Why AM4 was the LAST of its kind
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 มี.ค. 2024
- Thank you for watching 😊
I cover what made AM4 so special and why I don't think we'll see something like it again.
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1:41 Please excuse the rendering error 😂 This was clearly not rendered on the 🐐 AM4 platform
You’re not calling the AM4 platform a dog are you? I’m a builder of high end gaming rigs and I’ll take AMD’s platform over Intel’s oven any day of the week……and on weekends too. I tell you what. Take AMD’s power draw at 100% load and set an Intel 12th / 13th / 14th gen to use the exact same power draw. See who comes out on top. Take 3 guesses……..the first two don’t count.
@@techluvin7691haha not at all, it's a goat, standing for the greatest of all time. I seriously agree about the power draw
@@techluvin7691get your glasses checked. That is a GOAT I see.
Am4 cost me my peace of mind glad most of you say it was cheap it was expensive 4 me...
You got the title wrong. Should be 'Why AM4 was the only one of its kind' And the reason is quite simple - AMD was playing catch up and had to compete on price. But all good things must come to an end. I expect AM5 to last a couple of generations before they're on to AM6. People are buying AM5 because they think it will last as long as AM4 but the industry will be rapidly changing over the next few years so they will need new sockets with more pins to accommodate new features. I think we'll be seeing UPUs (Universal Processing Units) with integrated graphics, AI and perhaps even quantum processors by the end of the decade.
Another reason for needing larger and larger sockets is the fact they are having to get rather creative to keep x86 on life support. More power is a big part of it.
AM4 and Intel 775 are easy the best consumer friendly sockets produced.Just to remind ya ppl that 775 socket started its lifespan with Pentium 4 single core Prescot and DDR400 and ended its lifespan with the QuadCores and DDR3.Thats crazy by todays standards.
775 only lasted that long because the P4 was such utter garbage they needed to make 9 versions of it to out do a 899mhz single core that AMD was offering.
Intel just being stubborn.
775 was different than AM4 because despite the same socket you still needed a new board every other CPU generation. Because the chipsets never supported more than two generations on 775! Wouldn't have been that big of a difference if they were entirely different sockets every two years like they do now.
@@skyknight0408True but kinda not true only the suckier and older 945 chipsets wont accept xeons and quads.Anyting from G31 and newer runs on them easy.Plus same goes for AM4 mobo try running a Ryzen 7 on a cheap@ss A320 motherboard,the VRM will be hotter than the core of the sun😅
@@ghostinashell420Oh right, I'm stupid! I was thinking of the 1151 because I didn't realise how long ago the 775 actually was. Doesn't help that I didn't have an intel in the time when dual- and quadcores were the norm.
And nobody with an IQ above room temp would pair a Ryzen 7 with anything under a B350 or better yet a X370. It can run on A320, but why put it on a chip that would slow it down? That's like putting an i7 or i9 on H310.
@@skyknight0408 Im from eastern Europe,man here many ppl still dailydrive 775 socket PCs.With a 3-4USD Xeon from Aliexpress this thing still runs internet comfortably and even allot of indie games if paired with good enough GPU.At the end of the day PC industry is a industry and they go for the profit a.k.a selling"snake oil"to the consumers.
Plus AMD puts out open source drivers and software software that will work on Intel or Nvidia no other company does that you have a GTX 1050 FSR will work with it.
Wow I didn't know this, thank you
Too bad fsr is so atrociously bad youre better off steering clear of it
@@xflamouszFSR isnt as bad as you think ngreedia lover
@@xflamouszIts not as good as DLSS, especially in the lower resolutions but its a lot of a hell better than not being able to play at all. In some scenarios, it could be the difference between unplayable framerates at the lowest possible resolution and having something playable
They don't do that. Intel does it's own foss drivers.
FSR isn't a driver.
I did indeed pair an AM4 mobo with a 5600x and am still damned pleased with it.
I am thinking about 5700X3D
@@Soras_ The X3D chips are incredible. My 5800X3D maxes out my heavily overclocked 7900XT at 1440p with no issues, so definitely go for it.
I got a ryzen 5500 on mine
same
@@ryanvtec3885
I've found those 3D V-Cache chips to be maybe little too much overmarketed like they are faster in some titles but matching their non-3D counterparts in others, definitely not worth it paying double over 5600 or something. They make sense if you are chasing FPS in 1080p competitive titles but other than that I don't see the point If you are on 1440p playing AAAs the difference is not worth the extra cost.
Its long lifespan reminds me of LGA775
How funny. I transitioned from LGA 774 to AM4
@@truepaulesko At least you're still getting support
AM4 has already surpassed LGA775 by a couple of years.
@@Lurch-Bot How much?
@@truepauleskosame, had used a 1155 machine between 775 and AM4 but for a very brief period of time
This is the way motherboards should be. You should not have to replace your motherboard with every CPU like back in the day, especially considering how much they cost these days.
All thanks to intel having no competition.
@@Splarkszter wrong, all modern AMD cpu's match or outperform intel CPU's at half or even a quarter of the wattage. they have plenty of competition.
@@scarecrow5848 And? Do you even remmber intel had no competition and started to do BS with the socked and mobos?
Even AMD tried to do it once they were on top.
@@Splarkszter Intel has competition today but they used to not have any. It made them stop innovating, which was a big mistake from them. Apple used to use intel in their macs but Apple got fed up with intel because intel weren't really doing anything so they developed their own chips. Intel not innovating also made AMD catch up and have better cores than intel and better price to performance.
AMD made history. Its called AM4.
