It’s wild to see such a healthy relationship/conversation between a parent and a child. I feel like this is rare I don’t know anybody who can talk like this with their elders
It's not being denied the wooden spoon. It's being ignored by the person on whom your very physical and psychological existence depends. Misattunement in early childhood is devastating.
Very important point of clarification. At least in being denied the spoon your desire was acknowledged. It is much more painful to be ignored altogether. That is the ultimate implicit message of worthlessness
@@drebugsita Disagree. To have a desire acknowledged and then ignored is no less painful than not having it acknowledged at all. This is as true for adults as it is for children.
Thankfully it's not a race to the bottom. But the way up, it sounds like, or maybe back to wholeness and health, is the same. Or perhaps not. Are there more effective approaches for adult children of trauma, depending on overt abuse versus passive, or unseen, neglect?
Yeah like my mom not changing my diaper as a baby and leaving me on the floor four hours on end while she did drugs on the couch, then getting older and having to drag her to bed so she can wake up early and go to work
Ignoring physiology in this discussion-movement, breath, and mobility-is like sitting in a boat and rowing on the beach, while thinking you're actually on the water. It's akin to attempting to count all the leaves on a tree: incredibly difficult, exhausting, and nearly impossible. Managing emotions by sheer cognitive force in the way they are discussing is what the west has yet understand IS the problem. God be with us 🙏🏼
And the nervous system too. I’ve been a functional freeze shut down response for months now due to multiple trauma events and my mind desperately wants to move on but my body can’t. Movement and somatic work is a huge element that needs addressing. Not just my thoughts.
Certainly, people are meant to move. Still there is little to no quality research which supports " breathwork" and other too readily adopted airy-faery, woo woo approaches to mental and physical health. Exercise? Certainly.
@LM-uq9nv haha, attitude goes a long way. People with closed mindsets about new approaches to healing seldom read the reviews that are positive because it doesn't reinforce what they think they already know. This is another example of how people stay stuck.
Insightful discussion. Sad, society pushes productivity, doing, always lacking, never enough instead of BEING which naturally promotes growth, agency and peace of mind. Perhaps these pushed values in society reflect the plethora of depression, anxiety and suicide.
absolutely, and that is a dysfunctional side effect of the drive to survive that has only very recently become less of an imperative. religions and politics harnessed this as 'ideology' which no longer best serves our needs.
This is cute you get to interview your dad and he wasn't in full dad mode! I appreciate your dad actually mentioned disability and actually being stuck is a real thing cuz 99% of people just assume the disabled are making up excuses and can just move with their pittance SS checks which are fully consumed by the end of the month for the vast majority of them they're lucky to have $1.00 in their check come the last day of it.
This is awesome, and I needed this so much right now. Perfect timing! Thank you for your hard work, time, public service, expertise, experience, and education. You are appreciated!
Wow! I DEEPLY relate to this discussion. I'm currently where you were at in beginning the process of cultivating self-compassion and the desire to take care of yourself and with this I feel hopeful that I'm quickly approaching a breakthrough in my life. Visualizing myself as a loving parent to my child self has helped immensely. I strongly feel that people simply don't deem themselves worthy of being taken care of and this is what leads to self-neglect (physically, financially, emotionally, etc.). Narrowly focusing on taking the smallest possible step forward and reflecting upon how that feels and how you want to feel is a must for those trying to cultivate a sense of agency. Thank you so much for this. I tear up at the kind of relationship you have with your father
I would like to hear more about how a person can recover from brain injury. Actual physical damage as apposed to emotional damage. I have acquired both physical and emotional damage over the years. I love both of your caring mannerisms. There is something very genuinely real about how you both deal with hard topics. Thank you.
I would, too. I appreciated the way they handled this topic though, as I was a bit scared I would feel ashamed by the suggestions as many such videos on this topic fail to recognize all the very difficult complex inner issues that cause people to struggle with stuckness (trauma, brain injuries, menopause, ADHD and other neuro-divergencies, isolation, or even just having too much responsibilities, stress with insufficient sleep, pain mgt, &/or nutrition and other optimal life balances). I also think it is criminal for governments to allow financial companies to withhold services and claims from vulnerable people who are "stuck" in inability to keep up with time-limited large confusing amounts of paperwork hoop-jumping that then act as barriers that worsens the challenges of those in need of better supports tied to those institutions.
I want to fully endorse Rick’s idea for sound effects whenever he makes a list. I specifically love the idea of having one “special” sound effect for the last point! 😅🎉
It is actually not always true at all. Life is full of luck and happenstance! Happiness share the root of happenstance! Sometimes you let go and things happen!
I loved this episode! One of my favorites. I loved that you and Rick were together in your studio. Your chemistry is so wonderful and I think it was even better with you both in the same room.
You dear sweet humans are blowing my mind with your timing. Haven't listened yet but already feeling more at ease seeing this resource. Thank you so much for all you do! It's an absolute joy to tune in every week, my father-son friends.
The relationship between you and your dad makes me sad and angry about my own relationship to my parents, but also happy for you. It's beautiful. This video was GORGEOUS. Thank you.
every pol sci student should be acutely aware of this issue. control is seemingly the pathological primary objective of elitist, facistic politics and the subordination of the sovereign, individual locus of control is the state of 'learned helplessness' it aims to achieve. understanding these dynamics as well as we do today puts humanity at unprecedented risk of such abuse.
This is such a beautiful discussion, especially between father and son. The back-and-forth acknowledgement is lovely. It’s evident you’ve both done the work and are continuing that effort. Thank you for offering meaningful content.
