Again Dave + Andy you have shown how much cartridges have improved over recent years. I was given some Estate cartridges once for pigeon, and I think the pigeon was traveling faster than the pellets. Hence they were binned.
Great video again Dave. Keep them coming, am looking forward to the next. It's also inspired me to pattern test my setup of B525 30" 20bore, Teague choked at half in both barrels using Gamebore black gold fibre wad 6's in 28 & 30gram. Regards, Matt
The ''George Digweed'' Pigeon Extreme is a brilliant cartridge..Well chaps here we go into the nitty gritty with people who shoot enough to know the score and hopefully how to overcome the marked difference in efficiency when shooting pheasants at range.F16 is 18.6 mm.bore.What Triplex bore design means I am not really sure but local gunsmith says they are playing with tapers.I have personally witnessed how the shot to kill ratio has increased by some margin on high bird shoots which have made the transition to fibre wad only.Purely as an example a 32grm fibre wad 5 shot is not the same as a 32grm Plas Wad 5 shot on any decent bird let alone ''archangels''.Good luck Dave will be an interesting ride.
I think the science is just the starting point. I had a tightly choked Kemen which patterned and shot better with Eley VIP 32 fibre than any plaswad round I tried. Couldn't work that one out.
Coincidence.I also had a Kemen KM-4 which I will guess now was around 3/8 and 5/8.Patterned great with anything I put though it but back then would have all been plas wad so cannot draw the comparison.One of the main reasons I went to a multi choke was the fibre fobia.Before I would just change the cartridge to achieve the end result.
Thanks, Dave. That's a hell of a half choke pattern at 55 yards. Looking forward to seeing the conclusions from your fibre vs plaswad test. I'm searching for a water soluble "plastic" wad solution for my MK60HP and MK38 trap guns and hope you are going to find that I don't need one.
Think you might be talking about Spanish made Armusa ''Green Shoot'' Cartridges which have the soluble wad.Were sold by Purbeck Shooting School here in Dorset.Pros:They do kill extremely well and the wads look like mushrooms until the dissolve which does not take long.They do however leave a deposit in the barrels which in our local experience dissolves with hot water/steam.They seal like a plas wad.The wad to all intents and purposes looks like a plas wad and performs in the same way.Shot not coated.Never patterned them but have seen some decent birds shot with Armusas by those here with fibre phobia.I have shot them but the gooey deposit left behind put me off.This was before I found out how to get rid of it.Carry on Carrie.
That's correct, JP. There are some concerns about the way the Armusa wads are prone to become "sticky" in storage and their weight. We intend to see what can be done on both issues as the shooting qualities of plaswads combined with even better environmental profile than fibre deserves to be fully investigated.
Spot on Myles.I forgot about the ''sticky'' storage issues.They would have to be stored is a good temperature controlled facility not just on pallets in unlined sea containers or similar.
plastic is still beating fibre on consistency, but the drive to fibre will make the manufacturers push the boat out with R&D, i have been pushing them for years and the driving force behind bigger better loads for killing birds outright , thanks for your constructive imput
Hi Dave ,dont you think the full choke crushes a lot of pellets and loses pattern more.Have you ever tried pattern master chokes in a gun where they stop the wad and shorten shot string giving more lead into the pattern at range
I think they should be banned universally, clay grounds included. That would lead to the required investment being made into formulating a quickly biodegradable version.
@Travis Thacker few manufactorers build wads out of realy degreadable material, for example Hull don't know weather Gamebore too.the break in the uv -sunlight.not in 1000years,within few month. I don't beleave this is a promo- fake.Nevertheless i prefer fibre-wads.But using steelshot Fibre wad could be difficult, cause the steelschot could rubb down the barrel without protection by a wad
I notice your patterns are a bit high would you not be better with the disc in the centre of your pattern especially on crossers, I shoot a benelli and it was about a foot high so lowered it ,it now shoots dead centre patterns , would this be better a tad high
@@Parfashrek It was the sbe 2 , i had a gun smith make a thicker taperedshim for me as well as a metal spacer plate with the hole down a bit to allow the drop.Was superb after that .It shot exactly where i was looking .You struggling to get it down .I tried all the shims that came with it but still not low enough
Thanks for getting back to me Stuart. Yep, Benelli M2 is shooting high but have just put in a C shim, haven’t shot it yet but fits much better when mounting. I don’t have to drop my head anymore so fingers crossed that’s done it!
@@Parfashrek yes shouldnt drop your head at all when shotgunning ,as you probably know . I tried the c shim too but still high . Full choke at 16 yards on a pattern plate or card just mount and shoot at a four inch circle see where it goes ,dont aim .Remember six inch high at sixteen is a lot more at forty or fifty yards. I got mine where the pattern was almost central ,not that there is much pattern at sixteen yards with full choke but its the way to do it
Surely your target should be in the centre of the pattern ,not most of the pattern high.Should the biggest percentage of the pattern not be around the bird where you are looking
thanks for your valid comment Stewart! this is exactly where i want my pattern on a moving target, this built in lead so to speak helps me keep the target or bird in view at all times, the pattern is thrown high because of my stock dimensions.
