For those who still don't understand time signatures, the top number indicates the number of beats in a bar and the bottom number indicates the length or emphasis of the beat. So although something like 7/4 might seem terrifying, it really just means there are 7 crotchets (quarter notes) in a bar. Sometimes a composer will pick a combo of simpler time signatures to help the player understand the emphasis better. Say the 7/4 bar was actually just a 4/4 followed by a 3/4 repeated. You might write it in 4/4 3/4 or in 7/4 with accents or other notiation so the player knows your intention. But with all music there really isn't any true rules. As long as you can convey to the player how it needs to be done, you can use any markings you see fit.
I tried telling my parents this in high school. they didn't go for it, but a small part of me thinks they appreciated my academic approach to justifying my punkness.
8/8 is specifically useful for when plying music that has dancing choreographed to it. Dancers always count to 8 so it’s no trouble using 8/8 time for drummers. It makes it much easier to work with each other
they don't count in 8/8: they count by packs of eight beats in quarters, never in eights (spent my whole life playing for dance classes), easier to manage
PS: I'm getting some weird comments in my inbox that are then being deleted. Note: I'm not saying he IS a prog drummer, as in his signature style...I'm saying he seems like someone who is INTO prog rock in my retro 70's movie I'm casting him in inside my brain.
You're casting this guy in a 70's retro movie in your head - I'm gonna have to nope on that, I've spoken with the people and this is something we need in full production
@@gabrielfestini yes, you could technically count everything in 4/4. But then you have so many parameters going on, especially if you play with a band. So it is just easier to count it in a different or "right" time signature
As a guitar/violin teacher for 40 years, everyone who plays ANY instrument should be REQUIRED to learn at least 1 year on the drums to understand this. So many great students lack timing, an understanding of time signatures, and both's overall importance. It's nearly impossible to take your musical talent to the next level without it. Great vid and thank you.
Self-taught drummer here. Been playing quite a while, but since I am a working man I lacked the time to really spend the time. Yet, I still play, and I play fairly well. Long story short ... I always considered myself a 4/4 drummer. Ya know ... Rock drummer. Well ... after watching this it turns out I am not just a 4/4 drummer. I can play lots of different time signatures. I just don't know how to count them. Thanks man .... Made my day.
Man you are class. I'm 40 this year, playing drums for years and I find your break down of time signatures compiled in this way so helpful. Relating the signatures to songs is the master stroke. Never to old to learn. Thanks a million dude.
@@chrismahermusic5142 take me to xhurch I'll worship like a dog at the shrine of your lies I'll tell u my sins and you can sharpen your knife offer me that deathless death oh good God let me give you my life Pls critique my voice I have start 2 sing and I think I m singing quite well I post my sing to this comment pls give honest rate thank u
man I am stoned and was thinking about time signatures, realized I wasn't 100% on the concept, so off to the internet I went and so many other vids literally just spent 10 minutes talking about it with ZERO examples; finally I find your vid and you come thru with actual examples from music. My man!!! My absolute guy!!! Thank you!!!
@@jimlahey3919I've been playing Drums on and off for 39 years mostly self taught with a lesson here and there and I actually got lucky on some of it but I was always a Led Zeppelin fan. Not so much a Tool fan. But all these different time signatures. WOW. It really opened up my mind. The 4/4 really is a regular ol time signature but it has so many uses. Bernard Purdy and John Bonham have always put me in some kind of trance. And Niel Peart 😊
You know, it's crazy. Maybe it's because I was always musically inclined, but I always found myself counting beats, looking for the downbeat, which is how I unofficially learned meter. Lol
It's good stuff. When you really break it down it's just fractions. I always tried to explain time signatures to students as (how many)/(what kind). How many beats is the top number, what kind of beat is the bottom number. And just like fractions, the stuff that maths out the same can kinda be inter changeable depending on how you are feeling it. So 1/1, 2/2, 4/4, 3/4 and 6/8, etc.
To go further: -15/8 = The Ocean by Led Zeppelin -16/8 = Tubular Bells by Mike Oldfield (alternates with 14/8) -17/8 = Open Car by Porcupine Tree -18/8 = Birds Of Fire by Mahavishnu Orchestra -19/8 = Home by Dream Theater -20/8 = Gibbon by TTNG -21/8 = 7empest by Tool -22/8 = The First Circle by The Pat Metheny Group -23/8 = Surgical Strike by Queensrÿche -24/8 = Lateralus by Tool -25/8 = How's This For Openers? by Don Ellis -26/8 = Here Comes The Sun by The Beatles (this one surprised the Hell out of me, but it's there!) -27/8 = Witches Promise by Jethro Tull -28/8 = Octavarium by Dream Theater -29/8 = March Of The Pigs by Nine Inch Nails ...Not going any further, though there are some monsters out there. Could some of these be interpreted as split measures with combinations of different time signatures? Of course. But if they repeat at least twice in that same combination, it isn't too unreasonable to combine them to simplify the writing, at least enough to make this list.
@@chelfyn That's actually a big misconception due to the confusion between the denominator and the beat. Firstly though, let me amend my comment as I meant to say that it was a combination of 14/8 (not 7/8) and 16/8, which if you combined would be 30/8, or rather simplified to 15/4. That's where the confusion comes in. The piano rhythm is quite fast so it wouldn't make sense for each quarter note value to be 2 notes each, making each note an 8th note. As a result, the first half of the riff is 14 8th notes and the second half is 16, hence why I said it alternates between them. If we called it 15/8, then that would mean every quarter note value had 4 notes and it would be slower than walking speed, especially for a riff at that speed. Faster notes generally should be attributed to a faster beat, and the denominator of the time signature should represent the beat value. It's like the 7/4 vs 7/8 argument. An example of 7/4 is Money by Pink Floyd because the quarter note is the recognised drum beat and translates when it switches to 4/4 in the guitar solo. An example of 7/8 is Tom Sawyer by Rush where the exact opposite happens. The main beat is a slower 4/4 but switches to 7/8 during the synth and guitar solo section, translating that quarter note feel where it feels like 4/4 but missing an 8th note. To sum it up, it's more accurate or at least simpler to say that Tubular Bells is a combination of 14/8 + 16/8, or at best 15/4 if you truly wanted to condense it all to one measure. 15/8 implies that it's much slower than it is. The speed is about the same as the 7/8 section in Tom Sawyer, and thus if considered 15/8, would make the beat the same pace as the verses of Tom Sawyer, which it definitely isn't.
I personally think that feeling very whacky time signatures is much easier when you split them up, especially when the down beat falls in specfic places in between the larger time signature. For example, the main riff in Lateralus by Tool not only is written, but also is better felt as 9/8, 8/8, 7/8. This was actually how the riff was meant to be written and felt, since Adam Jones said the song was going to be called 9-8-7 and he realised that 987 was a fibonaccian number - hence why there are multiple references to the fibonacci sequence in the song. It may be easier to write out on paper as a combination of the smaller time signatures, but I think that reading and particularly feeling these types of songs makes more sense to write them as changing time signatures. However this does also depend on where the downbeat falls. Another example you've given is 7empest (sorry to use Tool again I do listen to other bands I swear lol), and here you would have a hard time counting all the way to 21 before starting a new bar. I would count this as 10/8 (some would say 5/4) and 11/8 changing, since it is obvious where the downbeat falls. (7empest can also be counted as 3 sets of 7/8 is you're a nutter) Hope this makes sense :)
For anyone looking for rock songs in the rare 13/16 time signature, Firth of Fifth by Genesis along with the equally rare 15/16 . Phil Collins catches a lot of flak for going commercial, but he was an excellent drummer.
Saw Genesis in 1984, they had two drummers. Phil Collins and the other drummer did a drum solo duel/duet that was the coldest shit I've ever seen live.
Played guitar for 25 years. Mediocre drummer at best. I definitely can't wrap my head around what he's telling me. It just strikes me as, " just follow the drummer. "
they're for playing, reading, and understanding music. they don't make a huge difference when listening to music, tho. essentially just gives you a vague idea of how to count and play a piece. such as 3/4 taking a slower, more elegant tone compared to 2/2 being faster and more exciting. they also tell you when a downbeat is. they aren't the most essential when it comes to easier pieces, but they make such a big difference in more complex pieces with how much easier they make it to understand tl;dr: they're to make sharing music between people easier
idk if its what you wanted but if i ever want to find a time signature, i tap along to the beat and it comes naturally, thinking too hard about it makes it more difficult imo
8/8 and 16/16 is useful for understanding changing time signatures in certain songs. Dance of eternity has a section with changing 16 times with the odd bar of 16/16 because its easier to digest in that context rather than seeing 4/4 written between a bar of 11/16 and 13/16.
I've never seen this guy before, but the way he explains stuff combined with how he talks with more physical gusto than an Italian is really effective and endearing.
