Yeay, more super content! So rather than training while taking work capacity into consideration, train work capacity itself? 😯 I guess my question is How to do that? Do I keep pushing hoping performance would improve on its own while taking minimal rest/recovery. Do i intentionally decrease the volume only when there is injury? Also super curious about that study you brought up in the end, questioning the idea of overtraining itself... Incoming paradigm shift! Keep em coming Bren!
Thanks Naufal! Another wonderful question. So here's a very important distinction, and I'm going to pin your comment so other people see this as well. We can, to a large degree, disregard rest in training, rest essentially being an absence of training, for the reasons in the video. However RECOVERY is extremely important- after all work capacity and recovery are almost different words for the same thing. Here's an example- let's say you're training 3 hours each day. Excellent. You really don't need rest days, but does that mean that you then don't need to bother with recovery things? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Your sleep becomes far more important. Nutrition becomes far more important. Movement, Stress, & active recovery type things throughout the day become much more important- all those things from the EROS study with Paradoxical deconditioning syndrome start to become predictors of whether you're going to make progress and how much.
@@BrenTeachesMovement I see. Thanks for the reply! I'll make sure to keep those factors in check. I was also wondering if this somewhat invalidates supercompensation theory--that you shouldn't train when youre in the trough and train on that sweet spot above previous baseline. Do you think supercompensation is still useful as a concept to base one's training on?
If you can simply lift heavy every day and don't worry about stimulus and recovery, why do no top strength athletes or bodybuilders do that? It's because we have known for decades that muscle mass and strength increase better when there's distinct phases of stimulus and recovery rather than a constant buzz of stimulus. When athletes train every day, they do it to improve SKILLS, not for strength. The clean-and-jerk is a specific skill.
@@MrCmon113 Hey, I agree with what you're saying. But I think the video doesn't talk about maxing out every session do they? Just maximizing general volume not intensity. Thats why they switch their training focus around as well. They also talk about how important recovery is. Maybe the take-away is that people can actually improve their recovery time by increasing training frequency and volume, with the right factors optimized (sleep, nutrition, etc.) The trainability of recovery is often overlooked. What do you think?
@@MrCmon113 Every expression of strength is simultaneously a skill. Some are more complex (gymnastics routine) and some are simpler (deadlift). Both however, involve "greasing the groove" which involves many techniques APART from very heavy load, because you're right about the first critique point (with some very few exceptions like bulgarian weightlifting).
I’ve done the IDM for 3yrs. (Online coaching) The training volume is insane for people with other priorities in life. The gains are great, but you have to sacrifice a lot of time. People got more important things to do than worship movement all day. I don’t regret the sacrifice but I’ve had enough. Great video and content btw.
Ha- yes it is. In any field, sacrifices must be made to reach the highest levels. Cool that you did it- I've heard the newer online platform is better & gives more choices- but I think the online coaching is a far, far second to training with a real teacher in person. Much easier to stay motivated with a group as well. Glad you enjoyed!
There is one thing to put in context though: you can train stupidly intensely for one month and then stop it (stop the extreme volume) and you would keep those gains for ever.
I totally agree. This is not for an adult, having to work and take care of a family. But it's probably amazing for a single person living with their parents.
I've trained top 10 world ranked athletes in three different sports, one of them a world champion and one ranked #2 for years. I couldn't agree more with this video. People just don't train enough relative to their goals.
@@BrenTeachesMovement sorry it did take so long. Mhh I love movement but I also love having a good Physic. What are your exercises to get such a physic? I do move a lot and I train with rings as well but how you got these big arms? Sorry my english is so bad but I hope you get the point ;P
Great message Bren. So to speak first fix your recovery capacity (sleep, stress level) before running ibto 2-3 sessions a day that overload your daily schedule and and current abilities.
As a personal trainer for 20 years, I’ve noticed the effects of overtraining in myself and clients (e.g., poor sleep, lack of drive in a workout, cancelling workouts, poor appetite), so naturally I found your video interesting. I decided to look up the study you included as evidence. It shows that 88.7% of people have negative side effects to excess training, 6.8% people have no side effects, and 4.5% people have positive side effects. Basically, 1 out of 20 people seem to thrive, 1 out of 20 aren’t affected, and 18 out of 20 suffer. Did you perceive the material differently? Am curious on your take!
I believe you are referring to figure 3, "Behaviours of parameters in overtraining syndrome among those that demonstrated adaptive (conditioning) changes in response to athletic training" in Cadegiani and Krater, 2019. You can think about these numbers as what percentages of biomarkers are correlated with overtraining syndrome. It is not saying a certain percentage (e.g. 88.7%) of people have negative side effects due to excess training. It is a subtle but important difference. The analysis aims to produce a model for which biomarkers might be able to identify athletes affected by overtraining syndrome and potentially get at the mechanisms of the underlying disease process.
It is a bit hard to understand if the underrecovery is CAUSED by the extreme training volume or by the habits of the athletes. Would they keep being in that state if they ate more and slept more?
