti viihdyt Suomessa . I hope at you like to be here!
Awww, ihana! Kiitos paljon!! 🥰
Your Finnish pronouciation is sooo good! You really master the pronounciation value of each Finnish letter! It is usually very difficult especially for English speakers. I know some English speakers who have lived in Finland for ages, and their Finnish pronounciation and grammar skills are still quite poor compared to yours.
It is so easy to get along with English in Finland. A person who comes to Finland and doesn't know English can learn Finnish quite well in about one year, because he/she has to, to get along.
This video was fun to watch! I was looking for Nightwish reaction videos, and found this. Nice surprise!
Terveisiä täältä Kalliosta!
Thank you so much!!! ❤️ Technically, I'm a native french speaker, but I've also been really intentional about trying to learn finnish! As someone who speaks english, it is in fact really hard to get to learn the language because everyone knows english and as a foreigner you don't want to make people waste their time and energy!
"Kuka on tuo?" is actually proper Finnish, the order of the words is quite flexible in Finnish.
Well it sounds pretty off still
@@talvikko- Well yeah but grammatically you can almost put it in any order and it'll hold. The only ones that really start to be weird are 'on tuo kuka?' and 'on kuka tuo?' but the rest you can just explain away with style or poetic vibe that the writer is trying to achieve.
@@Murzac Yeah its sounds more poetic or old than wrong, now if you add dialects you get stuff like "'Kekä?" that might be way more harder to understand :D
@@talvikko-
It sounds off in spoken Finnish because it sounds poetic or something to use in a song. But still perfectly understandable.
As a native Finn since the Stone Ages, it turns out Finnish on Duolingo is pretty easy for me, so I started Chinese a week ago. I made it past the first checkpoint already, but it's still very difficult to pronounce.
Tässä - here, really close. Usually so close you could touch it
Tuolla - there, pretty close. Usually you can see and point.
Siellä - there, some where where you can't see.
Siellä means also there, by you.
siellä. siinä etc. which come from se, are mainly centered on the listener,
as opposed to täällä, tässä, tämä etc. which are centered on the speaker.
When siellä is not seen, it's still something known to the listener - the location is somehow known before: mentioned earlier or self-evident.
To be fair, I think people can talk the Finnish language fairly "badly" and still get understood by most locals. At any rate, you pronounce the words very well. It's mostly your rhythm and intonation that aren't quite there, but really your Finnish is more "correct" than in some regional dialects so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
And when in doubt, you need more alcohol. Drink as long as doubts remain, that should fix just about any problem or at least render you immune to caring.
Onnea ja menestystä! Muista olla armollinen itseäsi kohtaan, koska kukaan muu ei ole. :)
Thaaanks you!! Yes, the intonation must be kind of wrong but I guess with more speaking it eventually it'll get a bit better! 🥰 Yeahee! Thanks for your kind words!
I've used duolingo a bit myself which made this all the more fun to watch. It was really interesting to see how you as an advanced learner deal with and reason about the options when you're lacking just a little bit of vocabulary for the question. Mikä tuo on - mikä on tuo, funny you made the same mistake twice but let's be honest you simply wanted to make it sound like grandiose theater on purpose didn't you ;)
Obviously none of the mistakes made your answers not understandable. I wonder, how good is your sense of severity of mistakes you or someone else makes with grammar in particular? If you know you're making a mistake do you always know if it's the kind where you'll be understood anyway?
"Pala" indeed means "a piece". But it also functions as the the suffix (I think that's the correct word) for at least these:
- "iltapala" (evening snack, literally: "evening piece")
- "aamupala" (breakfast, literally: "morning piece"
- välipala (snack, literally "middle piece")
I just thought of something silly. If you are putting together a jigsaw puzzle ('palapeli', literally: 'piece game'), and you had a piece missing from between two others, that would also be "välipala".
Here's something you have all probably heard several times already.