Wow! Great discussion! Need this! Thank you! ❤ During childhood anything less than perfect, like getting an A, not an A+, led to criticism. I can break through with encouragement and support. Without that, the thought of doing anything challenging leads to inertia. Sometimes I break through anyway. But sometimes avoid. So going to. Iisten to this again! 😊
I wish Forrest had said more about why he felt people thought certain things about him. Who didn't like his behaviour? More context would have helped me better understand the work he did on himself. Both Forrest and his Rick seem to have strong relationships with each other and their respective spouse so more on why they feel this way would be helpful. And I love that Rick reflects on therapy. Thanks both.
I really appreciated this episode and the conversation about change and lack of effort, thanks Dr. Rick for your expertise and invaluable perspectives. I’m grateful to you both for being vulnerable and sharing personal stories that were touching, relatable and helpful. I vote for more episodes with you both sharing the same physical space, it added a very nice unified element we don’t often see in this more remote/virtual world. Keep up the great work!!
Sir, you are speaking into everyday if my life since I became aware. I'm so relieved that I could cry. Thank you for swelling up what I've been looking for ever since I was handed Tara Brach's Radical Acceptance book. I'm so relieved and feel so much more less prone to things.
27:49 Thank you so much for this. I’m in my late thirties and I think if I can switch to a growth mindset it will transform my life. I’m very outcome oriented, but I like process. I’m going to lean more into a growth mindset. Thank you.
Over the years I've come to realize that just like needing dark to appreciate light, we need people of different tendencies to know what we want and don't want. When I see clearly my chosen orientation, I have no choice but to follow gladly. When my movement it muddied, choices are everywhere. What lifts me up and tears me down. Where is my free will, my autonomy, and why would it be necessary if I am still a work in progress? Negative consequences have to exist. If no alcoholic ever died of their actions why would any stop?
Totally loved this episode. It clarified so much of what l have been doing but not really seeing and feeling how far l have come. Great boost to reframing how l view my journey in a positive way and realizing l am okay and loved.
Same here! Its so freeing to hear it articulated so well! I imagine we lose a bit of our language or articulation abilities when weve been in learned helpelessness situations and numbed over from its contineous presence in our daily life. Thats so tragic. Wish there was some sort of a magic healing wound that we can point at a problemand have a full study & analysis of it with all the possible healing paths 😂
@@A_T__ yes l wish that was possible because this journey is hard, but hearing your thoughts and guidance from Rick and Forest helps me feel connected and not alone. It gives me the courage to self regulate and know l can do it now.
This father speaks with so much knowledge and wisdom. Omgosh everything he says is so true. Some of us were told to keep quiet, stop laughing so loudly, why are you so childish, girls don’t do this, girls don’t do that so you just dumbed yourself down into nothing! 😓 Intentionally trying to change my life daily and grateful for all these helpful videos on TH-cam as some of us can’t afford therapy. Thank you ❤
Thank you, so much of value in this conversation between you both . I feel Rick was more relaxed in this setting....in the same room . There is always so much to take away from your podcast so I am grateful for your summary Forrest .
I've seen two podcast episodes today and I just want to say thank you for also including how the topic relates or is modified by or exists when through the lens of chronic illness. Sometimes I have a hard time relating these types of podcast (nexus of trauma + behavior -or adjacent to that) because I find many aren't as obviously applicable. Your nuanced and inclusive podcast episodes are so helpful to conceptualize these topics
This was excellent. I also enjoyed your synopsis at the end. You are always so adept at powerfully presenting the salient points of your discussions. As for having you both in the same room, It was actually nice to “feel” the interplay between you both. It was a different dynamic for the viewer.
Thanks guys... This is timely advice for me. I look forward to putting some of this into practice and trying some things again with more satisfying results.
My mother shared “I didn’t know you could have fun with your own children, until I saw the maid playing with your baby brother and laughing.” Misattunement in a parent creates a preventable course of events for a child’s life.
If I’m going to be criticized either way, I’d rather be criticized for not putting in any effort rather than exhaust myself and put in a bunch of effort only to get the same outcome. I’m actually terrified of doing my best only to be criticized, mocked or belittled. That was my childhood, and it’s hard to convince myself that my own encouragement, appreciation and praise is enough.
I think it could be helpful to make an episode that considered specifically (‘cleanly’) change from the angle of self-compassion, shame, and the autonomic nervous system.
Thank you for this. A lot if us don't have resources to make the changes needed. But you guys give us the tools for awareness, and we are very grateful. Bless both of you.
I think 80% of my problem is self efficacy instead of self esteem. I am not a selfish, lazy mean person. I just cant seem to get done to accomplish the things that grown ups are supposed to get done. Much of my interpersonal difficulties are a defensiveness and a lack of experience being at ease with other people because I have SUCH A HUGE list of "gotta get done and should already have done." Totally assuming that everyone else is just getting it done like a boss. As you can imagine, this results in my shoe being nailed to the floor careerwise. Think I will listen to this podcast several times.
I often find your podcasts helpful. This one really hit home. I've been feeling so stuck. That was essentially what today's therapy session came down to. I really need to tear this apart. What am I gaining by being stuck?
I can’t really explain how I feel right now, but I really enjoyed this episode and it was beautiful watching both of you talk to each other in such an open minded and lovely way. Great episode, great content in general. I came across your work today on Spotify and I’ve been bindge listening/watching your episodes the whole day 😅 so inspiring! Keep up with the great work. Cheers from Luxembourg!