@@eveziroglu Thank you for replying! Quoting the Cadegiani and Kater study: "32 (72.7%) showed a loss of the conditioning effect of exercise ('deconditioning'), 7 (15.9%) showed changes exclusive to OTS, 3 (6.8%) maintained the exercise-induced conditioning effects and 2 (4.5%) revealed an exacerbation of the adaptive changes to exercises." Deconditioning is never a goal and I would say does count as a negative side effect. Who wants to workout and end up in worse shape? But again, maybe I am missing something in the study and the conversation. The study seems to support dialing in optimal training volume as opposed to disregarding volume as a factor.
@@532soldier Again this is describing the correlation between certain markers and de-conditioning. Not saying that 72% of people will lose the condition effects of exercise
At some point everyone overtrains, it's just different for different people. Also it's not just overtraining, it's also how you spread that training out. Distinct phases of stimulus and recovery are better for strength and muscle growth and we've known that since forever. No one simply does heavy squats every day.
When I first started training in the gym we had no clue on training volume so we got Arnold’s training bible , bought whey protein from a dairy farm in 10 lb plastic bags and we were following body building routines from the 90s, doing 2 hour sessions 4 days in a row, completing way more volume than it is recommended today for newbies, and guess what , yes we were extremely sore at the start of each programme but the body got used to it and we made great gains. Only thing is muscles recover faster than tendons and ligaments so it’s an easy recipe for injury
I did distance coaching under Ido when he was just getting started (2011) and he only demanded about 2 hrs/day, 6 days a week, but I can confirm what this video says about two-a-days and about splitting out bent-arm, straight-arm and leg strength workouts. That evidently hasn't changed. My own two major takeaways were a) that I can do two workouts/day and be fine and b) that bent-arm and straight-arm strength are two entirely different things.
Woah! I remember watching your videos before I first started training with Ido! So cool :). I think the format has changed a bit lately, Ido's OC now has videos for instance (finally), and apparently you can choose what topics you want to work on. Anyway cheers and thanks for watching!
ive recently injured myself with very minimal movement confiming my feeling of love movement in my daily life. this video has definitely widen my perspective on the type of workload i take on
It seems to me that Ido's approach is suitable for 2 types of people: 1. Ordinary people that can somehow fit an elite level athlete training into their lives, while actually not being elite level athletes. It is hard to see who these people are, because ordinary life is pretty busy with work, family, friends, hobbies and all... 2. People, who like Bren Veziroglu, want to become a movement trainer. It is an amazing marketing achievement to sell people of the 1st type on the idea of Ido's approach to movement training.
That was a great video and this idea is critical to success in training, but I would say that Pavel Tatsouline was popularizing this back in the 2000s with Grease the Groove
This may have been the most important video to watch recently. I’ve been chasing the volume I used to have when I was working at a gym. I was doing stronglifts 5x5 while also screwing around with unorthodox lifts during my shift when it was slow. All of a sudden, I was in amazing shape while eating terribly and partying often😂now that I’m older and healthier (zero drinking), it seems like increasing volume might just bring me even further than ever before
I love the tone of this video. Unexpectedly it not only reminded me to integrate movement moreso into my daily life but it inspired me that I should be playing my instruments EVERY DAY as a general life philosophy. Subscribed in the hope of more inspirational content -- it would be wonderful to see this 'integrate movement skills into daily practice' concept expanded upon and improvised with in your videos because this priceless daily movement practice is inspirational to and analogous to priceless individual creative mindset in general - we are what we do. Thanks for the reminder!
Neurological and physical strength shouldn’t be synonymous in one’s mind. Yes, skill training and strength responds to frequency. And allows for you to maximally “demonstrate” strength but it’s not the best for longevity or building a strong physique. Our muscles do have a quicker adaption process but it’s detrimental long term with excessive frequency because our joints heal significantly slower. + at a certain point our strength begins to dictate how much load we can handle in a particular session becomes an obstacle because we must train so frequently. Which then leads to training more infrequently as the antidote. So, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze unless you learn to get the recovery variables just right and know when to back off. Which in my experience (no one truly does or can) If not, I could see most people have shoulder, low back, or knee pain trying to implement this principle indefinitely. Even getting to the point of needing to constantly implement pre-hab work and think it’s normal to have slight pain. Which it is not if you’re actually giving your body sufficient rest and putting recovery over forced progress. It’s like the old story or the hare and tortoise. Most people aren’t lucky enough to be able to push high intensity and high frequency without paying the consequences. + don’t use gymnasts as an example because they’re built so different than the average person. Although, I agree that training like one to an extent is useful. You must understand that being short in stature and having the right leverages + strength to body weight ratio is what allows gymnast to excel at many other sports. They’re world class examples of what that type of training can achieve they’re the exception not the rule. So, yes skill training is a viable way to get better at demonstrating strength in a period of time but long term will almost certainly lead to joint problems which we see in most older calisthenics athletes and gymnasts around the world. Seems wiser to train with less frequency if longevity is in mind because joint health and the ability to move long term is better than a temporary demonstration of strength that leads to injury. So, yes skill training for a period of time using just body weight is fine. It’s very similar to Bulgarian training which some people get away with but most people do not. One movement I see this respond better for most people is squat. Doing high frequency shoulder work can work for awhile. I’ve done it w handstands but after awhile I found it foolish to train more often to keep skills because it was for no true purpose. So, if you want to push your body be my guest but be aware of long term potential damage. Because truth is it’s not the smartest way to train. Always respect the relationship between frequency, intensity, and volume of longevity is the goal.