I thought it was called AMD's nuts! Couldn't resist. I've loved amd for awhile
I've just bought our son an AM4 entry level mobo (Gigabyte m450b gaming) and cpu (2700X) paired with 16GB RAM @3000MT/s 15c and a 6750xt. Told him this will help him (me) upgrade in the future untill he can buy his own pc. he is 14yo now.
That's a great platform to start with, and no doubt it will be greater if you guys upgrade along the line
YOU are a fantastic parent and deserve an award!
Ahh and in 1-2 years if needed can upgrade to 5800x3d
@@eluna9613and it will still be relevant, I have no doubt, damn, what an amazing platform
@gmdniko at 2k it's probably not that bad.
I bought a cheap B350 motherboard and a R5 1600X back in 2018 after the 400 series motherboards and Ryzen 2000 were released, because they were heavily discounted. Last year I upgraded to a new R5 5500 for 99€ and sold my 1600X for 35€, so I got a good upgrade for 65€, which really isn't a lot.
Same here bro. I went from 1600 to 5600. Couldn't be happier.
I bought a B450 in 2019 because I got a cheap deal on a used R7 1700 (£80). Replaced it with a new R5 5500 1.75 years ago for £100 and sold the R7 for £50. I still have huge upgrade options available unlike on my Z70 platform it replaced (stuck on gen 4 i7 for years), AM4 is the gift that keeps on giving.
Mine was even more extreme.... R5 1600X to R7 2700X.... then onto a R7 5800X3D!
BTW - 5600 is far better if you're gaming with it (32Mb cache).
AMD usually keeps a socket alive as long as the memory standard remains the same. Am3 was ddr3, am4 ddr4, am5 for ddr5
AM3 was even better! Early AM3 processors would also work with DDR2 RAM, so they could be dropped into late AM2 boards (called AM2+). I went that route as a student, glad that i only had to pay for a new CPU that could later profit from more and faster RAM.
This way, you had an upgrade path from DDR2 to DDR3 and from single core Athlon 64 to hexacore Phenom II and eight-thread-bargains like the FX-8350. All by alternating between CPU- board- and (occasionally) RAM upgrades.
I really hope they support AM5 like AM4
I took an early B450 board on the full upgrade journey: from a budget build with a 2nd hand R5 1600X through 2700X and now it's running a 5800X3D!
Keep in mind, that when upgrading your CPU on an older B350/X370, you'll miss out on features like PCIE 4.0 and if you upgrade to a X3D chip, you'll lack PBO 2 functionality.
X3D parts will still compete well in gaming on 300 series boards compared to non X3D AM5 parts. I have both PCIe 3 and 4 machines and I can't tell the difference IRL use, file transfers maybe or a few fps slower in games if I have a fps counter on. What I like about the MSI Unify B550 over the Aorus B350 is the X3D Kombo Strike boost function and the insane RAM clocks that board can do, but, how many people run an X3D part on the best pro overclocking AM4 board on the market, what a waste, lol.
You forgot A320.
Surely bargain hunting noobs are not buying x3d
PCIE 4.0 is pretty irrelevant even with a 5800X3D, at least for gamers. There's no performance difference up to a 4070, and even with a 4090 it's only a few percent. When a motherboard of that caliber is so relatively cheap, it's highly unlikely they'd be pairing it with a 4090 anyways.
As long as the ram speeds are similar X3D could care less about ram timings when gaming...
I still have my old Am4 Taichi x370 w/32 gigs of ddr4 3000.. The plan is to upgrade the CPU from an 1800x to a 5600x and use it to as a media server. I upgraded the older sata ssd to NVME M.2 tb.. This little beast repurposed and upgraded has gotten a new lease on life. While she isn't as fast as the my 7900x3d it will still outrun her specs from 2017.
I wouldn't bother. As a media server you'll not see much difference
You can just throw a 5800X3D on your B450 board and just skip AM5, it's insane how good this platform really is.
If the 5800x3D was cheaper sure. But as I type this it is $308 and 7600/7600x can be had for $200 all the time with the same game performance. Outside of games the 7600/7600x multicore performs like a 8core 5800x which is faster than a 5800x3D. 7600/7600x Single core performance is head and shoulders better than any zen3.
With the $108 you saved on a newer better cpu you can buy a $100 DDR5 ram kit.
Now you only need a budget b650 board and once you sell your cpu, mb and ram you will recoup your new am5 board cost.
5800x3D is a very bad value choice. They really need to be like $200 or less to make it worthwhile.
B450 gives you 1 full speed gen3 (3500mb)slot.
B650 gives you usually 3 and sometimes more GEN4 (8000mb) slots.
Unless you can’t do your own pc upgrades or can’t be bothered to do a 3hr upgrade of parts then the 7600x upgrade is usually little to no money out of pocket if you have AM4 parts to sell. If you are building new with no old parts to sell AM5 will be about $150 more over a 5800x3D build.
@@45enoYeah, I agree. While I did say that 5800X3D is a very capable CPU, the price is just too much.
If you play on 1440p or higher, you can just get a 5700X or just a 5600 (which I got for 110 dollars new in my area).
Sure, 5800X3D is faster than my 5600, especially in cpu intensive tasks such as multiplayer games and at 1080p resolution, but it's nowhere 3 times the performance. On the other hand, the 5600 in my case was 3X times cheaper, so yeah.
Price/performance ratio >>>>> performance
I would think one of the main reasons that AMD did this with AM4 was they had finally built a cpu platform and cpu that could actually compete with Intel. With their older AM3+ and FX platforms, they dropped the ball and had no chance of getting anywhere near the power that the Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge architectures from Intel. But with AM4, they hit the nail on the head and they past 7 years have just continued to not only compete but in some areas be better than Intel's offerings. I have an Asrock Steel Legend B550 mobo with the 5800X3D cpu and 32gb of 3600 CL16 ram and it's an awesome system. I won't need to upgrade to AM5 for a few years to come. I just need to replace my gpu down the track. Currently running an RTX 3070.