60 yrs old and this learned helplessness and resulting isolation has left me with a life without social aupport , never married no kids. I just gave up 7 years ago and basically only accomplishing working. Things have devolved to the point where I not taking care of day to day stuff and now Im scared to even dig into the pile of mail and email (which I dont check). The sinking feeling is growing. I wish I had someone to talk me tbrough what i need to do I'm embarrassed and the fear of whats ahead if me is indescribable.
You're not alone. Many people feel this way and it's not just OK but is understandable to seek outside help. I'd recommend starting with looking for support services in your area. Perhaps a group or a charitable organization, or a local library may have helpful resources and of course you are already finding great resources online like this podcast so you are already on the right track. One simple shift we can make is to move our thinking towards what we want as opposed to what we don't want / have. You can create a new way of being and in fact I see another episode is available on discovering your wants and needs, so that may be helpful. Be well 🙏
Understood, I'm in the same boat. I have been becoming my own best friend, and have found how angry I have become thinking about all that has been lost to me because of my bad programming. I think the anger was necessary for me to pay attention now and not make more things to be angry about. The anger still rears up now and then, but it's run its course and been replaced with an intense curiosity about who I'm now. Been having fun getting to know myself better, and taking back my life. The calvary ain't coming, I am the calvary.
I “quit” my own life and am in the same boat due to long held trauma. I’m so overwhelmed with the idea of digging out of this hole I dug myself into. You are not alone. Please reach out for help. We can do this and are worthy of navigating our way through the messes we created. Life is calling you! Let’s climb out of our isolation and help ourselves even if it’s difficult.
30:03 i have felt for some time the greatest commodity in our lives has been highjacked by evolving 'ideology'. that commodity is irreplaceable time and productivity is not the best use of our lives. it is important but that has been 'capitalised upon' to the point of pathological dysfunction to the cost of our truly greatest output: close connection (divide and rule! just sayin'!). i would like to have shared your communication on this seminal subject as it points to almost every dysfunction in modern society i have been able to think of, but it is great to see a father and son talk so easily about such deep waters. respect guys. 🙏
Great talk and also what you are saying about the school system 👌🏼 and hat up for very humble way to talk about your position / virtues / strengths as a pupil/person, without being dismissive of others. As well as taking NPF:ers into consideration. So many ppl out there that I know take their success at X as proof that everybody who didn’t “make it” is just not smart/capable enough or not trying hard enough, and I just do not think this is a constructive approach as we se more and more unhealth unfold. We do all have to take responsibility and action regarding our own lives. However we also need to be able to have a constructive discussion about how to set up our societal structures / what is efficient and nurturing environments that promotes a good outcome for most and so on.
I love you both in the same room-it feels even more organic and wholesome. Either way, UBER grateful for this episode and all you both do, thank you so!!
I would love to see you and your dad do an episode/TH-cam video on IFS (Internal Family Systems) and Parts Work!! Specifically for mental illnesses, perfectionism, fears, or whatever else!
I liked when you were in the studio with your partner because I think you were both in the shot. I felt that this way of filming it, both you and Rick in the room but separate frames wasn’t ideal, mainly because the camera positioning didn’t work so well. Between this and the former set up, I’d choose the former as it is much easier on the eye. I feel your chemistry and the lovely warmth between you come across equally well whether or not you are in the same room.
O, and in response to your query at the end ~ I think that your dynamic is really interesting and electric. I've watched a few and gotten a lot of food for thought, both through the information and through witnessing your dynamics.
Love listening to you 2 riff. Wonderful father and son rapor as well as amazing, useful content. Gives one hope. Tks from the other side of the globe 🙏
Helpful episode… Thank you! Re being in the same room… I found it more easy to hear and absorb the information offered when you were each in your own respective environments. Sometimes on this occasion - and with understandable exuberance, you talked over each other or went, at least for me, a little too fast with the flow. That said, Forrest’s summaries are always excellent!
Quite a romp/overview of reasons and mechanism for "being stuck being stuck"!!?. The mindfulness of noticing how there IS EVIDENCE that how we are treated and how many interactions that was based on (and the number of intetactions it will take to change [both internally AND externally] was a profound point I almost missed) BRILLIANT and the rest Thank you. AH. .UK
57:08 resilience is finite. even rock is susceptible to effect. just water will do it given enough time. like boxers, we only have a couple of big fights in us. know that. 🙏
Thank u I feel that I’m constantly trying to change my circumstance but am completely held back by how my body feels all the time which is awful. I don’t have the right emotional support either which makes everything so much harder
@@hummingbird4934 I understand it, and at such times I think it is very important to have self compassion. We need to look into things with compassion, and taking the time we need. No need to create more pressure on ourselves by urge or passing judgement…
i really loved this episode...specially Dr.Hanson when he confronts Forrest initially that the studio room is very well arranged compared to his childhood room...lol...the podcast was insightful
This was very valuable, have made so many notes and wrote pages of journaling based on the ideas in this podcast. Thanks, Forrest. You're also very cute and you and your father make the perfect duo.
In regard to you guys being in one room, it really doesn't look like "one room" on this end. Also, Ricks background was just a white door and a white wall and terribly drab! It is so much nicer to have each of you in a room with your books and plants and stuff on your bookshelves around you and behind you and brightening things up a bit. I understand it means a lot for you guys to be in the same room but if you do it again, please give Rick a plant or something so it's not so drab around him.