'Kuusi palaa' can mean the following:
- Six pieces
- The six will burn
- Six will burn
- SIx are burning
- A six will burn (sounds nonsensical, but if a physical number six were to burn, this would be correct)
-The / a spruce returns
-The / a spruce is returning
- The / a spruce will return
- The / a spruce burns
- The / a spruce is burning
- The / a spruce will burn
- Your moon is burning
- Your moon burns
- Your moon will burn
- Your moon returns
- Your moon is returning
- Your moon will return
I think I got them all in that list..
They should accept more word orders, because Finnish rarely has just one possibility - doesn't come any example to my mind: multiple choices are the rule! They should just show in the answer, explanation, which is the most typical and neutral sentence - showing if your version was a secondary option, and that you emphasized some word. The word order rules are anyway secondary level after the basic sentences.
TIP: In a Finnish sentence, the FIRST and LAST words are the ones you EMphasize.
For example, your word order 'mistakes' (not really mistakes) didn't make your sentences wrong - they just meant you emphasized the word you put last. Like Kuka on tuo? = (No, no) Who is (...) THAT? (as opposed to some other options, maybe like you want to underline some-one not expected, or you think people don't get who you're talking about) The same with Missä on vesi? = Where's (THAT/THE) WATER?
The same with a/the. They should accept both answers in that Koirat etsivät lelua. That partitive is best translated with the verb this time, like: (The) dogs are looking for a/the toy. The incompleteness of the work is in English expressed with the verbal structure - in Finnish it's marked in the object: you could think like the object is where you concretely see the process most typically is finished, or isn't. Now, it's maybe not happening is this sentence, but if you take like eating an apple - you can see from the apple, is it eaten (for all practical purposes - which are subjective, depending on the speaker), or not.
täällä - siellä - tuolla or the basic division of the core words: tämä - se - tuo
Finnish divides the space of this & that (and here & there) to 3 dimensions, so it's not a dichotomy only, where 'I' is the only center (I + this, here etc. vs. you, it etc. + that, there)
You can remember the division by visualizing that in Finnish the LISTENER is considered EQUAL WITH the SPEAKER. So, picture the speaker in a circle, for being important, then picture the listener in another circle, being as important. Any word that has a version linked to 'me, the # 1', has a variant for 'you, # 2'. Or we & you all. If there is 'this' (tämä) - there is 'that (with you)' (se). Se means it in the basic idea, but it is extended to mean that with you in Finnish - because very often, maybe mostly, that it is under the influence of 'you'. Or so often it is, that in Finnish it has the role of 'that with you; it'. Then tuo means something not in my or your control 'that (over there)', and it needs to be pointed out: it's either visible or audible, or it's close in the direction which is pointed. Once it's known by 'you', it's referred to as it (se) - because now you know it. It's at least mentally in your possession. That's why also things which are not visible are usually referred with se, because if you know about it, it's that way in your control, as opposed to this in my or our control.
Then if you can visualize these 3, do the same with the locations täällä - siellä - tuolla: you can see from which words they were each made of. If not, I put them in the corresponding order above :)
Pala primarily means 'piece', it's used in the names of meals as an extension. Notice that they are all small meals: aamupala breakfast: Finns don't usually eat a big breakfast, because the stomach hasn't woken up yet :) You can't stuff there a steak. A full meal, like perhaps in a hotel, is called aamiainen. Iltapala, supper - it's small at home, because Finns usually eat well during lunch & dinner: there's no 'pala' version of them. If you go eating out, having a full meal for the supper, then it's called illallinen. The meal names are normally adjectives, because they came from the idea of 'daily/daytime meal' = 'dinner' - päivällinen (ateria/ruoka). Notice that a snack is välipala - 'piece between'; and if you need to eat at night, like people in night shifts, then the meal is yöpala - because at night our body tries to rest, even if we are up. So you can't stuff yourself as during lunch or dinner times: you'll normally eat a smaller meal at night, when one is needed.
PS. Lisää and liikaa are not related :) the basic forms lisä & liika just happen to resemble each other. But so do bagage et baguette...