Thank you i do quite a bit of pattern testing of steel but im always interested in other peoples test, i am impressed with your long shots on clay's and game.
I like Andy but he has this default setting of agreeing with everything when he has no idea what’s happening, you can see it visibly on his face . I’ve shot 36 years and didn’t know there was a difference in barrel inside diameter for fibre wads .
Andy ?Never judge a book by the cover.There is no official/publicised difference in barrel internal diameter for fibre but hopefully all will be revealed in due course.
JPDorsetHQ it’s not just in this video though. He was loaned a Barretta and went for a custom fitting . In the video he has no idea what’s happening but says “I always tell people to get a gun fitted to them “ they ask if he’s ever been fitted before and he says “no, never “ look it up it’s on Field sports Britain “crow gets a new gun” or something . It’s very amusing to watch .
I have watched them all and still of the same opinion.think being over critical of his persona.he is entering a new chapter in his life.give him a break. best jp
Some folks prefer a longer taper choke path.The Briley have a taper to parallel in both flush and extended therefore longer taper in the extended.Apart from instant ID from colour code on the Spectrums the extended are easier to monitor/check if secure and change as some do on the clays circuit.Not seen any come loose but think in the end checking becomes a habit with multi chokes and the only way with the flush is to stick your finger in the barrel lol.
Again Dave + Andy you have shown how much cartridges have improved over recent years. I was given some Estate cartridges once for pigeon, and I think the pigeon was traveling faster than the pellets. Hence they were binned.
Great video again Dave. Keep them coming, am looking forward to the next. It's also inspired me to pattern test my setup of B525 30" 20bore, Teague choked at half in both barrels using Gamebore black gold fibre wad 6's in 28 & 30gram. Regards, Matt
Im enjoying these pattern tests! Keep it up!
Really enjoyed this be very interesting to see the fibre vs plastic debate! Well done Dave
The ''George Digweed'' Pigeon Extreme is a brilliant cartridge..Well chaps here we go into the nitty gritty with people who shoot enough to know the score and hopefully how to overcome the marked difference in efficiency when shooting pheasants at range.F16 is 18.6 mm.bore.What Triplex bore design means I am not really sure but local gunsmith says they are playing with tapers.I have personally witnessed how the shot to kill ratio has increased by some margin on high bird shoots which have made the transition to fibre wad only.Purely as an example a 32grm fibre wad 5 shot is not the same as a 32grm Plas Wad 5 shot on any decent bird let alone ''archangels''.Good luck Dave will be an interesting ride.
I think the science is just the starting point. I had a tightly choked Kemen which patterned and shot better with Eley VIP 32 fibre than any plaswad round I tried. Couldn't work that one out.
Coincidence.I also had a Kemen KM-4 which I will guess now was around 3/8 and 5/8.Patterned great with anything I put though it but back then would have all been plas wad so cannot draw the comparison.One of the main reasons I went to a multi choke was the fibre fobia.Before I would just change the cartridge to achieve the end result.
Thanks, Dave. That's a hell of a half choke pattern at 55 yards. Looking forward to seeing the conclusions from your fibre vs plaswad test. I'm searching for a water soluble "plastic" wad solution for my MK60HP and MK38 trap guns and hope you are going to find that I don't need one.
Think you might be talking about Spanish made Armusa ''Green Shoot'' Cartridges which have the soluble wad.Were sold by Purbeck Shooting School here in Dorset.Pros:They do kill extremely well and the wads look like mushrooms until the dissolve which does not take long.They do however leave a deposit in the barrels which in our local experience dissolves with hot water/steam.They seal like a plas wad.The wad to all intents and purposes looks like a plas wad and performs in the same way.Shot not coated.Never patterned them but have seen some decent birds shot with Armusas by those here with fibre phobia.I have shot them but the gooey deposit left behind put me off.This was before I found out how to get rid of it.Carry on Carrie.
That's correct, JP. There are some concerns about the way the Armusa wads are prone to become "sticky" in storage and their weight. We intend to see what can be done on both issues as the shooting qualities of plaswads combined with even better environmental profile than fibre deserves to be fully investigated.
