ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ต.ค. 2024
- The Pokemon TCG community loves a bit of drama eh! And boy oh boy did the Gdansk regional championships not disappoint! The Community is in a bit of a panic so lets deep dive why they are and in my opinion why they are wrong!
FOLLOW me on Instagram- BurtsPTCG
FOLLOW me on Twitter- BurtsPTCG
FOLLOW my TikTok-BurtsPTCG
All my Skits HERE! - • TYPES OF PLAYERS YOU S...
Dragonshield- www.dragonshie...
Pokedecks- www.pokedecks4...
Floating Cards Template - twitter- LukeLune
Discount code Slowpoke5 for 5% off at JGC Collectables!
jgc-collectabl...
Ignore this its just for the algo
I really enjoy playing the pokemon tcg nothing is better then a good pokemon card pack opening if the pokemon cards are worth money its even better. getting into a pokemon card battle is also fun. Of course playing the pokemon tcg is my forte! like how to build a pokemon deck and playing the pokemon tcg online is how I spend most of my evenings. Pokemon tcg tournament are also great and if you even need any help on how to play the pokemon tcg then let me know! Dont forget you can also open pokemon tcg pack online too! Ive never got to open packs with leonhart or randolph but hopefully will soon! Not pokemon vgc pokemon vgc online or pokemon tcg world championships. Building pokemon decks is very fun! watching other deck profiles and deck lists is very helpful
Through multiple competitive card games and esports, I've found that most times people call for a ban (this early) it's because they refuse to adapt to what they want banned
Yep. Weak egos call for (unjust) nerfs and bans.
Seems like a fair assessment to me! 👀
But in YGO it's usually because strategies are so polarizing and your deck so linear you don't have enough room in even your side deck to combat everything.
yugioh has regular bans so i think its' a lot more reasonable than in something like pokemon that doesn't@@PathBeyondTheDark
yugiohi s the exception to a lot of things that apply to "card games" in general though
It's like this one kid back when I was in the Pokemon League at our local WOTC store, had a deck banned by the employees that ran it each week. His deck was 56 psychic energy, and 4 base Mewtwo. It was literally unbeatable, since all he would do is Barrier over and over and over. We tried to screw with his energy gathering, but eventually he just got told to never use that deck again lol
Haha the ol Barrier spam 😂 wotc times were wild
The "issue" with Snorlax stall is the way you lose to the deck and the psychology behind it. Most people play the Pokemon TCG because they find it fun, and enjoyable. It is challenging but not necessarily a stressful experience (for most players under typical conditions). When a deck is so far and away from the typical gameplay experience and is having success, people naturally label the deck as something that needs to get banned because the experience tends to be extremely frustrating and stressful, or in other words, not fun. More competitive, serious players view decks like stall as a challenge and healthy for the game because their perspective of the game is inherently different from the casual to semi-serious players. I would think that a vast majority of players are in the casual to semi-serious category.
Pokemon, MTG, Yu-Gi-Oh, and any other TCG should not be compared. They are different games with different strategies and more importantly, have different player bases and communities.
As much as I dislike playing against Snorlax stall, I do not think a ban is the right move. The meta will have to adapt and it will, it is more of a matter of if than when. For some decks and players, it will always be a bad match-up. Have fun, enjoy the game the way you want, and if you want to beat stall learn how to play against it! So many great resources online, Burt even touches on it with the potential of Minior.
I feel as though decks like this are necessary.
I agree! Signs of a good meta when all playstyles are good 🙏
Agreed. Decks like this are necessary, because they prey on Manaphy and Jirachi, and at times Radiant Greninja, in decks that can't get them online for attacks. Support Pokémon shouldn't be that free.
@itsquinnyp fair point!
@@BurtsPTCG a good meta is when skill matters most. diversity of decks or playstyles doesn't matter
@@itsquinnyp why should cards that are needed to combat the meta be punished? that's some wacky logic
Where do you want to see yourself and the channel to be in the next 5 to 10 years? It’s been fun to see the growth of the channel and I would imaging getting to cast official events has been neat!
Not sure tbh! Hopefully still casting events will be on the cards and the channel will be much bigger :p appreciate your support 🙏
This reminds me of the people that complain about wrestling or jiu jitsu in MMA. Usually, it's because they don't know how to grapple and call for the ref to "stand em up" or call it boring. But it's just another aspect of the game. Its even got the issue of perceived effort because it can seem like someone is "just laying" on their opponents but holding someone down is a lot harder than it looks and if they get up its a lot of energy to take them down again. In conclusion if snorlax did mma, he would be a grappler lol.
Thats actually a good way of putting it! 🙌
@@BurtsPTCG Thanks brotha! Love your content🙌🏽
Stalls can be improbable, but not infallable. The problem in the tcg community nowadays is they dont think any counters that can stop a meta deck, its not like we got a shaymin ex over and over again. As for snorlax, if you dont have an item or support that can switch your opponents pokemon, you consider yourself being pissed.
People will just have to adapt I think! 🙌
Just add minior as the counter
@liltone9614 or spirittomb 👀
I'm new to Pokemon but from a Yugioh player's perspective, Decking Out and other weird win conditions are way too common nowadays to ban enough, so we just roll with it here 😂 It's the pure traditional beatdown that we're lacking in Yugioh
No beat down! Didn't expect that :p
Snorlax is not unreasonably overpowered, some players are just too salty when they lose to stall or mill decks and I think it's hilarious! He's just a pokemon doing his job like he was back in Blue/Red/Yellow
Haha! That's a good point actually never thought of that 😂🙌
You think gen 1 lax was absurd? Wait until you see gen 2 lax.
