Another very good video - do you chaps have a new camera, the imaging seems a little bit sharper than previously? One important point, that seemed to be missed, is that to work best there needs to be some air movement to carry the oil to the scavenge pumps. Without that the scavenging will rely on the oil actually condensing out and gathering as a liquid in the bottom of the sump before actually flowing as a liquid to the pump - worse, there will be no air movement to carry the oil droplets through the return line and it will need to fill before any oil is returned to the reservoir tank. That 'vacuum' scavenging would rely on a "G" feed - whether entirely from gravity or with the assistance of lateral forces, and as it's normal for the pump inlet to be a bit above the actual sump floor, that means liquide sloshing around in the sump. Pumps can draw quite a lot of air through them and that would carry the oil mist and also help move any liquid towards the sump outlets. It may help if you think of a vacuum cleaner works, it moves a lot of air and that air movement is what actually draws in the dirt - this can really be made clear if you turn it off, hold the nozzle in a pile of dust (or dirt, LEGO blocks, or whatever) holding it hard against the floor to block it off, then turn the vacuum on, then off, then check to see how much has been sucked up - there will be none. Replace it in the dust pile and, again, hold it hard down while turning on the vacuum and then lift it a little - the air movement will draw in the dust allowing the vacuum to operate. From that, it should be evident that there is going to be a need to allow the scavenge pumps to draw some air into the engine for them to operate correctly, which has to be balanced against the torque/power benefits of low crankcase pressure - IIRC, around 0.3 to 0.5 bar of vacuum is generally the ball park. Don't forget to filter that air, too, and while some may have a simple breather for their vehicle, there are also devices that can be set to hold a specific vacuum level, adjusting the amount of air let in as required. With "V" engines, especially 90 degree, it's not uncommon to have a scavenge from the head that's usually to the outside, or both, because lateral loads over ~1 G can cause oil to stack up in the head. I would assume a similar situation occurs with flat engines, like Subarus, and a scavenge from each head may be very beneficial? With the oil tank, that kinda illustrated why one should always spend a little extra and get a tank that can be taken apart for cleaning, unless one has a filter between the scavenge pump and tank, there will be fine engine debris collecting in it that should be regularly cleaned out and checked - it is also a very good idea to take it apart when it's received and given a good clean and check over as, with most pressure stages, any rubbish left in it will pass through the pressure stage before the filtration.
We're using a Sony for the Vlog material instead of the usual Go-Pros in an attempt to improve the quality along with some mics at times. Good spotting and good point as always mate. Hope you're doing well up North, the nervous nail-biting is well into swing in the workshop here with a week to go before we have to load her on the trailer - Taz.
High Performance Academy yep and different springs have different pressure ranges. People need to choose one that suits their desired pressure (preferably one where the desire pressure sits around the middle of the pressure range on the spring if possible).
Looks like its finnished, but to cut down on airreated oil it's worth considering 2x -16 return pipes to the tank via an oil cooler on each. The slower rate of flow (but still the same volume) is quite effective
Great info so far! Would you make a follow-up video which details how you position, fill, and plumb the reservoir to prevent introducing air into the system?
You can't avoid introducing air into the system as the scavenge stages pull both air (blow by gasses) and oil from the sump. The key part is separating the oil and air from each other - Andre
@@hpa101 Thanks Andre! It sounds like the scavenging at the sump helps remove the majority of air. From there, an air oil separator plumbed in to the valve cover/oil reservoir combined with the reservoir having a swirl pot design should help limit any further air. Am I on the right track?
Good morning HPA team! Hope you're all having a wonderful day down there. Bring on the new and improved 86, the circuit car that currently costs more per mile to drive than DOCILE! (I'm never letting you get away from that comment Andre bro. 😂🤣👍) #Day147OfContinuousPeerPressureOnAndre
Can you or should you seal off the valve covers from any other style of PCV? Also what is typically done with the stock oil pick up tube and gear/pump? You just simply remove the internal pump gear and pick up tube? If so does any of it need to be blocked off?
You can block off the normal breathers but typically you'd want to run a vacuum regulator to prevent excessive vacuum in the crank case. This works well for N/A engines but turbo engines tend to still generate positive crank case pressure (depending on boost levels) so a breather in this case is still beneficial. The dip stick tube can be blanked or used as a pressure sensor port and the stock oil pump gears are simply removed - Andre
With a dry sump would you run a thinner oil than normal to also help with response etc as pressure v heat is not as much of an issue or still keep the same oil as that’s why the motor needs
There's a good video on it here where David from Mountune talks about the wet sump setup for the BTCC FA20 powered cars they were involved with. Basically if the rules didn't dictate a wet sump, it would have been cheaper and easier to run a dry sump setup, but he'll fill you in: th-cam.com/video/csDa_Di8r44/w-d-xo.html - Taz.
