Same thing that came to my mind too. Not only informative, its still easy to consume, well produced and explained. One suggestions/request i would make: If its not too much hustle/work for you. I think it would be nice for a minority of viewers to have some links / literature you think would be useful for further information. Or maybe you could do a "books review" video, or at least share your thoughts on some of them. I think there are a couple of books that are taken as "motorcycle bible". I personally only read "Total Control" from Lee Parks, that was amazing, helpful and enjoyable. I wonder whats your opinion on some motorcycle related books. Thanks for all the great content you provide us with! Cheers from Germany
Dude, actually I think this is my first time writing a comment, good job doing these videos. From where I am, usually people take riding bikes as easy and simple when it's actually knowledge like in this video we all need to understand at first. Thank you!
I got new tires on my Indian Scout 60 a few months ago- commander 2’s. But something felt off ever since then. I was feeling a lot of slide and slip and wiggle over insignificant cracks in the road as well as less efficient braking and ABS engagement but still without strong stopping power. I was feeling minor road deviations as major painful bumps and kept seeking advice to understand what was wrong. I went back to the mechanic who glanced at my tires and said they were perfect. Yesterday I went to a shop that specializes in moto tires. My rear tire was completely worn and they observed immediately that a tire with REAR stamped was on front of the bike and the directional guideline was backwards which they said was absolutely the explanation for all my problems. Also since the tires I burned through brake pads and needed a rotor in a twice as fast period of time. What would the dangers be if I kept riding on this and how could it have impacted other parts of my bikes parts and performance?
Excellent video. It would be nice if there was a part 2. Interesting subject matter. Mike, I have a question ( well, I have many, but, will stick to just one ), does tire diameter affect grip? Some bikes ( cruisers, duel sport ), I have seen with different size tires. Narrow 21 inch or wider 18 inch. I have always wondered if the narrow 21 inch that I see on cruisers are unsafe? How much of a braking distance and cornering speed difference between narrow 21 inch and wider 18 inch on duel sport? I know that ended up more than one question. Sorry. If you answer just one, that would be helpful. Thank.
Coefficient of friction doesnt change with vertical load, it is a constant value (for certain road surface and certain tyre). What is correct is that Force of friction changes with the vertical load. My 0.02$...
First: Thank you for this vey helpful and precise explanation. You channel is one of the most informing if not the most informing one here on YT. I thought about this topic myself for a while before watching this video. Doesn't a narrower front tire also mean that the bike will lean into the corner a bit more by itself sorta like diagonally?
You talk about balancing the front and rear for the grip, etc. Is there a ratio, chart, manual or computation between the sizes of the front and rear tire ?
I ride a Harley 48 which comes with a beefy looking front tire (130/90-16). I find it hard on slow speed maneuvers but on highway it rides very stable.
Hi! how about the difference of 19 inch vs 21 inch front tire on adventure bikes? whats the pros and cons of each when cornering on road and what's the science behind it?
The main question here: why do you consider rear tire having a "higher load"? Braking is a lot more dynamic process than acceleration with weight almost completely distributed to the front so, in fact, front is more loaded up then rear if we compare braking to acceleration.
If you are talking about the PRIMARY effect you are wrong. The factors you mentioned are correct but are minor variations and have minor effect on the behaviour of the bike (and sometime cancels each other out). If you change the profile or size of the front or rear tyre it has a major effect on the behaviour of the bike (and a mismatch is even more noticeable). The reason for this is the the contact patch of the tyre moves off centre as the bike is leaned over. The different sizes (or different profiles), working in conjunction with frame geometry, give different arcs and changing arcs in relationship one to the other, as the bike is leaned. (And, in the primary speed range that most m/c's operate in, the primary cause of steering is lean angle and not the attack angle of the front tyre.) That is not the complete answer to the very complex issue of steering a motorcycle or the physical factors involved, but does give a better understanding of the effect of lean and tyres, and how a rider can adapt to get different desired outcomes.
Hey the video was great but I have a specific question I have a sv 650 but with a gsxr front forks swap and I recently got new tires and the front one is the right size for a sv but it’s wrong for the forks so it’s just a bit smaller still fits the wheel just a hit narrower it’s just a more twitchy and sensitive is there any other problems that I might run into like performance ?🤨
Hi! Could you do talk about why scooters have smaller wheels especially the rear wheel. I tried to search for answer but couldn’t find any. Hope you can enlighten me. Thanks in advance.
