6:37 I was trying to learn 7empest by TOOL: the solo section in the middle follows a 7/8 alternating pattern. I figured it as 2+2+2+2+3+3+3+2+2 (or 4+4+9+4 - whichever way you count it, it adds up to 21). And, obviously, the guitar intro follows a different pattern entirely, using a 3+2+3+2+3+2+3+3 (or a 5+5+5+6 - again, adds up to 21). Fun fact
Quick and dirty rule is if the change happens on the down beat it's x/4. If it happens on the up beat then it's x/8. So since Money changes on the down beat it's in 7/4. Gilmore even stated that he was initially wrong calling it 7/8 and that it was in fact 7/4. He wrote it so I'm gonna agree with him.
This has been the most burning theoretical question to me for well over 30 years. Sounds to me our host is saying that it's meaningless (except wrt notation). But you seem to be saying there is a audible difference? But for a few proud minutes, I UNDERSTOOD the time signature denominator. Thanks pal!
@@TheSimonScowl thats why I said quick and dirty. If you don't have the composer's sheet music, then you are left trying to figure it out yourself. This "rule" helps me grasp it a bit better.
The way I understood it is you have to establish the tempo first. Then if it's "a bar plus most of a bar" (Money) then it's 7/4 and if it's "not quite a bar" (eg Jocko Homo by Devo) then it's 7/8. Most songs with 7/8 or 7/4 have a 4/4 section too and you use that to decide which is which, or if not then you just tap your foot along and decide that way on the basis of which feels more natural.
@@TheSimonScowl Let me offer a very different theory-answer. Like a lot of things (“when is it D# vs Eb”) the difference in x/4, x/8, x/16 comes from written music in staff notation. In staff notation you were expected to describe the pace with an adjective, in rough order from “solemn” to “broad sweeping” to “emotional” to “walking” to “moderate” to “cheerful” to “lively” to “frantic.” So you were meant to listen to the piece and choose one of these adjectives to describe it, except they were written in Italian - grave/largo/adagio/andante/moderato/allegro/vivace/presto. Italian also has diminutives and augmentatives, so “a very emotional pace,” “adagissimo”, “a bit cheerful of a pace,” “allegretto.” Based on those categories a quarter note has a certain approximate/expected duration. The gravé quarter note is expected to be around 2s long, could be 1.5 or 2.5 or even 3, but if your music specified a quarter note 1s long that would be too far away and you'd want to switch it up, treat what you were calling a quarter note as a gravé eighth note. The largo quarter note is expected to be around 1.2s long, the adagio to be 1s long, andante 750ms, moderato 550ms, allegro 450ms, vivace 375ms, presto 325ms. Again these are not exact so only convert them to BPM with some caution “the BPM just needs to be near this reference value not equal to it,” these are g≈30bpm, l≈50, ad≈60, an≈80, m≈110, al≈130, v≈160, p≈185. So when I use a BPM tapper to tap along with this video 1-2-1-2-1-2-3, 1-2-1-2-1-2-3, I find something like 250, 260 “bpm” tapping along with those numbers. If you are going to write something that feels like a very frantic System-of-a-Down song “1and2-1and2-1and2and3and1and2-1and2-1and2and3and...” then I should write “very frantic” or *prestissimo* and then the proper time signature is 7/4. But if he is instead targeting smooth and funky then I should write *moderato* or upbeat swingy I should write *allegro* and then I should write it as 7/8. Or if he wants to play very moody emo with the same speed of 1-2-1-2-1-2-3 counting, some notes sustain for the whole bar or multiple bars, I should describe it as 7/16 (and potentially then regroup the measures into 14/16 and rewrite as 7/8 with an underlying count “1-and-2-and-3-and-4-5-and-6-and-7-and-8”.
To me, "Money" seems most intuitively notated as 7/4, and I've always thought of it as 7/4, especially since it's swung. I think of it as a quarter note pulse with swung eighths, which, at least in my experience, is more usual and conventional than 7/8 with swung 16ths. I mean, you can think of it that way, sure, but in terms of reading the music, 7/4 makes the most sense to me and would look the most familiar.
