I can’t believe this has happened to kids. I grew up in the 90s, my friends and I grew up w skateboarding. But we all had friends of all races, we saw each other as equals, all w different accents and different stories. This is real sad and scary.
Skeletal Pryde that’s where they say a black lesbian has been more oppressed than a white lesbian. And the level of oppression gives them value and rank. So a Mexican lesbian missing a leg has more status than a regular black woman. White men being at the top, or bottom. I’ve just learned all this nonsense recently. So in their minds Will Smith’s kids have been more oppressed than any white person growing up poor. These people do not acknowledge the individual, they only see the group.
Jae Eun Kim I’ll do the same about the definition of police, Police is not about murdering innocent men, or harassing innocent people. The definition of police is; the civil force of local government, responsible for prevention and detection of crime, maintenance of public. Back to intersectionality, what happens when we identified which people have been more oppressed or victimized? How do u treat those people? If that identification causes those people to be treated differently, u have just created a hierarchy. Would u want your daughter or sister or yourself, marry one of these oppressed, victimized, persons? The more I think about this it sounds more like racism, it’s straight up racism.
Yea yea "I'm no racist but I just don't want to date a person of that race" People are 1) good at hiding their racism, 2) not always aware of how racist they are
So he says that individuality is the ultimate minority, but he preceded that by talking about various identity characteristics and their relative importance. He doesn't posit that they are equally significant socially or biologically. He admits some carry more power than others, referring to sex, age, and attractiveness as "big ones". Intersectionality is not limited to race, class or gender. It includes all characteristics that make up an individual to understand how they intersect within systems of power. His argument that there are infinite characteristics that affect an individual's experience is exactly what Intersectionality addresses. Then about white privilege. The argument that there is no statistical basis for white privilege has no merit, a quick Google search will show that. When saying its "majority privilege" and a benefit of living within a culture he partially correct. The problem is that he's implying that minorities are not a part of that culture. America was never just white, so why shouldn't minorities receive the benefits of being within that culture? Bringing up the shame and guilt I always find interesting, as if its implied that someone should feel that way about their own privilege. It's not, its called white fragility in this case and it is not helpful. If you feel that way its on you and it limits activism.
Well said... In general, I like Jordan. He is charismatic in a subdued kind of way.. Conversely, I find that he generalizes A LOT and side steps specificity in relation to practical occurrences/experiences. Speaking on "intersectionality" without mentioning why it was manifested in the first place, and speaking on "White Privilege" only from the context of Postmodernism contempt, demonstrates his magical ability to articulate general ideology while "mis-addressing" the topic/issue.
Was a big fan of jordan back in the day. Funny enough thanks to his work I became interested in learning more about Marxism and feminist because one thing he said you should always strong man your opponents arguments if you want to have actually make progress in a debate, the goal after all is to move forward not defeat your opponent. It's quite ironic that jordan completely misrepresents Marxism and intersectional feminists. I've come to the conclusion he's either intellectually dishonest or a complete moron. It doesn't matter anyway I believe integrity and authenticity will win in the eyes of history, sadly his ideas are quite damaging in the short term. You suck jordan.
Right. I don't think he makes great arguments here, and you summed up perfectly why I feel that way. Intersectionality mainly addresses how people are marginalized as a result of their traits (furthermore, there is no reason an intersectional theorist wouldn't take wealth, attractiveness, etc. into account) and his justification of the evidence of white privilege implies a justified denial of the same rights of the culture being extended to non whites. I don't think he's arguing in bad faith, just that his premises are faulty, and, in some way, this video demonstrates less of an attempt to make a well-formed argument and more of an effort to regale against a political regime that he feels has done and is doing damage. Whether or not he's right for that admonishment is irrelevant to whether his crusade should influence his rationale. It should not, but unfortunately, it does in this case.
What’s funny is that white men in America actually have minority rule besides wealth. 62% of white men are in all elected offices in government yet white men make 30 percent of the population that’s just adding to your point on white privilege
Your FIRST argument gets a significant ... duh! His point is that they have no merit in their argument because having these things that make us up can go significantly in any direction. It's not a crime or a sin. It's more pseudo-nonsense by resentful people. SECOND, "a quick Google search" will show what? That those who worked hard and earned where they are in life will make up primarily lighter-skinned folks? According to merit, at least. Also, You said, "The problem is that he's implying that minorities are not a part of that culture." That is NOT the problem. If there is one, the problem is that there is a victim mentality among some people that make up that minority. Therefore, the benefit of living among that culture (as they ARE a part of that culture) and among the "majority privileged," eludes them and will continue to do so. THIRD, I'll tell you what is not helpful: Arguments such as yours that make no sense, are argumentative at their core, are irrelevant, and perpetuate RACISM AGAINST ANYBODY WHO IS NOT OF COLOR.