I am curious: The front tire size 100/90 19 seem to be only available in bias-ply, do you know why ? I just bought a 2020 Tiger 900 GT (i love her) & stock tires are a Radial 150/70R17 rear & a Bias-Ply 100/90-19 front.
curious: does this tyre width difference create a longitudinal torque within the bike/frame? Because in any given angle the front part can steer with same speed but less inclination. If so, does it lead to other behaviours?
What about wheel size, why dirt bike use big front wheel and rear using smaller one, as example tw200 had 18" in 130/80 tire front and 14" in 180/80 rear, the over all diameter is same, and sport bike has same wheel diameter? Thanks
A narrower tire also gives more turning rate than a wider tire for the same lean angle. That means, with a wider rear tire, the rear makes an arc with a bigger radius than the front making the motorcycle more oversteery.
3:10 does tire load sensitivity account for the increase in area of the contact patch? I’ve thought that the bigger contact patch increased your overall frictional force.
Yes. A larger contact patch sees less reduction of the coefficient of friction because of vertical load. What is really going to mess with your head, is that as the vertical load increases, the contact patch area grows. The reduction of the coefficient of friction because of vertical load is not linear and very hard to measure.
@@MikeonBikes That is very interesting, and I'd love to pick your brain some more about this topic in person, when we get the chance. Thanks for putting all this info out there.
@@janeblogs324 Yeah, I see now that Mike was describing the fiction force per unit area of the contact patch. Usually a force is measured in pounds, and when it is per unit area it becomes a pressure. definitely a head-scratcher.
Yes and no, yes only if the coefficient of friction of the tire compound is high. Otherwise, as the tire patch goes up, the PSI goes down and in most cases it balances out.
Was thinking I want more traction for breaking than for acceleration, but you can only brake so hard before you flip the bike. Wonder if that is a key factor in choosing front tire width?
Can I upgrade apache 180 bs4 rear tyre "110/ 80 R 17" tubeless with " 120/ 80 R 17" tubeless ?? Please reply. Eagerly waiting to hear. After getting your confirmation, I will do the upgrade work. Is it require to upgrade the stock rim also??
Given your great expertise in the physics behind motorcycling, I have a question.What would be your first step if you were to completely reschedule a motorcycle. Electric drive exists, gasoline drive exists, but not hybrid, for example.The Porsche 919 uses hybrid technology to show what awesome results are possible.Electric motors in the wheel hub supported by conventional petrol motors sound exciting.So if you would rethink the motorcycle, where is your starting point?
what if the size of rim is different, like the front tire is bigger than rear, like what we see in cruiser type bikes, what's the science behind? can you tackle it next?
Hi MIke! Is the middle of the lane more slippery than the sides? I mean where car tyres are not "cleaning" the surface usually the road has more dust. Can i go from the outside of my lane to the apex without worrying that i will lose grip? This fear is limiting my riding. Thanks.
Because everyone tends to lowside on the left. Just kidding. It's because the kickstand is on the left, so you get off your bike on the left - without having the hot exhaust there or fumes if the bike is on.
Hi thank you very much for touching on this issue very few people do actually. I have been wondering though... Is it possible to use the same wheel size for both the front and back wheels.... Say wheel size 130/90 for a 150cc motorcycle
Like your videos in the real sense, not the click sense. Doesn't the wider rear tire also conveniently allow for more room for feet, chain, exhaust, motor etc. and allow the seat to be lower despite high lean angle clearance? If the rear was paper thin, about 4 inches of width would disappear for the same lean angle.
4 minutes video from Mike gives us more knowledge than long 40 minutes videos. Thanks a lot Mike. Love your explanation and all your videos.
Thanks!
Same thing that came to my mind too. Not only informative, its still easy to consume, well produced and explained.
One suggestions/request i would make: If its not too much hustle/work for you. I think it would be nice for a minority of viewers to have some links / literature you think would be useful for further information. Or maybe you could do a "books review" video, or at least share your thoughts on some of them. I think there are a couple of books that are taken as "motorcycle bible". I personally only read "Total Control" from Lee Parks, that was amazing, helpful and enjoyable. I wonder whats your opinion on some motorcycle related books.