Hey, totally fair. We recorded this in my office, and it's not really set up for two people visually. If/when we another session in the future I'll change the sight lines.
@@ForrestHanson Also, I really loved this episode. I totally identified with the dogs with the broken button. It just really triggered me and gave me an opportunity to do some EFT on an aspect I'd only seen part of previously. Hugs to you guys! You totally rock!
I think it would be very helpful if Dr Hanson snr interviewed someone like myself with learned helplessness that was deliberately reinforced by my first partner as an adult. I am a strong person but still struggle to overcome learned helplessness. I am volunteering of Dr Hanson would like to do a recorded session or more with me
I really feel something akin to pure contempt for the so called "scientists" who abuse animals all so they can get published in a peer-reviewed journal. It is absolutely astounding to me that clinicians talk about these "studies" so matter of factly as if it's not only acceptable, but also not a form of animal abuse to *knowingly* and *intentionally* subject these poor dogs to pain they otherwise would not encounter in their natural life, and for an extended period of time. It is psychological and physical abuse, plus emotional neglect. It's absolutely sickening and, worse still, it's unnecessary. smh ...and yes, I went to an academically rigorous research institution where I learned that this kind of abusive "research" also takes place. Just last night walking on the UC Berkeley campus, I walked right past that animal research laboratory (actually 2 different ones) knowing the animals in those cages are suffering a myriad of unnecessary pain, harm, and what many would call torture, and most definitely death (because this I saw first hand back in 2006-7), all so these empathy-deficient researchers can get published and keep (or get new) funding. No, I am not one of the nut-jobs who screams through megaphones and protests to get on the evening news because that has done little to nothing to affect change over many decades. This study @10:00 *did NOTHING to help explain why humans behave in certain ways*. All it did was get researchers published in academic journals so they could *maybe* get their next round of funding to pay the expenses of their lab, their stipends, etc. The canine neurophysiology is not the same as human neurophysiology. Those poor dogs suffered unnecessarily, all for a single journal article that proved NOTHING about human behavior, only how (some) dogs will behave. This abuse was so traumatizing for these dogs that he talks about them *thrashing about* trying to get away from the pain that was, quite literally, being forced on them, and them traumatized these dogs so severely that it took...and I quote from this guy's father, "dozens, literally hundreds of trials to retrain the [torture] group of dogs". So very glad I started my Monday morning with this podcast....smh It is absolutely sickening that this goes on, that it called "science", and that most clinicians are so empathy-deficient and morally bereft that they can't see how horrific it is that dogs (and animal, really) are put through this kind of torture and that it traumatizes them so severely, and then compare it to the human brain which is quite different structurally. Those dogs had feelings, had emotional needs that were ignored, and deserved BASIC SAFETY. I'm sure this comment will be promptly deleted for calling out the moral and empathic deficiencies which are rife in academia, and also how casually this man's father talks about what these vulnerable, unsuspecting, sweet animals endured and how long it too for them to recover from the trauma (i.e. dozens, literally hundreds of trials to undo the harm they did to them).
That wasn't an experiment in learned helplessness, that dogs spirit was broken by the experimenter much like parents, siblings, teachers and peers do. Am I wrong?
@@ForrestHanson I believe learned helplessness occurs because a parent didn't foster independence but instead dependence. (Suffocating) A broken spirit occurs from deliberately administering abuse, like electrocution .
It’s wild to see such a healthy relationship/conversation between a parent and a child. I feel like this is rare I don’t know anybody who can talk like this with their elders
🙏💖I fully agree!
It's not being denied the wooden spoon. It's being ignored by the person on whom your very physical and psychological existence depends. Misattunement in early childhood is devastating.
Very important point of clarification. At least in being denied the spoon your desire was acknowledged. It is much more painful to be ignored altogether. That is the ultimate implicit message of worthlessness
@@drebugsita Disagree. To have a desire acknowledged and then ignored is no less painful than not having it acknowledged at all. This is as true for adults as it is for children.
Thankfully it's not a race to the bottom.
But the way up, it sounds like, or maybe back to wholeness and health, is the same.
Or perhaps not.
Are there more effective approaches for adult children of trauma, depending on overt abuse versus passive, or unseen, neglect?
misattunement = neglect
Yeah like my mom not changing my diaper as a baby and leaving me on the floor four hours on end while she did drugs on the couch, then getting older and having to drag her to bed so she can wake up early and go to work
I enjoy your parent-son relationship.. always delightful to see it
Ignoring physiology in this discussion-movement, breath, and mobility-is like sitting in a boat and rowing on the beach, while thinking you're actually on the water. It's akin to attempting to count all the leaves on a tree: incredibly difficult, exhausting, and nearly impossible. Managing emotions by sheer cognitive force in the way they are discussing is what the west has yet understand IS the problem.
God be with us 🙏🏼
And the nervous system too. I’ve been a functional freeze shut down response for months now due to multiple trauma events and my mind desperately wants to move on but my body can’t. Movement and somatic work is a huge element that needs addressing. Not just my thoughts.
Certainly, people are meant to move. Still there is little to no quality research which supports " breathwork" and other too readily adopted airy-faery, woo woo approaches to mental and physical health. Exercise? Certainly.
@@LM-uq9nv of course there is evidence that breathwork helps with managing mental health issues. Just go to google scholar and find out
Agreed somatic work is key. Emotion and feeling only exist in the body not the head! It’s amazing how people don’t understand this
@LM-uq9nv haha, attitude goes a long way. People with closed mindsets about new approaches to healing seldom read the reviews that are positive because it doesn't reinforce what they think they already know. This is another example of how people stay stuck.
