Was Super Monkey Ball's GREATEST PLAYER Actually the BIGGEST CHEATER?!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ค. 2024
- For 20 years, the username "packattack" has been ubiquitous with Super Monkey Ball competition. After joining the SMB Elite rankings on klow.net in 2002, packattack would go on to take the competitive scene by storm, setting some of the greatest scores ever achieved in the game in the process. Multiple of which, most notably his scores of 35,980 on A11 and 26,422 on E09, would still comfortably stand as world records today, despite immense persistence and dedication from his competitors. By the time he retired in 2011, another player would promptly take the mantle, and become the only person to eventually take down some of packattack's most highly acclaimed high scores.
However, following the revelation in 2021 that this other player had cheated his way to the top, suspicions naturally fell on packattack's own insane scores that would then be reclaiming world record status. The level of skill demonstrated in his 20+ year old replays was leagues beyond what any other player had proven to be possible under stricter proof requirements, and, consequently, an investigation was launched to try and find the truth behind them.
With every score in question being set in the early 2000s, the investigation required digging through what remained of long forgotten archives, revealing for the first time the extremely suspicious circumstances under which these scores were obtained. This included acquiring a now 22 year old VHS tape of never-before-seen replays, which proved to be some of the most incriminating evidence against his legitimacy.
This TINY Mistake Exposed a MASSIVE Cheater in Super Monkey Ball:
• This TINY Mistake Expo...
Expert 40 - The Hardest Challenge in Super Monkey Ball:
• Expert 40 - The Hardes...
The Super Monkey Ball Flash Games that Were Lost for Over a Decade:
• The Super Monkey Ball ...
Visit the new Super Monkey Ball high score leaderboards at:
smbelite.net/
Huge thanks go out to all of the SMB players from the era who replied to my messages and were willing to speak with me on this topic. In particular, I would like to thank sdkess, Deku Sprout, smilingjack13 and GameCube04. Without their help, the investigation would not have been nearly as comprehensive and thorough as it was.
I would also like to thank GameCube04 for letting me use one of his covers in the video:
• blink-182 - After Midn...
If you enjoyed it, make sure to listen to his other music on his Spotify page:
open.spotify.com/artist/2R8wX...
Thanks to everyone who recorded voiceover for quotes shown in the video:
/ ganon
@GregCubed
@joniivee
@Maximum
@Tony_SMB
And Mr. Anonymous who voiced smilingjack13!
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00:00 - Introduction
00:03:18 - History
00:11:30 - Suspicion
00:16:54 - Investigation
00:19:05 - Exhibit A
00:32:55 - Exhibit B
00:42:08 - Exhibit C
00:45:35 - Dispute
00:53:33 - Response
00:55:33 - Conclusion
00:59:32 - Credits
UPDATES AND CORRECTIONS:
General note: Voiceover for this video was recorded in 2023. Any time I make reference to the current year in the narration, I meant 2023.
00:07:27 - A new "next best score" (WR) of 34,666 on A11 was achieved by scrap651 on the 18th of March, 2024. This score would still be 2nd place to packattack by 1,314 points.
• Super Monkey Ball - A1...
00:10:42 - A new WR of 10,652 on E32 was achieved by Jezs on the 23rd of March, 2024. This score was also set without edge grinding at all.
• SMB1 - E32 - 10,652
00:21:56 - For full clarity, this specific 21,110 score was performed on a practice version of E09 on the SMB2 engine, but with the SMB1 camera. There are very slight differences in physics between the SMB1 and SMB2 engines, however the skill required to achieve that score on either is effectively directly comparable. Since this is by far the fastest recorded liveplay of a 0.1 only score on either version, it seemed most relevant to mention in the video.
00:31:36 - Here I misspoke slightly. packattack did not complete the E45 strat three more times BEFORE beating FerretDruid. As you can see from the screenshots, the fourth time he completed the strat was the completion that finally beat FerretDruid's score.
WEBSITES:
Full list of websites and archives shown in this video:
pastebin.com/dtxbJWCQ
CLIPS USED:
Blendra, byrz, CyclopsDragon, Deku Sprout, eddy0777, FerretDruid, GameCube04, IkeSMB, Jcool114, Jezs, packattack, scrap651, sdkess, Silverboxer, smilingjack13, Zlatorz.
Full list of clips from other players used in this video:
pastebin.com/6KPu5Wmi
EliteCoder video archive:
• Super Monkey Ball - El...
Vortiginous video archive:
• Super Monkey Ball - El...
All clips used in the credits sequence were taken from the EliteCoder and Vortiginous archives linked above.
Cck, Claris, D Oven, Deku Sprout, FreddyP, GameCube04, JuanElDiablo, sdkess, smilingjack13, SteaknCheese.