I remember having to read this exact "article" JP is speaking of in my first year intro to Social Working course. Everyone around me was reading this seriously and we had to discuss White Guilt in groups after that. Needless to say, I switched my major. The accuracy of this video is sad but makes me feel less alone somehow.
Ummm, gender has nothing to do with beauty and intelligence, and race has nothing to do with any of them, according to any logic you're attempting to posit here.
What if, as in the case of the United States of America, the marginalized have been part of American culture since before the country was founded? As in the case of marginalized blacks descendant from slavery and racial discrimination. Is that cultural privilege or white privilege; considering that this group has been part of American culture since its birth?
This is the argument by CRT. The notion of cultural privilege, which has turned over on its head long ago, is what they term white privilege because of alleged systemic racism.
I had to read that paper in my masters program and refrained from disagreeing with it as a multiracial female because I felt it was a trap to see who opposes his liberal agenda.
sarah freethinking notrump noleftysjw I was studying critical race theory for my MFT course. It’s BS. Wow! They’ve gone as far as a privilege test!? I couldn’t believe my ears in class tonight... I couldn’t believe how many people are brainwashed into believing the narrative on tv!!!
I think that too often we confuse race with culture and the status quo with those groups that are numerically significant. As far as the groups we belong to, there usually no single group. As we progress through life we shed the culture of our forbearers and morph into one with our live mate, our own family, educational peers and work group.
I’d love to have professor Peterson teaching me! I’m studying philosophy and psychology and I’m shocked that my most recent psychology module has brought in Intersectionality theory (and how good it is) implicit bias and white privilege. Here he makes perfect sense and I agree with him. Knowing how useless Intersectionality is I feel quite quite pissed off. So much so that I know I’m going to get a low grade for my assignment. We also had to watch a video by Crenshaw... way too subjective, so fed up!
Privilege is just the ways you benefit or are not harmed by (more the later) an aspect of your identity (ie sexuality, race, mental illness). It has exactly nothing to do with increasing status within a group. That false interpretation is superimposed on the idea of privilege as a straw man in order to discredit it and those who are talking about it. No one is saying a straight white dude (like me) is bad because of any of those aspects of my identity or that my life is easy, free from discrimination etc. All it means is that I generally am not going to suffer from those aspects of my identity. I’m not more likely to be pulled over by a cop in the way a black man in a nice car may be. I’m not likely to be discriminated against because of holding hands or kissing in public with my partner like a gay person would be. You get the idea. Privilege is more or less not being disadvantaged directly by an aspect of your being.
@@phrozehniv5663 I got news for you, buddy. In those contexts, I can see them as valid answers and examples; This has been the way of the world for thousands of years. I don't care what anyone does, what laws, or what policy they enact. They can NEVER abolish common societal thought at a glance in an individual; in whatever context you could think of. It's crazy that we spend so much time on this, but if I walk around with an orange afro that gets in the way of the doorway, people will treat me differently in one way or another, for better or for worse.
Where is your evidence Peterson, where is your research, where is your empirical data for your statements? And, Peterson could you please inform us about the theorists who brought us the theory of intersectionality as a tool to analyse i.e. racism et al?
Postmodernism is marxism? Has this guy ever actually studied either? The two are diametrically opposed. Marxism is modernist. It invokes historical materialism. It invokes talk of classes as material. Most post modernist philosphers would heavily critique these ideas (and have). Also Marxist and postmodern thinkers existed at the same time and critiqued each other. That isn't even touching on how intersectionality is fundamentally misunderstood here and doesn't directly deal with post modernism. Like this talk sounded like someone who has heard simple introductions to these topics, cherry picked some similar patters, threw out all context and then made a series of strawmen based on what he sees tumblr activists do or idealistic college students with an introductory understanding. Even these groups he is misrepresenting because none of them can be categorized as both postmodern, and marxist because those categories don't even fucking make sense when squished together. Like, I don't know who this guy is but it is clear he has no idea what he is talking about, but knows how to use enough academic allusion to make it seem like he does to people predisposed to think negatively about this topics. It seems like he has a lot of feelings about this subject.
For such a long comment and your supposed superior knowledge you still managed to not put forth anything of worth except for how much this persons opinions anger you because they dont align with your beliefs. Say it with me IT'S OKAY FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE DIFFERNT OPINIONS.
