❗️EXTRA DISCUSSION: Some of you have mentioned that “2+2=5” and also my arrangement of “Frere Jacques” could be transcribed in 7/8, rather than 7/4. This is true, however both options are valid in these examples. One advantage of transcribing in 7/4 is that it shows that the quarter note is the main pulse, not the eighth note. Ultimately, the choice between 7/4 and 7/8 is down to context, and the context sometimes doesn’t dictate either way. 👍🏼
It could even be written in 7/16, 7/32, 7/64, or 7/1. A few hundred years ago, time sigs were more varied, but over time, standards emerged. And since time sigs do not convey tempo, there's really no reason to use 16/16, 8/8 or 2/2 when 4/4 works for all, and is much simplier.
@@Shermanbay I've struggled for many years to understand what essential information is conveyed by the bottom number in a time signature. I've yet to hear a coherent explanation of why it is necessary or desirable. Why does cut time exist? Why wouldn't you just write it in 2/4? Why is it necessary or beneficial to have the “flexibility” of having non-quarter notes get one beat? What do you gain from that? What essential information is conveyed by the denominator? I could decide that natural language needs to have the “flexibility” of assigning some words their opposite meaning. Perhaps every paragraph should be marked with a “meaning signature”: #1 if yes means yes and no means no, #2 if yes means no and no means yes. Think of the freedom! The example is ludicrous, but the point is valid: there is no conceivable value in such a scheme. So it is with time signatures. IF YOU WANT TO WRITE A NOTE THAT GETS ONE BEAT, WRITE A QUARTER NOTE! The raison d'etre of the denominator is entirely a mass delusion, as far as I can tell (although I've heard an amazing variety of nonsensical explanations from musicians of all stripes). It is time to admit that the bottom number in a time signature conveys no meaning at all, and to stop using it. All we need to know is the number of beats per measure. A quarter note gets one beat. Period.
@@hnnymn Please consider the history and notational development over time. While it is common for one beat to equal one quarter note now, there is nothing inherently logical or compelling to make that happen. Written music from a few hundred years ago hadn't yet been standardized and was still evolving. The denominator is absolutely necessary in order to interpret the numerator properly.
2+2=5 Is also a Quantum Mechanics answer for a long long mathematical equation that Stephen Hawkings put forward to explain the miniscule amount of space dust in the universe and how it adds into Quantum Mechanics. So 2+2=5 but only in Quantum Mechanics and The Universe :) Thanks for a very cool piece that helped this music listener get a wee bit more knowledgeable about my music ( all 5,301 Tapes, Records, C.D's and downloads ) Be well and be safe.
@@Shermanbay yeah I agree, the denominator isn't particularly useful anymore. I think it should be substituted for a number that tells us how many 16th note subdivisions the beat has. So for 4/4, it would be identical, but in music like say Tigran Hamasyan where he has quintuple divisions, rather than a big scary time signature like 20/16, you just have 4/5 - 4 beats that each divide into 5. Or in the 7/4 "shuffle" examples in the video, rather than 21/8, it's just 7/3.
Yeah because of how they subdivided the beats! 4+3 or 3+4 is more acceptable to the listener than say 2+3+2, but you still get the upbeat effect. The accents makes music more danceable or more mathematic and difficult or interesting to decipher!
One song that alludes to the sense of the 'missed beat' in 7/4 is King Gizzard's 'Mr. Beat' (a play on words). The song is in 7/4 and sounds as if they are skipping a beat. King Gizz always manages to keep their music danceable somehow
@@Tookashet heh, I expanded this comment just to say this. Even better when the lyric is literally "once I'm Mr Beat, only miss a beat" just to ram the point home
*me, having literally no idea how music works and is also musically deaf, and sometimes can't even tell two guitars apart in a track, let alone the beat:* fascinating!
That Brubeck footage was cool. I saw him perform live in concert when he was about 83 or 84 yrs old. He shuffled across the stage looking very much his age. But within 2 minutes of starting to play I could have bet my first born he was 40 years younger just by how his movement changed. One of the most amazing musical memories ever
Me too, Cactus. He was flying out to Poland from the UK the next day. He did Unsquare Dance with a clarinet solo. Made me wonder why he didn't give Paul Desmond a solo in the original.
There's something so irresistible about 7/4. It really grooves. Like it it gives you more space to throw in those ghost notes and accents. It feels liberating, but not waffly or awkward.
Money is the only pop song I ever noticed to be in 7/4. I also noticed the time changes, but I never noticed how cleverly it all lined up. This channel is making me want to get back into composition
@@JosephMensman1/4 signature would likely fail to sound like itself, because how you group the bars of 1/4 would make it sound like another timing altogether, be it 3/4, 4/4, or whatever have you. You'd essentially just be removing the distinction between bars and beats, and your mind would probably group the bars/beats anyway.
My take on the 2 bars of 4/4 in Solsbury Hill has always been that it's meant to feel like 'home', since in the lyrics that's the point where he's going home.
When I was younger (so much younger), I was at a disco, not sober, dancing to Blondie’s big new hit Heart Of Glass. I was thrilled by the verse that dropped a beat, sometimes. What a goof on disco, I laughed. I did not think, “7/4, how irregular.” Same with the All You Need Is Love, it feels like an odd jump, a dropped beat. I never counted seven. Sometimes, I guess the time signature is just a way to write down what’s already happening in a musician’s head.
Are you aware of Milcho Leviev? He joined the Don Ellis Orchestra and brought in e.g. Bulgarian Bulge (was that 33/8 or 35/8? I don't recall.) and played the intro to Blues in Elf Flat as The Moonlight Sonata in 11 (3+3+3+2). That blues intro still knocks me out!
right! la villa strangiato for instance, 7/4( during the 1st guitarsolo). but the most famous 7/4 song is of course Music, by john miles, (the 1st instrumental break). also liste n to Toto's version of Sunshine of your love).
@@Herby701 - Rush tends to alternate time signatures frequently, but I think the most audibly obvious use of 7/4 or 7/something is in the opening riff of "Limelight", after the first couple of bars. The repeated guitar motif before and in between the vocals is clearly a 7-beat (however it happens to be written).
Coldplay have two songs that go into 7/4: *Death and All His Friends* for one and *Glass of Water* is the other. Death and All His Friends has a unique split where the beats are grouped in 5 and 2 instead of the usual 3 and 4.
Bruh I’m not sure glass of water is even 7/4, I can’t seem to ever work out what it actually is and I’ve been at it for years hahah. My ears/mind seem to change on it with each listen - would really love to hear what’s going thru their in-ears when it’s done live. Coolest track ever
I know a little bit, but my brain struggles to conceptualize beyond 4/4 and 3/4. Honestly, I can't tell the difference between 4/4, 2/4, 12/8, etc. Am I just missing a critical lesson??
I’ve been taking theory lessons since I was 8/9 and am minoring in music next year to teach. If you ever want help understanding theory I could definitely give you a lesson. I love sharing my love of music theory
Kyle Richards the main difference is how the accents are. The example I’ve learned from is 3/4 and 6/8. If you take 3/4 and divide it into eighth notes, you would have three groups of two, and the split of 6/8 is two groups of three, giving 3/4 a more driving feel than 6/8’s relaxed feel. 12/8 has 12 eighth notes per bar and is probably split into three sets of four
@@bluemookie for 12/8, it's basically 4/4 but just the quarter notes are split into 3. So 12 8th notes. Just think instead of 1 2 3 4, 123 123 123 123. You could write a bar of 12/8 in 4/4 but it would just be more of a headache it is easier to feel it in 12/8. Look at laid to rest - Lamb of god (even if you don't like the music, it's an easy song to see 12/8) and you'll see that writing it in 12/8 is far easier to read than it would be in 4/4. The same with 2/4, it is just easier to feel it in 2/4 but it could be written in 4/4. As you can do with all even time signatures. That's the difference between odd/compound and even time.
I was one of the ones who was yelling Pink Floyd’s Money, but you got to it. I’ve heard it so many times and I didn’t know why it sounded off in a good way, until somebody explained it to me. Now it makes sense. Liked your transposition of Frere Jacques and how you incorporated a half step down in one of the chords at the end, giving it a minor sounding chord, then went up to a major chord for the resolution at the end of the song. Also liked the rhythm, too. Never heard it like that before, kinda funky.