MUSIC:
Full list of music used in this video:
pastebin.com/AMmrCYFY - เกม
Discord: discord.gg/tgaVCj8Shh
Twitch: www.twitch.tv/jezs_
Twitter: twitter.com/Goober13md
Is packattack a TH-camr need to know if I need to unsubscribe
At the end you said you were removing your unbeaten scores video. However, for archival purposes to show the contemporary views, I would recommend archiving it somewhere or simply unlisting it. While it is ultimately your choice, if it became lost media, it would be a shame as that would make it harder to investigate things in the future. You never know if something one day becomes a missing puzzle piece.
@@raymondmckendry2125 th-cam.com/channels/g_j7kndWLFZEg4yCqUWPCA.html 5.5 million subscribers, I also see packattack04082 at the top of EA Sports PGA tour on ps5 in the past couple weeks one of the weekly tournaments, insanely low scores not sure how they're possible and the only good play videos are stuff like th-cam.com/video/EKh0MK4Bml4/w-d-xo.html. I also see him in past couple weeks on that game's forum yelling at the developers because the trophies aren't unlocking and nobody can 100% the game lol
sorry babe, can't get in bed right now, someone made a 1 hour video essay of a game i've never played
Video game essays are always top priority
Bro, this is literally my flavor of autism thank you
Exactly me right now but I like to watch these already in bed
*Same.* I love watching video essays exposing cheaters, regardless of the game.
@@The_Red_Scare Me too, I don't even care about the exposing as much as it's fun to hear how it was done and eventually figured out and the communities reaction too
was trying to take IL runs really seriously when i was younger, but gave up because of how far behind i was to jcool and packattack, figuring out years later that i was comparing myself to cheaters was crushing, thank you for this video
That's one of the saddest things about this situation. How many people who could have been legends in the scene stopped running it because they felt they couldn't match up to cheaters? They hurt the game forever by doing this.
I've personally always preferred full runs (SS or segmented) to ILs. Though I developed that preference back in the early-mid 00s when downloading lots of ILs for a single game was annoying, even with (now defunct) browser extensions like DownThemAll. Ah the good ol' days of SpeedDemosArchive... but now I'm reminiscing. Not criticizing ILs at all, I love to see all the different means of beating a game or level as quickly as possible, just giving my tangential 2 cents
Time to get back on the grind, pal
Even if the people put off of SMB because of cheaters wouldnt have become legends... speedrunning lives and dies off community. Whether it be glitch hunters, routers, top runners, or even fresh eyes coming up with new ideas. Even if every individual is trying to get their own best time, its the cumulative work of a community.
Cheaters that make others not want to play damage the whole collaborative system. It's definitely the worst part.
sounds like a lawsuit honestly.
Gotta love the irony in trying to subvert genuine competition by cheating only to wind up second place to someone who cheated better than you.
tbh i feel like they could just go along with this angle. have the competition be about who can cheat at monkey ball the best lol
@@hosaepalvin9795Monkey Ball cheat%
"If it looks like a monkey having a seizure on a tightrope, Then it's probably a rapid paused replay."
Words to live by.
Unless the monkey is actually having a seizure then you wonder what sick freak forced him to go on a tight rope!
My grandpa was always giving this as life advice.
Are you telling me that for the past 10 years, the monkey ball pedestal has been dominated by two rival cheaters trying to out-cheat each other?
I don’t know wether to laugh or cry
Neither. I hate that I just don't get surprised by this sort of thing anymore.
@@AleyckI tend to have a reaction of "yyyyep that checks out" when this shit happens at this point.
Ok I was confused. There was a video about a monkey ball cheater already. Makes sense there are several.
He’s a Family Guy
It's the speedrunning way!
Note to self: If I get Murdered, leave a note on my body that my murderer cheated in speedruns, my murder will get solved within days.
Cheaters always post stuff like "wow, I can't believe this totally unbelievable thing happened! What crazy luck!" It's shocking how often it happens.
wow, I can't believe this totally unbelievable thing happened! What crazy luck!
Many such cases
Well, so do many legitimate players when they get scores as crazy as the cheaters who say that stuff. You just remember the cheaters
My favorite is the legit players that say shit like "this run was trash" and "I hate this game." The second one especially gets me when it's someone that's sunk hundreds, if not thousands, of hours in to their game, almost like they're playing on just to spite the game itself.
Wow I can't believe this
My favorite part of this hourlong Super Monkey Ball speedrun investigation into a possible cheater was the acoustic guitar cover of blink-182.
As an outsider that just watched the Jcool video for the first time within the last month, a part of me feels like this was a forgone conclusion. The more reasonable side of me can see this was a painful labor of love for your game and community. Extreme respect.
The best cheaters are those good at the game. Their incredible plays are within reach but takes insane luck and time. The cheaters dont want to stream hundreds of hours for that one nearly perfect attempt. Its essy to try for a couple days then sneak in the cheated run.
I'm sorry, but Jcool's behavior is enough to know this man is unscrupulous capable of everything. Same happened in the Super Mario Sunshine community : this man doesn't follow the fixed rule when HE considers this is not useful. Pretty weird mindset.