Thanks for all the great content you provide us with!
Cheers from Germany
That's Right
4 minute video of mike teaches me more than my school could in 4 years
th-cam.com/video/QQ0__WKpf2s/w-d-xo.html
Its a shame when you and fortnine, make such greate and knowledge rich content, yet riders generally watch vlog content more
I understood the principal from decades of riding, but it was interesting to hear it explained in a technical, academic manner. Subscribed.
Dude, actually I think this is my first time writing a comment, good job doing these videos. From where I am, usually people take riding bikes as easy and simple when it's actually knowledge like in this video we all need to understand at first. Thank you!
That editing is so amazing!!! Keep it up!
Much waited question answered. Thanks Mike!
My 80s honda CX got 19" in the front, and 16" in the rear!
Love the explaining, defently learned something
I love your explanations. Good episode as always.
Great explanation. It also helps with turning/cornering.
Ah, I love this channel. 🥰
best explanation and short. I can watch every second and it doesn't feel Like I've wasted my time.
Super informative, as always!
Aah just got confirmation that i can upsize both my front and rear tyres by one size. Thank you.
Great video Mike keep up the good work
Very real and informative video 👍🏾💯🇬🇧 thank you
At 3:13 he literally spells “FUN” (F=μN ) to describe physics. Could have used this in to keep my interest in university🤨
Thank you. You've helped me understand the concept
I got new tires on my Indian Scout 60 a few months ago- commander 2’s. But something felt off ever since then. I was feeling a lot of slide and slip and wiggle over insignificant cracks in the road as well as less efficient braking and ABS engagement but still without strong stopping power. I was feeling minor road deviations as major painful bumps and kept seeking advice to understand what was wrong. I went back to the mechanic who glanced at my tires and said they were perfect. Yesterday I went to a shop that specializes in moto tires. My rear tire was completely worn and they observed immediately that a tire with REAR stamped was on front of the bike and the directional guideline was backwards which they said was absolutely the explanation for all my problems. Also since the tires I burned through brake pads and needed a rotor in a twice as fast period of time. What would the dangers be if I kept riding on this and how could it have impacted other parts of my bikes parts and performance?
Loving these motorcycle dynamics videos.
Glad you like them!
Your intro is the one i like the most on bike channels 🙂
Excellent video.
It would be nice if there was a part 2. Interesting subject matter.
Mike, I have a question ( well, I have many, but, will stick to just one ), does tire diameter affect grip?
Some bikes ( cruisers, duel sport ), I have seen with different size tires. Narrow 21 inch or wider 18 inch.
I have always wondered if the narrow 21 inch that I see on cruisers are unsafe?
How much of a braking distance and cornering speed difference between narrow 21 inch and wider 18 inch on duel sport?
I know that ended up more than one question. Sorry.
If you answer just one, that would be helpful.
Thank.
One thing I've learned in engineering school is that motorcycle dynamics are just as difficult to learn as rocket science, if not harder.
Coefficient of friction doesnt change with vertical load, it is a constant value (for certain road surface and certain tyre). What is correct is that Force of friction changes with the vertical load. My 0.02$...
I just posted that it's the wrong formula for his point. Friction formula applies only while tire is sliding, not while rolling.
First: Thank you for this vey helpful and precise explanation. You channel is one of the most informing if not the most informing one here on YT.
I thought about this topic myself for a while before watching this video. Doesn't a narrower front tire also mean that the bike will lean into the corner a bit more by itself sorta like diagonally?
Thank you for making this video.
There is always smth to learn. Thank u bro
Beautifully explained.
Thanks!
Great content and beautiful editing as always.
Love the content man.
Luv your vids Mike
Great video, how you like your multistrada? I recently purchase one and I am truly 😍 with it
Very nice video!!!
Nice informative video
You talk about balancing the front and rear for the grip, etc. Is there a ratio, chart, manual or computation between the sizes of the front and rear tire ?
Snyggt jobbat!!!! 👌😃
Tack!
I ride a Harley 48 which comes with a beefy looking front tire (130/90-16). I find it hard on slow speed maneuvers but on highway it rides very stable.
Thanks for succinct explanation of tyre width, however I’m not sure the tyre diameter is different between front and rear, there must be a reason.
Nice information 👍
Well done!
