My tip is this: I used to have a 60 litre Engel chest fridge mounted on a dropdown slide and with a purpose-built cage around the whole thing. There was a lot of wasted space and so I decided on a quantum shift. I pulled the whole lot out of the Silverado's canopy and weighed the 3 components.....= 100kg. I sold the whole bloody lot for $1,600- and spent $350- on a second hand 55 litre Engel upright fridge...weighs 23kg. Takes up less space and saved me around 75kg of weight. I don't believe those who say you lose all your cold air everytime you open a front-opening fridge. The contents retain the cold. I rarely use ours anyway...it would be lucky to get opened more than once a day.
For my older Engel, on 240V I use an Inkbird ITC308 to get my fridge to hold a specific temp and i can review the history of the temp etc. I use and STC1000 to do the same via 12v and set the engel to freeze. The STC turns the power on and off at the specific temps i set - has a minimum off time to protect the compressor.
After watching this I checked heat above the vents on our Engel MTV Combi 60ltr and sure enough there was plenty of heat build up. I lifted the cover and the heat released, let the cover sit for another 5 mins came back to see if heat had built up, and it had. So I removed the cover cut out all the mesh and refitted the cover and minimal heat was felt around vents. Aside from noticeably less heat it was cycling less. This morning I checked and again minimal heat was felt from top vent but, the fruit juice was partially frozen. The mesh very clearly traps heat and only makes the compressor unnecessarily work harder producing more heat to compensate for the heat entrapped by the mesh. We'll leave the cover on without mesh as sitting in the back of fourby the cover provides protection from physical impact and direct sunlight which should assist in maintaining temps.
The cover does have some insulative properties, though the negatives outweigh the positives. You've probably reached the best compromise cutting the mesh out.
I've had a couple of Engels over the years. I added a computer fan to the compressor end and found it helped dissipate much better than relying on convection. With the transit bag, I did a lot of camping in NQ and found it did help the fridge stay cooler. The cushion helps keep the sun off the lid when its in the back of the car. I did take to the mesh with a hot soldiering iron and cut 3/4 of it out though, left just enough for it to maintain its shape. Paying for a transit bag though. Tell them their competition offered to throw one into the deal and you'll get one.
I came here looking for diy covers. Now it seems i need to design my own. Air gapped with a pc extractor fan over where the fridge heat exhaust vent is.
@@muzzaball Agree - but I reckon the point this bloke is making is that its the whole cabinet that is emitting heat that cant escape - but this at least makes us think about engineering something better - the Western Capitalist way that makes life better for everyone. Congrats to LYH.
After watching this .. I cut my mesh out and during this cutting out process it was very noticeable the air movement passing my fingers as cutting. So proof it works 💪 I also left a few lines of mesh that was not covering vents to give a bit of support and strength in the case.
I like this to my kegerator fridges up in Darwin. In the buildup - the sides of the fridges are burning hot due to the fridge working so hard to try cool the intervals that it burns itself up. It's basically always running in extreme heat and barely reaches 4 degrees it's target. In the winter, no problem, sides are cool
Would also like to see results of this in and out of cover in direct sunlight as if it’s on the back of the Ute. Interesting results I’m surprised more people aren’t doing real tests like this
Would love to see your wonderful efficiency tests comparing 12v AGM vs 13.8v step-up vs 15v output from a USB-C PD supply (using a trigger board set to 15v connected to a 12v USB-C PD charger supply (you have to be careful to get one that can output 15v@5A connected to a 12v car accessory outlet, because many hide that the upper PD voltages like 15v and 20v only work if the supply is plugged into a car running a 24v system 🤣) I’ve found these new GaN USB-C PD supplies to be really efficient, and so I’m transitioning evening I can to USB-C where possible. It’s also nice that doing so eliminates a lot of extra cabling to carry. Great video ! ♥️
Interesting! Sorry I didn't see this comment earlier, what sort of percentage efficiency are you seeing from the pd supplies. I've also picked up a few and haven't had the time to play with them yet. USB C is no doubt the way of the future for small current devices, with PD 3.1 becoming more common, we'll have 240w to play with!
Thanks Simon , another great informative video, yes I’d be interested in seeing if the cover in summer , say 36-38 degrees have detrimental effects to the performance of the Engel. Thank you for the time and money you have invested to give us this info, this info is valuable to novice campers and 4X4. Cheers
My test setup would be to let the fridge run, in both environments, until the 5th, 10th, 20th, etc cycle of the thermostat. Then read the cumulative current draw at that time and compare. As it stands, the results of your test, at best, would indicate that yes, the fridge cools better/faster with a steady 14.x vdc input. As far as overall power consumption, let your tests run until a temperature setpoint is reached for both tests. Then draw your conclusions. My reasoning? I had a 75L Norcold (its similar model here in the States), but mine has a 24v mode. Runs on 12v or 24v, and when on 24v, the compressor was able to spin faster and for longer periods. Perhaps it was just my model's inverter-compressor setup, but I used around a 30-33% less power (Ah) on 24 vs 12. I used a 12v - 24v DC-DC converter I picked up from everybody's favorite (here in the States at least) online retailer.
I believe the cover is designed to insulate the fridge from direct sunlight in higher ambient temperatures.I suggest direct sunlight on a 35c day. Good video, I didn’t consider the step-up converters.
We're about half way through hot weather testing, both inside a 4WD and outside as you would find in the tray of a ute. We just have to wait for a few more warm days. Though I did record 54 degrees celsius in the back of the 4WD on a 33 degree day!
Hi Simon, as per comments below, 12 degrees is not the norm, 35 in the day and 17 overnight is more realistic. Also opening the lid is an issue, maybe when you do your summer tests introduce the inflated wine cask liners so that cool air is nor dissipated.( BTW I can supply the wine cask liner)
I am thinking a very small solar panel. With a temp controller and computer fans. It says in engel manual. Vent cooling will increase efficiency. Also steady voltage will make fridge run better. I spoke to snowy outdoors. They said the cover is to stop the sun heating the cabinet. Running in canopy it not really needed. Insulation on canopy would improve things. Same if you got windows. Blocking the sun. Merry Christmas and thanks for the videos.
Great test mate, My engel struggles to dissipate heat from the condenser in a hot car, I wired up a computer fan to suck the heat out (similar to what you did with the pedestal fan) and it's improved the performance pretty well
I would like to look at putting some sort of 12v fan on the fridge. I think it would definitely be worthwhile, even with the extra battery the fan would chew through.
That’s interesting your test on the fridge cover. I own a Engel 40L combi fridge and found without the fridge cover my fridge compressor was on more often and consumed more power. I had to put the fridge cover back on so my ice cream would not melt during summer. I live in QLD so our summers is probably a lot hotter I’m going to test this out with my Victron gear.
In my experience, a full fridge being opened and closed regularly during the day works better because it retains greater cold mass and less cold air escaping. It gets back to temperature quicker. My brother's covered Engel was in such great condition that Engel warrantied repairs years after the warranty ran out because they could see it had been looked after.
Great Video again Simon,I'm With Ren would be interesting to see the same test in summer Temps,but it too late I spent money on a cover...need to get a Volt step-up ..Thanks
Plus will look at adding a computer fan, I have a few lying around and did add fans to my 3 way caravan fridge too and improved its performance out of sight.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing I've done a fair bit with 3ways. Fans make a huge difference but the big issue often on 12v is the voltage drop in wiring, especially through a 12 pin trailer plug. Really do need super heavy wiring for long runs, or a dc-dc charger to boost voltage at appliance. They run really well when set up properly. Even in summer in the WA desert. Cheers PP
Mate nice video. Interesting on my 40l engel the water/condensation buildup between fridge and the bag when set on freezer. The new covers for the waeco cfx3 is just a protective cover with no insulation and no mesh on the vents. Unless the fridge is direct sunlight can't see the need for a cover .....and your test showed that. Cheers
Great video 👍 and I live in the tropics in North Queensland and I’m with you. No cover all the way. And also I’ve seen Engels rust on the outside from the cover from condensation build up. Looking forward to more videos of yours
Thanks, I'm at the opposite end of the mainland, Victoria. I'll be doing the same test again in summer, where we get at least 30c and see if there is any difference.