I saw the thumbnail saying "He got away with it for 20 years!" with a picture of AiAi next to it and my mind immediately thought "Tax evasion".
Kinda underwhelming that it wasn't.
Don't let the speedrun cheater distract you from AiAi not having submitted taxes during the pandemic 🫡
I suspect he's on the hook for money laundering too. He's a notorious high roller
AiAi definitely committed some form of tax fraud. I mean look at those courses, how will the IRS catch you while you roll over what is essentially a tightrope.
AiAi Commits Tax Evasion
Oh man, old school slow-mo controllers from the NES/SNES era would just pause the game rapidly over and over again, slowing down the action. It’s crazy that basically that technique was used years later to cheat at Monkey Ball.
I have a Mad Catz N64 controller from my childhood that let you turbo any and all of the buttons, even Start. I'd be willing to bet something similar exists for GC.
@@wompastompa3692There are turbo controllers for GameCube, I've owned a few over the years but I never tried it with the start button
@@wompastompa3692 I had a turbo controller for GameCube back in the day
Yes, yes it does
Mad Katz jumpscare!!
This is exactly what is meant by "beyond a reasonable doubt". There's certainly not absolute, 100% proof here, but to say the evidence available doesn't show cheating is, well, doubting without reason.
"Hour-long video essay about Super Monkey Ball cheating drama" sounds like a kind of joke from an outsider, I must admit, but I'm here because I saw your video exposing jcool and discussing that and just... you're so good at this.
Explaining, presenting and editing things, I'm hardly the only person to go 'I've never played this game and barely know what it is, however I was enthralled the whole way through'.
My condolences to the SMB community for these revelations, but now people who put in actual, legitimate effort and talent can rise to their deserved higher positions.
There are a surprising amount of creators that do this exact same thing for their niche communities. The amount of games I've watched these about is ridiculous.
@@youtubeSuckssNowfr, I watched someone's 4 video analysis about the various tricks and slight of hand techniques used in a doom surreal horror level and I can't even play fps games because I have the hand eye coordination of a slug. I could never play super monkey ball at a competitive level for the same reason, but this guy's content is just so engaging, my puny brain can't get enough
Wow, you see a lot of TH-camrs claiming to put large amounts of research into their videos, and no doubt some do, but the degree of detective work and scrutinisation that you’ve put into this video is second to none. Truly incredible, your uploads never let us down. LOJ 👍🍷
Only comparable one could be the dude that was trying to find the narrator's VA. SMB fans are quite dedicated.
I think RIP Felix and pannenkoek2012 might both have him beat in the research department, but this one's certainly up there.
Karl Jobst?
Wild when people claim that anyone is the best (or among the best) at anything when they have little to no knowledge about anything they want to give acclaim to.
@@NihilNick I watch a fair amount of gaming youtube videos, high tier detective work went into this video, get off your high horse
the fact that jcool was the one to one up packattack is so funny
who else would beat a shameless and prolific cheater who put years into their game besides another cheater using the same method
Why am I not surprised that a discord mod tried to take credit for 'his' investigation lmao
"We did it reddit"
You could say it is a disGRACE amirite
not to nitpick, but grace uses she/her
@paperquagsire3431 that's on me, I just assumed
@@RapturePlasmidshappens to the best of us
I think one of the best ways to deal with stuff like this is to have a legacy leaderboard for scores/times set on old proof standards. This way they are stored, but separately from runs that pass modern proof standards. It can be a little unfair to the old runs, but may be the best way to deal with potentially cheated old runs.
That's exactly the approach we've taken! The new leaderboard website created by TonySMB (smbelite.net) has a filter on every chart to separate live scores and replay scores, with live scores only being on by default.
@@Goober13md oh sweet!
i didn't even realize smb had a thriving high score community before this point but when packattack's recording was shown in the intro i immediately thought "slowdown" i.e. trackmania. will have to check out legit smb records now, sounds sweet
leaving the video at 36-ish minutes in to immediately come back to pause buffering wires with the diddy kong racing boss theme was an experience.
I could write a whole paragraph to praise the effort put into the investigation and video itself. But people have already done that.
So I want to mention how much I love the entire credits sequence. All the amazing clips from various players alongside the heartfelt guitar song, it feels like an appreciation for all of the genuine achievements made in the community after having to sit through a such long list of callouts.
In my opinion the old replay-only scores should now all receive a red asterisk.
This
- makes it clear which scores are not 100% verifiable
- doesn't remove the scores
- lets people decide themselves if they want to trust unverified scores
- gives incentive for people to return and redo their score if they want
Any super-blatant cheaters like packattack can just be manually removed to avoid them clogging the leaderboards with unverified scores.
this is a genius solution
Incredibly well put together. Thank you for this. What I find really sad about this situation is I tried some levels back in the day when I was exploring games for cyberscore. I gave up on this quickly when I saw the standard. How many other people might have joined the community if it weren't for these cheated scores?
