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I found Ken while researching avoidant attachment. Other TH-camrs want us to 'understand' and adapt to the avoidant. I find your information is true. How does a healthy individual accept treatment where they are shown as time goes on that they are unloved, unwanted and unimportant? The only choice is to leave.
@marilyn I have also noticed this as well. There is much emphasis here on YT on what seems like adapting to the avoidants behavior. I agree with giving everyone a chance and no one chooses their attachment style. There are often behaviors that go beyond attachment and are more personality defects. Poor or nonexistent communication, along with most deactivating strategies, comes to mind. It’s up to all of us to set boundaries and not tolerate being treated unwell.
Yes to everything you both said. Even if someone has a certain attachment style, that’s not the real issue. The concern that I consider is: does this person want to work on their stuff and be in a relationship or not. I think that there are certain things people can do to accomodate their partner’s attachment style but acquiescing and bending over backwards for someone who isn’t our emotional level who isn’t also stepping up is not a recipe for a functional relationship.
You so nailed this . Ken does no BS , insightful real life truth. Many other channels cater to Avoidants.
The choice would be to leave, live your life, and see if they want to reach back out and you set boundaries for them to work on it. If they don’t really show interest in working on themselves, let them hit 40 when they’ve exhausted all of their connections they’ve burned. Maybe they might be willing then but it’ll be too late
@@KenReidCo such a painful lesson... you can not help those who do not want to be helped. To me it feels like there is a red button and a green button right in front of us, and all we have to do is both press green and we are in heaven. So of course I press green, look up... and they pressed red... so I explain them the game, hey we just need to both press green, come on, it will be amazing, I get excited, I press green again, and man I just can't wait to get back to heaven, I can feel it already it is so close, and... they pressed red... then red again... and again... and again...
Thank you for your videos, they were the ones that finally clicked for me. I'm recovering from a super short, but super intense anxious-avoidant trap situationship and break up, and nobody understands why I'm so broken. I don't understand why I'm so broken. Even my therapist of 5 years, who is otherwise excellent, couldn't really understand and help me. All my friends and family keep telling me to just move on, question why I am so hung up on such a short fling. In many ways, it was more intense more meaningful and more emotional than my marriage of 3 years and the divorce after, which is an absolute mindf*ck. It affected my work, and even the time I spend with my child, insane! How is this even possible?
There are a few other good videos out there that explain the mechanics and the dynamic very well, but you somehow also mirror back and validate our emotions and pain so effectively, that it is just healing. After watching a couple of your videos, I finally felt heard and validated and understood. I'm not crazy. Yes, the love was real, and the proof is actually all the weird painful stuff that suddenly made it not work. It's like we live in mirror universes, left is right and up is down. At our core, we are the same, which is why we could have this incredible connection, but our coping stategies are polar opposites. I am bent left, she is bent right, and instead of straightening each other out, we both broke, but in different places.
Again, thank you. I can finally start moving on. I will be loved again, and I will be able to love again. I'll patch up the holes in my soul that this experience exposed that I have, and learn. I'll do a much better job the next time in attracting the right person, and in filtering out the ones who are just not ready for or not capable of a true relationship.
Red flags
No photos
No music
No connections
No social media
Limited family and friend interaction (him) I was a secret
Hyper independent
Hyper intellectual and work orientated
5 hours a week quality time
Rare sleepovers
Rare future planning
Reluctant to divulge/refuse to give family/friends names
Avoid deep conversation
Avoid relationship discussions
Avoid conflict
But kind, compassionate, articulate in expressing love verbally and physically in person, consistent, reliable, loved to be seen as the hero....
Such a hard thing to navigate 😢
Same here. 💯 I particularly struggle with the lack of public acknowledgement. I don't need it as external validation, I need it as demonstration of commitment and pride to have me as his partner.
@veral2274 yes agreed. It creates accountability and it also means you see them in different interactions which I believe they don't want....too vunerable and you see who they really are, they have less control.
@@veral2274 we broke up...
I deleted my social media 3+ years ago. I think no social media is a green flag.
