I recall a May Day episode where the plane had unreliable altitude and kept asking the controller to confirm where they were on radar. Unfortunately the controllers screen was taking data from the transponder broadcast. But the controller didn’t know it and all together resulted in a crash. I wondered if this might be the reason for the checklist saying to turn off the info on transponder.
Same thing came to my mind. I listened to the tapes here on TH-cam, it might be the specific accent in Spanish, but the controller sounded so arrogant and annoyed with them for asking.
The rare flight from National to Dulles! I've been on the same flight, flight out of National had to divert to Dulles because cabin wouldn't pressurize.
One of the few times a US pilot declares Mayday at the start of their call with clear and slow cadence and the controller still has to ask who it is ... - good grief.
Looks like the world must be ending! Rarely do you see US pilots declare an emergency with a MAYDAY call. Most of the time its more like "I'd like to declare an emergency, please.".
Mayday is to get attention. The controller heard that. Obviously he didn’t get the call sign but knew he needed to deal with it. It’s okay to miss the call sign….
1. On most Boeing airliners, there is a placard on the pillar between the L1/R1 and L2/R2 windows that tells you basic power and pitch information. In VFR conditions that is all you need. That and we train on this scenario in the simulator. 2. Loss of an air data computer is rare; Losing BOTH is extremely rare. You can usually switch to the other computer and this solves the problem. This one is an odd one... 3. -If you are at this level of the game and cannot fly your plane by "feel" and just add 15 knots then SOMETHING IS WRONG! I'm not faulting the AA "Sky nazi" guys at all, they did a nice job! I'm just pointing out how this isn't much of a problem in VFR conditions. But you DO have to handle it the way they did. Great video!
For airliners, unreliable airspeed implies unreliable altitude, even if it's only the pitot tubes affected and not the static ports, because the barometric altitude from the static ports has to be corrected by the air data computers depending on airspeed. The altitude can be off by many hundreds of feet due to erroneous airspeed.
@@andyasdf2078 Please explain. Static port reading is used for both altitude and airspeed, so if airspeed is unreliable, it means you shouldn't trust the altitude reading either, no?
Altitude isn’t guaranteed. In an extreme case I’ve heard people suggesting to depressurise the aircraft and use the cabin pressure systems to display altitude, but that’s getting far too complicated for something that is reasonably straightforward to handle.
@@zachansen8293 TCAS can issue Traffic Advisories (TAs) to assist the pilot in the visual search for the intruder aircraft and to prepare the pilot for a potential Resolution Advisory. TCAS gives a TA when the Closest Point of Approach (CPA) is between 20 and 48 seconds.
@@zachansen8293 TA is like the first wall of protection which reminds the pilot of the potential conflict. However pilots are not supposed to deviate or manoeuvre from previous cleared path as the separation between traffic may be sufficient. They often required visual reference of the other traffic or information from ATC. If the separation between traffic deteriorates such that a RA is given to the pilots, they shall act immediately according to the advisories.
I ask this question again: "Why isn't the information on the nature of the emergency passed along from one controller to the next"? We did that years ago when I was a controller by our "D" man sitting next to us. Oh, that's right, automation can handle that!!!
TCAS was going nuts because the aircraft didn’t know what altitude it was at. This is when backup GPS altitude comes in handy. Sounds like a static port blocked.
@@JohnSmith-zi9or Funnily enough, TCAS is something that might display wrong data in an unreliable airspeed situation. (Same as altimeter and altitude reporting.) Since TCAS does consider the airspeed, it might have been inaccurate, estimating them being faster due to the unreliable data.
@@JohnSmith-zi9or I didn't look at the manual for the plane in particular, but the one I have here says "The following may or may not be reliable [...] VSI, altimeter, altitude reporting and TCAS."