It's a good question, though I think that cheaters are only partly to blame for stunting the growth of SMB competition. When klow / EliteScores shut down and the community moved to Cyberscore, their use of a medal table for the overall rankings rather than a totaliser (total sum of scores) meant that most players would only rank highly or get recognition if they had WRs. One platinum medal (untied WR, effectively) on Cyberscore is worth more than dozens of golds or silvers, so the rankings never seemed fairly representative of who the best players actually were. Not to mention, medals from Party Games and Mini Games were also included on the same medal table. There was no longer an incentive for players to get a solid, well-rounded set of scores across the whole set of levels, just a handful of really good scores here and there. When the community started doing away with using Cyberscore, we moved to a spreadsheet that ONLY tracked WRs, so you couldn't even get your name on the leaderboard at all until you got a WR. In other words, it felt for a lot of people like there was no point even going for a score on a particular floor unless you felt like you had a shot at beating / tying the WR. This really served to put people off playing floors a lot of the time, and no doubt was a put-off for potential new players given the standards for WRs are so high nowadays, especially when for a long time some of those WRs were impossible to beat cheated scores. Now that we have our own site (and the cheated scores are gone), we've moved back to using a totaliser, and competition seems to be the most active and healthy it's been for years.
@@Goober13mdThanks for taking the time to reply. You've inspired me to start up the game!
27:40 Hell freezes over - packattack becomes a God at wires. Jesus Saves ✝🙏
it's almost poetic. just scribble out the part that says cheater and you have a Facebook post
cover artist at the end is mad talented btw. keep doin ur thing you funky little dude
As someone who is not part of the SMB community but is involved in speedrunning, I am really surprised that nobody questioned packattack's records until now; one glimpse of the footage is all you really need to see strategies that no human can consistently perform, it is like watching a TAS or one of those blindfold speedrun cheaters who do their runs without the proper setups needed to achieve consistency. Also, shoutout to Temper Grace for being a complete scumbag trying to take credit for Gooder13md's work.
"No human can consistently perform"
Well yeah sure, It's IL's. If you saw the actual real Monkey Ball IL's you'd probably have a similar reaction to some of the strats in it.
@@Ashragi Nah, I found the tapes of the real runs to be really impressive, but it was very obvious that the players needed to respect the 0.1 rails, especially as they started to bend.
Pack's monkey was literally bouncing from 0.1 to 0.2 without slowing down while having a seizure.
Although I've played monkey ball before, those runs just look SO absurd. Bouncing around on tiny wires like crazy and running straight into the finish, like come on no one thought it was suspicious?
@@Ashragi no thats the thing, I haven't played alot of SMB, I've seen a few people perform runs live (as in either in front of an audience or on a stream) but only rarely...but I have played video games for over 3 decades and have alot of times in video games (easily tens of thousands of hours lol). If any game looked like packattacks replays the game wouldn't be controllable, even more so on the sticks of the time. A game can't respond in the way it is responding and allow for the player to maintain control unless they were doing something like pause buffering. They look like frame perfect keypress wiggles which would explain the speed but not the control as the taps would be too much or too little lean.
When I watched legit SMB folks do runs I was impressed but I wasn't thinking "thats unachievable"... like one thing that gets in the way of packattacks movements is literally physics. He's wiggling too fast for the control stick, you wouldn't be able to wiggle that fast with the deadzones of the the sticks at the time, Its physically impossible even if you hooked up a robot to wiggle the physical stick as the travel time is longer than the wiggle in his replays+the stick wouldn't handle that sort of manhandling and maintain its accuracy. (and if you can use the dpad... you can't use it to do that, I used the gamecube controllers for so many years their dpads would not be able to do that.)
If you've played alot of video games and became pretty good at 1 or 2 packattack's replays look inhuman, and not in a positive way. Humans (or most animals really) can't maintain control at speeds that high, its why you never see gymnasts frantically wiggling on a balance beam... and yeah like i said before even if the human could do it the control sticks of the age (and even the ones today) wouldn't be up to the task, the deadzone alone kills the idea of doing such an action, you need the pause to account for the travel time.
like just pull out a controller and try to micro wiggle in any game and see how many inputs are dropped from the dead zone, now increase that deadzone by a mile and thats what you're dealing with 20 years ago.
Basically... its totally understandable why most people would believe packattacks runs, whats hard to wrap ones head around is no one with enough know how in "being skilled at video games" or this specific game ever noticed such a glaring display of fakery (It earnestly feels like a dragster situation). You often see people confuse cheating for skill and skill for cheating (competitive FPS games is a good example) but at the end of the day real recognizes real and its surprising it didn't happen here. Even in the video there is a segment where the person making the original discovery has a moment of "am i going crazy or has literally no one else seen this giant cheater shaped hole?!"
I'm not blaming anyone for so much time passing without anyone catching this, and it's easy to miss things in games that aren't your expertise (like me, since I've never played this game, only watched runs), but if I saw a Tony Hawk game speedrun, and the rail grinds had _no_ imbalance whatsoever, I would seriously doubt that the player was just super good at predicting or reacting to the lean during the grind. Looks like a similar case here; his grinds are just super precise with no deviation whatsoever
I swear that voice of Smilingjack13 has to be the Dean of Doom himself, Mtpain. Sounds just like him and he's pretty distinct.
