"Electricians won't want to touch your existing consumer unit" Really? Ask any electrician worth their salt and they will make a balanced decision on what to do based on the following factors: - Age and condition of existing consumer unit - Brand of charge point recommended and what protection it has built into it (i.e. some cheap charge points don't have PEN fault protection built in so a separate O-PEN device will be needed) - Customer budget. Some houses have a brand new consumer unit with an SPD and often it would make no sense to fit a separate consumer unit in that case. Dedicated Type A RCD protection with double pole isolation is required for EV charge points so if your brand of consumer unit does not make double pole RCBO's then you may need a separate dedicated EV consumer unit, but often we would offer to upgrade the main house consumer unit if it is old and doesn't comply with modern regs. Good electricians will take a holistic approach to an installation rather than some of these national "EV Installer" companies who ignore what is there and quote the kind of "standard install" prices that you are mentioning. More often than not these installs get lashed in with no care an attention and many times we get called back to repair or replace these - resulting in an overall higher cost to the customer in the end vs just going with a decent installer who quotes a reasonable price in the first place. Unfortunately in this video you are setting very unrealistic expectations for customers about how much a decent install costs.
As an electrician that runs a company that installs EV chargers points, please be aware we have to install these to the latest regulations. It’s not correct to say electricians split the tails and install an additional fuse onboard to avoid getting involved with other peoples work. We need an SPD (surge protective device, a Type A RCBO and the installation’s additional load needs to be applied to the DNO to get permission to connect them to the grid. All the EV charge points we install have load limiting so it will nearly always get a YES back from the DNO. This is a legal requirement so needs doing. A lot of the comments sound like they aren’t being installed to the correct regulations and as a business, we would never do this. I hear feedback from clients saying they have got it installed cheaper and it’s usually as they haven’t installed to the latest regs of got the correct approval from the DNO. With electrics, you tend to get what you pay for. Hopefully this comment will be taken as helpful advice and not as a general moan lol.
@@MikeGleesonazelectrics It's not to do with the regs, more to do with the DNO. UKPN are getting stricter and stricter, if you did have two electric showers and wanted to add an EVCP you'd be looking to have three phase installed. All at a cost, of course.
@@MikeGleesonazelectricsmaximum demand calculation, unless you have Garo board and electric shower don’t run at full power for up to 6 hours. Also the Regs/Standards are a minimum, you should working above them, always.
@@NicolasRaimoand your video is contributing to the mindset of the race to the bottom by quoting these absolute terrible figures mate, honestly think you shouldn’t have done this video, live and learn, I’m sure you weren’t intending to cause any insult but I would just delete this video and maybe do one with an EV installer to get their take on the overall costs and variables, your not an electrician so you were likely just quoting these figures on bad data.
The reason some electricians don’t like fitting ev chargers to existing consumer units is because the regs say it should have surge protection and be on a dedicated circuit not on a cheap plastic dual rcd consumer unit with type AC rcds
Well thats a disappointing video. Pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Spending that much on a car to haggle over the safety critical part that could burn your house down seems mad. But then, so is the average ev driver.......
Every customer is different, Evs start used from under 4k, even the ones brought for £££ as you say are leased on monthly payments offset by fuel costs. My figure as I said is for the basic typical install of outdoor DNO cabinet, 5 meter run box on wall nothing too complex as I said start of video ev chargers costs can run from anything to anything depending on the complexity of the job and I agree some EV installs which are installing for £600 I saw the other day I'd expect you get a rough as install.
@NicolasRaimo I appreciate the video didn't have any malice behind it but it's rather misleading for people watching this. Perhaps you could do a little video where you get 3 quotes for a standard charger somewhere. At least then you have an average realistic price.
@@John_Faultless rightcharge, octopus, podpoint 3 with lower averages, don’t think it’s fair to give name of independents based on abuse and bullying I’ve received and they likely would
Don’t forget the costs of running the latest transit custom van and time taken to slag off any existing electrics that has been working quite happily for the last 25 years……
How disappointing, one area of the market swamped by cheap and poor installs torn apart to make it look like the honest hard working sparks are ripping people off. As a business our daily operating costs for our business are £350 and thats what our T&Cs say and what we charge our customers. When we install a charger theres the quote (free) Travel to site 1 hours time on site (Aprox) Time in the office getting prices, working out materials, pricing and submitting a quote. Waiting on acceptance then theres the DNO notifications Then travel to site. Usually up-to a days work on site Then travel back Then time doing the admin in the office certs, notifications part p and DNO again. What you fail to misunderstand is the years of electrical knowledge, training, insurance, business operating costs, calibration of testers, tools maintenance etc. We are really battling against the likes of octopus energy who are bulk buying chargers at wholesale cost and then sending out installers at £100 a time for a really poor install i myself have given up on the EV market it was never a money maker for us and only install of asked but don’t actively seek to install them anymore because of videos like this and massive corporations squishing the little man. Its like Tescos Vs the Farm-shop
How the hell can you assume that a 'fair estimate' for an electricians labour to fit an EV charger and all relevant cables, protective devices etc.. is around £100...!! Also you are placing a general expectation that us electricians can fit 2x EV chargers a day! You give your very poorly calculated numbers to potential customers, that will use these figures as expectations for more involved jobs.
This is so full of ignorant errors. I stopped EV installs because of nonsense like this. As far as I'm concerned, EV owners prepared to pay £60k for a car but too cheap to pay for a compliant installation on their own home are fully welcome to the world of cowboys out there. Yeah, pay someone a ton for labour on an EV chargepoint that's active while you and your family sleep at night. Don't worry about how they were able to do it so cheaply!