9/8 is another really cool one for you to explore too. My band has a section of a song where it's primarily 4/4, then there's a bar of 9/8 at the end, so it tricks the listener with a sudden extra half-beat. It also works as a neat little accent to signify the end of the current repetition and the beginning of the next!
The song Pisces by Jinjer starts with what I would argue to be 7/4. However, the guitar tabs I found notate it as 3/4 and 4/4 (so they change the time signature every bar). Why do people prefer that? To me, it is much less confusing to just use 7/4 until it really changes to 3/4.
There is a big difference between 7/8 and... 7/8. Is the eighth note the smallest value ? If it's not, you have 14 sixteenth notes in the bar. No fingering problem (sticking) for the drummer, piece of cake. If the eighth note is the smallest value, this will be way harder to play because we have to find a new rhythmic vocabulary, as we can't adapt our 4/4 idiosyncrasies.
I think of them this way (in order of importance): 1) Tempo. You generally want your fastest notes to be 32nds and your slowest notes to be whole notes. 2) Accents. This could easily be #1 as well, I think it's possibly because of this that people are so divided about it because people think of accents differently. Not unlike our spoken accents. 3) Ease of reading. Standard notation especially can become a mess if you don't even consider this. As for _Money,_ there's no "wrong" way. I count is as either 7/8 or when I want to amuse myself I'll count it in 4/4 + 3/4.
7/8 rhythm is one of the easiest measures in the traditional Bulgarian (and some other Balkan nations) folklore music :) Try to play for example (9+5)/16 beat, you will like it :) And Don Ellis' piano player was the unforgettable Milcho Leviev from BG, G-d bless his soul!
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar - Dang it! I'm so sorry that in my enthusiasm I've let our side down, it appears. Love, love, love your channel! I eat it up. More of this and everything else you put out, please.
Same here. Even wrote a little 7/4 punk ditty, back in the day, 4+3, but it seems now as if 3+1+3 might fit too because the middle beat of the bar is a rest. 🤷♂️
This can limit yourself in your righting though. There are A LOT of other rhythmic permutations in a bar of 7/4 so you might wanna try those out as well.
I guess it would be hard to argue whether it's "groovy" necessarily, but seeing you are in Canada and in light of his recent passing _ I would be remissed if I didn't mention Rush and Neil Peart's "Freewill" which has sections in 7/4 7/8. Thanks for the continuing great content. Cheers!
@@daddyd543 yes, but from what I understand it is even more of a mixed meter than Freewill in terms of shifting from 4/4 to 7/8. I admittedly hadn't tried to count that one before and had to look it up! I 😜
What great timing for this lesson - I'm taking Solsbury Hill for inspiration this week, in 7/4, and your video helps me interpret and apply. Keep up the great work, Tomasso.
I've asked two friends that are internationally renown opera singers for something about music theory. What they sent me to was drekky. I listened to a ditty on MainePublic, and said I wonder what rhythm that was and found this TH-cam! Finally someone that is explaining what I have always wanted explained! Thank you! Thank You! Thank You! Thank YOU!
Dream Theater - Forsaken (Intro & Verses, but not chorus). Here's some other: Dream Theater - Our New World (main riff); Dream Theater - S2N (this one is quirky 7/8 + 4/4)
Another great video!!! I like how Gavin Harrison explained 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 like this: Ta-ka-Ta-ka-Ta-ka-ka (where claps fall into ka, and because we are not counting, but instead we use the syllables it seems easier to follow- in my opinion). I've just subscribed to the channel, keep up the great work your doing!!!! :)
first song i can think of in 7/8 that is divided into 2+3+2 is “cranes planes and migranes” (very fun bassline for any bassists out there). this video was super helpful though and this can be done with any time signature which is so handy! i think you unlocked something huge for me
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar I'd love to see a video discussing why there can't be a 3/3 time signature. I got asked this and I really had no proper answer to it.