Some of my personal favourites: * 2+2=5 - Radiohead * March of the Pigs - Nine Inch Nails * Outshined - Soundgarden * Them Bones - Alice in Chains * The Sound of Muzak - Porcupine Tree * Possum Kingdom - The Toadies * Times Like These - The Foo Fighters * Lord of Lightning - King Gizzard & The Lizard Wizard * Spiders - Slipknot
I must add the comment Alex made about this. He hinted that they would write a riff and just take notes out to make it sound weird or out of standard time. I've done this myself :)
Happy to see the Bulgarian dance here. Bulgarian folklore does very often include 7/8, 9/8 and 11/8 time signatures. This makes odd signatures really sound quite catchy to us when played by people from the as I say "Western World". I personally like that and often say "hey, that sounds like a Bulgarian dance!"
Lovely... You took a complex subject and made it understandable to a neophyte like me. I also loved your "Frere Jacques.” I keep playing it over and over. Well done
it seems pretty weird to omit "i am the doctor", which is such a clean 7/8 rhythmically (though it changes to 4/4 sometimes), while spending so much time on "solsbury hill", which is very much divided in 6/8, 8/8 instead of a 7/4.
I'm surprised he didn't mention it either. It's a good example of one that isn't 3 + 4. The fast tempo and 1/4th notes make it feel more like a 4/4 with the 4th beat cut in half. Like you said, makes it feel energetic, almost like the next measure can't wait to start
Crazy, I had this song in mind, and I was trying to figure out what time signature it was in. The fact that you used this song as the example just answered my question. Thanks!
As a musician, I was completely absorbed by this video. It was amazing to see these songs broken down but the kicker for me was the 7/4 arrangement of Frere Jacques! Brilliantly done!
George Harrison massively uses odd time signatures, and it really adds an identity to his songs. Brilliant video as always ! And that 7/4 frère Jacques is eerely beautiful...
Van Der Graaf Generator changing time signature every bar 4 times in a row, no repeats. There is probably a 7/4 in there, no 3/4 or 4/4. To be honest, the song was about a descent in mental chaos.
After to listening to Money for decades, ever since it was new, I had no idea it was 7/4 until I sat down and tried to play it (drums) about 10 years ago. I was so confused :) I had played for decades but never really studied music and this experience was the beginning of my quest to understand music more. I will never get to an upper level but I have learned more in the last decade than I had ever learned in my past. I LOVED Times Like These the instant that I heard it and bought the CD (rare for me). I didn't think about it being in 7/4 until today. I knew it was different and it is very obvious to me today. Love the channel!!
I'm glad you included Pink Floyd's Money. It's a song that I got sick of over time from hearing it too much, and then one day, I realized, as I was counting, it was in 7/4 and I came to love it again, just for the unorthodox character. If you really like ueven meters, check out a band called Redemption, I especially recommend a song called memory, which has a lot of 7/4 and 5/4, and a band called Fates Warning, which I believe features the same singer.
Thanks for mentioning Redemption - I had never heard them. Having checked out a couple of their songs, I'll be busy listening to their albums this week!
Yoooo that 7/4 Frère Jacques that you secretly had playing in the background really hammered home what the power of an odd time signature can be. Checking out that video immediately.
The literal best piece of music ever to be written in 74 is David’s frere jaques. Knew it before I watched the video, knew it while I was watching and still know it now I’ve finished. Superb reharminization, lovely chords, and you’ve made 74 sound natural. Great job, love it
I really like 7/4. At first, you expect the song to have a continuous flowing rhythm, but at the end, it throws you a surprise, cutting off the last beat and throws you into a surprised groove.
@@evanreza4712 I know! Outshined and Spoon Man has that killer beat that when I first heard of them I couldn't quite keep up. The Day I Tried To Live I find more chaotic with the constant switching form 7/4 to 4/4, gives the listener that bewildered feeling. Also include Them Bones by Alice in Chains of course.
“Rusty Cage” first part of the song is in 4/4 but the second, slow, part is in six-bar phrases consisting of three bars of 3/4 followed by one bar of 5/4, followed by a bar of 3/4 and a bar of 2/4 (3+3+3+5+3+2... is that 16/4???). The band admitted they just never paid attention to time signatures and this was a “total accident”.
David’s gorgeous 7/4 arrangement of “Frère Jacques” was what mainly spurred me to buy the _Tuplets for Toddlers_ record for my niece and nephew, when it was released. Maybe it helps that my sister, brother-in-law, and I are all musicians, but the kids loved it.
The Canadian group Rush had a lot of #1 songs playing on the Radio that included odd meters: Limelight, Subdivision and a few others. On their records they had quite a large number of songs with odd signatures including songs with sections in 10 / 8.. I saw quite a lot of people in bars dancing to Rush songs with odd meters. We could name other musicians using a lot of odd time signature (Zappa, etc ...) but Rush probably is the most popular rock band doing it and getting a large amount of air play with that kind of complex music.
@@FRN2013 Maybe the heavy guitar riff. It does have a ternary fell to it. Like: ||: 3/4 | 3/4 | 4/4 | 2/4 :| But it will fit in bars of 4/4 with strange accent.
@@Stavboy Here is the original: th-cam.com/video/FfhQkXnQwBI/w-d-xo.html And here is a live performance in 4/4: th-cam.com/video/znSqbA3kWFo/w-d-xo.html (The first 1-2 minutes of the song are in 4/4 in both versions. You can skip ahead if you like.) The 4/4 just feels very lethargic and bland to me. The 7/8 helps drive the song forward. I also love how he alternates the stress between each measure. i.e., it goes "1-2-1-2-1-2-3 / 1-2-3-1-2-1-2" if that makes sense.
@@teccam Thanks Derik. Though it turns out I'd just completely forgotten about that version, and had indeed heard it before. Pretty sure I've even got it on CD single, stashed away in a box under my stairs along with the hundreds of other CDs sadly now obsolete and unplayed. It's not a live version, but the single version I believe, 'tamed' for radio consumption. Definitely not better, as a result. As you suggest, it just limps along. I was thinking you'd meant that Sting had actually played it in 4/4 live on tour, which to my knowledge he never has. It's possible there may have been the odd TV performance or something to promote the single where he would have been forced to play in 4/4, but for his real fans at his concerts, forget it. He'd always keep the vastly superior 7/8.
@@NotDingse And many others in odd meter besides. And pretty much all of them, absolute gold. Sting was probably my first exposure to odd meters. You'd always get at least one on every album, and I loved the thrill of a new release, wondering what song would be in 5, 7, or 9.
Ah thank you! I had Unsquare Dance as an earworm but didn't know what it was called or who it was by. Googling "jazzy piano piece with bass" was unsurprisingly not narrowing it down, until I discovered your videos on odd time signatures - I was sure it had one. Thanks for enlightening me - it was getting really frustrating not knowing what it was!
I'd like to see more discussion of the "polyrhythm" of using guitar in an odd time, with drums in common time. Songs like "Kashmir" and Helmet's "In the Meantime" make use of this, allowing the rhythms to line up again.
Its interesting to think about how each of these songs can make 7/4 feel like either an “extra beat” or a “missing beat” time signature. As you alluded to, 7/8 is a common folk-dance rhythm in Balkan countries. The subdivision of “2+2+3” creates the feeling of “short, short, long” beats, which is integral to the feeling of the dance.
I was once in Turkey and we rode a big tourist boat, there were a lot of Turks who played and sang their music, and I was so amazed that they used 9/8 (divided not by 3), 7/8 and even 11/8 and mixes of these in their traditional music, and it also wasn't so obvious before I started counting. I was a big prog metal fan and thought that nothing popular or traditional can have odd meters.
I've seen 25/16 in Balkan dance. The point is that this folk music uses more complex approach: beats in a bar aren't equal. Suppose we have 6/8, there will be 6 beats of eight's note in a bar. In Balkan folk we can meet 6 beats in a bar, but 3 are quarter, 2 are eight and one is sixteen, thus formally getting 17/16 time signature. It's all based on dance moves. So the correct notation could be 3½/4 instead of 7/8 and 3+3/2/4 instead of 9/8 etc. There's also exist microtiming, musical speech like Zappa, ad libitum etc. Precisely transcribed it'll make sheets absolutely unreadable, so all sheets are kinda approximation
Ach! That 2,2,2,3 and 2,2,2,4 stuff, etc. is the mind-blowing Serbian stuff I heard a DJ on WFMU play in the 1990s that I'd like to hear again. My mother's mother and stepfather had Yugoslav records but mostly Croatian material that sounds fairly conventional. One of them turned out to be a translation of "Buffalo Gals" that I didn't recognize but my friends did!