I have fitted a dometic fridge 3 way in a old van a few months back. A add extra is a vent fan in the instructions which you can buy, the new to old unit as a fan now installed. To make it run better. I made a controller from jaycar kit and relay. It works great. also online instructions say add a vent fan, and put insulation around the sides and top. I think the cover wrong. The cabinet yes but where the workings are no. It would be better fitting a cheap ebay temp controller and one or two small computer fan. Then you will see it run real great. Russell
If you look at dometic 3 way. The top heat exchanger that cools the gas, now has a fan. The accessories list has vents. Top and bottom. There also a vent fan for top.
We have been testing 24v ( Max 29.4v ) 7s2p bat. packs for a few years now for fridges, using 1865 & now 2170 LI and a 14 Bat. pack will run most fridges for 20+ hours, depends on draw, how full and # of times opened. Due to OHMs law the cabling can be 'thinner' and most fridges in Oz are 12v/24v so I know from experience that running them at 24V is much better than 12v :)
I might run a comparison in the future between running off of the car's native voltage (around 13.8v) and using a step up to around 27-28 volts in the future. Thanks for the idea.
Great scientific tests! I actually rebuilt my entire fridge slide carcass to get another 30mm clearance to fit the cover. Now I think that was in pointless after watching this 🤦🏽♂️. I like the protection the cover gives, maybe just cut the mesh out?!
Great vid mate,yeah would really like to know with high temperatures and with the sun on the fridge as most fridges sit in the back exposed with the window.
excellent presentation -- NO FLUFF!! Lots of useful info, well documented and explained. I suppose I could ask you how you feel about the Engel over other excellent fridges (Snomaster, National Luna) that are considered high line models. I understand that the Sawafuji compressor in the Engel has some interesting properties (and some people swear they're better than "regular" compressors (Danfoss and Secop included)) and MAY last longer but the downside seems to be not as efficient (more power hungry) compared to other compressors. For myself, I like the Engel design and construction a lot. You also seem to be a fan of them!
I have the Goal Zero Alta 80 and I’ve long suspected what you have seen with the cover and no cover. I definitely noticed that with the cover the area around the vents is just always warm and I feel like the covers really only gonna be useful if you are getting Direct light on the fridge like sunlight hitting the fridge directly. If your fridge is inside your vehicle the ambient temperature of the whole vehicle is just gonna slowly rise and rise in the heat of the sun and I feel like the cover at that point is doing nothing Except inhibiting airflow around the vents .
Another very interesting video. So now I'm wondering what would happen if the fridge bag was left ON and the vents were cut out ? Does the modest restriction of the vents really make that much difference ? Maybe it's because that the bag is a loose fit and the warmer ambient temperature air, is filling the void between the bag and the fridge, and it's warming the bag. Which might mean that the bag is working like a warmer blanket that retards the efficiency of the fridge ? I'm also wondering if some of the warmer air that the fridge is extracting, is leaking between the bag and the fridge ? (I better check that out). My Engle fridge came with the bag at no extra cost due to a sales promotion. So I'm lucky enough, not to have buyers regret. As the LED light stays on full time inside my Engle with the lid shut, I could see light escaping past the seal, which means the fridge is losing efficiency. I think it's a common Engle problem and something I'm going to fix today. I always thought the seals were too thin on these fridges, but apart from that, I'm happy with the Engel due to the low current drawing swing motor. 😁👍🏼
@@LockyourHubs4WDing My 40L Engel has also worked without a problem for about 5 years now. Even better, my Aussie built 60L TrailBlaza fridge has worked without a problem for 28 years. 😁👍🏼 I might take a photo of the Engel sealing issue and email it to you. I have read that other people have noticed the same problem. Maybe it's only the 40L model that has this issue ? Have a nice day 😊
@@CamperKev My 40 litre fridge had the same issue as being able to see the light on around the seal so I adjusted the hinge and it now seals as it should.
Very interesting..... For the test between full and part full, maybe do a test over a couple of hours, opening the fridge every 15 minutes and see how it goes. On covers, why do they make most of them in black now? Surely that will absorb heat if the fridge is in the sun at all. My cover is silver on the inside and black/dark grey on the outside. It seemed silly to me, so I turned it inside out so the silver was on the outside. As far as I know, silver will reflect warmth, but it can't reflect coolth! How about cutting the mesh off the vents in the cover? Would that help? Keep up the good work!
If the fridge is out in the sun in the back of a wagon, I definelty wouldn't want a black fridge cover! It might be interesting to see how much opening the fridge periodically affects performance and current usage. I did notice when I was testing the travel buddy, it would drop from 180 to about 170C in the time it took to open the door and pop in 4 pies. I'll pop that on the list for testing, thanks!
Good video. I agree that it would be interesting to see the same test (with/ without transit cover) conducted under higher ambient temperatures. FYI, I also bought the transit cover for a new 40L MT-V Engel fridge on the basis it would both protect my investment and improve it's efficiency.........Seems like we are all suckers to good marketing
Just a point on the 'Full or Part-full' issue - the test doesn't take into account the frequent opening and closing of normal operation. A full fridge has a substantial heat-sink (or should I say coolness-sink) effect, so frequent opening will have a lesser effect than on a partially-filled one, thus keeping it full should be more efficient.
Agreed, though this test was to simulate an overnight usage, so would be less likely to be repetitively open and shut. Unless you were having a big night!
Looking at just the fridge mode for the fridge cover test, doens't the graph show that the compressor kicks in less with the cover on (3 times versus 7), which should mean that a cover is more efficient over a longer period of time. This makes sense - the cover increases insulation and therefore keeps the fridge cooler longer.
If you compare the gradient of the plot after the fridge turns off, that's how fast the fridge section is heating up (steeper is worse). They'll be two factors effecting the gradient. Firstly, the quality of the insulation and secondly the temperature differential between the fridge and freezer section. It looks like the drop gradient of the fridge section after shut of isn't as steep on the plot of the fridge without cover to me, though there's not much in it at all. If it's the added insulation of the bag contributing to the performance of the fridge section, or the lack of insulation to the detriment of the fridges thermal performance that being artificially boosted by the temperature differential of the fridge to freezer, I'm not sure. Maybe a little of column A and a little of column B.
Hmmm, interesting. I recently got a 32l engel and haven't gone for the cover. It will be strapped down in the rear of a hilux dual cab, away from heat, dust and the like. I think it's a set up that doesn't require a transit bag.
Your series of fridge temp tests is the most informative I have seen. I realize this is an old post but wonder if you could answer this, please? I use my fridge as a freezer and as you said to run it like that uses 30% more battery. At -5 deg it will keep functioning on a 200Ah battery and 300w solar panels. At -10 deg it will cut off (fridge low battery level setting 12.4v) about 8:30pm and restart around 7:00am but a slight defrost is noticed. If I set the fridge to -15 deg during the day (the solar system handles this temp easily) and reset it at 7:00pm to -5 deg for the night it seems to stay frozen until the next morning. What would you recommend as the best option for the fridge and food ???? 1. Leave the setting at -5 deg 2 Set the morning temp to -15 deg for the day and reset the late afternoon temp at -5 deg for the night 3 Set the temp to -18 deg and just turn the fridge off for the night. Cheers mate All the best for the New Year
It's an interesting question. The answer will depend on the availability of peak sun hours average everyday. And that'll be dependent on your location. Basically the further north you are, the more you'll be able to rely on the solar. Another consideration will be if you run at only -5C all the time, you don't have much of a margin of error before the food could possibly be ruined (defrosted icecream?) I personally would run it -15C during the day and turn it down at night. By the cutout voltage (12.4v) I assume you're running some sort of lead acid battery? When these eventually die, I would seriously consider replacing them with either a DIY or lithium drop in solution. You can reliably go to 80%+ depth of discharge with lithiums vs usually around 50% dod for lead acid. This should more than cover a constant -15C consistent setting. While the initial outlay is more expensive, when you factor in the expected extra life and more useable capacity, their total cost over the length of ownership is considerably less than the equivalent capacity lead acid.
Thank you for your helpful reply. My batteries are 12month old AGM's. The old ones lasted 10 years so it may be a while before I can change. I will go with the -15 during the day and -5 at night. Cheers mate
In regards to the fridge been empty or not, would be good to measure when opening and closing the fridge as a half empty fridge would allow more space for warm air to enter. Just a thought.
I did notice a drop of about 10 degrees with the Travel Buddy in the time it took me to open it, pop 4 frozen pies in on the racks and shut the door. So I'm assuming the opposite would be true for a fridge and the removal of already cold good would make it even worse. I might have to try that as part of the hot weather testing. Cheers
Wow what a result! Would be interested to see what something like a Waeco CFX series (plastics rather than steel) would test like? If you were nearby I'd lend you mine for a test! Very interesting that's for sure!