Another video about training volume would be great! It seems to me that for strength there is an appropriate volume for your level of training advancement culminating in two a days at the elite level. But for a beginner I don't think you would recommend twice daily strength training? A skill training like dance practice is a lot less taxing so I can see much greater volumes being used. Thanks for the video!
Look into HIT - high intensity training. Its the gold standard of exercise methods. Tons of gains with short workouts (under 20 mins 2x per week) will get you very strong.
One thing I don´t get about Ido is how he says he´s not focusing on being the best anymore while on the other hand he has his students whose limits he keeps pushing till it´s uncomfortable and humiliating, as I once heard. But I guess that´s just what he has to keep doing as it´s his business and to make profit, you gotta have some results, a business has to be competitive. I personally have acquired the philosophy to stop trying to be the best, learn new stuff and have fun moving. I can do things normal mortals dream of. Also, with trying hard to be better usually come new injuries.
Interesting. So can it be safe to lift heavy and do deadlifts/squats every day, even when sore? Is that not increasing the risk of injury? Thanks, another great vid:)
I think the risk of injury with movements like deadlifts/squats has more to do with form than anything else. If you cannot maintain proper form - due to pain, soreness, muscular or nervous fatigue - you're putting yourself at risk for injury. So once you realise your form is failing, either drop the weight or rest
yes, absolutely. I did a nice program that included squats and deadlifts everyday back late last year and worked quite well- paved the way for my recent deadlift PR I'm sure. I treat soreness as somewhat irrelevant- what you should really pay attention to is function and pain (unrelated to soreness pain). If you're sore and getting stronger, excellent- and this is almost always the case. Sore and getting weaker/worse in your sport (like in the John Broz story) is something I avoid with my students, but honestly I've never pushed anyone hard enough to see it happen (for longer than can be explained by random chance).
Hey Skair, I actually disagree with you here in theory, though I might actually agree on this in practice but for other reasons. Here's the thing, people throw this argument around all the time, but AFAIK there is not a single shred of evidence to support this idea, in vivo, at sub 'jumping off a building' type forces. The way I think about form is more along the lines of standards, consistency, and adaptation- but I'd definitely need a whole video to address that. Let me know If that's something you guys want to see, It's been on my to-do list for a while :).
Also @photonmusik, yes, more training will increase injury risk- that's part of the game (I don't believe there's any evidence to suggest that training while sore increases your injury risk however). But as the saying goes, getting off the couch increases your risk of Rhabdomyolysis by 400%. Should you therefore stay bedridden fearing injury? Then the paradox comes, the longer you stay on the couch, the more getting off the couch will increase your injury risk. It depends how far you want to go really, If you want to be elite in anything, you don't have much of a choice.
Make sense if you're professional athlete e.q. you have that time for the training and you don't have to do any other job. People who works manually works at least eight hours a day as well. It's so natural. I remember once during the high school holiday I had a job as digger. First week or maybe two I was tired, my body hurt, my leg hurt from the work with shovel (yes, there is a technique for work with shovel when you push against the shovel with your leg). After some time I just get used to it. Combining high volume training with every day 9-5 job is another level and not just because of the time but also and mostly the mental pressure. Most of the professional athletes just train and compete and they have all various coaches for all aspects of human being.
Can you do a video on strength plateaus? I’ve been stuck at a 45 second handstand for months. Increasing the frequency and volume doesn’t seem to help. This has been the case for my weighted pull-up as well, I can’t seem to get past 90 pounds for 5 reps.
Hi Bren, I enjoy and appreciate your videos, for me you represent a more independent perspective on movement. I would love to watch a video on how to deal with Paradoxical deconditioning syndrome and how to manage recovery- as in what is important and how to improve it and regulate training through time. Thank you!
would you still advise so. to train multiple hours per day if he had multiple injuries in shoulders, wrists and knees/ankles? Epic content! Looking fw to future vids!
Hi, yes absolutely, however the training would need to change dramatically based on the situation. For instance, are you one week out from defending your title , and the honor of your country at the olympics? How many injuries are there and how responsive are they to the exercises you've tried? Basically yes, but you're going to want to switch the vast majority of your training to rehab depending on the severity of the injuries, response of the injuries to training and rehab, proximity to competition/deadline of some sort, and how easily/ without risk you're able to train around your injuries. If this is your situation, I would say be very careful, address the injuries first, then deal with the training. Check out my video on pain science (th-cam.com/video/lTeYwfI1O68/w-d-xo.html) if you haven't already, and I'll be working on a part 2 that will be more practical/how to based in addition to the book.
