Not many, if any, but we're having it for them. The power of technology means that anyone can access it if they really want. Many don't, but some do. The power of education is slow and can only chip away at the forces of religion but eventually it works.
@@IusedtohaveausernameIliked Incidentally, this is actually why many of their holy texts immediately teach them technophobia. Anything to keep them ignorant.
Simple answer too, In Indonesia (I origin from here) moslem more 200 million ppl , malaysia as well nothing new to do inter religion discussion or debate like this in fun, respect and friendly environment
Islam is so peaceful that christopher hitchens cant roam freely in a islamic country but Mr Ramadan can freely exist in any Christian majority country....
I get the sentiment, but I think it's misguided. If you like a speaker/whatever so much, then try and emulate him. The same goes for other popular historical figures.
@@thomasbayer1843what's misguided about saying "that person's mix of experiences and intellect would be valuable right now." Emulating someone doesn't bring that person back to life, lol - it just brings your perspective into focus.
I respect the fact that when Hitchens knew he was on borrowed time, he used it to make as many public appearances as possible within the limits of his health to voice his opposition to religious fanaticism, instead of just resting and spending time with his family and friends. He was at the top of his form until the very end, and that's the best tribute possible to him.
@@honeybabou6119 Whoa, dial it down there, Babou. I think that Tariq is extremely unctuous and dishonest here in his arguments, but if you are going to accuse him of being a serial rapist, can you post links to news articles or accusations by former victims of his alleged assaults? That's a fair request, isn't it?
@@honeybabou6119 Nah it's far from a waste of time. Not only is this guy a monster, he's a monster who can't even fake a coherent worldview. Both his person and his ideas are repudiated, and I think that is a more complete victory.
Guys, don't worry about losing Hitchens. I found him only a few months ago and he's changed my worldview and I'd say my life. Even in death, he's doing more for me than many who are alive. What is death when you truly lived? Love from Nigeria.
It's weird when you find anybody that makes an influence on you and then you find out they are dead, I went through the same thing with Hitchens. It honestly feels like he could still be alive just based on the fact that I probably would never see him anyways
His thoughts,his books and audiobooks, his utter greatness and fierce intellect will live forever more.... Lenore (I am fading here,the raven from Edgar Allan Poe narrated by Christopher Lee on TH-cam is absolutely necessary to hear!) CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS RIP AND MAY EVERYONE SPREAD THE WORD AND KNOWLEDGE WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL IN THESE VERY CHALLENGING TIMES!!!!
Ex-Muslim antitheist here from Pakistan. I left this evil 7th century cult in 2016. One of the best decisions of my life. Glad I'm not part of this evil and barbaric cult anymore
Very well written Eja and Christopher thanks you post hum and surely would have been touched by the gratitude for your absolute kindness and yes, his ideas and his fierce intellect will live forever !!!
@@christophervolk6087 that was undoubtedly his strength,no doubt about that!!!your voice and many others totally reflects his point of view,he surely would have been touched by all this kindness because Christopher was absolutely kind in the first place without any political attachment,no, just being genuine and smart (as in knowledge)!!! he's surely missed but by no means forgotten!!!!⛅
When Hitchens says "Demands that you believe the impossible do not lead to peaceful outcomes.”, he is offering a tidy version of Voltaire who once said "Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.”
@@izzomoses7994 the more Islamist turkey becomes the more it slips down. 2012- 88 in democratic index, now at 110. It's now hoping to showcase itself as the leader of the islamic state. Wikipedia remains banned...press has very limited freedom, 'insulting erdogan' amounts to almost blasphemy...Thousands are in jail or on trial for bogus terrorism charges...Turkey would rate at the very last in democratic index, yet some people would say it's 'still a democracy'. Religion poisons everything especially monotheisms.
Eight adult Muslim women have filed rape charges against Tariq Ramadan. It takes extraordinary courage for a Muslim female to accuse her rapist. Her culture and religion blame her for her own sexual assault. I wonder how many other victims have remained silent.
@@TheOneTrue_Sadman It's all there on the Wikipedia page about Tariq Ramadan. And you can't say it some kind of Islamophobic attack. Muslim women filed the charges. Tariq's defense against the rape charges is that it was consensual sex. That makes eight adultery charges from a expert on Islam.
@@TheOneTrue_Sadman"and in October 2020, Ramadan was formally charged with raping a fifth woman." Wikipedia source: Tariq Ramadan visé par une cinquième mise en examen pour viol". Le Monde.fr (in French). 23 October 2020. Archived from the original on 24 October 2020. Retrieved 24 October 2020.
bloody west shame on you and this bullshit piece aka hitchens has advocted for destruction of whole country IRAQ . while debating either islam is peaceful or not you people have shown your true face as power hungary nihilistic individuals who have long history of violence killing 135 million red indians than 80 million in ww2 and now 5 million+ in post 9 11 wars and presently in gaza...how dare you to judge us on peace you dont deserve to sit with us....
That’s what makes me the most frustrated. This man warned us so much, but people are too ignorant. See universities right now and the protests. Hitchens wouldn’t be happy at all
He is gone, but do not despair. Uphold the mantle. It is a many-arrowed burden but those of us that bear it know the weightlessness of reason despite our armor. Tread forth in his name.
the religion does not make these demands. its human custodians do that. religion neither good or bad. rather, it is both. evil is necessary to measure good - and vica versa.
@@TheAdamwest29 why is religion good and bad, who told you that, and why should I believe it, where is the proof? People are good and bad, it has nothing to do with religion. Religion is a weapon for mass manipulation, there is no proof of any religious claims has ever happened.
A religion that has an aim to convert the entire world to follow Islam only says how peaceful it is. This claim alone is says it’s lack of respect for all non believers
But that is nothing new in Christianity; it was no different 400 years ago. The difference is that Islam has not been around as long as Christianity. Becoming an atheist as a Christian is much easier than if you are born a Muslim or Mormon. It is not a free decision.
@@AcidGubba Biggest difference is there hasn't been a Muslim analogue to Martin Luther, who has the balls to reform the religion and do so in a populist way. WITHIN the perimeter of the religion. Then people would be less hostile.
Islam is only asking you to worship God alone and don't worship your desires and devils, Islam is not new the idea of one God is everywhere in all religious books including in Hinduism
Having watched all these debates at the time, it's great to see them getting a fresh audience over a decade later. Watching him get ill and die in real time was horrendous, he was a bit of hero of mine at the time. What was staggering was how he was able to maintain his whit, charm, humour and immense rhetorical skills right up to the end. He was a shadow of his former self physically, but the mind was still extraordinary.
Even in death he’s a beacon of intellectuality that’s inspiring young people like myself to do better everyday. It staggers the mind to think that most of what he put forth in his lifetime still rings true. Hitchens is the man.
I too grew up as a slightly younger contemporary of Hitch. And every time his odious brother opens his mouth, or pens his latest vitriol, apologia or misplaced belief he was a fraction of his sibling - I lament the death of the wrong Hitchins.
@@rick-potts Have you by any chance seen the first hitchens vs hitchens debate from 99? I too have long held a deep dislike for Peter and was surprised to see, he does indeed have a sense of humour. It's one of the few videos of Peter in which didn't leave me with a dull ache in my jaw.
Indeed. What's great about this debate is how even his Muslim opponent can't help but laugh or smile at several points in response to Hitchens' charismatic points.
@@myk1137 that was before erdogan buddy. Turkey and Iran both share similarities in that they where pretty progressive until the violent troglodytes took over. Iran seems like it could come back anytime now though. Idk about turkey.
@@reddevil211287 His "type" are muslims. Watch ANY muslim apologists, even the lauded Hijab. It's pure rhetoric, with varying degrees of sophistication, very highly observable in Hijab's case, but pure rhetoric and no substance. It is the appeal to idiocy and ignorance fallacy that all religious apologists use in makign a point. And it makes me fume
As someone raised Muslim and now atheist, i know intricate details about islam , the consusual history and the unheard truthfully one. It is absolutely spot on for Hitchens on every single point and even more. It's the worse ideology ever created by mankind, worse than Nazism and fascism. And my only hope - though i will be long gone - is that it will eventually be trimmed down and become cultural as Christianity. After all, Christianity had 600 years over islam. Although given the fundamental pillars of islam, i find this doubtful without bloodshed.
And trust me when i say this, there is worse stuff within the Qur'an, Hadiths and islamic history that is almost impossible to comprehend and understand if you are not a native Arabic speaker or you have spent your entire life studying it. Things that are horrific and mostly unspoken as the western receiver will not be able to understand even in translation. The book is even worse than what the worst atheist critique makes it be.
The problem is Christianity only very recently ‘trimmed itself down’, and only because its societies allowed it to happen. Islamic countries need to WANT to modernize. But even then: Christianity doesn’t have explicit phrases like killing a Jew is a sure fire way to heaven. The Quran does. I don’t think Islam can be reformed unless it’s completely changed….it needs something akin to a Protestant movement, or it will continue down the regressive path. With Arab states constantly looking at Israel in both admiration and disgust without diagnosing how to become more like them instead of idiotic ambitions of destruction.
@@Ososmdoh I am well aware. It’s why the most hardened Zionists in the tribe are those whom are Mizrachi (eg: from Arab countries). The intolerance isn’t overnight. It’s been for many centuries. Even when Iran was ‘tolerant’ for example most Iranian Jews hid their identities to avoid random pogroms and difficulties in trade/commerce.
@@HarisAhmed-dm6te literally read Hamas’ charter for starters lol. Unfortunately there’s a lot of censorship on comments here and I don’t want to waste time posting things that just get shadowbanned. You’ll need to google it yourself.
Sometimes words of people like Hitchens is a slow burn. I remember watching this video almost 10 years ago and at the time I was a believer of Islam (come from a moderate family) , but as the years rolled by thanks to the Internet and others like Hitchens, the fog of programming since childhood started to fade and now has been cleared up. Thank you Hitchens!
@@hamzakamran2485 personally, although i watch christopher hitchen occasionaly and other atheist debaters, I do not think I will leave Islam for anything.
@ali bazzi may I ask. I've seen some muslims claiming that "islamic states" as in incorporating islam into the laws are actually not what islam aspires to have (A journalist, Mehdi Hassan wrote about it). Do you agree with that? To what extent is shariah law a part of Islam? Does "islamic type of government" exist in Quran at all?
@@piratassarajevo4293 Tbh most muslims aren't taught enough about their religion. I am actually studying Fiqh (islamic jurisprudence) in Cape Town, S. Africa. Most muslims are not middle-easterners. Point being that Islam is both a world wide religion and it has a history that rivals any of the older religions in complexity. I'm going to say some things and I will elaborate on each that anyone wants more information on. Although there were many Muslim countries, none were Islamic states. There is misunderstanding on the meaning of sharia, it is not Islamic law. Sharia is a metaphorical description that encompasses how a Muslim should live their lives. Muslims are okay with western laws, until in stops us from expressing our faith and love of God The Quran was not a comprehensive book. Similarly in physics, in Islamic theology it's as if the content is purposefully incomplete. It is implied that although there is a good path, the Quran doesn't touch on why's, how's and what's about the stuff it says. Not because there aren't reasons but because it's our Jeehad to figure it out Meaning that, as of now any muslim Scholar House does not lay claim to having a universal Sharia or even Fiqh
@@muhammadedwards8425 so in reality, it's better to keep the state secular (even when the majority is muslim) since islam doesnt really stipulate how the government+law should be established? And shariah is the product of cultures+different interpretations rather than a fixed guideline from quran....am I understanding it correctly?
@@saadidrissi3181 Firstly, Sharia literally means the straightest path to a source of fresh water. It is metaphorical for 'the way one should live their life'. And there is no agreed upon Sharia, the way people use the word now. Secondly, I mentioned most muslims don't know enough about the history of the practitioners of Islam and about Islamic concepts in general. Therefore, using their opinions on law is not a indicator of the religion itself. Also contrary to the opinions of those muslims, Islamic scholars have a long tradition of legal pluralism. Meaning different laws apply to different groups in society. Christendom follows Christian law etc. until two groups are involved. I think many muslims might be more open with this idea if they knew about their history Lastly, I mentioned metaphorical basis', the Quran is not a scientific book of miracles. No muslim scholar of the Quran who does his work would believe that because that does not correlate with the reasoning for it being revealed
As a Greek person I could not find anything more offensive than Mr Tariq Ramadan’s claim of the diversity and culturally accepting environment under the Ottoman Empire. Mr Ramadan would do well with further reading about the tyranny, slavery, genocide and atrocities committed on the communities of Greek, Pontiac, Kurdish, Armenian and various other inhabitants who occupied the land PRIOR to the invasion. Terms such as slavery and forced conversion must have skipped Mr Ramadans vocabulary.
Yes the Ottoman Empire, just like any empire is nothing to be proud of, or aspire to. We are meant to learn from history and not repeat it. The average man or woman is peaceful until they are Instigated by harm, but they have the restraint to deal with it in a humanitari way. Unless thay are corrupted by teachings such as religion which instructs them on how to deal with such situations which can twist their inate moral compass.
Im from Kosovo and I can confirm you are brainwashed and bringing forth a revised version of history meant to topple the Ottoman empire. Greeks speak Greek. Greeks are orthodox Christians. Greeks still have their own culture. Greeks have their own churches and schools. This was true for 1200y. Then Europe and liberalism came. Look at Greece now. What a shitstain on the planet. Im not sure whether im in frikkin Spain or Greece. Stop believing your brainwashed grandparents or white supremecists revisional historians. Read a frikkin book about facts and form your own opinions.
Ειλικρινά έχω μείνει μαλακας, συγγνώμη για την έκφραση, με τη τοποθέτηση του τύπου. Ολόκληρα τα Βαλκάνια ματωσαν κατά την περίοδο της Τουρκοκρατίας και είναι εξοργιστικο όταν διάφοροι "ιστορικοί" προσπαθούν να πείσουν τον κόσμο ότι οι βαρβαρότητες των Οθωμανών δεν έγιναν ποτέ. Ευτυχώς ο Hitchens τον έβαλε στη θέση του. 👌
This isn't the case at all! If greeked really were treated as you describe, there wouldn't be any orthodox greeks left, isn't. The present proves his point. But offcourse as people always do, afterwards people who realy were not treated that bad for that time in history, start to invent their own history as they want to perceive it. This is mostly politicaly motivated.