High Performance Academy awesome video thank you for that! I’m going to be looking into a dry sump and that syringe of oil for protection on the track corners!
Not as practical as a wet sump given the requirement for a reservoir and increased oil capacity, but what people are willing to put up with in a road car and what they aren't really comes down to personal choices and budget/s. With the 1UZ-FE this car was road legal and had a dry sump when we got it for example. It also had no passenger seat either though - Taz.
@@RHBTurbochargers Oh, thanks for the idea! I have a Weiss pump, it has a fuel pump drive. Probably the easiest way to attach a trigger disk to it. But such a sensor needs 3 wires, and the M48 has inputs only for engine control. You can somehow implement cutting the ignition from the emergency lamp oil pressure? The M48 Moteс has inputs from switches.
It's been a long time since I've dealt with the M48 and it was a lot more primitive than the x00 series and the M1 series. In the later ECUs you can simply set up a protection strategy based on oil pressure but I can't recall if that is possible on the M48 sorry - Andre
What is your opinion what it comes to turbo oil return line: should I connect it straight to a scanvenge stage Via T or tap own -10 to the scanvenge sump?
Personally I prefer to return the oil from the turbo into the sump and scavenged from there rather than dedicate a complete scavenge stage to it. If the plumbing is too hard to get the oil return into the sump then I'd be inclined to tee it into a scavenge line - Andre
![Dry Sumps, Wet Sumps AND Accusumps Explained | MounTune [TECH TALK]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/csDa_Di8r44/mqdefault.jpg)
![Engine Power GAINS With MORE Reliability? How! [TECH TALK]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/L84P5ChzRYY/mqdefault.jpg)
That reservoir is significantly more complex than i imagined. Thanks for the inside shots of that.
Another very good video - do you chaps have a new camera, the imaging seems a little bit sharper than previously?
One important point, that seemed to be missed, is that to work best there needs to be some air movement to carry the oil to the scavenge pumps. Without that the scavenging will rely on the oil actually condensing out and gathering as a liquid in the bottom of the sump before actually flowing as a liquid to the pump - worse, there will be no air movement to carry the oil droplets through the return line and it will need to fill before any oil is returned to the reservoir tank. That 'vacuum' scavenging would rely on a "G" feed - whether entirely from gravity or with the assistance of lateral forces, and as it's normal for the pump inlet to be a bit above the actual sump floor, that means liquide sloshing around in the sump. Pumps can draw quite a lot of air through them and that would carry the oil mist and also help move any liquid towards the sump outlets.
It may help if you think of a vacuum cleaner works, it moves a lot of air and that air movement is what actually draws in the dirt - this can really be made clear if you turn it off, hold the nozzle in a pile of dust (or dirt, LEGO blocks, or whatever) holding it hard against the floor to block it off, then turn the vacuum on, then off, then check to see how much has been sucked up - there will be none. Replace it in the dust pile and, again, hold it hard down while turning on the vacuum and then lift it a little - the air movement will draw in the dust allowing the vacuum to operate.
From that, it should be evident that there is going to be a need to allow the scavenge pumps to draw some air into the engine for them to operate correctly, which has to be balanced against the torque/power benefits of low crankcase pressure - IIRC, around 0.3 to 0.5 bar of vacuum is generally the ball park. Don't forget to filter that air, too, and while some may have a simple breather for their vehicle, there are also devices that can be set to hold a specific vacuum level, adjusting the amount of air let in as required.
With "V" engines, especially 90 degree, it's not uncommon to have a scavenge from the head that's usually to the outside, or both, because lateral loads over ~1 G can cause oil to stack up in the head. I would assume a similar situation occurs with flat engines, like Subarus, and a scavenge from each head may be very beneficial?
With the oil tank, that kinda illustrated why one should always spend a little extra and get a tank that can be taken apart for cleaning, unless one has a filter between the scavenge pump and tank, there will be fine engine debris collecting in it that should be regularly cleaned out and checked - it is also a very good idea to take it apart when it's received and given a good clean and check over as, with most pressure stages, any rubbish left in it will pass through the pressure stage before the filtration.
We're using a Sony for the Vlog material instead of the usual Go-Pros in an attempt to improve the quality along with some mics at times. Good spotting and good point as always mate. Hope you're doing well up North, the nervous nail-biting is well into swing in the workshop here with a week to go before we have to load her on the trailer - Taz.
The pressure stage is at the rear where the relief valve is. FYI to increase pressure you can upgrade the spring in the relief valve.
The relief valve is adjustable so you can set your desired pressure (within reason) by winding the adjuster in or out - Andre
High Performance Academy yep and different springs have different pressure ranges. People need to choose one that suits their desired pressure (preferably one where the desire pressure sits around the middle of the pressure range on the spring if possible).
Looks like its finnished, but to cut down on airreated oil it's worth considering 2x -16 return pipes to the tank via an oil cooler on each. The slower rate of flow (but still the same volume) is quite effective
Love your info & delivery guys!