This is an exceptionally valuable episode.
Thanks Steve! Always appreciate it.
To listen and watch for an hour makes me feel I've gained a hundred thousand hours.Thank you to you and your dad.
As someone going through a life transition, I highly appreciate this episode 🙏
Insightful discussion.
Sad, society pushes productivity, doing, always lacking, never enough instead of BEING which naturally promotes growth, agency and peace of mind.
Perhaps these pushed values in society reflect the plethora of depression, anxiety and suicide.
absolutely, and that is a dysfunctional side effect of the drive to survive that has only very recently become less of an imperative. religions and politics harnessed this as 'ideology' which no longer best serves our needs.
This is cute you get to interview your dad and he wasn't in full dad mode!
I appreciate your dad actually mentioned disability and actually being stuck is a real thing cuz 99% of people just assume the disabled are making up excuses and can just move with their pittance SS checks which are fully consumed by the end of the month for the vast majority of them they're lucky to have $1.00 in their check come the last day of it.
Indeed!❤
You can remind a person that is stuck to GET ON THEIR OWN SIDE.
This is awesome, and I needed this so much right now. Perfect timing! Thank you for your hard work, time, public service, expertise, experience, and education. You are appreciated!
Wow! I DEEPLY relate to this discussion. I'm currently where you were at in beginning the process of cultivating self-compassion and the desire to take care of yourself and with this I feel hopeful that I'm quickly approaching a breakthrough in my life. Visualizing myself as a loving parent to my child self has helped immensely. I strongly feel that people simply don't deem themselves worthy of being taken care of and this is what leads to self-neglect (physically, financially, emotionally, etc.). Narrowly focusing on taking the smallest possible step forward and reflecting upon how that feels and how you want to feel is a must for those trying to cultivate a sense of agency. Thank you so much for this. I tear up at the kind of relationship you have with your father
I would like to hear more about how a person can recover from brain injury. Actual physical damage as apposed to emotional damage. I have acquired both physical and emotional damage over the years.
I love both of your caring mannerisms. There is something very genuinely real about how you both deal with hard topics. Thank you.
I would, too.
I appreciated the way they handled this topic though, as I was a bit scared I would feel ashamed by the suggestions as many such videos on this topic fail to recognize all the very difficult complex inner issues that cause people to struggle with stuckness (trauma, brain injuries, menopause, ADHD and other neuro-divergencies, isolation, or even just having too much responsibilities, stress with insufficient sleep, pain mgt, &/or nutrition and other optimal life balances).
I also think it is criminal for governments to allow financial companies to withhold services and claims from vulnerable people who are "stuck" in inability to keep up with time-limited large confusing amounts of paperwork hoop-jumping that then act as barriers that worsens the challenges of those in need of better supports tied to those institutions.
Forrest, your dad is so cool. The laugh you guys share at 38:15 is wholesome.
I want to fully endorse Rick’s idea for sound effects whenever he makes a list. I specifically love the idea of having one “special” sound effect for the last point! 😅🎉
“The only thing that guarantees failure in the future is not trying”
It is actually not always true at all.
Life is full of luck and happenstance! Happiness share the root of happenstance!
Sometimes you let go and things happen!
My experience is that self-efficacy is a reflection of privilege.
I loved this episode! One of my favorites. I loved that you and Rick were together in your studio. Your chemistry is so wonderful and I think it was even better with you both in the same room.
I loved seeing you both in the same room together, and your body language communications. Beautiful!
Psychotherapy plus wisdom plus great relationship across generation 🎉🎉 gratitude to u 🎉❤
You dear sweet humans are blowing my mind with your timing. Haven't listened yet but already feeling more at ease seeing this resource. Thank you so much for all you do! It's an absolute joy to tune in every week, my father-son friends.
Me too. I always think how lucky Forrest is to have such a patient dad. They work so well together.
Very useful podcast, thank you 😊.
Let me just write you a comment to express the amount of appreciation I have for you guys ❤
Thanks so much for everything you both do!
The relationship between you and your dad makes me sad and angry about my own relationship to my parents, but also happy for you. It's beautiful. This video was GORGEOUS. Thank you.
every pol sci student should be acutely aware of this issue.
control is seemingly the pathological primary objective of elitist, facistic politics and the subordination of the sovereign, individual locus of control is the state of 'learned helplessness' it aims to achieve.
understanding these dynamics as well as we do today puts humanity at unprecedented risk of such abuse.
This is such a beautiful discussion, especially between father and son. The back-and-forth acknowledgement is lovely. It’s evident you’ve both done the work and are continuing that effort. Thank you for offering meaningful content.
Wow! Great discussion! Need this! Thank you! ❤
During childhood anything less than perfect, like getting an A, not an A+, led to criticism. I can break through with encouragement and support. Without that, the thought of doing anything challenging leads to inertia. Sometimes I break through anyway. But sometimes avoid.
So going to. Iisten to this again! 😊
I wish Forrest had said more about why he felt people thought certain things about him. Who didn't like his behaviour? More context would have helped me better understand the work he did on himself. Both Forrest and his Rick seem to have strong relationships with each other and their respective spouse so more on why they feel this way would be helpful. And I love that Rick reflects on therapy. Thanks both.