It's def mtpain27. I recognized him right away.
Okay yeah I had to pause and rewind because it made me go WAIT
yes lol, sick stuff
Yup gotta be him lmao. Video has a lot of Doom tracks in it too, even some community ones like the Plutonia MIDI pack and stewboy's Ancient Aliens soundtrack. Crazy to hear.
One of the best speedrunning videos I've ever seen, the narration is perfect, the humor is spot on, I've never played SMB besides maybe once at an arcade but this is the type of video to make anyone care about this 23 year old game.
5:15 "packattack's prime days rolling primates..." 🔥🖋️🧐
sdkess seems like one of the most kind and genuine speedrunners out there
👏👏👏👏 Brilliant detective work! This was so long overdue, and a very significant contribution to the integrity and accuracy of SMB history. Watching packattack's E9 and A11 videos 20+ years later certainly hits much differently for me than it did back then. 😅Thank you for your dedication to bringing the truth to light.
it's great to see another video from you. been watching you for 6-8 years now (can't remember how long exactly) and the way your videos have improved over the years has been amazing to see. i think you really outdid yourself here. the level of research and insight undertaken in this video is astounding, and it's no wonder we have such long waits between videos. honestly i'm perfectly fine waiting if this is what we get afterwards. looking forward to the next one! i'm guessing that will be the second part of the lost monkey ball games, which i am very much excited for
Thanks for such kind words! To be perfectly honest, while this video did take a tonne of work to make, most of the delay is purely from me being lazy / unmotivated. This is the first video I made in Premiere Pro (previously I edited in PowerPoint) so hopefully there was a noticeable boost in editing quality. And yes, I WILL finish the Lost SMB Games series. Whether it will be my next video or not, I'm not sure, but I made a promise and I will uphold it!
@@Goober13md wait, did you mean windows movie maker instead of powerpoint? or is there a way to edit videos in powerpoint? also no worries on the whole unmotivated part. i have no room to judge there honestly. i'll be eagerly but patiently awaiting whatever you upload next!
@@Shurikenofdoomed It was a combination of both PowerPoint and PowerDirector. I would do all of the editing with text and images in PowerPoint, screen capture it and time the animations to my voiceover, then composite it all together in an actual video editor. I really love PowerPoint and think it is extremely good software for more than just presentations at school or work or whatever. It's kind of crazy to me I have videos with upwards of 100k views on what are effectively jazzed up PowerPoint presentations. I also don't think I've ever had a comment from someone that noticed the video was mostly made in PowerPoint without me hinting to it in some way first.
@@Goober13md i think few have considered making videos that way, and it should be obvious that i didn't think powerpoint could even be used like that in a way that isn't noticeable to others. honestly it's really impressive. after spending so long using a fairly unconventional method of video production, it makes sense that adjusting to something more standard would take some getting used to. honestly it appeared seamless to me in this video though. btw shout out to the ballance music in the chapter titles. that was the first game i ever played so it's very nostalgic hearing those little melodies
Hey dude, I've watched your video on Jcool at least a dozen times (as well as your other videos) while anxiously waiting for this video to be made (since i saw you talking about in the comments on one of them). I've actually gotten into SMB ILing in SMB1 on Dolphin as a result of yours and other top SMB players' videos and it's insane the level of precision and skill you need just to COMPLETE a lot of the levels. I can of course tie the best score for B1 given how mindless it is lol and I have some scores and times, while average or low on the cyberscore rankings, I think are impressive for someone who had not put much time in the game.
I've only been able to do all of Beginner and Advanced without dying though and on Advanced I used the warp goals on A6, A18, and A25 (also completed all of the extra stages for both difficulties). I would love to be able to use the warp goal on A11 but truthfully, the .1 wire was super difficult to complete even WITH rapid pausing. As of making this comment, the best I've completed on A11 is the .2 wire without pausing and I only have memory have of completing .1 wire to the warp goal once out of the many times I tried it but I'm pretty sure I paused at least once somewhere since I didn't even bother to save a replay. Some expert stages here and there outside of the first 4 were completable for me. E9 was particularly interesting because I didn't spend much time on it but I tried using rapid pausing on the .1 wire and could NOT even get past the first curve. In fact, I'd even be lucky to even REACH the curve at all. I'm pretty sure the only wire I could do was the .5 wire but that in itself isn't impressive and it would embarrassing if I needed rapid pausing to complete it lmao
Anyway, I made this comment for 3 reasons:
1. To give kudos to you and the other SMB players for keeping up the competitiveness of the series. Before I'd only played SMB Jr. on the Gameboy Advance when I was kid and it's nice to see where a lot of the level designs stuck in Jr despite the limitations of the Gameboy.