@menotyou135 Hey! Yeah I get what you mean and he does feel strongly about it. It's been 7 months since you made this comment so I assume you may have checked out more of his stuff. Regardless, surely you understand this is only an excerpt of a longer talk (link: th-cam.com/video/PfH8IG7Awk0/w-d-xo.html ). He understands that Postmodernism and Marxism are two contradictory viewpoints and starts talking about that particular phenomenon just after the 2:00 mark :)
For someone who tells us that he believes in thinking, he seems to do a lot of name calling without providing much supporting evidence for his opinions.
So then you agree Obama's children are oppressed and a white kid in a trailer park with a single mother who is addicted to drugs has, "white privilege"? Got it lol
@@before120 read a book, touch grass, some not in the suburbs. Challenge your notions and maybe you have a chance of seeing outside of this hyper-modern and broken down world view. I can’t help you in a comment section. So again, this is….dumb lol.
3:40 “The logical conclusion of intersectionality is individuality. The individual is the ultimate minority.”
“That’s exactly what the West discovered.”
I can’t believe this has happened to kids. I grew up in the 90s, my friends and I grew up w skateboarding.
But we all had friends of all races, we saw each other as equals, all w different accents and different stories.
This is real sad and scary.
e val79 What is intersectionality? If you don’t mind me asking
Skeletal Pryde that’s where they say a black lesbian has been more oppressed than a white lesbian. And the level of oppression gives them value and rank.
So a Mexican lesbian missing a leg has more status than a regular black woman. White men being at the top, or bottom.
I’ve just learned all this nonsense recently.
So in their minds Will Smith’s kids have been more oppressed than any white person growing up poor. These people do not acknowledge the individual, they only see the group.
Well if it hasn't happened to you, then it doesn't effect the rest of society. Brilliant analysis
Jae Eun Kim I’ll do the same about the definition of police,
Police is not about murdering innocent men, or harassing innocent people.
The definition of police is; the civil force of local government, responsible for prevention and detection of crime, maintenance of public.
Back to intersectionality, what happens when we identified which people have been more oppressed or victimized? How do u treat those people? If that identification causes those people to be treated differently, u have just created a hierarchy.
Would u want your daughter or sister or yourself, marry one of these oppressed, victimized, persons?
The more I think about this it sounds more like racism, it’s straight up racism.
Yea yea "I'm no racist but I just don't want to date a person of that race" People are 1) good at hiding their racism, 2) not always aware of how racist they are
So he says that individuality is the ultimate minority, but he preceded that by talking about various identity characteristics and their relative importance. He doesn't posit that they are equally significant socially or biologically. He admits some carry more power than others, referring to sex, age, and attractiveness as "big ones". Intersectionality is not limited to race, class or gender. It includes all characteristics that make up an individual to understand how they intersect within systems of power. His argument that there are infinite characteristics that affect an individual's experience is exactly what Intersectionality addresses.
Then about white privilege. The argument that there is no statistical basis for white privilege has no merit, a quick Google search will show that. When saying its "majority privilege" and a benefit of living within a culture he partially correct. The problem is that he's implying that minorities are not a part of that culture. America was never just white, so why shouldn't minorities receive the benefits of being within that culture?
Bringing up the shame and guilt I always find interesting, as if its implied that someone should feel that way about their own privilege. It's not, its called white fragility in this case and it is not helpful. If you feel that way its on you and it limits activism.
Well said... In general, I like Jordan. He is charismatic in a subdued kind of way.. Conversely, I find that he generalizes A LOT and side steps specificity in relation to practical occurrences/experiences. Speaking on "intersectionality" without mentioning why it was manifested in the first place, and speaking on "White Privilege" only from the context of Postmodernism contempt, demonstrates his magical ability to articulate general ideology while "mis-addressing" the topic/issue.
Was a big fan of jordan back in the day. Funny enough thanks to his work I became interested in learning more about Marxism and feminist because one thing he said you should always strong man your opponents arguments if you want to have actually make progress in a debate, the goal after all is to move forward not defeat your opponent. It's quite ironic that jordan completely misrepresents Marxism and intersectional feminists. I've come to the conclusion he's either intellectually dishonest or a complete moron. It doesn't matter anyway I believe integrity and authenticity will win in the eyes of history, sadly his ideas are quite damaging in the short term. You suck jordan.
Right. I don't think he makes great arguments here, and you summed up perfectly why I feel that way. Intersectionality mainly addresses how people are marginalized as a result of their traits (furthermore, there is no reason an intersectional theorist wouldn't take wealth, attractiveness, etc. into account) and his justification of the evidence of white privilege implies a justified denial of the same rights of the culture being extended to non whites.