I think he would be both horrified and saddened if he was still around today as our governments have welcomed this cult and sold us all down the river.
bloody west shame on you and this bullshit piece aka hitchens has advocted for destruction of whole country IRAQ . while debating either islam is peaceful or not you people have shown your true face as power hungary nihilistic individuals who have long history of violence killing 135 million red indians than 80 million in ww2 and now 5 million+ in post 9 11 wars and presently in gaza...how dare you to judge us on peace you dont deserve to sit with us....
He'd have been mocked and ridiculed to the point normies see his name and cringe. Doesn't matter how smart you are or how reasonable your logic is, the media controls who see's it and how they see it.
@@Waywind420 you don’t seem to read a lot of books… is the media like CNN and Fox News your only source of information to make that statement? I hope you go out and get a book of each of the greats including Hitchens
@@thefallengallery6459 I don't read books, I have no interest in books. I listen to podcasts, debates, and I trawl through news articles, wiki's and threads. I don't have any particular loyalty to any media company, but I recognize that some major publications are incredibly inaccurate, bias and misinforming (I'm looking at you Guardian UK)
People need to cut out these comments like: "We need Hitchens today!" No, we don't - what we really need: That you and me step in his footsteps, fighting for truth ourselves. And to raise another generation who will speak the truth once we are gone. The Hitch is dead - and if we'd really understand him (and other great thinkers), we would not mourn but take matters into our hands.
@@TheEverFreeKing 🤣🤣🤣 so Ramadan speaks a bunch of gibberish, asks you to ignore evidence and you eat it up because his "argument" agrees with your skewed and narrow world view. Talk about shallow and laughable 🤣🤣🤣
@@akashsom8357 The logic can only be understood by logical people. I don't guess your very logical. BTW, I don't waste time watching flies on garbage cans. Sounds like a hobby for you.
Christopher Hitchens was an intellectual giant. His knowledge of history, politics was unmatched. This guy mentioned Turkey and Hitchens cornered him within seconds, telling him about Cyprus occupation, Kurds rights, Armenian genocide. He was in a league of his own, sorely missed.
That is because you are bias and you don't know the real facts of history. So whatever bulish invented facts, Mr. Hitchens comes up with, you really like to swallow it.
As well as Hitchens warning about letting Islamist in to your country and then being too afraid to stand up to them. We are seeing that come to a head recently too.
@@1984isnotamanualyou mean age like wine? Because that is precisely what is happening, and in addition showcasing to westerners that most of Islam hasn’t been able to wrestle with the fact that minority groups deserve representation (whereas Christians have reluctantly)
@@laminoor566 The commenter is pointing out the hypocrisy of Mr. Ramadan's conjecture, in the realm of actions speak louder than ancient written words.
The true form of Islam is to act kind. Most moslems forget about a word 'Akhlak' that means good attitude. This.. is, actually, the main Mohammad message. But, many of them seems to forgetting it and too focused on sins/worship issues. And not about social relationship between individuals. Islam, even in it's communal form, actually very individual based religion. I mean, you need to fix yourself first before looking outside. Judging, prejudice, and in this case... Feeling 'holier' than others is also a sin.
Why do muslims keep assuming their religion existed before Christianity 😂 This liar sneaked it in at 46:00 and then covered it by other issues which is often their Dawah tactics when debating for their religion of lies.
bloody west shame on you your country and this bullshit piece aka hitchens has advocted for destruction of whole country IRAQ . while debating either islam is peaceful or not you people have shown your true face as power hungary nihilistic individuals who have long history of violence killing 135 million red indians than 80 million in ww2 and now 5 million+ in post 9 11 wars and presently in gaza...how dare you to judge us on peace you dont deserve to sit with us....
1:13:48 that's a piss poor point from Tariq. For example, something like 75% of British Muslims believe that the Danish artist who drew a cartoon of the prophet Mohammed should be criminally prosecuted and over half of British Muslims believe that homosexuality should be outlawed. This is DESPITE the fact they are living in a completely different country with vastly different cultural values, yet they still hold these rather disturbing thoughts mostly true.
Mark Adkins no we are not worried about a cartoon we are worried that there is a huge amount of people willing to fucking kill over a cartoon and want the people who drew it in JAIL OR DEAD. In 2020. In a modern country. It’s fucking barbaric
In the whole debate u found one poor point from tareq, great job but i found more than 8 illogical statements came from ur scholar's mouth so no need to mention such stuff and stop picking sides.
Certainly Tariq had good points, islam fundamentally is wicked, but certainly the perception of the believers is adapting to secular standards so i think that it will end up like Christianity, with people that can question the religion adn the worst that you can get is having to deal with an angry Karen
Tariq Ramadan is a Swiss Muslim academic, philosopher, and writer. He was a professor of contemporary Islamic studies at St Antony's College, Oxford and the Faculty of Theology and Religion, University of Oxford, but as of 2018 is taking an agreed leave of absence due to being held in prison following two rape allegations
@@will-ellington He has been acquitted of one charge, there are yet four outstanding charges against him (as well as other allegations related to the rape charges, but not themselves rape charge). He's not coming back to Oxford, that's for certain.
"Islamophobia" is a smoke-screen term. Having a phobia means having an irrational fear. But fearing Islam which wants 80% of humanity enslaved or exterminated is totally rational. Hence, you cannot call this a phobia.
it's common sense, survival, rational, and also a love gesture when you see an agitated child that invade your peace, you teach him to stop and focus for a while. that's what will happen to Islam at one point
His entire performance was _A whole lot of nothing._ His best defense was addressed before he even said it, when Hitchens stayed up front that claiming the “bad” Muslims, ARENT _real Muslims._ They misread the text and are practicing “anti-Islam” he claimed. In reality, if you read the Quran, Sira, and Hadiths, you will with absolute certainty quickly find conscription to murder or subjugate other humans.
Did ramadan really say it's a tiny minority of clerics that believe in the death penalty for homosexuality, apostasy, etc? I'd love to see this supported with facts. Once again, the religion is peaceful. It's just that all of these Muslim majority countries keep getting it wrong somehow.
The extremely peaceful muslims you talk about lead humble life’s in this dunya, you won’t ever hear about them. SubhanAllah may everyone find peace and the truth Alhamdulillah Salamu alaykum warahmatullahi wa barakatuh.
I just noticed he wore a pin representing the flag of the 1956 hungarian revolution. It just goes to show he was a true humanitarian speaking up against tyranny be it political, theological or both. The world is poorer without him.
Because he was slightly raising his voice it means he was threatening? I have seen many of Ramadan's lectures and that is just one of his traits of speaking. It is called passion for the field he works in. Nothing to do with 'threatening'. Kind of sad even that people like you try to poison people with hate while Ramadan has dedicated his life to do his best to create an understanding between people. It shows the contrast between people like you and mr Ramadan and who are the real hateful people
@@rememberpalestine-uyghurs-2918 Why religion at all? What possible advantage is there in any religion? With religions I see nothing more than keeping people in line, somewhere, somehow. With Islam its mainly women.
@@toni4729 There's so much arrogance and ignorance in this comment. I can say so many things in response... First thing i want to say at this comment, who are you to ask people why they are religious or not? In the same way i can question you. "why atheism"? Mao and Stalin were atheists, and they were the ones who have massacred more people in their lifetime than many religious wars troughout the centuries combined. It's not up to atheists to question muslims about their beliefs, rather it is the contrary.
It's sometimes extraordinarily difficult to listen to Mr Ramadan without wondering why he does not mention that the perfect man and final prophet, who consummated a marriage with a nine-year old child, also dealt in slavery and spread his message by the sword.
Prophet Muhammad and his companions freed thousands of slaves, Aisha was documented a mature, menstruating woman, every battle or campaign was defensive in nature. Try again. Your anti-Islamic polemics and apologetics of Hitchens or Harris is laughably pathetic and astonishingly ignorant!
@@TheBeyonderYT😂😂 You’re talking like you know about the Qur’an, please do show the ‘gems’ of the Qur’an that would make anyone leave Islam… Btw, to all of you, child marriage was normal centuries ago, barely 100 years ago in most countries the age of consent was 12… So y’all have no problem with 12 years olds getting married but you do for 9 years old? Humans change, and so do their morality, but that doesn’t mean we should judge past communities with our morality of today, that is simply ignorant to do so.
Mr. Ramadan's speech is almost substance free although he is good at making it sound as though he says something meaningful. Stark contrast to Hitchens on the first point.
Because all Muslim apologists like Tariq can never and will never directly address the issues of Islam that Hitchens brings up. For all their fluffy wonderful talk about Islam's values of peace, spirituality and family, all of this stuff is used as a shield to hide and deflect the fact that Islam endorses values that are intolerant, authoritarian and violent.
Violence is to be expected when you attack nation upon nation on baseless facts I.E fake claims of WMDs in Iraq, killing millions of innocent people also occupying a nation that welcomed you to their land in Palestine from being oppressed by nazi Germany to being the same thing you run away from to those that welcomed you. Hypocrisy is very strong within must western world you can’t expect to take a number 2 around the world then be surprised when you don’t flush what you did will come back in some form thanks to the wind.
Hitchens stance is mostly humrous and at times mocking picking bits and pieces here and there and that's what people like but Mr Ramadan has refuted it beautifully on ground realities. RIP Hichens
Christopher Hitchens was a phenomenally intelligent man and an absolutely brilliant man to debate people on this subject........ and probably anything else as well. He is sorely missed.
@@a.a.7903 Quran: “And when the sacred months are passed, kill those who join other gods with God wherever ye shall find them; and seize them, besiege them, and lay wait for them with every kind of ambush.”
@@a.a.7903 Wrong they teach the book to the letter and some are abominable in every sense of the word. The example below is just one. Look as an atheist, if muslims got together and reformed the book it would do a lot of good the same as the Christians did with the old testament and new. I find them all absurd but it would be a good start. Some research shows the Muslim religion to actually be a giant lie since there are giant holes in the story made about the main character - by one man, 2 centuries after the main character died. For example he was written about some 2 centuries later and Mecca didn't exist when claimed. time points do not add up since many Mosques point to Petra completely redefining the entire tale with the location of the main character and his origins being in question.
@Non Mon (sigh) Yes...I knew this....but my point is it's not surprising how many fundamentalists take this verse quite literally not to mention the verse doesn't sound very peaceful no matter what the context is.
If a religion or philosophy is so complicated and obtuse that people can mistake it's peacefulness for intolerance, it appears we have an enormous problem no matter who the people are believing it.
The moral high ground is readily available to any religion that doesn’t support roving bands of state sponsored serial killers to murder their wives,daughters and sons for disobedience to their dress code,going to school,adultery or homosexuality.
Thank you Christopher Hitchens for being a shining light to the world of truth and logic. You have changed my life and I appreciate the patience and resilience you faced in your life to make this world better. R.I.P: 1949-2011
@@thesigmamale2134 if i gave u a book and told u these letters arranged them self's over billions of years to be a complete book by pure chance will u ever believe me ? then how come this complex human body and this complex universe came by pure chance instead of a designer. if there is no god u and i will end the same way Dust. but if there is god u will wish u were a believer or end as dust.
@@muslim_kun that is a false analogy. Because two things share the quality of complexity doesn't mean both have a desinger behind it. In other words while the book and the universe are complex we can't assume the universe has a designer simply because one has one.
+AbconTv No explain yourself. Explain your authority of the disgusting claim that the great hitchens is in hell. If hell were to exist and hitchens was there , I'd go.
I truly loved this man and prayed for him everyday. I missed my chance to meet him in the early 2000s. My daughter obtained his book and he signed it. A treasure of mine. His non belief didn't make me an unbeliever. I will always admire this man!
Rather perfect. Hitch looks at the EVIDENCE .. and comes to a conclusion. The Religionist literally tells us to IGNORE evidence .. and tells us what we SHOULD see. It’s practically a perfect example of Religion vs Reason.
False. Hitchens speaks of a time when his white ancestors had infiltrated the muslim lands and caused destruction. Tariq speaks of 1200y islam where peace prospered.
@@dadush4 Wouldn't be so sure about peace, Islam started in the year 610, Ever since then it was constant civil war or war with other countries if you look at history
@C Hill 7 Nothing courageous about "tolerating" points in a debate, unless you're indirectly asserting that Ramadan has some very well and thoughtful points which would be hard to debate against? Your horsesh*t comment makes no sense. Courageous of me to reply to it? Ha!
@@georgegratindefinois4912 As I said elsewhere much further down the line than here, if that's true, it's horrible, but it wouldn't really reflect on the merits of his arguments here, just like if someone accused Hitchens of a heinous sexual assault, even if it were true, it wouldn't reflect on the validity of his arguments or lack thereof here - and I say this as someone who largely sides with Hitchens.
Allah said in the Qur'an: "Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly." Meanwhile atheists in china for example r rounding up muslim women children elderly..in the biigest brainwashing torture center in the world.. In the hadiths in Sahih Bukhari Volume 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 258. Narrated By Ibn 'Umar : During some of the Ghazawat of Allah's Apostle a woman was found killed, so Allah's Apostle forbade the killing of women and children. " There r many other hadiths like this one about ethics of war prohibiting torture, unlawfull killing of animals, destruction of trees, killing innocent civilans, monks in their monasteres..Meanwhile, stalline, lenine, the chinese regime, the drug cartels, the french occupation of Algeria Tunisia Mali..showed us how "peaceful" atheist secular regimes r..not to mention that most of them today sponsor the zionnist anti muslim terror in Palestine, & many secular dictators in the muslim world. When it comes to trinitarianism, did you know when the church used to rule in the holy city, in Spain, in Serbia..what did they do? They tortured & killed all those who refused to become Trinitarians (Jews muslims ex Trinitarians..) Meanwhile in that same time muslims used to be ruled by strict shariah law resulting in the saving of the jews from the crusades in Spain & peacefull coexistence between Trinitarians jews & muslims before the Trinitarian inquisitions when the church tortured to death all non Trinitarians.
Tariq is a gift to mankind. He has the incredible ability of saying so much without any substantial meaning. He also has the inexplicable ability of changing the question to fit his own version of the answer.
Hitchens is alive through his works. His videos are still available in TH-cam. But in near future, TH-cam will probably take them in order to appease the Muslims who will violently demand them to be removed.