I just subscribed, so I guess I want to hear more. Movement is incredibly important for rock climbing, so I can see how this is applicable to almost everything we do with our daily lives. I'm looking forward to some more great content!
0:08 "he (Ido Portal) was like anything I've ever seen, this guy was absolutely brilliant" 1:20 "when I first saw his videos (still Ido Portal) I was honestly not impressed with the stuff he was doing" I'm already confused
I am and was more impressed with his combination of physical prowess and cognitive skill than just the physical skills alone. Great athletes are often a dime a dozen, but great athletes who are brilliant like Ido is are a rare breed
Thanks very much for posting this video. I’m glad that you explained this aspect of Ido’s fitness philosophy. This is poler opposite from many workout philosophies I’m familiar with and I have puzzled over this difference for years.
Hey Bren,thank you so much for the Insight you create in your Videos.It helped me a lot and I do work twice as hard as before,because it is possible by splitting.You motivated me so much man,Have a great Time,see you here.Chris
Coming from bodybuilding, I would have thought this approach is borderline cult material. Then I looked the guy up and he us an exellent lifter himself and seems very reasonable overall. I have started to shift my training the last month or so and have to say it works. Work capacity goes up and I'm really a middle aged woman with injuries. I will look up such programming more.
Man, I.was in great shape and training 4 times a week martial arts. Then I saw Ido basic program and started to train. I got so injured that I never recovered. My spine is now so bad that I lay on bed most of the day, and I was shreded like bruce lee 7 years ago. Any help for spine recovery besides Stuart McGill program?
@@andneomatmj23 Gonstead style chiropractor requires a full spine X-ray (standing up). It's best to get a diagnosis using Xray first (more serious case such as damage to the disc may need MRI).
remind me alot of muay thai camp in thailand. they train 6 days a week for the whole day. sur alot of work on technique but it's still really hard and it takes around 2 week for a westerner to pick up the flow. but we should still not forget that a lot of athlete are using Peds to help them recover in off seasons.
Ha! I love how you said training for the whole day, rather than a certain # of hours. This is a fair point as well, and actually a strong critique of the Bulgarian method overall, is that alot of abajiev's guys were supposedly using steroids as part of the program, and Broz's best athlete got 'popped' for it as well.
Hi , i'll be direct : is there a Big tribe i Don't know who Can Live without a job and never have children to Care to allows her to train between three and eight hours a day? Or is this video just made for young people living in some really cool places where struggling for life is not a question?:) I got a kung-fu blackbelt and an official certification for teaching it but now i'm 45 , it seems impossible to me to train 5 hours a day as i used to do it. I really feel a deep enjoyment for ido portal's méthod but i feel like exluded from it because only pro or trying to be can train the ways you're talking. Hope you'll manage to get my humour and give me an out of pattern answer :)
Hi! Thank you for sharing! I am a fan if Ido Portal. Helpful information for me. Is there any online begginer or foundations course? That also would include how to train smart.
I don't understand how 3000 snatches and cleans are possible. If you did 10 EMOM that would take you 5 hours with each additional minute of rest taking an extra 5 hours. How do you think he programmed that amount of volume in daily?
Thank you dulquar! Ido's said that the goal is 'to be'. kind of like being fully present in a flow state, but it's also the sort of thing where there isn't really a goal or endpoint, the thing is simply to keep working to improve yourself no matter where you're at
Used to train like Ido talked about for 5 years or so. Doesn't work for me so much now. Construction worker, and 3 kids and wife. Just no time for dedicating hours to myself 😂
high volume develops technique and the nervous system faster. It doesn't do shit for bigger muscles, which is why most people train the way they do at gyms. They don't give a damn about having good efficient technique.
So, what I get when you’re saying that «overtraining syndrome» is correlated with self-reported sleep quality, nutrition, etc, is that the more accurate term may be «under-recovering». So, that begs the question: What are good ways to facilitate recovery in general, and especially in context of physical training (personally I’m especially interested in weightlifting and martial arts)
100% agree that over training is a sign of stress in other areas of life. So easy to blame it on snatches when work has gotten quite workish. As pigmie would say you gotta focus.
At some point you're going backwards. It's ridiculous to think that you can just train more and get more adaptations. There's a specific amount of volume you get the best growth with. And then there is more or less wise ways of spreading that volume over a week.
AMAZING video! (as always, these new vids are so informative!) You seem to have a huge amount of knowledge! I would have one question: How is the risk of injuries related to this high volume? Is it just a matter of enough prehab? (If this is too difficult to answer here, could you maybe make a vid on that? Would be epic. Final little question: do you offer online coaching?