@trippy6183 I think it is a good choice. My ex has social media but I wasn't connected with him. I never saw a public post in the 3 years we were together but he may of privately posted. He has been active since we split 2 days before my birthday NYE and a day last month. I shouldn't of looked and now on a strict ban 😅
oh now looking back there were so many red flags:
- lack of previous relationships at age 25 (and she was a beautiful woman) or lied about not having any
- told me she hated herself
- strong aversion towards people showing affection in front of other people
- constant need for disconnect and for excessive time alone
- told me she didn't like me right after she fell in love, later told me she didn't love me right after she invited me to her home town and we had a good time, then did something similar every time we got too close together
- inability to adapt or change their own ways because "you should love me the way I am" even if they are doing something toxic
- horribly bad at texting beyond superficial chit-chat once the love bombing is over
- unable to empatize with emotions of other people (including friends)
- dismissive avoidant parents
- avoids talking about dating of past partners
- super long time to reply to texts, unwillingness to share when traveling alone
- inability to be vulnerable or to take accountability or to even say sorry
- not communicating when something bothers them until it's a deal breaker
- sees sex as a chore or something not worth pursuing (not just with me)
Spiritwanderer: A lot of your list is true for my ex. Question: What attachment style would you say YOU have? Because I realized that I'M avoidant too. The pattern of me magically putting myself in 'situationships' even though I've had at least 2 truly attractive women want ME in a full committed relationship and I eventually bailed or 'slow faded.'
@@bluecoffee8414 I can tell you who I WAS when I met my ex, I felt secure although I did have at the time a fear of abandonment and people pleasing tendencies so I would say I was probably anxiously attached but didn't know it because I didn't know anything about the attachment theory. Now 4.5 months post breakup and no contact I'm still working through grief but I'm no longer anxiously attached with anyone, I worked through it in therapy. I see now why I attracted such relationships, they were familiar to my subconscious mind based on how I received love when I was little, so my idea of love was twisted enough. Whether you are secure or not, we will all at some point bump into (not necessarily atttact) avoidants, but when you are secure and know attachment theory in depth you just don't let them waste your time anymore and move on if they start their push pull game. I already met many avoidants since my breakup but I no longer allow them to be part of my life.
My FA had most of the traits in your list as well. Avoidants are almost made out of the same template and their avoidance manifests in very similar ways. I detected alot of red flags right from the start but i just didn't know what i was dealing with. Its SO confusing. Didn't know about attachment theory.
@@johndoe8923-k2d I didn't know attachment theory back then either. i thought i was dealing with a very covert narcissist. when i entered the relationship i was AP which is why it took me so long to leave. now i'm securely attached, but it took a lot of work to get there.
I am not avoidant, 33 yrs old and have few longterm relationships because the couple of partners I have had
have been avoidant! And the relationships did not last past the late honeymoon phases
Silent treatment is a huge red flag.
Compliments stop and flaw finding starts. Like dusk, Going form day to night.
Omg my ex DA did this which I pushed back and he did not like it.
Yep or the compliments are backhanded and the past co-experiences are devalued.
I got really damaged by someone who i really liked who happened to be avoidant. However, I wasn't attracted to him BECAUSE he was an avoidant and I need to heal my inner child etc. I just wanted to point out the difference as it seems to be bandied around that the only reason we would get involved is because we're deeply traumatised and that's not always the case. I was secure in my previous relationships and then when I met this person I turned into a complete nervous wreck because of their strange unpredictable behaviour. Sometimes you're just unlucky!
Ong same!
same😢
my guy can change personalities in a 12 hour time from...go from loving and doting on me ..saying super nice things and be kind for 7 hours then all of a sudden morning comes and he acts and even says that he never said those things....and for me to go home and becomes dismissive...it is the strangest thing ever...today I asked him if he had multiple personalities.....it is very fast how he switches ..and doesn't seem to remember what he said when he was the nice guy....ugggg this is killing me ....
The work is always the same. The work is around why we don't walk away.
@mrsherwood2599 You're so right! I think we don't walk away because we are already attached and invested. I definitely do this too quick but it's difficult to know when to let your guard down.
Actually, extreme independence is a way to mask vulnerability. Avoidants are very distrustful people.