I'm in a classical performance group that focuses on late 20th century / early 21st century music, and our director specializes in selecting music with odd time signatures. She's coached us extensively on 2+2+3, 2+3+2, and 3+2+2 subdivisions. Los Robles Master Chorale (performance recordings here on TH-cam)
David makes some of the most interesting videos on the internet. More interesting in that he brings attention to things you weren’t even aware of. Excellent.
Strangely enough i've always thought of Limelight as alternating measures of 4/4 and 3/4, though i guess its basially the same thing. Rick Beato made a good video about it
@@StevenStJohn-kj9eb Yes, Rush probably wouldn't stoop to being so simple and conventional as to have a song one time signature throughout. I can't think of one of their songs that doesn't include a time change of some sort.
What I find especially interesting is when composers make common time signatures sound odd and off-kilter. You would never guess that Black Dog by Led Zeppelin was in 4/4 unless you counted the beats.
This is awesome. I'm a drummer and just getting deep into understanding and reading odd time signatures. David, your videos have helped me out immensely. The real song examples really help dial it in because everyone knows these songs, (except for the Radiohead ones). I love videos on the differences between 6/8 and 3/4 and 4/4 and 12/8 for example.
Uh, listen. You can study music for YEARS and you still don't know shit about music. I know. That's what makes it so fun to explore. Like a cave. You don't know where it goes.
Yeah, you're not supposed to enjoy it; you're supposed to know shit about it. Listen, your opinion, your tastes, your appreciation of music are all JUST AS VALID as those of us that understand this complex stuff. Rock on!
@@ala0284 I've had years of music, but I still know shit about it. No one ever taught me theory. It was here play this. But I'm not a musician. Never could be. But I love to try and learn. I work hard to be as awful as I am. I don''t care. The joy is in the doing. This was why punk was such a joy. I could get up there and make those people dance, and maybe, just maybe, they'd be happy for a while.
“I Am the Doctor” for Doctor Who Series 5 is mostly in a 7. I’ve actually taken a ballet class where the instructor had us dance to Pink Floyd’s Money. I love odd meter!!
For me too although I can't say that I didn't like it before. I just always thought it was a dull children's song ^^ But in that version there's so much more to it! 😊
@@margheritamuller8708 Yeah I'm aware of that 🤗 Liked to sing it in French as a kid to get a feeling for the language 😊 And in school we sang it together.
Thank you for this explanation and thanks for noting that "A time signature is just a way of writing something down, and you can write things down in different ways". I don't know how many times I've gotten in to arguments with people who seem to be really hung up on time signatures.....they really exist to make the phrasing easier to see/understand...
I like your version of frere Jacques more than the traditional, but then, Time Out is my favourite album of all time. Thank you for exploring this topic. It helped a non-musician understand.
Glad you played Eleno Mome, it's one of the songs I drum to in a Balkan band. Most of those tunes are made up of 5,7,9,11,13 beats. One of our favourite effects, live, is to turn a 7/8 into a 4/4 in the middle, which takes people from dancing to the weird thing, to jumping up and down wildly, and then, because we are sadists, we suddenly snap back into 7/8 for the last few bars of the song.
I am a self taught musician, recently started recording at home. I have been trying to study theory and realized I don't suck as bad as I thought. My songs are often in odd time signatures and that is why they are hard to arrange.
So nice to discover your channel. I like breaking down my favorite themes and songs. When I saw your 7/4 examination I thought about Dave Grusin's theme from the old TV show "The Name of the Game" that made it one of my favorites in the same way "Halloween" and "Mission: Impossible" are in 5/4. Thank you for expanding my music fascination.
My contribution: ’Do you want it all’ by Two Door Cinema Blub. The 7/4 time really hives the song a sort of eagerness and energy, it’s both chill and hype at the same time :) a great listen!
I just recently transcribed Wendy Carlos's Tron soundtrack and found it to be a very brilliant piece in 7/4. I would have never known until I found some sheet music, like oh now it makes complete sense. Such a moving piece, Ending Titles track.
Solsbury Hill is a horn theme of 3 repeated twice with an extra beat lead in following, but then shifts to a melody of 4 paired with the theme of three. It's such a clever arrangement because it feels so natural to the listener's ears despite the 'odd' time signature, because the musical units feels so natural themselves. To me it's far more impressive than songs where you really feel the lurching awkwardness of the signature imposing itself on the song as it often comes across in jazz. "Money" is kinds of unique in that it doesn't disguise the odd meter at all, but uses its accents to create a propulsion (the shuffle) that the odd meter then embellishes.
UK's 'Rendezvous 6:02' is such a lovely example of this time signature being used. As a UK fan, I will also mention 'In the Dead of Night' - just another beauty.
Speaking of uncommon time signatures, back in middle school band we played a song that alternated between 7/8 and 4/4. giving the song a 1+2+123;1 2 3 4;1+2+123;1 2 3 4; feel. Took us forever to learn but to this day I can still tap along in that time.
You are correct, though as David said about other songs in this video, it might be easier to follow when counting if you think about it as a group of 6 followed by a 5. Its unusual time signature for a rock song was one of the things that endeared it to Frank Zappa - the master of odd time signatures! - who included it in the repertoire of his 1984 band.
I once had a nearly successful audition as a bassist for a local hair metal band - but messed it up at the end by attempting to start a jam on Whipping Post. The guitarist barely picked it up, the drummer was out of it by the third measure, and the keyboardist/singer just about blew a circuit.
One of my favorites with a predominant 7/4 timing is Subdivisions by Rush.. Like Floyd's Money, not for the whole song but just about, and uses 4/4 at the start of each stanza before switching back to 7/4, then goes into 6/4 for the main chorus. It is a brilliant example of time changes. Also I've read that Brubeck was inspired by Bulgarian and Turkish rhythms so it was appropriate you played examples of each after his interview. For Unsquare Dance it is 2-2-3 specifically.
Interesting video. I've always been fascinated by odd time signatures and in fact the very first song I ever wrote, many years ago, was in 7/4 time. I've recorded a number of pieces using 5, 7 and 11 beats to a bar, and I have fragments of ideas in my head for 13 and 17 that may or may not ever see the light of day! I always found the 1-2-3 / 1-2 rhythm of Take Five rather cheesy so my goal when writing is to try to make each bar a musically integral unit rather than a combination or 2s, 3s and 4s. As you can imagine this is very hard and I don't usually succeed to the degree I'm aiming for.
I appreciate the odd time Signatures,but I guess I can relate to the more well known ones, especially since I am an amateur musician and so the, “ “Old-school “” time signatures are easier to replicate, perform and understand. Thank you for this enlightning video; I enjoyed it very much !!! I love this song “money” I guess I never heard it analyzed the way you have , and I appreciate that very much, these odd time signatures do make the music more interesting, as compared to the regular and more well known, rhythms, but for those of us not as schooled in music as you are, it is nice to hear these things pointed out and therefore noticed from now on more plainly. Also the song ““ all you need is love ““, in my uneducated musical mind I heard that the song, I knew it had a different rhythm to it , but I couldn’t put my finger on what exactly was going on, so I am very happy to have seen this video and thank you very much for again explaining it all !!!! PS .. I love the way you rewrote “Frera Jaques ”... spelling (?)!!!it’s beautiful re-written in that time signature! ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️😄😄😄😄 Thank you again !!! 😃⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️🎶🎵🎶🎶🎶🎵🎶🎵👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Thank you. As of late, I have become absolutely obsessed with odd time signatures. More specifically 5/4 time. I think watching this video may have just inspired me to play with 7/4 and others as well. I agree that music needs to get more widely adventurous again.
Jive Talkin' by the Bee Gees is a good example of a pop song that uses 7/4. At the time it came out I was familiar with many odd time signatures, having used 7/4 and 7/8 in a number of pieces and yet the 7/4 instrumental bridge in Jive Talkin' was so seamlessy done that it took me a couple listens before I realized it was in 7. Beautiful job on Frere Jacques BTW.
bz ng I guess in the sense that 2 measures of 7/8 will have the same number of quarter note beats as 7/4, but that’s like saying 3/4 and 4/4 are the same because 4 bars of 3/4 have the same number of beats as 3 bars of 4/4. The groove of 2+2=5 is very different from the rest of the songs on the list because the “7/4” bar is divided evenly in two, and I think it’s most obvious in the hi-hat. Maybe I’m hearing something that isn’t there, but it sounds like the hi-hat is accenting a 7/8 “quick-quick-slow” pattern. I’d personally call it 7/8 instead of 7/4.