I really appreciated this episode and the conversation about change and lack of effort, thanks Dr. Rick for your expertise and invaluable perspectives. I’m grateful to you both for being vulnerable and sharing personal stories that were touching, relatable and helpful. I vote for more episodes with you both sharing the same physical space, it added a very nice unified element we don’t often see in this more remote/virtual world. Keep up the great work!!
Thank you!
It was quite wonderful to see y’all together! 💕👏🏻
Thank you! Wonderful and encouraging conversations.
I'm new here and you two are wonderful! I will be back. This info is so needed in my life.
Sir, you are speaking into everyday if my life since I became aware. I'm so relieved that I could cry. Thank you for swelling up what I've been looking for ever since I was handed Tara Brach's Radical Acceptance book. I'm so relieved and feel so much more less prone to things.
So stuck 😢 TY!
I absolutely love your show. Thank you so much for providing such helpful content. It definitely improves my life.
Wow, really insightful
27:49 Thank you so much for this. I’m in my late thirties and I think if I can switch to a growth mindset it will transform my life. I’m very outcome oriented, but I like process. I’m going to lean more into a growth mindset. Thank you.
Over the years I've come to realize that just like needing dark to appreciate light, we need people of different tendencies to know what we want and don't want.
When I see clearly my chosen orientation, I have no choice but to follow gladly.
When my movement it muddied, choices are everywhere. What lifts me up and tears me down.
Where is my free will, my autonomy, and why would it be necessary if I am still a work in progress?
Negative consequences have to exist.
If no alcoholic ever died of their actions why would any stop?
Totally loved this episode. It clarified so much of what l have been doing but not really seeing and feeling how far l have come. Great boost to reframing how l view my journey in a positive way and realizing l am okay and loved.
Same here! Its so freeing to hear it articulated so well! I imagine we lose a bit of our language or articulation abilities when weve been in learned helpelessness situations and numbed over from its contineous presence in our daily life. Thats so tragic. Wish there was some sort of a magic healing wound that we can point at a problemand have a full study & analysis of it with all the possible healing paths 😂
@@A_T__ yes l wish that was possible because this journey is hard, but hearing your thoughts and guidance from Rick and Forest helps me feel connected and not alone. It gives me the courage to self regulate and know l can do it now.
Learned helplessness is so misunderstood by most therapists and life coaches.
Thank you for addressing this issue and Dr Hanson does seem to get it. 😊
This father speaks with so much knowledge and wisdom. Omgosh everything he says is so true. Some of us were told to keep quiet, stop laughing so loudly, why are you so childish, girls don’t do this, girls don’t do that so you just dumbed yourself down into nothing! 😓 Intentionally trying to change my life daily and grateful for all these helpful videos on TH-cam as some of us can’t afford therapy. Thank you ❤
These podcasts are incredible, thanks so much for the content, really appreciate the both of you
Thank you, so much of value in this conversation between you both . I feel Rick was more relaxed in this setting....in the same room . There is always so much to take away from your podcast so I am grateful for your summary Forrest .
I've seen two podcast episodes today and I just want to say thank you for also including how the topic relates or is modified by or exists when through the lens of chronic illness. Sometimes I have a hard time relating these types of podcast (nexus of trauma + behavior -or adjacent to that) because I find many aren't as obviously applicable. Your nuanced and inclusive podcast episodes are so helpful to conceptualize these topics
This was excellent. I also enjoyed your synopsis at the end. You are always so adept at powerfully presenting the salient points of your discussions. As for having you both in the same room, It was actually nice to “feel” the interplay between you both. It was a different dynamic for the viewer.
I truly enjoy the vibe of your discussions and encouragements with Rick. Keep going please, and thankyou.😊
Thanks guys... This is timely advice for me. I look forward to putting some of this into practice and trying some things again with more satisfying results.
You provide a beautiful model of a mature father / son relationship.
My mother shared “I didn’t know you could have fun with your own children, until I saw the maid playing with your baby brother and laughing.” Misattunement in a parent creates a preventable course of events for a child’s life.
If I’m going to be criticized either way, I’d rather be criticized for not putting in any effort rather than exhaust myself and put in a bunch of effort only to get the same outcome. I’m actually terrified of doing my best only to be criticized, mocked or belittled. That was my childhood, and it’s hard to convince myself that my own encouragement, appreciation and praise is enough.
I think it could be helpful to make an episode that considered specifically (‘cleanly’) change from the angle of self-compassion, shame, and the autonomic nervous system.
You guys are great together, you’re modeling how it should be for us, thank you 😊
Thank you so much
Thank you for this. A lot if us don't have resources to make the changes needed. But you guys give us the tools for awareness, and we are very grateful. Bless both of you.
I think 80% of my problem is self efficacy instead of self esteem. I am not a selfish, lazy mean person. I just cant seem to get done to accomplish the things that grown ups are supposed to get done. Much of my interpersonal difficulties are a defensiveness and a lack of experience being at ease with other people because I have SUCH A HUGE list of "gotta get done and should already have done." Totally assuming that everyone else is just getting it done like a boss. As you can imagine, this results in my shoe being nailed to the floor careerwise. Think I will listen to this podcast several times.
Favorite episode so far!
Love this!
Please keep this channel going, it’s so necessary! Please don’t sell out like everyone else
I often find your podcasts helpful. This one really hit home. I've been feeling so stuck. That was essentially what today's therapy session came down to. I really need to tear this apart. What am I gaining by being stuck?
I can’t really explain how I feel right now, but I really enjoyed this episode and it was beautiful watching both of you talk to each other in such an open minded and lovely way. Great episode, great content in general. I came across your work today on Spotify and I’ve been bindge listening/watching your episodes the whole day 😅 so inspiring!