Thank you Sir Broccoli! I will attempt to go into that in the future video dive into training volume that you guys are asking for. You can also see my reply above to Bryan about the existence of overtraining. And yes I do offer OC. send me an email if you're interested, I've gotten a few inquiries over the last few days.
Great question. Lots of people do it in all sorts of different ways- you have to figure out something that works for your particular situation. You can look at the olympics and see all sorts of incredible stories of how people find time to train at that high of a level after having kids, while working full time, while in medical school... all sorts of crazy stuff. Some of the things people do: Wake up early and train before work/ everyone else wakes up. Train with your family. Find or create breaks between office work to go train. Or just generally, prioritize movement & health. One of my previous videos addresses this here (th-cam.com/video/slFYNf0fyLY/w-d-xo.html)
I've returned to this video after a while and I'm curious for some reviews or meta-analyses to go over. Any particular studies you think go over this well?
What do you think about a movement practise like tricking. If you don't know tricking is a very taxing sport that makes you flip and twist in the air whilst combining martial arts kicks. It's very off axis most of the time. Do you think it can be practiced with a lot of volume like 5-6 hours a day everyday almost?
The top strength athletes and bodybuilders don't do the same heavy lifts every day. When athletes train every day, they don't do it to build muscle or strength, but to improve their technique. You can get away with super high volume to some degree, but eventually the quality of your workouts suffers a lot and you're really slowing down your progress. And of course if you completely overdo it, you go backwards, not forwards. The smart thing to do is to train your sports specific skills daily and improve your strength and muscle mass like a strength athlete would: with distinct recovery phases.
So after watching this I have a serious question, hope you can help. After 10yrs of bb and some bw training (handstands, human flags etc.) Started exploring movment. So, my wrists get sore very fast due to being lots inverted. Should or should I not continue to train trough the pain? (I have also cronic tendonities both golfers and tennis elbow due to fisical work I did when I was younger but it's not that bad when I train)
Yeay, more super content! So rather than training while taking work capacity into consideration, train work capacity itself? 😯 I guess my question is How to do that? Do I keep pushing hoping performance would improve on its own while taking minimal rest/recovery. Do i intentionally decrease the volume only when there is injury?
Also super curious about that study you brought up in the end, questioning the idea of overtraining itself... Incoming paradigm shift! Keep em coming Bren!
Thanks Naufal! Another wonderful question. So here's a very important distinction, and I'm going to pin your comment so other people see this as well. We can, to a large degree, disregard rest in training, rest essentially being an absence of training, for the reasons in the video. However RECOVERY is extremely important- after all work capacity and recovery are almost different words for the same thing.
Here's an example- let's say you're training 3 hours each day. Excellent. You really don't need rest days, but does that mean that you then don't need to bother with recovery things? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Your sleep becomes far more important. Nutrition becomes far more important. Movement, Stress, & active recovery type things throughout the day become much more important- all those things from the EROS study with Paradoxical deconditioning syndrome start to become predictors of whether you're going to make progress and how much.
@@BrenTeachesMovement I see. Thanks for the reply! I'll make sure to keep those factors in check. I was also wondering if this somewhat invalidates supercompensation theory--that you shouldn't train when youre in the trough and train on that sweet spot above previous baseline. Do you think supercompensation is still useful as a concept to base one's training on?
If you can simply lift heavy every day and don't worry about stimulus and recovery, why do no top strength athletes or bodybuilders do that?
It's because we have known for decades that muscle mass and strength increase better when there's distinct phases of stimulus and recovery rather than a constant buzz of stimulus.
When athletes train every day, they do it to improve SKILLS, not for strength. The clean-and-jerk is a specific skill.
@@MrCmon113 Hey, I agree with what you're saying. But I think the video doesn't talk about maxing out every session do they? Just maximizing general volume not intensity. Thats why they switch their training focus around as well. They also talk about how important recovery is.
Maybe the take-away is that people can actually improve their recovery time by increasing training frequency and volume, with the right factors optimized (sleep, nutrition, etc.) The trainability of recovery is often overlooked. What do you think?
@@MrCmon113 Every expression of strength is simultaneously a skill. Some are more complex (gymnastics routine) and some are simpler (deadlift). Both however, involve "greasing the groove" which involves many techniques APART from very heavy load, because you're right about the first critique point (with some very few exceptions like bulgarian weightlifting).
I’ve done the IDM for 3yrs. (Online coaching) The training volume is insane for people with other priorities in life. The gains are great, but you have to sacrifice a lot of time. People got more important things to do than worship movement all day. I don’t regret the sacrifice but I’ve had enough. Great video and content btw.
Ha- yes it is. In any field, sacrifices must be made to reach the highest levels. Cool that you did it- I've heard the newer online platform is better & gives more choices- but I think the online coaching is a far, far second to training with a real teacher in person. Much easier to stay motivated with a group as well. Glad you enjoyed!
Agreed. There is more to life.