Thanks a lot, that’s most useful and enlightening for me as a beginning singer-songwriter. I’m really getting tired of the quadruplness of my own music, but I was lacking background in music theory to vary my time signatures. I’ll definitely give a lot of thought to it now!
I grew up on ELP, Yes, Genesis, Rush, etc. One of my first aha moments came when I realized that The Fish (Schindleria Praematurus) is 7/4 in the rhythm and 14/2 (28/4) in the melody. I play keyboards and these polyrhythm time signatures are the most fun to play. I wonder how classical audiences responded when they first heard The Planets by Holst open with Mars: The Bringer of War in 5/4?
❗️EXTRA DISCUSSION: Some of you have mentioned that “2+2=5” and also my arrangement of “Frere Jacques” could be transcribed in 7/8, rather than 7/4. This is true, however both options are valid in these examples. One advantage of transcribing in 7/4 is that it shows that the quarter note is the main pulse, not the eighth note.
Ultimately, the choice between 7/4 and 7/8 is down to context, and the context sometimes doesn’t dictate either way. 👍🏼
It could even be written in 7/16, 7/32, 7/64, or 7/1. A few hundred years ago, time sigs were more varied, but over time, standards emerged. And since time sigs do not convey tempo, there's really no reason to use 16/16, 8/8 or 2/2 when 4/4 works for all, and is much simplier.
@@Shermanbay I've struggled for many years to understand what essential information is conveyed by the bottom number in a time signature. I've yet to hear a coherent explanation of why it is necessary or desirable.
Why does cut time exist? Why wouldn't you just write it in 2/4? Why is it necessary or beneficial to have the “flexibility” of having non-quarter notes get one beat? What do you gain from that? What essential information is conveyed by the denominator?
I could decide that natural language needs to have the “flexibility” of assigning some words their opposite meaning. Perhaps every paragraph should be marked with a “meaning signature”: #1 if yes means yes and no means no, #2 if yes means no and no means yes. Think of the freedom!
The example is ludicrous, but the point is valid: there is no conceivable value in such a scheme.
So it is with time signatures. IF YOU WANT TO WRITE A NOTE THAT GETS ONE BEAT, WRITE A QUARTER NOTE!
The raison d'etre of the denominator is entirely a mass delusion, as far as I can tell (although I've heard an amazing variety of nonsensical explanations from musicians of all stripes).
It is time to admit that the bottom number in a time signature conveys no meaning at all, and to stop using it. All we need to know is the number of beats per measure. A quarter note gets one beat. Period.
@@hnnymn Please consider the history and notational development over time. While it is common for one beat to equal one quarter note now, there is nothing inherently logical or compelling to make that happen. Written music from a few hundred years ago hadn't yet been standardized and was still evolving.
The denominator is absolutely necessary in order to interpret the numerator properly.
2+2=5 Is also a Quantum Mechanics answer for a long long mathematical equation that Stephen Hawkings put forward to explain the miniscule amount of space dust in the universe and how it adds into Quantum Mechanics. So 2+2=5 but only in Quantum Mechanics and The Universe :) Thanks for a very cool piece that helped this music listener get a wee bit more knowledgeable about my music ( all 5,301 Tapes, Records, C.D's and downloads ) Be well and be safe.
@@Shermanbay yeah I agree, the denominator isn't particularly useful anymore. I think it should be substituted for a number that tells us how many 16th note subdivisions the beat has. So for 4/4, it would be identical, but in music like say Tigran Hamasyan where he has quintuple divisions, rather than a big scary time signature like 20/16, you just have 4/5 - 4 beats that each divide into 5. Or in the 7/4 "shuffle" examples in the video, rather than 21/8, it's just 7/3.
Can't be a David Bennett video without mentioning The Beatles or Radiohead
Can't be a David Bennett video without someone mentioning that he mentions The Beatles or Radiohead.
@@tudorftbl can't be a David bennett video with out someone mentioning that someone was mentioning that he mentions Radiohead and Beatles
--or-- and
Maybe cause THEY R AWESOME!
What do u want, oasis?
Its not his fault radiohead and the beatles literally experimented with everything thats why he always metions them they are ALWAYS relevant
most of these 7/4 just sounds like you're playing a regular 4/4, but jumping to next chord on the upbeat
7/4 often sounds like 4/4 but skipping a beat every two bars!
Yeah because of how they subdivided the beats! 4+3 or 3+4 is more acceptable to the listener than say 2+3+2, but you still get the upbeat effect. The accents makes music more danceable or more mathematic and difficult or interesting to decipher!
One song that alludes to the sense of the 'missed beat' in 7/4 is King Gizzard's 'Mr. Beat' (a play on words). The song is in 7/4 and sounds as if they are skipping a beat. King Gizz always manages to keep their music danceable somehow
@@Joe_Friday810 I've either read or heard something to that effect, whatever the case is, it's good shit haha
@@Tookashet heh, I expanded this comment just to say this. Even better when the lyric is literally "once I'm Mr Beat, only miss a beat" just to ram the point home
*me, having literally no idea how music works and is also musically deaf, and sometimes can't even tell two guitars apart in a track, let alone the beat:* fascinating!
Even Jesus doesn't understand how music works
Musically deaf?
@@Julian-ns3it just an expression that means someone isn't musically inclined or trained at all
Same! I can't tell what time signature something is in to save my life, but it's all very intriguing.
@@computernaut like everything it takes practice !
Songs that use 7/4 time.
1 million prog rock fans enter the chat!
There are 1 million prog rock fans? :)
Yeah, that's why I'm here.. Hoping to here an analysis of Dance on a Volcano by Genesis Lol!
@@Pandamasque One for each of Rick Wakemans wizard outfits.
I'm waiting find, dream theater, genesis, and King Crimson.
@@WarrenCromartie2 Rick Beato did one.
That Brubeck footage was cool. I saw him perform live in concert when he was about 83 or 84 yrs old. He shuffled across the stage looking very much his age. But within 2 minutes of starting to play I could have bet my first born he was 40 years younger just by how his movement changed. One of the most amazing musical memories ever
Me too, Cactus. He was flying out to Poland from the UK the next day.
He did Unsquare Dance with a clarinet solo. Made me wonder why he didn't give Paul Desmond a solo in the original.
Yeah totally! I love Brubeck, Unsquare Dance is an amazing song imho
I saw Brubeck live in 1982 or so when he had Jerry Bergonzi playing tenor with the quartet. The contrast in styles was wonderful.
Excuse me dad, but could you please stop betting me all the time? It's begun getting to me.
-Your first-born son
There's something so irresistible about 7/4. It really grooves. Like it it gives you more space to throw in those ghost notes and accents. It feels liberating, but not waffly or awkward.
Money is the only pop song I ever noticed to be in 7/4. I also noticed the time changes, but I never noticed how cleverly it all lined up. This channel is making me want to get back into composition
Literally went to this video just to see if he mentioned Money haha
I love how that song literally has money noises in 7/4 time. it’s so genius.
Pop?
@@bvq330 non-orchestral
@@a_literal_brick Oh
That arrangement at the end was bafflingly good and calming. I wasn’t ready for it :) Rearranging nursery rhymes sounds fun
It's calming but still jubilant, it's amazing
I like it better than the original somehow. It has a whimsical feel to it
I got major post rock vibes. Super well done, simple, beautiful. My fav out of the bunch on that album.
Random but can you write a song in 1/4 even if it would sound bad?
@@JosephMensman1/4 signature would likely fail to sound like itself, because how you group the bars of 1/4 would make it sound like another timing altogether, be it 3/4, 4/4, or whatever have you. You'd essentially just be removing the distinction between bars and beats, and your mind would probably group the bars/beats anyway.
My take on the 2 bars of 4/4 in Solsbury Hill has always been that it's meant to feel like 'home', since in the lyrics that's the point where he's going home.
When I was younger (so much younger), I was at a disco, not sober, dancing to Blondie’s big new hit Heart Of Glass. I was thrilled by the verse that dropped a beat, sometimes. What a goof on disco, I laughed. I did not think, “7/4, how irregular.”