I remember asking my avoidant to talk about our conflict on differences in opinion and her response was "do we have to?" it seemed so non sensical to me that they wouldnt want to work through something. Their conflict resolution is zero
Agree on extreme independence!
My FA does everything by himself and is happy doing so.
I’m always with friends … he is always alone
Give him a few years. You can't isolate yourself and not suffer for it eventually.
You nailed a lot of points, some I felt to be generalizations, in particular about the confidence. My ex was not confident at all. I thank my ex for helping me hit the rock bottom and destroying my self esteem completely, because the new self I'm rebuilding is far better than the best version of me ever was. I will never stay in such relationships again. My ex was not willing to take any accountability or self reflect, so I left, heartbroken, but I know it was the right decision.
Yes it's exponential growth
Sometimes I feel that if I didn't initiate, the relationship would fizzle out. It's puzzling because he's happy to meet when I suggest it, so why doesn't he suggest it instead? Makes me feel like I'm chasing him, which I am not. I'm just reaching out for the basic connection that exists within coupledom. Although he has since proposed to me, we're still doing what we were doing 18 months - once or twice of week quality time. The evening, and maybe the following morning. A whole day is unheard of. When you live on the same road, a mile from each other, it's just mind-boggling.
Did you accept the proposal? (I hope you didn't! After 8 years of trying to make something you described work, I just give up. Broken heart, health issues, mental issues ... it's just not worth it.)
Yeah I'd end that proposal. And I'd leave that relationship as soon as possible. They have a tendency of doing this. Proposing yet putting in the minimal effort. It's like pouring water into a broken vase.
Find a good homeopath to work with. It will build up your internal strength. I definitely recommend them. Change diet as well and get out walking and moving your body. You need to detox and let that person fade away.
Please don’t marry this person. Please get out it will get worse.
Sweetie love urself more. Find someone who loves ur light not dims and runs away from it. Ur future self will appreciate it. I promise. We all r sending u love and hugs. Here to support you. We have been there.
Mine runs but he has another woman to run to. So when he gets upset & vulnerable he ghosts/blocks me & runs to her. We're never going to solve anything because he has a crutch.
Why are you entertaining someone like that?
@@jessicahitchens6926 I'm not now. I'm I'm NC & plan to stay there.
I think he same is with my guy......I hate the blocking.....
He will never resolve issues and this has been his life pattern and will b. He has no incentive to behave better. Lower caliber women will settle for this. U dont need to.
So happy I found this channel. Watched The first video Why does an avoidant break up with you. I was just broken up with by my avoidant and everything Ken said was exactly what he did and said. OMG I felt like I have been going crazy for a year. Listening to this conversation is really helping me detach from the nightmare of dating this guy. I knew something wasn’t right with him early on. He now knows that he has an attachment disorder. I told him he needed to work on himself before he hurts another innocent woman.
The more I healed and became secure, the more he pulled away, resulting in a brutal text discard after years together. He was way more into me as an emotionally unavailable FA.
Because they started feeling cornered? And the more you open up the more closed up they become. It was kinda sad to watch. Like a dog who had been beat down because of its own behavior and can only react to love with distrust and fear.
This is such a helpful conversation. Thank you both!
I used to be DA but thang God I’ve been in relationships with very secure men and they did model for me how to come back to a balanced center. Now I will say the only reason I was able to be self aware and change and be accountable for my ways is because I didn’t start off DA.. It developed in me through my teen years due to living with a Narcissistic mother and then being in a relationship with a Narcissist man. It threw me over the far DA side. But truly ..Learning about Jesus and reading the Bible has centered me and made me humble. Fast forward, I attracted a DA man 🤦🏻♀️ and I recognize it … he broke up with me abruptly, even though I see the signs, it broke me! Unbelievable! Took me almost 2 months to come down from anxiety and depression post breakup. Now he is reaching out again and I’m almost over it, turned off but I feel bad for him. I empathize with him but I don’t get burned again.
Do not let him back in again. Dangerous people overall. You can empathise all you like at a distance.