Yeah it seriously is great, 5000 series chips have been amazing from my experience
lol. They hit no nail on no head. They have a great marketing dept. That's all. The original Zen had Haswell SCIPC and did AVX2 in two passes of AVX. Zen+ Had Skylake SCIPC and had the same AVX problem. Zen 2 had Coffee Lake SCIPC and fixed the AVX issue to full AVX 2 (256 Bit). Zen 3 is where they finally caught up to Coffee Lake+ (The 5800X and the 9900K @ 5.2 Ghz have the same SCIPC and MCIPC). It wasn't until the 5800X3D that they finally took that Crown. And kept it as Comet Lake and Rocket Lake didn't offer much in the way of improvements so Zen 3 still looked really good in comparison. Intel finally got desktop 10nm to work and we got Alder lake which beats Zen3 sku for sku. However AMD fired back with Zen 4 and Intel with Raptor Lake and it's been looking like a great time for gamers and creatives alike since.
Unfortunately AMD decided to use Intel pricing on CPUs and Nvidia pricing on GPUs greatly reducing their appeal in a time where that would have been a huge thing. A 7600X and a 7800XT shouldn't be what they cost now. If they were in line with the initial Zen and Vega offerings they would sell many many more of them. I know they want to make money however they should have strategized a longer profit path before sinking more into other areas. Which is what they did.
"With their older AM3+ and FX platforms, they dropped the ball and had no chance..." Bulldozer was built on the assumption that they could offload work on a GPU. Which was no topic at that time. And without that option the architecture was too weak. And now one problem arised: Intel had basically bribed the market to push their bad design, the P4, and avoid the AMD K7 CPUs. Creating not enough revenue for AMD to start developing another architecture or develop their K7 architecture further (like Intel did: the Core architecture basically the Pentium mobile architecture before the P4).
So it's not like AMD intentionally dropped the ball, Intel forced them with shady market practices and thereby diminuishing AMD's revenue
@ccoonansr Dude, not everything has to be outright better than another for a nail to be hit. Ryzen 1000 was great in the fact it offered 4-8 SMT cores with haswell IPC for orders of magnitude cheaper, and continued to remain extremely competitive through price cuts. The early bugs were pretty bad though.
@@RevDrCCoonansr sounds like you are buying into intels marketing. when amd came out with zen with 2 times the core count of intel it was full panic over at team blue for sitting on there hands for a decade. look how long we where stuck with only 4 cores becouse intel decided it was good enough. so they would say but are cores are faster even thow we have half of them. in a time when single core preformance was not worth alot anymore becouse everything used multicore other then old games.
Ryzen 5 1400 looking to get a 5600X soon.
Glad I got what I got.
I'm almost dirt poor so, $100 is a major expense for me. (for any silly comments as to "why not just AM5 upgrade" despite them watching this video)
I live in a country where about have professional engineers can not afford a pc in their home for their family. Low-end performance hardware is critical in countries like this. I desperately want to see 400 dollar apu builds that can handle any 2d cad applications and light 3d cad, simulation ect.
that'll be a sweet step up to a 5600 or 5600X (the non-X is still AWESOME).... just avoid the 5500 if you're gaming.... R5 1400 was a great start... but mostly 'cos it got you onto AM4 ;)
I almost did that upgrade to a customer, he went from a 1600 to 5600. You should've seen the look on his face when I told him he got what he needed to upgrade to a recent rig for dirt cheap.
4:25, btw people actually ran i9 9900k on z170 boards after some bios modifications and some small mods on the cpu pads, just intel being greedy and forcing you to buy new board
Does it only need a bios update or also mods on the CPU pads?
@@Lynnfield3440 both, not bios update because these are not official versions, on some mothetboards it may be impossible to do such since these mod bioses are created by the community on these mod websites, it should work just like the famous "turbo unlock" for xeons v3 but also combined with lga 775 to 771 mod,
idk if you flash the bios or just inject microcode from 9th gen cpus but i just know that people got this running
@@shockat5070 but what do you need to mod exactly on the cpu, I think I managed to download the software and find a guide on the software part.
where can I find these BIOS mods?
@@funbucket09 i did some research yesterday and looks like there's a tool that unlocks the 8/9th gen on all 1151 chipsets, just need to download newest bios, tweak it with the tool and flash onto your motherboard, give me some time i'll find in 5minutes
I have recently Upgraded to an 5800x3d so im hoping to stay with am4 for another 4-5 years
I've been thinking about upgrading to this CPU and using it for all or most of the next console cycle, don’t know how feasible that would be.
Im going to do the exact same ting with my B550 mobo. One last Push with AM4. And then probably wait for AM6 before i upgrade in the future
@@protocetidim going to do the same. I think it will still be relevant coming in to the PS6 era
@@Fredrik7le Consider waiting a little longer, AMD unveiled their plans for new XT CPUs for AM4. Yes, they’re using the XT branding for Ryzen and it’s not the first time. The previous XT CPUs were only slightly better than the non XT. And I have a theory that motherboard makers would be mad if AMD made anything more powerful than the two strongest AM4 CPUs because it would make AM5 look pointless. So there probably won’t be a 5800X3D XT or 5900X3D but let’s wait and see.
The 7800x3d is peerless at this point...AM5 is well on it's way to matching AM4 in longevity and value.
value? there were (at the very beginning) AM4 mainboards for 45 € with CPUs (Bulldozer based, but actually quite ok performing) for less than 50 € . That same 45 € Mainboard, now, 6 years later, runs an 5800X3D, one of the fastest CPUs on the market.