I agree. I’ve never played the drums a day in my life, and this dude might as well be speaking a foreign language, but I too kept watching because da wizard is entertaining. 🍻
ikr? His delivery was stellar. Most good advert/endorsement I see on youtube relies heavily on text or editting, but this guy was more convincing in his acting.
I have a story I would like to share. I played drums in a cover band all through high school and when it came time to go to college I said ok I will major in music. The first day of music theory I knew it was a bad decision. I could not read music and had not a clue. I took drums and I thought ok I can do this. Again I could not read music the band director gave us sheet music for drums the first day. There was only one other student in the class besides me. I always let him play first and just repeated what I heard him play. It did not take long to change majors. I was the type of drummer I could listen to a song and repeat what I heard I was ok but not like you man. Enjoyed your video you are very knowledgable and a great drummer.
Right. Save urself the trouble. Playing an instrument is like being in a relationship. One relationship alone is hard enough to maintain. So for any novices out there heed my wise advice, & choose one or the other. If I had known how much time both relationships involve when I was younger I woulda chosen only the guitar. Choose wisely my friends:D
The amazing thing about rush is how they disguise odd time signatures. Usually bands will emphasize odd time signatures to show off, but to me the best bands can make you nod your head along and you won’t know that it’s something jazzy
@@gageharden1423 Nah, for pianists pitch isn't a concern. Press the key and you get a fixed pitch. For other instruments (or voice) getting pitch and intonation correct can be very tricky.
This man got the shittiest cymbals Zildjian ever made and you'd never know it just by listening. Great musicians, as seen here, don't need the best or most expensive gear to sound good. Great video!
@@johnbemery7922 lol, well yes to an extent, maybe. But the tone of the instrument also makes a huge difference. Think Pantera, or Van Halen. They have very distinct guitar tone, and in fact EVH is kinda famous for that tone, which is why the 5150 and Peavy 6505 are so iconic in rock and, particularly, metal. Same can be true in drums: low quality cymbals or drum shells can put off harsh, unpleasant, and annoying frequencies (like the Zildjian ZBT cymbals do, in my opinion). But of course great musicians and audio engineers may be able to work around or mitigate such shortcomings. But I'm rambling at this point.
Speaking of Hendrix. By stringing his guitar upside down, he had some modifications issues affecting intonation. To make up for it he detuned every string a semitone. Plus he played EXTREMELY "loose" aka expressive or trance like. All 3 of these things are as unconventional as it gets!!! & yet he sounded incredible. So his strings were backwards. They were also out of proper tune, & he played way too loose which caused him to make lots of mistakes, but this genius & master of a guitar player made it all incredibly unnoticeable.
But didn't Jimi play a right handed guitar just flipped around to lefty,so the strings where just the same if you flipped them to right so no restringing!
8/8 is useful when you format it as an odd time signature (such as 3+3+2) and you want the 8th notes grouped in that specific way. An example of this is Frank Ticheli's "Vesuvius" which has 7 measures of 8/8 somewhere in the beginning of the song.
mh, that's an interesting point. I ain't no expert on this, but this thought immediatly came to mind: could some drone music be counted on 1/1? cause if so there's plenty of great 1/1 tracks out there!
@Bad_Script Yep , that is how I counted it . The first time I played it I had never heard it and was doing a walk in with a covers band at a wedding ... The bass player was also a drummer and conducted the ONE TWO when it came around then went back to singing ... All made sense after that
@@weehudyy That is correct, harkens back to the drama on tiktok if it was in 11 or 4/2 alternating. It's the 4/2 as someone who has seen it notated for pep band tunes
@@bakerfam1000 Used a lot in country music . Townes Van Zant's ' Pancho and Leftie ... Bob Dylan slips in the bar of two four every now and then ... Then there is the mid section weirdness of King Crimson's Starless ... 13/8 , but break it into two bars of 3/4 two of 2/4 and another of 3/4 ( 1-2-3 , 2-2-3 , 1-2 , 1-2 , 1-2-3 ) and away ya go .
watched this as a pianist and still enjoyed every single second of it. unfortunately I'm not a jazz pianist so I have much less experience with odd time signatures but it is truly refreshing to listen to all these beats and song examples. thank you.
Massive props for the NIN shoutout. Trent writes a lot of his music in odd time signatures and people often don't notice because he uses so many sound layers.
As someone who has played drums since 2001, I really appreciated how quickly you went through everything and how well you explained it. Unfortunately, in my band I am the principal songwriter and often have to focus in on non-drum things, so it is always nice to have a moment to only focus in on playing the drums. Great explanations! Thanks!
I don't care if this feels young or old. It is a superb demonstration. How many of the critics can count and APPLY all of these signatures? As a veteran of music academia I can definitely say that this would be a fantastic lecture in first semester music theory. Great content. Cheers!
I remember years ago seeing Ian Paice on a TV show talking about the 7/4 beat, and saying the way he remembered, or counted it, was by thinking of the old Italian actress ... Gina Lollobrigida. I'm not a drummer, but I thought it was a cute way of counting the beat, and still remember it. Paicey was a fantastic drummer too. I was lucky enough to see him play, when the Deep Purple Mk II line up reformed, which is definitely before you were born. Sigh, I'm old.
I love when punk gets fused into genres/styles you wouldn't normally find it. Flogging Molly (folk) and Gogol Bordello (gypsy/polka) are a couple bands that fit that spectrum that I enjoy a lot.
There's a good Spotify playlist with songs that feature the Purdie Shuffle, and there are a few not on there like King Gizzard's Beginner's Luck or Ben Jones' remix of Latch...
8/8 is super useful when something has frequent mixed meter feeling changes, so you can do 3+3+2, 2+3+3, or 3+2+3 (especially if part of the ensemble is doing mixed meter and the rest is playing in straight 4). This way the time signature stays the same so it’s more straightforward for the performers. Frank Ticheli uses this through the piece Postcard.
Mixed meters could also be a reason to use 10/4 in place of 5/4, 12/8 instead of 6/8, etc. Of course the "feel" of the beat could also be a valid reason, for example some songs just feel better as 12/8 rather than 6/8. You can't explain it but it just feels right. Feel is a good enough justification for any notation decision in my opinion.
Thanks for that breakdown. I was going to comment about how I had always thought 8/8 & 4/4 were similar but with a different feel. I said that to my band’s drummer last year and she snapped, “No, it’s not!”
A lot of bluegrass and older country is the same. -Bassist. 1-5-1-5-1-5-1.... In bluegrass rather than bass snare it's normally, Bass, Mandolin, Bass mandolin.
Back when music was only on paper or played live, the actual "song" WAS the sheet music. So, there were ways to make your sheet music look fancier (one reason why notation is often quite elegant, I'm sure) and we took it a step further by being able to change time signatures to sort of reflect the feel of the music just by looking at the score. If you wanted to write a song that was super frilly and airy and light, you could use 2/2 and there would be lines and empty circles all over the place, most of your notes would be whole notes making the sheet music easy on the eyes; alternatively, if you wanted your song to be bold and powerful and loud, you could use 8/8, or perhaps even 12/8 and there would be 8th notes and 16th notes and 32nd notes all over the place making the sheet music dark and crowded. This way it was easier to tell what kind of song it might be just by looking at it, even at a distance (I'd say "or to a layman", but back then, freaking everyone could read music lol). I think the main reason for redundant time signatures like these are because of this. It also allows a lot of flexibility when mixing time signatures, for example keeping the bottom number the same while changing the top number.
How easy is it to hear a difference between 3/4 (Waltz) and 6/8 (March) , of course adding in as he has done infil beats does go slightly different in the two time signatures. Of course throw triplets into 4/4 and goodness know where you end up, and does 4/4 have to have the stress on 1 and 3 ?
"We?" And speaking like you remember those days fondly, and with more than second-hand knowledge. What I'm getting at is you have to legally tell us if you are a vampire.
It's not any harder to notate, but it gives you more options for beaming to visually show where the beats are; how the measure should be subdivided. 4/4 is 4 beats and should be notated as such. If the music is 3+3+2 it makes more sense and is easier to read as 8/8 and beamed accordingly.
I like your argument and I'm not sure if my thought adds anything to it but maybe it's exenplifies: given you have a section with alternating time signatures of wich some are odd-number/8th and some others are 4/4, then it's definitely more consistent putting these in 8/8.
I’ve been playing the trap for ~ 15 years. Odd time signatures have always tripped me up. You explained them and demonstrated them with such ease and common sense, it made me feel stupid for not fully understanding. I am grateful that you made me feel stupid! Thanks, Cobb!
You just count until a pattern repeats, just pick a random pop song and you'll probably count 4 beats until the chord changes or maybe the drums repeat a pattern, it's all about patterns.