My all-time fav 7:8 tune is this 3+2+2 song from confidential Hungarian ethno-rock band Barbaró, whose guitar player Sándor Cziránku (a modest school janitor in Budapest in his day job) incidentally had the most totally unique technique and sound already 30 years ago (he's worth checking out): th-cam.com/video/FoFSIsk254k/w-d-xo.html
5:00 a good example of the 1-2 1-2-3 1-2 rhythm is in TOOL's "Invincible" segmenting the melody in such a way makes it so much easier to process and enjoy
To me, 7/4 is best used when the tempo suggest crotchets, like in Money. It has a steady pulse, where every beat is the same length, so Itfeels to me like two bars of 4 with one missing (simply put), Nd is to me best described as 7/4. The next example (which is as far as I've gotten while writing this) feels like it's in two, with one beat slightly shorter. The pulse is “wonky”, so it feels like a bar of 2/2 with a shorter second beat, and is to me best described as 7/8. That's how I would normally make the distinction when making charts. :-)
I've written 2 songs in 7/8 time. One is derived, in part, from a classical tune. The other is an original 'round' (two stanzas sung over & over, similar to row row row your boat) - it's split; 5 & 2. I'm cash poor, so the only way I have to record them is mobile phone with a crappy guitar, ...but I'll get something out on YT b4 2 long.
The thing is I can't figure out how to count it correctly. It also has a roland 808 in 4/4 for the whole song which makes the sections in 7/4 polirythmic
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar oh thank you! Very quick reply. I was wondering how to count the intro section in 7/4, how it is divided (in groups of 3/4 and 4/4). Here's a bass cover that shows the music accurately notated: th-cam.com/video/ysFZ71CFNHk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=hFSXMBP0pjFhnoEK My guess is that it's 3/4 and then 4/4, am I wrong?
7/8 is well known in the countries of ex-Yugoslavia Here are two popular songs in 3+2+2 th-cam.com/video/-4xdfEzFbrc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/_Xc78F6wtZI/w-d-xo.html
I thought i would just see it for a few seconds and hop on to 'MESHUGGAH' TYPE TUTORIALS.....I am begiining to see the light but not quite there yet. Can u sir, do a MESHUGGAH type lesson, a basic...i am a bassist and i wanna get into the meshuggah/ron jarzombek spehere of dissonance till the end of my life. and i feel you have the key to that.
In the Song "Forsaken" from Dream Theater, the piano opens the song with three bars 7/4 (then two bars 4/4). I've tried all combinations 2 + 2 + 3, 3 + 3 + 1, etc., but none of them help. I can't really feel the rhythm pattern in the first three bars. Any clue?
Although, not an expert, it seems to me that Money is easily counted one, two, one, two, one, two, three, i.e. 7/4, not one and two, and one and two, and one and two and three, i.e. 7/8.
For me the way I differentiate 7/8 to 7/4 is related to the skipping effect some songs have when they are in 7, so for example for me Money doesn’t have that feels, it really feels like a 4/4 bar followed by a 3/4 bar, then bones by Alice In Chains feels like a 4/4 bar but it the last beat being shorter than the others
alright, I'm confused with this one, especially if we break it down into 3 patters. Need some help here with signature th-cam.com/video/wuRsiF2Uw2Q/w-d-xo.html
I come from a place, where 7/8 is the basis of our Folk Music, and almost no one ever counts 2+3+2. For whatever reason, even if the song starts with the idea of it, it will often be written and counted as a single "2" in the first bar, and then everything shifts 2 beats to the left to turn back into 3+2+2. I think this might be why you couldn't find any examples - most people will shift the whole thing two beats to the left to have it end up feeling like a 3+2+2. I think humans tend to like grouping similar things together.
My favorite example of a 7/8 based groove (actually, it has an alternating pattern of 7/8 and 8/8) is this from Israeli composer and floutist Shem Tov Levi: th-cam.com/video/uJx3i1NiXoM/w-d-xo.html It was a pretty big hit, locally, and people of my generation in Israel generally know the tune to this day. Few suspect there's anything unusual under the hood. Earlier, in 1977, Levi also wrote, and performed with his short-lived band Sheshet an instrumental titled "7/8", which is also quite adictive: th-cam.com/video/D5fkqViVzv0/w-d-xo.html.
7/8=3 beats, one compound and two simple 7/4=7 beats, all simple At least this is how I approach it. I use 8 as the bottom number when I’m using at least one compound beat or a beat of only one eighth note
I don't speak English but this video is so good that if I understand it ... thank you very much, like, subscription and activated the bell, kind regards from Lima-Peru. i am using google translator
Three of a Perfect Pair was a great Bruford example of changing the paradigm - in the chorus, the drums played a two bar pattern in 7/4 against a 7/8 tune. Genesis did some great 7/8 stuff in the ‘70s as well.