I have jet to see any AM5 boards for less then 80 €, and the CPUs start at 180 €. AM5 is an much more expensive platform to buy into, almost triple the introduction price. (a whole AM4 system was cheaper then any AM5 CPU today)
@@opfipip3711You're clearly not in the US...different markets have different prices.
Ye cuz where i live in europe. Even ddr3 mb was 90 euros when ddr4 was out. My am5 mb costed 112 euros. So not that much more expensive. Except for the cpu, but even here an x3d was more expensive than a 7600x . It was worth it for me since i upgraded from intel ddr3 to amd 5
@@opfipip3711 when am4 was released the prices also werent at like 45 € the prices are gonna come down when new generations come out like ryzen 8000
Not if you play gran Turismo 5 on rpcs3 lol. Then it sure isn't, you'll be luckily to get a stable 45 fps with a full grid.
It says more about how hard it is to run and how bad optimisation is for it right now, but it doesn't make it less true. I'm on a Ryzen 5 and I'm lucky to hit a stable 30 with the full grid. So I'm definitely upgrading to Ryzen 9000 when they come out, and the prices become reasonable. I'm not paying 400 euro for a Ryzen 5.
AM5 will likely last as long as AM4. AMD has promised to support it for at least 5 years. What's even more important is that PCIe 5 and DDR5 were both pretty new when AM5 first came out, so the longevity will be even better. The X670 and B650 chipsets (really just either 1 or 2 of the same chip) will likely be mainstream by the time the next socket comes out. Sure, it's expensive now, but that won't last as long as people think. I've been building my own computers since the 486 days, and I've seen a lot. Prices will come down as companies get better at the techniques needed for DDR5 and PCIe 5. So, it will be just as cheap as AM4 by the end of its lifespan.
Either that, or the whole world economy will collapse before the next socket, and we'll all be scrounging for any PC components for the next 30 years until there are no more working, and we'll have to rebuild society to get computers back. That is a possibility right now.
We will already be 21 months into AM5 with 18 months left by the time 9xxx series is announced in June. That leaves no more room for further desktop generations on AM5, only one more APU generation.
As a long time amd user, it also took them some serious complaints from the users to get to the am4. Prior to that, you couldn't even use the same mb for apus and cpu.
It might be that the threadripper TR platform actually becomes their next long term platform for serious consumer.
I bought a 5700X3D, never regret it. Long Live AM4.
Until AMD dominates the market, the main selling point to their platform is the promise of forward compatibility. Selling future AM5 chipsets will have to be based on the merit of the product as opposed to forced for CPU upgrades. They just need to make better boards with worthwhile features. The 300 series was obviously half-assed because there was limited confidence in AMD getting back in the game. 400 Series improved on it's flaws and 500 series added PCI-e 4 .0, with a few models including thunderbolt. A market would always remain for the older CPUs, but only if there are boards that would never get updated to drop their support.
When you look at AM5, you see the BIOS ROM sizes moved up to 32Mb standard instead of 16Mb, and Flashback being standard. Both things that specifically got in the way of forward compatibility on AM4. Flashback as a feature would be something board makers would love as an upsell option. It's far more important for AMD to move silicon than to please MB makers. Its no mistake that CPUs were still being released this year for AM4. The standard chiplet based CPUs come from unused/ineligible server silicon, and the monolithic G-series APUs (and lowest end non-x) are from laptop silicon. It's in their best interest to allow compatibility on as many boards as possible to make money on some otherwise garbage silicon. Any excuse to buy a new board is a chance to buy a competing platform instead. Intel has been relying on the strength of their brand to hope people don't switch to AMD.
i just built a rig consisting of the ryzen 5 5600x paired with an rtx 3060, runs absolutely fabulously and i am very pleased with it
I have a 5600X too its a fantastic CPU
And that in itself is why AMD kicks Intel’s ass. As for “just chuck in some ram”…………it’s a little more complicated than that. The AM4 plarform will be relevant for a long time to come.
felt like AM4 platform will be the next Sandy/Ivy bridge from intel but now its AMD time
AM4 is the Corolla of sockets. I love AM4 and planning to keep it longer as needed.
Because of the high latency, I think I'm going to skip DDR5 and stay with DDR4 system RAM.
1:50 that perfectly describes why i haven't gone to AM5 yet lmfao
imma just stick with my 5800x for a while, i kinda wished i had gone with the 5800x3D but looking back i dont think that the 5800x3D even existed when i got my 5800x lmao 💀
Haha yeah I mean prices are getting better but nonetheless you still need to buy a new platform for AM5
I picked up the 5800x and b550 seen in this video for $163 USD used which was a crazy pickup
AM4 is also legendary for having good vrms with extremely long lifespans. AM5 had a rocky start with voltage issues across several motherboard manufacturers which has since been fixed, but during that time is when I decided to stick with my AM4 since I have a super-reliable MSI b450 I chose to upgrade from my Ryzen 3700x with crossfire Radeon Rx570 Polaris cards to the Ryzen 5700x3d with the Radeon Rx7600. Huge performance gains for cheap.
2017 was a special.year. almost got my am5 build going. Can't wait had a r 1700 r2600 r3100 r5500. Just ordered a ryzen 7500f
Bought a 3700x and an x570 Motherboard back in 2019 at Zen2 launch. Paired with an RTX 2070 Super a little later on. Ran it up until this past November. Ran great.
Upgraded to a 7900 XT in November, and the 3700x was no longer cutting it. x570 AM4 allowed me to drop in a 5800x and extend the life of my MOBO by another 4 years.