You said it my friend. Look at the state of the Western world crying out for a man like Hitchens to surface and take on our enemies and were he still with us I do believe we wouldn’t be in quite the mess we are. He would appeal to our courage and face the enemy instead of Quislings in politics letting in the Trojan horse and good men say and do nothing.
Tariq Ramadan accused of rape in Lyon: a fifth complaint added to the file The facts allegedly occurred in May 2014 at the Sofitel hotel in Lyon. While interviewing Tariq Ramadan in his suite, *the victim recounts having been pushed around and then raped several times by the Islamologist and one of his friends.* www.leprogres.fr/faits-divers-justice/2020/07/29/tariq-ramadan-accuse-de-viol-a-lyon-une-plainte-ajoutee-au-dossier
@Vinnie P. I know. That's why i didn't want to listen to him in the first place. But then i gave him a chance and he's a very sophisticated guy and Hitchens' argument seems, all of a sudden, very shallow.
5:37 Hitchens opening statements 18:32 Ramadan opening statements 33:40 Hitchens rebuttal 45:09 Ramadan rebuttal 55:27 open discussion 1:08:01 Q+A 1:11:33 Ramadan on progressive Muslim-majority countries 1:16:06 Hitchens on the same 1:17:33 Ramadan on literal Quran 1:20:24 Ramadan on Sharia 1:26:16 Hitchens on Sharia
Notice how every “answer” Tariq gave was actually just a rejection of the premise of the question. He then invented his own version of the question and answered that.
It's the standard response method when faced with points you cannot address, redirect, move the goal posts and make your position about something else, it's weak and shows you cannot argue your point.
@@jakewebdev6428 I'm from Iran so I know a thing or 2 about theocracies and the religion of "peace". Please don't try to defend it , most of us in Iran hate this religion.
@@jakewebdev6428 Thats a contradiction in itself. You can not be good if you hold your religion above all else. With this view it is easy to justifiy any atrocity you want.
I'm a Christian and know there is a stain on our history. I acknowledge that and disavow those evil men & church leaders. I know many peaceful Muslims, but if you try to get them to make the same statement disavowing their own religion's bloody acts, you are in danger of literally losing a friend. I lost a friend who was like a sister to me because I expressed concern over how serious she was getting about Islam. I was worried that her new Iranian boyfriend was going to have her under some sort of Sharia law when they got married and just bringing it up prompted her to end our 22 year friendship.
@paxtonb3926 thats terribly illogical. To the original comment, she did you a favor and you'd be doing yourself a favor if you spent some time in honest reflection as to what the atrocities perpetrated in the name of Christianity (up to present day Ill add) imply about your religion and its origins.
Exactly. This was a show debate, but I'm glad some people listened to it - having already listened to everything else that's online that he's ever done, I just couldn't.
@@shelleymartin1451 usa has the most cases of fathers killed by their children under the age 15 were these children's Muslims..??usa starved millions of children in iraq and Afghanistan soviet union and china killed +200million people the last century why arnt they called terrorrist??
Correct me if I'm wrong I have never heard of a Buddhist kill while chanting "Buddha the great " i have never heard of a jew kill while chanting "baruch hashem" and i have never heard a Christian kill while chanting "Jesus christe"
Yes that's immediately what I thought.. says false premise/ inappropriate description, then redefines question to suit his answer. It seems his whole schtick is "I have THE answer, your just asking the wrong question"
@@Jawadshahzad101 I’m just pointing out what they always do when u being up versus of the Quran that make the religion look bad. They say if it isn’t in Arabic then it’s not correct.
So Yehoshua (Jesus) is supposed to be a prophet of Allah according to Islam ??? How does it work if Allah is not YHWH! In addition, it is the UNFORGIVABLE SIN in Islam to testify to YHWH as the 1 True God! But Yehoshua means "YHWH SAVES”” So Jesus is definitely not the prophet of Allah! Because he only confirm YHWH!
41:30 EXACTLY In pakistan the mullah who incited a man to kill another 'blasphemer" is going around freely in Masjids and is allowed to PREACH by the name of Mufti Muhammad Hanif Qureshi.
My take home phrase from this debate: "there is no religion of peace by definition." He was near to death, knew he was reduced by the medication he had to take, in pain, coughing, and yet he had the bravery to step out on stage, again, in front of an audience and cameras and a clever opponent to make his stand for truth as he saw it. Right or wrong, that is magnificent. It adds to his charm that he was right.
@@rubif5797 Religion and born from it the differences and orders to convert others and execute any who leaves. Yes sure "Religion is not the reason for it"
@@sparkynova4246 Wars are fought for recources and Land. Slavery and war is the result of greed. You can build rockets for destruction and for research. You can use knowledge for medicine and for chemical weapons. You can use religion for meditation and self reflection, for finding peace. And you can use it as a reason to fight. To say, "well i am an atheist So all evil must come from religion" is the same as to say, " i chose the right religion so i do the right thing and everybody else is evil." To feel superior and move all blame to the other side. This is why i will not be on either side. Both are wrong. For some reason nobody wants to find the bad inside themself. Allways blame the other side.
@@rubif5797 There is no country of peace, true. So when you hear countries declaring themselves that, doubt it, say it isn't true. The same goes for religions. When they say they are religions of peace, doubt it, say it isn't true. It isn't true in both cases; both nations and religions ARE causes for war. So you contest the argument by naming another source of war, namely the artificial boundaries that we draw on the ground and call national borders. That doesn't get religion off the accusation at all, and is irrelevant to it's defence. All you have done is introduce an additional culprit.
A true hero of his time and the ones to come after. Such an inspiration for all mankind and such an articulate thinker. Hats down. He did so much even when he knew he was dying... Amazing person, great man!
I left Islam when I read the Qur’an and the biography of Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam Now I live in Iraq and I can't talk about it even with my family I might be killed, and society will reject me, it's very difficult for me and many Arabs leave Islam every day, but they cannot announce that because they may be killed and of course society rejects them.
@@RnRanimal Idk man everyone in the comments seems triggered about something. It's a debate. We're here to learn. And the comment makes no sense. Point to a moment where hostility was shown. And I could at least explain myself more, but it's a blanket statement. Hitchens was also aggressive and angry you dont see anyone making a statement about that.
Tariq says "The problem is not the book, it's the reader." Why would a god-or even a smart man-inspire a book that can be misunderstood? The problem is the book.
Any book or ideology can be taken out of context and be "intentionally" misunderstood to fulfill an agenda, aka ISIS, al Qaida, etc. These are not muslims. They take implicit superimposed messages of harming people and supersede explicit messages of not harming any human beings. This can be done with any religion, and this can be done with ANY ideology (maoist china, communist russia, etc.) The problem isn't the book, it's the people.
@@bassemghoneim4904 but if that book claims too be the most perfect and last message from GOD himself, then this statement is contradictory. If allah himself cannot create a book that is so clear and straightforward, but claims it to be the "perfect word" then god himself failed.
maq dad Quran 3:7, Surah Al-Imran: It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.
I hate people who don't address the discrepancies that are brought up or the problems addressed. Moderators NEED to start calling people out about people who don't answer the questions asked or addressing the claims made. If a person is going to address the claim but not dispute it, then what's the point?
I don't see why so many people would find executing traitors so absurd. Contrary to what you believe Islam is not exclusively a body of philosophical teachings; it's a way of life, the way of life for all that believe in Allah and there are rules as there are in all orders.
@Mark Aguilera a single narrated Hadith can not take life. Every reasonable Muslim Theologian would tell you this and tgey would also explain you the context of the Hadith. Theology is an academic approach to religion. It's not that easy as people make it look like. It's not that you read texts out of context without consideration of the bigger picture and than take your own understanding as absolute and apply what you have understood of the text and then say that's Islam.
@@ahmetrefikeryilmaz4432 you don't see why people would find the killing of innocent people absurd? The killing of those who question the existence of Allah or the truth of their holy texts? The honor killings of women, and the slaughtering of gays? You don't understand how batshit crazy that is to anyone who doesn't believe in that stuff? Imagine if there was a place that touted Harry Potter as the prophet, similar to Christ. The Harry Potter series of books was believed to be true, and any question of it's authenticity would get you killed. You don't see a problem with this?
I absolutely cannot stand Tariq Ramadan. He is one of the most rambling, least intelligible speakers I've ever had the displeasure of listening to. He is the very definition of someone who talks for hours without saying anything.
My thoughts exactly. Even when he does make points, he could easily take something which took him 15 minutes, and shrink it into 2 minutes and still have the same impact.
Strings of Peace These are allegations. Wait for the court to reach its decision. On the points he raised in te debat, Tariq has said nothing fraudulent
scottski02, AND someone to learn from, because a precise analysis of how he rambles can be greatly instructive for those looking to refine their debating skills, in the same way that religious debaters can provide a great lesson in logical fallacies and misdirection tricks
Why have I only found out about this man in the last few days? What a speaker. The way his comments have seeped into my memory and stuck with me over these last few days is so crazy, but also so intellectually stimulating.
Plenty of his material online that makes him immortalised. I too wish he was still here, but it is up to us to continue the advocacy of freedom of thought and inquisition.
this is a dangerous question to ask for a religious person to ask as it is questioning God not faith and religious people know not to question God. I think this is why you won’t get a solid answer to your question.
@@chrissonofpear1384 actually if you read hadith bukhari you will know that muhammad had black slaves not only that but he chose to trade 2 black slaves of his with a white one who was muslim and set him free now isnt that racist?
@@chrissonofpear1384 i was following islam just 2 months ago and now i feel disgusted , if you want to know about your religion go to atheists is what i learned because theres so much information hiddden from you by those who lead the religion , theres the fact that they think honor killing is ok and marrying a minor is acceptable and its so sexist that it puts feminists to shame
Lol, people in my local area have for a relatively long time now been harassing me, or were harassing me, on behalf of a religious nutcase who was convinced it was "God's plan" for me to breed with him, be with him, whatever, or just associate with him on any level. The amount of chaos, destruction, pain and suffering this caused me was devastating. Religion in general the last couple years has led to the complete ruin of my life. Obviously as any brave warrior should, I am trying to live my life regardless, but it does not detract from the damage that religious people have done to it. And even non-religious people, who simply have no conscience and cannot think for themselves. But I'm like guys...This guy (the guy from the church) will win the lottery, get killed by a vending machine, struck by lightening twice, be killed by a falling coconut and hit by a meteorite (the latter 3 are all more probable than winning the lottery btw) before coming anywhere near me lol, or having anything to do with me lol. And even then, he wouldn't, should in some crazy alternate reality any or all of those things happen 🤣
@@LMorningstar-yv8ouI'm really sorry for everything that happened to you. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to have all these people harrassing you in such a stupid and mean way. I hope you get better and better. I don't know if you can get away from there or not, but I believe it'll be okay in the end. Screw these people
@@thegroove2000 We can try to emulate him. But I know, speaking for myself, I'm not anywhere near as articulate. But I like your point - to try to as much as possible, agree!
Interesting how Tariq Ramadan starts off by equivocating and saying that the question of peace is the wrong question. Im not an expert but the idea of peace (not killing each other) is not complicated.
And profoundly damaging . He would not answer to the question of how the Hadith deals with apostates , to name only one question . This guy spent so much time selling his peaceful “ Islam that apostates leaving in France are scared of ally these “ peaceful “ muslims who threaten them with death .
Questions to antiomoral ideology of islam. 1) Can woman decide for herself, or her `caretaker` have deciding voice? 2) Can nonbeliever marry `muslim` woman? 3) How you should treat apostates from islam? 4) Why peace and freedom are in Islam synonyms to war and slavery(subjugation)? 5) How doas afterlife differs, depending on you being islamist/nonislamist man/woman or ... yourself up and becoming martyr? 6) Why women have to wear these bags, maybe islamist should just po.. their eyes, that will have multiple pros, like they will be unable to k!ll anybody, or it will be much harder?
On first watch, I had some respect for Ramadan's point of view, in the face of a strong, reasonable and intellectually superior Hitchens. Watching it again, some years later, I now see that Ramadan's argumentation is very weak indeed and even less a match for Hitchens than I realised on first watch. I think Ramadan's position is, in fact, chilling, weird, self-satisfied, partial, inaccurate, unworldly, and defends the indefensible.
@@MrYelly Oh wow! I didn't realise. I've just read into it. What a disgusting man. I called him "chilling, weird": perhaps I was picking up on something dark about his character.
@@ashcross We often do pick up on dark things about dark people. It is just so darned hard to rightfully point it out when they attempt to wear the face of "peace, love and unity". I am very glad that at least the hypocracy of this ridiculously evil bozo has ended. Thank you for your insights.
There are murderers from every culture and religion. However, when the murders claim to kill in the name of their god, these murderers are predominantly from one religion.
They do now. Luckily Christianity's murders in the name of religion from the crusades to various progroms against other Christian sects not to mention non stop harassment, progroms and murders of Jews seem to have abated at last after the Northern Ireland peace agreement of very recent times.
Ask a Muslim "When will the world have peace?". The Quran states "when all the infidels are dead or have converted will the world finally have peace"... so when they say 'Peace be with you' it literally translates to: "die or convert"
Tariq Ramadan: "Islam deals with the process of going from violence to peace. You need to deal with your inner wars and tensions. You get this message in all religions, it is not unique to Islam" Believers: Only Allah is true. The Quran is the word of god. Muhammad is the final prophet. Apostasy is punishable by death. Criticism of the Prophet or the Quran is not permissible, blasphemy is punishable by death. Does anyone see the problem? Where is the path to peace in such assertions?
If you see a problem with that, then you should also extend that to all other faiths and not just Islam. Christianity was the same, same words used and repeated by priests and books if only worded differently, and I'm sure other religions are the same. For example Christianity was the similar, if not worse, in their history they were far less tolerant of different faiths and races, with riots and purges lead by fanatical priests to wipe out minorities. Only after the Reformation wars, WW1 and WW2 did we get the current version of Christianity, and even then we still struggle with the Ideas of Race and religion and bigotry exists, if only subtly. Islam is merely going through these same phases, plus has to struggle with the fact that their civilizations and societies were and are still dominated to some degree by the West, and there are no easy answers as to why it happened and what the solution is going forward. Hence all the chaos we are seeing in the middle east and the Islamic community as every person has a different answer that they believe they are right and everyone else is wrong
@@223sushi notice how u keep say was, not many people follow the Old Testament. That’s the problem with Islam, they keep and practice all of the Quran, even the parts where Muhammad became a warlord.