@@vinijoncrafts2882yeah but what does the bottom 4 mean. I know that when you count 1 2 3 4 theres actually also other spots outside of that, so isnt it actually 12 beats and then 4 accents? Does the bottom four in the time signature mean that you can fit 4 beats into one accent? So like for 6/4 it would be 1 2 3 4 5 6 but its still the same as 4/4 as in you can only go 1 and a 2 and a 3 and so on? Instead of like 1 and a a a a 2
Special case that I’ve observed 8/8 being more useful than 4/4 was when score transitioned frequently between 6/8 or 7/8. Visually and mentally the subdivision of 8/8 was easier to maintain in this case. Otherwise 4/4 would have felt like cut time.
I'm not a drummer at all (brass and woodwind) but I found this excellent. Thanks Cobb. The drummer is the only person who should explain time signatures, particularly the complex ones.
@@raperepublicanwomentheysee1786 Very true. Spoken as a rock bassist who joined a prog grunge band with a time wizard drummer. I've been forced to get good lol. Probably why this video was recommended.
@@raperepublicanwomentheysee1786 in my opinion, that's because bassists and drummers in bands often play directly off eachother ... ( the backbone, or simply the bones , if you will) and the guitars, keys, vocals etc. often play around them (kind of the muscles/tissue/nerves etc. surrounding the bones) 🤷♀️ it's how I've always viewed it when I'm playing with others lol ✋ wtf I just read your username . Lmfao wow 👏 brava
disagree: every musician should be aware of how time signatures articulate: go watch indian classical musicians, for example: talas perfect knowledge are prior to any rythmic playing (5x7=35 talas)
I actually made a composition where it follows this 3 + 5 pattern where it feels wonky to count with the usual 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + that 4/4 implies (since + implies that it's an offbeat weaker than the numbers, but in my case, the +'s feel equally as the beats 1-4, so it's easier to count in 8/8)
Dude how are you not a hundred million view TH-camr?! Your energy is absolutely PHENOMENAL! You very clearly know what you’re talking about, on top of being extremely concise and eloquent ON TOP of tangible passion for the craft. As another drummer, I could not be more glad to have stumbled across your channel!!!
This video is worthy of a re-edit with text overlays counting out the beats...where you have a string of numbers along the bottom of the screen and they light up as you play along with the beat. That would really help with the educational component. Cheers!
Money is compound meter. 7/4 or 7/8 are simple meter. In this case, the bottom number just changes the way you write it, it sounds the same. Compound you divide each beat by 3 (like triplets). Simple meter, by 2: 4/4 = 1e 2e 3e 4e 4/4 compound is 12/8 (the way you get it is multiplying the top number by 3 and the bottom by 2, 4x3=12 and 4x2=8, then you get the 12/8. Imagine blues, they are usually 12/8, meaning you count four, but each beat is divided by 3, so 1ee 2ee 3ee 4ee (Tears For Fears - Everybody Wants To Rule The World is 12/8) 6/8 is compound of 2/4, meaning you count 2 dividing each beat by 3, 1ee 2ee (Beatles - Oh! Darling is 6/8). It's different from 6/4, which is simple meter and you count 6 dividing by 2: 1e 2e 3e 4e 5e 6e (Soundgarden - Fell On Black Days is 6/4). So, a 7/4 (or 7/8, 7/16, whatever), is simple and you divide by 2, 1e 2e 3e 4e 5e 6e 7e (Seal - Dreaming In Metaphors is 7/4 - you find its music sheet in 7/8 because its the best way to write it, but it's not compound) Money is like a blues, but a 7 time blues, so you get that division by 3 of each beat. remember the formula, 7x3=21 and 4x2=8, so the compound version of 7/4 is 21/8. 1ee 2ee 3ee 4ee 5ee 6ee 7ee During the solo part it's 12/8 (4/4 compound).
God, I'm so happy that this was recommended to me. I honestly have trouble understand the count of anything that isn't 4/4 or any other even counts. I'm a bassist and guitarist and would love to actually play the drums well, but my feet-hands coordination is fucked. Back to the original point: an super easy to understand explanation followed by comprehensible examples of stuff that usually felt like learning Greek without a dictionary and boom, I can finally at least have a slight understanding of the subject. This is a really great video. Plus the BoJack reference and shout out to both John and Neil and I'm sold. Subscribing right now.
If I may make a suggestion, start off easy. Listen to a bunch of stuff in 3/4, 6/8 and 12/8. There's tons of songs out there in each. Count along while listening, don't worry if you miss a beat here and there, you'll get it quicker than you might think. Try Billy Joel's The Piano Man (3/4), Queen We Are The Champions (6/8) and Tears for Fears Everybody Wants to Rule the World (12/8) just for some starting suggestions. You can do it while cruising around in the car.
Really enjoy this video! While watching I realized a lot of Mother 3's music has drum beats with more uncommon time signatures, which is why it can be difficult to combo in-game. 13/16 has captivated me completely.
You are one of the most charismatic music TH-camrs I’ve seen. As a guitar player and chronic wannabe drummer (what musician isn’t?) this is a fantastic breakdown. I still can’t count The Crunge.
I have never heard polka and punk lumped together but 🤯 there you go. And you have described 2-2 in a way that makes more sense than I ever understood. It always seemed unnecessary due to 4-4 so I always kinda stumbled over it.
The similar construction of punk and polka songs explains how they can be melted so perfectly for bands like flogging molly and pixies. In fact there are a lot of Irish bands like that and it's all quite fascinating...they start out respectable enough and then you get a little booze in them (another common thread of both genres) and the shift takes place. I will leave it for each person to decide which is which 🍀😂💚😂💚😂🍀
Thank you young man. I’m 65 been in and around music all my life since 2nd grade. Drums, trumpet, guitar, bass guitar, harmonica and banjo.. It all came natural to me and playing this by ear was just “in there”. But, you’ve demonstrated this in a helpful way.
Despite all the comments about his "Wizard Hat", I actually enjoyed the video and learned about something I've only heard of but didn't know about. Thanks Cobb
I've seen orchestral pieces use 8/8 with much different feels than the 2-2-2-2 that you talk about. 3-2-3 and 2-3-3 are probably the best use cases, but dividing it into 8/8 (as opposed to 4/4) gives room for more fluidity between these drastically different feels
Dude it’s 2024 right now… I grew up up with just musicians (I’m a gun guy, I can only play the pump action lol) and it’s rare someone catches my attention when it comes to music. Some of my friends are world class… and regardless, you really got me to watch your entire video somehow… I love how you explain things. You make it very interesting.
The one time 8/8 works really well is with a 3 + 3 + 2 (or variation of that) accent pattern going on. 4/4 works great with the four-on-the-floor beat whereas 8/8 feels better when there's that segmented approach going on
OK so apparently I've heard Take Five, but just never knew it as "Take Five". It was always just kind of there. I still think the most famous 5/4 tune that EVERYBODY knows (but probably doesn't know is 5/4) is the original TV theme to *Mission: Impossible.* Am I nuts?
I could have used you as a teacher when I was trying to learn Jazz ,Fusion, and Prog Rock as a teen. My teachers tried, and wrote scores to early Genesis, King Krimson, Buddy Rich, Al Di Meola, Dave Weckl, Steve Gadd etc... although I was classically trained, I mostly learned by ear, no matter how hard I trained to read drum charts. I wanted to be a studio drummer. Even when I did eventually get those studio gigs, I had drum chart anxiety. If my teachers had taught me like you do, I likely would have felt more confident. I mostly memorized the song by hearing them play it, and faked it. It took my childhood piano teacher three years to realize I was playing by ear. That was a great lesson. ThanX
Nice job... I came across some extraordinary 5/4 and 9/8 rhythms while traveling in Turkey listening to their "Halk" style folk music. It originated centuries ago using traditional Tupan and Darbuka drums, but the introduction of modern trap set gear - the complexity is phenomenal to hear in live bands now. I found it jaw dropping. Where modern western tunes commonly (though not always) place odd signatures in just portions of a song to make for interesting transitions, these Persian/Turkish rooted variations build the entire song of odd timing and it's just mind blowing.
I prefer to call one of those Turkish time signatures, 4 and a half/4. Because it’s like a bar of 4/4 then a little stutter half beat, then 4/4 , half beat etc. But over 2 bars it is 9/8. But if you count 9, the second half of the count occurs on the up beat, but the music is on the down beat! And when the audience clap along it’s like “1, 2, 3, 4 huh, 1, 2, 3, 4 huh, ……”
Shall I do all the important things I need for my business that are backed up and growing? No. I'll sit here watching a kid I've never heard of in a wizard hat going on about time signatures. And I don't even play drums. Cheers brain. This is another fine mess you got me into.