This may have been mentioned in an earlier comment but "Unsquare Dance" by Dave Brubeck is 7/4 and is in the 2+2+3 rhythm you described, with hand-claps on the off beats. It may be what inspired the song you played.
You are probably right. I heard Don Ellis explicitly said in an interview that he was inspired by "unsquare dance", though I could not find the original interview.
Actual footage of me counting by the end of this video "one plus two plus two plus one" th-cam.com/video/O5ROhf5Soqs/w-d-xo.html (sad still only add to six)
![The COOLEST Odd Time Signature [Mission Impossible, Music Theory]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/948iIiI2kmQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![The COOLEST Odd Time Signature [Mission Impossible, Music Theory]](/img/tr.png)
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This channel is essential not just for improving my music but for feeding my curiosity. Thank you so much ❤️
wantutri, wantutri, wantu, wantu, wantutri ....
:D
In Prokofiev's piano sonata op. 83, the third movement is written in 7/8 with the 2+3+2 gropuing.
Macedonian people: 😎
6:37 I was trying to learn 7empest by TOOL: the solo section in the middle follows a 7/8 alternating pattern. I figured it as 2+2+2+2+3+3+3+2+2 (or 4+4+9+4 - whichever way you count it, it adds up to 21). And, obviously, the guitar intro follows a different pattern entirely, using a 3+2+3+2+3+2+3+3 (or a 5+5+5+6 - again, adds up to 21). Fun fact
King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard have a whole bunch of songs and song sections written in 7/x.
Don Ellis' "Turkish Bath" is written in 7/4 with the 1-2/1-2-3/1-2 feel and is how it's noted in my chart.
Quick and dirty rule is if the change happens on the down beat it's x/4. If it happens on the up beat then it's x/8. So since Money changes on the down beat it's in 7/4. Gilmore even stated that he was initially wrong calling it 7/8 and that it was in fact 7/4. He wrote it so I'm gonna agree with him.
This has been the most burning theoretical question to me for well over 30 years. Sounds to me our host is saying that it's meaningless (except wrt notation). But you seem to be saying there is a audible difference? But for a few proud minutes, I UNDERSTOOD the time signature denominator. Thanks pal!
@@TheSimonScowl thats why I said quick and dirty. If you don't have the composer's sheet music, then you are left trying to figure it out yourself. This "rule" helps me grasp it a bit better.
The way I understood it is you have to establish the tempo first. Then if it's "a bar plus most of a bar" (Money) then it's 7/4 and if it's "not quite a bar" (eg Jocko Homo by Devo) then it's 7/8. Most songs with 7/8 or 7/4 have a 4/4 section too and you use that to decide which is which, or if not then you just tap your foot along and decide that way on the basis of which feels more natural.
Roger Waters wrote "Money". Not that Gilmour's opinion is invalid, I agree with him, but he didn't write it.
@@TheSimonScowl Let me offer a very different theory-answer.
Like a lot of things (“when is it D# vs Eb”) the difference in x/4, x/8, x/16 comes from written music in staff notation. In staff notation you were expected to describe the pace with an adjective, in rough order from “solemn” to “broad sweeping” to “emotional” to “walking” to “moderate” to “cheerful” to “lively” to “frantic.” So you were meant to listen to the piece and choose one of these adjectives to describe it, except they were written in Italian - grave/largo/adagio/andante/moderato/allegro/vivace/presto. Italian also has diminutives and augmentatives, so “a very emotional pace,” “adagissimo”, “a bit cheerful of a pace,” “allegretto.”
Based on those categories a quarter note has a certain approximate/expected duration. The gravé quarter note is expected to be around 2s long, could be 1.5 or 2.5 or even 3, but if your music specified a quarter note 1s long that would be too far away and you'd want to switch it up, treat what you were calling a quarter note as a gravé eighth note. The largo quarter note is expected to be around 1.2s long, the adagio to be 1s long, andante 750ms, moderato 550ms, allegro 450ms, vivace 375ms, presto 325ms. Again these are not exact so only convert them to BPM with some caution “the BPM just needs to be near this reference value not equal to it,” these are g≈30bpm, l≈50, ad≈60, an≈80, m≈110, al≈130, v≈160, p≈185.