2. To give my own experience with the game and also gloat a little haha I would've posted some scores and times I achieved but again given it's from a beginner they're not that important lol
3. It probably didn't need to be said but it's to give more clarity and a reminder to those viewing this video and happen to find this comment. Many of you should be aware of a TH-camr named Karl Jobst who has posted many videos regarding cheaters in various video games. Two quote that he has strung on many of his videos are "A cheater does not cheat to get a faster time, they cheat to get a time faster" and "Being good doesn't make it any less likely to cheat". It is important to note that the most controversial cheating scandals are done by players who actually have a lot of skill. It's impossible to be a beginner in a game and cheat in a way that it won't be detectible to more experienced players. In the case of Jcool114 and packattack, as the uploader of both this video and the Jcool video have stated, both players WERE extremely skilled and definitely did not need to cheat to claim really good scores. Jcool himself has a 25K score on E9 that was livestreamed that beats eddy0777's score. It's clear amidst the skill and talent players will have, some will try to push themselves to the next level and set insane records that are tough to beat by any means necessary while also maintaining their legitimacy through lying, manipulation, and gaslighting, which can be over the course of SEVERAL years. I will personally never understand myself why anyone would go through such lengths and doing such does damage to their respective communities and to your credit as both a player and a person. But I want to also say that in my personal opinion, I don't think it makes them horrible people. While admissions to cheating only come on with after accusations, investigations, evidence to prove them illegitimate, what I mostly care about is the response to communities making their conclusions of their illegitimacy i.e. their apology, and what they do from there going forward. With no answer from packattack, it's hard to say how he feels about his SMB scores, specifically his cheated ones, but I'd like to think he has SOME guilt for them, considering he has long since moved on and I'd be pretty baffled if he had not actually reflected on it since then. If he wishes not to speak on the manner, then we can only really respect that for now (tho I know some will feel compelled to comment on his TH-cam videos to speak on the situation). It's nonetheless disappointing and shocking since packattack is one of the many TH-camrs I watched growing up but oh well, you think you know someone until you realize you don't.
To whoever read this, thank you for reading. Hope you have a wonderful day :)
Edit (4/4/2024): I have successfully completed the A11 .1 path without pausing a few days ago ^^
hearing the perspective of a beginner player feels as valuable as that of a pro, so thanks for sharing! i respect your opinion on cheaters too, i think that's a very compassionate position to take and i believe you're probably right in thinking he's grown out of his shameful past, even if he never comes forward to clear the air or confess guilt. as much as i'm sure we'd all love to know for certain what really went down two decades ago, we're ultimately not entitled to the truth. i hope everyone involved can find ways to move forward that are healthy and constructive.
best of luck to you in your SMB endeavors! and have a wonderful day yourself :)
Well said, and I appreciate you watching my videos! I'm happy to hear you're giving high scores a go. Not sure if you know this, but we recently moved away from Cyberscore and have our own leaderboard website at smbelite.net. You should join if you haven't already! :)
@Goober13md Yes ive checked out the site! I fear I may not be able to post what I have since my videos don't match the proof standards for Dolphin users which is fine by me!
@@sonriku7331It appears that SMB1 still accepts scores performed via Dolphin, at least?
@bb010g Yes, i still dont match the proof requirements tho for what i wouldve liked to post tho
Excellent. Your vid on the other monkeyball cheater (cant spell their name) is a comfort vid of mine, and I'm sure this will be too.
I really appreciate the dedication of speedrunning communities. In fact the other monkeyball cheating video got me into watching speed run explanations. You and everyone else's work is greatly appreciated
Edge grinding is my favorite hobby
Goodnight, everybody!
Im very disappointed in PackAttack. I really loved him for is super Mario bros records. Thank you Goober for exposing the truth.
are you convinced he cheated runs?
@@snared_ yeah, in the words of Goober, "if it looks like a monkey having a seizure on a tight rope, it's probably rapid paused."
@@snared_The evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of Pack cheating.
Is it the same packattack? Or a different guy?
@@anonymoose2474looks like it's the exact same guy
Alternative title : community takes 20 years to figure a man has no honor.
20:21 I think this expectation is why that one guy Karl Jobst talked about tried to sandbag his own cheating in some version of COD Zombies
Huh? You mean the joke in the cheater exposed video?
@@swiftfated nsf001-3 is talking about Prawley's cheated world record for the Black Ops Zombies "Shadows of Evil" easter egg speedrun, and the fact that Prawley played the long con and built up to it slowly over a long period of time with gradual PB improvements in order to make himself look legit.
Babe wake up new super monkey ball video. I love your videos man you’re one of the only youtubers who delves so deep into my favourite game series :)))
Lol Ive never really played it and I still got excited when I saw this video. You give me an hour long deep dive into a game I've never played and I'm watching an hour long deep dive into a game I've never played lol.
“Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk”
-Henry David Thoreau
You do a service for our community's integrity! Thank you so much for your and the rest of the team's work keeping competition fair and honest.