I watched this whole video on 0.5 playback... not intentionally, my pc was playing up and I couldn't change the settings.. I recommend it though, really sunk in better I think! Excellent video, Cobb you are a character... much appreciated 🙏
What’s great about this is that he describes each signature in such a relatable way and makes me realise that I could actually use some of these now that I have more context
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1/1 00:50
2/2 01:19
3/4 02:00
4/4 02:28
5/4 02:53
6/8 03:33
7/4 03:47
8/8 04:58
9/8 05:32
10/4 06:42
11/2 07:24
12/8 08:54
13/16 10:03
14/8 11:02
7/8
You missed the Macedonian 7/8 :)
@@ackovski не може да ја удене 🤣
@@aleksandarmakedonski8282 ќе го научиме македонски, одма ќе го фати ритамот... :)))
Highlander?! McLeod lives! There could be only one!
Observations:
1. He is a wizard
2. He's helping us count time
Conclusion: he is a time wizard
maybe he's a pinball wizard
This needs more likes!!! 👍🏼
Subdivided...:you mean sudivisions...? In the high school halls,in the shopping malls?
Hey...yah...like all Native American music ever
awesome, he is the the clover kingdom king
Usually wizards don’t have 2 wands, he must be powerful
I have lots actually. Different uses. :)
I recommend everyone listen to Uriah Heep, The Wizard
That's Dungeon Master territory.
@@MaynardsSpaceship I hope u arent saying what I think ur saying
He’s definitely sayings what you think he’s saying
The fact that you got through an entire demonstration of time signatures without a single tool song is very impressive
all I ever think about when talking about odd signatures is tool 😭
or king gizzard !
@@salival. What about Rush?
Them too sometimes
Tool, the working class man's prog band.
For those who still don't understand time signatures, the top number indicates the number of beats in a bar and the bottom number indicates the length or emphasis of the beat. So although something like 7/4 might seem terrifying, it really just means there are 7 crotchets (quarter notes) in a bar. Sometimes a composer will pick a combo of simpler time signatures to help the player understand the emphasis better. Say the 7/4 bar was actually just a 4/4 followed by a 3/4 repeated. You might write it in 4/4 3/4 or in 7/4 with accents or other notiation so the player knows your intention. But with all music there really isn't any true rules. As long as you can convey to the player how it needs to be done, you can use any markings you see fit.
Omg, thank you! It finally makes sense. Great explanation.
Why I gave up piano once it got into all that. Did go to drums but played by ear……”yeah, good, sounds right, it’s ok.”
I just watched the Gene Krupa story. He did two awesome things: Rose to stardom as an ultra soloist and accompaniest then learned music 😊
I never knew drumming was this complicated. I have a new appreciation for drummers that can keep time. In the past I only focused on drum solos. 😁
thnx
This has the energy of 2012 TH-cam
I love it!
Best year ever
I had to triple check that this video wasn't 7-10 years old while watching it
😂😂😂
si
Drink, skate, wear wizard hats, advertise for knives, and teach people how to play the drums. You seem like a fun fella.
This is obviously Radagast
This is obviously Radagast
This is obviously Radagast
This is obviously Radagast
in this world you are either a fun fella or a fun fella
I've been saying Punk Rock is just Polka for years. So nice to hear someone else gets it.
Hmmm
Old school death metal is extreme polka
I’ve said the same thing about certain thrash metal songs. Makes sense since thrash is punk rock combined with New wave of English metal.
As a big punk fan, and also love polka/irish/folk/Celtic music, yes it's a spot on observation
I tried telling my parents this in high school. they didn't go for it, but a small part of me thinks they appreciated my academic approach to justifying my punkness.
a wizard who is trying to teach you drums but also wants you to buy a knife.
He just makes sure to help you being on the cutting edge of the job, haha
Damn 💀
He started off as a wizard but multiclassed into bard and rogue. Truly a powerful combo.
good rpg character
8/8 is specifically useful for when plying music that has dancing choreographed to it. Dancers always count to 8 so it’s no trouble using 8/8 time for drummers. It makes it much easier to work with each other
8/8 also is used in agrupations of 3 - 3 - 2
And 5 6 7 8!
they don't count in 8/8: they count by packs of eight beats in quarters, never in eights (spent my whole life playing for dance classes), easier to manage
@@kailin98 nonsense ?
@@frankfertier34 you can change the technical timing to adjust for that
This guy seems like a prog rock nerd who wouldn't be out of place in the 70s. I like him.
Agree. This is a 70s time machine very cool demo/ info.
PS: I'm getting some weird comments in my inbox that are then being deleted. Note: I'm not saying he IS a prog drummer, as in his signature style...I'm saying he seems like someone who is INTO prog rock in my retro 70's movie I'm casting him in inside my brain.
You're casting this guy in a 70's retro movie in your head - I'm gonna have to nope on that, I've spoken with the people and this is something we need in full production
I was hoping for Genesis Apocalypse in 9/8 from Supper's Ready.
geek but yes
A wise man said once - "if you stop counting like a dumb nerd, everything is in 4/4"
and I think thats beautiful
I am genuinely curious, is this somewhat true?^^
@@gabrielfestini yes, you could technically count everything in 4/4. But then you have so many parameters going on, especially if you play with a band. So it is just easier to count it in a different or "right" time signature
A wise man said once - "Ey ohne Scheiß, ich hab das Gefühl die Kerzen ziehen die Wärme ausm Raum"
This is where we trade theory for true musicality.
That man never had to transcribe music.
As a guitar/violin teacher for 40 years, everyone who plays ANY instrument should be REQUIRED to learn at least 1 year on the drums to understand this. So many great students lack timing, an understanding of time signatures, and both's overall importance. It's nearly impossible to take your musical talent to the next level without it. Great vid and thank you.
Self-taught drummer here. Been playing quite a while, but since I am a working man I lacked the time to really spend the time. Yet, I still play, and I play fairly well.
Long story short ... I always considered myself a 4/4 drummer. Ya know ... Rock drummer.
Well ... after watching this it turns out I am not just a 4/4 drummer. I can play lots of different time signatures. I just don't know how to count them.
Thanks man .... Made my day.
I just watched it today and I feel the same way
Same here 🤣
That means you feel it. Neil peart didn’t count he felt it
However many times it's been explained to me, I've never understood time signatures. But Cobb does a great job anyway LOL
Same with me.. Same as playing guitar..I dont read actual music I just do it..
this dude seems like the chill upperclassmen that helps all the freshmen during marching season
Muhammad Avdol!
@@Rio_1111 YES! I am!
It feels good being your 1000th like... Oddly satisfying lol
One upperclassman helps. Many upperclassmen *help. Carry on.
JD Salinger presents:
Time Signatures: What Do They Know? Do They Know Things?? Let’s Find Out!
lol i was thinking exact same thing
Erica! You can't be here, this place is filled with children
What's this? A crossover episode??
I knew I wasn't the only one lmao
You're a legend
This video is a godsend! Nevermind me leaving these timestamps here for future reference.
0:51 1/1
1:19 2/2
2:00 3/4
2:28 4/4
2:57 5/4
3:34 6/8
3:49 7/4
4:59 8/8
5:33 9/8
6:44 10/4
7:24 11/2
8:57 12/8
10:03 13/16
11:02 14/8
He left timestamps in the description, but thank you anyhow! 👍
@@michaelcoletta4547 I feel dumb, I never thought to check the description. 🤦🏻😂
"Remember that Jazz song that was played in an odd time signature?"
"Yes, 4/4."
I think you mean 5/4.
@@DJIncendration i think he means that there are so many jazz songs with odd time signatures that the normal (4/4) becomes odd
@@DJIncendration r/woooosh
Most jazz is in 4/4
@@DJIncendrationr/whoooosh
Man you are class. I'm 40 this year, playing drums for years and I find your break down of time signatures compiled in this way so helpful. Relating the signatures to songs is the master stroke. Never to old to learn. Thanks a million dude.
Almost 40 but still don't understand the difference between to and too 🤷🏻♂️
@@kevin_nagle give it a rest man
@@kevin_nagle Where is your comma? Your punctuation? You're better than this Kevin! Lol!
@@chrismahermusic5142 it's all just bustin balls with us 40 year olds 😆
@@chrismahermusic5142 take me to xhurch I'll worship like a dog at the shrine of your lies I'll tell u my sins and you can sharpen your knife offer me that deathless death oh good God let me give you my life
Pls critique my voice I have start 2 sing and I think I m singing quite well I post my sing to this comment pls give honest rate thank u
cant wait for this to be 12 years old with millions of views
You'll literally have to wait for 12 years
I can't wait that long. Gunna do something else.
Nearly a million already
@@generallygrateful1952 That's 378 million seconds.
60x60x24x365x12 = 378,432,000.
cant wait for this comment to be 12 years old
man I am stoned and was thinking about time signatures, realized I wasn't 100% on the concept, so off to the internet I went and so many other vids literally just spent 10 minutes talking about it with ZERO examples; finally I find your vid and you come thru with actual examples from music. My man!!! My absolute guy!!! Thank you!!!