I am always baffled by the crazy management of emergency conditions. It is always a matter of chance if nothing happens. Tcas, redundant questions, unclear instructions, how much did it take? 20 and more minutes in order to bring it back? And in this case there are no language problems... I cannot imagine what could happen with a [put a "less high quality company", let's say]
@@kkobayashi1 20 minutes with unreliable airspeed... i dont know. I would not go on 20 minutes in my car without knowing the speed😅. I know that checklists and procedures are the first thing modern aviation thinks about... and I am quite sure 3 or 4 major crashes could have been prevented with a shift of focus, from procedures to "bring (or keep) the plane down". A lot of "miracoulous" savings were made possible by pilots that followed instinct and common sense instead of a QRH. I know it is wrong etc, because not following them has caused even more crashes... but it is what I think. Procedures should help pilots, not block them.
@@MrMarcec85 Which major crashes do you think could have been avoided by bypassing the checklist and landing immediately? Closest I could think of is Transair 810 and that was only because the pilots shut down the wrong engine. In fact they should have taken MORE time to assess the situation before taking any action like shutting down an engine.
@@MrMarcec85 which accidents were from pilots not following the QRH and instead “went off instinct?” These pilots followed their memory items and then the QRH to safely get back on the ground. But since you know better, guess you should go tell AA’s training department they should do it your way.
@@saxmanb777 there are a few, the most recent I can think of, also because in the recent years I ve been having less time to read and follow aviation stuff, is Sullenberger. But also the Gimli glider. And I could add the BA38, where the pilot increased flaps (talking about instinct and not procedures).
VFR conditions!!! No one knows how to fly basic attitude and power anymore. If it were such an emergency, land immediately. Don’t fly all over the DC area. Winds were calm at IAD. Land north.
Well Bob, nothing in this video indicates they were struggling for control, so they obviously managed pitch/power just fine enough to run a pretty simple checklist to restore functionality in their cockpit, then coordinate with dispatch and have the Flight Attendants prepare the cabin. They weren't on fire, have 2 other working pitot-static systems and a redundant air data computer...therefore any professional pilot knows this is a time to "wind the clock," not cowboy the jet back in record time like Bob would do. This is why pilots like Bob don't get jobs in Part 121.
They literally did just that. Set a thrust and pitch attitude to fly away from the ground. It’s literally a memory item. The figure out the bad system, isolate it, then prepare for a landing. There is zero reason to hurry in this scenario.
It usually means one of them doesn’t match the others. Hopefully at least one of them is right. It just takes some time to figure out which one is correct.
Unreliable airspeed is a serious emergency. The airspeed and altitude are measured by the same set of sensors so they can't trust the altitude and vertical speed readings either. So the pilots don't know if the plane is about to stall (or already stalled) or about to crash into the ground or the wings are about to rip off due to excessive speed, etc. And the aircraft computer gets confused and may give false warnings, like a stall warning when the airplane is actually going too fast (or the other way around).
I recall a May Day episode where the plane had unreliable altitude and kept asking the controller to confirm where they were on radar. Unfortunately the controllers screen was taking data from the transponder broadcast. But the controller didn’t know it and all together resulted in a crash.
I wondered if this might be the reason for the checklist saying to turn off the info on transponder.
I think it was Aeroperú Flight 603 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroper%C3%BA_Flight_603
Same thing came to my mind. I listened to the tapes here on TH-cam, it might be the specific accent in Spanish, but the controller sounded so arrogant and annoyed with them for asking.
The rare flight from National to Dulles! I've been on the same flight, flight out of National had to divert to Dulles because cabin wouldn't pressurize.
I hadda laugh at that one! Been to both, but not on the same flight lol
That was an unfortunate pattern they we’re vectored in at the end….🙃
Do you have square 🏀 🏀 ?🤔🤣 All I saw was a bow tie or a butterfly broach
Handled in a professional manner by all concerned....well done!
One of the few times a US pilot declares Mayday at the start of their call with clear and slow cadence and the controller still has to ask who it is ... - good grief.
Looks like the world must be ending! Rarely do you see US pilots declare an emergency with a MAYDAY call. Most of the time its more like "I'd like to declare an emergency, please.".
In Australia, at least, you say you call sign three times when declaring an emergency. I'm guessing this is one of the reasons why.
no speed indication. dangerous
Mayday is to get attention. The controller heard that. Obviously he didn’t get the call sign but knew he needed to deal with it. It’s okay to miss the call sign….