I don't think he's arguing in bad faith, just that his premises are faulty, and, in some way, this video demonstrates less of an attempt to make a well-formed argument and more of an effort to regale against a political regime that he feels has done and is doing damage. Whether or not he's right for that admonishment is irrelevant to whether his crusade should influence his rationale. It should not, but unfortunately, it does in this case.
What’s funny is that white men in America actually have minority rule besides wealth. 62% of white men are in all elected offices in government yet white men make 30 percent of the population that’s just adding to your point on white privilege
Your FIRST argument gets a significant ... duh! His point is that they have no merit in their argument because having these things that make us up can go significantly in any direction. It's not a crime or a sin. It's more pseudo-nonsense by resentful people.
SECOND, "a quick Google search" will show what? That those who worked hard and earned where they are in life will make up primarily lighter-skinned folks? According to merit, at least. Also, You said, "The problem is that he's implying that minorities are not a part of that culture." That is NOT the problem. If there is one, the problem is that there is a victim mentality among some people that make up that minority. Therefore, the benefit of living among that culture (as they ARE a part of that culture) and among the "majority privileged," eludes them and will continue to do so.
THIRD, I'll tell you what is not helpful: Arguments such as yours that make no sense, are argumentative at their core, are irrelevant, and perpetuate RACISM AGAINST ANYBODY WHO IS NOT OF COLOR.
*Well said sir!!!*
Does anybody know where one might find the paper he's referring to?
Crenshaw's theory of intersectionality.
Imagine writing a paper and using the phrase "I can be pretty sure..."
Lmao
But he didn't. That was a lot of fun imagining such a wacky thing thank you. Have you got any more crazy capers for me to fantasise about?
I remember having to read this exact "article" JP is speaking of in my first year intro to Social Working course. Everyone around me was reading this seriously and we had to discuss White Guilt in groups after that. Needless to say, I switched my major. The accuracy of this video is sad but makes me feel less alone somehow.
Doesn't discrimination exist ?
Isn't it wrong to have a 'disadvantage ' based on your race, gender or sexuality ?
It’s wrong to think those things give you a disadvantage, generally. Successful people come from all different walks of life.
Funny that videos in support of intersectionalism seem to have comments turned off. Clearly they don't want open discussion on this matter!
8:45 The most interesting part
Now write that down
Would be interested to hear what's that future we don't want to have is like. Concrete is always more convincing than pure theorising
Gattaca i want to live in that
intelligence and beauty are significant factors of wealth so yeah race and gender are often separated by wealth and power
Ummm, gender has nothing to do with beauty and intelligence, and race has nothing to do with any of them, according to any logic you're attempting to posit here.
@@before120 yeah im really not sure what i was harping on about
Amen!
...so that's that.
What if, as in the case of the United States of America, the marginalized have been part of American culture since before the country was founded? As in the case of marginalized blacks descendant from slavery and racial discrimination. Is that cultural privilege or white privilege; considering that this group has been part of American culture since its birth?
I would say cultural .
This is the argument by CRT. The notion of cultural privilege, which has turned over on its head long ago, is what they term white privilege because of alleged systemic racism.
why did you edit out the background noise when he stops speaking? its kinda annoying tbh
Wait, what future do “we” not want to have?
A future where individuals rights and freedoms are stripped and given to groups.
Gattaca
I had to read that paper in my masters program and refrained from disagreeing with it as a multiracial female because I felt it was a trap to see who opposes his liberal agenda.
sarah freethinking notrump noleftysjw I was studying critical race theory for my MFT course. It’s BS. Wow! They’ve gone as far as a privilege test!? I couldn’t believe my ears in class tonight... I couldn’t believe how many people are brainwashed into believing the narrative on tv!!!
As always, well said.
I think that too often we confuse race with culture and the status quo with those groups that are numerically significant. As far as the groups we belong to, there usually no single group. As we progress through life we shed the culture of our forbearers and morph into one with our live mate, our own family, educational peers and work group.
Jesus this audio bugs the hell out of me
I've always wondered whether he was legit or not. This was great.
Legit.
@@icychap Trust No one.
This was really excellent. I’m sick of the smear campaigns against JP.
I’d love to have professor Peterson teaching me! I’m studying philosophy and psychology and I’m shocked that my most recent psychology module has brought in Intersectionality theory (and how good it is) implicit bias and white privilege. Here he makes perfect sense and I agree with him. Knowing how useless Intersectionality is I feel quite quite pissed off. So much so that I know I’m going to get a low grade for my assignment. We also had to watch a video by Crenshaw... way too subjective, so fed up!
What is "privelege"?