What a deja vu. That is EXCATLY my story. Except for I’m also eating Doritos and getting crumbs all over by brand new Roland kit
@@jimlahey3919I've been playing Drums on and off for 39 years mostly self taught with a lesson here and there and I actually got lucky on some of it but I was always a Led Zeppelin fan. Not so much a Tool fan. But all these different time signatures. WOW. It really opened up my mind. The 4/4 really is a regular ol time signature but it has so many uses. Bernard Purdy and John Bonham have always put me in some kind of trance. And Niel Peart 😊
obsessed with how easily and quickly this guy helped me understand a concept that made literally zero sense to me before
You know, it's crazy. Maybe it's because I was always musically inclined, but I always found myself counting beats, looking for the downbeat, which is how I unofficially learned meter. Lol
I appreciate this video trying to teach me, but I just can't hear it. I suck.
It's good stuff. When you really break it down it's just fractions. I always tried to explain time signatures to students as (how many)/(what kind). How many beats is the top number, what kind of beat is the bottom number. And just like fractions, the stuff that maths out the same can kinda be inter changeable depending on how you are feeling it. So 1/1, 2/2, 4/4, 3/4 and 6/8, etc.
@@Sophistry0001 very interesting
@@ElderCM You'll get it eventually. No rush...
Drumming, much like life, is all about timing and pace.
To go further:
-15/8 = The Ocean by Led Zeppelin
-16/8 = Tubular Bells by Mike Oldfield (alternates with 14/8)
-17/8 = Open Car by Porcupine Tree
-18/8 = Birds Of Fire by Mahavishnu Orchestra
-19/8 = Home by Dream Theater
-20/8 = Gibbon by TTNG
-21/8 = 7empest by Tool
-22/8 = The First Circle by The Pat Metheny Group
-23/8 = Surgical Strike by Queensrÿche
-24/8 = Lateralus by Tool
-25/8 = How's This For Openers? by Don Ellis
-26/8 = Here Comes The Sun by The Beatles (this one surprised the Hell out of me, but it's there!)
-27/8 = Witches Promise by Jethro Tull
-28/8 = Octavarium by Dream Theater
-29/8 = March Of The Pigs by Nine Inch Nails
...Not going any further, though there are some monsters out there. Could some of these be interpreted as split measures with combinations of different time signatures? Of course. But if they repeat at least twice in that same combination, it isn't too unreasonable to combine them to simplify the writing, at least enough to make this list.
Tubular bells is 15/8 (really it’s an 8/8 and a 7/8)
Aye Tool made it twice wassup
@@chelfyn That's actually a big misconception due to the confusion between the denominator and the beat.
Firstly though, let me amend my comment as I meant to say that it was a combination of 14/8 (not 7/8) and 16/8, which if you combined would be 30/8, or rather simplified to 15/4. That's where the confusion comes in. The piano rhythm is quite fast so it wouldn't make sense for each quarter note value to be 2 notes each, making each note an 8th note. As a result, the first half of the riff is 14 8th notes and the second half is 16, hence why I said it alternates between them. If we called it 15/8, then that would mean every quarter note value had 4 notes and it would be slower than walking speed, especially for a riff at that speed.
Faster notes generally should be attributed to a faster beat, and the denominator of the time signature should represent the beat value. It's like the 7/4 vs 7/8 argument. An example of 7/4 is Money by Pink Floyd because the quarter note is the recognised drum beat and translates when it switches to 4/4 in the guitar solo. An example of 7/8 is Tom Sawyer by Rush where the exact opposite happens. The main beat is a slower 4/4 but switches to 7/8 during the synth and guitar solo section, translating that quarter note feel where it feels like 4/4 but missing an 8th note.
To sum it up, it's more accurate or at least simpler to say that Tubular Bells is a combination of 14/8 + 16/8, or at best 15/4 if you truly wanted to condense it all to one measure. 15/8 implies that it's much slower than it is. The speed is about the same as the 7/8 section in Tom Sawyer, and thus if considered 15/8, would make the beat the same pace as the verses of Tom Sawyer, which it definitely isn't.
Another 15/8 one I believe is the intro and outro of I Think I Lost My Headache by Queens of the Stone Age
I personally think that feeling very whacky time signatures is much easier when you split them up, especially when the down beat falls in specfic places in between the larger time signature. For example, the main riff in Lateralus by Tool not only is written, but also is better felt as 9/8, 8/8, 7/8. This was actually how the riff was meant to be written and felt, since Adam Jones said the song was going to be called 9-8-7 and he realised that 987 was a fibonaccian number - hence why there are multiple references to the fibonacci sequence in the song.
It may be easier to write out on paper as a combination of the smaller time signatures, but I think that reading and particularly feeling these types of songs makes more sense to write them as changing time signatures. However this does also depend on where the downbeat falls. Another example you've given is 7empest (sorry to use Tool again I do listen to other bands I swear lol), and here you would have a hard time counting all the way to 21 before starting a new bar. I would count this as 10/8 (some would say 5/4) and 11/8 changing, since it is obvious where the downbeat falls. (7empest can also be counted as 3 sets of 7/8 is you're a nutter)
Hope this makes sense :)
For anyone looking for rock songs in the rare 13/16 time signature, Firth of Fifth by Genesis along with the equally rare 15/16 . Phil Collins catches a lot of flak for going commercial, but he was an excellent drummer.
Phils 70s genesis drumming is some of the best ever
Saw Genesis in 1984, they had two drummers. Phil Collins and the other drummer did a drum solo duel/duet that was the coldest shit I've ever seen live.
the song dance on a volcano by genesis has some odd stuff in it as well.
Huh neat
And then you hear Phil Collins' work on Brand X
8/8 is generally for mixed meters like 3+3+2, it’s not super common but sometimes fits the music just a bit better
Was gonna leave this comment. Two triplets followed by a duplet is way easier to read in 8/8 imo.
@@MrButterInaCan yeah the way of writing them as mixed meters is like it was designed to look as confusing as possible
I totally agree!!!
I never imagined Hogwarts teaches music now.
The disrespect to professor flitwick
@@cai2727 True. Professor Flitwick be the reason for the ballroom dance music
Swish and flick
That bard magic you know
Music is a type of magic you know
After dozens of explanations, I've never understood time signatures and I still don't. But I loved watching this.
Played guitar for 25 years.
Mediocre drummer at best.
I definitely can't wrap my head around what he's telling me.
It just strikes me as, " just follow the drummer. "
they're for playing, reading, and understanding music. they don't make a huge difference when listening to music, tho. essentially just gives you a vague idea of how to count and play a piece. such as 3/4 taking a slower, more elegant tone compared to 2/2 being faster and more exciting. they also tell you when a downbeat is. they aren't the most essential when it comes to easier pieces, but they make such a big difference in more complex pieces with how much easier they make it to understand
tl;dr: they're to make sharing music between people easier
idk if its what you wanted but if i ever want to find a time signature, i tap along to the beat and it comes naturally, thinking too hard about it makes it more difficult imo
@@justandardprocedure On your keyboard hit shift + < and slow it down.
@@cowboybob7093 thanks Cowboy Bob. The only one I understand is 3/4 time the Walt's
Ok so apparently Michael Reeves drums now and not surprisingly he's really good
was looking for this comment!
I was almost convinced but there was no cursing
@@palmeraniian good
8/8 and 16/16 is useful for understanding changing time signatures in certain songs. Dance of eternity has a section with changing 16 times with the odd bar of 16/16 because its easier to digest in that context rather than seeing 4/4 written between a bar of 11/16 and 13/16.
I've never seen this guy before, but the way he explains stuff combined with how he talks with more physical gusto than an Italian is really effective and endearing.
I got lost after 6/8, but continued watching just because da wizard is entertaining
I agree. I’ve never played the drums a day in my life, and this dude might as well be speaking a foreign language, but I too kept watching because da wizard is entertaining. 🍻
Apex legend mirage
i wasn't and i'm 10.. mabye because i'm a drummer lol
thats literally the easiest fucking thing there
The last two rhythms have broken my mind. And I refer to physical pain, how can drummers dominate that beasts? e_e
I really thought the sponsorship was a parody... Well, I now own a knife.
Haha
lmaoo
😊
ikr? His delivery was stellar. Most good advert/endorsement I see on youtube relies heavily on text or editting, but this guy was more convincing in his acting.
@@thecoreybrown why does haha translate to lol lol
I have a story I would like to share. I played drums in a cover band all through high school and when it came time to go to college I said ok I will major in music. The first day of music theory I knew it was a bad decision. I could not read music and had not a clue. I took drums and I thought ok I can do this. Again I could not read music the band director gave us sheet music for drums the first day. There was only one other student in the class besides me. I always let him play first and just repeated what I heard him play. It did not take long to change majors. I was the type of drummer I could listen to a song and repeat what I heard I was ok but not like you man. Enjoyed your video you are very knowledgable and a great drummer.
You can play be ear. You're in good company (e.g., Lennon and McCartney).