There is one thing to put in context though: you can train stupidly intensely for one month and then stop it (stop the extreme volume) and you would keep those gains for ever.
I totally agree. This is not for an adult, having to work and take care of a family. But it's probably amazing for a single person living with their parents.
@@LifeandLiesSyra
No, you wouldn't. Your body gets rid of muscle asap.
Also one month?! That's stupidly short in matters of hypertrophy.
I've trained top 10 world ranked athletes in three different sports, one of them a world champion and one ranked #2 for years. I couldn't agree more with this video. People just don't train enough relative to their goals.
Bullshit. Show me one "world ranked" athlete doing heavy squats every day.
@@MrCmon113 What on Earth are you talking about?
I have been waiting for this.
Pls do more of this great stuff!
Greetings from Germany
Hey Manji, Thank you! So cool to have viewers in different countries. What specifically would you like to see more of?
@@BrenTeachesMovement sorry it did take so long.
Mhh I love movement but I also love having a good Physic. What are your exercises to get such a physic? I do move a lot and I train with rings as well but how you got these big arms?
Sorry my english is so bad but I hope you get the point ;P
Great message Bren. So to speak first fix your recovery capacity (sleep, stress level) before running ibto 2-3 sessions a day that overload your daily schedule and and current abilities.
As a personal trainer for 20 years, I’ve noticed the effects of overtraining in myself and clients (e.g., poor sleep, lack of drive in a workout, cancelling workouts, poor appetite), so naturally I found your video interesting. I decided to look up the study you included as evidence. It shows that 88.7% of people have negative side effects to excess training, 6.8% people have no side effects, and 4.5% people have positive side effects. Basically, 1 out of 20 people seem to thrive, 1 out of 20 aren’t affected, and 18 out of 20 suffer. Did you perceive the material differently? Am curious on your take!
I believe you are referring to figure 3, "Behaviours of parameters in overtraining syndrome among those that demonstrated adaptive (conditioning) changes in response to athletic training" in Cadegiani and Krater, 2019. You can think about these numbers as what percentages of biomarkers are correlated with overtraining syndrome. It is not saying a certain percentage (e.g. 88.7%) of people have negative side effects due to excess training. It is a subtle but important difference. The analysis aims to produce a model for which biomarkers might be able to identify athletes affected by overtraining syndrome and potentially get at the mechanisms of the underlying disease process.
It is a bit hard to understand if the underrecovery is CAUSED by the extreme training volume or by the habits of the athletes. Would they keep being in that state if they ate more and slept more?
@@eveziroglu Thank you for replying! Quoting the Cadegiani and Kater study: "32 (72.7%) showed a loss of the conditioning effect of exercise ('deconditioning'), 7 (15.9%) showed changes exclusive to OTS, 3 (6.8%) maintained the exercise-induced conditioning effects and 2 (4.5%) revealed an exacerbation of the adaptive changes to exercises." Deconditioning is never a goal and I would say does count as a negative side effect. Who wants to workout and end up in worse shape? But again, maybe I am missing something in the study and the conversation. The study seems to support dialing in optimal training volume as opposed to disregarding volume as a factor.
@@532soldier Again this is describing the correlation between certain markers and de-conditioning. Not saying that 72% of people will lose the condition effects of exercise
At some point everyone overtrains, it's just different for different people.
Also it's not just overtraining, it's also how you spread that training out. Distinct phases of stimulus and recovery are better for strength and muscle growth and we've known that since forever. No one simply does heavy squats every day.
This is a video I like to come back to as a reminder now and again. The truth is simple.
My man, this channel is pure gold!
Much love from Austria :)
Thank you Johannes! Sending love back from California!
When I first started training in the gym we had no clue on training volume so we got Arnold’s training bible , bought whey protein from a dairy farm in 10 lb plastic bags and we were following body building routines from the 90s, doing 2 hour sessions 4 days in a row, completing way more volume than it is recommended today for newbies, and guess what , yes we were extremely sore at the start of each programme but the body got used to it and we made great gains. Only thing is muscles recover faster than tendons and ligaments so it’s an easy recipe for injury
I did distance coaching under Ido when he was just getting started (2011) and he only demanded about 2 hrs/day, 6 days a week, but I can confirm what this video says about two-a-days and about splitting out bent-arm, straight-arm and leg strength workouts. That evidently hasn't changed. My own two major takeaways were a) that I can do two workouts/day and be fine and b) that bent-arm and straight-arm strength are two entirely different things.
Woah! I remember watching your videos before I first started training with Ido! So cool :). I think the format has changed a bit lately, Ido's OC now has videos for instance (finally), and apparently you can choose what topics you want to work on. Anyway cheers and thanks for watching!
It hasn't changed cause its the still same generic set of strength programs everyone gets for the first few years ;)
@@BrenTeachesMovement that is indeed really cool. Thanks for letting me know!
ive recently injured myself with very minimal movement confiming my feeling of love movement in my daily life. this video has definitely widen my perspective on the type of workload i take on
My mentor would also quote"Perfect practice,makes perfect." I love the content of your site. Thank you!