Absolutely bewildered and in love with this trend from AMD. Hopefully in the next couple years when I upgrade to AM5, they'll do the same and keep it going for a few gens.
just got myself a ryzen 5950x its great, been rocking the same mobo since 2019, i love this
I love am4! I also bought a 5800x3d when it came out and I haven't looked back! I paired this with a MSI x570 gaming MB for $100 and I did pay full $ 450 for cpu. 32 gigs of corsair 3600 completes my system.
Forcing people to buy whole new motherboards is so wasteful on resources. I would be ok with a higher up front cost on a motherboard that I could get 10 years out of rather than 3 motherboards over that same period. I love my current set up since I was able to upgrade from a ryzen 5 1400 from 2016 to a Ryzen 5 5600 with minimal hassle. Now this computer with an 80$ motherboard will probably last me a grand total of 10 years or more.
I am waiting for ryzen 9000. At the moment I have my trusty 5600 running at 4.65 Ghz all core. This puppy is still running better than a 12th gen intel (i5 12400)
Am4 is the best platform and it will always have a special place in my heart
I have that one A320 that also accepts every AM4 chip ever made AND is backwards compatible with the AM4 APUs of the time. Before Zen. An amazing piece of kit I keep on a desk.
I don’t know that changing chipsets every 2-3 years for profit always and necessarily leads to more profit. There’s a reason intel is sweating right now, more and more people are switching to AMD and they may come out on top in the near future. I think intel is still in the majority of computers but most computers aren’t being upgraded frequently, in terms of new builds in the last 5 years going to to AMD, I’d be shocked if they aren’t winning in that regard and looking even stronger going forward.
The point is, sure you can milk people every 2-3 years but if you offer a more compelling product like am4 lasting 7 years and thus you take market share, maybe it’s less than intel would have made off of that market but if you get more customers overall you could still be dominant and profitable.
i originally got a ryzen 5 1600 back in 2018 and in 2023 i dropped in a 5600 for 120$ total. insane value
There's no better budget option that a Ryzen 7 5800X comboed with either a second hand RX 5700 XT or new 6700 XT. The performance per dollar is unbeatable and it will get you playing at 1440p and 1080p for years.
Absolutely. However, prices have changed. In my country, an RX 6750XT with 432GB/s costs less than an RX 6700XT with 384GB/s throughput and for just 25 euros more than an RX 6700XT costs, you get a new RX 6800 and the highest efficiency.
@@Bastelopa_wie_mein_Channelname The 6700 XT is generally great all over the EU. Yeah, the 6750 XT costs 20 bucks more, if you can find it. The 6800 XT over here costs more than the 7800 XT for some reason. At one point the 6650 XT was 160 Euros, now they're gone.
@@Liminal.Headspace
Absolutely. The RX 6700XT is a great card for Full HD and 1440P gaming. There is nothing to complain about. Unfortunately, the price differences in different countries are not understandable. As of today in Germany: RX 6700XT from 364 euros, RX 6750XT from 355 euros and RX 6800 from 389 euros. All 3 cards from XFX.
I've been building and modding PCs since 1998. I think AM4 is the GOAT platform. The existence of the 5700X3D and 5800X3D will allow many gamers with AM4 motherboards to skip AM5 entirely. In fact if you're just aiming for 60+ FPS that can be probably be achieved with a regular 5700X or 5800X for the rest of this console generation. Maybe even a 5600.
You are absolutely right. Normally I like to add something, but you pretty much nailed it on the head. I am still on the AM4 Platform. My main RIG uses the ASUS ROG STRIX X-570-E Mobo, R9 5950X, 64GB DDR4, and the White ASUS ROG STRIX RTX 4090 OC. All still doing very well, and although AM5 looks amazing, I am probably going to use these same components for at least another year. Great video my friend. 👍👍
Thank you :)
AM5 would be disappointing if it is any less than 4 generations, especially with how expensive AM5 boards are and all the compromises on those expensive boards.
Then be prepared for disappointment because we will already be 21 months into AM5 with 18 months remaining by the time 9xxx series is announced in June. That leaves no more room for further desktop generations on AM5, only one more APU generation.
@@Vinterloft bruh if it's only 2 generations that would be like worse then Intel. I'm going to just rage quit then. Not sure what I will be rage quitting, but something.
I love AM4. It peaked with the 5800X3D and ended a legacy with a boom
yep. built an AM4 PC just last year and its ot even maxed out and ready for update years in the future
great savings! just built a new am4 pc, with the 5700x and used rx5600xt.
saved around 600$, so I was able to invest more into aesthetics.
(pc parts cost 2x~3x where I live)
Been an AM4 user for over 5 years, 2600->3600->5800X, and my current CPU is still fine as I play at 4K. RTX 3080 10GB as GPU.
I also still have my B350, used it for Ryzen 3 1200, Ryzen 5 3600 and currently Ryzen 7 5800x. Best $90 I'll ever spend on a motherboard.
All that being said about profit, I think there is another factor at work here besides just that. There's the DDR3/DDR4/DDR5 thing, motherboards have to be redesigned around that, and the CPUs they use have an IMC on them. Back in the day, the RAM was controlled by the northbridge on the motherboard, so any CPU could work with any kind of RAM, but that changed. There's also PCI-E standards, like PCI-E 3.0/4.0/5.0, the motherboards have to be built to accommodate faster PCI-E standards. The final reason is voltages. Newer motherboards have to be able to deliver higher voltages for higher core counts especially, and the older ones often just can't cut it with newer CPUs. Intel's Skylake-through-Coffee Lake thing was somewhat unique in terms of not really having any justification for requiring newer motherboard platforms, but that's only because they were basically stuck iterating on Skylake for several generations. In fact, those particular CPU platforms can have newer CPUs forced to work with them through hacked BIOS updates and putting a special kind of tape on various places on the motherboard. Some Coffee Lake CPUs can be made to work on Skylake motherboards, especially if they are lower in core count anyway, because they are essentially the same as Skylake and Kaby Lake.