Great video and topic mate. Talking about covers, I remove my cover quite a while ago now as I thought my fridge wasn't that efficient. Not only the power consumption, but I could stick my hand between the cover and the fridge cabinet and it was quite hot, however the external temp of the bag was quite cool. I have a Waeco CFX 50 sitting in the back of my car which runs most of the time. After having a board failure, prior to bag removal, I replaced the controller with a an Ebay special and fitted a 125mm internal 12V fan, out of a Samsung Dryer. End of Problems. The Fridge is now over 20yrs old with a neatly mounted digital controller. I do like your Idea for the step up and throw that cover to the shit house lol and your fridge will be happy.
Would love to see the same test performed with a Danfoss compressor instead of the Fujisawa to determine if the compressor design has any affect on the results. Thanks for the content Cheers
I've only owned 1 fridge with a conventional compressor, that thing spent more time being repaired than keeping my drinks cold! I'm a Fujisawa devotee....
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Hate to say it but I suspected that. I ditched that brand and moved to National Luna close to 10 years ago, fridge has been on constantly ever since. Always tempted by Engel but their lack of product development (e.g. digital thermostat is only recent) and particularly. minimal insulation are the turn offs. Thanks fo the response. Cheers
What i think the tests failed to capture was in the real world fridges get open and close multiple time per day... meaning a full fridge will have less air to escape when you open the lid as apposed to a partially full fridge which will have much more available air to escape. Also a full fridge has more thermal mass that will help the air in the fridge cool down faster (thermal equilibrium with the air inside the fridge and the fridge contents).
I think the problem here may be the ambient temp being so low. The cover is working like a blanket to keep heat in at that low temp. Would this be the case still in the back of a 4x4 at 35-42C? If it is still the cae then the only reason to have a cover (and I have had once since I bought the fridge a decade and a hald ago or more) would be to protect the fridge exterior. BTW. As a creator you might want to know that I am subscribed with all notifications turned on and I am not getting notified of all your uploads by TH-cam... I came to this vid via the end screen in your latest release.
The TH-cam algorithm is fantastic like that..... If you check out my other videos, I did more hot weather testing (30C+) and the result was more of the same!
Not convinced yet. My fridge runs 24/7 between battery and solar with a pretty consistent temperature. Often gets 50+ in my car and now I am wondering whether the case protects the fridge from this. Looking forward to you testing in the hotter weather.
First time watching your channel, love it. Superbly helpful review! Love the data driven approach, no nonsense just the stats. As you say I wonder with the fridge cover if there's a turning point where above a certain temp, when outside temps are higher (30-40ºC) the benefit of a bit of extra insulation in the bag outweighs the reduction of airflow... Will check out some of your other vids to see if you tested that :)
Would be interesting to run an infrared sensor over the fridge to find the hot spots with a view to removing the insulation or providing a small computer fan to improve ventilation.
Thanks mate, good info. I wonder what these numbers would like on a less expensive fridge. I know Engel are efficient anyway, but some of the other brands, such as Fridgemate, ARB. Off to go take the cover off my ARB 60l. Cheers.
I would also like to see the results of the cover on/off for insulation if the fridge was turned off. So how long would it stay cool with the cover on/off if the fridge was to turn off (real world: your battery dies and you are looking to keep the content cool for as long as possible)
I did test that in the other fridge cover video. The insulating cover does actually insulate better than no cover, it's just that the benefit of the insulation is more than counteracted by the heat kept in the compressor section.
Something I have always wondered, as I have a Waeco CF80 and my old one didn't have a cover. My new Waeco CF80 has a cover and I get overtemp cut off when in my car in QLD which I never used to with my old fridge. I thought it was the fridge, maybe not watching this...I think I might take the cover off and see what happens. Thanks for the info...
@@LockyourHubs4WDing yep, took the cover off the other weekend and going from turning on every 10mins to well over 30mins in some cases in the middle of the day. So thanks for the heads up on the cover. Who would have thought....
@@heftymerv The results surprised the heck out of me, I thought "This couldn't be right, I must of stuffed something up" when I got the same results after the third crack though....
I always assumed the cover made a difference where you couldn't get the fridge in the shade. When boating wy icebox gets smoking hot in the sun, now after buying a portable fridge I'm building a DIY cover for it so the cover can soak up the sun and not directly heat up the top of the fridge. Won't be using mesh in front of the ventilation holes tho ;)
@@LockyourHubs4WDing But you did the test in the shade right? I believe the situation will be different in direct sunlight during the day ( I understand that this specific scenario does not apply to everyone) Will keep the compressor part of the fridge uninsulated after watching your video for sure, hoping it will help the compressor run cooler. Thank you for the extremely detailed video, as a tinkerer and an engineer this truly is great content (found your channel today so this was my first video)
@@hampuslytz5393 there's another video on the channel looking at hot weather (well for Victoria anyway!) where the fridge had full sun, from east to west
@@LockyourHubs4WDing I stand corrected! Damn that just does not make senese, but the numbers sure proves it, so frustrating 😂 Yeah man we come nowhere near as warm where I live, wish we had those summer temps in Finland 😁. Will change plans and not insulate the part where compressor lives at all, to help mitigate the problems mentione in yor video, but if I can find stabile enogh weather I will probably need to do some testing myself at some point. I already have the materials so might as well use them to try it out, happy I didn't spend money buying one at least 😅 Best regards from Finland!
A fridge cover will only help when it is really hot (above 25 ambient) as the losses in a fridge are proportional to the square of the temperature difference between the inside and outside temperature
The temperature differential will definetly play a part, though when there is a higher temperature difference, the compressor will have to cycle more to maintain the fridges temperature, and even at low ambients the cover is stopping the compressor's heat dissapation enough that it's not allowing it to cycle in the freezer section.
It does have some insulating properties, though the benifet of the insulation isn't enough to counter the issue caused by the mesh blocking the ventilation to the compressor section.
I'm not sure, though I haven't had much luck with my personal waeco, the bloody thing is broken down more than it works! I must have bought a Friday fridge....
Hi Simon, another terrific vid from you, I am glad I subscribed! The data doesn't lie. If you look at the mesh, well it covers 50% of the ventilation doesn't it? I mean if each strand is 1mm, and there are 100 strands, I guess 100mm is being blocked (actual numbers may vary). I guess you could cut the mesh away and just leave the hole, would that help? Cheers mate.
I'm doing some hot weather testing (taking a while because 30degree plus days in Vic take a while to come around!) Once I finish that up, I might have to sacrifice the mesh to see if we can get the best of both worlds.
Yes please, can you do a test in higher ambient temperatures. You could use a heater in a room. I’m sick of using my protector, gets in the way when accessing the fridge. I always thought that it was ok to put up with it for better fridge/freezer efficiency. Now it makes sense when I set the temp to -13C and the ice cream doesn’t go rock hard..... I know first world problems 🤣🤣🤣
I would love to see a hot weather test, how close are you? 😉 ALSO I would love to know the internal cabin temperature difference between your white cruiser and a black one?
I've always said covers are to only protect your fridge from scratches so forth, but I have two engel fridges combi 57 with cover and MT45 without a cover and I've found real dusty condition it gets in between the fridge and the cover and scratches ya fridge? As the MT45 has nearly no scratches but yet combi is covered in fine scratches
Was the water in the fridge and freezer put in at ambient and made to cool down with the fridge or was it already chilled? And for the fridge full and empty tests again, did the fridge have to cool the contents from ambient or did you test it once already at temp? I think you’d find a full fridge already with everything cold will use less power to keep it all cold than an empty one. Just removing 10 litres would make little difference. It’s proven that if you have a large thermal mass (fridge full) the unit won’t have to work as hard to remain cold as if it was empty. Also you need to test with the fan and without but both with the cover off as it could just be the fan improving it either way. 3% extra use might not be a lot over 12hours but over a month it’s heaps of Ah. What temp settings were your fridge and freezer set to? You say the freezer wasn’t turning back on again - I’m sure it was. That was a temp graph not a current draw or load graph. It likely cycles on/off in very short bursts to maintain the set temp. If it didn’t turn back on then the unit would keep warming up and this is not being observed. Please note the word is hysteresis not hysterious. The problem with fridge covers is they keep heat in as well as keep heat out. They work best when the fridge is in sunlight as they reduce it heating up. If the fridge isn’t in the sun, they will trap heat and the fridge is probably better off without the cover.