Same with the All You Need Is Love, it feels like an odd jump, a dropped beat. I never counted seven.
Sometimes, I guess the time signature is just a way to write down what’s already happening in a musician’s head.
I often think of that one too.
I immediately thought 'oh, that's in 7'. There's a BeeGees song that does that too.
spot on!
I, too, am thrilled about the 7/4 parts in Heart of Glass. It absolutely makes the song way cooler than it could ever be in solid 4/4.
So much younger than today?
Solesbury Hill flows so nicely, I never gave it a thought.
It's that bass drum that holds down the beat that does it.
It lends itself easily to that bouncy English-Irish countryside dance. Vertical pogo-stick hop.
@@kennethlatham3133 The 'dance' that must never be named.....
@@gittebjerrebraae8382 ?????
Robert Fripp was involved, he loves a nice strange time signature. Fripp also played the banjo on this song.
As a Bulgarian, and a long-time Prog, and Jazz fan I have always found uneven meters exciting and enjoyable
Esoteric
best comment! i love 5/4 the most
As a Bulgarian, you ahould know that your Balkan and Greek neighbours and relatives have been singing and dancing in odd meters for centuries.
Are you aware of Milcho Leviev? He joined the Don Ellis Orchestra and brought in e.g. Bulgarian Bulge (was that 33/8 or 35/8? I don't recall.) and played the intro to Blues in Elf Flat as The Moonlight Sonata in 11 (3+3+3+2). That blues intro still knocks me out!
15:52
"All we need is more writers like Brubeck, Peter Gabriel, or Pink Floyd..."
Oh well, that should be easy.
That statement stands alone, in any discussion about music
@@stanmanjam I second that.
he really said that, it's almost a blasphemy!
"Everyone's talking about the Beatles and Radiohead and Pink Floyd and prog rock and Brubeck..."
"All we are say-ing, is give Rush a chance."
right! la villa strangiato for instance, 7/4( during the 1st guitarsolo). but the most famous 7/4 song is of course Music, by john miles, (the 1st instrumental break). also liste
n to Toto's version of Sunshine of your love).
@@Herby701 - Rush tends to alternate time signatures frequently, but I think the most audibly obvious use of 7/4 or 7/something is in the opening riff of "Limelight", after the first couple of bars. The repeated guitar motif before and in between the vocals is clearly a 7-beat (however it happens to be written).
@@losthor1zon disagree; the first 5 notes are an upbeat: if you count the 4/4 bar as: 1 ne, 2 e, 3 e, 4 e, the guitar starts on 2 e.
Did I hear someone say "Subdivisions?" 😁
A part in natural science is in 7/4 one of my favorite rush rifts to play on guitar.
Coldplay have two songs that go into 7/4: *Death and All His Friends* for one and *Glass of Water* is the other. Death and All His Friends has a unique split where the beats are grouped in 5 and 2 instead of the usual 3 and 4.
Bruh I’m not sure glass of water is even 7/4, I can’t seem to ever work out what it actually is and I’ve been at it for years hahah. My ears/mind seem to change on it with each listen - would really love to hear what’s going thru their in-ears when it’s done live. Coolest track ever
@@zoey2211 it is 7/8 in the chorus part. Count it in 1/8th notes, not 1/4 notes, and its pretty easy to tell.
how do u notice that? i kinda new to this
I'm googling this next
"because the sight of 21:8 would probably give most performers IBS"
that was fantastic. David, I had to stop the video to laugh.
Same dude. Literally laughed out loud.
I've used 21/8.
Excuse me, just need the bathroom
i think metallica has some 21/8 stuff written as such on the drum score
I think Keep it Greasy by Frank Zappa switches between 19/16 and 21/16.
@@Lord_Skeptic ins is a bowel disfunction which can cause stomach pain.
*Me, who doesnt know shit about music theory despite trying my hardest to learn:* interesting.
I know a little bit, but my brain struggles to conceptualize beyond 4/4 and 3/4. Honestly, I can't tell the difference between 4/4, 2/4, 12/8, etc. Am I just missing a critical lesson??
I’ve been taking theory lessons since I was 8/9 and am minoring in music next year to teach. If you ever want help understanding theory I could definitely give you a lesson. I love sharing my love of music theory
Kyle Richards the main difference is how the accents are. The example I’ve learned from is 3/4 and 6/8.
If you take 3/4 and divide it into eighth notes, you would have three groups of two, and the split of 6/8 is two groups of three, giving 3/4 a more driving feel than 6/8’s relaxed feel.
12/8 has 12 eighth notes per bar and is probably split into three sets of four
Haha begginer
@@bluemookie for 12/8, it's basically 4/4 but just the quarter notes are split into 3. So 12 8th notes. Just think instead of 1 2 3 4, 123 123 123 123. You could write a bar of 12/8 in 4/4 but it would just be more of a headache it is easier to feel it in 12/8. Look at laid to rest - Lamb of god (even if you don't like the music, it's an easy song to see 12/8) and you'll see that writing it in 12/8 is far easier to read than it would be in 4/4. The same with 2/4, it is just easier to feel it in 2/4 but it could be written in 4/4. As you can do with all even time signatures. That's the difference between odd/compound and even time.
I was one of the ones who was yelling Pink Floyd’s Money, but you got to it. I’ve heard it so many times and I didn’t know why it sounded off in a good way, until somebody explained it to me. Now it makes sense.
Liked your transposition of Frere Jacques and how you incorporated a half step down in one of the chords at the end, giving it a minor sounding chord, then went up to a major chord for the resolution at the end of the song. Also liked the rhythm, too. Never heard it like that before, kinda funky.
That Frere Jacques in 7/4 is nothing short of amazing. Brilliant!
Thanks Peter!!
I was just thinking the same thing as I heard it. Brilliant!
Spot on! And the unexpected harmonisation makes it even tastier :)
I've heard it in minor also.
Some of my personal favourites:
* 2+2=5 - Radiohead
* March of the Pigs - Nine Inch Nails
* Outshined - Soundgarden
* Them Bones - Alice in Chains
* The Sound of Muzak - Porcupine Tree
* Possum Kingdom - The Toadies
* Times Like These - The Foo Fighters
* Lord of Lightning - King Gizzard & The Lizard Wizard
* Spiders - Slipknot
Did you know the main riff of Blackened by Metallica is in 7/4?
Alice in Chains needs more love.
2+2=5 over Paranoid Android?
Ink by Finch! The song switches between 7/4 and 9/4 back and forth!
Thank you, I added all of your choices in my spotify playlist: open.spotify.com/playlist/6KWZWbPUW0ZcGiqmOBkZGk?si=7lmvXxnQRHScs6ToOfqqEg
man I have never learned as much about music as I am learning from this channel. Thank you very much David!
Rush songs "La Villa Strangiato," "Xanadu," "Tom Sawyer," and "Subdivisions" have major parts in 7/4.
Exactly, the main riff from "Limelight" too
they all have major parts in my heart
Red Barchetta too
Jeez, knowing Rush, they probably slipped into "pi/4 time" at some point. (He says affectionately.)
I must add the comment Alex made about this. He hinted that they would write a riff and just take notes out to make it sound weird or out of standard time. I've done this myself :)
Happy to see the Bulgarian dance here. Bulgarian folklore does very often include 7/8, 9/8 and 11/8 time signatures. This makes odd signatures really sound quite catchy to us when played by people from the as I say "Western World". I personally like that and often say "hey, that sounds like a Bulgarian dance!"
I'm grateful for this.
I'd like to explore.
Could you suggest a good starting point?
Best wishes- whether or not you respond.
Lovely... You took a complex subject and made it understandable to a neophyte like me. I also loved your "Frere Jacques.” I keep playing it over and over. Well done
“I am the Doctor” by Murray Gold (from Doctor Who series) is also written in 7/4 which makes this track incredibly energetic.
Immediately what came to mind. Figuring out how to play this and realising it was in 7/4 was an absolute mindfuck
it seems pretty weird to omit "i am the doctor", which is such a clean 7/8 rhythmically (though it changes to 4/4 sometimes), while spending so much time on "solsbury hill", which is very much divided in 6/8, 8/8 instead of a 7/4.
I'm surprised he didn't mention it either. It's a good example of one that isn't 3 + 4. The fast tempo and 1/4th notes make it feel more like a 4/4 with the 4th beat cut in half. Like you said, makes it feel energetic, almost like the next measure can't wait to start
Ah, there it is, I had to scroll this far for the Doctor!