It’s important to listen to community feedback when there’s this much outcry against a win con. Regardless of the reason, ppl hate it which drives players out of the game
I like control decks in magic bc there's always ways around it with your sideboard. Pokemon not having side board options make it really hard to beat not just control but certain match ups all together and are forced to run sub optimal cards bc of it. Now I don't think pokemon should have 15 card side boards like magic does. But I do think in between best of 3's you should have access to 5 cards to side board in between Match ups. There's still enough variance with prizes that you may not even get your side board card that you need. And if your opponent knows that you're going to side in something to stop your deck you can side in something to stop their counter so adds more of mind game elements and still requires some skill.
Playing the counter to the counter mind games would be interesting for sure!
No side deck? Cram random non-engine into your deck to combat specific rogue strategies you may never even play? That doesn't sound very reasonable.
@@PathBeyondTheDarkThats one of the major flaws of the Pokemon TCG- some matchups are pretty much an auto-loss, and trying to tech to account for that makes the deck worse overall :/
Cards that improve your win chance are by definition not sub optimal.
An unrestricted sideboard of even 3 cards would destroy Pokémon. Sideboards only work in other card games because you rarely, if ever, have individual cards that are capable of swinging matchups by 10%+. They're common in Pokémon naturally because of the weakness mechanic. As a result, we cannot have a sideboard, and the game designers print tech cards that are balanced accordingly-which is something people coming from other games have trouble understanding.
We don't have weak tech cards, they're all swing cards that are balanced to make them worth debating including in your main 60 cards. Jirachi from Paradox Rift, for example, is designed to be equal in power level against Sableye to as if you were teching in a cheap grass-type attacker to help against Charizard ҼX. If we had a sideboard, a card like Jirachi could've been made weaker (they could make it only work during your opponent's next turn after you put it into play), but they can't make all grass types weaker, that massively restricts game design.
I don't think Snorlax should be banned, is true that is boring to see and not fun to play but that's not enough reason for a ban. The problem I see with that deck is that the opponent doesn't play, I mean, if we see the finals match, Erin wasn't playing at all, so it wasn't really a game, it was like seeing a solo performance by Lukasz. That's precisely the real problem I see, because with Mewtwo the opponent can attack or try to do things, with Wishiwashi gx the same, however with Snorlax it ends with just draw-pass.
But in the end stopping Snorlax is not difficult, only boring because with 1 Skwovet and 2 cards that your opponent can't make you discard (supporter, pokemon with your bench full or basic energy cards) you will never be decked out and if time were infinite, your opponent would end up losing by missing to many Cyllene coin flips.
I can't argue that's its truly entertaining to watch but i think its good to have some diversity in the format outside of just different ways to attach energy and do damage 🙏 Appreciate your constructive comment by the way 🙌
As a Floowandereeze player in yugioh who casually plays Pokémon, I can assure you that more often than not, people just don’t want to change their strategy or they play an strategy they know can feel unfair or overwhelming and when they goof up in certain matchups they call for a ban.
Sounds accurate😂
Snorlax is the deck that got me into standard. I love it coming from magic as a control player. There are ways to outplay the deck that are not traditionally how you play against the rest of the meta. Hold your useless basics. We should be able to play the game from multiple axes.
Ayo! Glad you play pokemon now too! 🙌
i find it so werid, i play alot of other tcgs like mtg and its just somthing you have too prepair for a hard control game, where pokemon can be so quick to get off the mark i feel like lax being meta will help players think about there deck construction in the long run
Yep i agree! Switching cards ans resource management will become more of a focal point 🙏
I honestly dont get the snorlax hate. Sure it did well in Gdańsk, but in Brisbane regionals (which happened at the same time) it did godawful (6th and 7th, but that was it) which imo proves it isn’t an overpowered deck. I definitely agree, it’s a super annoying deck and it’s a huge waste of time but I honestly don’t mind versing it (ofc that could just be because I do quite well against it), so who knows. Either way, there will always be annoying decks and I think as a community we just have to deal with it. Anyways, that’s just what I think…
That seems very sensible to me! Appreciate the well thought out comment! 🙌
I do believe control is a valid strategy but it can be very frustrating to match at a regional because it always goes to time abd gives you zero time between rounds, though gardy can be similar in that sense.
I also think that dismissing all arguments against it as people being "salty" is just as dangerous as irrational arguments against it and people really need to be more open minded in general.
Garde and Lost Box I guess! Appreciate your constructive comment my friend 🙏🙌
@@BurtsPTCG As an avid Lost Tina player I agree haha, I think lots of things in the game can be frustrating to play against and it's important to realise that. Snorlax stall is frustrating to play against however getting donked or turn 2 sableyed or Iono spammed etc is also highly frustrating. It's important to realise that because everyone has a right to be frustrated in the moment it's just important not to let that frustration make you irrational after the fact.
I will forever be fine with stall even if i dont enjoy. As long as it isnt meta defining. SW/SH base were dark times
Haha your not wrong😂😭
As someone who loves playing ressource locks and stall type control decks in other games like MtG (Bloodmoon, Stax, Ponza etc), snorlax feels very fun to play and its an intricate puzzle to set up and anticipate your opponent. I get people may dislike it because they don't wanna adapt to the deck, but hey, thats why meta changes are good for the game.
I like your take on this. I come from yugioh, and stall and mill are given a lot of heck there as well. personally I love strategies that aren't about attacking in the standard way, and so i gravitate to this style of decks, and your not wrong- establishing the status you need to win and making it last long enough to do so is the hard part of playing any non tempo/aggro/combo strategy. making the net to trap your opponent in is the hard part, especially maintaining the net. I am impressed by snorlax stall. my only problem with it is that it shows just how effective locking the retreat mechanic is compared to actually taking part in any of the active mill cards that exist as is, and it stinks that this is most competitively viable way currently shown to focus on attacking the deck in this format of pokemon.