It could be, though knowing that the fridge can't dissapate the heat generated in the compressor section in the dark at 12C, is the extra insulation going to help at high ambients when even more heat will be generated in the compressor section and they'll be less of a temperature differential between the ambient and the air inside the compressor section? Not sure, though will find out this summer!
Switching to Lithium battery is better than step up transformer. Constant voltage, higher drawdown capacity, 100AH = 80AH usable. AGM 100AH = 50 AH usable, assuming there is a good DC-DC charger in use that can actually charge the AGM to 100%
While lithium batteries have their advantages including maintaining a higher voltage over the discharge and will allow a deeper discharge than an AGM, you still don't get charging voltage (just over 14V) like you do with a step-up.
So a thought, two fans, or more, the fans fitted on vent. Bottom fan, blowing in. Top fan blowing out. You could put one on each side. The fans run about 35mA. Not much, with a temp controller there will run when set right, on a hot day more, on a cold day maybe not at all. Next. The cheap insulation. Put on three sides and top. Maybe Styrofoam or foam. Also if fitted in a canopy of a tourer, the canopy could have insulation. Or canopy with dust free venting where the fridge is fitted. Most people want fridge sides, but what's better is venting first. The heat needs to dissipate, any one will sell anything if people buy it. Maybe a canopy that positive vents. Helps fridge and stops dust.
They all sound like decent ideas, increase the airflow, increased insulation and control the external environment. I think I'll look at the airflow first.
Apart from some insulation value, most people spend a lot of money on their portable fridge. Unless you spend your money on something very cheap from China. The cover will protect your investment from scratches, and things bouncing around in the back of our 4x4, a cover is worth its weight in gold.
I guess it depends, if it's on a slide with a cage, there's probably less need for the protection. Though if it's in the back of a tradie ute, definitely.
@Lock your Hubs 4WDing I agree, my myCoolman was on a drop slide for a while, the drop slides are not designed for space for covers. Its a bit battered from not having a cover. In my latest set-up its protected very well, but the damage done. In this set-up I still have no insulation on a hot day. Steel fridges are a lovely conductor lol
Definitely interesting results and I wonder if this is across the different brands of fridges like Dometic/Waeco etc... With the cover supposedly to reduce the amount of heat gain under direct sun exposure, I wonder what your results would be if you repeated the same test under direct sunlight and warmish conditions? Would the heat build up be less, therefore requiring less heat dissipation and the fridge/freezer models then being more efficient than those without a cover?
You have missed many important factors. Covers are a performance advantage for certain casing materials in sunlight/high heat situations. Steel (engel) and plastic fridges (waeco etc) suffer from significant heat absorption in sunlight/ high heat situations which can be reduced by covers. The covers mask the design flaw essentially for incorrect casing material for the Aussie climate. Fibreglass and aluminium cased fridges don't need or even sell covers for performance advantage.... they don't need them. I am however going to investigate a small solar fan to improve the airflow around the compressor of my fibreglass Evacool 😁
We're half way through the hot weather testing, you might be surprised by the results! On a 33 degree day, we saw a max temp of 54 degrees in the back of my white 80 series!
Hmmmm ... I'm not sure. I know with the Travel Buddy and the step up, you chewed more current for a smaller amount of time during the preheat and then less time cooking saved substantial battery capacity, though would have to actually test to verify with the fridge.
Keep the fridge full to stop the drinks and food bouncing around :) Does the cover block the air flow around the motor? Cover good for when the fridge is sitting in the sun
What's your best fridge mod or tip?
Ive put a PC fan sucking heat out of the compressor cavity parallel with the other fan
My tip is this: I used to have a 60 litre Engel chest fridge mounted on a dropdown slide and with a purpose-built cage around the whole thing. There was a lot of wasted space and so I decided on a quantum shift. I pulled the whole lot out of the Silverado's canopy and weighed the 3 components.....= 100kg.
I sold the whole bloody lot for $1,600- and spent $350- on a second hand 55 litre Engel upright fridge...weighs 23kg. Takes up less space and saved me around 75kg of weight.
I don't believe those who say you lose all your cold air everytime you open a front-opening fridge. The contents retain the cold. I rarely use ours anyway...it would be lucky to get opened more than once a day.
I don't know why front opening fridges aren't more popular especially in canopy setups.
For my older Engel, on 240V I use an Inkbird ITC308 to get my fridge to hold a specific temp and i can review the history of the temp etc. I use and STC1000 to do the same via 12v and set the engel to freeze. The STC turns the power on and off at the specific temps i set - has a minimum off time to protect the compressor.
Give the wife her own fridge. She looks after hers, I look after mine. (Beer must be maintained meticulously)
After watching this I checked heat above the vents on our Engel MTV Combi 60ltr and sure enough there was plenty of heat build up. I lifted the cover and the heat released, let the cover sit for another 5 mins came back to see if heat had built up, and it had. So I removed the cover cut out all the mesh and refitted the cover and minimal heat was felt around vents. Aside from noticeably less heat it was cycling less. This morning I checked and again minimal heat was felt from top vent but, the fruit juice was partially frozen. The mesh very clearly traps heat and only makes the compressor unnecessarily work harder producing more heat to compensate for the heat entrapped by the mesh. We'll leave the cover on without mesh as sitting in the back of fourby the cover provides protection from physical impact and direct sunlight which should assist in maintaining temps.
The cover does have some insulative properties, though the negatives outweigh the positives.
You've probably reached the best compromise cutting the mesh out.
Thanks. Looking forward to seeing your testing in high temperatures.
It'll certainly be interesting.
I've had a couple of Engels over the years. I added a computer fan to the compressor end and found it helped dissipate much better than relying on convection.
With the transit bag, I did a lot of camping in NQ and found it did help the fridge stay cooler. The cushion helps keep the sun off the lid when its in the back of the car. I did take to the mesh with a hot soldiering iron and cut 3/4 of it out though, left just enough for it to maintain its shape.
Paying for a transit bag though. Tell them their competition offered to throw one into the deal and you'll get one.
In the sun, that may well be the answer, take a hot knife to the mesh.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing 100% take out all the mesh and add a small fan if your model does not have one.
@@ozkite I'm in the middle of testing just the insulation on the fridge and it looks like you're right.
I came here looking for diy covers.
Now it seems i need to design my own. Air gapped with a pc extractor fan over where the fridge heat exhaust vent is.
Exactly!
I'd be interested to see how the same fridge and bag respond if you remove the mesh on the openings of the bag.
That was my thought too!
@@muzzaball Agree - but I reckon the point this bloke is making is that its the whole cabinet that is emitting heat that cant escape - but this at least makes us think about engineering something better - the Western Capitalist way that makes life better for everyone. Congrats to LYH.
After watching this .. I cut my mesh out and during this cutting out process it was very noticeable the air movement passing my fingers as cutting.
So proof it works 💪 I also left a few lines of mesh that was not covering vents to give a bit of support and strength in the case.
Great info, I have debated myself many times on the cover. I will continue to run with no cover & just do my best to keep it out of the sun.
That's my next test, just have to wait for the summer.
I like this to my kegerator fridges up in Darwin. In the buildup - the sides of the fridges are burning hot due to the fridge working so hard to try cool the intervals that it burns itself up. It's basically always running in extreme heat and barely reaches 4 degrees it's target. In the winter, no problem, sides are cool
Would also like to see results of this in and out of cover in direct sunlight as if it’s on the back of the Ute. Interesting results I’m surprised more people aren’t doing real tests like this
As soon as Summer arrives, I'll give it another go in the back of he 4WD.
Classic - well done - i had a suspicion these covers were dodgy.
Definitely not for my Engel!
Would love to see your wonderful efficiency tests comparing 12v AGM vs 13.8v step-up vs 15v output from a USB-C PD supply (using a trigger board set to 15v connected to a 12v USB-C PD charger supply (you have to be careful to get one that can output 15v@5A connected to a 12v car accessory outlet, because many hide that the upper PD voltages like 15v and 20v only work if the supply is plugged into a car running a 24v system 🤣)
I’ve found these new GaN USB-C PD supplies to be really efficient, and so I’m transitioning evening I can to USB-C where possible. It’s also nice that doing so eliminates a lot of extra cabling to carry.
Great video ! ♥️
Interesting! Sorry I didn't see this comment earlier, what sort of percentage efficiency are you seeing from the pd supplies. I've also picked up a few and haven't had the time to play with them yet. USB C is no doubt the way of the future for small current devices, with PD 3.1 becoming more common, we'll have 240w to play with!