Crazy, I had this song in mind, and I was trying to figure out what time signature it was in. The fact that you used this song as the example just answered my question. Thanks!
As a musician, I was completely absorbed by this video. It was amazing to see these songs broken down but the kicker for me was the 7/4 arrangement of Frere Jacques! Brilliantly done!
This rendition of Frere Jacques almost makes me cry everytime I hear... so hopeful, so full of determination. I loved it
George Harrison massively uses odd time signatures, and it really adds an identity to his songs. Brilliant video as always ! And that 7/4 frère Jacques is eerely beautiful...
Omg i noticed that! So cool
Every Prog fan in the comments: "Why didn't you include [insert random prog band that used 7/4 (so basically all of them)]" :D
Absolutely! Dream Theater lives in the 'odd' meter space -- often engaging in metric modulation -- a fairly advanced, classical concept.
HEY!
Some of us are here to Represent Industrial too, in the discussions on odd time signatures.
do we need Math rock rep as well?
Van Der Graaf Generator changing time signature every bar 4 times in a row, no repeats. There is probably a 7/4 in there, no 3/4 or 4/4. To be honest, the song was about a descent in mental chaos.
Nah, not me. What I was wondering is why discuss the very simple 7/4 when you can torture your brain trying to decipher Tool's Pneuma LOL
*glances thumbnail*
"Woah is it possible that David made a vid without the Beatles? "
John in the corner: Allow me to introduce myself
John is everywhere. He’s always watching
this is Spooktober, John has been revived
@@karina-ww9pp i swear i see john in almost every beatles songs comment section.
@@kyoshitheavatar2414 as I said, he is always watching
Aren't them those guys who ruined rock music? - Beavis & Butt-Head - 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
After to listening to Money for decades, ever since it was new, I had no idea it was 7/4 until I sat down and tried to play it (drums) about 10 years ago. I was so confused :) I had played for decades but never really studied music and this experience was the beginning of my quest to understand music more. I will never get to an upper level but I have learned more in the last decade than I had ever learned in my past.
I LOVED Times Like These the instant that I heard it and bought the CD (rare for me). I didn't think about it being in 7/4 until today. I knew it was different and it is very obvious to me today.
Love the channel!!
Me seeing the title: oh I bet he’s gonna talk about Money
I saw the title and thought "I bet he's gonna talk about Money and Unsquare Dance"
Me too.
And Estimated Prophet (which is kinda 14/8, but still).
I thought: "All You Need Is Love"
I thought Freewill, although my favorite 7/4 is "Room 222 Theme" by Jerry Goldsmith.
I'm glad you included Pink Floyd's Money. It's a song that I got sick of over time from hearing it too much, and then one day, I realized, as I was counting, it was in 7/4 and I came to love it again, just for the unorthodox character.
If you really like ueven meters, check out a band called Redemption, I especially recommend a song called memory, which has a lot of 7/4 and 5/4, and a band called Fates Warning, which I believe features the same singer.
I had some sheet music of Money, and it was actually given as 4/4 3/4, ie one bar of 4 beats alternating with one of 3.
Thanks for mentioning Redemption - I had never heard them. Having checked out a couple of their songs, I'll be busy listening to their albums this week!
@@172Break if you want another band fond of odd time signatures, there's Dream Theater. Absolute titans of prog metal.
My favourite piece in 7/4 is I Am The Doctor from Doctor Who 😊 7/4 is an awesome time signature!!
Your “Frere Jacques” arrangement may be the most beautiful thing I've ever heard
Wow, your knowledge of Music Theory is at PhD level. Unbelievable depth of analysis and synthesis. Seriously enjoyable to watch and learn from you.
Agree completely.
Yoooo that 7/4 Frère Jacques that you secretly had playing in the background really hammered home what the power of an odd time signature can be. Checking out that video immediately.
The literal best piece of music ever to be written in 74 is David’s frere jaques.
Knew it before I watched the video, knew it while I was watching and still know it now I’ve finished. Superb reharminization, lovely chords, and you’ve made 74 sound natural. Great job, love it
10 minutes in and already 1000 views! People are really anticipating new content from your channel! Congratulations!
I really like 7/4. At first, you expect the song to have a continuous flowing rhythm, but at the end, it throws you a surprise, cutting off the last beat and throws you into a surprised groove.
7/4: exist
Prog bands: it's a free real estate
Prog bands: 21/8...? Now we’re talking!
Joe R M 21/32 ftw
Joe R M I wrote a song recently that uses 21/8 and 18/8 time.
I listen to a lot of prog, but I've never been able to follow Gentle Giant because they change time signatures so fast and flawlessly
@@Symphonicrockfran the riff in the end of in a glass house is something like: 7/8 10/8 8/8 4/8
Everyone's talking about the Beatles, Radiohead and Pink Floyd and all I want to hear is some Soundgarden.
Next video: why "Fell On Black Days" is actually in 5/4 with a quarter note tag after every bar
@@evanreza4712 I know! Outshined and Spoon Man has that killer beat that when I first heard of them I couldn't quite keep up. The Day I Tried To Live I find more chaotic with the constant switching form 7/4 to 4/4, gives the listener that bewildered feeling. Also include Them Bones by Alice in Chains of course.
The day I tried to love is my go to for counting it out to people. They obviously feel it as 4/4 + a 3/4 which is its own topic in itself.
AND some Alice in Chains!
“Rusty Cage” first part of the song is in 4/4 but the second, slow, part is in six-bar phrases consisting of three bars of 3/4 followed by one bar of 5/4, followed by a bar of 3/4 and a bar of 2/4 (3+3+3+5+3+2... is that 16/4???). The band admitted they just never paid attention to time signatures and this was a “total accident”.
David’s gorgeous 7/4 arrangement of “Frère Jacques” was what mainly spurred me to buy the _Tuplets for Toddlers_ record for my niece and nephew, when it was released. Maybe it helps that my sister, brother-in-law, and I are all musicians, but the kids loved it.
Best line of the video: “The sight of 21/8 would probably give most performers IBS.” 😂 around 9:20.
I laughed me arse off xD
That WAS a good one. The way he just casually said it.
Shit like that makes me jot down the composer's name, so I can later Google where they live. I just wanna talk.
Why would 21/8 give someone IBS
@@Lord_Skeptic , because of COVID
The Canadian group Rush had a lot of #1 songs playing on the Radio that included odd meters: Limelight, Subdivision and a few others. On their records they had quite a large number of songs with odd signatures including songs with sections in 10 / 8..
I saw quite a lot of people in bars dancing to Rush songs with odd meters.
We could name other musicians using a lot of odd time signature (Zappa, etc ...) but Rush probably is the most popular rock band doing it and getting a large amount of air play with that kind of complex music.
@@FRN2013 No. 4/4
@@FRN2013 Maybe the heavy guitar riff. It does have a ternary fell to it. Like:
||: 3/4 | 3/4 | 4/4 | 2/4 :|
But it will fit in bars of 4/4 with strange accent.
What about Tom Sawyer, Limelight, Spirit of the Radio, also contain odd and switching timesignatures?
Yeah you can "dance" to that music, but It ain't pretty. lol
@@hansnijntjes Yes those do have odd time signature in some sections.
It’s such a joyful feeling to see my two fav bands (like yours) in your videos, thank you!
"I Was Brought to My Senses" by Sting is 7/8 on the album, but he often performs it in 4/4. It sounds *so* much better in 7/8 though.
Really Derik? I've never heard that, and would love to hear such a version, not that I think it would be better. Got any links?
@@Stavboy Here is the original: th-cam.com/video/FfhQkXnQwBI/w-d-xo.html
And here is a live performance in 4/4: th-cam.com/video/znSqbA3kWFo/w-d-xo.html
(The first 1-2 minutes of the song are in 4/4 in both versions. You can skip ahead if you like.) The 4/4 just feels very lethargic and bland to me. The 7/8 helps drive the song forward. I also love how he alternates the stress between each measure. i.e., it goes "1-2-1-2-1-2-3 / 1-2-3-1-2-1-2" if that makes sense.
He also made Love Is Stronger Than Justice, which is also 7/8
@@teccam Thanks Derik. Though it turns out I'd just completely forgotten about that version, and had indeed heard it before. Pretty sure I've even got it on CD single, stashed away in a box under my stairs along with the hundreds of other CDs sadly now obsolete and unplayed.