Can you dance tango or do you dance the tango in English? Is it a tango or just tango? I do those mistakes with the articles and word order a lot.
I'm a Finn learning German through English with Duolingo, therefore I have to read aloud my answers, so I remember to put the articles into the sentences, otherwise I'll make a mistake sooner or later.
Ps. I think Duolingo exercises won't work well in Finnish. At least not yet.
Strange = outo*
Odd = outo*
Weird = outo*
*I prefer, but other words could be omituinen and kummallinen
Duolingo seems picky. Just drop the words in whatever order and the context makes it understandable. And if necessary just press the word you think is the important one. But even that's not necessary because the person you talk to, will ask if hän needs to. Just learn enough words, forget the grammar, drop the words like legos and let the others try to find out what you try to say (and they will). That's enough to manage everyday life in finnish :-)
"Missä on vesi", "missä vesi on". Basically the same thing and no one would never say it. Do you want to know where the lake is or where you can have a glass of water? or what. The question is pointless.
Hey, I'm also from Québec, learning Finnish with Duolingo. I hope to maybe move to Finland in a few years :)
I am from Lebanon 🇱🇧 and I am learning Finnish 🇫🇮
🇱🇧 💝 🇫🇮
Man the duolingo is so horrible when it comes to Finnish. So many mistakes and absurd sentences . Then again it's made by users for free and company itself gets the money from all the work people put into it.
Minulle oli yllätys, että olet ollut suomessa jo kaksi vuotta. Onko sinulla ollut esiintymisiä suomessa? terveisin ihailiasi.
*Suomessa
*ihailijasi
Anteeksi nyt jos kuulostaa vinoilulta, mutta en halua sekoittaa ulkomaalaisia suomen opiskelijoita yhtään enempää kuin on tarve :)
Where's my finnish people at? TORILLA TAVATAAN PERKELE!!!!!🇫🇮🇫🇮🇫🇮
I don't know if such a thing exists, but see if you can find Finnish talk radio. Just hearing the language used, getting a feel for the swing and bounce of it will help. Remember, the "correct" language you learn on duolingo won't be the same as the "living" spoken language used in everyday speech.
You know that there is a world of difference between the VERY correct Parisian French taught in Canadian schools to Anglo folks like me, and the REAL spoken Joual actually used.
Oh yeah, spoken language is really difficult, it's not like text books! And finnish definitely is also like that!
I watch some shows in finnish, and listen to a lot of finnish music as well since a long while. I also speak it with my husband at home a bit. Duolingo is just kind of a fun game with it and is kind of fun to play with in the context of a video 😉
Looks like the Duolingo course is quite rough at the edges. Finnish word order is quite fluid and you could for sure hear both "Missä vesi on?" and "Missä on vesi?". They have a slight difference in tone but could be used interchangeably. Also, you can find "Kuka on tuo?" in a poetic context or someone could even say that probably with a stress on *tuo* usually meaning they're seeing something strange or unexpected.
You were correct about the "Koirat etsivät lelua." They're looking for a nonspecific toy. If you'd need to specify it further you'd need to say "Koirat etsivät leluaan." -> they're looking for their toy, or "Koirat etsivät sitä lelua." -> they're looking for a previously mentioned toy.
When I used Duolingo I noticed that whenever it adds new content it relies heavily on users to report sentences that should've been correct. In this case all those "wrong word orders" should've been correct and I imagine after a month or two they will be, once they've been reported enough.
Yay for language content !
I've been learning Japanese for a couple months now so I know the struggles! :D
Finnish is a fascinating language too, I live in Sweden so it has always been there as "background noise" kind of (There are some radio and TV broadcasts here done in Finnish, but of course I can't understand a word hehe !)
that dualingo has problem of not giving proper understanding how finnish language works. for example "where is the water?" can be "missä on vesi" or "missä vesi on" both are used in casual talkin and conveys meaning of the though. It just generates problem when you are speaking with finnish ppl and someone says it otherway around the person who doesn't speak finnish might think it means something else then when it wasn't like that on the site. Both should be correct. most grammaticaly correct thing just generates problems when trying to speak casually with whom has spoken that langauge long time and uses casual way constructing sentences. languages are not persistent. Its more fluid like and has many options saying same things and changes eventually.