So when I use a BPM tapper to tap along with this video 1-2-1-2-1-2-3, 1-2-1-2-1-2-3, I find something like 250, 260 “bpm” tapping along with those numbers. If you are going to write something that feels like a very frantic System-of-a-Down song “1and2-1and2-1and2and3and1and2-1and2-1and2and3and...” then I should write “very frantic” or *prestissimo* and then the proper time signature is 7/4. But if he is instead targeting smooth and funky then I should write *moderato* or upbeat swingy I should write *allegro* and then I should write it as 7/8. Or if he wants to play very moody emo with the same speed of 1-2-1-2-1-2-3 counting, some notes sustain for the whole bar or multiple bars, I should describe it as 7/16 (and potentially then regroup the measures into 14/16 and rewrite as 7/8 with an underlying count “1-and-2-and-3-and-4-5-and-6-and-7-and-8”.
Well...I think I'll try to write our new metal riff in 2 3 2😅
To me, "Money" seems most intuitively notated as 7/4, and I've always thought of it as 7/4, especially since it's swung. I think of it as a quarter note pulse with swung eighths, which, at least in my experience, is more usual and conventional than 7/8 with swung 16ths. I mean, you can think of it that way, sure, but in terms of reading the music, 7/4 makes the most sense to me and would look the most familiar.
"5/4 is the grooviest!"
"7/4 is the grooviest!"
Robert Fripp: Why not both? (Re-forms King Crimson in the 1990s, composes 5 vs. 7 polyrhythm songs)
projekct* have some of the grooviest songs of all time
9/8 is another really cool one for you to explore too. My band has a section of a song where it's primarily 4/4, then there's a bar of 9/8 at the end, so it tricks the listener with a sudden extra half-beat. It also works as a neat little accent to signify the end of the current repetition and the beginning of the next!
The song Pisces by Jinjer starts with what I would argue to be 7/4. However, the guitar tabs I found notate it as 3/4 and 4/4 (so they change the time signature every bar). Why do people prefer that? To me, it is much less confusing to just use 7/4 until it really changes to 3/4.
There is a big difference between 7/8 and... 7/8. Is the eighth note the smallest value ?
If it's not, you have 14 sixteenth notes in the bar. No fingering problem (sticking) for the drummer, piece of cake. If the eighth note is the smallest value, this will be way harder to play because we have to find a new rhythmic vocabulary, as we can't adapt our 4/4 idiosyncrasies.
Alice in Chains - Them bones (except chorus which is in 4/4)
And outshined
And Spoonman
King Gizzard has entered the chat
Ayyyeee 🎉
1
I think of them this way (in order of importance):
1) Tempo. You generally want your fastest notes to be 32nds and your slowest notes to be whole notes.
2) Accents. This could easily be #1 as well, I think it's possibly because of this that people are so divided about it because people think of accents differently. Not unlike our spoken accents.
3) Ease of reading. Standard notation especially can become a mess if you don't even consider this.
As for _Money,_ there's no "wrong" way. I count is as either 7/8 or when I want to amuse myself I'll count it in 4/4 + 3/4.
I blurt out something that muses me and go back and try and figure it out! Occasionally I get something. Cool comment btw!
Couldn’t help hearing Tool beats while watching this vid hahah
I love how you can make 7/8 time swing. Probably my favourite odd time signature and one of the most common
In 160bpm by Hans Zimmer it's a 7/8 beat but at a 1-2-3-4+1-2-3
around 4:55 i started feeling like I was listening to a home depot commercial
Tool. I just hear Tool... Maybe King Krimson
Radiohead’s “paranoid android” has a few breaks in 7/8 that feel like 2+3+2
more like 2+2 =5, am i right
but for real though, 2+2=5's intro is in 7/8 too
7/8 rhythm is one of the easiest measures in the traditional Bulgarian (and some other Balkan nations) folklore music :) Try to play for example (9+5)/16 beat, you will like it :) And Don Ellis' piano player was the unforgettable Milcho Leviev from BG, G-d bless his soul!
Cool! Break out the Shopska salad baby!