The £900 install price I gave was for a bolt charge on the wall about 10 meters of cable run and drilling threw one external wall... Of coruse some jobs will be longer and priced accordingly for time spent on site, If your booking 2 local jobs in the area 2 chargers in a day should be more than possible. I also left a buffer margin on the misc costs for tax, national insurance etc... 260 working days in a year... £200x260= £52,000
@@NicolasRaimo The Information Torpedo channel already sunk your arguments. You're just another EV owner who thinks they know everything about electrical installations because they took a loose interest in what charges their chariot. So, what, you saw a few TH-cam videos and that now makes you qualified on the costing and complexity of domestic chargepoint installations? Okay smart guy, so come onto the Electrician's Podcast channel and tell the world all about it. Jamie and Sam are ready as your hosts and there are a bunch of people in the live chat willing to support your statements... if they're sound.
Watching & reading i can see that there is a deep lack of understanding about what efforts and legal requirements go into an electrical installation.. i would suggest that people trying to pass comment on how much things should cost are not sparky's but just cheap-skates that think every thing is just "ow bash a cable in there and done" but its not even close to that simple.
My an Easee charger has been connected straight to my distribution board. They just added an 40amp fuse to the empty space in the fuse distribution board. The guy said that it is not needed to do the tails for that installation and to put a new fuse box because it's just a 7.4 KW charger. He said that my cooker is using more KW than that and no one is panicking about it. One year gone and so far so good.
An ev charger circuit should have a double pole rcd/rcbo protection. If the existing consumer unit has a spare way to fit one and the unit is reasonably up to date ie metal, it should not be an issue. The rcbo is at £20 Inc vat and takes about 15 mins to fit. A separate box Inc an SPD is about £75. The cable to the charger is another issue and depends on the run but if there's a decent garage supply it should be relatively easy, of course all very relative. I can understand a reluctance to alter an existing board if its a mess, an electrical condition report should ideally be done on the whole installation. However I have never charged more than £200 total to install a charger, not incl the charger.
I asked Ocotpus if they would swap my old charger to a new one following the closure of my car manufacturers api. They wanted the full whack price and would not discount the installation, despite everything being there from their previous installer and it being potentially a half hour job. I bought the charger from a wholesaler and had a local ev installer fit it for £100, saved £400.
The cost of the installation is outrageous for generally what is a pretty straightforward electrical job. Not using the existing fuse board seems insanely cautious. Not to mention most wiring can be tested if there are doubts. My father an electrician was visiting from Canada so I had install an EV charger on the todo list for him (to make sure he wasn't bored 😁). Sadly the wiring to the garage wasn't sufficient and due to the fact it's buried under my resin patio (where I have no idea) so he upgraded the socket in the garage and we are making due with that.
The problem is the IET refuses to do any work* so they just leave it to the manufacturers to decide what is compatible with what, and the result is that you basically often have to throw away the fuse box to meet the latest electrical requirements. * or it's possibly corruption (I'm not totally sure)
You forgot to mention that the device EVs plug into is not actually a charger. It is just a special connection with lots of safety gadgets in it that provides power to the car. Charging is done within the car Not by the wall box.
The charger is in the ev itself, an “ev charger” is just a power socket with some safety circuits. If it were chargers the price would have made sense. For smart outdoor power sockets it’s just crazy
Oh dear, if you knew why EV chargers have a section to themselves in the Regs book, then you would realise how dangerous a faulty condition could be. EV Chargers are a Special Location Section for reason.
@@liberatodelgreco4430 because they pass high currents and therefore create heaps of heat when breaching resistance which can lead to electrical fires ? I don’t see why that would legitimise the price though… your wheelnuts play an essential role in your safety too yet you’d be scratching your head if you get charged a couple hundred bucks for them with the explanation that they need to be up to spec for your safety..
Wow Nick, I am on average €500 for an EV install with the customer buying their preferred charger their selves. I did one that took 2/3 days once and cost 1500 install charge. However we do have to always supply a certificate for the full installation here if adding a circuit.
You are not supposed to fit anything inside the external meter box. So technically splitting the tails and putting something in the box is a no no. I doubt anyone cares though.
Brought an old tethered pod-point off eBay £150, some 6mm T&E cost £50, 40A MCB £20, replaced RCD with type AC £40. If some spark wanted to spilt my supply at the meter I'd tell him to sod off, I have a decent consumer unit with plenty of space put in for a reason. I see you can buy brand-new Masterplug units for £400/450 from screwfix now, I expect we will see those go lower.
Did you consider the earthing? Do you know what happens in the even of a neutral fault? Your car body could go live at 240volts. Neutral supply faults are not that uncommon so maybe when you go to your car don’t grab the handle but touch it with the back of your hand. Hope you’re ok and never have a problem mate.
@@sausagemcgregory Size of the MCB is dependent on the size (cross section) of the cable run to the charger. The current tripping of the MCB/RCBO protects the cable run to the charger. It's fine to fit 40amp if you have a cable run on 6mm or greater, in fact its advisable as I've seen some 32A breakers be twitchy or burn out with a continuous 32A load over time. Also latest regs state the MCB/RCBO should be a dual pole type, that is it cuts off both live and neutral. Type A is also a minimum, although type B is advisable (although hard to obtain). As you say, PEN fault protection either at the CU end or the charger is mandatory.
@@davideyres955 It's on a driveway with a wooden fence, the only exposed metal conductor anywhere around is a gas pipe that's bonded to the electrical system so you'd do well to give yourself a fatal shock during a PEN fault. Assume you've applied the same level of concern to all your outside lighting. Point is this is safer than a granny charger and inside what I can afford to spend. My EVSE pre-dates mandatory PEN fault protection and I don't come from the school of thought you throw things away as they are slightly out of date.