The bojack horseman reference at the start caught me off guard, a man of culture.
I was just browsing & wasn’t even really gonna watch this video, but that intro totally sold me!
what is this, a crossover episode?
@@dissonantdreams same
I've titled a work presentation in that format before :D
Fr it had me thinking I was watching bojack horseman for a split second
as somebody who has no interest in learning an instrument or any music, this was fantastic
Nice
Right. Save urself the trouble. Playing an instrument is like being in a relationship. One relationship alone is hard enough to maintain.
So for any novices out there heed my wise advice, & choose one or the other. If I had known how much time both relationships involve when I was younger I woulda chosen only the guitar.
Choose wisely my friends:D
I feel like I've stumbled upon an alternate reality in which Michael Reeves got into drumming rather than programming.
I much prefer this universe.
where drumming, instead of coding, has saved him from falling into crumbling self destructive & degenerate tendencies
@@koaladelespace It must be all that Monster
This Michael Reeves would make the kind of chaotic videos like 'I made my roommate's glasses break by drumming to the right frequency'
If in this universe Lily actually talk through her mouth instead of talking nasally, i'm in.
The amazing thing about rush is how they disguise odd time signatures. Usually bands will emphasize odd time signatures to show off, but to me the best bands can make you nod your head along and you won’t know that it’s something jazzy
Pianist here, whenever I feel the piece I'm playing is hard, I rewatch this video and remember to be thankful I'm not a dummer.
I'm a pianist too and the time signature applies to us as well, the real challenge is the off time signatures in jazz and progressive rock (:
I recommend Bartok to learn to count in different time signatures as a pianist.
You guys have pitch to worry about though and that's confusing to me still.
Still better than clef changes
@@gageharden1423 Nah, for pianists pitch isn't a concern. Press the key and you get a fixed pitch. For other instruments (or voice) getting pitch and intonation correct can be very tricky.
I like how the title says "exposed" as if all these time signatures have been the subject of conspiracies or like they need to be debunked...
I personally have a sneaking suspicion that Big Time Rush is withholding the secret of 19/37 timing...
Sorry I would like, but it's at 69.
@@eric8764 not anymore
@@23Bandz_ You like watching civilisation burn 😭
FOR REEEALS lmao
This man got the shittiest cymbals Zildjian ever made and you'd never know it just by listening. Great musicians, as seen here, don't need the best or most expensive gear to sound good. Great video!
Ah yes... but the beads and the aged secret Zildjian alloy make it all the better . 😏
I suspect Hendrix would sound like Hendrix on any guitar....the music comes from the musician.
@@johnbemery7922 lol, well yes to an extent, maybe. But the tone of the instrument also makes a huge difference. Think Pantera, or Van Halen. They have very distinct guitar tone, and in fact EVH is kinda famous for that tone, which is why the 5150 and Peavy 6505 are so iconic in rock and, particularly, metal.
Same can be true in drums: low quality cymbals or drum shells can put off harsh, unpleasant, and annoying frequencies (like the Zildjian ZBT cymbals do, in my opinion). But of course great musicians and audio engineers may be able to work around or mitigate such shortcomings.
But I'm rambling at this point.
Speaking of Hendrix. By stringing his guitar upside down, he had some modifications issues affecting intonation. To make up for it he detuned every string a semitone. Plus he played EXTREMELY "loose" aka expressive or trance like.
All 3 of these things are as unconventional as it gets!!! & yet he sounded incredible.
So his strings were backwards. They were also out of proper tune, & he played way too loose which caused him to make lots of mistakes, but this genius & master of a guitar player made it all incredibly unnoticeable.
But didn't Jimi play a right handed guitar just flipped around to lefty,so the strings where just the same if you flipped them to right so no restringing!
8/8 is useful when you format it as an odd time signature (such as 3+3+2) and you want the 8th notes grouped in that specific way. An example of this is Frank Ticheli's "Vesuvius" which has 7 measures of 8/8 somewhere in the beginning of the song.
3+3+2 is extremely common in 4/4 music
No Quarter by Led Zeppelin and Times Like These by Foo Fighters are 8/8
Anyone who manages to make good music out of 1/1 is a goddamn genius
Very slow tempo only use sixteenth notes
Very fast tempo slow down time to make note last longer
mh, that's an interesting point. I ain't no expert on this, but this thought immediatly came to mind: could some drone music be counted on 1/1? cause if so there's plenty of great 1/1 tracks out there!
Technically you could do any song in 1/1 if your conductor is willing to give you enough downbeats lmao
You're right! 😆🤣
Alternate title: "How to prog and actually have any idea of what you're doing"
to write prog you actually roll the dice and pick numbers. then just randomly switch it
Lmao
Prog was probably invented when a guys record player was skipping and he said "huh that sounds cool"
Gotta love prog
@@brenjmorris yea same
This settles it: Outkast is a prog band.
remember when the academy in charge of the grammys renamed the “urban contemporary” category to “progressive r&b”? yeah, this
Andre has been known to bust out in some wild theremin solos during practice sessions (but not really)
Outcast - Abysmal
They’re D-Beat OBVIOUSLY
Always has been
As a knifemaker and a drummer, I love how u talk about swords and knives, and then go right to drumming.🤙❤️
Thank you for explaining that Outkast song
I honestly never thought of it as anything more than a standard time signature
@Bad_Script Yep , that is how I counted it . The first time I played it I had never heard it and was doing a walk in with a covers band at a wedding ... The bass player was also a drummer and conducted the ONE TWO when it came around then went back to singing ... All made sense after that
@@weehudyy That is correct, harkens back to the drama on tiktok if it was in 11 or 4/2 alternating. It's the 4/2 as someone who has seen it notated for pep band tunes
@@bakerfam1000 Used a lot in country music . Townes Van Zant's ' Pancho and Leftie ... Bob Dylan slips in the bar of two four every now and then ... Then there is the mid section weirdness of King Crimson's Starless ... 13/8 , but break it into two bars of 3/4 two of 2/4 and another of 3/4 ( 1-2-3 , 2-2-3 , 1-2 , 1-2 , 1-2-3 ) and away ya go .
Love you Eric !!
watched this as a pianist and still enjoyed every single second of it. unfortunately I'm not a jazz pianist so I have much less experience with odd time signatures but it is truly refreshing to listen to all these beats and song examples. thank you.
Massive props for the NIN shoutout. Trent writes a lot of his music in odd time signatures and people often don't notice because he uses so many sound layers.
And not just March Of The Pigs either!
Great video
As someone who has played drums since 2001, I really appreciated how quickly you went through everything and how well you explained it. Unfortunately, in my band I am the principal songwriter and often have to focus in on non-drum things, so it is always nice to have a moment to only focus in on playing the drums. Great explanations! Thanks!
Without a doubt, the best, most understandable and accurately performed demonstration of music time. Great job!
Literally
I don't care if this feels young or old.
It is a superb demonstration. How many of the critics can count and APPLY all of these signatures?
As a veteran of music academia I can definitely say that this would be a fantastic lecture in first semester music theory.
Great content.
Cheers!
We’re not being critical; we’re just observing that this content feels like it’s from a different era of TH-cam.
@@NoTraceOfSense Fact.
#KevinCrabbDrums
@@NoTraceOfSense and its a good vibe
@@charlablevins474 and Kevin Paradis too. He's another incredible drummer.
" A Wizard is never LATE!! ....Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to! "
best comment ever
One would say, he’s always in time
xD
A wizard is never rushing, nor is he dragging. He in precisely the time he means to.
no wonder drummers are always late for practice
I remember years ago seeing Ian Paice on a TV show talking about the 7/4 beat, and saying the way he remembered, or counted it, was by thinking of the old Italian actress ... Gina Lollobrigida. I'm not a drummer, but I thought it was a cute way of counting the beat, and still remember it. Paicey was a fantastic drummer too. I was lucky enough to see him play, when the Deep Purple Mk II line up reformed, which is definitely before you were born. Sigh, I'm old.
I love that you used the term “subdivided” during the Rush section.
Be cool or be cast out!
Subdivisions; Classic!
I like this video. He's not detached, and subdivided, in the mass-production zone.
"polka, or punk rock"
Oh boy will you love the dreadnoughts.
Polka never dies amirite
I love when punk gets fused into genres/styles you wouldn't normally find it. Flogging Molly (folk) and Gogol Bordello (gypsy/polka) are a couple bands that fit that spectrum that I enjoy a lot.
@@jery3385 my son is 8 and is a drummer in a local polka band. He plays bass and snare.
@@joshsimmons2663 damn, at such an early age? That's great!
@@jery3385 been playing since he was 5. Plays the piano, accordian, tuba and trumpet as well
The 12/8 shuffle must be the beat on Fool in the Rain.
yes it is, it's also Jeff Porcaro's Rosanna (Toto) shuffle
@@majeutycah Porcaro has a vid where he says he took both the purdie shuffle and fool in the rain and came up with the Rosanna groove.