After seeing the results I purchased a 12v computer fan and will attach to fridge to help ventilation.
I was really surprised with the results, I think a would not only make the fridge work better, but probably use less battery over time.
Thanks Simon , another great informative video, yes I’d be interested in seeing if the cover in summer , say 36-38 degrees have detrimental effects to the performance of the Engel. Thank you for the time and money you have invested to give us this info, this info is valuable to novice campers and 4X4. Cheers
Glad you liked it! For once I'm actually looking forward to summer and do the testing in the next heat wave.
This is what I was interested to know. Maybe the covers are a summer only option. Also test in shade and direct sunlight.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing have you done the test in summer yet?
My test setup would be to let the fridge run, in both environments, until the 5th, 10th, 20th, etc cycle of the thermostat. Then read the cumulative current draw at that time and compare. As it stands, the results of your test, at best, would indicate that yes, the fridge cools better/faster with a steady 14.x vdc input. As far as overall power consumption, let your tests run until a temperature setpoint is reached for both tests. Then draw your conclusions.
My reasoning? I had a 75L Norcold (its similar model here in the States), but mine has a 24v mode. Runs on 12v or 24v, and when on 24v, the compressor was able to spin faster and for longer periods. Perhaps it was just my model's inverter-compressor setup, but I used around a 30-33% less power (Ah) on 24 vs 12. I used a 12v - 24v DC-DC converter I picked up from everybody's favorite (here in the States at least) online retailer.
Also looking forward to test in higher temperature as I’m in Queensland
Thanks and keep up the great videos
Not quite FNQ temps, but all the testing was done in 30+ degree temps th-cam.com/video/_fhnGbGyZVg/w-d-xo.html
I believe the cover is designed to insulate the fridge from direct sunlight in higher ambient temperatures.I suggest direct sunlight on a 35c day. Good video, I didn’t consider the step-up converters.
We're about half way through hot weather testing, both inside a 4WD and outside as you would find in the tray of a ute. We just have to wait for a few more warm days. Though I did record 54 degrees celsius in the back of the 4WD on a 33 degree day!
Certainly keen to see the summer test
It's done, search the channel!
It’s all about airflow just like a car radiator. mesh over the front increased heat, mesh over the Engle increased heat.
Exactly!
Hi Simon, as per comments below, 12 degrees is not the norm, 35 in the day and 17 overnight is more realistic. Also opening the lid is an issue, maybe when you do your summer tests introduce the inflated wine cask liners so that cool air is nor dissipated.( BTW I can supply the wine cask liner)
Do you drink wine out of a cask? You might be living on the wrong side of town after all!
Facinating results with the cover section. I am removing mine as a result.
Thanks, the results surprised me!
I am thinking a very small solar panel. With a temp controller and computer fans. It says in engel manual. Vent cooling will increase efficiency. Also steady voltage will make fridge run better. I spoke to snowy outdoors. They said the cover is to stop the sun heating the cabinet. Running in canopy it not really needed. Insulation on canopy would improve things. Same if you got windows. Blocking the sun. Merry Christmas and thanks for the videos.
I'll have the answer soon! I saw a peak of 54 degrees in the back of the 'Cruiser on a 32 degree day!
Massive review! Very insightful. I appreciate your efforts. You are a scientist indeed!
Thank you kindly!
Great test mate, My engel struggles to dissipate heat from the condenser in a hot car, I wired up a computer fan to suck the heat out (similar to what you did with the pedestal fan) and it's improved the performance pretty well
I would like to look at putting some sort of 12v fan on the fridge. I think it would definitely be worthwhile, even with the extra battery the fan would chew through.
All 40 ltr Engel's have internal fan to circulate air through the condenser
That’s interesting your test on the fridge cover. I own a Engel 40L combi fridge and found without the fridge cover my fridge compressor was on more often and consumed more power. I had to put the fridge cover back on so my ice cream would not melt during summer. I live in QLD so our summers is probably a lot hotter
I’m going to test this out with my Victron gear.
Maybe they fixed the ventilation issue with the 40L combi fridge cover? Is there still mesh over the grill?
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Yes still has the mesh. My Engel is about 4 or 5 years old. Could be older
In my experience, a full fridge being opened and closed regularly during the day works better because it retains greater cold mass and less cold air escaping. It gets back to temperature quicker.
My brother's covered Engel was in such great condition that Engel warrantied repairs years after the warranty ran out because they could see it had been looked after.
The more efficiency with larger thermal mass makes sense to me. Initally I bought the bag to try and keep the fridge in good nick as well.
Spot on, greater thermal mass in the full fridge and less escaping air mass.
Great Video again Simon,I'm With Ren would be interesting to see the same test in summer Temps,but it too late I spent money on a cover...need to get a Volt step-up ..Thanks
As long as you've got the extra battery capacity, it looks as good a mod for fridges as for the travel buddy.
No you dont
Plus will look at adding a computer fan, I have a few lying around and did add fans to my 3 way caravan fridge too and improved its performance out of sight.
I'm looking at testing a step up into the 12V circuit of a 3 way fridge. I think there may be a performance advantage there as well, time will tell.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing I've done a fair bit with 3ways. Fans make a huge difference but the big issue often on 12v is the voltage drop in wiring, especially through a 12 pin trailer plug. Really do need super heavy wiring for long runs, or a dc-dc charger to boost voltage at appliance. They run really well when set up properly. Even in summer in the WA desert. Cheers PP
Your tests are very interesting I would be curious to see in hot weather. I usually leave my tail gait window up to try and get some air in the car.
Search the channel, I since done the hot weather testing as well.
Interesting 🤔 look forward to the summer tests. Thanks for the video 👍
No worries mate!
Definately keen to see how efficient the covers are at 40 degrees. Also interested to see if other brands suffer the same problem. Great content👍
Thanks mate! It'll definetly be an interesting test.
Mate nice video. Interesting on my 40l engel the water/condensation buildup between fridge and the bag when set on freezer. The new covers for the waeco cfx3 is just a protective cover with no insulation and no mesh on the vents.
Unless the fridge is direct sunlight can't see the need for a cover .....and your test showed that.
Cheers
I'm doing a hot weather outside and back of 4WD test at the moment, so keep an eye out.
Well done mate! I almost bought the cover and now I'm glad I didn't. Thanks so Much. GOD, Guns & Gumbo
Glad to help!
Great video 👍 and I live in the tropics in North Queensland and I’m with you. No cover all the way. And also I’ve seen Engels rust on the outside from the cover from condensation build up. Looking forward to more videos of yours
Thanks, I'm at the opposite end of the mainland, Victoria. I'll be doing the same test again in summer, where we get at least 30c and see if there is any difference.
Ive often thought my fridge runs hotter with the cover on. I agree the cover keeps the heat in.
The proof is in the pudding. Seems it does!
I have fitted a dometic fridge 3 way in a old van a few months back. A add extra is a vent fan in the instructions which you can buy, the new to old unit as a fan now installed. To make it run better. I made a controller from jaycar kit and relay. It works great. also online instructions say add a vent fan, and put insulation around the sides and top. I think the cover wrong. The cabinet yes but where the workings are no. It would be better fitting a cheap ebay temp controller and one or two small computer fan. Then you will see it run real great. Russell
I think internal fans would help immensely.
If you look at dometic 3 way. The top heat exchanger that cools the gas, now has a fan. The accessories list has vents. Top and bottom. There also a vent fan for top.
We have been testing 24v ( Max 29.4v ) 7s2p bat. packs for a few years now for fridges, using 1865 & now 2170 LI and a 14 Bat. pack will run most fridges for 20+ hours, depends on draw, how full and # of times opened. Due to OHMs law the cabling can be 'thinner' and most fridges in Oz are 12v/24v so I know from experience that running them at 24V is much better than 12v :)
BTW - The packs weight a few KGs, I do not think I could lift a AGM or Lead Acid 24v bat. so I'm not suggesting you do that !!!
I might run a comparison in the future between running off of the car's native voltage (around 13.8v) and using a step up to around 27-28 volts in the future. Thanks for the idea.
Simply cutting the screens in the cover out with a Stanley knife should do the trick but still have the extra insulation so the heat can get out .
That'll work I think!
Thankyou, the test with the cover was very interesting
Glad you liked it!
