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Ice Packs vs Ice vs Techni Ice, what should be in your Esky or Cooler?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ส.ค. 2024
- In this episode of Lock your Hubs 4WDing we pit the old faithful, bag ice vs ice packs and the new kid on the block Techni Ice. What should be at the bottom of your cooler esky?
May the coldest beverage win!
Please note, Techni Ice were in no way involved in this video, I purchased the Techni Ice at full retail price. The results are what they are :)
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What's your best tip for keeping the drinks icey cold in the cooler?
Drink quickly
Salt water.leave it in the bag
stop in to bottlos more often
pre-chill your cooler
pre chill the cooler and put the ice ON TOP of the drinks
You’re the first person I’ve seen break it down to an objective scientific process, and compare them by equal volume in an equal environment. One thing to note, is you’re spot on about the latent heat energy. But it’s also interesting to see them all finish at the same point. That’s even more proof that you did the experiment correctly. It’s like the various slope experiment. You have 5 balls at the top of 5 differently arced slopes. They all start at the same elevation and end at the same elevation. There’s no wind or rolling resistance. They’ll all finish at the same time. But the steep slope will dump its potential earlier than the even slope. Phase change does require more energy than normal. And having a substance with a lower freezing point will absorb more energy early on. But ultimately, as long as they all have the same mass, they all have the same potential. So it is significantly better for items that need to stay frozen, because it wants to absorb the most heat below the freeze point of water. But when it comes to keeping drinks cool, they’re all basically the same. I would still recommend a thin layer of ice with any ice pack, simply to fill in the gaps with more thermal mass.
The various slope experiment is a great analogy, thanks!
By definition, they will all end at room temp.
Eventually yes, it's what happens in the interim is what's important!
You're like an Australian Adam Savage
That, I've never heard! Lol
I'm only a minute in, and it seems this fellow is confused about the physics. Any object or product placed in your freezer is going to reach exactly the same temperature, regardless of what it's made of. The temperature is determined by your freezer. So no product is going to be 'colder' when it first comes out of the freezer. If you are reading a different temperature with a thermal imaging camera, immediately after removing it from the freezer. it's due to differences in the emissivity affecting the readings.
What IS different with some products, is the melting / freezing point. Some products have a lower freezing / melting point (i.e. cooler shock has a freezing point of 18°F), than water which is 32°F. This means that those products will remain colder until they melt, compared to water ice. This is key for two reasons: 1- the phase change from a solid to a liquid (melting) absorbs a ton of energy, so most of the cooling capacity of ice or any ice pack happens when it melts. Water ice may start out close to 0°F (depending on the freezer), but it will quickly reach 32°F, and stay there until completely melted;
2- the ambient temperature inside a cooler will always be higher than the temperature of the ice or ice packs, since heat is constantly entering through the sides of the cooler.
Therefore it's very useful to have a cold pack that will freeze lower than 32°F, because that is the only way to maintain an ambient temperature below or even close to 32°F. It is simply not possible with plain water ice. So if you want to keep things frozen or very cold, that is useful. If you only need to keep beverages cold, it's not helpful, and you're better off with plain water ice.
Note: Most 'ice packs' are just water and blue dye, and sometimes a gelling agent, they don't have a freezing point much lower than plain water. As far as I know, none of the products mentioned have a lower freezing / melting point than water
So get Cooler Shock. Noted.
A very good vid...well constructed and quite informative..
Note: I am not employed nor have any commercial affiliation with technical ice nor its subsidiaries, owners or employees what so ever.
I have been using Techni Ice for about 10 years...and can not speak highly enough of its credentials...best for keeping stuff cold and hot..because you can use the techni ice sheets as a heat pack.
When they have finished expanding..stick it in boiling water...within 10 minutes..your instant heat pack!
I have used the technique ice sheets in a lot of first medical emergencies when I was a volunteer first aid emergency responder..we used the technical ice expanded sheets for muscle sprains, insect bites both land and sea..ie blue bottle, stingray ( re see heat pack) lacerations, limb fractures / breakages/ dislocations( soak the sheets in water...wait until they expand..perfect for a good stable and comfortable splint..padding when wrapped around the injury)..
I always keep some sheets in my fridge freezer at home and in the cupboard.
The best bit...
Techni ice are Perfect for 4wding/camping...
Pre freeze 4 pre expanded sheets in the house fridge, then put them in the 12v camping fridge when you are ready for camping.you layer the sheets between the food/drinks etc as they keep the fridge cooler for longer and lessen the fridge cycling hence the lower the power consumption (now there is a vid for you to make)..plus again..perfect for first aid when you are outdoors.