EV chargers have sod all inside them. You could replicate it with a 25A connector, a raspberry Pi Pico, a few yards of cable, a socket and a box, oh and 300 unnecessairly bright LEDs. I don't mind paying a Sparky for their skills and their costs, but the boxes themselves are a rip off.
They are way more than a pi and some LED they contain clever electrics like PEN fault, DC leakage and other bits and bobs they are also tested to IK10, and IP65 minimum
@@NicolasRaimo a few power diodes and a transistor. Basically the boxes are empty, it’s only 7kW AC max and the breakers only need to break an AC current.
They are not chargers, they are just an electric vehicle supply equipement (EVSE), the charger is in your car and I don't care how you try to justify the cost they are well over priced. I installed mine for less than 200€, yes doesn't have wifi but my car has lte/wifi and an app so can control and program all i need from there.
UK regs require smart EVSE, you aren't allowed to rely on the EV owner using EV smart controls. It's not about the user's convenience, it's about minimising effects on the grid
An EV has a battery which can deliver a lethal voltage under fault conditions, not only to the owner but to neighbours. Most household appliances don't include a power source that can be fed back into the supply, hence the need for sophisticated fault protection.
Everything in your house can deliver a lethal voltage under fault conditions. I think most of the additional cost has more to do with building apps and sophisticated communications to comply with grid regulations. The only thing I can see different about an EVSE is PEN fault detection which is a UK specific thing.
@MikeGleesonazelectrics an EV charger is outside the eqipotential zone, in the rare ish event of a PEN fault, you'd be generally safe INSIDE your house, however when operating an outdoor device you'd generally be in contact with the general mass of earth.
@@seanthespark If the supply neutral is cut, on a TNCS system the return to neutral would then be diverted down the earth wire as the installation neutral is connected to it; hence every appliance connected via the cpc would become live, yes? This is my understanding of why there must be a pen fault detector.. on other systems eg TT it wouldnt be a problem.
@@NicolasRaimo yea I want a box out don’t want it in the meter box. If I get a box could I also have an outside socket coming off it or would it be for the Ev only ?
I'm guessing 80% of people have a nonstandard home / electricity supply. My meter is under my kitchen table concealed inside a kitchen bench/seat. The space is so small that the leccy company won't even fit a smart meter. I'd need ground works, a pole mounted charger and works to bring the leccy into the adjacent cupboard. I'll just stick to the granny charger on an industrial extension from the garage with its own consumer unit.
Looking to partex my podpoint solo 2 for a charger that's intelligent compatible. Would the new charger be able to use the existing cabling and CT clamp? It's taking an irritatingly long time for podpoint to get their act together, so which is the cheapest intelligent compatible unit? Thanks.
Try Ohme they have two options and they rely on 3G/4G connectivity. However, Ohme only cover this cost for the first three years. This device should be able to be commissioned with your existing cabling. Get a local electrician who knows EVCP's to take a look for you.
People spend at least 25K for an EV but all the sudden can’t afford a few thousand for the charger… Come on people this is not the time to be cheap. Unless the idea of your house catching on fire while you’re asleep interests you, it’s probably not a good idea to buy a budget charger and pretend you’re an amateur electrician. I think we’re going to start seeing people dying because of this. This isn’t like replacing the cord on your lamp.
@@liberatodelgreco4430 current there are 22,695 used electric cars for sale on autotrader of which 1005 are under £10k and a 3572 under £15,000 and 9401 under the £25k Calvin said they cost at least there’s around 200 just under £5000
My first thought is that people that drive less than 30 miles per day could just get by with using a 3-pin plug to slow charge their cars. Now I need to go watch Nicolas' other video on the subject! 😎
GREAT! Send me your electricians details please, I'm yet to meet one that works bank holidays and has no annual leave as you sugest. Must be very efficient to be able to run around doing all these quotes, scoping out the materials, back and forwards to the wholesalers, filling out paperwork, phoning DNOs, testing and issuing certificates and still being able to do 520 (!!) EV chargers in a year with no business overheads/expenses. You're living in cloud cuckoo land and honestly doing a disservice to the industry and to your viewers here mate. You have some good videos but you've really missed the mark here
Are you an electrician? One of the main costs of installing an ev charger is the training costs, qualification, insurance, etc of the installer. This is complete nonsense. No self employed electrician can run a business at 100 a half day. What about vat and profit. Spent 30 years as a finance director and restructuring companies. Dont know what you do for a living but probably work for someone else, never had to run a small business. Someone says you sell cars. Well I guarantee you that you are putting a lot more than 70 pounds. Nonsense
I 100% agree with you but that's the going rate for people fitting EV chargers currently, its why most EV chargers are chucked in and very little thought goes into the design process like hiding cables occurs, I rang 2 local firms and 2 national firms prices ranged and the average was the £900 figure used in the video some were less however most expensive local EV charger installer quoted £1200. This video stated if I were a spark I wouldn't be fitting EV chargers. The firms scaled for this do 2 a day and the staff outlay is £200 not once did I say this is a fair figure for a self-employed person. £200 a day by the way works out £52,000 a year wage.
@@NicolasRaimo your analysis is rubbish. Octopus obviously absorb a substantial amount of the labour cost as they want the electric contact. Any analysis by an "expert" should have reflected that. The Octopus model is something for the competition authority. Your "analysis" is just so bad bedt to do is just take it down and do it properly as it makes you look like you don't know what you are talking about.