Is idolatry towards celebrities common with DA's. As well as fairytale daydreaming of a non-existent partner, fantom future? Fantom ex is a thing. After 2 1/2 years of a relationship, i was completely annoyed by the fact she still had old pics of her ex who she said was a serial cheater. Now looking back I realize he probably cheated due to the lack of intimacy. Should have dug deeper on that relationship in the beginning of ours.
Yes, limerence is a classic. The unavailable is alluring to them.
"Daydreaming of fairy tale future partner." Oh yeah.
I found Tawny via Ken and as wonderful as she is on videos , she is even more impressive chatting one to one, She is ultra- perceptive and understands the nuances of dealing with Avoidant partners on a deeply granular level. Amazing lady. . . You’re both legends ❤❤
"My relationship with my ex turned toxic, leading me to make the difficult decision to walk away. Despite the challenges, I couldn't ignore the bond we shared over eight years. With the guidance of a spiritual advisor, we found our way back to each other and are now embracing life together."
@@coreyrae4516 wow! Respect for working through that 😊
Please make a vid about the severity of the physchological/emotional abuse and trauma caused by Fearful Avoidants.
I really need a vid to show people to get ppl to understand better.
Like an hour long vid. Not a short vid.
Hey there, I actually made a reel about this sometime last year on Instagram. Here: instagram.com/tv/CwXb91Ug_2Q/?igsh=aXphMmVlNHRqZjQ4
Right and that's what I did I left it was so unfullfilling they are not worth the pain. Unless they do the work never again.
One red flag is a guy / girl that will turn their emotional pain into a joke. Like your example of their mom dying. Instead of expressing the grief, they make a joke about it, about her, about their feelings. They deflect and seriousness about the pain.
Yes mine did that all the time!
Ken, what do you think about this issue that some youtubers say about APs, that anxious attachments deep down also don't want an emotional connection, that they also sabotage themselves and the relationship, since they would have to deal with their own personal problems? DAs love to repeat this as a standard response to APs online. There's a famous youtuber who says this, they keep quoting Hiedi Priebe.
Whilst I’ve never heard of Heidi Pribe, the arguement that anxious attachers tend to gravitate towards unavailable partners does have truth to it, however, it needs a lot of unpacking. This idea is based on literature from people like Pia Melody and Kerry Cohen’s work on love addiction which basically states that anxious attachers/ love addicts generally have a conscious fear of rejection but a subconscious fear of intimacy. What this means is that anxious attachers will usually reject people who are open and ready for love because it’s not stimulating or fulfilling for them at a subconscious level, and are more drawn to unavailable people - which means the anxious people never have to face their own fears of accepting healthier and more stable love. I do want to state that I don’t believe any anxious attacher consciously looks for unavailable folk. However, I also think it’s important to add context to this statement as many avoidant attachers notoriously also date other avoidants for many similar reasons: they don’t have to worry about being triggered by closeness, they can easily avoid feeling like the bad person if their avoidant partner pulls away and they also don’t have to face their own discomfort of being facing their fears of being vulnerable with someone. In short, I think this comment needs a lot of unpacking as it’s not a simple thing to understand on its own and I can see it being used as a generalisation.
@@KenReidCo Many avoiders told me exactly what you explained. I always thought this Attachment Theory thing was a bit like a recipe, that is, as if people were all the same and experienced relationships the same way. The problem with best sellers (Attached) is this: a generalized simplification.
Heidi Priebe is a psychologist with good content on attachment (she is a youtuber). The goddess of avoidants (they always quote her). A lot of things she brings are very good to reflect on. It's just that sometimes, when she talks about APs, I wonder: where did she get that thought? Who said this is true?
Thanks for the answer!
@@sushisam3010: Avoidant attachers, while choosing avoidant partners may be easier, can also be anxious if their partner displays more avoidant traits than they do. I was avoidant in one of my relationships (I'm generally leaning anxious) because, I eventually realised, I wasn't 100% on moving in and living with them and wasn't seeing the signs I needed to, despite the fact I loved that person very much.
It's all much of a muchness and depends on whether it's causing dysfunction for one or both people in the partnership.