With minior being in format, theres a way to bypass both the snorlax block and the monster itself in the hands of any deck, and thats just one example of the deckbuilding set up one may need. just like how so many of the meta decks can actually use radiant greninja for spread, so manaphy has become a staple. one has to assess the risk on whether or not they need to fear it and deck the counters. it's just like how if your whole deck is built on primarily Exs, you recognize it opens you up to being locked by mimikyu or the newer aegislash if you don't build a means of prep against them. it's something you have to contend with.
🙌 Appreciate your support! 👌
In Yugioh alternate wincon decks are all about making sure your opponent never plays the game at all if they don't open the out in their starting hand. They never promote healthy gameplay. You can't easily tech into counters since 1. they're too niche, and 2. your chance of actually seeing them before the alt wincon lands is minimal.
@@geek593 as far as ive seen it while some alt-wincon decks are about performing the condition before the opponent can even play, theres a fair few that can't be played that way or are playable more under the stall umbrella as an option. even so many a non-alt wincon deck is focused on blunting an opponents plays to the point they have to have specific techs to make it through the opposing board effectively anyway to even have another turn due to a standard loss, thus the meme of "theres a turn 4?" being a thing. especially because I prefer decks that aren't as modern usually, that's something i see a lot. I'm not sure what you define as Healthy gameplay.
Sumo dice Games, Angel of mischief, and deep draw exodia are all often run as turn 1 combo builds, but considering the nature of especially the first two, it makes sense. that said Exodia can be played a few different ways, with crooked cook stall being annoyed in itself, but I myself ran a Paleozoic variant that while janky got through certain bad boardstates using exodia as a fallback, though it took more games with the Paleo's themselves playing normally when it did anything.
some have to just mount a defense of some kind because they just can't secure the win so soon. final countdown, destiny board, and the pure Runick variants are examples of that one. doing mill nowadays in yugioh Runick or not is an iffy venture not just because of trying to hold a board long enough. not-runick and you could set off a number of your opponents own effects (most notably the remaining tearlament players), Runick and you autolose some matchups the same way if you can even secure a hold and how you do that.
Yugioh in general is like the madcap fighting game of TCGs as far as I understand it, where turn 1 holds so much power that unless you design your deck to blind second and get second your probably in some level of trouble from the outset. you can't counter everything in the first place, just the most common threats to make your winrate better. Personally over in master duel im far more concerned about vanquish soul, purrely, or Kashtira (still not a fan of that name) or even labrynth then any strategy that is going to be cornercase. I still haven't seen many snorlax stall myself in pokemon despite the wins it's sad. if anything I've seen more people willing to try counter catcher wugtrio, which honestly makes me smile, even when i lose to it. I just like it when people are trying more mechanics than just the one the game is primarily tilted for.
I had a guy try to deck me out by attacking my deck with wugtrio and putting my attacker on the bench with various trainer cards, thankfully my deck is built on recycling energies to my deck for attacks so I eventually won
Ayo let's go! 🙌
And now that you're on record saying you don't like to play control, you have the perfect opening to play it at the next few events.
Haha probably not Im too busy trying to make Kyrurem playable 😂😭
People don't like losing by being prevented from winning. Consistent across all card games.
One thing that ties us all together 🤣
I think the main issue with snorlax decks or similar especially is they are really frustrating to play against. I’ve played against snorlax and mawile at local events and those games were dull and just ended from round time. If you think the control games are boring to watch, they are worse to play in.
Having been retired for a while i get not liking the control playstyle but it is just as valid as any other way. Be like trying to ban grapple characters in a fighting game, just cuz you dont like them dont mean its not fair haha
Think a lot of players these days only know the big numbers do damage decks but we played through the trenches of toad so we learned how to play more conservative like. Seems like people need to get training back at the locals because this one is definitely a skill issue haha
Haha 🤣🤣 man said skill issue 💀💀
People complaining about losing to stall/control, to me at least, sound the exact same as the people wishing they hadn't cut Drapion V in a meta with Mew VMax. Prep for the matchup or accept that your deck isn't going to have a favorable matchup against EVERY deck in the format.
Seems pretty fair to me! Like its okay to not have perfect matchups everywhere 😂
Anybody know if the Virbank city group on Facebook still around? I'm tryin to find it but it's nowhere to be found
I think it is!
Never had a problem against this type of deck and i LOVE to see stall and mill options now being more present. It's makes the game more dynamic then just high hitting pokemon tbh.
I agree! 🙌
If alakazam ex was more viable option to play it could be a nice counter since it attacks from the bench, but only problem then is mimikyu I suppose
Actually played against Zam at locals the other day! Was pretty interesting! 😂
In a game where everyone tries to build huge attacks, Snorlax plays in a game of chess full of defense. Offense sells tickets, Defense wins.
Definitely my Yugioh mindset here, but I think having a side deck would help with these “issues”.
I agree a 10 card side board would fix this
A ten card side deck makes mew unbeatable in a b03 scenario imo doesn't a side deck in yugioh just make the high tier decks just unreachable by anything other then another high tier deck?
I agree I prefer pokemon not having a side board@@BurtsPTCG
@@BurtsPTCG Yes and no. Sacking/getting lucky is very common in Yugioh Best-of-1; so the side deck in yugioh reduces variance due to the ceiling Yugioh inherently has. Pokemon's gameplay loop is a bit harder to justify a side deck because the games are imposible to end in 2 turns meaning you see more draws for turn and Pokemon's ability to see whatever card they want via absurd plusses. Subsequently the side board full of silver bullets in pokemon is theoretically more powerful than in Yugioh were our silver bullets are mostly unsearchable and have harsher restrictions on free plus cards.