@@223sushi The key words being "was similar" and "in their history", just confirming that Islam is still barbaric and stuck in the cave-man era, while others have progressed.
He's a wolf in sheep's clothes..like many islamists. Never let yourself be fooled by them, their only goal is to islamize as many non-muslim countries as possible to install caliphates with sharia law. Laws invented specially to subdue atheists, Christians and other religions.
Do you mean Atheism like China the USSR, Vietnam, North Korea that killed millions of people for no reason, or Christianity that burned millions in inquisitions?
@@Brammy007a My dear friend you don't have any idea about what those countries did in the name of Atheism just type Lysenkoism in your search engine , this was a campaign is the USSR where they killed biologists who just thought mendelian laws of genetics that are (valid clue against the evolution of species) famous biologists and thousands of biology teachers were killed, Lenin by himself when he came to power in the name of Atheism killed all religious figures he could that could find in order to stop the spreading of religion, plus in North Korea which is an Atheist state hundreds of people are executed every year for just having a Quran or a Bible. I'm sorry for my rude answer but yes they killed in the name of Atheism more than all religions did.
@@jakewebdev6428 You may persecute religions, but that is not killing in the name of atheism. Atheism is a single response to a single question. You say there is a god (or gods) and I say I don't believe it. That's it. That is an atheist. Atheism is not a religion. It is not an organization. The reasons these maniacs in the USSR and China and N Korea persecuted people has to do with power and prejudice, not atheism as such. Mendelian laws of genetics are simply not a "valid clue against the evolution of species'. Evolution is a fact. Evolution and speciation driven by natural selection is also an observed and demonstrable fact. Do you not agree?
@@Brammy007a Talking about evolution this is a Big word that is misunderstood is it the Chemical evolution that Atheist biologist still have no direct interpretation that originates life from Proteins to organisms to cells with different or the Darwinian evolution that links similarities between species both are according to me invalid and pushed for no valid reason except for promoting Atheism unfortunately 😢 as they famous biologist Francis Collins who developed the genome project and is a man of faith who brought many contributions to humanity contrary to Charles Darwin and Steffen Hawking and Lawrence Krauss who brought nothing that humanity could benefit from except pseudoscience and philosophies said "One of the greatest tragedies of our time is the impression that has been created that science and religion have to be at war". I'm going to come from the beginning as to cut the problem from the root as in computing we say from the building blocks of the bytecode 💻🤓 Even thought I studied Biology and Chemistry. First of all it has been proven that Chemical evolution has never Taken place on earth because the conditions in earth a billion years ago (Gasses, pressure...) could not produce proteins so they said "life came threw an asteroid". Secondly the example given in the petri box towards the resistance of the bacteria is an example of a "mutation" and not evolution we all know that mutation takes places and despairs quickly. Thirdly the cell needs many third parties such as the ARN to be able replicate DNA nowadays the royal society doubled the reward for the first person who will bring a self replicating DNA strand which is impossible because viruses are the simplest forms of organisms and yet they cannot replicate on their own that's why it's attacking us 😷, the cell in itself has other complex organism that have a relation of exchange like mitochondria that is an independent organism with it's own DNA that decays Glucose to pyruvate threw Glycose which Evolutionists say it has been domesticated, just the fine tuning and how ions H+ are thrown away from the cell threw other organisms so that H+ ions do not overflow the cell are a great example of intelligent design. For Darwinian evolution and pay attention carefully we are talking about the evolution of species that means from a monkey (the great ape) to human and all what came before , just look at the karyotype of human DNA we have 46 chromosomes chimpanzees have 48 so how could we get rid of the two? or how the chimpanzee gained the two? or how that difference of number occurred ? knowing that the meiosis occurs is a complex mechanism. Those are just valid scientific arguments and facts against the chemical evolution if you want to talk about the Darwinian evolution and why it's false and invalid in that case I'm prepared to respond by scientific arguments. I hope you'll come to the truth and escape from the dark episode of Atheism that we all have been to 🙏.
If you have to debate whether a religion is peaceful, it’s probably not peaceful…
Is that a quote from someone, if not I think you have a quote there :D
This reasoning seems to imply that the moment somebody calls for a debate they automatically win.
instead of "probably" I'd use "most likely"
@@Herodotus77 Yeah but how many debates have you seen about whether the Jains have a peaceful religion or not?
@@KyleACarmon History bears this out, yes
Simple question. In how many countries with a Muslim majority would this debate even be allowed?
1 maybe
Not many, if any, but we're having it for them. The power of technology means that anyone can access it if they really want. Many don't, but some do. The power of education is slow and can only chip away at the forces of religion but eventually it works.
@@IusedtohaveausernameIliked Incidentally, this is actually why many of their holy texts immediately teach them technophobia. Anything to keep them ignorant.
zero
Simple answer too, In Indonesia (I origin from here) moslem more 200 million ppl , malaysia as well nothing new to do inter religion discussion or debate like this in fun, respect and friendly environment
Islam is so peaceful that christopher hitchens cant roam freely in a islamic country but Mr Ramadan can freely exist in any Christian majority country....
It's peaceful when you stay tf off their land. Why does he need to freely roam a land he doesn't belong in?
What, you think Muslims can freely live in Israel? Are you riding a short bus rn?
@@lolmanyeah1 muslims dont belong in us uk you mean
@@lolmanyeah1yeah tbf that's a very good point
Muslims deserve ridicule for following a delusional pedophile . End of story
Does anyone else wish that we had Christopher Hitchens right now? What an articulate thinker.
I miss Hitchens, he was brilliant
I get the sentiment, but I think it's misguided. If you like a speaker/whatever so much, then try and emulate him.
The same goes for other popular historical figures.
we still have alex o conner and genetically modified skeptic😊
Not really....he supported the immoral lie and Iraq war that killed millions.
@@thomasbayer1843what's misguided about saying "that person's mix of experiences and intellect would be valuable right now." Emulating someone doesn't bring that person back to life, lol - it just brings your perspective into focus.
I respect the fact that when Hitchens knew he was on borrowed time, he used it to make as many public appearances as possible within the limits of his health to voice his opposition to religious fanaticism, instead of just resting and spending time with his family and friends.
He was at the top of his form until the very end, and that's the best tribute possible to him.
Agreed, well said.
Only to discover that he was wasting his time debating a fake prophet, double-faced serial rapist like Ramadan.
@@honeybabou6119 Whoa, dial it down there, Babou. I think that Tariq is extremely unctuous and dishonest here in his arguments, but if you are going to accuse him of being a serial rapist, can you post links to news articles or accusations by former victims of his alleged assaults? That's a fair request, isn't it?
@Greg Brown No problem. I'm French and Ramadan is very famous there so his legal troubles were/are a very big thing.
@@honeybabou6119 Nah it's far from a waste of time. Not only is this guy a monster, he's a monster who can't even fake a coherent worldview. Both his person and his ideas are repudiated, and I think that is a more complete victory.
Guys, don't worry about losing Hitchens. I found him only a few months ago and he's changed my worldview and I'd say my life. Even in death, he's doing more for me than many who are alive. What is death when you truly lived? Love from Nigeria.
It's weird when you find anybody that makes an influence on you and then you find out they are dead, I went through the same thing with Hitchens. It honestly feels like he could still be alive just based on the fact that I probably would never see him anyways
His thoughts,his books and audiobooks, his utter greatness and fierce intellect will live forever more.... Lenore (I am fading here,the raven from Edgar Allan Poe narrated by Christopher Lee on TH-cam is absolutely necessary to hear!) CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS RIP AND MAY EVERYONE SPREAD THE WORD AND KNOWLEDGE WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL IN THESE VERY CHALLENGING TIMES!!!!
Ex-Muslim antitheist here from Pakistan. I left this evil 7th century cult in 2016. One of the best decisions of my life. Glad I'm not part of this evil and barbaric cult anymore
Very well written Eja and Christopher thanks you post hum and surely would have been touched by the gratitude for your absolute kindness and yes, his ideas and his fierce intellect will live forever !!!
@@christophervolk6087 that was undoubtedly his strength,no doubt about that!!!your voice and many others totally reflects his point of view,he surely would have been touched by all this kindness because Christopher was absolutely kind in the first place without any political attachment,no, just being genuine and smart (as in knowledge)!!! he's surely missed but by no means forgotten!!!!⛅
10 years later, Mr. Hitchens was and is Right
Ramadan was prosecuted in 2018 in Switzerland for multiple rapes. In 2023 total was 5. He is finish
well they turned out to be the less barbaric side ...by far
@@WilliamTyndale007lol not like Israel has a moral leg to stand on
@@Maxibo234thats called a deflection.
@@Maxibo234you must be an abdool
When Hitchens says "Demands that you believe the impossible do not lead to peaceful outcomes.”, he is offering a tidy version of Voltaire who once said "Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.”
Absolute rubbish. He never once said that. It was actually three times (possibly 4).
Pretty much. And that is the context in which he made the statement. Voltaire.
Christopher Hitchens was a brilliant man, sorely missed
We miss you Hitch
Tariq Ramadan's Example of Turkey as a secular democracy aged horribly.
unfortunately
Anything related to religion ages horribly.
@@WVK23 touché. Religion talks the most about "GOD", but produces the most ungodly societies.
Turkey still is a secular democracy what are you babbling about.
@@izzomoses7994 the more Islamist turkey becomes the more it slips down. 2012- 88 in democratic index, now at 110. It's now hoping to showcase itself as the leader of the islamic state. Wikipedia remains banned...press has very limited freedom, 'insulting erdogan' amounts to almost blasphemy...Thousands are in jail or on trial for bogus terrorism charges...Turkey would rate at the very last in democratic index, yet some people would say it's 'still a democracy'. Religion poisons everything especially monotheisms.
Eight adult Muslim women have filed rape charges against Tariq Ramadan. It takes extraordinary courage for a Muslim female to accuse her rapist. Her culture and religion blame her for her own sexual assault. I wonder how many other victims have remained silent.
u have a source for that?
@@TheOneTrue_SadmanGoogle…
@@TheOneTrue_Sadman It's all there on the Wikipedia page about Tariq Ramadan. And you can't say it some kind of Islamophobic attack. Muslim women filed the charges. Tariq's defense against the rape charges is that it was consensual sex. That makes eight adultery charges from a expert on Islam.
@@annegreengables6367
Which means 8 woman can loose their lives.
@@TheOneTrue_Sadman"and in October 2020, Ramadan was formally charged with raping a fifth woman."
Wikipedia source: Tariq Ramadan visé par une cinquième mise en examen pour viol". Le Monde.fr (in French). 23 October 2020. Archived from the original on 24 October 2020. Retrieved 24 October 2020.
Mr.Hitchens already warn us since 10 years ago,..but many still asleep until now.
10 years ago is still 20-30 years too late.
bloody west shame on you and this bullshit piece aka hitchens has advocted for destruction of whole country IRAQ . while debating either islam is peaceful or not you people have shown your true face as power hungary nihilistic individuals who have long history of violence killing 135 million red indians than 80 million in ww2 and now 5 million+ in post 9 11 wars and presently in gaza...how dare you to judge us on peace you dont deserve to sit with us....
That’s what makes me the most frustrated. This man warned us so much, but people are too ignorant. See universities right now and the protests. Hitchens wouldn’t be happy at all
Does anybody else fast-forward to hear Christopher and not this lunatic Muslim
Professor Ramadam sounds like a defense attorney trying to save a guilty man from being executed.
And knows he is gonna loose.
😂 and even before the verdict is read deep down he doesn't care what the judge thinks.
Such a good analogy 😂
Lmao
Before going to prison for rape.
What a giant of a man! You will be sorely missed, Mr. Hitchens.
Exactly!!!....A True Voice of Reason, and Logic....in a chaotic world
@@RomanAquilaNothing logical at all about Christopher, a low IQ moron.
He is gone, but do not despair. Uphold the mantle. It is a many-arrowed burden but those of us that bear it know the weightlessness of reason despite our armor. Tread forth in his name.
I am crying now literaiiy. He truly is missed. Oh Hitchins the voice of reason.
Yes.
"Demands that you believe the impossible, do not lead to peaceful outcome." Damn, that's a strong line.
the religion does not make these demands. its human custodians do that. religion neither good or bad. rather, it is both. evil is necessary to measure good - and vica versa.
No one said Religion is peaceful there😀
@@TheAdamwest29 why is religion good and bad, who told you that, and why should I believe it, where is the proof? People are good and bad, it has nothing to do with religion. Religion is a weapon for mass manipulation, there is no proof of any religious claims has ever happened.
@@Boobobear Can't you accept them as they are
@@TheAdamwest29 "the religion does not make these demands. its human custodians do that"
There is no religion outside the minds of humans.
A religion that has an aim to convert the entire world to follow Islam only says how peaceful it is. This claim alone is says it’s lack of respect for all non believers
But that is nothing new in Christianity; it was no different 400 years ago. The difference is that Islam has not been around as long as Christianity. Becoming an atheist as a Christian is much easier than if you are born a Muslim or Mormon. It is not a free decision.
@@AcidGubba Biggest difference is there hasn't been a Muslim analogue to Martin Luther, who has the balls to reform the religion and do so in a populist way. WITHIN the perimeter of the religion.
Then people would be less hostile.
The way u say it makes it sound like Islam teaches to force people into Islam.... But that's not the case
Islam is only asking you to worship God alone and don't worship your desires and devils, Islam is not new the idea of one God is everywhere in all religious books including in Hinduism
@@sensibleenergy Islam is telling, not asking
Having watched all these debates at the time, it's great to see them getting a fresh audience over a decade later. Watching him get ill and die in real time was horrendous, he was a bit of hero of mine at the time. What was staggering was how he was able to maintain his whit, charm, humour and immense rhetorical skills right up to the end. He was a shadow of his former self physically, but the mind was still extraordinary.
Even in death he’s a beacon of intellectuality that’s inspiring young people like myself to do better everyday. It staggers the mind to think that most of what he put forth in his lifetime still rings true. Hitchens is the man.
I too grew up as a slightly younger contemporary of Hitch. And every time his odious brother opens his mouth, or pens his latest vitriol, apologia or misplaced belief he was a fraction of his sibling - I lament the death of the wrong Hitchins.
@@rick-potts Have you by any chance seen the first hitchens vs hitchens debate from 99? I too have long held a deep dislike for Peter and was surprised to see, he does indeed have a sense of humour. It's one of the few videos of Peter in which didn't leave me with a dull ache in my jaw.