With my DA ex, I didn't know she was DA until 6-7 months in, she downplayed her dismissiveness, showed a lot of affection, even later in the relationship, went through periods of being loving or emotional, and then pulling back. I was pretty assertive, made it clear what I wanted, and she kept coming back. I wouldn't have settled for half a relationship, and when she broke up and left, I took that as a sign (she broke a promise by doing so). I don't think that qualifies me as not wanting to be intimate or to experience love. Subconsciously, that may be what's going on but I don't feel like I was attracted to her because she wasn't mostly consistent with the affection.
Similar thing happened with a girl I knew in my 20s; We dated, I loved her, then 2 years later I find out she has a genetic illness that she thought she wasn't going to be affected by (or didn't know as it hadn't been a problem up until then). I stayed with her because I loved her but things progressively got worse and then I had to leave. Sometimes, situations are just...shitty. And people aren't perfect.
P.S. Heidi Priebe is an admitted dismissive avoidant so...I take everything she says with a grain of salt, as I don't think her motivations are 100% pure and she seems very analytical, which can be good or bad depending on the topic.
💯 on the lack of intimacy after sex. He is like jump up and get food or a shower. Rarely any cuddling
@@Scorpio-dv4ti yeah so many things i couldnt put a finger to, including seemingly not being able to be vulnerable after sex. Always facing away while cuddling or facing you but with eyes closed. I found it so strange.
They won’t move to embrace you first , it’s you that makes the moves , you cuddle them , they avoid cuddling you , you get a kiss. On the cheek not real kisses , all one sided , they won’t change
Mine was VERY cold like that also!!! (while claiming he was in love with me) It breaks your spirit to be in love with someone and they don't want to cuddle, etc. I can't remember him even EVER holding hands, putting his arm around me or ANYTHING. Yes, all affection was one-sided!!! It makes you feel like crap. Really turned out to be a very messed-up, sad person. I do hope he got counseling.
I'm starting to think we can shift between attachment styles. I've been DA sometimes and anxious in others.
Does that mean understanding attachment styles is a waste of time or "not real?" No. Think about it. Let's say you're shy. That's your tendency, even strong tendency. But I bet there are some relationships or contexts where you're not shy at all.
Wondering if there is a connection with loss of childhood memories and DA ?? I once asked the DA his favorite childhood memory with his dad. And he had no answer.. not a single one! Very sad!
Disconnect the emotion from the incident. Hard to do. Probably essential.
He sounded Narcissistic rather than DA
All narcissists are DAs, not every DA is a narcissist though.
I didn't experience many of these signs with my ex, however I did notice something was off about him 6 months in. He was caring, loving,open emotionally, willing to deal with conflict. What I noticed:
- Severe anxiety in every aspect of life (including love life) but really well masked. I only noticed because of my own issues around anxiety.
- Withdrawel from life in game addiction.
- superficial relationships with friends, but also afraid to lose his friends.
- He felt empty and exhausted almost all the time.
He opened up to me more and more during our relationship and I also think that triggered him. I honestly think he tried to fight himself in this until it became too overwhelming and broke up in a brutal way, aka "i feel anxious around you so it must mean I never loved you"
Avoidants remain on good terms with their ex’s 😂 ?? They deny closure and block you
Yes cause we're all trying to get back with an Avoidant and can't leave lol😂
Ken, Why would a AA (I think I'm an avoidant myself) still be mad at me 18 months later when he ended the relationship with me. It was like a light switch went off. One day he liked me the next he was so cold and it was over and I was blocked. I didn't fight it, I was like ok, go. When I have see him in passing a handful of times, and say hello, he sneers at me like in disgust. Never saw this side of him in 3 years. He really liked me no question. Confusing. Love your pod cast. Thank you.
All of your videos are so helpful!! Thank you very much 😊
Great work !
All of the damn cheating. They always return to what they know.
Yesss. DA I knew had no idea what their brother was even doing or what they were studying. Strange for a family member to not even be able to talk about that.
Thank you both. I found this very good.
Will check your other videos with Tawny.
Super :)
28:48
That background makes u look like an inmate sir especially in the thumbnail oi hayt ta brayk it tuh yas
LOLOL!!!!