But in general, it's not a good idea to assume that the main or only reason why motherboard updates are required is because Intel is greedy. Sure, that can play a role... but probably not as much of one as people think. Remember that most motherboards and CPUs go into OEM machines that all ship with new motherboards anyway, not into self-built enthusiast machines. If anything, given that the newer CPUs weren't significantly faster than their predecessors that generation, having incompatible motherboards may have actually cost Intel some CPU sales, or caused some people to buy underpowered/cheaper CPUs so they could spend more on the motherboard, and only helped motherboard manufacturers marginally. So it probably balanced out. It's very likely that Intel cares more about maintaining good relationships with motherboard manufacturers, given that they have to partner closely with them to sell their products to OEMs, especially in the server space where the risk of using incompatible or out-of-spec parts together is something companies worry about more than having to replace old machines. Ever notice Intel motherboards tend to be built somewhat better than their AMD counterparts? There's a reason for that... the manufacturers have more of an incentive to make those motherboards last, because they don't have to worry about people skipping several generations of upgrades if the motherboard holds up for a long time, but might have to worry about getting a bad reputation if their system doesn't last for at least the standard 5-year corporate replacement cycle. With AMD, the motherboard manufacturers tend to cheap out because they know AMD buyers are usually looking for a good deal over longevity and staying within specs, probably won't buy a new motherboard until their old one gives out, and tend to overclock anyway so they can just blame the failures on the user. Plus, AMD historically builds fewer safety features into their CPUs to prevent them from frying if you push them too far... they've gotten better about that in recent years, but not that long ago, it was really easy to kill an AMD CPU by just forgetting to plug in a CPU fan (or improperly mounting it) and turning it on for a few minutes. Then you see smoke and it's done. Intel was able to detect the problem before the temperature got too high from as early on as I think Pentium 4. So it's like... if you plan to keep the same CPU for 5 or more years and know what you're buying has enough power that you won't need an upgrade before then, Intel is still a good choice. But if you're building something underpowered and are relying on being able to upgrade your CPU within the next 2-3 years, AMD might be the better choice.
All of this extended socket support directly lead to the Bios Flashback feature which is awesome for everyone. Remember the AMD chip loaner program?
still on AM4 but on the 2nd board as I sold my 1st PC
1300X to 2700X to 5600
what a journey
I'm itching to go AM5 but it's hard to justify the cost atm
We just got 2 more AM4 CPUs releasing in 2024
There are BIOS mods to be able to run gen 8 and 9 on Z170 motherboards for instance. Some require some pin isolation or resistor change. There is a Chinesse motherboard that supports all CPUs from 6 to 9 gen, no issues. Some support even laptop CPUs that received a socket to fit in a PC motherboard. This shows once more that the incompatibility was done by purpose.
I have a Ryzen 3600 in an x570 board and I am still planning on upgrading my AM4 CPU this year. Maybe 5700x, 5900x, or 5950x, not sure (I do content creation stuff).
The 3600 keeps doing a great job for me.
If you gonna upgrade your cpu you should def go for the 5800X3D
@@Fredrik7le nah, it's slow.
AM4 was so nice, you could buy the best AM4 motherboard from 2017 and not even care about changing it up to like 2026, just upgrade processor when they get old.
I own an original socket A board that released in 1999. Thought it was pretty awesome I could drop in a cpu from around 4 years later, and it would just work. My bios has no idea what the cpu actually is, but it runs. The fsb was only 100mhz, so it only runs at 1.5ghz when it should be faster. Still, I thought it was pretty incredible to see such a thing function without any need for bios updates.
Back in those days, there was no code needed to run a CPU. It was clock times multiplier, that's it. Chances are you could even force the chipset to run at 133 FSB and it would all still work. That's what er did when 400MHz became the norm, we pushed more voltage into the northbridge and set FSB to 400 (though the latter actually was a bios setting).
@@andreewert6576 i tried running it at 133. Wont boot. It actually has a depopulated header for jumpers to set the fsb. I tried bridging the pads to see if that would do it. Nope. Bios lets you adjust it too, but no option to go that high. I think if it did work, it would probably cause problems with the pci anyways. I use the board for testing parts since it has agp, pci and an isa slot.
@@ItIsNot1984PCI frequency was decoupled by that point i believe, but memory isn't. Whatever you try, make sure you set up your memory for 133MHz as well.
Then again, for a test board i'd rather have a slow but reliable system than a teensy bit faster but possibly unstable system.
@@andreewert6576 it wouldn't be a teensy bit lol. A muliplier of 15 times 33. Its like 500mhz. I'd gladly take it. Drives me nuts waiting on reboots.
@@ItIsNot1984compared to a modern PC it is still only a teensy bit. What are you booting anyway, and off what? Early SATA is a shitshow, but SSDs can do wonders even when booting Win 9.x.
"DDR4 is slowly on it's way out"
Me who still using a DDR3 system: I haven't even stepped into that room yet and it's already being emptied?
DDR3 is still perfectly fine so you're not missing out too much at least in gaming, I'm not sure about other stuff.
@@Lynnfield3440 i can feel the lack of access to DirecX12 with my 3rd gen CPU. There are quite a bit of productivity related apps that have problem working with my PC such as FilmoraX which always crashes.