The word order in Finnish is pretty flexible tbh, plus the fact that spoken finnish is often much more lax than "book finnish" (kirjakieli, it's how "proper" finnish was referred to in my schools). Even with getting the word order wrong every now and then, in a conversation a finn will probably understand what you meant anyway.
Oh, and about the "Koirat etsivät lelua", honestly I would have accepted either "a toy" or "the toy" because we didn't get proper context to know if they were looking for any toy or a specific one.
It could have been "Koirat etsivät leluansa" (for their toy) to make it a specific toy.
kitos and koskettimet (Tuomas) were the first things I looked up. Then the lyrics of Oi Jouluyö. At least now I know that Finnish maan is not the same as dutch maan :)
Oi jouluyö what an amazing phrase to start learning Finnish pronunciation :D
"Missä on vesi" is perfectly normal and doesn't even sound clumsy. Should been right enough. Maybe, if said in a right tone of voice, more demanding than the suggested order because it allows putting more weight on the verb, but that'd be so tiny difference there are probably finns who can't imagine what I talk about until they hear both versions said in a certain tone. Normal tone however, you'd easily hear that in average familys dinner table and no one would bat an eye.
That's something Obelix would say after jumping into a pool of water and the water isn't there anymore. That is to say, water that should be here/there, is not and you want to know where it is.
Lisää means "more" and "add", and liikaa means "too much." So yea, probably related :D
And your finnish pronunciation is very near-perfect
I instantly clicked because I thought this video will be sooooo relatable! I've been reaching out to duolingo for a while, I studied Swedish on there and asked whether they could add Finnish and they finally did wohooo 🙌🏻 it is quite frustrating though, there are nearly no Finnish teachers out there and learning only with apps always turns to be out kinda complicated 😂 I love the Finnish language, though it is quite difficult! But it's always fun to make progress :)
According to the latest Nuclear Blast newsletter "Kalsarikännit" is the word when you stay at home and get drunk in your underwear without wanting to leave the house, too hilarious 😂
Learning languages is always an up and down! Enjoyed watching this video! I'll definitely get on duolingo now to learn some more Finnish 😂🙌🏻 🇫🇮
Aww yes! Finding resources to learn finnish is actually pretty difficult! It's great they FINALLY added it! The finnish speaking population worldwide is quite small and it makes it really difficult to find people who speak it or teach it if you don't live in Finland yourself! And even then, it's a language you just need to practice and listen to a lot to pick up: it's so complicated there is no way you can pick up on it entirely from intellectualizing it!
If you're looking for resources, I recommend this: areena.yle.fi/tv , they have tons of stuff on their platform to watch, including kid's shows!
@@ElvannReacts I'll definitely look into it! Thanks for the recommendation! I've heard of quite a lot of Finnish learners that they learned the basics by watching children's television, I might have to start doing so as well ;)
"In finnish there's no way to refer to something specifc like 'the'" - there is. It's called context :) You are right, it wasn't a fair question, because determining whether to use a definite or indefinite article depends on whether or not the said toy has been defined in previous conversation. But since there is no previous conversation, there is no way to determine which article to use.
On the "Who is that?", what you chose wasn't incorrect, really, just a bit unusual. The more typical word order would be "Kuka tuo on?", but "Kuka on tuo?" is still grammatically correct. Finnish is a language where multiple word orders are grammatically correct.
You might see a word order like "Kuka on tuo?" in a poem, or a song lyric, to help rhyming, or to sound more.... poetic. 😊
Very good Elvann ❤️❤️❤️ and yeah, choosing "a" over "the" was not wrong. The 2nd "the" error was no longer related to Finnish grammar, Duolingo should combine "the" & "tango" -> "the tango" if they think it's that important
It seem that dualingo doesn't know Finnish grammar, considering that Finnish does not have specific word order, so "Kuka on tuo?" is correct even though it isn't as fluent as "Kuka tuo on?", same with "Missä on vesi?" and "Missä vesi on?". So all you incorrect answers should have been accepted.