I've never even played SMB, but I greatly appreciate your videos on it's community's history. Their attention to detail, humility, and editing skill make them interesting even without having heard of SMB before finding your channel.
Amazing work, Goober! So much info and background to what the community was like 20 years ago that I loved to learn about. I also didn't expect the video to end on such a somber note, but it was awesome =)
you tell a really good story and show a strong sense of ethics.
I never played SMB and while I do enjoy videos about speedruns as well as cheating controversies, you are genuinely engaging instead of just informative. really well done video.
Given the multiple ways these guys talked... and that they did so much discussion on Game Faqs and such. It's completely possible that Klow did ban it but they just didn't explicitly put it on their board and it may not have even dawned on them to do so. They may have sorted it out elsewhere and just considered that enough.
i remember a couple of my own things being kind of this way when I was doing RPG stuff way back in the day. We decided something but because we were all discussing it in AIM and ICQ and such. we never thought to put it on the main game site, unless it became something that raised it's head as an issue again to have to address it there.
Just wanted to say that I think this is an amazing video and I really enjoyed watching it. I was hesitant to watch a cheating video because I think they are “milked” by parts of the speedrunning/high score community and just spread negativity, but I know your videos are great, so I decided to watch this one and I’m glad I did.
As expected, you handled this with the gravity it deserves without being mean, overly speculative, or negative, while still making the video enjoyable to watch
I also loved the classic Doom music!
Very thought-provoking video. The evidence clearly points towards there being unfair play, and I'm glad everyone will have the opportunity to understand why and how this is the case.
I'm very sick and was delighted to see a new upload from you. You made my day better. Thank you
Just wanted to pop in and say thank you for using music from the classic Doom modding community so prominently in these videos. Ours is a pretty tight-knit scene, and exposure outside of it is a real treat; I still remember how hearing Ancient Aliens music in the previous SMB cheating scandal video put a pep in my step for the whole day. Worlds collide. Fantastic work on the editing and storytelling of the video in general, you've got a knack for this kind of stuff. Keep it up! :)
I found a randome vid on yt one day of a song from some doom mod. Cyber attack I think it was called. Music was fire
Mtpain voicing smilingjack with doom music in the background is a dead give away😂 did you do that on purpose?
He might be anonymous, but the Dean of Doom is iconic.
Definitely know smilingjack13's voice actor! Especially given so many of your music choices. Very cool haha
We play on Ultra Violence and Rapid pausing is disallowed!
Just found this guys channel and I can’t believe the quality and how interesting his videos are. Wish he posted more often!
Another BIG one
Huge work you put in for this community, nice job!
Dang dude. This was kinda bittersweet. Been playing this game for over a decade and never knew about the competitive stuff until a few years back when I learned speedrunning was a thing. Then found your channel and was impressed at how in depth you went. Major props, very much looking forward to the next video. 😊
I've been waiting for this video for quite some time now... time to grab a beer and a hotdog, lay back, and enjoy!
Sat here for a whole hour watching this and i don’t regret it, thankyou for the entertainment and information good sir
I remember when you said something along the lines of "Cheaters are just a very small minority of players".
True, and apparently, they are all at the top. Leaderboards are starting to loose all credibility in the last few years. It's crazy how many of those "legendary speedrunners" are being exposed across most popular games, my main page is FILLED with those videos.
Consider it a purge, never before has speed running been this popular or widespread to a mainstream audience. More eyes and more fresh minds means old standing bullshit finally gets called out.
I can't believe you don't have more subs. I watch your other SMB video from 2 years ago, and that one was great too
I love long videos about games I've never played
what a sweet way to end a video. I remember seeing a montage of levels on this site System Crash set to Franz Ferdinand - The Matinee and thinking it was the coolest video in the world (partly because it would be a few more months until I got that album for my birthday aww). it must have been in 140p and that album's about to turn 20. well time to pack it in
dude this video is amazing your attention to detail is insane keep it up man! also good god i need a full cover of that blink song from gamecube
Thank you! If you're a fan of GC04's music, make sure you visit his TH-cam page linked in the description. If you like bands like blink and Jimmy Eat World, you should listen to his cover album Uncovered, it's really great! :)
I was not expecting this to be as well researched and entertaining as it was. I really enjoyed this. Great work, and I am sorry your community had to deal with this.
I don't even like Super Monkey Ball but I enjoy this sort of shit lol I watched your other video about the cheater mentioned throughout this one and that was good too. Keep it up, man!
i'm giving this video a thumbs up in honor of how good it is, and i encourage everyone else to do the same!
Omg scrap. I love you
omg. scrap. the goat
Great video man. I know nothing of monkeyball besides two of your videos and I was super engaged!
I love insights into communities like this that I was never a part of, really interesting to hear all these stories and theories
Commenting so the algorithm encourages this video going around. Solid video mate
"I have a fetish for a computer animated male humanoid fox... omg" - Ferretdruid 2002
gonna need a source on this one
@@gairisiuil its literally in the video
@@formerlymax yeah i was blind
an hour long video essay on monkey ball? hell yeah. can't wait to watch this!