@@brianoneill350 octopus wasn’t the cheapest… others undercut it who don’t sell you electric at all. This argument octopus sell you a charger cheap to benefit from electric is silly if that was true other companies wouldn’t be charging less and not benefit from any long term service
I can tell you now electricians are idiots when it comes to pricing, for some reason they feel the need to give away their skills for next to nothing. This sector is a race to the bottom and the customer isn't get ripped off, they are however on a lot of occasions getting crap installs. They use a separate board mostly because it's quicker, and you are not meant to mount anything in the meter box as that belongs to the dno despite what anyone will tell you, the dno can make you remove any equipment you install in there. As for the devices you mention they are not exclusive to EVs, and unless a manufacturer specifically requests certain things they don't need to be installed. You can get a BG charger for £329 plus vat, you didn't mention vat in your costing EV ultra cable is around £6 P/m plus vat. Also, if a person can afford to pay upwards of £40k on a car they can afford £1500 to charge the thing, especially when they are only paying 5% vat on their fuel and no fuel duty so in all they don't have it too bad really.
I'm not sure your information is correct . Let's take going to wholesaler, so he is only going for your items. Let's face it that bul.sh.t. I said to my sparks can you match octopuses price he said thats easy .
your conflating employed and self employed considerations to arrive at a very poor presentation of the installers reality, coupled with a bit of a mismash oversimplification of the install itself. You should seek sponsorship from Octopus 👷♀
@@NicolasRaimo not disputing the overall figures as such, more concerns such as discussing outsourcing labour to cheaper suppliers or DIYing things like running cable without mentioning pertinent Building Reg sections etc. Perhaps a mention of the things that could wrong and potential outcomes. I get what you are trying to do with this video but it could do with an edit
I had an electrican quote me £1350 for the same job octopus did for £900. He wanted to charge me £400 just for cabling that had built in network cabling even though the charger had 4g connection. I could have bought cable for £80. Maybe it was those diamond tipped cable clips he was going to use. Even the charger unit itself he managed to add £150 on top of the price i could have for it for inc vat. Typical money grabbing tradesmen these days.
@@dsesuk they did exactly what the electrician had quoted for. They spent 5 hours doing it and did a very neat job. Even clipped in my existing cabling along with it.
The thing you seem to be missing is Octopus are using these jobs as lead losses hoping the masses use them and sign up to their ev tarrif. The proper electrician that quoted your job doesn't have the buying power a large company does.
@@Paulruk They didn't, it seems, because you say they used a different cable. And how would you know the the tech spec of what the electrician had in mind? They, like me, wouldn't have put the supply in the meter box as that's not permitted, but that's probably what Octopus did. How do you know what's a proper job? Are you qualified to know? If so, do it yourself.
No mate we don’t this is the worst break down of all time Nick has dropped the ball. No spark on this planet worth he’s salt is charging a 100 to fit a ev socket. Think of it this way if a customer calls me and they need a light fitting changed that’s £50 minimum charge.
@@fatsamelectrical Sam what you charging for an EV install? If it’s more than the £850 quoted for everyone online then yes of course your charging more than that for labour but many sparks are under £900 for an install and I agree it’s wrong
How dare you assume how much we should earn, how about I say to you should only make £100 profit on that used car, how dare you!! The fact you think a decent electrician would “squeeze into a DNO cabinet “ show’s how little you know about what we are allowed to do or “should do “ but this waste of space video is driving down the cost and therefor the quality of EVCP installs, take this video down.@jamieblatantsparky
Ok mate sparks are fitting chargers local firms now not national for £890… work that price backwards how else they doing it without charging what I said… I think sparks are massively undervalued and under chargers stop jumping on some other person agenda
"Electricians won't want to touch your existing consumer unit" Really?
Ask any electrician worth their salt and they will make a balanced decision on what to do based on the following factors:
- Age and condition of existing consumer unit
- Brand of charge point recommended and what protection it has built into it (i.e. some cheap charge points don't have PEN fault protection built in so a separate O-PEN device will be needed)
- Customer budget.
Some houses have a brand new consumer unit with an SPD and often it would make no sense to fit a separate consumer unit in that case.
Dedicated Type A RCD protection with double pole isolation is required for EV charge points so if your brand of consumer unit does not make double pole RCBO's then you may need a separate dedicated EV consumer unit, but often we would offer to upgrade the main house consumer unit if it is old and doesn't comply with modern regs.
Good electricians will take a holistic approach to an installation rather than some of these national "EV Installer" companies who ignore what is there and quote the kind of "standard install" prices that you are mentioning.
More often than not these installs get lashed in with no care an attention and many times we get called back to repair or replace these - resulting in an overall higher cost to the customer in the end vs just going with a decent installer who quotes a reasonable price in the first place.
Unfortunately in this video you are setting very unrealistic expectations for customers about how much a decent install costs.
As an electrician that runs a company that installs EV chargers points, please be aware we have to install these to the latest regulations. It’s not correct to say electricians split the tails and install an additional fuse onboard to avoid getting involved with other peoples work. We need an SPD (surge protective device, a Type A RCBO and the installation’s additional load needs to be applied to the DNO to get permission to connect them to the grid. All the EV charge points we install have load limiting so it will nearly always get a YES back from the DNO. This is a legal requirement so needs doing. A lot of the comments sound like they aren’t being installed to the correct regulations and as a business, we would never do this. I hear feedback from clients saying they have got it installed cheaper and it’s usually as they haven’t installed to the latest regs of got the correct approval from the DNO. With electrics, you tend to get what you pay for. Hopefully this comment will be taken as helpful advice and not as a general moan lol.
@@deanof1fan yes all true, yet you can fit a 10kW electric shower without any dno requirement! Not on for as long admittedly but many houses have two!
@@MikeGleesonazelectricsyou should not have two electric showers fitted on a 100 amp main fuse.
@@liberatodelgreco4430 is that in the regs?
@@MikeGleesonazelectrics It's not to do with the regs, more to do with the DNO. UKPN are getting stricter and stricter, if you did have two electric showers and wanted to add an EVCP you'd be looking to have three phase installed. All at a cost, of course.