My brain can't function properly on odd time signatures, especially 7/8🤒
Thx for helping out with this WHACKY stuff.i really enjoy ur style of teaching
Damn! I've never come across a cool video with no dislikes yet! What is this world I'm living in?
Shhhh don't jinx it ;)
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar - Dang it! I'm so sorry that in my enthusiasm I've let our side down, it appears. Love, love, love your channel! I eat it up. More of this and everything else you put out, please.
1 dislike now
😔
I've always thought of these time signatures as 4+3, as if it's a full bar (or two) of four beats with one "missing" at the end
Same here. Even wrote a little 7/4 punk ditty, back in the day, 4+3, but it seems now as if 3+1+3 might fit too because the middle beat of the bar is a rest. 🤷♂️
This can limit yourself in your righting though. There are A LOT of other rhythmic permutations in a bar of 7/4 so you might wanna try those out as well.
If it’s almost a full bar, it’s 7/8. If it’s almost two full bars, it’s 7/4, like Money.
what about 1234-123? among all the combinations said, you didn't mention that one. lol :) Nice videos as always!
"Unsquare Dance" by Dave Brubeck uses exactly the same off-beat hand-clapping as the Don Ellis tune
You beat me to this comment! :)
I guess it would be hard to argue whether it's "groovy" necessarily, but seeing you are in Canada and in light of his recent passing _ I would be remissed if I didn't mention Rush and Neil Peart's "Freewill" which has sections in 7/4 7/8. Thanks for the continuing great content.
Cheers!
Isn't "Tom Sawyer" by Rush also in 7/8?
@@daddyd543 yes, but from what I understand it is even more of a mixed meter than Freewill in terms of shifting from 4/4 to 7/8. I admittedly hadn't tried to count that one before and had to look it up! I 😜
daddyd543 only the signature run. The rest of it is 4/4
(7/4) Shoreline is a very exciting song by Broken Social Scene.
I definitely see money as 7/4 as the snare falls on 2, 4 and 6, and they dont feel like off-beats to me.
What great timing for this lesson - I'm taking Solsbury Hill for inspiration this week, in 7/4, and your video helps me interpret and apply. Keep up the great work, Tomasso.
2+3+2= the Home Depot jingle! 5:29
2+3+2 sounds like Coldplay's Death and All His Friends at the end part when theyre singing the "I dont wanna follow death and all of his friends" part
want to tree, want two trees, want to, want to
HAHAHA :)
I've asked two friends that are internationally renown opera singers for something about music theory. What they sent me to was drekky. I listened to a ditty on MainePublic, and said I wonder what rhythm that was and found this TH-cam! Finally someone that is explaining what I have always wanted explained! Thank you! Thank You! Thank You! Thank YOU!
My pleasure :)
Dream Theater - Forsaken (Intro & Verses, but not chorus).
Here's some other:
Dream Theater - Our New World (main riff);
Dream Theater - S2N (this one is quirky 7/8 + 4/4)
Another great video!!! I like how Gavin Harrison explained 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 like this: Ta-ka-Ta-ka-Ta-ka-ka (where claps fall into ka, and because we are not counting, but instead we use the syllables it seems easier to follow- in my opinion). I've just subscribed to the channel, keep up the great work your doing!!!! :)
2 of my favourite songs are in 7/8! $1.78 by schwank and Marigold by periphery (although the chorus is 4/4)
first song i can think of in 7/8 that is divided into 2+3+2 is “cranes planes and migranes” (very fun bassline for any bassists out there). this video was super helpful though and this can be done with any time signature which is so handy! i think you unlocked something huge for me
Tool Schism is 2+3 and 2+2+3.
Also you could
1.5+1.5+1.5+1.5+1
Wonderful. Thank you so very much again. Your explanations are so great
Really appreciated your insights!
It just became clear to me after viewing your post.
Two cool songs in 7... Lucky Seven by Chris Squire and Unsquare Dance by Dave Brubeck
Love these Time signature videos... It would be great to watch one on difference and reasons we use 3/4 n 6/8 with examples... Thanks Tommaso
What a coincidence... I just finished writing the script for it ;-)
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Wow... Can't wait to watch it...Excited:)
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar I'd love to see a video discussing why there can't be a 3/3 time signature. I got asked this and I really had no proper answer to it.