@@BurtsPTCGSIDE decking in competitive Yu Gi Oh is EVERYTHING.
If you know the meta, what card to swap between duels (SIDE decking) and have a little bit of luck, you win duels.
A lot of tournaments had been won doing this.
Love your videos but why when you go to the Pokemon cards it’s dark?
I think many people take issue with the possibility that, without having any choice, you can be forced to just start with a non-attacking Pokémon and instantly be put in such a harsh back foot that the game is borderline lost already. For example, Gardevoir doesn’t have room to tech in switching cards without tanking consistency, and has 2-3 non-attackers to get trapped on turn 1. It’s already tight enough when managing a game with only turo/pal pad without needing to burn one of your turos immediately. If the stall player hits 2 Erika’s through the whole match after that, the game is over, which is way easier if you don’t have the resources to discard/super rod the Pokémon you pick up with turo.
Part of me is curious if the solution to this problem, as well as iron valiant and other turn 1 donks, would be to allow each player to choose their starting Pokémon and draw a hand of 6 other cards. It doesn’t punish players quite as hard in general for including tech cards like manaphy and makes sure both decks have a chance to get into the game. The downside is of course the elimination of mulligans allows for players to run fewer Pokémon, but that itself is somewhat controversial in itself. What are your thoughts on this solution, or any other solutions that could let players actually get into the game?
This potential solution could also make for interesting lead choices. In the Gardevoir matchup, maybe you’d see players choosing to start with Radiant Greninja to make sure it doesn’t get prized, which has an obvious risk of running into stall or otherwise bricking, but is also a viable choice for consistency since it’s such an important card to not prize.
Legal stall strat and decking out is part of the game. This is not unfair but you need to prepare for it strat wise and deck build wise. It’s frustrating to fight against but not impossible to win against if you prepared for it.
Yeah I think Lax just capitalised on peoples lack of preparation (which was strange cause lax did make top 8 at laic) I think it has peaked but we will see!
Well said. I ❤ your final sentiment at dee end of dah vid: “Do us all a favor - don’t hate (control decks) Stop calling for cards to get banned…Jus play Pokémon and have fun…”
I’ll do jus dat - play Pokémon & have fun
This is one deck, or deck type that can do this though. I played Yugioh competitively for many years and I saw this countless times. Anytime there was a prominent meta that had evolved, generally the unfortunate side of this, is that we would have events of 2k people, with 60% playing that exact deck. However, the moment someone went outside the norm, and had a creative bone in their body to build on an idea of a deck, everyone would be frustrated because their deck was completely countered by this new creation.
tldr; TCG in general will always have decks that combat the meta, that's the risk you take when you play only what people believe are "relevant" decks and refuse to try to make something unique. I say great job to this guy for stepping outside the norm.
Control decks have always been a pain to deal with, but never have they been ban-able. People just have to learn to work around it or accept it as a bad matchup, like lost zone.
Exactly!
Cheesing Opponent 😊
Getting Cheesed by an Opponent 😡
Very accurate🤣
If this People gets to play MTG are gonna faint at the glance of a counter spell
What's a counter spell? 👀
I think instead of a ban the Pokémon Company should think of what they print, beause while control decks are inevitable, it's true that they ruin the experience for most of the casual/new players and kids, who are the main target of the enterprise. Some control and disruption cards actually add variety and fun to the game, but the key is to know when to stop. Sadly in Stellar Crown one of the cards added will be another had disruption supporter "Your oponent discards cards until they have 3 in its hand" so yeah, this maddnes of unseen combos (unseen by the developers of the game) with Snorlax, Iron Thorns and other controll Pokémon isn't going to stop soon.
Yep exactly! While it might not be the most popular it definitely isnt going anywhere!
damn. people really hating on this?
stall has been out of standard for so long and it finally being good again made me want to play again after a hiatus
Haha come get back invovled! 🙏🙌
As someone who’s recently gotten into yugioh, stall decks in Pokemon seem tame
nearly at 10k subs dude. keep it up. BTW no snorlax should ever be banned!
Getting there yeah haha! Appreciate your support! 🙌
Saw a comment about bans happening because weak egos refuse to adapt, which is a take that I can agree with, but only when a card isn't being overly oppressive or unfair. In the instance of this format, I think Stall is the wrong target, rather, we should be focused on Iron Valiant being able to KO a low HP pokemon on turn 0 if you go first and your opponent has a low HP start. No deck should be able to win before your opponent gets a turn. What are we supposed to do, play the 70 HP Pidgey that doesn't exist? Klefki? The thing has no counterplay without Klefki
Yesssss! Iron valiant is a problem! The fact you can lose a game before you've even played a card is WILD
Long live control decks! If Snorlax hits the active, you got 2 choices: beat it or stay mad!😎
Haha exactly! 😂🙌
Bruh where can I cop that sick embroidered crew neck??
Trainermart on insta :)
My man, thank you.@@BurtsPTCG
There have been soooo many decks like this in the history of the game. It is wild that this strategy is being called for a ban. Like Exeggutor/Lysandre’s Trump Card is an example of something that was truly egregious.
Blockade was absolutely brutal 😭😭
@@BurtsPTCG right! These players need some Vileplume in their life.
That will teach um :p nothing can prepare you for turn 1 item lock before uve had a chance to play a card 😂😭
I played since X and Y and my favorite was houndoom/durant bunnelby and it was so fun, yet VERY risky. I played a bunch of stall and troll decks and I can say as a player you have to make the right call and the right cards. So people actually hating snorlax baffles me.