Thanks!
Not only is the front wheel thinner than the back one on my hornet
It is also _smaller_ 😂
Makes looking for tyres really fun and exciting!
Love your tshirt mate
Thank you Mr. Wolf :D
Hi! how about the difference of 19 inch vs 21 inch front tire on adventure bikes? whats the pros and cons of each when cornering on road and what's the science behind it?
The main question here: why do you consider rear tire having a "higher load"? Braking is a lot more dynamic process than acceleration with weight almost completely distributed to the front so, in fact, front is more loaded up then rear if we compare braking to acceleration.
Traction goes up as the load on the tire goes up. Weight transfer makes up for the smaller contact patch on the front.
@@Mishn0 maybe, I was talking about the statement on the rear tire having "higher load" what is obviously false.
Cool vid
Thanks!
Hi..
Can you please tell me the disadvantage of having less width Tyre of Rear tyre for a bike.
i.e.,Rear Tyre same as the front Tyre for a bike.
If you are talking about the PRIMARY effect you are wrong. The factors you mentioned are correct but are minor variations and have minor effect on the behaviour of the bike (and sometime cancels each other out).
If you change the profile or size of the front or rear tyre it has a major effect on the behaviour of the bike (and a mismatch is even more noticeable). The reason for this is the the contact patch of the tyre moves off centre as the bike is leaned over. The different sizes (or different profiles), working in conjunction with frame geometry, give different arcs and changing arcs in relationship one to the other, as the bike is leaned.
(And, in the primary speed range that most m/c's operate in, the primary cause of steering is lean angle and not the attack angle of the front tyre.)
That is not the complete answer to the very complex issue of steering a motorcycle or the physical factors involved, but does give a better understanding of the effect of lean and tyres, and how a rider can adapt to get different desired outcomes.
Make a video on your aprilia rs250!!
Can you explain about double disc brake vs single disc brake front tyre on the next video
Hey the video was great but I have a specific question I have a sv 650 but with a gsxr front forks swap and I recently got new tires and the front one is the right size for a sv but it’s wrong for the forks so it’s just a bit smaller still fits the wheel just a hit narrower it’s just a more twitchy and sensitive is there any other problems that I might run into like performance ?🤨
What about Kaneda’s bike that thing just said “screw it” to all thin-ness
Asperity: unevenness of surface, roughness, ruggedness
Learned a new word today. Somehow that never came up in my BSME...
I've always wondered why
Hi! Could you do talk about why scooters have smaller wheels especially the rear wheel. I tried to search for answer but couldn’t find any. Hope you can enlighten me. Thanks in advance.
thanks Man
I am curious: The front tire size 100/90 19 seem to be only available in bias-ply, do you know why ?
I just bought a 2020 Tiger 900 GT (i love her) & stock tires are a Radial 150/70R17 rear & a Bias-Ply 100/90-19 front.
curious: does this tyre width difference create a longitudinal torque within the bike/frame? Because in any given angle the front part can steer with same speed but less inclination. If so, does it lead to other behaviours?
Nice
You and Fortnine are like motorcycle God's.
What about wheel size, why dirt bike use big front wheel and rear using smaller one, as example tw200 had 18" in 130/80 tire front and 14" in 180/80 rear, the over all diameter is same, and sport bike has same wheel diameter? Thanks
A narrower tire also gives more turning rate than a wider tire for the same lean angle. That means, with a wider rear tire, the rear makes an arc with a bigger radius than the front making the motorcycle more oversteery.
That make sense, never thought about it !
What's the music in the outro? It's lit!
Philippines, Shout out mga ka Racers
Can you do one about motorcycle exhausts ?
can you use the same sizes on tires? like 3.00-17 front and rear? would that have a bad effect?
3:10 does tire load sensitivity account for the increase in area of the contact patch? I’ve thought that the bigger contact patch increased your overall frictional force.
Yes. A larger contact patch sees less reduction of the coefficient of friction because of vertical load. What is really going to mess with your head, is that as the vertical load increases, the contact patch area grows. The reduction of the coefficient of friction because of vertical load is not linear and very hard to measure.
Pounds per square inch. Same friction spread out
@@MikeonBikes That is very interesting, and I'd love to pick your brain some more about this topic in person, when we get the chance. Thanks for putting all this info out there.