Indeed. What's great about this debate is how even his Muslim opponent can't help but laugh or smile at several points in response to Hitchens' charismatic points.
So true.@@rick-potts
"Turkey is on it's way to women rights and out of theocracy“
That aged well
Omega oof
sigh
We're one of the first countries that gave women rights to be chosen as presidents.They may continue slandering us,but the fact is clear.
@@myk1137 that was before erdogan buddy. Turkey and Iran both share similarities in that they where pretty progressive until the violent troglodytes took over. Iran seems like it could come back anytime now though. Idk about turkey.
@@myk1137 pretty sad things have devolved.
Tariq is an expert at talking without actually saying anything.
@truth searcher Tariq is the master of incoherence and bullshit.
He was found guilty in multiple charges of rape, some against minors
Exactly. He and his type, are so frustrating.
Very typical of religious folks
@@reddevil211287 His "type" are muslims. Watch ANY muslim apologists, even the lauded Hijab. It's pure rhetoric, with varying degrees of sophistication, very highly observable in Hijab's case, but pure rhetoric and no substance. It is the appeal to idiocy and ignorance fallacy that all religious apologists use in makign a point. And it makes me fume
As someone raised Muslim and now atheist, i know intricate details about islam , the consusual history and the unheard truthfully one. It is absolutely spot on for Hitchens on every single point and even more. It's the worse ideology ever created by mankind, worse than Nazism and fascism. And my only hope - though i will be long gone - is that it will eventually be trimmed down and become cultural as Christianity. After all, Christianity had 600 years over islam. Although given the fundamental pillars of islam, i find this doubtful without bloodshed.
And trust me when i say this, there is worse stuff within the Qur'an, Hadiths and islamic history that is almost impossible to comprehend and understand if you are not a native Arabic speaker or you have spent your entire life studying it. Things that are horrific and mostly unspoken as the western receiver will not be able to understand even in translation. The book is even worse than what the worst atheist critique makes it be.
@@Ososmd spot on
The problem is Christianity only very recently ‘trimmed itself down’, and only because its societies allowed it to happen.
Islamic countries need to WANT to modernize.
But even then: Christianity doesn’t have explicit phrases like killing a Jew is a sure fire way to heaven. The Quran does.
I don’t think Islam can be reformed unless it’s completely changed….it needs something akin to a Protestant movement, or it will continue down the regressive path. With Arab states constantly looking at Israel in both admiration and disgust without diagnosing how to become more like them instead of idiotic ambitions of destruction.
@@Ososmdoh I am well aware. It’s why the most hardened Zionists in the tribe are those whom are Mizrachi (eg: from Arab countries). The intolerance isn’t overnight. It’s been for many centuries.
Even when Iran was ‘tolerant’ for example most Iranian Jews hid their identities to avoid random pogroms and difficulties in trade/commerce.
@@HarisAhmed-dm6te literally read Hamas’ charter for starters lol. Unfortunately there’s a lot of censorship on comments here and I don’t want to waste time posting things that just get shadowbanned. You’ll need to google it yourself.
Sometimes words of people like Hitchens is a slow burn. I remember watching this video almost 10 years ago and at the time I was a believer of Islam (come from a moderate family) , but as the years rolled by thanks to the Internet and others like Hitchens, the fog of programming since childhood started to fade and now has been cleared up. Thank you Hitchens!
Same for me with Christianity. I can't believe I wasted so many years believing in a fairy tale.
what made you leave Islam?
@@hamzakamran2485 personally, although i watch christopher hitchen occasionaly and other atheist debaters, I do not think I will leave Islam for anything.
@@TurkiAlbaqami cool. enjoy defending muhammad's r8pe of aisha at 9
@@ImUpYourArse the liberal west that you all give your right arm to immigrate to. Yeah! :))
How does one identify a religion of peace ? It’s extreme practitioners would be extremely peaceful.
@ali bazzi may I ask. I've seen some muslims claiming that "islamic states" as in incorporating islam into the laws are actually not what islam aspires to have (A journalist, Mehdi Hassan wrote about it). Do you agree with that? To what extent is shariah law a part of Islam? Does "islamic type of government" exist in Quran at all?
@@piratassarajevo4293 Tbh most muslims aren't taught enough about their religion.
I am actually studying Fiqh (islamic jurisprudence) in Cape Town, S. Africa. Most muslims are not middle-easterners. Point being that Islam is both a world wide religion and it has a history that rivals any of the older religions in complexity.
I'm going to say some things and I will elaborate on each that anyone wants more information on.
Although there were many Muslim countries, none were Islamic states.
There is misunderstanding on the meaning of sharia, it is not Islamic law. Sharia is a metaphorical description that encompasses how a Muslim should live their lives.
Muslims are okay with western laws, until in stops us from expressing our faith and love of God
The Quran was not a comprehensive book. Similarly in physics, in Islamic theology it's as if the content is purposefully incomplete. It is implied that although there is a good path, the Quran doesn't touch on why's, how's and what's about the stuff it says. Not because there aren't reasons but because it's our Jeehad to figure it out
Meaning that, as of now any muslim Scholar House does not lay claim to having a universal Sharia or even Fiqh
@@muhammadedwards8425 so in reality, it's better to keep the state secular (even when the majority is muslim) since islam doesnt really stipulate how the government+law should be established? And shariah is the product of cultures+different interpretations rather than a fixed guideline from quran....am I understanding it correctly?
@@saadidrissi3181 Firstly, Sharia literally means the straightest path to a source of fresh water. It is metaphorical for 'the way one should live their life'. And there is no agreed upon Sharia, the way people use the word now.
Secondly, I mentioned most muslims don't know enough about the history of the practitioners of Islam and about Islamic concepts in general. Therefore, using their opinions on law is not a indicator of the religion itself.
Also contrary to the opinions of those muslims, Islamic scholars have a long tradition of legal pluralism. Meaning different laws apply to different groups in society. Christendom follows Christian law etc. until two groups are involved. I think many muslims might be more open with this idea if they knew about their history
Lastly, I mentioned metaphorical basis', the Quran is not a scientific book of miracles. No muslim scholar of the Quran who does his work would believe that because that does not correlate with the reasoning for it being revealed
l don't think any religion is totally peaceful. Sorry, there is one, Jainism.
As a Greek person I could not find anything more offensive than Mr Tariq Ramadan’s claim of the diversity and culturally accepting environment under the Ottoman Empire. Mr Ramadan would do well with further reading about the tyranny, slavery, genocide and atrocities committed on the communities of Greek, Pontiac, Kurdish, Armenian and various other inhabitants who occupied the land PRIOR to the invasion. Terms such as slavery and forced conversion must have skipped Mr Ramadans vocabulary.
Yes the Ottoman Empire, just like any empire is nothing to be proud of, or aspire to. We are meant to learn from history and not repeat it. The average man or woman is peaceful until they are Instigated by harm, but they have the restraint to deal with it in a humanitari way. Unless thay are corrupted by teachings such as religion which instructs them on how to deal with such situations which can twist their inate moral compass.
Im from Kosovo and I can confirm you are brainwashed and bringing forth a revised version of history meant to topple the Ottoman empire.
Greeks speak Greek.
Greeks are orthodox Christians.
Greeks still have their own culture.
Greeks have their own churches and schools.
This was true for 1200y.
Then Europe and liberalism came.
Look at Greece now. What a shitstain on the planet. Im not sure whether im in frikkin Spain or Greece.
Stop believing your brainwashed grandparents or white supremecists revisional historians. Read a frikkin book about facts and form your own opinions.
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻💯%
Ειλικρινά έχω μείνει μαλακας, συγγνώμη για την έκφραση, με τη τοποθέτηση του τύπου. Ολόκληρα τα Βαλκάνια ματωσαν κατά την περίοδο της Τουρκοκρατίας και είναι εξοργιστικο όταν διάφοροι "ιστορικοί" προσπαθούν να πείσουν τον κόσμο ότι οι βαρβαρότητες των Οθωμανών δεν έγιναν ποτέ. Ευτυχώς ο Hitchens τον έβαλε στη θέση του. 👌
This isn't the case at all! If greeked really were treated as you describe, there wouldn't be any orthodox greeks left, isn't. The present proves his point. But offcourse as people always do, afterwards people who realy were not treated that bad for that time in history, start to invent their own history as they want to perceive it. This is mostly politicaly motivated.
Man do we need him today, RIP Chris ❤️
I think he would be both horrified and saddened if he was still around today as our governments have welcomed this cult and sold us all down the river.
bloody west shame on you and this bullshit piece aka hitchens has advocted for destruction of whole country IRAQ . while debating either islam is peaceful or not you people have shown your true face as power hungary nihilistic individuals who have long history of violence killing 135 million red indians than 80 million in ww2 and now 5 million+ in post 9 11 wars and presently in gaza...how dare you to judge us on peace you dont deserve to sit with us....
He'd have been mocked and ridiculed to the point normies see his name and cringe.
Doesn't matter how smart you are or how reasonable your logic is, the media controls who see's it and how they see it.
@@Waywind420 you don’t seem to read a lot of books… is the media like CNN and Fox News your only source of information to make that statement? I hope you go out and get a book of each of the greats including Hitchens
@@thefallengallery6459 I don't read books, I have no interest in books.
I listen to podcasts, debates, and I trawl through news articles, wiki's and threads.
I don't have any particular loyalty to any media company, but I recognize that some major publications are incredibly inaccurate, bias and misinforming (I'm looking at you Guardian UK)
People need to cut out these comments like: "We need Hitchens today!" No, we don't - what we really need: That you and me step in his footsteps, fighting for truth ourselves. And to raise another generation who will speak the truth once we are gone. The Hitch is dead - and if we'd really understand him (and other great thinkers), we would not mourn but take matters into our hands.
Well said!
Well said! Civilised peoples everywhere need to embrace reason over dogma!
excellent comment
Right on!
I think his friends and family might disagree.
Even battling cancer, Hitch still thinks on his feet and demonstrates his vast knowledge and towering intellect. Miss you Hitch.
He was always intellectually shallow and retarded.
A bully who should be laughed at and be thrown into the dustbin of History where he belongs.
@@TheEverFreeKing 🤣🤣🤣 so Ramadan speaks a bunch of gibberish, asks you to ignore evidence and you eat it up because his "argument" agrees with your skewed and narrow world view. Talk about shallow and laughable 🤣🤣🤣
The old Islamophobe and misogynist Hitchens.
@@akashsom8357
The logic can only be understood by logical people. I don't guess your very logical.
BTW, I don't waste time watching flies on garbage cans. Sounds like a hobby for you.
I miss him too, terribly.
Ramadan’s comment about a moderate Turkey did not age well
ikr
@NazTdawg UK abdools? u must be a CP's crybaby fan.
watch CP busted: th-cam.com/video/NiKl7kVFIco/w-d-xo.html
Nor did Tariq's reputation as a scholar
Turkey's going just fine as it is. It's biggest problem is it's economy.
@@muhammadedwards8425 may Allah help erdogan and imran fix their country's economies.
ameen.
I just realised this episode is over 10yrs old!!!! We knew about this 10years already, still 💯 relevant, wow, legend
Christopher is a genius taken far too soon.
In other 10 years we’ll probably be making comments about it being 20yrs old yet, politically, the landscape is still unchanged
Will Smith's Oscar slap may have been heard around the world, but the Hitch slap is heard from beyond the grave. RIP.
"Hitch Slap" LMAO 🤣🤣😂😂
@@Dark_Force_Of_Wishes search for _Hitch Slap_ on TH-cam. Hours of entertainment!
@@magnetiktrax That's Assault. Hitchens Assaulted People By Slapping Them.
Hope it reaches and resounds the nut in the grave dead somewhere in the middle east.
@@Dark_Force_Of_Wishes You're assaulting people online with your stupidity.
Rather have a HitchSlap.
Christopher hitchens (peace be upon him) was an absolute gem to society. Forever missed.
may the gods feed him honey!
Worms are upon him...but i see your point!!!
What He is eating is sweet alright, sweet to those who he abused and accused of wrongdoing.
He talked rubbish.
No, you just couldn't understand him.
Christopher Hitchens was an intellectual giant. His knowledge of history, politics was unmatched. This guy mentioned Turkey and Hitchens cornered him within seconds, telling him about Cyprus occupation, Kurds rights, Armenian genocide. He was in a league of his own, sorely missed.
He'd be horrified of trump's betrayal of the Kurdish people as we are.
@@thedoctor.a.s1401 How exactly did Trump betray the Kurdish people? Was it like when Obama let them be conquered by ISIS?
@@asdfjklol man American right wing people are so dumb I don't even understand
E RR Trump is a moron while Obama is a intellectual giant. Makes youa moron also!
That is because you are bias and you don't know the real facts of history. So whatever bulish invented facts, Mr. Hitchens comes up with, you really like to swallow it.
Citing Turkey as a Muslim country liberalizing has aged like milk.
Tru Dat!
As well as Hitchens warning about letting Islamist in to your country and then being too afraid to stand up to them. We are seeing that come to a head recently too.
@@1984isnotamanualyou can blame leftist progressives for that.
@@1984isnotamanualyou mean age like wine? Because that is precisely what is happening, and in addition showcasing to westerners that most of Islam hasn’t been able to wrestle with the fact that minority groups deserve representation (whereas Christians have reluctantly)
@@1984isnotamanual that reference aged well for hitchens
Mr Ramadan says many Muslims are people of peace. He never tries to show that Islam is a religion of peace.
@@laminoor566what 💀💀
@@laminoor566 The commenter is pointing out the hypocrisy of Mr. Ramadan's conjecture, in the realm of actions speak louder than ancient written words.
The true form of Islam is to act kind. Most moslems forget about a word 'Akhlak' that means good attitude. This.. is, actually, the main Mohammad message. But, many of them seems to forgetting it and too focused on sins/worship issues. And not about social relationship between individuals.
Islam, even in it's communal form, actually very individual based religion. I mean, you need to fix yourself first before looking outside. Judging, prejudice, and in this case... Feeling 'holier' than others is also a sin.