Why is this the one deck (well, recently) needs to be banned? in fact I can say the new Iron Hands needs to be banned because it takes extra prize card and with the right combination can be up turn 1 with HP a single prize deck would struggle.
Exactly! Or iron valiant who can ko your lone 60hp pokemon before you've even played a card 😂😭
I’ve never played the tcg but seeing people ask for a ban on stall is funny, especially since stall is very popular in vgc and smogon singles, with pretty much everyone hating it.
The universal hate tying the fan base together 😂
I don't think there is anything wrong with control decks, it's good to keep things in check, and they're SOMETIMES quite interesting to see how they work.
I can see why there are issues with it being on stream, or played in local tournaments - a lot of the time you don't get to play the game, and that's not why people watch the streams, or go to play at locals!
True true but if iron valiant kovs your lone Ralts or frigibax before you've had a chance to play a card you don't get to play the game eaither 😭
@@BurtsPTCG Yeah it's very similar, at the end of the day I'm happy people playing the decks they want to play!
I think why people feel more against Control than Iron Valiant is that it falls off a bit after those early turns, so there's some give, where control doesn't peak or dip if it's doing what it needs too.
I think a lot of people are happier being donked than draw passing for 30 minutes as well.
It's definitely an interesting topic though, great video as always!
as someone who started in pokemon in like 2017, stopped for a few years and just started up again, the whole time doing locals and online tournaments for Yugioh, let me just say ever since i came back it seems like the PTCG community is giving the YGO community a run for its money with how much they're complaining these days
More then Yugioh?! Really? 👀
@@BurtsPTCG not more yet per say, but after I went back to all my old PTCG TH-cam's to find out all the new shit (I stopped playing during crimson invasion) I realized that half of the people that used to post awesome varied deck profiles and meta breakdowns just post stuff complaining about the game. I didn't really put 2 and 2 together until I saw your last couple of videos but yeah, the PTCG community is really starting to catch up with Yugioh 🤣 and that hurts me to say bc even though I played Yu-Gi-Oh for much longer I have way more respect for pokemon players
my adhd ass cant play dark souls cause theres no pause button
No pause definitely takes some getting used too 🤣
4:20 never thought I'd hear Day at the Academy! Love that track
It is a bit of a bop 😂🙌
I think no cards should be banned. If they are so annoying and 'over powered' then why doesn't everyone play them or simply adapt. Apart from that great video as always, was nice playing against you on friday.
Haha good point actually! 😂😂 And you too buddy! 🙌
Mad good stuff friend! Your stories have been awesome
Ayo! Appreciate it my guy! 🙌🙏
The deck just isn't fun to play against. I feel it is only fun for the pilot and that is it. Do I think any cards need to be banned? No, because it is part of the game. Anyone who wants to play the deck are free to do so, and if they have fun with it, then that is fine by me. I will just be honest and say I will not have any fun playing against it whatsoever. Nothing against the player either. It just isn't fun. I don't know how people can choose to watch it being played either unless they also play the deck. Only my opinion though. Bottom line, play what is fun to you. If you like stall, and I play you in a tournament, I may not have a ton of fun playing that match up, but that is ok. Glad you are there.
Very sensible conclusion! 🙏
Dude, love your content. It’s very evergreen and interesting. Keep up the good work and positive vibes!
That's the idea! Appreciate your support my friend! 🙌
Control is a valid archetype, people just need to adapt.
What I dislike is the current Block Snorlax art. The Plasma one looked way more menacing.
Exactly! And ur right! Plasma snorlax was much more scary :p
I really don't understand the hate for Block Snorlax. It requires a high skill level to execute the lock and most decks should have multiple options to break it naturally.
People just don't like to be punished for their misplays and/or uneconomical use of their resources. Decks like Doll Stall or Vileplume (any of them!) or any of the crazy Turn Ones you used to be able to execute were so much more problematic than needing to add more gust and switch to your deck.
Everyone's focusing on the finals and all respect to Erin for advancing that far, but he did himself zero favors in a brutal match up for his list. I was very glad to see you highlight the previous week's stream game with Lost Tina where the control player was routed. That type of balance is why it's such a great time to play right now!
Yeah t1 Plume before uve had a chance to play a card was madness 🤣
I feel as though I struggle to understand why Snorlax should be banned in a metagame where you can get a turn two charizard that can accelerate energies to itself with arguably less effort than calculated stall play, and there's probably way more examples for far more "broken" cards than Snorlax right now. Either way, any problems with the game as it stands are not due to snorlax stall.
Ikr! Like Melo can still drop 240.damage t1 and iron valiant can ko your lone 60hp pokemon before uve had a chance to play a card! But lax is the card that needs to get banned 😂😭
@@BurtsPTCG I feel as though generally the metagame is ridiculously fast paced, and this seems to have gradually increased over the years. If games were generally slower, more methodical affairs like years ago then nobody would bat an eyelid at this snorlax deck.
@mattutter3525 seems like a fair assessment I think!