Privilege is just the ways you benefit or are not harmed by (more the later) an aspect of your identity (ie sexuality, race, mental illness). It has exactly nothing to do with increasing status within a group. That false interpretation is superimposed on the idea of privilege as a straw man in order to discredit it and those who are talking about it.
No one is saying a straight white dude (like me) is bad because of any of those aspects of my identity or that my life is easy, free from discrimination etc. All it means is that I generally am not going to suffer from those aspects of my identity. I’m not more likely to be pulled over by a cop in the way a black man in a nice car may be. I’m not likely to be discriminated against because of holding hands or kissing in public with my partner like a gay person would be. You get the idea.
Privilege is more or less not being disadvantaged directly by an aspect of your being.
@@phrozehniv5663
I got news for you, buddy. In those contexts, I can see them as valid answers and examples; This has been the way of the world for thousands of years. I don't care what anyone does, what laws, or what policy they enact. They can NEVER abolish common societal thought at a glance in an individual; in whatever context you could think of. It's crazy that we spend so much time on this, but if I walk around with an orange afro that gets in the way of the doorway, people will treat me differently in one way or another, for better or for worse.
Where is your evidence Peterson, where is your research, where is your empirical data for your statements? And, Peterson could you please inform us about the theorists who brought us the theory of intersectionality as a tool to analyse i.e. racism et al?
Kimberle Crenshaw and Peggy McIntosh.
Research? He was stating common facts that we all know. He was simply making the points that victimization fails to see.
Nauseating!
It would be to me too if I was you probably. It's sad really. kind of like listening to the racism that is blm.
Brilliant way to combat intersectionality!
Postmodernism is marxism? Has this guy ever actually studied either? The two are diametrically opposed. Marxism is modernist. It invokes historical materialism. It invokes talk of classes as material.
Most post modernist philosphers would heavily critique these ideas (and have). Also Marxist and postmodern thinkers existed at the same time and critiqued each other.
That isn't even touching on how intersectionality is fundamentally misunderstood here and doesn't directly deal with post modernism. Like this talk sounded like someone who has heard simple introductions to these topics, cherry picked some similar patters, threw out all context and then made a series of strawmen based on what he sees tumblr activists do or idealistic college students with an introductory understanding. Even these groups he is misrepresenting because none of them can be categorized as both postmodern, and marxist because those categories don't even fucking make sense when squished together.
Like, I don't know who this guy is but it is clear he has no idea what he is talking about, but knows how to use enough academic allusion to make it seem like he does to people predisposed to think negatively about this topics. It seems like he has a lot of feelings about this subject.
For such a long comment and your supposed superior knowledge you still managed to not put forth anything of worth except for how much this persons opinions anger you because they dont align with your beliefs. Say it with me IT'S OKAY FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE DIFFERNT OPINIONS.
@menotyou135 Hey! Yeah I get what you mean and he does feel strongly about it. It's been 7 months since you made this comment so I assume you may have checked out more of his stuff. Regardless, surely you understand this is only an excerpt of a longer talk (link: th-cam.com/video/PfH8IG7Awk0/w-d-xo.html ). He understands that Postmodernism and Marxism are two contradictory viewpoints and starts talking about that particular phenomenon just after the 2:00 mark :)
Not to bright are ya
Yea! Who, exactly, IS this guy? This did not age well for one of you...
Kimbele Crenshaw has 1M views. Please Jordan sit your arse down.
you first....victim.
Long story short: Mimimi.
If you want to learn something about intersectionality look up Kimerberlé Crenshaw or the case against GM instead.
Its literally all about me, myself, and I. If thats the case then intersectionality is not even a plausible theory
No, if you want to hear a one-sided version of victimhood look her up.
Yawn!
I love how all the white people laughed derisively at the beginning.
I love how all who live in victim land cant stand that.
For someone who tells us that he believes in thinking, he seems to do a lot of name calling without providing much supporting evidence for his opinions.
Lol... Yes talk shit to the lion from outside the cage..
Intellectual lightweignt
Of course, everyone who is perpetuating the never-ending victim thinks as you do... there is no talking to some people.
So then you agree Obama's children are oppressed and a white kid in a trailer park with a single mother who is addicted to drugs has, "white privilege"? Got it lol
Agree. Beware the “guru”.
This is…. Dumb lol
Best reasoning I've heard in response to "victim mentality". You disagree so it's dumb. oooooh.
@@before120 read a book, touch grass, some not in the suburbs. Challenge your notions and maybe you have a chance of seeing outside of this hyper-modern and broken down world view. I can’t help you in a comment section. So again, this is….dumb lol.
This is awful.......
Succinct argument, you're a goddamn genius and your parents should be proud.
@@Wesujin I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not