For some reason I thought he was gonna modulate
Tool
There's a good Spotify playlist with songs that feature the Purdie Shuffle, and there are a few not on there like King Gizzard's Beginner's Luck or Ben Jones' remix of Latch...
I am not a drummer but I do play other instruments and this really helped me understand time signatures and how to count them properly. Thank you.
Dude whatever you did to TH-cam, it has been recommending me this video like a freak...finally caved and watched today.good job
SAME HERE. I've had this recommended like 20 times a day. I finally am watching it right now. Lol.
Lol same
His "Hey ya" singing in a wizard hat magic lured me in as well. I resisted for like a week, but here I am. With no regrets.
@@jojoversus1100 same
TH-cams been listening to us rehearse and they're like "PLEASE watch this video, for the love of god"
8/8 is super useful when something has frequent mixed meter feeling changes, so you can do 3+3+2, 2+3+3, or 3+2+3 (especially if part of the ensemble is doing mixed meter and the rest is playing in straight 4). This way the time signature stays the same so it’s more straightforward for the performers.
Frank Ticheli uses this through the piece Postcard.
This is actually the first time I understood why you'd need 8/8, thanks
Came here to comment this. Could also apply to 9/8 which the zep example shows.
Mixed meters could also be a reason to use 10/4 in place of 5/4, 12/8 instead of 6/8, etc. Of course the "feel" of the beat could also be a valid reason, for example some songs just feel better as 12/8 rather than 6/8. You can't explain it but it just feels right. Feel is a good enough justification for any notation decision in my opinion.
Thanks for that breakdown. I was going to comment about how I had always thought 8/8 & 4/4 were similar but with a different feel. I said that to my band’s drummer last year and she snapped, “No, it’s not!”
8/8 it's the time signature for salsa and for tango.
"In Polka or Punk Rock" *Bass Snare Bass Snare* Polka is Polish punk music lol.
And Oompa and Tejano.
Our grandparents were secret punk rockers.
but polka is czech
I like to think of punk as neo Detroit polka.
A lot of bluegrass and older country is the same. -Bassist. 1-5-1-5-1-5-1.... In bluegrass rather than bass snare it's normally, Bass, Mandolin, Bass mandolin.
That 13/16 groove is now my favorite odd groove, there's such a smooth flow and not clunky like other signatures may be.
Take Five is pretty smooth
Back when music was only on paper or played live, the actual "song" WAS the sheet music. So, there were ways to make your sheet music look fancier (one reason why notation is often quite elegant, I'm sure) and we took it a step further by being able to change time signatures to sort of reflect the feel of the music just by looking at the score. If you wanted to write a song that was super frilly and airy and light, you could use 2/2 and there would be lines and empty circles all over the place, most of your notes would be whole notes making the sheet music easy on the eyes; alternatively, if you wanted your song to be bold and powerful and loud, you could use 8/8, or perhaps even 12/8 and there would be 8th notes and 16th notes and 32nd notes all over the place making the sheet music dark and crowded. This way it was easier to tell what kind of song it might be just by looking at it, even at a distance (I'd say "or to a layman", but back then, freaking everyone could read music lol).
I think the main reason for redundant time signatures like these are because of this. It also allows a lot of flexibility when mixing time signatures, for example keeping the bottom number the same while changing the top number.
Slow down Eddy! You can't just be throwing around the "redundant" word willy-nilly . . .
How easy is it to hear a difference between 3/4 (Waltz) and 6/8 (March) , of course adding in as he has done infil beats does go slightly different in the two time signatures. Of course throw triplets into 4/4 and goodness know where you end up, and does 4/4 have to have the stress on 1 and 3 ?
"We?" And speaking like you remember those days fondly, and with more than second-hand knowledge. What I'm getting at is you have to legally tell us if you are a vampire.
'Dark and crowded'
The very reason Zappa called Terry Bozzios feature piece 'The Black Page'
It was COVERED with notes.
Very well said
8/8 gives the piece more room for rhythmic claves: you can do 3+3+2, 3+2+3, 2+3+3
you can do the same in 4/4 but it's harder to notate
This is exactly what I came down here to say
The notation wouldn't be harder. I feel like it's almost entirely a matter of how the computer wants the players to subdivide the music
It's not any harder to notate, but it gives you more options for beaming to visually show where the beats are; how the measure should be subdivided. 4/4 is 4 beats and should be notated as such. If the music is 3+3+2 it makes more sense and is easier to read as 8/8 and beamed accordingly.
I like your argument and I'm not sure if my thought adds anything to it but maybe it's exenplifies: given you have a section with alternating time signatures of wich some are odd-number/8th and some others are 4/4, then it's definitely more consistent putting these in 8/8.
I’ve been playing the trap for ~ 15 years. Odd time signatures have always tripped me up. You explained them and demonstrated them with such ease and common sense, it made me feel stupid for not fully understanding. I am grateful that you made me feel stupid! Thanks, Cobb!
Still dont get it
Lmao 💀
Just count
You just count until a pattern repeats, just pick a random pop song and you'll probably count 4 beats until the chord changes or maybe the drums repeat a pattern, it's all about patterns.
This video sucks
@@vinijoncrafts2882yeah but what does the bottom 4 mean. I know that when you count 1 2 3 4 theres actually also other spots outside of that, so isnt it actually 12 beats and then 4 accents? Does the bottom four in the time signature mean that you can fit 4 beats into one accent? So like for 6/4 it would be 1 2 3 4 5 6 but its still the same as 4/4 as in you can only go 1 and a 2 and a 3 and so on? Instead of like 1 and a a a a 2
Special case that I’ve observed 8/8 being more useful than 4/4 was when score transitioned frequently between 6/8 or 7/8. Visually and mentally the subdivision of 8/8 was easier to maintain in this case. Otherwise 4/4 would have felt like cut time.
Omg dude I just made this comment about a song I wrote doing exactly this that I recently posted on my channel 😂🤣😂
I was gonna say this. My favorite song shifts from 9/8 to 8/8 to 7/8 so counting 4/4 in the middle would throw me off
i wonder which tool song that is........
@@SidV101lateralus
It's lateralus
I'm not a drummer at all (brass and woodwind) but I found this excellent. Thanks Cobb. The drummer is the only person who should explain time signatures, particularly the complex ones.
Bassists are actually very adept time wizards too. Well, at least non-rock ones.
@@raperepublicanwomentheysee1786 Very true. Spoken as a rock bassist who joined a prog grunge band with a time wizard drummer. I've been forced to get good lol. Probably why this video was recommended.
@@raperepublicanwomentheysee1786 in my opinion, that's because bassists and drummers in bands often play directly off eachother ... ( the backbone, or simply the bones , if you will) and the guitars, keys, vocals etc. often play around them (kind of the muscles/tissue/nerves etc. surrounding the bones)
🤷♀️ it's how I've always viewed it when I'm playing with others lol
✋ wtf I just read your username . Lmfao wow 👏 brava
disagree: every musician should be aware of how time signatures articulate: go watch indian classical musicians, for example: talas perfect knowledge are prior to any rythmic playing (5x7=35 talas)
You could sub-divide 8/8 by a 5 and a 3 if you really wanted to!
That’s a great point! Also in my “Odd Time Signatures in Beatles songs” video I explain how I discovered a measure of 8/8 in the song Yer Blues! 😅
I believe that the Great Dying by the Ocean is notated in alternating measures of 5/4 and 3/4, it could be in 8/4 or 8/8
I actually made a composition where it follows this 3 + 5 pattern where it feels wonky to count with the usual 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + that 4/4 implies (since + implies that it's an offbeat weaker than the numbers, but in my case, the +'s feel equally as the beats 1-4, so it's easier to count in 8/8)
you could also do 3+3+2
I've always wondered about this, because the song Upstairs by the band Women uses this exact same method of counting 3 + 5 to make 8/8!
Dude how are you not a hundred million view TH-camr?! Your energy is absolutely PHENOMENAL! You very clearly know what you’re talking about, on top of being extremely concise and eloquent ON TOP of tangible passion for the craft. As another drummer, I could not be more glad to have stumbled across your channel!!!
This video is worthy of a re-edit with text overlays counting out the beats...where you have a string of numbers along the bottom of the screen and they light up as you play along with the beat. That would really help with the educational component. Cheers!
Agreed!
Agreed
That would be cool, because I still don't get the counting for why a beat is this or that and I was expecting to find out that effortlessly
Agreed
The most famous 7/4 song would be Pink Floyd's "Money."
@@citrus7115 No, Money is in 7/4, not 7/8.
Definitely
Or Blackened by Metallica
21/8
Money is compound meter. 7/4 or 7/8 are simple meter. In this case, the bottom number just changes the way you write it, it sounds the same.