Going from a great AMD 2600X/5600XT build to a 5600X3D/6750XT for $450 in upgrades on the same motherboard was a truly astounding jump in performance. I can match and often trash way, way, more expensive builds costing over $1500, including several next gen configs. I can also use software based versions of FSR and Frame Gen in any DX11-DX12 game, they do not require any in game support from devs. AM4 has support through 2025. What will AMD drop on it next?
those pins in that 6th gen motherboard can be bent back into alignment with the oothers, and you might have a working motherboard after that... just some fine tip tweezers and a magnifier and some patience...
Love AM4. I'm still using rhe same motherboard I bought with my Ryzen 1600x. Now it has a 3700X but with a firmware update it can support the 5800x3d. May have to do that :)
Great way to expand your mobo/ram lifetime with one last big push 5800X3D
Best thing with AM4 is my wife's cheap pre-build PC (with 3500X) from 3 years ago became an upgrade to my main system with a simple 5700X3D drop in. Saved $1,500.
The decision to go with PGA was crazy too imo. I think PGA is part of why it was so widely recommended for new builders, since it's so much harder to screw up.
Where abouts in Australia you from? I'm from Queensland.
I'm just guessing but I am thinking Sydney?
To even prove that LGA1151 V1 and V2 were the same you can actually rock a 9th gen Intel CPU in a z270 mobo by modifying some pins and having a custom bios.
AMD basically screws over their mobo manufactures by doing that, but they don't make mobos themselves. It is in AMD's interest to provide long-term support for the AM5 because that way they get to sell more CPUs, which they do make. Upgradeability, power efficiency and gaming perfomance are the three main arguments for buying AMD at the moment, why thow that away?
You're not wrong, but i still think it is better to keep the board makers honest and not just sell us a new board with a different sticker, when the old one is identical and only needed a few new CPU-IDs added. We can't afford to throw away tech every year, just because support costs money. We as a species i mean.
All the major board vendors make other things too and they profit massively from them. I’m glad that AMD chose not to screw us over. They tried limiting support for Ryzen 5000 on X370 and it backfired horribly.
you can use 9th gen cpus in 100 series chipset
but only after you preform some voodoo magic on that board that might end up badly
and to add to that, you also need to preform surgery on the 9th gen cpu to make sure it won't fry anything (with a few exceptions)
you can just modify the bios and allow 9th and 8th gen CPUs on older 7th and 6th gen 1151 motherboards
Socket AM4 reminds me of PGA 462 (1999-2004). Especially now with the transition to AM5. It was like back then with the transition to S754/S939 Athlon 64. Only the Athlon 64s brought a lot of interesting stuff to the market. AM5 just brought DDR5 to AMD and some high GHz numbers. 939 back in the day brought affordable ish 64 bit consumer CPUs running dual channel memory, on CPU memory controller, PCIe on AMD, SLI, world's first true dual cores in 2005.
I will hold on to my AM4 PC for as long as I can. I'm running a Ryzen 5 5600, ASRock B550M Steel Legend, RX 6600XT Nitro+ OC, 32GB DDR4 3200 and Debian 12 KDE. I will upgrade to a 5800X3D when needed and to a faster video card. I will get as much life out of it as I can :D
You forgot socket 754 and 940 - that time was a disaster in terms of board longevity. It only cleared up with AM2, which also brought DDR2 support. Everything between was basically a one-and-done platform, at best.
426 was great, but you still needed a few board every so often. 100, 133, 166 and at last 200MHz FSB often could only be achieved with a newer board. Sure, sometimes you could fiddle with the multiplier, sometimes you could set the FSB higher than spec. But what you couldn't do was plop an Athlon XP 2400+ (Barton) into a KT133 board and have close to the same performance a contemporary board would have brought. Plus RAM was best kept in sync with FSB, so either you could OC your old sticks or you sold them and bought new ones.
Newer tech always costs more to make than prior generations.
A Price comparision: if I were to build a long-term mainboard and a 8-core cpu, that had a stock cooler included, like I did in october 2021, today I would pay up 116€ more. Yes this Video proofs a signficant point that i can match with my anekdotic build. All things given with the manufactoring transistor becoming smaller its becoming more expensive for newer processors. So overall subtract -50€ and that leaves us with a price increase of 66€ for changing pins from the cpu to the motherboard.
The biggest argument for changing lga 1151 V1 to V2 and drop the compatibility are the weak VRMs on z170 motherboards. 8700k or 9900k uses a lot more power than 4 core 6700k/7700k so its kind of a mess and trying to support all of them on old mobos is a huge can of worms. So even if it looks and sounds "greedy" from intel it makes a lot of sense why they decided to drop the support for older motherboards.
Everyone said the same thing back when Intel's socket 775 was on its way out... Gimme a break..
AM4 took the spot of Chinese x99 awhile ago here in Europe.i agree with the below sentiments that for socket 775 you could mod in a 771 Xeon for cheap keeping that platform aluvet
It’s the gift that keeps on giving (meanwhile Ryzen 5000XT SKUs are about to drop lol)
Personally I can’t even complain I thought it was really good value 2 years ago when the 5600 came out and was down to $150 at Micro Center like a month after launch (very lucky to live within an hr of one - also didn’t realize the 5600x3D would eventually be a thing later on). Which was a suitable replacement for my 2600 at the time, and I was able to keep my existing MSI B450 Tomahawk and 32GB of DDR4-3200 CL14. All of which happened just in time for me to get a 3060 Ti for $300ish (new, open box) to upgrade from my RX 580 8GB. At this time in 2022, a little over $300 for the 3060 Ti was actually a very great deal considering that the 6700 XT and 3070 (or even just the 2080 and 2080 Super) were still often $400-450+ used, where I live anyway. But yeah, the 5600 is a great alternative to the 5600x if it’s the cheaper of the two (which in “most” cases, it is), given that it can (sometimes) offer identical performance. When stock they’re nearly the same, with the differences in avg fps usually being directly proportional to the difference in clock speed. That being said, having mine OC’ed to 4.8Ghz has helped it keep up for the most part when playing at 1440p with DLSS/FSR
It's so hard to justify an Intel CPU at a consumer level. Even my workstation has a threadripper and it runs phenomenally.