It's not a live version, but the single version I believe, 'tamed' for radio consumption. Definitely not better, as a result. As you suggest, it just limps along.
I was thinking you'd meant that Sting had actually played it in 4/4 live on tour, which to my knowledge he never has. It's possible there may have been the odd TV performance or something to promote the single where he would have been forced to play in 4/4, but for his real fans at his concerts, forget it. He'd always keep the vastly superior 7/8.
@@NotDingse And many others in odd meter besides. And pretty much all of them, absolute gold. Sting was probably my first exposure to odd meters. You'd always get at least one on every album, and I loved the thrill of a new release, wondering what song would be in 5, 7, or 9.
“Take seven” just doesn’t have the same ring to it.
UnSquare Dance would not have the ring as would Pentagon Dance,
I usually take sevens at work.
Ah thank you! I had Unsquare Dance as an earworm but didn't know what it was called or who it was by. Googling "jazzy piano piece with bass" was unsurprisingly not narrowing it down, until I discovered your videos on odd time signatures - I was sure it had one. Thanks for enlightening me - it was getting really frustrating not knowing what it was!
I'd like to see more discussion of the "polyrhythm" of using guitar in an odd time, with drums in common time. Songs like "Kashmir" and Helmet's "In the Meantime" make use of this, allowing the rhythms to line up again.
burnvictim77 seen polyphia GOAT
Zepplin was great at polyrhythm, and what made Bonham fantastic was he would drum in the odd time...."fool in the Rain"
Polyrhythm: When the djembe player gets drunk and keeps adding or missing beats, seemingly at random.
Is this what's happening in Nirvana's "Swap Meet"!?
@@MrByebyelove The riff is just syncopated I think. It's all 4/4
Its interesting to think about how each of these songs can make 7/4 feel like either an “extra beat” or a “missing beat” time signature.
As you alluded to, 7/8 is a common folk-dance rhythm in Balkan countries. The subdivision of “2+2+3” creates the feeling of “short, short, long” beats, which is integral to the feeling of the dance.
I was once in Turkey and we rode a big tourist boat, there were a lot of Turks who played and sang their music, and I was so amazed that they used 9/8 (divided not by 3), 7/8 and even 11/8 and mixes of these in their traditional music, and it also wasn't so obvious before I started counting. I was a big prog metal fan and thought that nothing popular or traditional can have odd meters.
@@BORN753 Yes, and folk songs in 11 have a gentle, rocking feel to them.
I've seen 25/16 in Balkan dance. The point is that this folk music uses more complex approach: beats in a bar aren't equal. Suppose we have 6/8, there will be 6 beats of eight's note in a bar. In Balkan folk we can meet 6 beats in a bar, but 3 are quarter, 2 are eight and one is sixteen, thus formally getting 17/16 time signature. It's all based on dance moves. So the correct notation could be 3½/4 instead of 7/8 and 3+3/2/4 instead of 9/8 etc. There's also exist microtiming, musical speech like Zappa, ad libitum etc. Precisely transcribed it'll make sheets absolutely unreadable, so all sheets are kinda approximation
Ach! That 2,2,2,3 and 2,2,2,4 stuff, etc. is the mind-blowing Serbian stuff I heard a DJ on WFMU play in the 1990s that I'd like to hear again. My mother's mother and stepfather had Yugoslav records but mostly Croatian material that sounds fairly conventional. One of them turned out to be a translation of "Buffalo Gals" that I didn't recognize but my friends did!
I'm in a classical performance group that focuses on late 20th century / early 21st century music, and our director specializes in selecting music with odd time signatures. She's coached us extensively on 2+2+3, 2+3+2, and 3+2+2 subdivisions. Los Robles Master Chorale (performance recordings here on TH-cam)
David makes some of the most interesting videos on the internet. More interesting in that he brings attention to things you weren’t even aware of. Excellent.
Rush and Genesis had some odd meter usages as well.
“Limelight” and “Firth of Fifth” for example
"Natural Science" as well.
Strangely enough i've always thought of Limelight as alternating measures of 4/4 and 3/4, though i guess its basially the same thing. Rick Beato made a good video about it
There's probably dozens of examples for Rush. Tom Sawyer kicks into 7/4 in the instrumental. The instrumental of The Trees has a 5/4 section.
@@StevenStJohn-kj9eb Yes, Rush probably wouldn't stoop to being so simple and conventional as to have a song one time signature throughout. I can't think of one of their songs that doesn't include a time change of some sort.
Love how you gave Frère Jacques such a feeling of urgency in 7/4! It was really wonderful!
What I find especially interesting is when composers make common time signatures sound odd and off-kilter. You would never guess that Black Dog by Led Zeppelin was in 4/4 unless you counted the beats.
your re-arrangement of frere jaques has such a warm character to it, so different, not "just a nursery rhyme"!
The arrangement at the end was REALLY good! Nice job!
This is awesome. I'm a drummer and just getting deep into understanding and reading odd time signatures. David, your videos have helped me out immensely. The real song examples really help dial it in because everyone knows these songs, (except for the Radiohead ones). I love videos on the differences between 6/8 and 3/4 and 4/4 and 12/8 for example.
It was at this moment I knew that I don’t know shit about music.
Uh, listen. You can study music for YEARS and you still don't know shit about music. I know. That's what makes it so fun to explore. Like a cave. You don't know where it goes.
Yeah, you're not supposed to enjoy it; you're supposed to know shit about it.
Listen, your opinion, your tastes, your appreciation of music are all JUST AS VALID as those of us that understand this complex stuff. Rock on!
I like the fact that i dont know shit about music but i can appreciate music to the same level as a music graduate thanks to my ears and brain
@@ala0284 I've had years of music, but I still know shit about it. No one ever taught me theory. It was here play this. But I'm not a musician. Never could be. But I love to try and learn. I work hard to be as awful as I am. I don''t care. The joy is in the doing. This was why punk was such a joy. I could get up there and make those people dance, and maybe, just maybe, they'd be happy for a while.
@@kennethlatham3133 That is a nice thing to say but sometimes I feel pretty stupid listening to some of these videos.
7/4 is such an interesting signature. I'll have to play around with it.
you can start by jamming along with Soundgarden's "Spoonman"
count in Swedish! en, två, tre, fyr, fem, sex, sju.
That Frere Jacques is GORGEOUS! Only recently discovered your stuff (thanks to Get Back, I think) and I'm learning a lot. Thank you, love your style.
That rearrangement at the end is gorgeous. Makes me want to write a continuation to it. 🙂
Thank you!
The first appearance of the Gb6-Chord in "Frère Jacques" alway makes me believe that there's got to be a better world.. Thank you, David.
watching from Kenya. Your content is so cool, informative and such a breathe of fresh air. keep at it. Thank you so much
Thank you!
“I Am the Doctor” for Doctor Who Series 5 is mostly in a 7. I’ve actually taken a ballet class where the instructor had us dance to Pink Floyd’s Money. I love odd meter!!
Wow, that's one of my favourite pieces of music and I never noticed!
I really like what you've done with Frere Jacques. hauntingly beautiful. I wish you would post an uninterrupted version so I could share.
"And because the sight of 21/8 would give musical performers IBS" - killed me
😄😆😅😂
As a percussionist, when he showed it in 21/8 I felt immense relief and understanding 😅💀
I'm a cellist and I get that IBS feeling when the music changes from bass to treble clef.
Your "Frere Jacque" sounds GORGEOUS!
I'd never liked Frere Jacques melody, but your rearrangement brought it to life for me. Amazing stuff! Take my thumbs up!
For me too although I can't say that I didn't like it before. I just always thought it was a dull children's song ^^ But in that version there's so much more to it! 😊
It was a ‘round’ where singers had to join in halfway through - not a nursery song. A bit like rose,rose,rose is an english round
@@margheritamuller8708 Yeah I'm aware of that 🤗 Liked to sing it in French as a kid to get a feeling for the language 😊 And in school we sang it together.
Stephan Krain that’s lovely. I got records from my grandmother: Rondes et chansons de France - there are lots of TH-cam versions posted by fenicnarfab
Thank you for this explanation and thanks for noting that "A time signature is just a way of writing something down, and you can write things down in different ways". I don't know how many times I've gotten in to arguments with people who seem to be really hung up on time signatures.....they really exist to make the phrasing easier to see/understand...