My all-time fav 7:8 tune is this 3+2+2 song from confidential Hungarian ethno-rock band Barbaró, whose guitar player Sándor Cziránku (a modest school janitor in Budapest in his day job) incidentally had the most totally unique technique and sound already 30 years ago (he's worth checking out): th-cam.com/video/FoFSIsk254k/w-d-xo.html
2:18 5/4 are you sure? I count 7/8
5:00 a good example of the 1-2 1-2-3 1-2 rhythm is in TOOL's "Invincible" segmenting the melody in such a way makes it so much easier to process and enjoy
Also, Yanni's song WITHIN ATTRACTION is in 7/8.
Nice job!
(X+y)×(3-2)×(6÷2) = 17/72 time signature for my tune Concentrated Orange Juice. The songs a squeeze! GREAT CHANNEL!
the 2+3+2 feel reminds me of a lot of the score in There Will Be Blood by Johnny Greenwood (Radiohead)
helped me a lot!
To me, 7/4 is best used when the tempo suggest crotchets, like in Money. It has a steady pulse, where every beat is the same length, so Itfeels to me like two bars of 4 with one missing (simply put), Nd is to me best described as 7/4. The next example (which is as far as I've gotten while writing this) feels like it's in two, with one beat slightly shorter. The pulse is “wonky”, so it feels like a bar of 2/2 with a shorter second beat, and is to me best described as 7/8. That's how I would normally make the distinction when making charts. :-)
What about 7/16?
I've written 2 songs in 7/8 time. One is derived, in part, from a classical tune. The other is an original 'round' (two stanzas sung over & over, similar to row row row your boat) - it's split; 5 & 2. I'm cash poor, so the only way I have to record them is mobile phone with a crappy guitar, ...but I'll get something out on YT b4 2 long.
Great video!
For another incredibly groovy song in 7/4, listen to Nos Siguen Pegando Abajo by Charly García. The whole album is awesome too!
The thing is I can't figure out how to count it correctly. It also has a roland 808 in 4/4 for the whole song which makes the sections in 7/4 polirythmic
Verse in 4/4, chorus in 7/4, but the first bar of the chorus is in 5/4. Or at least that's how I count it after hearing it once ;-)
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar oh thank you! Very quick reply. I was wondering how to count the intro section in 7/4, how it is divided (in groups of 3/4 and 4/4). Here's a bass cover that shows the music accurately notated: th-cam.com/video/ysFZ71CFNHk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=hFSXMBP0pjFhnoEK
My guess is that it's 3/4 and then 4/4, am I wrong?
7/8 is well known in the countries of ex-Yugoslavia
Here are two popular songs in 3+2+2
th-cam.com/video/-4xdfEzFbrc/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/_Xc78F6wtZI/w-d-xo.html
I thought i would just see it for a few seconds and hop on to 'MESHUGGAH' TYPE TUTORIALS.....I am begiining to see the light but not quite there yet.
Can u sir, do a MESHUGGAH type lesson, a basic...i am a bassist and i wanna get into the meshuggah/ron jarzombek spehere of dissonance till the end of my life. and i feel you have the key to that.
Very nice sir
You lost me at 1-2-3 around minute 8 :). But great lesson and LOVE the whiteboard! Viva la old school. Thanks man.
In the Song "Forsaken" from Dream Theater, the piano opens the song with three bars 7/4 (then two bars 4/4). I've tried all combinations 2 + 2 + 3, 3 + 3 + 1, etc., but none of them help. I can't really feel the rhythm pattern in the first three bars. Any clue?
Although, not an expert, it seems to me that Money is easily counted one, two, one, two, one, two, three, i.e. 7/4, not one and two, and one and two, and one and two and three, i.e. 7/8.