Thanks so much!
Great info so far! Would you make a follow-up video which details how you position, fill, and plumb the reservoir to prevent introducing air into the system?
You can't avoid introducing air into the system as the scavenge stages pull both air (blow by gasses) and oil from the sump. The key part is separating the oil and air from each other - Andre
@@hpa101 Thanks Andre! It sounds like the scavenging at the sump helps remove the majority of air. From there, an air oil separator plumbed in to the valve cover/oil reservoir combined with the reservoir having a swirl pot design should help limit any further air. Am I on the right track?
Ross parts are such high quality. looking forward to seeing this on the track
We're really happy with it all so far, cheers mate! - Taz.
Where exactly does the pump hose feed oil in the engine ,i got where exactly it scavenges it
Good morning HPA team! Hope you're all having a wonderful day down there. Bring on the new and improved 86, the circuit car that currently costs more per mile to drive than DOCILE! (I'm never letting you get away from that comment Andre bro. 😂🤣👍)
#Day147OfContinuousPeerPressureOnAndre
Can you or should you seal off the valve covers from any other style of PCV? Also what is typically done with the stock oil pick up tube and gear/pump? You just simply remove the internal pump gear and pick up tube? If so does any of it need to be blocked off?
You can block off the normal breathers but typically you'd want to run a vacuum regulator to prevent excessive vacuum in the crank case. This works well for N/A engines but turbo engines tend to still generate positive crank case pressure (depending on boost levels) so a breather in this case is still beneficial. The dip stick tube can be blanked or used as a pressure sensor port and the stock oil pump gears are simply removed - Andre
With a dry sump would you run a thinner oil than normal to also help with response etc as pressure v heat is not as much of an issue or still keep the same oil as that’s why the motor needs
No, the oil specification is not affected by a wet or dry sump system.
How does the dry sump setup change the oil capacity of the system compared to factory wet sump?
Typically the oil capacity increases quite dramatically. 6-8 litres is not uncommon.
What about baffled wet sump pans are those any good?
They can be when designed well but they still can't beat a proper dry sump system - Andre
There's a good video on it here where David from Mountune talks about the wet sump setup for the BTCC FA20 powered cars they were involved with. Basically if the rules didn't dictate a wet sump, it would have been cheaper and easier to run a dry sump setup, but he'll fill you in: th-cam.com/video/csDa_Di8r44/w-d-xo.html - Taz.
High Performance Academy awesome video thank you for that! I’m going to be looking into a dry sump and that syringe of oil for protection on the track corners!
What size hose for the main oil feed from tank to pump are you using? -12 or -16
Do you have a link to this dry sump kit by chance? (S13 SR20DET)
How practical is it to run 1 of these on a daily/ fast road car? Dry sumps are an option on ford duratec engines using internal high pressure pump.
Not as practical as a wet sump given the requirement for a reservoir and increased oil capacity, but what people are willing to put up with in a road car and what they aren't really comes down to personal choices and budget/s. With the 1UZ-FE this car was road legal and had a dry sump when we got it for example. It also had no passenger seat either though - Taz.
Please tell me how to protect the engine if the belt breaks? How to cut off the ignition programmatically in the M48 motec?
run a trigger wheel/sensor on the pump and make a map that cuts ignition if pump loses rpm or just do a simple oil pressure cut
@@RHBTurbochargers Oh, thanks for the idea! I have a Weiss pump, it has a fuel pump drive. Probably the easiest way to attach a trigger disk to it. But such a sensor needs 3 wires, and the M48 has inputs only for engine control. You can somehow implement cutting the ignition from the emergency lamp oil pressure?
The M48 Moteс has inputs from switches.
It's been a long time since I've dealt with the M48 and it was a lot more primitive than the x00 series and the M1 series. In the later ECUs you can simply set up a protection strategy based on oil pressure but I can't recall if that is possible on the M48 sorry - Andre
@@hpa101 Thanks.I work with what I have.)
What is your opinion what it comes to turbo oil return line: should I connect it straight to a scanvenge stage Via T or tap own -10 to the scanvenge sump?
Personally I prefer to return the oil from the turbo into the sump and scavenged from there rather than dedicate a complete scavenge stage to it. If the plumbing is too hard to get the oil return into the sump then I'd be inclined to tee it into a scavenge line - Andre
@@hpa101 Thanks for the reply, I was thinking to tap it with own connector. 😎
What size an hose line are you guy's using for feed and return?
The suction side from the tank is -16 and everything else is -12
@@hpa101
what type of line is use with out the chance of having the line collapsing under suction?
Who makes that kit for the sr20?
Ross Performance Parts
what made you choose ross over mazworx
Probably just availability at the time. We have plenty of other Mazworx bits on it - Taz.
Accusump by Canton racing products, run one or two.