Maybe it's because I'm not any sort of pro at the game (I just play it for fun with my little sister), but just seeing Packattack bounce around and suddenly lose all momentum seemed off to me.
One of the most challenging things about this game is the way momentum works and hitting the walls can completely screw you over, but somehow this dude gets magneticslly pulled to the rails and then his momentum just stops.
Maybe this actually has an explanation in the games physics, idk but it seems fishy to me.
Great video, I always appreciate the research and effort you put into these. I watched it right away
This video was very well put together, I'm surprised to see it's from such a small channel! Nicely done!
The song cover at the credits was great too, I really hope they know how good of a job they did with it.
Yooooo I'm happy to see you uploaded. Love these monkey ball vids.
So happy to see a vid from u again!!!
Hi, never played this game, never heard of packattack, still enjoyed the video and the detective work, and really enjoyed GameCube04's cover at the end. It can be devastating to find something like this out after idolize someone for so long. And I'm sure many compared their own abilities with the abilities of a (more than likely) cheater to the point I'm sure many gave up even trying to compete. But competition is at it's best when it inspires others to compete as well. So now that the exposing has been done, and the impossible standard has been removed, I hope this marks a turning of the page for the Monkey Ball community and it can heal and move forward in rejuvenated competition 😊
It seems Curious George picked up the ball and became Serious George. Excellent work.
Wow, I'm plugging away at some work and I put on the Jcool video because it's some of my favorite background noise to work to, and then I see that there's a follow-up of sorts in this video! I'm sorry this speedrunning community had their ranks taken up by TWO cheaters fighting each other for number 1, but I appreciate the explanations, interviews, and discussions in these videos. Fascinating to learn about something I have literally no knowledge about.
That's exactly what I did!
Great vid Goober! always interesting to watch cheater exposes.
I just wanted to say that it was a real doozy to hear when smilingjack13 started talking, because despite not being credited, I actually recognize his voice actor and am a big fan of his work
Since he wants to remain anonymous for this project I won't name drop him. I'll just say that I was playing this video in the background while focusing on his object of obsession, making it that much more shocking when I started to recognize the voice
Good to see you back 👍🏻
Oh my God your voice is infinitely more bearable in this video. Good stuff. Oration is an art, keep it up.
I've never really played SMB but even with pause buffering those runs look impressive to me. Of course they should be disqualified from world record, because they weren't done in real time, but still impressive.
giving the video a thumbs up, tears streaming down my face
This is an amazingly made video. The only problem is that whenever you said “The June Archive” I think of that stupid cat parasite and start laughing.
I never heard of monkey ball before your vids, but I love the cover at the end, 'after midnight' is a real nostalgia hit for me :)
Incredible job on this video, and incredible way to end it. Put a huge smile on my face :D
love these deep dives into old gaming records like summing salt does, but I cant remember seeing one of his in a while. Take over the niche brother its ripe for the picking!
This was an incredible watch! I can't believe the amount of research you did for this, major props. Also, the cover at the end by GameCube04 was totally incredible and unexpected.
Great video thank you sir 👍🏿
KarlJobst also did a unique research and the rapid pause/splicing can be detected if the monkey are out of sync or jitterish
Glad to see you back!
TemperGrace with the 'investigation any%' attempt
Anyway nice work Goober, certainly cemented my opinion on packattack from this video that he did pausebuffer and as such cheated due to knowingly accusing someone else of it. Makes it sad that the upper echelon of SMB scores were lies all along.
The end song was AMAZING!
this whole thing is extremely funny to me because I come from a game where pausing a lot in ILs is commonplace and allowed.
I was thinking the same thing - in a lot of games, pause buffering to get the best score is considered fair play, as long as you were pausing manually and not using a rapid fire controller.
Thank you for giving eddy my goat the screen time he deserves 🙏
Hi Fell
This video is insanely well made!
Nice new video! Was trying to figure out if this one was Powerpoint as well but kept going "hmmm don't know about that effect".
Also, although some tools would need to be developed, it's probably possible to derive inputs from replay files. Maybe that could help validate/invalidate other suspicious scores where you do have replay files
This was my first of these videos not made in PowerPoint! Finally upgraded to Premiere Pro after so long.
It would be amazing if those tools could be developed, since after posting this we've managed to acquire packattack's actual replay files. I would really like to try and zero in specific scores to try and get some better judgement on what's real or not. Hopefully that's something we'll be able to do one day. :)
wait i was literately just re watching your videos and took 10 minutes to realize this is a new video
I love that sdkess uses the Bionic Commando guy’s portrait for his profile.
I've only ever very VERY casually played monkey ball but it's always cathartic watching these kind of unfortunate situations get torn apart. very interesting from an outsider's perspective!
must've gone through a mountain of pain for one of those voice actors....
Damn you came back, I just checked your channel a few days ago hoping for a new video to watch lol