Why do muslims keep assuming their religion existed before Christianity 😂 This liar sneaked it in at 46:00 and then covered it by other issues which is often their Dawah tactics when debating for their religion of lies.
bloody west shame on you your country and this bullshit piece aka hitchens has advocted for destruction of whole country IRAQ . while debating either islam is peaceful or not you people have shown your true face as power hungary nihilistic individuals who have long history of violence killing 135 million red indians than 80 million in ww2 and now 5 million+ in post 9 11 wars and presently in gaza...how dare you to judge us on peace you dont deserve to sit with us....
1:13:48 that's a piss poor point from Tariq. For example, something like 75% of British Muslims believe that the Danish artist who drew a cartoon of the prophet Mohammed should be criminally prosecuted and over half of British Muslims believe that homosexuality should be outlawed. This is DESPITE the fact they are living in a completely different country with vastly different cultural values, yet they still hold these rather disturbing thoughts mostly true.
Religion is the cause of all that is negative.
Are you really worried about a cartoon??? Really are you 4 years old?
@@markadkins1225 Am I worried about a cartoon?
Mark Adkins no we are not worried about a cartoon we are worried that there is a huge amount of people willing to fucking kill over a cartoon and want the people who drew it in JAIL OR DEAD. In 2020. In a modern country. It’s fucking barbaric
In the whole debate u found one poor point from tareq, great job but i found more than 8 illogical statements came from ur scholar's mouth so no need to mention such stuff and stop picking sides.
The Islamic man is very emotional in his approach. Hitchens crystal clear and logical in his thinking. They are definately not equal in this debate.
Certainly Tariq had good points, islam fundamentally is wicked, but certainly the perception of the believers is adapting to secular standards so i think that it will end up like Christianity, with people that can question the religion adn the worst that you can get is having to deal with an angry Karen
@@DarthVaderfrif you need to rerhink your religion and make fundamental changes to it. Then that in itself makes it nonsense.
He struggled to contain his anger behind a very thin veil.
@@DarthVaderfr you do know that there are much worse things to come of christianity than the occasional angry mom right??
Have you seen the Monty Python team dismantle a very suspect christian bishop? #lifeofbrian
The comment section is full of very astute observations.
That's refreshing !
Thank you !
Tariq Ramadan is a Swiss Muslim academic, philosopher, and writer. He was a professor of contemporary Islamic studies at St Antony's College, Oxford and the Faculty of Theology and Religion, University of Oxford, but as of 2018 is taking an agreed leave of absence due to being held in prison following two rape allegations
He has since been acquitted of one of those allegations by a court in Geneva. (Comment edited to reflect ongoing allegations).
@@will-ellington He has been acquitted of one charge, there are yet four outstanding charges against him (as well as other allegations related to the rape charges, but not themselves rape charge). He's not coming back to Oxford, that's for certain.
@@ericforsyth My apologies. You are indeed correct. I will redact my comment accordingly.
It’s very obvious he is Swiss from all those holes in his arguments.
@@MobBarley00didn't expect a cheese analogy here. Lol. I was serious and stoic reading the comments in this thread and you made me laugh. Thanks.
"Islamophobia" is a smoke-screen term.
Having a phobia means having an irrational fear.
But fearing Islam which wants 80% of humanity enslaved or exterminated is totally rational.
Hence, you cannot call this a phobia.
100%
Yup.
it's common sense, survival, rational, and also a love gesture when you see an agitated child that invade your peace, you teach him to stop and focus for a while. that's what will happen to Islam at one point
Excellent argument! I'm going to remember this.
Spot on
Ramadan refuses to directly answer questions. He just goes on and on and completely avoids the question.
Which question ? I can give you the answer.
@ what are talking about? Can you be clear please and say exactly what you want to say ?
@ Ramadhan is a brother in humanity and we share the same belief.
As would you if you had to defend failed & stagnating societies blinded by medieval beliefs.
@@BeppeRGDL true
Christopher Hitchens was like family…… Your sorely missed Sir !!
When Ramadan was asked about Sharia Law, he answered with a whole lot of nothing.
His entire performance was _A whole lot of nothing._
His best defense was addressed before he even said it, when Hitchens stayed up front that claiming the “bad” Muslims, ARENT _real Muslims._ They misread the text and are practicing “anti-Islam” he claimed. In reality, if you read the Quran, Sira, and Hadiths, you will with absolute certainty quickly find conscription to murder or subjugate other humans.
imagine my surprise
Did ramadan really say it's a tiny minority of clerics that believe in the death penalty for homosexuality, apostasy, etc?
I'd love to see this supported with facts.
Once again, the religion is peaceful. It's just that all of these Muslim majority countries keep getting it wrong somehow.
@@Abhnv1337 your reference doesn't exist, can you provide a link so we can verify your claims?
@@Abhnv1337 still waiting for you to provide a link, and what does it say in the Qur'an about apostasy?
If it is a religion of peace why are their extremist not extremily peaceful
even the most peaceful religions have radicals. Even hindus
@@TheTurbanator123 What do extremist buddhists do? Not suicide bombing lmao.
The extremely peaceful muslims you talk about lead humble life’s in this dunya, you won’t ever hear about them. SubhanAllah may everyone find peace and the truth Alhamdulillah Salamu alaykum warahmatullahi wa barakatuh.
@@Zoykzmc They have massacred many muslims in Myanmar for example
First look at the extremists in your own environment/country
I just noticed he wore a pin representing the flag of the 1956 hungarian revolution. It just goes to show he was a true humanitarian speaking up against tyranny be it political, theological or both. The world is poorer without him.
Hitchens is talking about islam and Ramadan is talking about his idea of islam
“Islam is a religion of peace” he affirmed raising his voice in a loud threatening way
Because he was slightly raising his voice it means he was threatening? I have seen many of Ramadan's lectures and that is just one of his traits of speaking. It is called passion for the field he works in. Nothing to do with 'threatening'. Kind of sad even that people like you try to poison people with hate while Ramadan has dedicated his life to do his best to create an understanding between people. It shows the contrast between people like you and mr Ramadan and who are the real hateful people
@@rememberpalestine-uyghurs-2918 hahaha cool story bro 😎
😁😄😃😅🤣
@@rememberpalestine-uyghurs-2918 Why religion at all? What possible advantage is there in any religion? With religions I see nothing more than keeping people in line, somewhere, somehow. With Islam its mainly women.
@@toni4729 There's so much arrogance and ignorance in this comment. I can say so many things in response... First thing i want to say at this comment, who are you to ask people why they are religious or not? In the same way i can question you. "why atheism"? Mao and Stalin were atheists, and they were the ones who have massacred more people in their lifetime than many religious wars troughout the centuries combined. It's not up to atheists to question muslims about their beliefs, rather it is the contrary.
It's sometimes extraordinarily difficult to listen to Mr Ramadan without wondering why he does not mention that the perfect man and final prophet, who consummated a marriage with a nine-year old child, also dealt in slavery and spread his message by the sword.
Exactly. Their prophet was a pedophile and warmonger. And the scary thing is they think of him as THE PERFECT MAN.
Yes, those juicey details never get bought up.
Not forgetting his 4 pending rape charges, one upon a disabled girl. It's in his Wiki.
Prophet Muhammad and his companions freed thousands of slaves, Aisha was documented a mature, menstruating woman, every battle or campaign was defensive in nature. Try again. Your anti-Islamic polemics and apologetics of Hitchens or Harris is laughably pathetic and astonishingly ignorant!
@@TheBeyonderYT😂😂 You’re talking like you know about the Qur’an, please do show the ‘gems’ of the Qur’an that would make anyone leave Islam…
Btw, to all of you, child marriage was normal centuries ago, barely 100 years ago in most countries the age of consent was 12… So y’all have no problem with 12 years olds getting married but you do for 9 years old? Humans change, and so do their morality, but that doesn’t mean we should judge past communities with our morality of today, that is simply ignorant to do so.
Mr. Ramadan's speech is almost substance free although he is good at making it sound as though he says something meaningful. Stark contrast to Hitchens on the first point.
Because all Muslim apologists like Tariq can never and will never directly address the issues of Islam that Hitchens brings up. For all their fluffy wonderful talk about Islam's values of peace, spirituality and family, all of this stuff is used as a shield to hide and deflect the fact that Islam endorses values that are intolerant, authoritarian and violent.
Violence is to be expected when you attack nation upon nation on baseless facts I.E fake claims of WMDs in Iraq, killing millions of innocent people also occupying a nation that welcomed you to their land in Palestine from being oppressed by nazi Germany to being the same thing you run away from to those that welcomed you.
Hypocrisy is very strong within must western world you can’t expect to take a number 2 around the world then be surprised when you don’t flush what you did will come back in some form thanks to the wind.
Hitchens stance is mostly humrous and at times mocking picking bits and pieces here and there and that's what people like but Mr Ramadan has refuted it beautifully on ground realities.
RIP Hichens
Tbf any religious apologizer doesn't stand a chance against him, muslim or christian
@@ypjoebali96379 drop one point Mr Tariq made
if islam is a religion of peace then try conducting this debate in a islamic country
Moreover: try to conduct this debate inside of a Muslim institution even in the west.
Instead it’s in a Jewish one in the west. Lol
You are right we can't do it inside Islamic countries because we all agree and we don't need to debate with each other about Islam.
You may say: you can't do it because you will be killed.well this is not the problem of Islam but Muslims.
Christopher Hitchens was a phenomenally intelligent man and an absolutely brilliant man to debate people on this subject........ and probably anything else as well. He is sorely missed.
It's too bad his brother is such an idiot though
Not by everyone
@@mrpeterson1481 Ouch
@@mrpeterson1481double ouch
He was just a bitter man who like making blanketed arguments. He was perhaps a master of bitter generalization.
If it was a religion of peace then wouldn't the extremists be extremely 'peaceful'?
The extremists doing things from their minds u can’t find it in quran or sunnah
@@a.a.7903 Quran: “And when the sacred months are passed, kill those who join other gods with God wherever ye shall find them; and seize them, besiege them, and lay wait for them with every kind of ambush.”
@@a.a.7903 Wrong they teach the book to the letter and some are abominable in every sense of the word. The example below is just one. Look as an atheist, if muslims got together and reformed the book it would do a lot of good the same as the Christians did with the old testament and new. I find them all absurd but it would be a good start. Some research shows the Muslim religion to actually be a giant lie since there are giant holes in the story made about the main character - by one man, 2 centuries after the main character died. For example he was written about some 2 centuries later and Mecca didn't exist when claimed. time points do not add up since many Mosques point to Petra completely redefining the entire tale with the location of the main character and his origins being in question.
@Non Mon (sigh) Yes...I knew this....but my point is it's not surprising how many fundamentalists take this verse quite literally not to mention the verse doesn't sound very peaceful no matter what the context is.
@Non Mon So...again (to my 1st point) if it were a religion of peace wouldn't the extremists be extremely peaceful?
If a religion or philosophy is so complicated and obtuse that people can mistake it's peacefulness for intolerance, it appears we have an enormous problem no matter who the people are believing it.
Very well said
The problem is not the complexity of the religion, but the simplistic and light way people deal with it .
The problem is not the complexity of the religion, but the simplistic and light way people deal with it .
@@nsibtrap8094here comes white washing sins of profile profet and his followers
YES!!! I couldn't agree more. I was thinking about that yesterday while listening to Sam Harris.
Hitchens WON this debate hands down! Brilliant man!
The moral high ground is readily available to any religion that doesn’t support roving bands of state sponsored serial killers to murder their wives,daughters and sons for disobedience to their dress code,going to school,adultery or homosexuality.
You're so simplistic. You should listen again. There's no winner or loser here. Just get beyond that black and white scheme
Thank you Christopher Hitchens for being a shining light to the world of truth and logic. You have changed my life and I appreciate the patience and resilience you faced in your life to make this world better. R.I.P: 1949-2011
well you won't thank him when you find out that god actually exist. how could anyone believe the world camed of nothing ?
@@muslim_kun it's pretty easy to believe that.
@@thesigmamale2134 if i gave u a book and told u these letters arranged them self's over billions of years to be a complete book by pure chance will u ever believe me ? then how come this complex human body and this complex universe came by pure chance instead of a designer. if there is no god u and i will end the same way Dust. but if there is god u will wish u were a believer or end as dust.
@@muslim_kun that is a false analogy. Because two things share the quality of complexity doesn't mean both have a desinger behind it. In other words while the book and the universe are complex we can't assume the universe has a designer simply because one has one.
@@thesigmamale2134 not a false analogy because u can't give me one thing that could come from nothing.
R.I.P Christopher Hitchens, perhaps one of the best modern writers to oppose the injustices brought on by religion. We still miss you :(
The Hitch was awesome!
+AbconTv
Don't be disgusting , get the fuck out of here
+AbconTv Well, he can't because there is no such thing...
+AbconTv
No explain yourself. Explain your authority of the disgusting claim that the great hitchens is in hell. If hell were to exist and hitchens was there , I'd go.
+AbconTv "Just trying to make your days alittle bit joyful :)"
BURN IN HELL!
Lolol. Joyful, he calls himself.
Love from India !! True hero hitch!!
I truly loved this man and prayed for him everyday. I missed my chance to meet him in the early 2000s. My daughter obtained his book and he signed it. A treasure of mine. His non belief didn't make me an unbeliever. I will always admire this man!
So in your words he is burning in hell
Rather perfect. Hitch looks at the EVIDENCE .. and comes to a conclusion. The Religionist literally tells us to IGNORE evidence .. and tells us what we SHOULD see.
It’s practically a perfect example of Religion vs Reason.
I like Hitchens but also I respect Ramadan's perspective.
False. Hitchens speaks of a time when his white ancestors had infiltrated the muslim lands and caused destruction. Tariq speaks of 1200y islam where peace prospered.
@@dadush4 Wouldn't be so sure about peace, Islam started in the year 610, Ever since then it was constant civil war or war with other countries if you look at history
@@graymatter6661 youtube is eating my comment because im a bad boy using words like "genocide" what a stupid platform.
@@dadush4 ok?
Hitchens did not tolerate horseshit. I know few men with this type of courage.
Tariq Ramadan: an ex-companion testifies and denounces "moral violence"
th-cam.com/video/cI5zHhn6eq4/w-d-xo.html
@C Hill 7 Nothing courageous about "tolerating" points in a debate, unless you're indirectly asserting that Ramadan has some very well and thoughtful points which would be hard to debate against? Your horsesh*t comment makes no sense. Courageous of me to reply to it? Ha!