@@MikeGleesonazelectricsmaximum demand calculation, unless you have Garo board and electric shower don’t run at full power for up to 6 hours. Also the Regs/Standards are a minimum, you should working above them, always.
The brake down of costs is tragic , any sparky working For 100 quid is useless and letting the customer do some of the work is even more tragic
100% agree Jamie but that’s the race sparks have got them selfs in racing to the bottom of course many will charge more and fit a much better system
It you just made a video normalizing a few of 900 quid , no decent sparky is charging that only octopus cretins
@@Actual_electrical_content octopus £800 fitted so he actually was being kind to fitters like you
@@dadreview9984 not lile me mate i dont fit them
@@NicolasRaimoand your video is contributing to the mindset of the race to the bottom by quoting these absolute terrible figures mate, honestly think you shouldn’t have done this video, live and learn, I’m sure you weren’t intending to cause any insult but I would just delete this video and maybe do one with an EV installer to get their take on the overall costs and variables, your not an electrician so you were likely just quoting these figures on bad data.
The reason some electricians don’t like fitting ev chargers to existing consumer units is because the regs say it should have surge protection and be on a dedicated circuit not on a cheap plastic dual rcd consumer unit with type AC rcds
Well thats a disappointing video. Pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Spending that much on a car to haggle over the safety critical part that could burn your house down seems mad. But then, so is the average ev driver.......
John, i was only saying this to someone the other day, the cars cost £££
Every customer is different, Evs start used from under 4k, even the ones brought for £££ as you say are leased on monthly payments offset by fuel costs. My figure as I said is for the basic typical install of outdoor DNO cabinet, 5 meter run box on wall nothing too complex as I said start of video ev chargers costs can run from anything to anything depending on the complexity of the job and I agree some EV installs which are installing for £600 I saw the other day I'd expect you get a rough as install.
@NicolasRaimo I appreciate the video didn't have any malice behind it but it's rather misleading for people watching this. Perhaps you could do a little video where you get 3 quotes for a standard charger somewhere. At least then you have an average realistic price.
@@John_Faultless rightcharge, octopus, podpoint 3 with lower averages, don’t think it’s fair to give name of independents based on abuse and bullying I’ve received and they likely would
Worth noting rightcharge is local fitters it’s like a search engine
As a sparky this video is so terrible honestly Nick is a decent guy but he’s making up so much bollocks in this video
Don’t forget the costs of running the latest transit custom van and time taken to slag off any existing electrics that has been working quite happily for the last 25 years……
Need to consider that go faster stripe down the transit is at least an extra £30 labour for each job I reckon over the 3 year lease.
seen as cable has sa desing life of around 25 years this could easily be correct
How disappointing, one area of the market swamped by cheap and poor installs torn apart to make it look like the honest hard working sparks are ripping people off.
As a business our daily operating costs for our business are £350 and thats what our T&Cs say and what we charge our customers.
When we install a charger theres the quote (free)
Travel to site
1 hours time on site (Aprox)
Time in the office getting prices, working out materials, pricing and submitting a quote.
Waiting on acceptance then theres the DNO notifications
Then travel to site. Usually up-to a days work on site
Then travel back
Then time doing the admin in the office certs, notifications part p and DNO again.
What you fail to misunderstand is the years of electrical knowledge, training, insurance, business operating costs, calibration of testers, tools maintenance etc.
We are really battling against the likes of octopus energy who are bulk buying chargers at wholesale cost and then sending out installers at £100 a time for a really poor install i myself have given up on the EV market it was never a money maker for us and only install of asked but don’t actively seek to install them anymore because of videos like this and massive corporations squishing the little man.
Its like Tescos Vs the Farm-shop
How the hell can you assume that a 'fair estimate' for an electricians labour to fit an EV charger and all relevant cables, protective devices etc.. is around £100...!!
Also you are placing a general expectation that us electricians can fit 2x EV chargers a day!
You give your very poorly calculated numbers to potential customers, that will use these figures as expectations for more involved jobs.
This is so full of ignorant errors. I stopped EV installs because of nonsense like this. As far as I'm concerned, EV owners prepared to pay £60k for a car but too cheap to pay for a compliant installation on their own home are fully welcome to the world of cowboys out there. Yeah, pay someone a ton for labour on an EV chargepoint that's active while you and your family sleep at night. Don't worry about how they were able to do it so cheaply!
The £900 install price I gave was for a bolt charge on the wall about 10 meters of cable run and drilling threw one external wall... Of coruse some jobs will be longer and priced accordingly for time spent on site, If your booking 2 local jobs in the area 2 chargers in a day should be more than possible. I also left a buffer margin on the misc costs for tax, national insurance etc... 260 working days in a year... £200x260= £52,000
@@NicolasRaimo The Information Torpedo channel already sunk your arguments. You're just another EV owner who thinks they know everything about electrical installations because they took a loose interest in what charges their chariot. So, what, you saw a few TH-cam videos and that now makes you qualified on the costing and complexity of domestic chargepoint installations? Okay smart guy, so come onto the Electrician's Podcast channel and tell the world all about it. Jamie and Sam are ready as your hosts and there are a bunch of people in the live chat willing to support your statements... if they're sound.
Watching & reading i can see that there is a deep lack of understanding about what efforts and legal requirements go into an electrical installation.. i would suggest that people trying to pass comment on how much things should cost are not sparky's but just cheap-skates that think every thing is just "ow bash a cable in there and done" but its not even close to that simple.
My an Easee charger has been connected straight to my distribution board. They just added an 40amp fuse to the empty space in the fuse distribution board. The guy said that it is not needed to do the tails for that installation and to put a new fuse box because it's just a 7.4 KW charger. He said that my cooker is using more KW than that and no one is panicking about it. One year gone and so far so good.