Great scientific tests! I actually rebuilt my entire fridge slide carcass to get another 30mm clearance to fit the cover. Now I think that was in pointless after watching this 🤦🏽♂️. I like the protection the cover gives, maybe just cut the mesh out?!
I might end up doing just that after the hot weather testing!
Now that's a video that will get shared many times over. A great effort 👍.
Thanks!
Great vid mate,yeah would really like to know with high temperatures and with the sun on the fridge as most fridges sit in the back exposed with the window.
As soon as the warmer weather hits!
excellent presentation -- NO FLUFF!! Lots of useful info, well documented and explained. I suppose I could ask you how you feel about the Engel over other excellent fridges (Snomaster, National Luna) that are considered high line models. I understand that the Sawafuji compressor in the Engel has some interesting properties (and some people swear they're better than "regular" compressors (Danfoss and Secop included)) and MAY last longer but the downside seems to be not as efficient (more power hungry) compared to other compressors. For myself, I like the Engel design and construction a lot. You also seem to be a fan of them!
I am a fan, just not of the transit covers! I haven't used the other fridges you've mentioned unfortunately, so don't really have an opinion on them.
I have the Goal Zero Alta 80 and I’ve long suspected what you have seen with the cover and no cover. I definitely noticed that with the cover the area around the vents is just always warm and I feel like the covers really only gonna be useful if you are getting Direct light on the fridge like sunlight hitting the fridge directly. If your fridge is inside your vehicle the ambient temperature of the whole vehicle is just gonna slowly rise and rise in the heat of the sun and I feel like the cover at that point is doing nothing Except inhibiting airflow around the vents .
Another very interesting video. So now I'm wondering what would happen if the fridge bag was left ON and the vents were cut out ? Does the modest restriction of the vents really make that much difference ? Maybe it's because that the bag is a loose fit and the warmer ambient temperature air, is filling the void between the bag and the fridge, and it's warming the bag. Which might mean that the bag is working like a warmer blanket that retards the efficiency of the fridge ? I'm also wondering if some of the warmer air that the fridge is extracting, is leaking between the bag and the fridge ? (I better check that out). My Engle fridge came with the bag at no extra cost due to a sales promotion. So I'm lucky enough, not to have buyers regret. As the LED light stays on full time inside my Engle with the lid shut, I could see light escaping past the seal, which means the fridge is losing efficiency. I think it's a common Engle problem and something I'm going to fix today. I always thought the seals were too thin on these fridges, but apart from that, I'm happy with the Engel due to the low current drawing swing motor. 😁👍🏼
I've heard about putting wire in the seal but stumped on how to get seal off any ideas
I've not seen an issue with the seal, the fridge tested is about 6 or 7 years old and has worked flawlessly over the time.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing My 40L Engel has also worked without a problem for about 5 years now. Even better, my Aussie built 60L TrailBlaza fridge has worked without a problem for 28 years. 😁👍🏼 I might take a photo of the Engel sealing issue and email it to you. I have read that other people have noticed the same problem. Maybe it's only the 40L model that has this issue ? Have a nice day 😊
@@CamperKev My 40 litre fridge had the same issue as being able to see the light on around the seal so I adjusted the hinge and it now seals as it should.
@@GrumpysBeast Good on you Graham. Thanks for letting me know. 👍🏼😁
I was thinking about a few bits of wood underneath to allow for better air flow, cheers!
That might help!
Very interesting..... For the test between full and part full, maybe do a test over a couple of hours, opening the fridge every 15 minutes and see how it goes. On covers, why do they make most of them in black now? Surely that will absorb heat if the fridge is in the sun at all. My cover is silver on the inside and black/dark grey on the outside. It seemed silly to me, so I turned it inside out so the silver was on the outside. As far as I know, silver will reflect warmth, but it can't reflect coolth! How about cutting the mesh off the vents in the cover? Would that help? Keep up the good work!
If the fridge is out in the sun in the back of a wagon, I definelty wouldn't want a black fridge cover!
It might be interesting to see how much opening the fridge periodically affects performance and current usage. I did notice when I was testing the travel buddy, it would drop from 180 to about 170C in the time it took to open the door and pop in 4 pies. I'll pop that on the list for testing, thanks!
Good video. I agree that it would be interesting to see the same test (with/ without transit cover) conducted under higher ambient temperatures. FYI, I also bought the transit cover for a new 40L MT-V Engel fridge on the basis it would both protect my investment and improve it's efficiency.........Seems like we are all suckers to good marketing
Here you go mate! th-cam.com/video/_fhnGbGyZVg/w-d-xo.html
Just a point on the 'Full or Part-full' issue - the test doesn't take into account the frequent opening and closing of normal operation. A full fridge has a substantial heat-sink (or should I say coolness-sink) effect, so frequent opening will have a lesser effect than on a partially-filled one, thus keeping it full should be more efficient.
Agreed, though this test was to simulate an overnight usage, so would be less likely to be repetitively open and shut. Unless you were having a big night!
Looking at just the fridge mode for the fridge cover test, doens't the graph show that the compressor kicks in less with the cover on (3 times versus 7), which should mean that a cover is more efficient over a longer period of time. This makes sense - the cover increases insulation and therefore keeps the fridge cooler longer.
If you compare the gradient of the plot after the fridge turns off, that's how fast the fridge section is heating up (steeper is worse). They'll be two factors effecting the gradient. Firstly, the quality of the insulation and secondly the temperature differential between the fridge and freezer section.
It looks like the drop gradient of the fridge section after shut of isn't as steep on the plot of the fridge without cover to me, though there's not much in it at all. If it's the added insulation of the bag contributing to the performance of the fridge section, or the lack of insulation to the detriment of the fridges thermal performance that being artificially boosted by the temperature differential of the fridge to freezer, I'm not sure. Maybe a little of column A and a little of column B.
Glad my cover came for free with my fridge 😱
Unfortunatley, I paid full retail for mine!
Hmmm, interesting. I recently got a 32l engel and haven't gone for the cover.
It will be strapped down in the rear of a hilux dual cab, away from heat, dust and the like. I think it's a set up that doesn't require a transit bag.
Yep, sounds like you don't need one.
Your series of fridge temp tests is the most informative I have seen. I realize this is an old post but wonder if you could answer this, please? I use my fridge as a freezer and as you said to run it like that uses 30% more battery. At -5 deg it will keep functioning on a 200Ah battery and 300w solar panels. At -10 deg it will cut off (fridge low battery level setting 12.4v) about 8:30pm and restart around 7:00am but a slight defrost is noticed.
If I set the fridge to -15 deg during the day (the solar system handles this temp easily) and reset it at 7:00pm to -5 deg for the night it seems to stay frozen until the next morning.
What would you recommend as the best option for the fridge and food ????
1. Leave the setting at -5 deg
2 Set the morning temp to -15 deg for the day and reset the late afternoon temp at -5 deg for the night
3 Set the temp to -18 deg and just turn the fridge off for the night.
Cheers mate
All the best for the New Year
It's an interesting question.
The answer will depend on the availability of peak sun hours average everyday. And that'll be dependent on your location. Basically the further north you are, the more you'll be able to rely on the solar.
Another consideration will be if you run at only -5C all the time, you don't have much of a margin of error before the food could possibly be ruined (defrosted icecream?)
I personally would run it -15C during the day and turn it down at night.
By the cutout voltage (12.4v) I assume you're running some sort of lead acid battery?
When these eventually die, I would seriously consider replacing them with either a DIY or lithium drop in solution. You can reliably go to 80%+ depth of discharge with lithiums vs usually around 50% dod for lead acid. This should more than cover a constant -15C consistent setting.
While the initial outlay is more expensive, when you factor in the expected extra life and more useable capacity, their total cost over the length of ownership is considerably less than the equivalent capacity lead acid.
Thank you for your helpful reply. My batteries are 12month old AGM's. The old ones lasted 10 years so it may be a while before I can change. I will go with the -15 during the day and -5 at night.
Cheers mate
In regards to the fridge been empty or not, would be good to measure when opening and closing the fridge as a half empty fridge would allow more space for warm air to enter. Just a thought.
I did notice a drop of about 10 degrees with the Travel Buddy in the time it took me to open it, pop 4 frozen pies in on the racks and shut the door. So I'm assuming the opposite would be true for a fridge and the removal of already cold good would make it even worse.
I might have to try that as part of the hot weather testing. Cheers
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Going to be a good follow up video. Looking forward to it.