Also...environmentally friendly.. designed and manufactured in Australia.
I really like that they're an Aussie innovation (The polymer was developed by a CSIRO scientist I understand) and the data shows that they work better than the other options out there. I didn't know you could heat them in boiling water (the instructions mention a microwave) I wasn't sure what temperature the sheets would tolerate.
I did see that some companies were using the sheets in conjunction with conventional freezers to obtain lower temperatures and reduce power usage. Thanks for the suggestion, I might test that in the Engel for an upcoming video. The Engel Combi fridges are great, but power hungry.
I honestly never thought about their use in first aid, that's a great suggestion. I was thinking of popping a couple of sheets in the bottom of the Engel to keep drinks etc cold when we go on walks to waterfalls ect when were 4WDing, but having a some sheets to stop inflammation of a sprained ankle etc, would be great, cheers!
Interesting test, useful to know the results. I think it's worth including the total consumed space in the data, the techni ice takes up a lot more, you could probably fit another ice pack in the same space.
It's a hard call to make, the techni ice will be better with some shapes than others, while anything brick like you'll probably get more in with ice packs because of their shape.
Hardly a new idea or new kids. They've been around since the 80s! Superb product and their range of coolers is ace. Great video.
Thanks!
Thank you for running such a useful experiment! Much better than many (most!) of the others out there on TH-cam. Also glad you mentioned specific heat and the latent heat of fusion! lots of energy involved in that phase change. Left me wondering though, does that polymer increase the water's specific heat, or the latent heat of fusion, or bit of both? (and to what degree) Nice video and answered my question perfectly. Thanks!
This scientific and well conducted video earned you a sub!
Thanks!
They continue to absorb any moisture and odors released inside an eski and eventually split, oozing slimy smelly gunk, which necessitates throwing them out. To solve this, I recommend putting them in disposable shopping bags and sealing the bag with a knot.
None of mine have split yet, but a great tip for when they do, thanks!
Interesting experiment however temperatures are only a part of the whole experience
For years now I 3/4 fill plastic milk containers with fresh water and freeze them down to keep my ice boxes cool when fishing
They are cheap and readily available
They don’t leave a pool of water behind
Easy to swap out of the freezer
If you’re short of water you can drink the contents
Take up less volume than other options
The fish are always icy cold at the filleting table
You can discard them at the end of your trip to save packing space
Orange juice containers are better as the plastic is thicker and less prone to puncture
The milk containers will last longer than party ice because of the reduced surface area. Though you're still stuck with the thermal properties of water/ice.
If you were to use the polymer from the Techni Ice in a larger container, like a milk container, you would get the addtional benifet of the reduced temperature and the slower release because there is less surface area. So you could have less milk containers in the esky to keep the fish cold.
Though you would loose the ability to drink it and the cost of course would be more more.
I use frozen 2 litre bottles to prechill eskies the night before I'm going to use them. Works great.
Great informative video. Nicely done 👍
Thanks!
Epic effort well done may God reward your good efforts with rectifying your affairs.
Thanks!
Fascinating, I enjoyed that vid. 👍👍
Glad you enjoyed it
Great comparison. Never heard of techni-ice.
It's great stuff!
cool.. bought the techni ice cooler 20 years ago.. still going strong and unbreakable.. can’t find the original ice packs anywhere and ice costs a fortune.. so where do I get them.. excellent video.. cheers from victoria
I bought mine directly from technice
Hi Simon, loved the vid and agree that Techni-Ice is the way to go, but small point of contention which probs wouldn't have made much of a diff. You kept referring to the cubed ice as block ice - which it was not. To answer your question about keeping the 'cooler' cooler: I have an Evakool icebox which is supremely insulated, now this is also something that has caused discussion around the campfire 'should you drain the water from cubed ice?'
Now my answer is simple, as water of any temperature is warmer than ice, the answer is yes! as thermodynamics? causes the two differing temps to try to equalize and it always moves towards the warmer end of the scale.
What I have done is fill 3 x 3Litre milk containers with fresh water, then freeze them into blocks. I put one on all three layers in my Evakool with the food, and separated by a sheet of corrugated plastic. The bottom brick was still frozen in the middle on the 13th night and was chipped to add to the bourbon! Thanks mate, great video again, cheers.
Usually I'm lucky to get out a coherent sentence once every hour :)
Now onto the topic of draining the ice water from the esky. If you don't have to worry about the food getting wet, the answer is to leave the water in, and it's not because of equilibrium. I should do a video!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Yes mate, you should do a video - we love seeing you work hard lol!!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing ive always left the water in the esky as my understanding is that the air that replaces the drained water is warmer than the water, thus a greater temperature difference which will melt the ice even sooner.