There’s nothing wrong with it as I said most installers don’t want to touch existing electrics incase you blame them for something they didn’t do
An ev charger circuit should have a double pole rcd/rcbo protection. If the existing consumer unit has a spare way to fit one and the unit is reasonably up to date ie metal, it should not be an issue. The rcbo is at £20 Inc vat and takes about 15 mins to fit. A separate box Inc an SPD is about £75. The cable to the charger is another issue and depends on the run but if there's a decent garage supply it should be relatively easy, of course all very relative. I can understand a reluctance to alter an existing board if its a mess, an electrical condition report should ideally be done on the whole installation. However I have never charged more than £200 total to install a charger, not incl the charger.
@@MikeGleesonazelectricssomeone talking sense ❤
@@NicolasRaimo is this your best guess or is this your “electricians” pov
Installed to your consumer unit is the right way to do it, adding extra consumer units just adds risk and future costs.
I asked Ocotpus if they would swap my old charger to a new one following the closure of my car manufacturers api. They wanted the full whack price and would not discount the installation, despite everything being there from their previous installer and it being potentially a half hour job. I bought the charger from a wholesaler and had a local ev installer fit it for £100, saved £400.
I try always use my local spark done all my electrics in this home for 15 years
The cost of the installation is outrageous for generally what is a pretty straightforward electrical job.
Not using the existing fuse board seems insanely cautious. Not to mention most wiring can be tested if there are doubts.
My father an electrician was visiting from Canada so I had install an EV charger on the todo list for him (to make sure he wasn't bored 😁). Sadly the wiring to the garage wasn't sufficient and due to the fact it's buried under my resin patio (where I have no idea) so he upgraded the socket in the garage and we are making due with that.
The problem is the IET refuses to do any work* so they just leave it to the manufacturers to decide what is compatible with what, and the result is that you basically often have to throw away the fuse box to meet the latest electrical requirements.
* or it's possibly corruption (I'm not totally sure)
Sounds safe
@@edc1569what till we all need AFDD circuit protection at £100 a pop in couple of years😁
You forgot to mention that the device EVs plug into is not actually a charger. It is just a special connection with lots of safety gadgets in it that provides power to the car. Charging is done within the car Not by the wall box.
These Are Not Electric Car chargers - EVSE
th-cam.com/video/AUUxb-Zp9Mo/w-d-xo.html
The charger is in the ev itself, an “ev charger” is just a power socket with some safety circuits.
If it were chargers the price would have made sense. For smart outdoor power sockets it’s just crazy
Oh dear, if you knew why EV chargers have a section to themselves in the Regs book, then you would realise how dangerous a faulty condition could be.
EV Chargers are a Special Location Section for reason.
@@liberatodelgreco4430 because they pass high currents and therefore create heaps of heat when breaching resistance which can lead to electrical fires ?
I don’t see why that would legitimise the price though… your wheelnuts play an essential role in your safety too yet you’d be scratching your head if you get charged a couple hundred bucks for them with the explanation that they need to be up to spec for your safety..
Wow Nick, I am on average €500 for an EV install with the customer buying their preferred charger their selves. I did one that took 2/3 days once and cost 1500 install charge. However we do have to always supply a certificate for the full installation here if adding a circuit.
6:05 how much does the membership cost annually?
Depends first year membership is most but renewals is less but there’s also the work involved in being a member and admin that goes with it
You are not supposed to fit anything inside the external meter box. So technically splitting the tails and putting something in the box is a no no. I doubt anyone cares though.
Henley blocks be fine but all switch gear etc should be mounted outside the DNO box but not many do
Brought an old tethered pod-point off eBay £150, some 6mm T&E cost £50, 40A MCB £20, replaced RCD with type AC £40. If some spark wanted to spilt my supply at the meter I'd tell him to sod off, I have a decent consumer unit with plenty of space put in for a reason.
I see you can buy brand-new Masterplug units for £400/450 from screwfix now, I expect we will see those go lower.
Did you consider the earthing? Do you know what happens in the even of a neutral fault? Your car body could go live at 240volts. Neutral supply faults are not that uncommon so maybe when you go to your car don’t grab the handle but touch it with the back of your hand. Hope you’re ok and never have a problem mate.
@@sausagemcgregory Size of the MCB is dependent on the size (cross section) of the cable run to the charger. The current tripping of the MCB/RCBO protects the cable run to the charger. It's fine to fit 40amp if you have a cable run on 6mm or greater, in fact its advisable as I've seen some 32A breakers be twitchy or burn out with a continuous 32A load over time. Also latest regs state the MCB/RCBO should be a dual pole type, that is it cuts off both live and neutral. Type A is also a minimum, although type B is advisable (although hard to obtain). As you say, PEN fault protection either at the CU end or the charger is mandatory.
@@davideyres955 It's on a driveway with a wooden fence, the only exposed metal conductor anywhere around is a gas pipe that's bonded to the electrical system so you'd do well to give yourself a fatal shock during a PEN fault. Assume you've applied the same level of concern to all your outside lighting. Point is this is safer than a granny charger and inside what I can afford to spend. My EVSE pre-dates mandatory PEN fault protection and I don't come from the school of thought you throw things away as they are slightly out of date.
@@edc1569you bought it used indicates it’s was install recently so still should have PEN fault device
EV chargers have sod all inside them. You could replicate it with a 25A connector, a raspberry Pi Pico, a few yards of cable, a socket and a box, oh and 300 unnecessairly bright LEDs. I don't mind paying a Sparky for their skills and their costs, but the boxes themselves are a rip off.