Wow what a result! Would be interested to see what something like a Waeco CFX series (plastics rather than steel) would test like? If you were nearby I'd lend you mine for a test! Very interesting that's for sure!
I would use my waeco, if the thing would run for long enough to complete the testing... (I think I bought a Friday fridge...)
@@LockyourHubs4WDing ohh no, buggered eh?
@@VideoShowMeHow a couple of times!
Great video and topic mate. Talking about covers, I remove my cover quite a while ago now as I thought my fridge wasn't that efficient. Not only the power consumption, but I could stick my hand between the cover and the fridge cabinet and it was quite hot, however the external temp of the bag was quite cool. I have a Waeco CFX 50 sitting in the back of my car which runs most of the time. After having a board failure, prior to bag removal, I replaced the controller with a an Ebay special and fitted a 125mm internal 12V fan, out of a Samsung Dryer. End of Problems. The Fridge is now over 20yrs old with a neatly mounted digital controller. I do like your Idea for the step up and throw that cover to the shit house lol and your fridge will be happy.
I think if the ventilation could be sorted, maybe an effective fan? We might actually see a benifet from the cover.
Would love to see the same test performed with a Danfoss compressor instead of the Fujisawa to determine if the compressor design has any affect on the results. Thanks for the content Cheers
I've only owned 1 fridge with a conventional compressor, that thing spent more time being repaired than keeping my drinks cold! I'm a Fujisawa devotee....
@@LockyourHubs4WDing If you don't mind me asking, what brand was your non Engel fridge? Cheers
Waeco.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Hate to say it but I suspected that. I ditched that brand and moved to National Luna close to 10 years ago, fridge has been on constantly ever since. Always tempted by Engel but their lack of product development (e.g. digital thermostat is only recent) and particularly. minimal insulation are the turn offs. Thanks fo the response. Cheers
Did you happen to test the power consumption of the actual step up voltage converter (as in total system draw)? Thanks great video 👍
No, though I have previously measured their efficiency, it was around 80%.
What i think the tests failed to capture was in the real world fridges get open and close multiple time per day... meaning a full fridge will have less air to escape when you open the lid as apposed to a partially full fridge which will have much more available air to escape. Also a full fridge has more thermal mass that will help the air in the fridge cool down faster (thermal equilibrium with the air inside the fridge and the fridge contents).
The test was meant to simulate a fridge running overnight. During the day, you'll probably be either running the car or have solar out.
Wow very surprised with the cover
Not as much as I was doing the testing!
I think the problem here may be the ambient temp being so low. The cover is working like a blanket to keep heat in at that low temp. Would this be the case still in the back of a 4x4 at 35-42C? If it is still the cae then the only reason to have a cover (and I have had once since I bought the fridge a decade and a hald ago or more) would be to protect the fridge exterior. BTW. As a creator you might want to know that I am subscribed with all notifications turned on and I am not getting notified of all your uploads by TH-cam... I came to this vid via the end screen in your latest release.
The TH-cam algorithm is fantastic like that..... If you check out my other videos, I did more hot weather testing (30C+) and the result was more of the same!
Another good video. Side note, it’s Hyst-er-esis not Hyst-erious, there is another ‘s’ in there. Keep up the great work Cobba 👌🏼
Close!
Was told a long time ago that the covers were good if your fridge was in direct sunlight. But if in an enclosed area to remove the cover.
That may well be the case still!
Thank you
You're welcome.
Not convinced yet. My fridge runs 24/7 between battery and solar with a pretty consistent temperature. Often gets 50+ in my car and now I am wondering whether the case protects the fridge from this. Looking forward to you testing in the hotter weather.
I'm about half way through. On a 33 degree day, it peaked at 54 degrees in the back of a white landcruiser! My Engel did not appreciate it :)
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Looking forward to it. Should we expect some sweaty wet t-shirt action on this one?
@@NasTimeAdventures You would certainly hope not! :)
First time watching your channel, love it. Superbly helpful review! Love the data driven approach, no nonsense just the stats. As you say I wonder with the fridge cover if there's a turning point where above a certain temp, when outside temps are higher (30-40ºC) the benefit of a bit of extra insulation in the bag outweighs the reduction of airflow... Will check out some of your other vids to see if you tested that :)
I did!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Cheers, I found it! Great analysis.
Would be interesting to run an infrared sensor over the fridge to find the hot spots with a view to removing the insulation or providing a small computer fan to improve ventilation.
I've got a FLIR camera, so as part of the "summer" testing I'll test it out. Thanks for the idea.
Thanks mate, good info. I wonder what these numbers would like on a less expensive fridge. I know Engel are efficient anyway, but some of the other brands, such as Fridgemate, ARB. Off to go take the cover off my ARB 60l. Cheers.
We'll have to check how it works in hot weather as well! So don't throw the cover out just yet!
I wonder if the ambient was higher would the tables turn with the cover on or off.
I'll be testing that in the very next heat wave down here in Melbourne.
I would also like to see the results of the cover on/off for insulation if the fridge was turned off. So how long would it stay cool with the cover on/off if the fridge was to turn off (real world: your battery dies and you are looking to keep the content cool for as long as possible)
I did test that in the other fridge cover video. The insulating cover does actually insulate better than no cover, it's just that the benefit of the insulation is more than counteracted by the heat kept in the compressor section.
Epic testing man
Cheers mate, glad you liked it!
It makes me wonder if the slots in the side of the fridge restrict the air flow as well? If they were opened up more it would allow better air flow.
I wouldn't have initally thought so, though then again I wouldn't have thought the mesh on the cover would have restricted air flow either.
Something I have always wondered, as I have a Waeco CF80 and my old one didn't have a cover. My new Waeco CF80 has a cover and I get overtemp cut off when in my car in QLD which I never used to with my old fridge. I thought it was the fridge, maybe not watching this...I think I might take the cover off and see what happens. Thanks for the info...
Is there a mesh covering the ventilation holes on the cover?
@@LockyourHubs4WDing yep, took the cover off the other weekend and going from turning on every 10mins to well over 30mins in some cases in the middle of the day. So thanks for the heads up on the cover. Who would have thought....
@@heftymerv The results surprised the heck out of me, I thought "This couldn't be right, I must of stuffed something up" when I got the same results after the third crack though....
Very interested in seeing this tested in high temperatures.
I'll have to wait for a heat wave!
I always assumed the cover made a difference where you couldn't get the fridge in the shade. When boating wy icebox gets smoking hot in the sun, now after buying a portable fridge I'm building a DIY cover for it so the cover can soak up the sun and not directly heat up the top of the fridge. Won't be using mesh in front of the ventilation holes tho ;)
Not for the Engel!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing But you did the test in the shade right? I believe the situation will be different in direct sunlight during the day ( I understand that this specific scenario does not apply to everyone)
Will keep the compressor part of the fridge uninsulated after watching your video for sure, hoping it will help the compressor run cooler.
Thank you for the extremely detailed video, as a tinkerer and an engineer this truly is great content
(found your channel today so this was my first video)
@@hampuslytz5393 there's another video on the channel looking at hot weather (well for Victoria anyway!) where the fridge had full sun, from east to west
@@LockyourHubs4WDing I stand corrected! Damn that just does not make senese, but the numbers sure proves it, so frustrating 😂
Yeah man we come nowhere near as warm where I live, wish we had those summer temps in Finland 😁.
Will change plans and not insulate the part where compressor lives at all, to help mitigate the problems mentione in yor video, but if I can find stabile enogh weather I will probably need to do some testing myself at some point. I already have the materials so might as well use them to try it out, happy I didn't spend money buying one at least 😅
Best regards from Finland!
What about cut out the mesh over the vents and test cover in higher temp.
Still got a couple of tests I would like to do before taking the knife to the cover!
Can u please test the cover during the heat of the day with fridge inside a 4wd ?
In the very next heat wave!
A fridge cover will only help when it is really hot (above 25 ambient) as the losses in a fridge are proportional to the square of the temperature difference between the inside and outside temperature
The temperature differential will definetly play a part, though when there is a higher temperature difference, the compressor will have to cycle more to maintain the fridges temperature, and even at low ambients the cover is stopping the compressor's heat dissapation enough that it's not allowing it to cycle in the freezer section.
The only upside to the cover I could potentially see is if your fridge is in direct sunlight. The canvas may stop direct uv heating?
It does have some insulating properties, though the benifet of the insulation isn't enough to counter the issue caused by the mesh blocking the ventilation to the compressor section.