Keep up with the great work.
Cheers from Luxembourg!
Thank you!
Great episode! Just shared it with my family :)
60 yrs old and this learned helplessness and resulting isolation has left me with a life without social aupport , never married no kids.
I just gave up 7 years ago and basically only accomplishing working.
Things have devolved to the point where I not taking care of day to day stuff and now Im scared to even dig into the pile of mail and email (which I dont check).
The sinking feeling is growing. I wish I had someone to talk me tbrough what i need to do
I'm embarrassed and the fear of whats ahead if me is indescribable.
You're not alone. Many people feel this way and it's not just OK but is understandable to seek outside help. I'd recommend starting with looking for support services in your area. Perhaps a group or a charitable organization, or a local library may have helpful resources and of course you are already finding great resources online like this podcast so you are already on the right track. One simple shift we can make is to move our thinking towards what we want as opposed to what we don't want / have. You can create a new way of being and in fact I see another episode is available on discovering your wants and needs, so that may be helpful. Be well 🙏
How r u now? I know this feeling, just want to share, feeling with all my heart for you.
Understood, I'm in the same boat.
I have been becoming my own best friend, and have found how angry I have become thinking about all that has been lost to me because of my bad programming.
I think the anger was necessary for me to pay attention now and not make more things to be angry about.
The anger still rears up now and then, but it's run its course and been replaced with an intense curiosity about who I'm now.
Been having fun getting to know myself better, and taking back my life.
The calvary ain't coming, I am the calvary.
I “quit” my own life and am in the same boat due to long held trauma.
I’m so overwhelmed with the idea of digging out of this hole I dug myself into.
You are not alone. Please reach out for help. We can do this and are worthy of navigating our way through the messes we created.
Life is calling you! Let’s climb out of our isolation and help ourselves even if it’s difficult.
30:03 i have felt for some time the greatest commodity in our lives has been highjacked by evolving 'ideology'.
that commodity is irreplaceable time and productivity is not the best use of our lives. it is important but that has been 'capitalised upon' to the point of pathological dysfunction to the cost of our truly greatest output: close connection (divide and rule! just sayin'!).
i would like to have shared your communication on this seminal subject as it points to almost every dysfunction in modern society i have been able to think of, but it is great to see a father and son talk so easily about such deep waters. respect guys. 🙏
Great talk and also what you are saying about the school system 👌🏼 and hat up for very humble way to talk about your position / virtues / strengths as a pupil/person, without being dismissive of others. As well as taking NPF:ers into consideration.
So many ppl out there that I know take their success at X as proof that everybody who didn’t “make it” is just not smart/capable enough or not trying hard enough, and I just do not think this is a constructive approach as we se more and more unhealth unfold.
We do all have to take responsibility and action regarding our own lives. However we also need to be able to have a constructive discussion about how to set up our societal structures / what is efficient and nurturing environments that promotes a good outcome for most and so on.
I reallly like that you do a summary at the end, thanks a lot :)
Sorry to say YES, love you guys in the same room.
I love you both in the same room-it feels even more organic and wholesome. Either way, UBER grateful for this episode and all you both do, thank you so!!
Thanks so much one of the very few encouraging messages I've heard in so long
I would love to see you and your dad do an episode/TH-cam video on IFS (Internal Family Systems) and Parts Work!! Specifically for mental illnesses, perfectionism, fears, or whatever else!
Trumpets for the win!
love this video, learning a lot
I liked when you were in the studio with your partner because I think you were both in the shot. I felt that this way of filming it, both you and Rick in the room but separate frames wasn’t ideal, mainly because the camera positioning didn’t work so well. Between this and the former set up, I’d choose the former as it is much easier on the eye. I feel your chemistry and the lovely warmth between you come across equally well whether or not you are in the same room.
You guys and this are great ~ ~ thanks for all the reflections!
O, and in response to your query at the end ~ I think that your dynamic is really interesting and electric. I've watched a few and gotten a lot of food for thought, both through the information and through witnessing your dynamics.
Love listening to you 2 riff. Wonderful father and son rapor as well as amazing, useful content.
Gives one hope.
Tks from the other side of the globe 🙏
Helpful episode… Thank you! Re being in the same room… I found it more easy to hear and absorb the information offered when you were each in your own respective environments. Sometimes on this occasion - and with understandable exuberance, you talked over each other or went, at least for me, a little too fast with the flow. That said, Forrest’s summaries are always excellent!
Totally makes sense
I love this self help and self confidence booster! Thank you so much!
Quite a romp/overview of reasons and mechanism for "being stuck being stuck"!!?. The mindfulness of noticing how there IS EVIDENCE that how we are treated and how many interactions that was based on (and the number of intetactions it will take to change [both internally AND externally] was a profound point I almost missed) BRILLIANT and the rest Thank you. AH. .UK
These shows are very useful. I have taken many ideas to help someone i love. Much appreciation.
57:08 resilience is finite. even rock is susceptible to effect. just water will do it given enough time.
like boxers, we only have a couple of big fights in us. know that. 🙏
There is a fear that stops people when they are stuck. It is not only lack of effort. Not that easy. I would recommend Porges, polyvagal theory.