They are way more than a pi and some LED they contain clever electrics like PEN fault, DC leakage and other bits and bobs they are also tested to IK10, and IP65 minimum
@@NicolasRaimo a few power diodes and a transistor. Basically the boxes are empty, it’s only 7kW AC max and the breakers only need to break an AC current.
They are not chargers, they are just an electric vehicle supply equipement (EVSE), the charger is in your car and I don't care how you try to justify the cost they are well over priced. I installed mine for less than 200€, yes doesn't have wifi but my car has lte/wifi and an app so can control and program all i need from there.
UK regs require smart EVSE, you aren't allowed to rely on the EV owner using EV smart controls. It's not about the user's convenience, it's about minimising effects on the grid
Having read the regs, that only applies if you are selling an evse. As far as I understand doesn't apply to dumb, for instance a dumb cable type.
Good electricians are "highly skilled" but thare not an "engineer"
i "wonder" what "an engineer is?"
An EV has a battery which can deliver a lethal voltage under fault conditions, not only to the owner but to neighbours. Most household appliances don't include a power source that can be fed back into the supply, hence the need for sophisticated fault protection.
Everything in your house can deliver a lethal voltage under fault conditions. I think most of the additional cost has more to do with building apps and sophisticated communications to comply with grid regulations. The only thing I can see different about an EVSE is PEN fault detection which is a UK specific thing.
@@mondotv4216 which begs the question.. why does an evse require PEN fault protection and not say a cooker, or indeed anything plugged into a socket?
@MikeGleesonazelectrics an EV charger is outside the eqipotential zone, in the rare ish event of a PEN fault, you'd be generally safe INSIDE your house, however when operating an outdoor device you'd generally be in contact with the general mass of earth.
@@seanthespark If the supply neutral is cut, on a TNCS system the return to neutral would then be diverted down the earth wire as the installation neutral is connected to it; hence every appliance connected via the cpc would become live, yes? This is my understanding of why there must be a pen fault detector.. on other systems eg TT it wouldnt be a problem.
an EV ain't going to win a fight with the national grid
I’m needing one installed and want it taken directly from the meter box do I need a ip66 box for outside
Yes, some sparks MAY put it in DNO box but not many
@@NicolasRaimo yea I want a box out don’t want it in the meter box. If I get a box could I also have an outside socket coming off it or would it be for the Ev only ?
@@djksly2970 you could ask an electrians to also fit a circuit for an outside socket
I'm guessing 80% of people have a nonstandard home / electricity supply. My meter is under my kitchen table concealed inside a kitchen bench/seat. The space is so small that the leccy company won't even fit a smart meter. I'd need ground works, a pole mounted charger and works to bring the leccy into the adjacent cupboard. I'll just stick to the granny charger on an industrial extension from the garage with its own consumer unit.
Looking to partex my podpoint solo 2 for a charger that's intelligent compatible.
Would the new charger be able to use the existing cabling and CT clamp?
It's taking an irritatingly long time for podpoint to get their act together, so which is the cheapest intelligent compatible unit?
Thanks.
Try Ohme they have two options and they rely on 3G/4G connectivity. However, Ohme only cover this cost for the first three years. This device should be able to be commissioned with your existing cabling. Get a local electrician who knows EVCP's to take a look for you.
People spend at least 25K for an EV but all the sudden can’t afford a few thousand for the charger… Come on people this is not the time to be cheap. Unless the idea of your house catching on fire while you’re asleep interests you, it’s probably not a good idea to buy a budget charger and pretend you’re an amateur electrician. I think we’re going to start seeing people dying because of this. This isn’t like replacing the cord on your lamp.
Lots of EVs from 4K these days but madness on granny charging to save on install goes to any margin I agree
@@NicolasRaimowhen you says loads, quantify, thousands, hundreds.
@@liberatodelgreco4430 current there are 22,695 used electric cars for sale on autotrader of which 1005 are under £10k and a 3572 under £15,000 and 9401 under the £25k Calvin said they cost at least there’s around 200 just under £5000
Of course no one buys a second hand EV they all explode at 3 years old.
@@NicolasRaimo Hang on you said lots under 4K, then you give figure of cars over 4K, how many cars are under 4K
The cost of a charger is around 30% more than I spend of diesels a year!
But a charger is for 7-10 years not per year…
@@NicolasRaimo I hear you. With the modest mileage I do, it's really not sensible to get rid of our run around 55mpg diesel for any type of EV sadly
£70 for a CP Fusebox EV board with SPD.
And the cable, gland pack, RCBO, Henley block and cable clips was free then? And that's just the materials.
THIS GUY IS A JOKER FAM...
My first thought is that people that drive less than 30 miles per day could just get by with using a 3-pin plug to slow charge their cars. Now I need to go watch Nicolas' other video on the subject! 😎
A used car sale man telling Electricians what they should be charging and how to do an installation complete miss information.
You've lost my respect.
Send me your electricians details please so I can sub all my work out. Thanks
260 working days in a year... £200x260= £52,000
GREAT! Send me your electricians details please, I'm yet to meet one that works bank holidays and has no annual leave as you sugest. Must be very efficient to be able to run around doing all these quotes, scoping out the materials, back and forwards to the wholesalers, filling out paperwork, phoning DNOs, testing and issuing certificates and still being able to do 520 (!!) EV chargers in a year with no business overheads/expenses. You're living in cloud cuckoo land and honestly doing a disservice to the industry and to your viewers here mate. You have some good videos but you've really missed the mark here
Put down the mouse buddy 😁😂
It’s my autocue
@@NicolasRaimo I was just laughing at him flying around while you were talking 🙂... Great content 👍 I enjoy your videos
You think you know how an electrician prices up a job and whats involved after watching a bit of youtube? Absolute 🔔 end.
You have not done your homework (spoken with electricians who install EV). This is nonsense!