Ohh I thought those might have been a bit border, but it's also possible that they wouldn't be considered grammatically incorrect!
I'm Finnish. The dogs are looking for their toy. The dogs are looking for toys. The would be a toy the dogs know, but I think they are looking for a toy, but it becomes a question of dog self awareness that they would know to look for a toy if it is not their toy. I think it was silly to penalize for that, even the "looking for toy" should have been accepted, as this was not a test on English.
pala is actually only "a piece", but also a command to "burn!". For example aamupala is literally morning piece. I can see how that would make someone think pala could be a meal, but this is not something a Finn would even think about. Maybe it was first used as a morning piece of bread?
P.S. your double vowel pronunciation is really good.
OK, many of those translations to Finnish should have been accepted. Even though "Kuka on tuo?" has a bit unnatural word order, it is not grammatically incorrect. It's not something you would hear in everyday speech, but could well hear in some theatrical play. Likewise, "Missä on vesi?" is just as valid a translation for "Where is the water?" as "Missä vesi on?", since the word order in Finnish is pretty flexible. The former translation being rejected is just bullshit on Duolingo's part.
Elvann i love you
Thank you for your kind words!!! ❤️ It's really hard but slowly I'm getting better!
@@ElvannReacts
It's interesting that the first meaning you gave to 'pala' is 'a meal' (which you probably got from something like 'aamupala' = "a morning meal", which kinda makes sense) when actually the first meaning of 'pala' is 'piece' or 'bite'. So for example the literal translation for breakfast would be 'a morning bite' 😁 ps. they really should have accepted your answer for the toy/partitive question 🙄
Se meni oikein hyvin. Lausumisesi kuulostaa hyvältä. Ole ylpeä itsestäsi.
Kiitos Taro! ❤️🥰
I think you were actually correct every time! The word order in Finnish could change, and Finnish doesn't have the definite and indefinite articles that English has and there's no way of detecting which one is meant here, so both should be accepted (and tbh I thought your answer made more sense because the toy wasn't mentioned before). Keep reporting so that Duolingo learns from you! :) I found you through this video, but I'm subscribing for your singing and harp playing as well as more Finnish language videos! Please :)
10:09 You're right. The answer should have been "a toy", not "the toy". In Finnish we use pronouns to make the difference if it is not obvious from the context. The class of pronouns appropriate in this case is called "demonstratiivipronominit": tämä (this), tuo (that), se (it), and the plural forms: nämä, nuo, ne.
BTW, your pronunciation sounds really good.
Thank you so much for the clarification, and thanks a lot for your nice compliment on my pronunciation!! 😂 I should cover a song in Finnish next!
I think "the toy" is (more) correct. But only because it must be somewhat spesific toy if the dogs know to look for it. ;)
@@ElvannReacts You could try covering Veden Alla, by Emma Salokoski Ensemble. And check out the lyrics, even with Google Translate. Amazing.