God of War 2+3+2
For me the way I differentiate 7/8 to 7/4 is related to the skipping effect some songs have when they are in 7, so for example for me Money doesn’t have that feels, it really feels like a 4/4 bar followed by a 3/4 bar, then bones by Alice In Chains feels like a 4/4 bar but it the last beat being shorter than the others
well explained
dream theater’s dance of eternity has a 2+3+2 beat in it. though the majority of the song is not in 7/x.
alright, I'm confused with this one, especially if we break it down into 3 patters. Need some help here with signature th-cam.com/video/wuRsiF2Uw2Q/w-d-xo.html
I come from a place, where 7/8 is the basis of our Folk Music, and almost no one ever counts 2+3+2. For whatever reason, even if the song starts with the idea of it, it will often be written and counted as a single "2" in the first bar, and then everything shifts 2 beats to the left to turn back into 3+2+2. I think this might be why you couldn't find any examples - most people will shift the whole thing two beats to the left to have it end up feeling like a 3+2+2. I think humans tend to like grouping similar things together.
Interesting!
The Future That Awaited me by Animals as Leaders starts with the 2+3+2 pattern
Thank you!
My favorite example of a 7/8 based groove (actually, it has an alternating pattern of 7/8 and 8/8) is this from Israeli composer and floutist Shem Tov Levi: th-cam.com/video/uJx3i1NiXoM/w-d-xo.html It was a pretty big hit, locally, and people of my generation in Israel generally know the tune to this day. Few suspect there's anything unusual under the hood. Earlier, in 1977, Levi also wrote, and performed with his short-lived band Sheshet an instrumental titled "7/8", which is also quite adictive: th-cam.com/video/D5fkqViVzv0/w-d-xo.html.
7/8=3 beats, one compound and two simple
7/4=7 beats, all simple
At least this is how I approach it. I use 8 as the bottom number when I’m using at least one compound beat or a beat of only one eighth note
This is simply 🤯
I don't speak English but this video is so good that if I understand it ... thank you very much, like, subscription and activated the bell, kind regards from Lima-Peru.
i am using google translator
First time I have ever understood this! Thank you so much. Really, thank you. No, reeeeally.
Ruby Love by Cat Steven is in 7/8. This time signature is typical in Greece, everybody knows to dance (Kalamatianos dance) to it as well.
What was the name of the don Ellis song you played??
Pussy Wiggle Stomp.
I have always felt "Money" as 4 + 3. That F# sounds like a pickup to me. The accent is on the A, it even has a kick drum hit with it.
Great!
Three of a Perfect Pair was a great Bruford example of changing the paradigm - in the chorus, the drums played a two bar pattern in 7/4 against a 7/8 tune. Genesis did some great 7/8 stuff in the ‘70s as well.
frame by frame or Discipline King Crimson Rocks them odd times like no one
Thanks!
The 7/8 time of Pink Floyd’s Money has fucked with my head for 48 years now.
Add a melody in Hijaz scale played with Kaval, Gajda, tambura andnTapan, and you will get Macedonian music!
"modify" by neil cicierega is in 2-3-2 7/8
I heard a 2-2-3 on drums, but thanks to introduce this artist to me.
Listen to Vojko V ” zovi covika” who makes fun of Balkan folk music who uses a lot of 7/8. The hole song is in 7/8 😀
This may have been mentioned in an earlier comment but "Unsquare Dance" by Dave Brubeck is 7/4 and is in the 2+2+3 rhythm you described, with hand-claps on the off beats. It may be what inspired the song you played.
You are probably right. I heard Don Ellis explicitly said in an interview that he was inspired by "unsquare dance", though I could not find the original interview.
Inspiring. I think I might possibly manage this ... amazingly good teaching.
Aimum of Bela Fleck. I thought it was in 7/16.
'La Villa Strangiato' by Rush mixes in 7/8 throughout the song
Actual footage of me counting by the end of this video "one plus two plus two plus one" th-cam.com/video/O5ROhf5Soqs/w-d-xo.html (sad still only add to six)
i feel like rush’s tom sawyer is none of these - is there maybe some 7/16 action?
Dá uma aula sobre a ESCALA MAIOR HARMÔNICA (HARMONIC MAJOR SCALE: C - D - E - F - G - Ab - B) e seu CAMPO HARMÔNICO....'....Tks from BRAZIL....'
Here's another one: Sting's Straight to my heart : th-cam.com/video/Zqb1sic8Gw4/w-d-xo.html
I'm not a guitar player, but this was very helpful. Many thanks!
7/8 is the most cursed time signature ever
Try 11 😃
"Vive les musiciens" has framentation 2 + 1 + 2 + 2 and the time signature is 7/8 and just before the repeat you will have 3+4