The main issue I see is how big of a joke energy acceleration has become. I won’t hold anything over Baxcalibur because ‘rain dance’ cards have been around since the literal base set, and it’s balanced by the need to have the energies in your hand in the first place. Charizard ex is stupid, because you can just conjure 3 energies and accelerate them however you want. And because its attack only needs two energies to function, it can set itself up as well as a benched attacker (because at that point, you can still attach an energy for the turn). Two ways I’d balance it would be if it can’t accelerate to any Charizard ex’s, or make all 3 go to the same Pokémon, similar to how PikaRom functions. Next is Electric Generator which is also stupid, because it’s an ITEM card that can accelerate a potential 2 energies. Because it’s also on a reveal system, it makes it way too highroll-y, frustrating your opponent when it works, and frustrating the user when it doesn’t. Just toxic design for that one. Elesa’s Sparkle, while not as bad as the previous one, is incredibly obnoxious because all attacks utilizing Fusion Strike Energy count for the ones attached to all of the Pokémon in play, as well as the fact that FSE blocks abilities, covering up yet another weakness that Mew VMAX should have, but (unsurprisingly) doesn’t. Sada’s Vitality is in a similar boat to Elesa’s Sparkle, but is much worse because it can draw 3 cards on top of its effect. The point of “draw 3 cards and ____” cards is that they’re not supposed to be a direct upgrade to the standard “draw 3” cards, as there’s a reason as to why one wouldn’t want to use it. Worker can get rid of your own helpful stadiums, and Avery can give your opponent an opportunity to get rid of dead weight like Lumineon V. And finally we have Gardevoir ex, which is probably the most balanced of these. At least with this one, you need to discard the energy, and you damage the target when accelerating. It’s powerful, but not overpowered. All in all, if they stop adding stupid ways to artificially speed up games, things would be a lot better.
If you read the whole thing, I’m sorry. I really didn’t mean for this to be so long!
@@TwilightChomperEnthusiast You know, I was having this discussion with my friend as well, I think it's a valid point. Baxcalibur is fine in a vacuum but Cien Pao makes it stupid at the best of times... Having decks that accelerate energy wouldn't be so bad if there was downsides/costs to it, or if generally pokemon did less damage, which is where I feel the other problem lies. So many pokemon can swing for well over 100 damage, sometimes for just 2 energy, and when weakness is a factor then most things are in KO range at all times. I'd personally prefer if generally attacks of 100+ were more reserved for high cost and/or drawback attacks for risk/reward. This means that in a format currently dominated by massive HP eX cards, you'd have more chance of using single-prizer decks including stage 2's.
I get that if you play a Snorlax Stall deck, it takes a delicate touch of skill to play it. But it is playing solitaire when you should be playing poker. You are sitting something in the active and systematically making it so your opponent can't play the game. It is not fun for the opponent of a Snorlax deck to play because they get to do nothing but sit in a chair for a half an hour and mill through their deck. I welcome different types of playstyles, but locking your opponent out so that they don't get to play the game is admittedly a degenerate playstyle. If I could choose a deck to play against between Snorlax Stall or Lost Box, which was previously my least favorite deck to play against, I would pick Lost Box every day of the week. Because at least I get to play and interact instead of watching someone play solitaire. I won't say it should be banned. What I will say is that the people who play it don't want their opponents to play the game, which is true on a fundamental level.
Well both things can be true I guess 😂
If they want decks that can viably use alternate win conditions, stall really wasn’t the answer. If anything, they should have at least made an aggressive mill card/engine so you can rip through the opponent’s deck instead of the slow, painful death by killing one card per turn-from your opponent’s draw at the start.
No one is saying that. People is saying that non interactive gameplay is unhealthy for any game.
If you didn't see the issue in one player refusing to play the game & passing over and over again is an issue.
The tweets I had in the video then? 👀🤣
Just finding out Pokemon has no side deck, and admitedly only a surface level understanding of the game, how is it reasonable to expect every player play every out to every rogue strategy they may encounter? And that "may" is a key point here, because you may not and top decking such a card in a crucial moment can cause you a game you otherwise would have had a chance in. A well balanced game leaves it up to chance as little as possible, so if a strategy requires you to "draw the out" in time it's often times not well liked and I cannot blame anyone honestly.
You don't/can't tech for everything at the same time and the idea of a deck like mew Vmax that could now have a side board is very scary 😭
Snorlax control is admittedly frustrating. But the moment I dealt with one I immediately started trying to think of ways to counter it and came to the conclusion that alakazam ex is the perfect counter to it. It's not impossible to fight stall ya just have to think of using cards that are outside normal use. It presents variety to the game. As it stands I think the meta is very healthy with all the variety all these decks present
I agree 100%! A healthy game is where all these decks can shine 🙌
There are a handful of cards that NEED a ban. Lost Box and Snorlax for sure need a ban. I came from a YGO/MTG background and they ban cards in their games’ formats to keep the formats healthy until another broken strategy comes.
Interesting, why do you think Lost box needs a ban? 👀
@@BurtsPTCG It is too OP and so annoying to deal with. They set up too fast.
I dont understand the point of cheating in a game "easy" to play.
👀
great video, dark souls comparison is on point!!
Ayo appreciate you! 🙌🙏
1:58 wrong snorlax bro right?
Was interested to see if anyone would notice 👀🤣
Feels like the "ban control" arguments come around whenever a non-meta control deck tops! Guys we can't just attach 5 energies per turn and swing with every deck in the game, we need some variety hahah
Haha exactly this! Imagine the absolute horror of that 😂😂
Lost box is worse than snorlax, people are just salty about their favorite deck isn't winning even when it cost so much more than this deck
I've not had a lot of time against Snorlax, but I only realized the importance of the switch cards when it was too late and the deck I was playing against had so many outs before I could find mine, the salt just took over. I also detest Dark Souls as a franchise because of what I perceive as a punishment where if you die twice and lose all your progress.
I really like your perspective here. I'm sure with more practice, I could find a way around it. It just doesn't feel fair in the moment because I expect my opponent to actually do something in the same sense that I am. There's way more going on behind the scenes than we may realize. Plus in a format with Iron Valiant being built around switching, it'll find it's match, but for the time being, every game deserves control playstyles. Control feels better than flat out stall, but at least there's something for everyone in this game.