In Finnish:
En nää pohjaan, en näe onko sen alla
Haukia tai haita
Jotka mut voi kerralla hotkaista
Mut sä näät pintaakin syvemmälle
Sä viet mukaan
Saat minut uskaltamaan sun kaa
Niin vaarallisesti
En oo koskaan mä sukeltanut
Veden pintaa keihään lailla
Halkoo hahmosi jäntevä
Sulava, varma
Vahva, vakuuttava
Vaikuttava
Niin sä viet varmalla otteellasi
Aina vaan kauemmas rannan
Turvasta ja mua huimaa ja pelottaa mut
Siinä sun äänes mua rauhoittaa
refrain:
Sä saat mun salaisen voiman
Nyt heräämään enää
En tahdo piiloon mä juosta
En aina takertua, päästän irti nyt
Aion karata
Kuuletko kun veden alla mä
Huudan ääneen sen kaiken
Ihanan, vapauttavan
Janottavan, kiperän
Pelottavan, uuden
Siinä sun äänes mua rauhoittaa
@@ElvannReacts And in English:
Yes, I know, the surface of the water is far,
I can't see the bottom, I can't see if under there are,
Pikes or sharks,
That can eat me whole,
But you see deeper than the surface,
You take me with you,
You get me to dare with you,
So dangerously,
I have never dived
On the surface like a spear,
Your sinewy figure slices through,
Smooth, flowing,
Strong, convincing,
Impressive
So you take me with your firm grip,
Always further from the shore,
For safety and I'm dizzy and scared but,
There your voice calms me
You get my secret power,
To wake up again,
I don't want to run and hide,
To cling, I'll let go now,
I will escape,
Do you hear me underwater,
I scream out loud everything,
Wonderful, freeing,
Thirsting, tricky,
Frightening, new
Duolingo usually uses a text to speech synthesizer rather than humans talking. Busuu is a superior platform but I don't think they have Finnish.
I'm late to party but Finnish doesn't actually have word order grammar so "Missä on vesi?" means both "Missä on vesi and Missä vesi on". We really don't give a fuck. Besides, we understand what you're saying so nothing else matters.
Drinking moonshine from the jar at the same time. Damn nice :3
Hi Elvann, I think you already subscribed to Floor's channel but to be sure 😜: Watch how Floor Jansen is spending her time on Saturday the 27th of June: BUILDING & WORKING (Storytime #2) - th-cam.com/video/q8_kHu4pwH0/w-d-xo.html
To a question like, "are you hot", English answer would be "yes (I am)". Verb can be dropped.
But the finnish answer should be with the verb! Onko sinulla kuuma. "(kyllä,) On (minulla kuuma)." Yes can be dropped, rest of he sentence is not necessary to repeat.
Oletko tulossa? - Olen.
Syötkö pitsaa? - Syön.
Tuletko sinä? - Tulen.
These kind of questions can be answered by "joo/kyllä", but the answer can also just be the verb, and it still strongly imply that "yes, I am coming/eating etc.)
Very nice Elvann! I agree with you on the "lelu/toy" bit, it would depend on the context if it's "a toy" in general or a very specific toy. In writing the toy would've been needed to be referenced earlier. And lacking context here, I would've answered the same as you. Very nice pronunciation too! Onnea opiskeluun, olet jo pitkällä! 👌
Your Finnish pronunciation sound very good and when there is something wrong you hear it yourself. It's very good with two years on and off studying. Your only have a little trouble with word order and conjugation, but still... VERY GOOD. 9/10 from me. 👌
This was fun to watch :) - I can relate to trying to learn a language that is far removed from your native tongue (AFAIK Suomi is in a language group on its own and besides using the same alphabet as French/English won't have much in common). I'm trying to learn Mandarin as a Dutch guy, but I'm nowhere near the level of your Finnish, if I'd done the Chinese version of this test, I would have gotten only the 1st one LOL. I'm also living in Australia, so not exposed to Mandarin on a daily basis like you would with Finnish, living over there.
Very nice and funny video, keep them coming :-)
Awwnn thank you Ambor!!! 🥰❤️ Yeahee!!! I'll do more!
I do think your answer to the dog toy question should've been accepted, even though I think "the" was more correct
You are really good, but I noticed that you were a bit confused about "to be able to French". Yes, "osata" or "osaa" is to be able to do something, true, but what makes this sentence intelligible to us by our logic is that "ranska" with a lower case R is specifically the French language, whereas Ranska with a capital R is France. This is true for lots of languages and countries (englanti - Englanti; saksa - Saksa; unkari - Unkari; suomi - Suomi, etc.) .... aaaand that's how we know that you are "able to (speak) a language" if someone says that. It's a bit like saying "he/she knows English" vs. "he/she knows England". I hope this makes at least a bit more sense. Of course in spoken Finnish this cannot be distinguished but we are used to this and we would also inflect things with different cases when we talk about countries.