Are you an electrician? One of the main costs of installing an ev charger is the training costs, qualification, insurance, etc of the installer. This is complete nonsense. No self employed electrician can run a business at 100 a half day. What about vat and profit. Spent 30 years as a finance director and restructuring companies. Dont know what you do for a living but probably work for someone else, never had to run a small business. Someone says you sell cars. Well I guarantee you that you are putting a lot more than 70 pounds. Nonsense
I 100% agree with you but that's the going rate for people fitting EV chargers currently, its why most EV chargers are chucked in and very little thought goes into the design process like hiding cables occurs, I rang 2 local firms and 2 national firms prices ranged and the average was the £900 figure used in the video some were less however most expensive local EV charger installer quoted £1200.
This video stated if I were a spark I wouldn't be fitting EV chargers.
The firms scaled for this do 2 a day and the staff outlay is £200 not once did I say this is a fair figure for a self-employed person. £200 a day by the way works out £52,000 a year wage.
@@NicolasRaimo your analysis is rubbish. Octopus obviously absorb a substantial amount of the labour cost as they want the electric contact. Any analysis by an "expert" should have reflected that. The Octopus model is something for the competition authority. Your "analysis" is just so bad bedt to do is just take it down and do it properly as it makes you look like you don't know what you are talking about.
@@brianoneill350 octopus wasn’t the cheapest… others undercut it who don’t sell you electric at all. This argument octopus sell you a charger cheap to benefit from electric is silly if that was true other companies wouldn’t be charging less and not benefit from any long term service
Which charger works with octs @ £450 please
Not fitted wholesale supply only
What an absolute jobsworth 😂. Just another basher with no clue.
I can tell you now electricians are idiots when it comes to pricing, for some reason they feel the need to give away their skills for next to nothing.
This sector is a race to the bottom and the customer isn't get ripped off, they are however on a lot of occasions getting crap installs.
They use a separate board mostly because it's quicker, and you are not meant to mount anything in the meter box as that belongs to the dno despite what anyone will tell you, the dno can make you remove any equipment you install in there.
As for the devices you mention they are not exclusive to EVs, and unless a manufacturer specifically requests certain things they don't need to be installed.
You can get a BG charger for £329 plus vat, you didn't mention vat in your costing EV ultra cable is around £6 P/m plus vat.
Also, if a person can afford to pay upwards of £40k on a car they can afford £1500 to charge the thing, especially when they are only paying 5% vat on their fuel and no fuel duty so in all they don't have it too bad really.
I'm not sure your information is correct . Let's take going to wholesaler, so he is only going for your items. Let's face it that bul.sh.t. I said to my sparks can you match octopuses price he said thats easy .
Read the sparks in my comments they all saying it should be minium of £1200 fitted
Your sparky is a bottom feeder
your conflating employed and self employed considerations to arrive at a very poor presentation of the installers reality, coupled with a bit of a mismash oversimplification of the install itself. You should seek sponsorship from Octopus 👷♀
£900 was average price from nation and local installers some quoting less than this
@@NicolasRaimo not disputing the overall figures as such, more concerns such as discussing outsourcing labour to cheaper suppliers or DIYing things like running cable without mentioning pertinent Building Reg sections etc. Perhaps a mention of the things that could wrong and potential outcomes. I get what you are trying to do with this video but it could do with an edit
I had an electrican quote me £1350 for the same job octopus did for £900. He wanted to charge me £400 just for cabling that had built in network cabling even though the charger had 4g connection. I could have bought cable for £80. Maybe it was those diamond tipped cable clips he was going to use. Even the charger unit itself he managed to add £150 on top of the price i could have for it for inc vat.
Typical money grabbing tradesmen these days.
You could have bought it for £80? So buy it and do it yourself you absolute melt!
I guarantee what your proper spark had in mind, and what Octopus threw onto your wall, are two different things.
@@dsesuk they did exactly what the electrician had quoted for. They spent 5 hours doing it and did a very neat job. Even clipped in my existing cabling along with it.
The thing you seem to be missing is Octopus are using these jobs as lead losses hoping the masses use them and sign up to their ev tarrif. The proper electrician that quoted your job doesn't have the buying power a large company does.
@@Paulruk They didn't, it seems, because you say they used a different cable. And how would you know the the tech spec of what the electrician had in mind? They, like me, wouldn't have put the supply in the meter box as that's not permitted, but that's probably what Octopus did. How do you know what's a proper job? Are you qualified to know? If so, do it yourself.
Do electricians really charge only £200 per day?
It’s about what staff members be paid some way more but I went on low end of scale some people wouldn’t moan I did my price over the top
@@steveharvey2001 it is at the cheap end but if its an easy job..
No mate we don’t this is the worst break down of all time Nick has dropped the ball. No spark on this planet worth he’s salt is charging a 100 to fit a ev socket. Think of it this way if a customer calls me and they need a light fitting changed that’s £50 minimum charge.
@@fatsamelectrical Sam what you charging for an EV install? If it’s more than the £850 quoted for everyone online then yes of course your charging more than that for labour but many sparks are under £900 for an install and I agree it’s wrong
our chap is £150 a day cash but if they only work 200 days a year £200 is 40k a year
How dare you assume how much we should earn, how about I say to you should only make £100 profit on that used car, how dare you!! The fact you think a decent electrician would “squeeze into a DNO cabinet “ show’s how little you know about what we are allowed to do or “should do “ but this waste of space video is driving down the cost and therefor the quality of EVCP installs, take this video down.@jamieblatantsparky
Ok mate sparks are fitting chargers local firms now not national for £890… work that price backwards how else they doing it without charging what I said… I think sparks are massively undervalued and under chargers stop jumping on some other person agenda