Thank u I feel that I’m constantly trying to change my circumstance but am completely held back by how my body feels all the time which is awful. I don’t have the right emotional support either which makes everything so much harder
Oh and I feel helpless in my job which really drains me and I’m not happy at home. So I literally have nowhere to turn
@@hummingbird4934 I understand it, and at such times I think it is very important to have self compassion. We need to look into things with compassion, and taking the time we need. No need to create more pressure on ourselves by urge or passing judgement…
i really loved this episode...specially Dr.Hanson when he confronts Forrest initially that the studio room is very well arranged compared to his childhood room...lol...the podcast was insightful
This was very valuable, have made so many notes and wrote pages of journaling based on the ideas in this podcast. Thanks, Forrest. You're also very cute and you and your father make the perfect duo.
Thank you for this.
Omg - if my son would participate in such nerdy discourse w/me 😻
; - D
oh yes, me too
Great vibe video!a pleasure to watch And reflect:)
This was so powerful!
In regard to you guys being in one room, it really doesn't look like "one room" on this end. Also, Ricks background was just a white door and a white wall and terribly drab! It is so much nicer to have each of you in a room with your books and plants and stuff on your bookshelves around you and behind you and brightening things up a bit. I understand it means a lot for you guys to be in the same room but if you do it again, please give Rick a plant or something so it's not so drab around him.
Hey, totally fair. We recorded this in my office, and it's not really set up for two people visually. If/when we another session in the future I'll change the sight lines.
@@ForrestHanson Also, I really loved this episode. I totally identified with the dogs with the broken button. It just really triggered me and gave me an opportunity to do some EFT on an aspect I'd only seen part of previously. Hugs to you guys! You totally rock!
I think it would be very helpful if Dr Hanson snr interviewed someone like myself with learned helplessness that was deliberately reinforced by my first partner as an adult.
I am a strong person but still struggle to overcome learned helplessness. I am volunteering of Dr Hanson would like to do a recorded session or more with me
Such a great episode. Please remind me (I wasn’t sure if I missed it or not) how do you determine which part/inner child you’re going to talk to?
phenomenal ty
I need this episode on auto replay 😅
I really feel something akin to pure contempt for the so called "scientists" who abuse animals all so they can get published in a peer-reviewed journal. It is absolutely astounding to me that clinicians talk about these "studies" so matter of factly as if it's not only acceptable, but also not a form of animal abuse to *knowingly* and *intentionally* subject these poor dogs to pain they otherwise would not encounter in their natural life, and for an extended period of time. It is psychological and physical abuse, plus emotional neglect. It's absolutely sickening and, worse still, it's unnecessary. smh
...and yes, I went to an academically rigorous research institution where I learned that this kind of abusive "research" also takes place. Just last night walking on the UC Berkeley campus, I walked right past that animal research laboratory (actually 2 different ones) knowing the animals in those cages are suffering a myriad of unnecessary pain, harm, and what many would call torture, and most definitely death (because this I saw first hand back in 2006-7), all so these empathy-deficient researchers can get published and keep (or get new) funding. No, I am not one of the nut-jobs who screams through megaphones and protests to get on the evening news because that has done little to nothing to affect change over many decades.
This study @10:00 *did NOTHING to help explain why humans behave in certain ways*. All it did was get researchers published in academic journals so they could *maybe* get their next round of funding to pay the expenses of their lab, their stipends, etc. The canine neurophysiology is not the same as human neurophysiology. Those poor dogs suffered unnecessarily, all for a single journal article that proved NOTHING about human behavior, only how (some) dogs will behave.
This abuse was so traumatizing for these dogs that he talks about them *thrashing about* trying to get away from the pain that was, quite literally, being forced on them, and them traumatized these dogs so severely that it took...and I quote from this guy's father, "dozens, literally hundreds of trials to retrain the [torture] group of dogs".
So very glad I started my Monday morning with this podcast....smh It is absolutely sickening that this goes on, that it called "science", and that most clinicians are so empathy-deficient and morally bereft that they can't see how horrific it is that dogs (and animal, really) are put through this kind of torture and that it traumatizes them so severely, and then compare it to the human brain which is quite different structurally.
Those dogs had feelings, had emotional needs that were ignored, and deserved BASIC SAFETY. I'm sure this comment will be promptly deleted for calling out the moral and empathic deficiencies which are rife in academia, and also how casually this man's father talks about what these vulnerable, unsuspecting, sweet animals endured and how long it too for them to recover from the trauma (i.e. dozens, literally hundreds of trials to undo the harm they did to them).
Thankyou, my thoughts exactly, very well said ❤ Human beings can be so selfish and cruel, and in modern times should know a lot better
That wasn't an experiment in learned helplessness, that dogs spirit was broken by the experimenter much like parents, siblings, teachers and peers do.
Am I wrong?
Invaluable point,
I rarely hear discussed.
Yeah I think "their spirit was broken" is essentially a more evocative way to refer to learned helplessness.
@@ForrestHanson I believe learned helplessness occurs because a parent didn't foster independence but instead dependence. (Suffocating)
A broken spirit occurs from deliberately administering abuse, like electrocution .
Poor dogs
self efficacy requires sound foundations. you cannot build upon sand. 🙏
moot question: do we need to change our design expectations ...
absolutely! 🙏
I wish my sons had even 1/1000th the respect Forrest has for his father.
"Mildly but painfully electrified"
Gawd..
Yeah, psych research even just a few decades ago could be absolutely brutal.
Are ricks lists anywhere please?? I forget to write them down
"The mistery of wanting..." 🤔
ty
ps. i've just seen that you have raised attachment in your ... catalogue/videography?🤔
awesome. some catching up to do. 😁
We lack a concept of Mastery in the US.