Since you like good music (Nightwish for example) listen to Erja Lyytinen live stream for free today at 6pm or 18.00 hours. She is playing on the roof of a 16 storey building in Kuopio, where she is originally from. She is a marvellous blues guitarist, or guitarist in general. Voted as one of the very best in the world. On Erja Lyytinen Facebook site this evening!
I only know some names of things, a few simple phrases, merry Christmas and some cuss words, but not enough to have a conversation. My grandparents were from Finland( I only knew g-ma on my dad's side)my parents spoke both English and finnish.
My sister's granddaughter is in college majoring in Spanish. Right now, she is teaching Spanish on-line at college. She went to Spain a couple years ago with a classmate, but didn't really enjoy it- long story. But she really enjoys spanish and teaching it.
I'm learning as well, and they said in the earlier lessons that the later a noun is in the sentence the more definite it is. That sounds super nebulous, but Duolingo courses can be pretty formulaic, so that's probably why they had "a toy" marked as wrong and "the toy" marked as right. That's one big thing I'm disappointed about: Duolingo doesn't handle subtlety, language quirks, or advanced linguistics very well, especially if things don't make sense outside a larger discourse (e.g. in languages with topic-comment discourse structures).
Duolingo is not a way to learn the language, but it is a good support. Its biggest weaknesses are almost no grammar and strangeness because of it being based on English. The latter one really produces some strange results.
Definitely a couple of wonky answer alternatives so far, and I'm only at the "Koirat etsivät lelua". You were short changed!
Nice to see you learning Finnish, way to go :) Do some Finnish metal reaction videos once in a while ;)
Oooh absolutely! Any suggestion is welcome!!
Have you considered reading Aku Ankka in Finnish? There's a lot of vocabulary placed in clear context. If you read more Beagle Boys, you'll learn so many synonyms for stealing and the police.
Hi Elvann... there comes some answers, to things what have bother me some times... Like how you have a Iittala Taika series mug on you hands some of you videos :) I think, that item is not wery common outside of finland... Finnish lanquage is odd and there is some strange features... like to try a say in finnish- Vesihiisi sihisi hississä, what meand more or less- Watergobling hiss in the elevator. There is not much sense. It's just a sentece for training. Hard to spell even native finnish child. Nice to get you here- hopefully we see in future you observations finnish customs too ;)
Bye -Juha-
ps. Should I put future comments in english and finnish?
6:33 "Lisää" and "Liikaa" are related because they are basically the opposite of each other.
Lisää = More
Liikaa = Too much
So pay anttention if you ask someone if he/she wants more of something🤣
Looks like Duolingo is not handling Finnish lax word order very well. You had at least twice 100% correct answer, just not the exact word order that Duolingo expected...
I think the "koirat etsivät lelua" one was kinda unfair. But i think "koirat etsivät jotain lelua" would be more non specific. The original is kinda hard to say is it specific or not, could really be either ways.
Mostly we say in Finland:
Vittu and Perkele.
Besides the test you did it not working right, because if you say: missä on vesi, is totally correct, as we allow poetic permutations.
And koirat etsivät lelua is indeed not a specific toy, so the test is partially fucked up.
She would do fine without the moonshine. (pontikka.) On the other hand, it`s really Finnish to do this while drinking pontikka. (korpiroju) Seriously, she´s doing great!
Don't worry if you change the places of those words. Those mistakes you made were mostly just minor mistakes and the order doesn't really matter in most cases, since even I, native Finnish speak like that. It sounds a bit more weirder but still pretty common
Finnish doesnt really have universal grammar. Sure we do have Standard language, but the spoken language is entirery different thing. It is way more forgiving.
I don’t like duolingo or tests in general because sometimes I think the test is wrong - not me. And it pisses me off.