Spot on Myles.I forgot about the ''sticky'' storage issues.They would have to be stored is a good temperature controlled facility not just on pallets in unlined sea containers or similar.
plastic is still beating fibre on consistency, but the drive to fibre will make the manufacturers push the boat out with R&D, i have been pushing them for years and the driving force behind bigger better loads for killing birds outright , thanks for your constructive imput
lets keep experimenting ! thats the key
Yet another great video Dave! I so enjoy all of them. One day I'll make my way from the States.
thanks for the kind words Peter, i do hope you manage to shoot over here
Hi Dave ,dont you think the full choke crushes a lot of pellets and loses pattern more.Have you ever tried pattern master chokes in a gun where they stop the wad and shorten shot string giving more lead into the pattern at range
Do you not feel plastic wads should be confined to clay shooting grounds, to limit plastic pollution in the countryside?
I think they should be banned universally, clay grounds included. That would lead to the required investment being made into formulating a quickly biodegradable version.
there are bio- degradable plastik wads....
@Travis Thacker few manufactorers build wads out of realy degreadable material, for example Hull don't know weather Gamebore too.the break in the uv -sunlight.not in 1000years,within few month.
I don't beleave this is a promo- fake.Nevertheless i prefer fibre-wads.But using steelshot Fibre wad could be difficult, cause the steelschot could rubb down the barrel without protection by a wad
I notice your patterns are a bit high would you not be better with the disc in the centre of your pattern especially on crossers, I shoot a benelli and it was about a foot high so lowered it ,it now shoots dead centre patterns , would this be better a tad high
stewart grieve Alright mate, what Benelli and how did you lower it?
@@Parfashrek It was the sbe 2 , i had a gun smith make a thicker taperedshim for me as well as a metal spacer plate with the hole down a bit to allow the drop.Was superb after that .It shot exactly where i was looking .You struggling to get it down .I tried all the shims that came with it but still not low enough
Thanks for getting back to me Stuart. Yep, Benelli M2 is shooting high but have just put in a C shim, haven’t shot it yet but fits much better when mounting. I don’t have to drop my head anymore so fingers crossed that’s done it!
@@Parfashrek yes shouldnt drop your head at all when shotgunning ,as you probably know . I tried the c shim too but still high . Full choke at 16 yards on a pattern plate or card just mount and shoot at a four inch circle see where it goes ,dont aim .Remember six inch high at sixteen is a lot more at forty or fifty yards. I got mine where the pattern was almost central ,not that there is much pattern at sixteen yards with full choke but its the way to do it
Thanks mate, will do as suggested and and see what I find👍
The newish miroku guns are over bored i think,i have a miroku mk70 and im sure its overboard .In tests this gives you more velocity ive read
Surely your target should be in the centre of the pattern ,not most of the pattern high.Should the biggest percentage of the pattern not be around the bird where you are looking
thanks for your valid comment Stewart! this is exactly where i want my pattern on a moving target, this built in lead so to speak helps me keep the target or bird in view at all times, the pattern is thrown high because of my stock dimensions.
Very interesting test and results , do/have you tested any steel shot loads ?
not yet but we will test everything eventually
Thank you i do quite a bit of pattern testing of steel but im always interested in other peoples test, i am impressed with your long shots on clay's and game.
Read an article a while ago in Fieldsports about using a 28 bore as a high bird gun. What's your opinion on that?
it has got limitations although a very nice gun and can sometimes pull the odd big one down
when will the next test with fibre vs plastic be released on youtube?
we are preparing for test soon
I like Andy but he has this default setting of agreeing with everything when he has no idea what’s happening, you can see it visibly on his face . I’ve shot 36 years and didn’t know there was a difference in barrel inside diameter for fibre wads .
Andy ?Never judge a book by the cover.There is no official/publicised difference in barrel internal diameter for fibre but hopefully all will be revealed in due course.
JPDorsetHQ it’s not just in this video though. He was loaned a Barretta and went for a custom fitting . In the video he has no idea what’s happening but says “I always tell people to get a gun fitted to them “ they ask if he’s ever been fitted before and he says “no, never “ look it up it’s on
Field sports Britain “crow gets a new gun” or something . It’s very amusing to watch .
I have watched them all and still of the same opinion.think being over critical of his persona.he is entering a new chapter in his life.give him a break.
best jp
JPDorsetHQ I can’t be arsed to answer
Calibre?
12
Iv got an f16 like crows and it patterns really tight with the manufacturers chokes. Do you know what those extended ones are?
no wish to butt in but pretty sure chokes are Briley Spectrum Extended. M 0.20'' and IM. 0.25'' .For Blaser F3/F16
JPDorsetHQ thanks. Wonder why he’s done that I would say the blaser chokes are pretty damn good already.
Some folks prefer a longer taper choke path.The Briley have a taper to parallel in both flush and extended therefore longer taper in the extended.Apart from instant ID from colour code on the Spectrums the extended are easier to monitor/check if secure and change as some do on the clays circuit.Not seen any come loose but think in the end checking becomes a habit with multi chokes and the only way with the flush is to stick your finger in the barrel lol.
At one stage he was using aftermarket wad stripper chokes.
you sure they were not Mullers ?