@@janeblogs324 Yeah, I see now that Mike was describing the fiction force per unit area of the contact patch. Usually a force is measured in pounds, and when it is per unit area it becomes a pressure. definitely a head-scratcher.
Yes and no, yes only if the coefficient of friction of the tire compound is high. Otherwise, as the tire patch goes up, the PSI goes down and in most cases it balances out.
can we fit 100/90 front tyres with 110/80 >> what would be the effects
I have the exact same multistrada!
Can i use a 120/18/14 for the front and back of my scooter?
Was thinking I want more traction for breaking than for acceleration, but you can only brake so hard before you flip the bike. Wonder if that is a key factor in choosing front tire width?
😊 awesome....
Can I upgrade apache 180 bs4 rear tyre "110/ 80 R 17" tubeless with " 120/ 80 R 17" tubeless ?? Please reply. Eagerly waiting to hear. After getting your confirmation, I will do the upgrade work. Is it require to upgrade the stock rim also??
Do you have video explaining why tires in front are reverse?
Given your great expertise in the physics behind motorcycling, I have a question.What would be your first step if you were to completely reschedule a motorcycle. Electric drive exists, gasoline drive exists, but not hybrid, for example.The Porsche 919 uses hybrid technology to show what awesome results are possible.Electric motors in the wheel hub supported by conventional petrol motors sound exciting.So if you would rethink the motorcycle, where is your starting point?
Be quiet!!
Worth info but why youtube does not give option for arabic translation? We undrestand some and miss more 😔
what if the size of rim is different, like the front tire is bigger than rear, like what we see in cruiser type bikes, what's the science behind? can you tackle it next?
Does this apply to front wheel drive car as well?
What tires do you run on your multistrada?
is it ok to put the same size tires in both front and back ??? ill wait for an answer.
What is the danger of using a 140' size front wheel. (140/70/12) for mini bike. Rear is 160/70/14. Thanks
*Cries in 90mm 10inch front and rear tires*
How would the bike behave if front tyre was wider and rear tyre was narrower?
See Thai Look modification. As passenger not very comfortable
Hi MIke! Is the middle of the lane more slippery than the sides? I mean where car tyres are not "cleaning" the surface usually the road has more dust. Can i go from the outside of my lane to the apex without worrying that i will lose grip? This fear is limiting my riding. Thanks.
Shouldn't matter much imo, just avoid white painted lines on road they are much more slippery than asphalt, especially wet ;
Can i put the rear tyre in front? And didn't follow the wheel rotation they call them reverse Installation is that ok?
wide rear = easy acceleration
narrow front = easy turn
I have a question that needs answering. Why do most motorcycle exaust are on the right side of the bike?
Because everyone tends to lowside on the left. Just kidding.
It's because the kickstand is on the left, so you get off your bike on the left - without having the hot exhaust there or fumes if the bike is on.
@@TWIRKNOLOVE Also, more under swing-arm clearance due to chain usually being on the left.
Hi thank you very much for touching on this issue very few people do actually. I have been wondering though... Is it possible to use the same wheel size for both the front and back wheels.... Say wheel size 130/90 for a 150cc motorcycle
Front tire should max be 110/90 section
my 125cc has same tyres in both front and rear
Try to take a curve with the rear tire in the front and the front tire back. Good luck. 😀
What about breaking? Doesn't the front see extreme loads?
Can you explain what a lever effect is? you said a biger rear tire has a much larger lever affect don’t understand what you’re talking about there
Thank god the science works out like that because of the fat tire was on the front bikes would look dumb.
So why have MX-bikes bigger Fronttires?
Like your videos in the real sense, not the click sense.
Doesn't the wider rear tire also conveniently allow for more room for feet, chain, exhaust, motor etc. and allow the seat to be lower despite high lean angle clearance? If the rear was paper thin, about 4 inches of width would disappear for the same lean angle.
I don't know, but I have a feeling I will soon find out ...
Funny thing is I raced BMX and on our bikes we always rose a wider front wheel but on dirt bikes it's always a wider rear lol.
Got a feeling that the video ended at the middle of the discussion. Needs a little more depth.
Smaller front tire for flexibility and highest leaning angle 💪
I think that front tires are narrower so that when you lean, the bike steers to the direction where you are leaning.
Now i know