I like your version of frere Jacques more than the traditional, but then, Time Out is my favourite album of all time. Thank you for exploring this topic. It helped a non-musician understand.
The Dave Brubeck Quartet released another album, Time Further Out. Unsquare Dance is from the latter.
Glad you played Eleno Mome, it's one of the songs I drum to in a Balkan band. Most of those tunes are made up of 5,7,9,11,13 beats. One of our favourite effects, live, is to turn a 7/8 into a 4/4 in the middle, which takes people from dancing to the weird thing, to jumping up and down wildly, and then, because we are sadists, we suddenly snap back into 7/8 for the last few bars of the song.
My school played Times Like These for a concert. It was written with every bar alternating between 3/4 and 4/4. It wasn’t really hard to adapt to
I am a self taught musician, recently started recording at home. I have been trying to study theory and realized I don't suck as bad as I thought. My songs are often in odd time signatures and that is why they are hard to arrange.
Me too! I seem to be always stuck in 3/4!
Adam Neely is involved in every youtube music collaboration I have ever seen
So nice to discover your channel. I like breaking down my favorite themes and songs. When I saw your 7/4 examination I thought about Dave Grusin's theme from the old TV show "The Name of the Game" that made it one of my favorites in the same way "Halloween" and "Mission: Impossible" are in 5/4. Thank you for expanding my music fascination.
The arrangement for frere jacques is amazing. 👍🏽
Ganondorf’s song while your fighting him in the pipe organ room on Ocarina of Time. That’s one crazy time signature!
Brilliant! Thanks. Yes! bring on more songs with odd time sigs. The rhythms are sooo much more interesting and captivating!
I like how in all the “Song that...” videos John or Paul is in the thumbnail.
My contribution: ’Do you want it all’ by Two Door Cinema Blub. The 7/4 time really hives the song a sort of eagerness and energy, it’s both chill and hype at the same time :) a great listen!
blub
I just recently transcribed Wendy Carlos's Tron soundtrack and found it to be a very brilliant piece in 7/4. I would have never known until I found some sheet music, like oh now it makes complete sense. Such a moving piece, Ending Titles track.
Thanks for posting, I was just going to mention Wendy Carlos's Tron. ;-)
Solsbury Hill is a horn theme of 3 repeated twice with an extra beat lead in following, but then shifts to a melody of 4 paired with the theme of three. It's such a clever arrangement because it feels so natural to the listener's ears despite the 'odd' time signature, because the musical units feels so natural themselves. To me it's far more impressive than songs where you really feel the lurching awkwardness of the signature imposing itself on the song as it often comes across in jazz. "Money" is kinds of unique in that it doesn't disguise the odd meter at all, but uses its accents to create a propulsion (the shuffle) that the odd meter then embellishes.
HOLY $HIT!!! 12 Tone looks nothing like what I thought! Great video, once again, sir!
Thank you!
UK's 'Rendezvous 6:02' is such a lovely example of this time signature being used.
As a UK fan, I will also mention 'In the Dead of Night' - just another beauty.
Speaking of uncommon time signatures, back in middle school band we played a song that alternated between 7/8 and 4/4. giving the song a 1+2+123;1 2 3 4;1+2+123;1 2 3 4; feel. Took us forever to learn but to this day I can still tap along in that time.
you should check out The Rap by Secret Garden, it alternates between 5/4 and 3/4 but it still has an understandable rhythm
Was it Undertow by John Mackey?
By any chance was it "The Day I Tried to Live" by Soundgarden?
My favorite weird time signature song is "whipping post" by the allman brothers band, which (from my understanding) is kinda written in 11/4
You are correct, though as David said about other songs in this video, it might be easier to follow when counting if you think about it as a group of 6 followed by a 5. Its unusual time signature for a rock song was one of the things that endeared it to Frank Zappa - the master of odd time signatures! - who included it in the repertoire of his 1984 band.
Great song!
I once had a nearly successful audition as a bassist for a local hair metal band - but messed it up at the end by attempting to start a jam on Whipping Post. The guitarist barely picked it up, the drummer was out of it by the third measure, and the keyboardist/singer just about blew a circuit.
Count 123 123 123 12
@@rogerturner5504 Yes,that is the way.
My favorite example is 'The sound of Muzak' by Porcupine Tree. It has a cool riff and a signature drum beat that hard to get out of the head.
Great song!
One of my favorites with a predominant 7/4 timing is Subdivisions by Rush.. Like Floyd's Money, not for the whole song but just about, and uses 4/4 at the start of each stanza before switching back to 7/4, then goes into 6/4 for the main chorus. It is a brilliant example of time changes.
Also I've read that Brubeck was inspired by Bulgarian and Turkish rhythms so it was appropriate you played examples of each after his interview. For Unsquare Dance it is 2-2-3 specifically.
Interesting video. I've always been fascinated by odd time signatures and in fact the very first song I ever wrote, many years ago, was in 7/4 time. I've recorded a number of pieces using 5, 7 and 11 beats to a bar, and I have fragments of ideas in my head for 13 and 17 that may or may not ever see the light of day! I always found the 1-2-3 / 1-2 rhythm of Take Five rather cheesy so my goal when writing is to try to make each bar a musically integral unit rather than a combination or 2s, 3s and 4s. As you can imagine this is very hard and I don't usually succeed to the degree I'm aiming for.
Those videos and analysis are amazing stuff!
I appreciate the odd time Signatures,but I guess I can relate to the more well known ones, especially since I am an amateur musician and so the, “ “Old-school “” time signatures are easier to replicate, perform and understand.
Thank you for this enlightning video;
I enjoyed it very much !!!
I love this song “money” I guess I never heard it analyzed the way you have , and I appreciate that very much,
these odd time signatures do make the music more interesting,
as compared to the regular and more well known, rhythms,
but for those of us not as schooled in music as you are, it is nice to hear these things pointed out and therefore noticed from now on more plainly.
Also the song ““ all you need is love ““, in my uneducated musical mind I heard that the song, I knew it had a different rhythm to it , but I couldn’t put my finger on what exactly was going on,
so I am very happy to have seen this video
and thank you very much for again explaining it all !!!!
PS .. I love the way you rewrote “Frera Jaques ”... spelling (?)!!!it’s beautiful re-written in that time signature! ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️😄😄😄😄
Thank you again !!! 😃⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️🎶🎵🎶🎶🎶🎵🎶🎵👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Thank you. As of late, I have become absolutely obsessed with odd time signatures. More specifically 5/4 time. I think watching this video may have just inspired me to play with 7/4 and others as well. I agree that music needs to get more widely adventurous again.
Jive Talkin' by the Bee Gees is a good example of a pop song that uses 7/4. At the time it came out I was familiar with many odd time signatures, having used 7/4 and 7/8 in a number of pieces and yet the 7/4 instrumental bridge in Jive Talkin' was so seamlessy done that it took me a couple listens before I realized it was in 7. Beautiful job on Frere Jacques BTW.
Alright, my predictions: 2+2=5 by Radiohead, All you need is Love by the beatles and Money by Pink Floyd
right
ethans reloading 2+2=5 is in 7/8
@@mehmed6529 it's the same
bz ng I guess in the sense that 2 measures of 7/8 will have the same number of quarter note beats as 7/4, but that’s like saying 3/4 and 4/4 are the same because 4 bars of 3/4 have the same number of beats as 3 bars of 4/4. The groove of 2+2=5 is very different from the rest of the songs on the list because the “7/4” bar is divided evenly in two, and I think it’s most obvious in the hi-hat. Maybe I’m hearing something that isn’t there, but it sounds like the hi-hat is accenting a 7/8 “quick-quick-slow” pattern. I’d personally call it 7/8 instead of 7/4.
@@mehmed6529 Money is 7/8 as well.
Ok. 'Frere Jacques' in 7/4 time just sounds plain old cool.
Thanks a lot, that’s most useful and enlightening for me as a beginning singer-songwriter. I’m really getting tired of the quadruplness of my own music, but I was lacking background in music theory to vary my time signatures. I’ll definitely give a lot of thought to it now!
I grew up on ELP, Yes, Genesis, Rush, etc. One of my first aha moments came when I realized that The Fish (Schindleria Praematurus) is 7/4 in the rhythm and 14/2 (28/4) in the melody. I play keyboards and these polyrhythm time signatures are the most fun to play. I wonder how classical audiences responded when they first heard The Planets by Holst open with Mars: The Bringer of War in 5/4?