I own stock on both companies, and I do hope Intel's GPU workout. But my best performing single core CPU is an i9-9900k that I know won't be forwards compatible, so I won't be replacing that until I'm forced to. Because at that point, it's an entire new computer.
You know something Is wrong when top end Intel CPUs for the last socket are still 300+
I use 5950x on 80$ mobo. 😁 Love this platform. I used to have 1600x which also works with this motherboard. Also I recently I bought another 2x8 GB of RAM and it works perfectly with RAM I bought in 2018.
I put a ryzen 5700g in a b350 from 2017 for sure!
Call me insane, but like... what if sockets had like backward compatibility like USB?
Just a what if, probably not in a million years. Imagine tho.
Well, it would be pretty silly to buy a USB 4 peripheral and plug it into a USB 2 outlet. You wouldn't get what you paid for as a result.
build a pc in 2020 with r7 2700x and x470 mobo and just month ago replaced 2700x with 5900x just with a bios update, decent upgrade i think
This is the same reason I'm so happy with the R5 7500F*.... a great $150 option to get people onto AM5.... what they really need is a R3 7300 or something at
I imagine AM5 will become the new AM4 once the price of DDR4 drops and ryzen 9000 comes out which will make ryzen 7000 cheaper (as long as AMD keep am5 around for a long time)
Yeah, the time I thought I was screwed by buying a high-end X370 rather than waiting for the midrange B400 series at the time, but it turns out my MOBO still has a firmware update for unlocking a newer CPU.
I do not have a dog in this fight. For a while I had an FX 8350 and an i7 3770. I upgraded a bit here and there and now have an i5 12400 and an R7 2700X. I originally got the AMD stuff to upgrade my step sons but things have changed so I need new CPUs. The boards are both fine for now but I keep thinking it's time for AM5. Just been waiting for memory and PCIe specs to all line up and mature before I try and upgrade. On the intel side I want an i7 13700k. On the AMD side I WANT an R9 7950X3D but will more than likely stop at the 7800X3D or wait for the next gen of X3D. Not sure yet.
Between two used PCs for 140 bucks,that have the same RAM ,PSU,and storage,would you rather buy the one with:
1)Intel I5 6500,unknown Mobo,GTX 950
2)Ryzen 5 3400G,ASRock B450M-HDV R4.0,in built graphics
Or would you guys buy instead for the money?What would be worth for 200 bucks used?
buy the ryzen and add a GPU. If you can't afford to add a GPU get the intel
INB4 AM5 becomes the new AM4 when AM6 and DDR6 release. NGL in today's/yesterday's world (starting somewhere around the DDR2 to 3 transition so like 07-09-ish) if I were a big player like AMD and Intel, that's how I'd run my sockets. One socket per RAM generation, new CPU gen every 2 years, new GPU generation every 2 years on alternating years with the CPU gens, factory overclocked and unlocked/higher silicon bin tier versions of each with more cache/vram respectively on their respective "off" years.
Hey, I edited my last comment which removes your heart, can you re-heart it, please?
When people upgrade their old Ryzen CPU, they usually sell off the CPU and the people who buy them are probably going to look for a cheap AM4 motherboard. So, I don't think that continuing with the platform has too many negatives from the motherboard manufacturer's perspective.
when am5 goes on sale its pretty close to in price, even when they're both on sale
The other thing is that i can see the 5000 series being a good platform for another 5 years easily. I've just got a 5700x to change my 3600 and i can see this CPU lasting me until 2030 for sure.
Imagine if AM5 lasts just as long as AM4
much as i'd like to agree my hp omen prebuilt's motherboard (higos 8309) only works with 3 cpus specifically and hp never updated or even has a page for the bios.
You must have amnesia or did you ignore AM2 and AM3?
And AMD as a new chip coming now out. It is not dead. I just made a new system with a 5900X that is great and fast and cheap enough to afford even on my disabled living on social security status.
Oops they did it again-- 5000XT is still coming to AM4 and I'm keeping my fingers crossed I'll even get to swap my 5900x for a full 3D-cached version in it's amazing lifetime.
They will not make dual x3D CPUs - at least not on AM4. They said they tried and it didn't help much, so the cost increase was not worth it in any case.
@@andreewert6576 oh it did actually help much, just the cost was the excuse.
Now we've moved ahead another couple years and they know hoe many people are still on AM4-- maybe they've changed their minds.
i was using a ryzen 3 2200g in 2018 then upgraded ONLY my apu into a 5600x. ram and motherboard is still the same since 2018
I might not be so sure but I am still sure AM5 will have at least 5 years before AMD will change socket while Intel will still change it within 3 years the same.
In 2023 I built my first amd based pc with "AM5" sucket and I hope amd support it with at least 2 newer generation, we konw Zen5 (ryzen 9000) is going to be on AM5 but Zen6 is still unconfirmed!
I didn't know it was confirmed for 9000 series that's great!
if AMD stick with AM5 i wouldnt be surprised if AM5 becomes the new AM4 bc you will be able to get cheap DDR5 and cheap CPUs for it
It's not fully a money thing, though. Memory bandwidth is starting to be a bottleneck for fast multicore CPUs--a new socket may be required to solve that problem. And then there is PCIe-6 and the corresponding devices--that's a motherboard thing, obviously.
AM4 is great, but I was expecting some explanation as to why AM5 can't possibly have a similarly long lifespan (it may not, but is there an actual reason?)