Really really good. 30 years of training and I agree entirely!
What a beautiful video! Thank you for putting it together. With greetings from Cape Town.
Appreciate the video 🙌🏼
Interesting video and inspirational. Thank you for uploading this.
You're making me want to drop my sports science degree
this was an amazing video. so informative, so well done. will be sharing
Just discovered your channel, great information dude. Thanks for sharing and keep the amazing work. 👊🏼
Who the hell that only wants to train as a piece of their life and not the Centerpoint is spending 4 5 or 6 hrs a day doing it.
It seems to me that Ido's approach is suitable for 2 types of people:
1. Ordinary people that can somehow fit an elite level athlete training into their lives, while actually not being elite level athletes. It is hard to see who these people are, because ordinary life is pretty busy with work, family, friends, hobbies and all...
2. People, who like Bren Veziroglu, want to become a movement trainer.
It is an amazing marketing achievement to sell people of the 1st type on the idea of Ido's approach to movement training.
Keep grinding , love your videos
That was a great video and this idea is critical to success in training, but I would say that Pavel Tatsouline was popularizing this back in the 2000s with Grease the Groove
This may have been the most important video to watch recently. I’ve been chasing the volume I used to have when I was working at a gym. I was doing stronglifts 5x5 while also screwing around with unorthodox lifts during my shift when it was slow. All of a sudden, I was in amazing shape while eating terribly and partying often😂now that I’m older and healthier (zero drinking), it seems like increasing volume might just bring me even further than ever before
THIS is the type of video I watch and immediately rewatch! keep it up man!
Can I reach out to you?
Greetz, Ernst
Sure! Thanks Ernst
I love the tone of this video. Unexpectedly it not only reminded me to integrate movement moreso into my daily life but it inspired me that I should be playing my instruments EVERY DAY as a general life philosophy. Subscribed in the hope of more inspirational content -- it would be wonderful to see this 'integrate movement skills into daily practice' concept expanded upon and improvised with in your videos because this priceless daily movement practice is inspirational to and analogous to priceless individual creative mindset in general - we are what we do. Thanks for the reminder!
I've seen several videos about Ido Portal but yours was the most compelling and actually will change my exercise routines for the better. Thank you!
Make another video, Man! That is what I'm looking for.
Thank you Bren. This was a really enlightening video for me, and I will try to apply it in my training ASAP!
Excellent Jimmy! Nice work with the Front lever btw- I will get back to you on your message soon :)
Hope one day when l reach my demoralized phase , I’ll come back to rewatch this video again
So much love for this brother, amazing.
Neurological and physical strength shouldn’t be synonymous in one’s mind.
Yes, skill training and strength responds to frequency.
And allows for you to maximally “demonstrate” strength but it’s not the best for longevity or building a strong physique.
Our muscles do have a quicker adaption process but it’s detrimental long term with excessive frequency because our joints heal significantly slower. + at a certain point our strength begins to dictate how much load we can handle in a particular session becomes an obstacle because we must train so frequently. Which then leads to training more infrequently as the antidote. So, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze unless you learn to get the recovery variables just right and know when to back off. Which in my experience (no one truly does or can) If not, I could see most people have shoulder, low back, or knee pain trying to implement this principle indefinitely.
Even getting to the point of needing to constantly implement pre-hab work and think it’s normal to have slight pain. Which it is not if you’re actually giving your body sufficient rest and putting recovery over forced progress.
It’s like the old story or the hare and tortoise.
Most people aren’t lucky enough to be able to push high intensity and high frequency without paying the consequences.
+ don’t use gymnasts as an example because they’re built so different than the average person. Although, I agree that training like one to an extent is useful. You must understand that being short in stature and having the right leverages + strength to body weight ratio is what allows gymnast to excel at many other sports. They’re world class examples of what that type of training can achieve they’re the exception not the rule.
So, yes skill training is a viable way to get better at demonstrating strength in a period of time but long term will almost certainly lead to joint problems which we see in most older calisthenics athletes and gymnasts around the world. Seems wiser to train with less frequency if longevity is in mind because joint health and the ability to move long term is better than a temporary demonstration of strength that leads to injury.
So, yes skill training for a period of time using just body weight is fine.
It’s very similar to Bulgarian training which some people get away with but most people do not. One movement I see this respond better for most people is squat.
Doing high frequency shoulder work can work for awhile. I’ve done it w handstands but after awhile I found it foolish to train more often to keep skills because it was for no true purpose. So, if you want to push your body be my guest but be aware of long term potential damage.
Because truth is it’s not the smartest way to train. Always respect the relationship between frequency, intensity, and volume of longevity is the goal.
You had me at nuance! Great video
Another video about training volume would be great! It seems to me that for strength there is an appropriate volume for your level of training advancement culminating in two a days at the elite level. But for a beginner I don't think you would recommend twice daily strength training? A skill training like dance practice is a lot less taxing so I can see much greater volumes being used. Thanks for the video!