@@Wdeane1957 We'll all know next Sunday. I'm data logging 2 eskys at the moment, one contantly draining the melted ice and the other retaining the water. So we'll be able to finally settle it once and for all!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Yes you are right - leave the water in and that is because the water replaces AIR! - air is your enemy in this case and it is better to fill as much space as you can with cold water then having that same amount of area filled with warmer air. The air is ALWAYS going to be warmer then the water in this case.
Here's an idea for an experiment -- open an ice brick and loose the gel, then replace it with the stuff from some techni ice sheets " a techni ice brick " and see how it performs
I was thinking a 2L bottle, just like I use to prechill the esky. I might give it a go.
_“Looks like castor sugar”_
Yeah nah, that’s totally what I was thinking too... 💳😅
Don't think it would taste the same though!
Most interesting evidence based demo-Thank you- The Techni-ice does not leave any residual water following cooling - unlike ice cubes?
It's an advantage and also maybe a disadvantage, depending on your use case. There may be some frost that forms on the techni-ice that eventually melts and causes a little moisture, but that's it.
You could've been a great Greek scholar with your volume trick. :)
I'm not so sure about the cooling results however or using the measure of how cold the things got after 48 hours in the deep fridge. Firstly you can take any material down to an arbitrary cold temperature - all the way to 0oK given a sufficiently cold container and enough time to suck the heat out.
Next, the resulting temperature of the material after being in the deep freezer for 48 hours is a mix of two phenomenon - its thermal capacity and thermal resistance to removing heat (insulation). The ice was at the highest temperature after 48 hours in the fridge. This is to be expected as water has one of the highest thermal capacities compared to other liquids, and ice is quite a good insulator (why you need to defrost a fridge) so to be fair, the three materials should have stayed in the deep fridge until they reached the same temperature, then do the test.
I think under those circumstance, ice would have out performed either of the other two materials by a country mile.
You're right, eventually even ice would get down to whatever temperature the freezer is at, around -20 in the case of mine. Though I thought it more important to start the testing exposing all three to the same conditions for the same period of time. Not wait for, and artificially advantage the ice but playing the waiting game until all three had eventually reached the same temperature.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Yeah, I see, you want to replicate what people will use and do at home, so you can't raise the temperature or, as you point out increase the time.
Great video, thank you!
Thanks mate!
A really great video thanks 👍
Cheers!
I save goon bags and 3/4 fill them and freeze them for a week. Solid ice block lasts a week in my big red. Fill the rest of the space with bag ice, usually 2
I used to use the same trick, but with 2L soft drink bottles. Now I'm thinking about trying the same thing, but this time filled with Techni Ice polymer. You should need less of them in the esky, leaving more room for the important stuff!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing not a bad idea but I’ve had a few bags split from off-roading and sharp ice edges. Not so much a supply problem but the techni ice pellets going everywhere is probably not good.
Actually having a look, they are pretty much just water storage crystals and rubbing alcohol. You could probably do non-food grade experiments with that (from eBay / Bunnings) for a lot cheaper before cutting up heaps of techni ice sheets.
Related: reefs.com/2015/06/26/making-ice-packs-cool-easy/
craftyourhappiness.com/2014/07/24/diy-cold-packs-tutorial-pretty-easy/
Goon bags?
They're plastic bladders usually used for cask wine or water.
Do yourself a favour and get a Techni ice box, they are awesome!
Thanks for the in depth video 👍👍
Glad you liked it, I might have to check out their eskys one day too!
The issue I see with the techni ice is you can’t put much in the esky. It’s like you need a combination of ice cubes and the techni ice.
If you do, make sure the ice isn't touching the Techni Ice, otherwise the warmer ice will suck the cold right out of the Techni Ice.
Don't use them in combination or the Techniice sheets will continue to hydrate and split the cells.
@@erroneouscode Have you personally had this happen? I hadn't thought of that.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Yes. I've long moved on from Techniice eskys and those sheets to 12v fridges, but I remember well all the downsides to them having used several sets of them over a few years. Best keep them sealed somehow in a bag because they will take on more fluid and split open. When not in use keep them in same sealed bag in domestic freezer (added bonus will help keep freezer colder longer in power outage). Don't tuck them away in a cupboard or such because they become slimy and smelly and not something you would want anywhere near your food.
Thx i was looking for this
You're welcome!
Is this ice can use for cocktails
Yes!
I have about 20 sheets that came with the 2 eskies I bought. They do a good job but do get slimy once they unfreeze. Not a big deal just a mention.