Compound you divide each beat by 3 (like triplets). Simple meter, by 2:
4/4 = 1e 2e 3e 4e
4/4 compound is 12/8 (the way you get it is multiplying the top number by 3 and the bottom by 2, 4x3=12 and 4x2=8, then you get the 12/8. Imagine blues, they are usually 12/8, meaning you count four, but each beat is divided by 3, so
1ee 2ee 3ee 4ee (Tears For Fears - Everybody Wants To Rule The World is 12/8)
6/8 is compound of 2/4, meaning you count 2 dividing each beat by 3, 1ee 2ee (Beatles - Oh! Darling is 6/8). It's different from 6/4, which is simple meter and you count 6 dividing by 2: 1e 2e 3e 4e 5e 6e (Soundgarden - Fell On Black Days is 6/4).
So, a 7/4 (or 7/8, 7/16, whatever), is simple and you divide by 2, 1e 2e 3e 4e 5e 6e 7e (Seal - Dreaming In Metaphors is 7/4 - you find its music sheet in 7/8 because its the best way to write it, but it's not compound)
Money is like a blues, but a 7 time blues, so you get that division by 3 of each beat. remember the formula, 7x3=21 and 4x2=8, so the compound version of 7/4 is 21/8. 1ee 2ee 3ee 4ee 5ee 6ee 7ee
During the solo part it's 12/8 (4/4 compound).
“ What every guitarist always wanted to understand.”
Lmao ain't that the truth and it's what made watch this because I'm one of those "guitarists".
I gave up 3 minutes in lol
what every guitarrist should understand if he is in a band
Guilty as charged, didn’t use a metronome but people so far didn’t mention anything about my timing in my TH-cam music vids
Dude, you're a legend. It's truly a skill to show something like this and make it make sense (not to mention relevant) for many. Kudos!
God, I'm so happy that this was recommended to me. I honestly have trouble understand the count of anything that isn't 4/4 or any other even counts. I'm a bassist and guitarist and would love to actually play the drums well, but my feet-hands coordination is fucked.
Back to the original point: an super easy to understand explanation followed by comprehensible examples of stuff that usually felt like learning Greek without a dictionary and boom, I can finally at least have a slight understanding of the subject. This is a really great video. Plus the BoJack reference and shout out to both John and Neil and I'm sold.
Subscribing right now.
If I may make a suggestion, start off easy. Listen to a bunch of stuff in 3/4, 6/8 and 12/8. There's tons of songs out there in each. Count along while listening, don't worry if you miss a beat here and there, you'll get it quicker than you might think. Try Billy Joel's The Piano Man (3/4), Queen We Are The Champions (6/8) and Tears for Fears Everybody Wants to Rule the World (12/8) just for some starting suggestions. You can do it while cruising around in the car.
Really enjoy this video! While watching I realized a lot of Mother 3's music has drum beats with more uncommon time signatures, which is why it can be difficult to combo in-game. 13/16 has captivated me completely.
He actually made a video on Masked Man’s Theme from Mother 3! It’s a good one th-cam.com/video/PQapCR1ksC0/w-d-xo.html
The song for the first masked man battle is in approximately 29/16. I’ve never gotten a 16 hit on it before
You are one of the most charismatic music TH-camrs I’ve seen. As a guitar player and chronic wannabe drummer (what musician isn’t?) this is a fantastic breakdown.
I still can’t count The Crunge.
I have never heard polka and punk lumped together but 🤯 there you go. And you have described 2-2 in a way that makes more sense than I ever understood. It always seemed unnecessary due to 4-4 so I always kinda stumbled over it.
The similar construction of punk and polka songs explains how they can be melted so perfectly for bands like flogging molly and pixies. In fact there are a lot of Irish bands like that and it's all quite fascinating...they start out respectable enough and then you get a little booze in them (another common thread of both genres) and the shift takes place. I will leave it for each person to decide which is which 🍀😂💚😂💚😂🍀
Harry Potter is a solid musician. A wizard you might say.
lol
Yer a drummer Harry!
Thank you young man. I’m 65 been in and around music all my life since 2nd grade. Drums, trumpet, guitar, bass guitar, harmonica and banjo.. It all came natural to me and playing this by ear was just “in there”. But, you’ve demonstrated this in a helpful way.
Despite all the comments about his "Wizard Hat", I actually enjoyed the video and learned about something I've only heard of but didn't know about. Thanks Cobb
Gojira: hold our 45/4
Lars: hold my drum sticks, I'm out.
this whole thread is legendary
@@zxa402 kek
@@zxa402 so true! 😂
Porcupine Tree: Hold our pi/78
I could never figure out why "Hey Ya" was so weird. Thanks!!
It's weird because there's a bar of 2/4. To think 11/2 is ridiculous SMH
I love how his composure falls apart once he gets to 6/8.
Relatable.
Not only dude has great drumming skills but also never lost that mewing streak.
I've seen orchestral pieces use 8/8 with much different feels than the 2-2-2-2 that you talk about. 3-2-3 and 2-3-3 are probably the best use cases, but dividing it into 8/8 (as opposed to 4/4) gives room for more fluidity between these drastically different feels
You broke this down so much easier than any music teacher I've ever had
Loved that “Hollywoo stars and celebrities what do they know? Do they know things? Let’s find out“ intro
Dude it’s 2024 right now… I grew up up with just musicians (I’m a gun guy, I can only play the pump action lol) and it’s rare someone catches my attention when it comes to music. Some of my friends are world class… and regardless, you really got me to watch your entire video somehow… I love how you explain things. You make it very interesting.
The one time 8/8 works really well is with a 3 + 3 + 2 (or variation of that) accent pattern going on. 4/4 works great with the four-on-the-floor beat whereas 8/8 feels better when there's that segmented approach going on
Boy you just blow my mind with that Outkast odd signature.
Yeah seriously, made perfect sense though 👏🏼😍
You can’t talk about 5/4 without mentioning Take Five. It’s like a rule.
Also Mission Impossible
Or the Gorillaz song 5/4.
Or Radiohead - 15 Step
OK so apparently I've heard Take Five, but just never knew it as "Take Five". It was always just kind of there. I still think the most famous 5/4 tune that EVERYBODY knows (but probably doesn't know is 5/4) is the original TV theme to *Mission: Impossible.* Am I nuts?
Or Watermelon in Easter Hay
I'm a guitar player with mediocre understanding of time signatures. I've added this video to my favorites because it gave me more insight.
I could have used you as a teacher when I was trying to learn Jazz ,Fusion, and Prog Rock as a teen. My teachers tried, and wrote scores to early Genesis, King Krimson, Buddy Rich, Al Di Meola, Dave Weckl, Steve Gadd etc... although I was classically trained, I mostly learned by ear, no matter how hard I trained to read drum charts. I wanted to be a studio drummer. Even when I did eventually get those studio gigs, I had drum chart anxiety. If my teachers had taught me like you do, I likely would have felt more confident. I mostly memorized the song by hearing them play it, and faked it. It took my childhood piano teacher three years to realize I was playing by ear. That was a great lesson. ThanX
Nice job... I came across some extraordinary 5/4 and 9/8 rhythms while traveling in Turkey listening to their "Halk" style folk music. It originated centuries ago using traditional Tupan and Darbuka drums, but the introduction of modern trap set gear - the complexity is phenomenal to hear in live bands now. I found it jaw dropping. Where modern western tunes commonly (though not always) place odd signatures in just portions of a song to make for interesting transitions, these Persian/Turkish rooted variations build the entire song of odd timing and it's just mind blowing.
It is used throughout The Balkans too.
I prefer to call one of those Turkish time signatures, 4 and a half/4. Because it’s like a bar of 4/4 then a little stutter half beat, then 4/4 , half beat etc. But over 2 bars it is 9/8. But if you count 9, the second half of the count occurs on the up beat, but the music is on the down beat! And when the audience clap along it’s like “1, 2, 3, 4 huh, 1, 2, 3, 4 huh, ……”
Shall I do all the important things I need for my business that are backed up and growing? No. I'll sit here watching a kid I've never heard of in a wizard hat going on about time signatures. And I don't even play drums. Cheers brain. This is another fine mess you got me into.
I watched this whole video on 0.5 playback... not intentionally, my pc was playing up and I couldn't change the settings.. I recommend it though, really sunk in better I think! Excellent video, Cobb you are a character... much appreciated 🙏
The Bojack reference at the beginning killed me 😂
What is this? A crossover episode?!
*ERICA!*
It's disappointing i had to scroll so far down to find this comment, but glad i did! Doggy doggy what now
@@FernandoWhitehorn I thought exactly the same, my Peanurino brother
WhatTimeIsItdotcom
Love the Mr Peanutbutter (Bojack Horseman) reference, very good show.
Imagine being able to say "let's make it groovy" and actually being able to make it groovy
What’s great about this is that he describes each signature in such a relatable way and makes me realise that I could actually use some of these now that I have more context