I think thats a sensible way of looking at it! I think its at its peak of popularity and will only go down from here 🙏
@@BurtsPTCG Getting called sensible from someone who can make a video this well produced and thought out really just made my day. For someone who knows their stuff to suggest I'm on the right track means a lot. Thank you so much.
Ayo! Your too kind! 🙏 It's always refreshing to have a sensible well thought out comment so you made my day haha! Hope to see you in the comments again soon!🙌
@@BurtsPTCG Thank you. I'll be around for sure. You can count on that. I've been poking my head into Pokemon TCG off and on since the Sword and Shield era (specifically Rebel Clash/Darkness Ablaze) but I didn't really start digging in and building decks until Obsidian Flame. I feel more confident now about knowing some of the interactions or at least picking up on what casters such as yourself mention during games. It has been a blast so far, but I haven't had much of a chance to compete though I do try to play online every day when I can. Primarily I like collecting the rewards, but it's also fun to evolve as a player. Taking frustrations in stride and using losses as learning experiences are some of the best parts of TCGs. Stall is just one more strategy I'm gonna have to try my best against or look forward to rotation lol. The next one will be my first as a player. It's a little intimidating, but that's what channels like this one are for.
Imma need a link to that sweater.
Trainermart on insta! 🙌
Do I hear enchanted arms music? I absolutely love it.
Haha you do! I never finished it tho can't lie 😂
All meta decks are annoying. That’s what keeps us coming back. Lugias annoying iron valiants annoying snorlax is annoying.. all good decks are annoying to go against.
Haha this is very true! Silver tempest format Lugia was too much 😂😭
another BANGER of a video. Personally, i think control decks are a healthy part of the format. Playing against this deck and playing it myself, I think the only card that I think is unfair is pidgeot V since they can put it back into their deck on the turn they bench it, really no interaction. Other than that, i find the control deck to be absolutely badass
Pidgeot is a bit good all things considered yeah! 🙌 Appreciate your support! 🙌
Lol Lukasz paired 3 Charizards in cut. Gl replicating that one
Arceus was smiling down 😂
now we just need wugtrio to be good
Haha! Now we are talking 😂
"Just play Minior" is simply a bad take if you want to argue that Snorlax stall is not bad for the game. Pokemon has recently developed a habit of introducting overpowered cards and then adding tech cards afterwards, but now I am supposed to play Manaphy, Jirachi and Minior just to tech for different (otherwise losing) matchups? This simply hurts consistency and makes more and more decks fall behind the few decks that do not need these tech cards in the respective matchups, which therefore decreases meta diversity. Alternatively, many players could (and probably will) decide to not play these tech cards, and will therefore have a true losing matchup, which also is extremely bad for the game.
By the way, who in their right mind would argue that such a thing is "good for the game" if a vast percentage of players know, as soon as the opponents flips over the cards, that they will experience an hour of hopeless misery, in which they actually will not play the game and will spend most their time passing? I would, personally, not even call that a game, to be honest.
Many people also say: "Deckout is a valid win condition, so why shouldn't there be a deck that trys to achieve it?" Here, I think it is important to emphasize the difference between mill (with some disruption) and stall. While mill decks try to deck you out while disrupting you, they still let you play the game, which will nevertheless make fun. With pure stall decks, this is not the case: No player is actually playing really, especially if the disruption does not require any effort. Before, the disrupting player had to find the perfect cards every turn to keep the disruption going, but now there is a change: With Snorlax, the stall is constantly active, while the player being stalled is in the position to find the perfect cards to even have a chance to play (with many decks not even having a reasonable way of playing enough useful cards for this matchup). Additionally, if you manage to knock a Snorlax out, the effort needed to get it running again is minimal. This makes Snorlax stall bad for the game, since there is usually no way to win against Snorlax if you have a bad matchup against it.
Who said "just play minor"? 👀 Not me!
@@BurtsPTCG Everyone else does, and you said it as well: "People know about it, and if people really wanted to they could play minior". This implies, that you are supposed to tech for this matchup with minior if you "respect" the deck and would otherwise have a losing matchup.
@marcfelix1006 play spirittomb instead then its better 👍
How ?
Fantastic video I saw you upload and I was like I got to watch this. Since I'm just getting back into collecting building my collection and then working on building a deck of the future this is fascinating to watch. A controlling deck sounds like you're watching a sniper set up to take a one shot kill. Since the control deck just controls it and it forces the opponent to just lose I think it's fascinating to watch grab your popcorn
Ayo thank you so much! And that's an interesting way of thinking about it yeah 🙌
Caturday mill? When did Caturday get a mill card? It's always been a nuke the bench type deck
Search it on limitless! Was used loads but Sander popularised it 🙌
@BurtsPTCG couldn't find it on limitless but I found a video on it. It's not caturday. It's Persian and oranguru the only caturday card is they chose to use the arguably more useful caturday meowth over other meowths.
limitlesstcg.com/decks/list/3391 i remember watching this Deck in action, caturday was used to draw cards🙏
Uh, no.
Dark Souls works because YOU decide that YOU want to play it. You start the game up and are up for the challenges that it presents. Nobody out here forces you to play that game if you don't want it. That doesn't work in PTCG - you can and probably will get matched up against playstyles you absolutely despise through no fault of your own. If you like a certain deck that's weak to them - well tough fucking luck, you can't have fun with it.
i feel like one of not many lucky ones that enjoys a deck that doesn't get too dumpstered by the stall bs in klawf/electrode v stuff.
Long live Klawf
@@BurtsPTCG
i sat on it a bit more and i have to respectfully say that I disagree with Dark Souls comparison even more.
First of all is what I have already mentioned - nobody forces me, you or anyone to play Dark Souls if they do not want to. This is a completely different game - Pokemon Trading Card Game. I did not sign up to play against any stall by accepting its ToS.