Sometimes the controller is on multiple frequencies and sectors depending on the time of day.
Not uncommon.
Was the controller trying to vector them so that the radar track looked like the handle of a pair of scissors or did it just turn out that way?
Not intentional. The flight did 2 “loops” delay vectors to complete checklist and obtain altitude needed…before starting approach.
1. On most Boeing airliners, there is a placard on the pillar between the L1/R1 and L2/R2 windows that tells you basic power and pitch information. In VFR conditions that is all you need. That and we train on this scenario in the simulator.
2. Loss of an air data computer is rare; Losing BOTH is extremely rare. You can usually switch to the other computer and this solves the problem. This one is an odd one...
3. -If you are at this level of the game and cannot fly your plane by "feel" and just add 15 knots then SOMETHING IS WRONG!
I'm not faulting the AA "Sky nazi" guys at all, they did a nice job! I'm just pointing out how this isn't much of a problem in VFR conditions. But you DO have to handle it the way they did.
Great video!
Probably on the 737. Cause most don't. It is a memory item first, followed by the QRH.
I feel like we should have seen other aircraft, got a bit hectic
That may have been a tough flight but at least they put a nice bow on it
Love how they couldn’t be clearer in declaring and yet atc still managed to miss call sign 😂
I have a bit of a problem when he called mayday and his call sign very clearly
look like there is another transmit from another aircraft at same time
Three nature of emergency. Nice hand offs
For airliners, unreliable airspeed implies unreliable altitude, even if it's only the pitot tubes affected and not the static ports, because the barometric altitude from the static ports has to be corrected by the air data computers depending on airspeed. The altitude can be off by many hundreds of feet due to erroneous airspeed.
Incorrect.
@@andyasdf2078 Please explain. Static port reading is used for both altitude and airspeed, so if airspeed is unreliable, it means you shouldn't trust the altitude reading either, no?
Altitude isn’t guaranteed. In an extreme case I’ve heard people suggesting to depressurise the aircraft and use the cabin pressure systems to display altitude, but that’s getting far too complicated for something that is reasonably straightforward to handle.
@@kkobayashi1 Static ports are used to calculate true air speed. Transponder uses ground speed
@@andyasdf2078 So you agree with me?
2:00 What is a "TA"?
TCAS Traffic advisory
@@YouCanSeeATC Is that different than an RA? Like maybe an RA happens if you don't act on a TA?
@@zachansen8293 TCAS can issue Traffic Advisories (TAs) to assist the pilot in the visual search for the intruder aircraft and to prepare the pilot for a potential Resolution Advisory. TCAS gives a TA when the Closest Point of Approach (CPA) is between 20 and 48 seconds.
@@zachansen8293 TA is like the first wall of protection which reminds the pilot of the potential conflict. However pilots are not supposed to deviate or manoeuvre from previous cleared path as the separation between traffic may be sufficient. They often required visual reference of the other traffic or information from ATC. If the separation between traffic deteriorates such that a RA is given to the pilots, they shall act immediately according to the advisories.
@@JohnSmith-zi9or Thanks!
I ask this question again: "Why isn't the information on the nature of the emergency passed along from one controller to the next"? We did that years ago when I was a controller by our "D" man sitting next to us. Oh, that's right, automation can handle that!!!
Not great to be turned into another aircraft taking off.
May have been an erroneous warning. Unreliable airspeed also means unreliable altitude.
TCAS was going nuts because the aircraft didn’t know what altitude it was at.
This is when backup GPS altitude comes in handy. Sounds like a static port blocked.
@@JohnSmith-zi9or Funnily enough, TCAS is something that might display wrong data in an unreliable airspeed situation. (Same as altimeter and altitude reporting.) Since TCAS does consider the airspeed, it might have been inaccurate, estimating them being faster due to the unreliable data.
@@JohnSmith-zi9or I didn't look at the manual for the plane in particular, but the one I have here says "The following may or may not be reliable [...] VSI, altimeter, altitude reporting and TCAS."