Love your myth buster style of testing. Wonder if the waeco fridges and other brands would be the same ??
I'm not sure, though I haven't had much luck with my personal waeco, the bloody thing is broken down more than it works! I must have bought a Friday fridge....
@@LockyourHubs4WDing I've got the cf 80 and it has played up on me once.
Bugger, I know people who have had a really good run with them, just not me, or you!
Hi Simon, another terrific vid from you, I am glad I subscribed! The data doesn't lie. If you look at the mesh, well it covers 50% of the ventilation doesn't it? I mean if each strand is 1mm, and there are 100 strands, I guess 100mm is being blocked (actual numbers may vary). I guess you could cut the mesh away and just leave the hole, would that help? Cheers mate.
I'm doing some hot weather testing (taking a while because 30degree plus days in Vic take a while to come around!) Once I finish that up, I might have to sacrifice the mesh to see if we can get the best of both worlds.
Yes please, can you do a test in higher ambient temperatures. You could use a heater in a room. I’m sick of using my protector, gets in the way when accessing the fridge. I always thought that it was ok to put up with it for better fridge/freezer efficiency. Now it makes sense when I set the temp to -13C and the ice cream doesn’t go rock hard..... I know first world problems 🤣🤣🤣
Ice cream is important! I'm doing the third of the 4 tests tomorrow, down here is Victoria, days over 30 degrees can be few and far between....
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Sweet! looking forward to your detailed review :)
@@LockyourHubs4WDing sweet I can’t wait for the info!
The testing is now finished, so I'll be dropping the video soon. The results really surprised me!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing oooh 😲
I would love to see a hot weather test, how close are you? 😉
ALSO I would love to know the internal cabin temperature difference between your white cruiser and a black one?
Most of the hot weather testing in now done and it's going to be 34 degrees C on Thursday, so I'll get another test knocked over. Won't be long now!
I've always said covers are to only protect your fridge from scratches so forth, but I have two engel fridges combi 57 with cover and MT45 without a cover and I've found real dusty condition it gets in between the fridge and the cover and scratches ya fridge? As the MT45 has nearly no scratches but yet combi is covered in fine scratches
Dust makes a great grinding paste!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing it does indeed mate! My combi looks sandblasteted on one side!
Did you end up removing the net from a fridge bag and comparing that? Of having the bag in place but cutting out the net works then I’ll do that.
Not yet, I want to try fans first.
Was the water in the fridge and freezer put in at ambient and made to cool down with the fridge or was it already chilled?
And for the fridge full and empty tests again, did the fridge have to cool the contents from ambient or did you test it once already at temp?
I think you’d find a full fridge already with everything cold will use less power to keep it all cold than an empty one. Just removing 10 litres would make little difference. It’s proven that if you have a large thermal mass (fridge full) the unit won’t have to work as hard to remain cold as if it was empty.
Also you need to test with the fan and without but both with the cover off as it could just be the fan improving it either way.
3% extra use might not be a lot over 12hours but over a month it’s heaps of Ah.
What temp settings were your fridge and freezer set to?
You say the freezer wasn’t turning back on again - I’m sure it was. That was a temp graph not a current draw or load graph. It likely cycles on/off in very short bursts to maintain the set temp. If it didn’t turn back on then the unit would keep warming up and this is not being observed.
Please note the word is hysteresis not hysterious.
The problem with fridge covers is they keep heat in as well as keep heat out. They work best when the fridge is in sunlight as they reduce it heating up. If the fridge isn’t in the sun, they will trap heat and the fridge is probably better off without the cover.
There's comments about the cover on a hot day, I would think the direct sun light on the fridge body itself would be the problem.
It could be, though knowing that the fridge can't dissapate the heat generated in the compressor section in the dark at 12C, is the extra insulation going to help at high ambients when even more heat will be generated in the compressor section and they'll be less of a temperature differential between the ambient and the air inside the compressor section? Not sure, though will find out this summer!
Switching to Lithium battery is better than step up transformer. Constant voltage, higher drawdown capacity, 100AH = 80AH usable. AGM 100AH = 50 AH usable, assuming there is a good DC-DC charger in use that can actually charge the AGM to 100%
While lithium batteries have their advantages including maintaining a higher voltage over the discharge and will allow a deeper discharge than an AGM, you still don't get charging voltage (just over 14V) like you do with a step-up.
The covers protect the frigde
They can do, though so could a cage without the negative aspects.
great testing again mate, thanks for your efforts 👍🍻
Glad you enjoyed it mate, I wouldn't have guessed the outcome at the start!
So a thought, two fans, or more, the fans fitted on vent. Bottom fan, blowing in. Top fan blowing out. You could put one on each side. The fans run about 35mA. Not much, with a temp controller there will run when set right, on a hot day more, on a cold day maybe not at all. Next. The cheap insulation. Put on three sides and top. Maybe Styrofoam or foam. Also if fitted in a canopy of a tourer, the canopy could have insulation. Or canopy with dust free venting where the fridge is fitted. Most people want fridge sides, but what's better is venting first. The heat needs to dissipate, any one will sell anything if people buy it. Maybe a canopy that positive vents. Helps fridge and stops dust.
They all sound like decent ideas, increase the airflow, increased insulation and control the external environment. I think I'll look at the airflow first.
Apart from some insulation value, most people spend a lot of money on their portable fridge. Unless you spend your money on something very cheap from China.
The cover will protect your investment from scratches, and things bouncing around in the back of our 4x4, a cover is worth its weight in gold.
I guess it depends, if it's on a slide with a cage, there's probably less need for the protection.
Though if it's in the back of a tradie ute, definitely.
@Lock your Hubs 4WDing I agree, my myCoolman was on a drop slide for a while, the drop slides are not designed for space for covers.
Its a bit battered from not having a cover. In my latest set-up its protected very well, but the damage done. In this set-up I still have no insulation on a hot day. Steel fridges are a lovely conductor lol
@@DirtRoad4x4 they are!
What if temp gauge doesn’t always display? Tried a new battery and no better
If you've tried a new battery and the connections are clean, the unit may be faulty.
Definitely interesting results and I wonder if this is across the different brands of fridges like Dometic/Waeco etc...
With the cover supposedly to reduce the amount of heat gain under direct sun exposure, I wonder what your results would be if you repeated the same test under direct sunlight and warmish conditions? Would the heat build up be less, therefore requiring less heat dissipation and the fridge/freezer models then being more efficient than those without a cover?
I'll definetly be having a look at that come the warm weather.
How about a myth buster video on that fuel doctor stuff??
Thanks for sharing mate. Very interesting.
Cheers, glad you enjoyed it!
At 12 degrees this might be true but the cover maintains the temperature when you are at 35+ degrees in the day up north.
Come Summer I might do the test again when we have a heat wave! I'm from Victoria.
Is this with the fridge under cover from sunlight such as in a vehicle ?
I think it'll be a good idea to try both, in the back of a 4wd and out in the open, like in the back of a ute exposed to direct sunlight.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Definitely chief, hopefully get a reply from Rob Higgins
You have missed many important factors. Covers are a performance advantage for certain casing materials in sunlight/high heat situations. Steel (engel) and plastic fridges (waeco etc) suffer from significant heat absorption in sunlight/ high heat situations which can be reduced by covers. The covers mask the design flaw essentially for incorrect casing material for the Aussie climate. Fibreglass and aluminium cased fridges don't need or even sell covers for performance advantage.... they don't need them. I am however going to investigate a small solar fan to improve the airflow around the compressor of my fibreglass Evacool 😁
We're half way through the hot weather testing, you might be surprised by the results!
On a 33 degree day, we saw a max temp of 54 degrees in the back of my white 80 series!
Yeah but how much battery would you use if you gave the fridge more rime to reach minimum temp without the step up?
Hmmmm ... I'm not sure. I know with the Travel Buddy and the step up, you chewed more current for a smaller amount of time during the preheat and then less time cooking saved substantial battery capacity, though would have to actually test to verify with the fridge.
Keep the fridge full to stop the drinks and food bouncing around :) Does the cover block the air flow around the motor? Cover good for when the fridge is sitting in the sun
I'll be testing whether it works better in the sun in the back of the 4WD as soon as summer arrives!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing I think it will help protect the fridge from heat from the sun, but I would be tempted to cut out the mesh over the vents.
Maybe the cover for being say on a back of a ute tray sitting in the sunlights
Yep, as part of the hot weather testing, I'll be doing some "back of ute testing".