However, even if it was perfectly okay and without any problems whatsoever (more on that later), you can lose in Dark Souls and it will lead to you knowing more about your enemy... but you can also retry that battle, and only that battle - not the whole game - without any consequences. The same cannot be said about losing a tournament game to this. No matter how well prepared you come to it, PTCG is ultimately also a game of chance. You can have your planned tech stuck in prizes or at the bottom of your deck without a chance of getting it. All players can do is do their best to mitigate the chance of this happening, but it cannot be completely nullified in certain lists. In Dark Souls you can study the exact patterns of enemies to respond accordingly and, eventually, after several trials and errors, you will take down said enemy. However, no matter how many times you prepare for a stall deck, through no fault of your own, you can lose to it, including losing a tournament game.
Of course, because of the nature of the deck you're up against, any attempt at playing to win in this situation is a lot harder, if not impossible. While you could argue that for every game lost to getting prize-locked, at the very least other playstyles do not actively hinder your attempts at getting unstuck. Pokemon is unique in this situation compared to other games - the sheer concept of prizes makes it so. This is why I believe something like stall should never have any place to exist here. Some forms of disruption are acceptable, but an outright debilitation shouldn't be a thing.
it doesnt matter what you think, if people find it boring to watch then you can gas it up all you want but its still boring
People find getting their lone ralts ko'd t1 via Iron valiant before they played a card boring. Lets ban that too then shall we?
It's like when that big poketuber didn't understand he was playing against a control deck and complained about it. Only to get ripped to shreds by the TCG community lol
Im not familiar with that! Who was it? 👀
@@BurtsPTCG aDrive lol
sorry for wanting to have fun my mistake it wont happen again
Do you want Snorlax to be banned then? 👀
still looks more fun than current day YGO
Haven't been keeping up with yugioh much recently! What's it like? 👀
@@BurtsPTCG I don't play it myself, but from the looks of it the amount of combos you need to set up in one turn and having to be 6 parallel universes ahead of your opponent, and especially crud like timing and other vaguely defined but specific wording is...not ideal, to say the least
there's a reason that there haven't been any new players coming in for a while
As an alakazam ex player, its a great time to be alive lol
Must be feasting! 🙌
Block lax is good for the game encourages more deck designs. Now the lax player needs to be smart. Most meta decks have plenty of outs to it
Yep I agree! And now the Meta develops 🙏
I kinda like this development. Personally, I hate the "this pokemon is just here to sit on the bench and look pretty" obsession in the competative meta. Another deck taking advantage of the glaring weakness that presents is always welcome.
And a basic strategy that wouldn't work against most non-meta relevant decks just shows how stupid the competative scene is too.
Yeah! Having a downside to bench sitters outside of just being ko'd is interesting 👀
Just play 1 Mew ex from 151. Without hp buffs on their side you ohko their Snorlax with their attack, ko Mimikyu with it's attack to bypass it's ability and you 2 shot Crabominable V with it's attack or mill them. It may not be a perfect answer in all situations but it's a generally good card overall against other decks too and could help you in the Snorlax Stall matchup
Sounds pretty decent can't lie!
This take is a bit weird. The issue is not that people do not have attackers to knock out Snorlax, but that the Snorlax player forces other Pokemon into the active spot. How would one copy of Mew help at all in this case?
@@marcfelix1006 it's not just Snorlax but not all decks have an answer for Mimikyu and Mew ex would help with that. Like I said it's not perfect but imo a much better 1 card tech than Minior. And you can play around Erika and EHorn sometimes with a good hand.
@michielschrauwen Spiritomb is probably the best answer imo, stops them drawing and can return itself to hand if they gust it 🙏
@@BurtsPTCG True if you want to build your deck to beat Snorlax Stall definitely the best. I brought up Mew ex because it has uses against a wider variety of decks rather than Spiritomb or Minior especially if you have energy acceleration for it. But like the video also showed if you don't want to play techs against it pray you dodge it😉
it's the same in every tcg -> deck get's good, players can't find a counter to this deck -> BANN PLS it's BROKEN!!!!!!11111
give it a few month -> creative players FIND counters to this deck -> and bam
The ban cycle 😂
as a yugioh player who went through mystic mine format, skill issue
Mystic mine is/was such banter 😂😭
i have an acerola full art
Love that!
Pokemon players are so spineless about non autopilot decks
Are you a yugioh player?👀
Sounds like there was a few counters to this , but he talked about the limited number of card slots and apparently nobody paid enough respect to this strat in the whole tourney.
Thems the breaks! No need to ban. Different types of decks are what make things fun!
Definitely seems that way! 🙌
This is kinda similar to Hbox’s Jigglypuff in Smash Melee
Im not familiar! Could i get a tldr? 👀
@@BurtsPTCG typically Smash Melee is played super fast and aggressive and it’s mostly why it’s so popular but Hbox (Hungry box) was the only top player to play a very slow and defensive style and won a lot. People were crying for Bans of his character Jigglypuff who is oddly enough a Pokémon also soft and lovable like Snorlax! :D
@GarredHATES oh i see! Now that is strange and doesn't sound warrented 😂😭
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
Polska piało czerwony!
What does that mean? 👀
@@BurtsPTCG th-cam.com/video/XPrNsZwcJis/w-d-xo.htmlsi=9gU1Zv6UqIF-FHB3
BAN MIMIKYU&GENGAR GX.
The game won't stop spamming it against me.
Gengar mimi was wild!
Echoing horn’s leaving in like 3 months anyway
Fantastic point!
we love you burt
Aha! Appreciate you! 🙏🙌