@@lyaneris Boeing product?
GPS altitude isn’t displayed anywhere for the pilots.
@@saxmanb777 "GPS altitude isn’t displayed anywhere for the pilots."
Nor is it accurate enough for aviation.
The Captain/Second officer sounded like he needed a triple espresso to help him stay awake !😵💫
There is no Second Officer on a 737. It's Captain and First Officer
exactly how I want my captain to sound, just another day at the office
was this a max?
It says 737-800 in the description so nope. 737-600 to 737-900 are all "Next Generation" 737's aka 3rd gen (Max is 4th gen).
They keep going they will end up in Harrisburg
I am always baffled by the crazy management of emergency conditions. It is always a matter of chance if nothing happens. Tcas, redundant questions, unclear instructions, how much did it take? 20 and more minutes in order to bring it back? And in this case there are no language problems... I cannot imagine what could happen with a [put a "less high quality company", let's say]
Which instructions were unclear? 20 minutes seems pretty quick for going through the checklist and landing.
@@kkobayashi1 20 minutes with unreliable airspeed... i dont know. I would not go on 20 minutes in my car without knowing the speed😅. I know that checklists and procedures are the first thing modern aviation thinks about... and I am quite sure 3 or 4 major crashes could have been prevented with a shift of focus, from procedures to "bring (or keep) the plane down". A lot of "miracoulous" savings were made possible by pilots that followed instinct and common sense instead of a QRH. I know it is wrong etc, because not following them has caused even more crashes... but it is what I think. Procedures should help pilots, not block them.
@@MrMarcec85 Which major crashes do you think could have been avoided by bypassing the checklist and landing immediately? Closest I could think of is Transair 810 and that was only because the pilots shut down the wrong engine. In fact they should have taken MORE time to assess the situation before taking any action like shutting down an engine.
@@MrMarcec85 which accidents were from pilots not following the QRH and instead “went off instinct?” These pilots followed their memory items and then the QRH to safely get back on the ground. But since you know better, guess you should go tell AA’s training department they should do it your way.
@@saxmanb777 there are a few, the most recent I can think of, also because in the recent years I ve been having less time to read and follow aviation stuff, is Sullenberger. But also the Gimli glider.
And I could add the BA38, where the pilot increased flaps (talking about instinct and not procedures).
textbook.
VFR conditions!!! No one knows how to fly basic attitude and power anymore. If it were such an emergency, land immediately. Don’t fly all over the DC area. Winds were calm at IAD. Land north.
They obviously did know how to fly, which is why they didn't make any hasty decisions and did an emergency landing by the book.
Well Bob, nothing in this video indicates they were struggling for control, so they obviously managed pitch/power just fine enough to run a pretty simple checklist to restore functionality in their cockpit, then coordinate with dispatch and have the Flight Attendants prepare the cabin. They weren't on fire, have 2 other working pitot-static systems and a redundant air data computer...therefore any professional pilot knows this is a time to "wind the clock," not cowboy the jet back in record time like Bob would do. This is why pilots like Bob don't get jobs in Part 121.
They literally did just that. Set a thrust and pitch attitude to fly away from the ground. It’s literally a memory item. The figure out the bad system, isolate it, then prepare for a landing. There is zero reason to hurry in this scenario.
Three airspeed systems and unreliable.
Good observation. Good job.
then it could be that the air data computer was on the fritz
It usually means one of them doesn’t match the others. Hopefully at least one of them is right. It just takes some time to figure out which one is correct.
Or the “remove before flight” covers were not removed
wondering why the GPS system wasnt functioning either at least a form of reference
Why a Mayday and not a PAN?
Because it is am Emergenct
Unreliable airspeed is a serious emergency. The airspeed and altitude are measured by the same set of sensors so they can't trust the altitude and vertical speed readings either. So the pilots don't know if the plane is about to stall (or already stalled) or about to crash into the ground or the wings are about to rip off due to excessive speed, etc. And the aircraft computer gets confused and may give false warnings, like a stall warning when the airplane is actually going too fast (or the other way around).