I'm a native speaker of finnish.. I really wanted to try dualingos finnish to see how good it is. I started from the beginning (it was a bit weird) and then decided to go for the final level test... and I failed it (level 4 is the highest level at the moment).... :D
They were looking for a toy, so they knew about it.. that might have been the idea behind it. dunno
Looking for a toy would be just as fine in my opinion, like, if observer knew that they were looking for a specific toy but had no idea what toy they were looking.. but i ain't no linguistic.
I am responding to an old video. Of course it was Duolingo's mistake that the dogs were looking for a toy wasn't accepted. Duolingo has sometimes errors and in the actual exercises users can report then and improve the service. There's also a discussion board for each sentence for situations like these.
Only finns can understand finnish perfectly (85% do), so dont worry, Duolingo is far from perfect!
You are doing so well! Pekka seems to be a good teacher 😉
This was very funny, liked and enjoyed. And you did it very well! Also your Finnish pronunciation is good! I guess soon you could sing something in Finnish?
That test screwed you up... It does not matter which one you use because "kuka tuo on" and "kuka on tuo" mean the same. The first one tho is more like an unpolite way to say it.
girl, i was just drinking water from the exactly same glass when this popped up in my recommendations 😂
I downloaded duolingo to learn German but realized that it doesn't have Finnish - German option
There's not a difference between, what is it called, definite and indefinite pronounce
omg lol lol:]
Not bad, but the test is silly. No silent ques anyhere. "Let's get a beer, I'll rekt your face later"
Just like to let you know, on the nightwish familie facebook page, they linked reaction frpm you on nightwish, becouse the Nightwish fan loves youre reaction .
When you first asked "are you hot?' I must state that yes, you are! Beyond that, this is a good intro to Finnish!
"Kuka tuo on?" is your average Finnish. "Kuka on tuo?" is a more poetic way to say the same thing - quite unusual, but correct nevertheless! The same goes for the water sentence.
The dog toy; "a toy" is more correct. Using "the toy" would imply a previous context of said toy - you were correct! (Well, perhaps the dogs are looking for some specific toy, but we can't know what they think.)
"mies tanssii tangoa" literally means "the man is dancing [the dance called] tango". If you said "mies tanssii tangon" it would mean "the man is dancing a tango" i.e. "the man is dancing a tango/one tango/a song of tango" which relates more to the song and its type, and also the way the man dances, which both are tango. I do dance, btw :)
"You are painting the old chair" could just as well mean "Sinä maalaat vanhan tuolin" - the whole chair instead of just a part of it, or instead of it being in progress. No way to tell to us Finns either...
"Why do you tango?" I didn't know "tango" is a verb in English. "Why do you dance tango?" makes more sense to me...
I think you should make more videos like this, but beware the amount of us helpful Finns willing to help you :) No, seriously, if you haven't figured it out yet, you _will_ be understood no matter how mangled Finnish you speak, as long as the most rudimentary dictionary is there. Form of the word matters so little!
The reason they need to learn about cases, consonant gradation, i/e and other such things is for them to understand written Finnish - something like Minna soutaa joella. You're not going to find joella in a dictionary and need to know the case-ending, i-e change AND k disappearing due to consonant gradation before finding the word in a dictionary!
To pronounce that perfectly is a proof of your musical ear.
😭😱 awwwn that's the best coompliment someone could give me! Thanks!
Top 10 most useful Finnish Duolingo phrases:
1. Harmaa velho kävelee metsässä vai onko hän valkoinen velho.
2. Tämä ranskalainen bändi svengaa kuin hirvi.
3. Morsian on nainen ja sulhanen on siili.
4. Nämä Viikingit asuvat Oslossa ja nuo velhot asuvat jossain Suomessa.
5. Minä puhun kieltä, jota metsät ja suot puhuvat.
6. Minulla on ystävä jolla on lahjakas velho
7. Voi ei, oopperatalo on tuolla ja isä laulaa taas
8. Osaavatko karhut puhua venäjää?
9. Prinsessa ei ole tässä linnassa
10. Purossa on vaarallinen käärme
Out of the 4 mistakes you made, i would have made 3 of them and im Finnish...
Duolingo's Finnish course is full of mistakes or inaccuracies.