@@tablechair1842 "Tariq Ramadan literally threw himself on me like a wild beast", testifies Henda Ayari
th-cam.com/video/GnnFy0uFe3E/w-d-xo.html
@@georgegratindefinois4912 As I said elsewhere much further down the line than here, if that's true, it's horrible, but it wouldn't really reflect on the merits of his arguments here, just like if someone accused Hitchens of a heinous sexual assault, even if it were true, it wouldn't reflect on the validity of his arguments or lack thereof here - and I say this as someone who largely sides with Hitchens.
Allah said in the Qur'an: "Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly." Meanwhile atheists in china for example r rounding up muslim women children elderly..in the biigest brainwashing torture center in the world..
In the hadiths in Sahih Bukhari
Volume 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 258.
Narrated By Ibn 'Umar : During some of the Ghazawat of Allah's Apostle a woman was found killed, so Allah's Apostle forbade the killing of women and children. " There r many other hadiths like this one about ethics of war prohibiting torture, unlawfull killing of animals, destruction of trees, killing innocent civilans, monks in their monasteres..Meanwhile, stalline, lenine, the chinese regime, the drug cartels, the french occupation of Algeria Tunisia Mali..showed us how "peaceful" atheist secular regimes r..not to mention that most of them today sponsor the zionnist anti muslim terror in Palestine, & many secular dictators in the muslim world.
When it comes to trinitarianism, did you know when the church used to rule in the holy city, in Spain, in Serbia..what did they do? They tortured & killed all those who refused to become Trinitarians (Jews muslims ex Trinitarians..) Meanwhile in that same time muslims used to be ruled by strict shariah law resulting in the saving of the jews from the crusades in Spain & peacefull coexistence between Trinitarians jews & muslims before the Trinitarian inquisitions when the church tortured to death all non Trinitarians.
Tariq is a gift to mankind. He has the incredible ability of saying so much without any substantial meaning. He also has the inexplicable ability of changing the question to fit his own version of the answer.
A liar representing the biggest lies. It makes perfect sense to me.
The same thing can be said for Hitchens
lol, Tariq should be a politician.
funny... and true
@@Cori761 You waste your life on fiction. Hitch enjoyed his and spread rationality and critical thought. Go mumble to a wall you lemon.
I wish Christopher Hitchens was still with us...
Hitchens is alive through his works. His videos are still available in TH-cam. But in near future, TH-cam will probably take them in order to appease the Muslims who will violently demand them to be removed.
You said it my friend. Look at the state of the Western world crying out for a man like Hitchens to surface and take on our enemies and were he still with us I do believe we wouldn’t be in quite the mess we are. He would appeal to our courage and face the enemy instead of Quislings in politics letting in the Trojan horse and good men say and do nothing.
i bet he doesn't
There will be a second coming
He is. Never knew him but only just come across these videos now. His wisdom still spread even after his death. 👍👍👍
The Muslim guy talks a lot but says very little.
Tariq Ramadan accused of rape in Lyon: a fifth complaint added to the file
The facts allegedly occurred in May 2014 at the Sofitel hotel in Lyon.
While interviewing Tariq Ramadan in his suite, *the victim recounts having been pushed around and then raped several times by the Islamologist and one of his friends.*
www.leprogres.fr/faits-divers-justice/2020/07/29/tariq-ramadan-accuse-de-viol-a-lyon-une-plainte-ajoutee-au-dossier
@John Martinez discover-the-truth.com/2013/09/14/bible-child-marriage-in-ancient-israelite-times-paedophilia/
I've listened to him speed x2.
This guy said quite a lot of things...
@Vinnie P.
Give him a chance mate, it's worth it.
@Vinnie P.
I know. That's why i didn't want to listen to him in the first place. But then i gave him a chance and he's a very sophisticated guy and Hitchens' argument seems, all of a sudden, very shallow.
"You may have a problem with religion more than you have a problem with Islam." Uh yeah. That's been his stance all along.
No, he always kissed APARTHEID israeli arse. #BDS
@@auntiesemite9295 no, he really didn't.
Christoper was definitely one of history’s most intelligent and articulate humans to ever walk the earth !
LoL. Not in the top 10 million. Smart man, but not an Einstein or Newton
5:37 Hitchens opening statements
18:32 Ramadan opening statements
33:40 Hitchens rebuttal
45:09 Ramadan rebuttal
55:27 open discussion
1:08:01 Q+A
1:11:33 Ramadan on progressive Muslim-majority countries
1:16:06 Hitchens on the same
1:17:33 Ramadan on literal Quran
1:20:24 Ramadan on Sharia
1:26:16 Hitchens on Sharia
Awesome! Thank you
@@3beanchili no probs!
Just want to listen to CH. Thanks buddy.
@@PraveenKumar-sr6ne 👍
thanks dude👍
Notice how every “answer” Tariq gave was actually just a rejection of the premise of the question. He then invented his own version of the question and answered that.
Ramadan.exe was successfully cracked!
Like every muslim "scholar"
because the premise was false
Well said.
It's the standard response method when faced with points you cannot address, redirect, move the goal posts and make your position about something else, it's weak and shows you cannot argue your point.
What courage and what wisdom, thank you Mr Hitchens. You are remembered 🙏
Unfortunately he died as a very ignorant man.
@@tajzikria5307 not only is that your opinion, your opinion is just wrong
@@nonstickmeat 🤡
Lgbqt+#&@€*
@@tajzikria5307
He didn't - you might.
I would never live in any Muslim country but as a non-Israeli and a Jamaican I would live in Israel.
Tariff paints a lovely picture, but it does not resemble anything approaching reality.
I'll give you an advice stop watching Fox news.
@@jakewebdev6428 I'm from Iran so I know a thing or 2 about theocracies and the religion of "peace". Please don't try to defend it , most of us in Iran hate this religion.
@@k2h873 most Iranian people are good and they love their religion more than anything.
@@jakewebdev6428 Thats a contradiction in itself. You can not be good if you hold your religion above all else. With this view it is easy to justifiy any atrocity you want.
Yeah
I'm a Christian and know there is a stain on our history. I acknowledge that and disavow those evil men & church leaders. I know many peaceful Muslims, but if you try to get them to make the same statement disavowing their own religion's bloody acts, you are in danger of literally losing a friend. I lost a friend who was like a sister to me because I expressed concern over how serious she was getting about Islam. I was worried that her new Iranian boyfriend was going to have her under some sort of Sharia law when they got married and just bringing it up prompted her to end our 22 year friendship.
When you say 'but' you negate everything you said before it.
@paxtonb3926 thats terribly illogical.
To the original comment, she did you a favor and you'd be doing yourself a favor if you spent some time in honest reflection as to what the atrocities perpetrated in the name of Christianity (up to present day Ill add) imply about your religion and its origins.
She was never a true friend if she didn't understand your concern and point, instead chose to end your friendship with her in such petty issue
You think she was going to continue that friendship after she got married? A Muslim women? She was dust in the wind before you even met her.
Muslims don’t want Christian/Jewish Friends.
They want Christian/Jewish Pets.
I think Mr Hitchens won with only his entry speech.
Exactly. This was a show debate, but I'm glad some people listened to it - having already listened to everything else that's online that he's ever done, I just couldn't.
@@shelleymartin1451 usa has the most cases of fathers killed by their children under the age 15 were these children's Muslims..??usa starved millions of children in iraq and Afghanistan soviet union and china killed +200million people the last century why arnt they called terrorrist??
trust me his entry speech couldn't be more wrong
and i don't even like Ramadan at all
@@gamersandotakus2839 forgive me if I don't "trust you".
Correct me if I'm wrong
I have never heard of a Buddhist kill while chanting "Buddha the great " i have never heard of a jew kill while chanting "baruch hashem" and i have never heard a Christian kill while chanting "Jesus christe"
Crusades
And yes Jews do it in the name of Israel. All of them are in the same boat
@@ob7633 I wish I were as stupid as you, life would be easier.
Seems to me Tariq will only answer to the sort of questions asked by himself ...
Yes that's immediately what I thought.. says false premise/ inappropriate description, then redefines question to suit his answer. It seems his whole schtick is "I have THE answer, your just asking the wrong question"
This is what they all do when they can’t defend the religion or the Quran, or they say if it isn’t in Arabic then it is t correct.
@@marcuslarwa9098 ever heard of “translation”? What kind of medieval are you living in?
@@Jawadshahzad101 I’m just pointing out what they always do when u being up versus of the Quran that make the religion look bad. They say if it isn’t in Arabic then it’s not correct.
So Yehoshua (Jesus) is supposed to be a prophet of Allah according to Islam ???
How does it work if Allah is not YHWH! In addition, it is the UNFORGIVABLE SIN in Islam to testify to YHWH as the 1 True God!
But Yehoshua means "YHWH SAVES”” So Jesus is definitely not the prophet of Allah! Because he only confirm YHWH!
41:30 EXACTLY In pakistan the mullah who incited a man to kill another 'blasphemer" is going around freely in Masjids and is allowed to PREACH by the name of Mufti Muhammad Hanif Qureshi.
My take home phrase from this debate: "there is no religion of peace by definition."
He was near to death, knew he was reduced by the medication he had to take, in pain, coughing, and yet he had the bravery to step out on stage, again, in front of an audience and cameras and a clever opponent to make his stand for truth as he saw it. Right or wrong, that is magnificent. It adds to his charm that he was right.
"There is no country of peace by definition" i would add. The world is at battle since the dawn of man. Religion is not the reason for it.
@@rubif5797 Religion and born from it the differences and orders to convert others and execute any who leaves.
Yes sure
"Religion is not the reason for it"
@@sparkynova4246 Wars are fought for recources and Land. Slavery and war is the result of greed. You can build rockets for destruction and for research. You can use knowledge for medicine and for chemical weapons. You can use religion for meditation and self reflection, for finding peace. And you can use it as a reason to fight. To say, "well i am an atheist So all evil must come from religion" is the same as to say, " i chose the right religion so i do the right thing and everybody else is evil." To feel superior and move all blame to the other side. This is why i will not be on either side. Both are wrong. For some reason nobody wants to find the bad inside themself. Allways blame the other side.
@@rubif5797 There is no country of peace, true. So when you hear countries declaring themselves that, doubt it, say it isn't true. The same goes for religions. When they say they are religions of peace, doubt it, say it isn't true. It isn't true in both cases; both nations and religions ARE causes for war. So you contest the argument by naming another source of war, namely the artificial boundaries that we draw on the ground and call national borders. That doesn't get religion off the accusation at all, and is irrelevant to it's defence. All you have done is introduce an additional culprit.
A true hero of his time and the ones to come after. Such an inspiration for all mankind and such an articulate thinker. Hats down. He did so much even when he knew he was dying... Amazing person, great man!
Sometimes you have to go and watch a Christoper Hitchens video, just to remind you of what a greatly missed man he is.
yes and pinky away a little tear!!
I came here to watch because I miss the man.
yet another man is gone with the wind.
indefatigable debater
@@Sandheepp1313 he is dead and gone. He now knows the true answers. He is not that missed. Lol I didnt even know who he was until he long died.
I left Islam when I read the Qur’an and the biography of Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam
Now I live in Iraq and I can't talk about it even with my family I might be killed, and society will reject me, it's very difficult for me
and many Arabs leave Islam every day, but they cannot announce that because they may be killed and of course society rejects them.
Thank you for sharing this. And then there are people like the speaker in the video proclaiming that this is a peaceful religion.... Good luck to you
When Christians leave the dogma we deal with the same principles as Muslims who leave, except our Christian bros and sis don’t wanna kill us
Your body will reject you, it's made of parts who are mü'slim.
@@ummerfarooq5383 What the hell are you talking about?
@@ubermod5564 just ask ch 's throat
Ramadan has a distinct underlying hostility
Yeah I feel the same way, probably beats his dog, oh wait…
That my friend is what we call racism.
Multiple rape allegations. oops, who could have known..
@@crusinx1234 oh really MO? What is the evidence behind your accusation?
@@RnRanimal Idk man everyone in the comments seems triggered about something. It's a debate. We're here to learn. And the comment makes no sense. Point to a moment where hostility was shown. And I could at least explain myself more, but it's a blanket statement.
Hitchens was also aggressive and angry you dont see anyone making a statement about that.
Thank you you tube to keep those discussions alive for future generations
Tariq says "The problem is not the book, it's the reader."
Why would a god-or even a smart man-inspire a book that can be misunderstood?
The problem is the book.
The problem isn't the book either : its pages are ideal as spare TP y'know ?
Any book or ideology can be taken out of context and be "intentionally" misunderstood to fulfill an agenda, aka ISIS, al Qaida, etc. These are not muslims. They take implicit superimposed messages of harming people and supersede explicit messages of not harming any human beings. This can be done with any religion, and this can be done with ANY ideology (maoist china, communist russia, etc.)
The problem isn't the book, it's the people.
@@bassemghoneim4904 but if that book claims too be the most perfect and last message from GOD himself, then this statement is contradictory. If allah himself cannot create a book that is so clear and straightforward, but claims it to be the "perfect word" then god himself failed.
maq dad Quran 3:7, Surah Al-Imran:
It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.
The problem is simply that the whole thing reads as a horoscope. You can get everything out of it if you want to and that is exactly the problem.
I hate people who don't address the discrepancies that are brought up or the problems addressed.
Moderators NEED to start calling people out about people who don't answer the questions asked or addressing the claims made. If a person is going to address the claim but not dispute it, then what's the point?
According to Tariq, extremists are just reading the text wrong. “Apostates should be killed”. Seems pretty clear.
Where does it say that? Because it doesnt say that once in the quran
I don't see why so many people would find executing traitors so absurd. Contrary to what you believe Islam is not exclusively a body of philosophical teachings; it's a way of life, the way of life for all that believe in Allah and there are rules as there are in all orders.
@Mark Aguilera a single narrated Hadith can not take life. Every reasonable Muslim Theologian would tell you this and tgey would also explain you the context of the Hadith. Theology is an academic approach to religion. It's not that easy as people make it look like. It's not that you read texts out of context without consideration of the bigger picture and than take your own understanding as absolute and apply what you have understood of the text and then say that's Islam.
@@ahmetrefikeryilmaz4432 you don't see why people would find the killing of innocent people absurd? The killing of those who question the existence of Allah or the truth of their holy texts? The honor killings of women, and the slaughtering of gays? You don't understand how batshit crazy that is to anyone who doesn't believe in that stuff?