I'm thinking about putting the polymer in brick shaped contaners and freezing them to get around the issue.
Yeah, nothing is worse than grabbing a slimy water bottle (beer can) and having it slip out of your hands
@@MW-fr7bx could it be a good lube though - you know when you are out in the bush and an unexpected situation arises - lube on hand right there.
My problem is the techni ice is not really reusable. Once they melt the polymer on the inside does leak out creating a slime on the outside of the bag and I don't want that all over my drinks and food. I wish there was a better way.
I did notice a little slime on the surface when just about fully defrosted as well, I just washed it off and shoved it beck in the freezer, though no good if it's getting on your drinks.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing it's actually hard to find a good ice pack that actually does what it says. The cooler shock reuseable ice packs are good but way too expensive for what it is. They used to be only $20 but then the raised the price by $10 once they started getting good reviews on Amazon. They also then stopped restocking the smaller sizes that were cheaper and now can only get the big size. They just seem very money hungry so I refuse to buy them.
Thank you sir
You're welcome!
Better get myself some Techni-Ice.
It's great stuff so far! I just popped some in the esky for work today!
Hi, I own a business where I ship out frozen patties! Customers typically receive their package in 2 days, however I have some customers who say their package arrive fine and some that says the ice pack wasn't could and the product wasn't cold, any tips?
The main factors would be the starting temperature, the quality of the insulated container you're shipping in. The ambient temperature and finally the duration between you shipping and the client recieving it.
Probably the quality of the insulation of the container, and the duration of shipping would be the first two things to look at.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing thank you very much!
Also, consider how long the package sat before the customer came home and removed it from their hot porch :-)
Definitely a factor!
You should've used a weight measurement and that way you would discount the influence of the packaging of your volume measurement which would've been far more accurate. In other words, weigh the package before water was introduced and then weigh it after would give you the total volume of water.
Great stuff... my question now is .... do we keep the Techni ice sheets permanently in the freezer or only put them in prior to needed use? My ice bricks live permanently in my freezer.
My live in the freezer along with the ice bricks.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Great thanks for the prompt reply. Now to buy some Techni ice packs from eBay.
would you be able to do something similar to this but no tint vs tinted windows?
I was actually thinking about something similar the other day, I thought that dark tint would heat the interior of the car, just like a darker car has a hotter surface in the sun than a lighter coloured car. And then thought from a practical standpoint, tint should probably be whitish not black. (Though might look a bit strange....)
Hi there, I know it's been about a few months since this video, but have you heard of Responsible Ice? 10 pound Ice packs that use plain water instead of chemicals? Great website too!
No, I'll have a look though, thanks.
mate why do you call the cubes "block ice" in this video but "party ice" in the other, where "block ice" is the large solid blocks? bloody confusing...
Bugger, did I? Sorry mate.
Actually, ice blocks wins because if item was at bottom they would be in slurry as soon they formed so it would have the "dip" on chart much longer around middle part absolutely clapping techno ice bullshit and ice packs. Redo test with thermocouple at bottom prove me other wise.
-much smarter individual
Cold air falls, therefore the preference is for the cold medium to be above. Though tell you what, do the same test, and only change the variable of the location of the cooling medium and I'll link to your video in the description.
When he say negative it sounds like he about to say the N-word lol
Noooooo!!!!!! Lol
You cheated :) You should have put the cola cans under the cooler packs. You put techniice packs all around the cola. No wonder it was cooler. It was an unfair test. Also when packing a cooler you should not put the cooling packs to the bottom, so it was not even a realistic test. Also you should have measured both weight and volume of the solutions to make sure similar amounts were used.
The weight wasn't an issue, but the volume is. I probably could have done a better job packing the techni-ice packs on the bottom. I understand techni-ice recommend putting their sheets above the food, though to be consistant between the tests and the fact that I couldn't lay a sheet of normal ice above the drink, they all went to the bottom.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Thank you for responding so quickly. I think the mass has an importance in calculating the specific heat capacity. Although, you are right. For cooler applications the volume is the important factor.
If you put the drink cans first, then ice on top of it. Yes ice would fall around them but I think it can't go under. :) Best way would be putting ice with the zip bag on top of the cans. But also test under the cans, plus putting the cans first then pouring ice on top of them for comparison.
Your own graph proves it. When thermometer falls into the ice/water then temperature is much lower. It looks like ice blocks could have beaten all if they were on top of the cans. It would not be surprising as water has very high specific heat capacity.
I did not know that techniice suggests putting cooler packs on top of the food. But that is just logical for all coolers because cold flows downwards. So any product would have hard time cooling something above itself.
That was a "cool" video
Haha!