Imagine if there was a place that touted Harry Potter as the prophet, similar to Christ. The Harry Potter series of books was believed to be true, and any question of it's authenticity would get you killed. You don't see a problem with this?
@@bonewelder1471 so you decide who's innocent and who's not?
i think it was hitchens who said elsewhere, you can spot a peaceful religion when its extremists are extremely peaceful.
This is my favorite from him! th-cam.com/users/shortsaGlQnSASxcE
I absolutely cannot stand Tariq Ramadan. He is one of the most rambling, least intelligible speakers I've ever had the displeasure of listening to. He is the very definition of someone who talks for hours without saying anything.
or maybe you are just not intrested in what he had to say friend.
My thoughts exactly. Even when he does make points, he could easily take something which took him 15 minutes, and shrink it into 2 minutes and still have the same impact.
Tariq is brilliant and a voice of reason
Strings of Peace These are allegations. Wait for the court to reach its decision. On the points he raised in te debat, Tariq has said nothing fraudulent
scottski02, AND someone to learn from, because a precise analysis of how he rambles can be greatly instructive for those looking to refine their debating skills, in the same way that religious debaters can provide a great lesson in logical fallacies and misdirection tricks
Why have I only found out about this man in the last few days? What a speaker. The way his comments have seeped into my memory and stuck with me over these last few days is so crazy, but also so intellectually stimulating.
@@Inge-99 well, yes. :)
@@Inge-99 was*, unfortunately. Will be missed
Plenty of his material online that makes him immortalised. I too wish he was still here, but it is up to us to continue the advocacy of freedom of thought and inquisition.
Better late than never. Welcome.
Do you read books ??
Obviously not ... if Hitchens is a recent discovery ... and that is just sad.
Get off your fekkin phone ...
Why would a just and good God have left so much of His word down to interpretation?
this is a dangerous question to ask for a religious person to ask as it is questioning God not faith and religious people know not to question God. I think this is why you won’t get a solid answer to your question.
@hamid mansoor And about interpretation and variation, and omissions (potentially) hamid?
@@chrissonofpear1384 actually if you read hadith bukhari you will know that muhammad had black slaves not only that but he chose to trade 2 black slaves of his with a white one who was muslim and set him free now isnt that racist?
@@labrat585 Yeah, a messy time, that. Not that religions in the west have a good track record clearly wrapping up and defining slavery anyway.
@@chrissonofpear1384 i was following islam just 2 months ago and now i feel disgusted , if you want to know about your religion go to atheists is what i learned because theres so much information hiddden from you by those who lead the religion , theres the fact that they think honor killing is ok and marrying a minor is acceptable and its so sexist that it puts feminists to shame
It hurts to know I'll never get to meet Christopher Hitchens. What a hero!
Luckily we have his discourses recorded...yay for technology??.. except for A.I. ..that will possibly be the boss of the world by 2030
“Demands to believe impossible things do not result in peaceful outcomes” love that statement by Hitchens. (At about 16:15 in the above)
Oops... try 16:05
@@rorygilmoreNZ You know that you can edit your comments, right?
Lol, people in my local area have for a relatively long time now been harassing me, or were harassing me, on behalf of a religious nutcase who was convinced it was "God's plan" for me to breed with him, be with him, whatever, or just associate with him on any level. The amount of chaos, destruction, pain and suffering this caused me was devastating. Religion in general the last couple years has led to the complete ruin of my life. Obviously as any brave warrior should, I am trying to live my life regardless, but it does not detract from the damage that religious people have done to it. And even non-religious people, who simply have no conscience and cannot think for themselves. But I'm like guys...This guy (the guy from the church) will win the lottery, get killed by a vending machine, struck by lightening twice, be killed by a falling coconut and hit by a meteorite (the latter 3 are all more probable than winning the lottery btw) before coming anywhere near me lol, or having anything to do with me lol. And even then, he wouldn't, should in some crazy alternate reality any or all of those things happen 🤣
@@LMorningstar-yv8ouI'm really sorry for everything that happened to you. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to have all these people harrassing you in such a stupid and mean way. I hope you get better and better. I don't know if you can get away from there or not, but I believe it'll be okay in the end. Screw these people
We lost a great man. Today we need him more than ever!!
Emulate him.
Be inspired.
@@thegroove2000 We can try to emulate him. But I know, speaking for myself, I'm not anywhere near as articulate. But I like your point - to try to as much as possible, agree!
@@Rich7714 Same here. Thanks and enjoy the HITCH.
We lost a man who invented the drug for cancer and alzeimer and many other fatal deseases.
Christopher Hitchens please come back we need you right now more than ever
@Lunatic That he is not that is truth
Interesting how Tariq Ramadan starts off by equivocating and saying that the question of peace is the wrong question. Im not an expert but the idea of peace (not killing each other) is not complicated.
He didn't say it was complicated
So, here we are in January 2022, and unfortunately Tariq Ramadan has been consistently proven wrong about everything.
And profoundly damaging . He would not answer to the question of how the Hadith deals with apostates , to name only one question . This guy spent so much time selling his peaceful “ Islam that apostates leaving in France are scared of ally these “ peaceful “ muslims who threaten them with death .
Questions to antiomoral ideology of islam.
1) Can woman decide for herself, or her `caretaker` have deciding voice?
2) Can nonbeliever marry `muslim` woman?
3) How you should treat apostates from islam?
4) Why peace and freedom are in Islam synonyms to war and slavery(subjugation)?
5) How doas afterlife differs, depending on you being islamist/nonislamist man/woman or ... yourself up and becoming martyr?
6) Why women have to wear these bags, maybe islamist should just po.. their eyes, that will have multiple pros, like they will be unable to k!ll anybody, or it will be much harder?
January 2023 still the same...
Especially him.saying Turkey is moving in a progressive manner lmao
As expected by the history of islam.
On first watch, I had some respect for Ramadan's point of view, in the face of a strong, reasonable and intellectually superior Hitchens. Watching it again, some years later, I now see that Ramadan's argumentation is very weak indeed and even less a match for Hitchens than I realised on first watch. I think Ramadan's position is, in fact, chilling, weird, self-satisfied, partial, inaccurate, unworldly, and defends the indefensible.
He is also a serial rapist. I guess that didn't help.
@@MrYelly Oh wow! I didn't realise. I've just read into it. What a disgusting man. I called him "chilling, weird": perhaps I was picking up on something dark about his character.
@@ashcross We often do pick up on dark things about dark people. It is just so darned hard to rightfully point it out when they attempt to wear the face of "peace, love and unity".
I am very glad that at least the hypocracy of this ridiculously evil bozo has ended.
Thank you for your insights.
@@MrYelly Agreed. I am also glad that his true nature has been uncovered.
Don't forget sinister
We need more debates like this NOWADAYS!
There is nothing to debate, you can submit or resist.
@@danielmauric8491A retarded, primitive sentiment.
What@@danielmauric8491
I think that tariq ramadan is the muslim version of Jordan Peterson, talking and talking to say nothing
JP - A SOCIAL MEDIA WANNABE PHILOSOPHER
There are murderers from every culture and religion. However, when the murders claim to kill in the name of their god, these murderers are predominantly from one religion.
They do now. Luckily Christianity's murders in the name of religion from the crusades to various progroms against other Christian sects not to mention non stop harassment, progroms and murders of Jews seem to have abated at last after the Northern Ireland peace agreement of very recent times.
But dont hold your breath. There are some very very weird so called Christians in the US.
Lazy argument
Enlightenment
Ask a Muslim "When will the world have peace?". The Quran states "when all the infidels are dead or have converted will the world finally have peace"... so when they say 'Peace be with you' it literally translates to: "die or convert"
Tariq Ramadan: "Islam deals with the process of going from violence to peace. You need to deal with your inner wars and tensions. You get this message in all religions, it is not unique to Islam"
Believers: Only Allah is true. The Quran is the word of god. Muhammad is the final prophet. Apostasy is punishable by death. Criticism of the Prophet or the Quran is not permissible, blasphemy is punishable by death.
Does anyone see the problem? Where is the path to peace in such assertions?
If you see a problem with that, then you should also extend that to all other faiths and not just Islam.
Christianity was the same, same words used and repeated by priests and books if only worded differently, and I'm sure other religions are the same.
For example Christianity was the similar, if not worse, in their history they were far less tolerant of different faiths and races, with riots and purges lead by fanatical priests to wipe out minorities. Only after the Reformation wars, WW1 and WW2 did we get the current version of Christianity, and even then we still struggle with the Ideas of Race and religion and bigotry exists, if only subtly.
Islam is merely going through these same phases, plus has to struggle with the fact that their civilizations and societies were and are still dominated to some degree by the West, and there are no easy answers as to why it happened and what the solution is going forward. Hence all the chaos we are seeing in the middle east and the Islamic community as every person has a different answer that they believe they are right and everyone else is wrong
@@223sushi notice how u keep say was, not many people follow the Old Testament. That’s the problem with Islam, they keep and practice all of the Quran, even the parts where Muhammad became a warlord.
@@223sushi - this is not only with Islam even Christianity as well. Bible god is a serial killer.
@@223sushi The key words being "was similar" and "in their history", just confirming that Islam is still barbaric and stuck in the cave-man era, while others have progressed.
@@vijdon1611 Christianity has had its fangs drawn. So should Islam.
Tariq Ramadan should be a politician!
Talks eloquently yet doesn't answer a single question.
he's in custody in france for raping several girl who were indoctrinated by his beliefs. he plays domination sex with girls and like to hurt them ...
@@pluggerizer Oh I guess he's overqualified then.
He's a wolf in sheep's clothes..like many islamists. Never let yourself be fooled by them, their only goal is to islamize as many non-muslim countries as possible to install caliphates with sharia law.
Laws invented specially to subdue atheists, Christians and other religions.
Isn’t he under the cloud of numerous rape allegations?
He is practicing his religion lying quran quran 3 v 28
We miss you, Christopher..... we will keep up the fight against religious barbarism.
Do you mean Atheism like China the USSR, Vietnam, North Korea that killed millions of people for no reason, or Christianity that burned millions in inquisitions?
@@jakewebdev6428 Those countries do not kill in the name of atheism.
@@Brammy007a My dear friend you don't have any idea about what those countries did in the name of Atheism just type Lysenkoism in your search engine , this was a campaign is the USSR where they killed biologists who just thought mendelian laws of genetics that are (valid clue against the evolution of species) famous biologists and thousands of biology teachers were killed, Lenin by himself when he came to power in the name of Atheism killed all religious figures he could that could find in order to stop the spreading of religion, plus in North Korea which is an Atheist state hundreds of people are executed every year for just having a Quran or a Bible. I'm sorry for my rude answer but yes they killed in the name of Atheism more than all religions did.
@@jakewebdev6428 You may persecute religions, but that is not killing in the name of atheism. Atheism is a single response to a single question. You say there is a god (or gods) and I say I don't believe it. That's it. That is an atheist. Atheism is not a religion. It is not an organization. The reasons these maniacs in the USSR and China and N Korea persecuted people has to do with power and prejudice, not atheism as such.
Mendelian laws of genetics are simply not a "valid clue against the evolution of species'. Evolution is a fact. Evolution and speciation driven by natural selection is also an observed and demonstrable fact. Do you not agree?
@@Brammy007a Talking about evolution this is a Big word that is misunderstood is it the Chemical evolution that Atheist biologist still have no direct interpretation that originates life from Proteins to organisms to cells with different or the Darwinian evolution that links similarities between species both are according to me invalid and pushed for no valid reason except for promoting Atheism unfortunately 😢 as they famous biologist Francis Collins who developed the genome project and is a man of faith who brought many contributions to humanity contrary to Charles Darwin and Steffen Hawking and Lawrence Krauss who brought nothing that humanity could benefit from except pseudoscience and philosophies said "One of the greatest tragedies of our time is the impression that has been created that science and religion have to be at war".
I'm going to come from the beginning as to cut the problem from the root as in computing we say from the building blocks of the bytecode 💻🤓 Even thought I studied Biology and Chemistry.
First of all it has been proven that Chemical evolution has never Taken place on earth because the conditions in earth a billion years ago (Gasses, pressure...) could not produce proteins so they said "life came threw an asteroid".
Secondly the example given in the petri box towards the resistance of the bacteria is an example of a "mutation" and not evolution we all know that mutation takes places and despairs quickly.
Thirdly the cell needs many third parties such as the ARN to be able replicate DNA nowadays the royal society doubled the reward for the first person who will bring a self replicating DNA strand which is impossible because viruses are the simplest forms of organisms and yet they cannot replicate on their own that's why it's attacking us 😷, the cell in itself has other complex organism that have a relation of exchange like mitochondria that is an independent organism with it's own DNA that decays Glucose to pyruvate threw Glycose which Evolutionists say it has been domesticated, just the fine tuning and how ions H+ are thrown away from the cell threw other organisms so that H+ ions do not overflow the cell are a great example of intelligent design.
For Darwinian evolution and pay attention carefully we are talking about the evolution of species that means from a monkey (the great ape) to human and all what came before , just look at the karyotype of human DNA we have 46 chromosomes chimpanzees have 48 so how could we get rid of the two? or how the chimpanzee gained the two? or how that difference of number occurred ? knowing that the meiosis occurs is a complex mechanism.
Those are just valid scientific arguments and facts against the chemical evolution if you want to talk about the Darwinian evolution and why it's false and invalid in that case I'm prepared to respond by scientific arguments. I hope you'll come to the truth and escape from the dark episode of Atheism that we all have been to 🙏.
Can't answer the question, change the question.
Tariq Ramadan accused of rape: "He hit me, then he strangled me, and then he raped me"
th-cam.com/video/Yuvy9kPybXg/w-d-xo.html
Well, rationality vs religion usually end up this way, cant have a satisfying ending. Otherwise its not called faith but science.
@bigbadb10 "Tariq Ramadan literally threw himself on me like a wild 🐷 beast", testifies Henda Ayari
th-cam.com/video/GnnFy0uFe3E/w-d-xo.html
@Duncan Hackett "Tariq Ramadan literally threw himself on me like a wild 🐷 beast", testifies Henda Ayari
th-cam.com/video/GnnFy0uFe3E/w-d-xo.html
@@Cecilia-ky3uw "Tariq Ramadan literally threw himself on me like a wild 🐷 beast", testifies Henda Ayari
th-cam.com/video/GnnFy0uFe3E/w-d-xo.html