Excellent idea Bob! I’d love to dive into this- who else would want to see it?
@@BrenTeachesMovement yes please
@@BrenTeachesMovement yes buddy!
@@BrenTeachesMovement I'd love to see it! Or has it been made already? 😀
How about you go to a youtuber, who actually knows what they're talking about, like Mike Israetl or Alex Bromley.
Is there some book on the practice and philosophy behind the MOVIMENT? I want to know better this incredible system of moviment.
Hugs from Brazil.
This was an excellent video and I think precisely what I needed. Keep bringing us this informative gold
Thanks for a really helpful and inspiring video!
Gibran Khalil Gibran!!!!!! Good to see you killing it Bren. The internship was fun times :)
This is exactly what i needed to hear;-) Thank you
Thanks brother!!!
Look into HIT - high intensity training. Its the gold standard of exercise methods. Tons of gains with short workouts (under 20 mins 2x per week) will get you very strong.
Great bro! Thanks for sharing your toughts on your personal journey and research!
One thing I don´t get about Ido is how he says he´s not focusing on being the best anymore while on the other hand he has his students whose limits he keeps pushing till it´s uncomfortable and humiliating, as I once heard. But I guess that´s just what he has to keep doing as it´s his business and to make profit, you gotta have some results, a business has to be competitive. I personally have acquired the philosophy to stop trying to be the best, learn new stuff and have fun moving. I can do things normal mortals dream of. Also, with trying hard to be better usually come new injuries.
It's the first of your video I'm watching but this guy convinced me literally 🔥
I barely do these type of comment let's get started
Thanks Ankit! glad you liked it- get to training! :)
Interesting. So can it be safe to lift heavy and do deadlifts/squats every day, even when sore? Is that not increasing the risk of injury? Thanks, another great vid:)
I think the risk of injury with movements like deadlifts/squats has more to do with form than anything else. If you cannot maintain proper form - due to pain, soreness, muscular or nervous fatigue - you're putting yourself at risk for injury. So once you realise your form is failing, either drop the weight or rest
yes, absolutely. I did a nice program that included squats and deadlifts everyday back late last year and worked quite well- paved the way for my recent deadlift PR I'm sure. I treat soreness as somewhat irrelevant- what you should really pay attention to is function and pain (unrelated to soreness pain). If you're sore and getting stronger, excellent- and this is almost always the case. Sore and getting weaker/worse in your sport (like in the John Broz story) is something I avoid with my students, but honestly I've never pushed anyone hard enough to see it happen (for longer than can be explained by random chance).
Hey Skair, I actually disagree with you here in theory, though I might actually agree on this in practice but for other reasons. Here's the thing, people throw this argument around all the time, but AFAIK there is not a single shred of evidence to support this idea, in vivo, at sub 'jumping off a building' type forces. The way I think about form is more along the lines of standards, consistency, and adaptation- but I'd definitely need a whole video to address that. Let me know If that's something you guys want to see, It's been on my to-do list for a while :).
Also @photonmusik, yes, more training will increase injury risk- that's part of the game (I don't believe there's any evidence to suggest that training while sore increases your injury risk however). But as the saying goes, getting off the couch increases your risk of Rhabdomyolysis by 400%. Should you therefore stay bedridden fearing injury? Then the paradox comes, the longer you stay on the couch, the more getting off the couch will increase your injury risk. It depends how far you want to go really, If you want to be elite in anything, you don't have much of a choice.
@@BrenTeachesMovement That's extremely interesting to know, thanks!
GREAT! Thank you man that was useful data.
Glad to help- You're welcome!
Make sense if you're professional athlete e.q. you have that time for the training and you don't have to do any other job. People who works manually works at least eight hours a day as well. It's so natural. I remember once during the high school holiday I had a job as digger. First week or maybe two I was tired, my body hurt, my leg hurt from the work with shovel (yes, there is a technique for work with shovel when you push against the shovel with your leg). After some time I just get used to it. Combining high volume training with every day 9-5 job is another level and not just because of the time but also and mostly the mental pressure. Most of the professional athletes just train and compete and they have all various coaches for all aspects of human being.
Can you do a video on strength plateaus? I’ve been stuck at a 45 second handstand for months. Increasing the frequency and volume doesn’t seem to help. This has been the case for my weighted pull-up as well, I can’t seem to get past 90 pounds for 5 reps.
Hi Bren, I enjoy and appreciate your videos, for me you represent a more independent perspective on movement.
I would love to watch a video on how to deal with Paradoxical deconditioning syndrome and how to manage recovery- as in what is important and how to improve it and regulate training through time.
Thank you!
Definitely do a video on overtraining!!!!!
Great content, mind opening and smartly organized
would you still advise so. to train multiple hours per day if he had multiple injuries in shoulders, wrists and knees/ankles?
Epic content! Looking fw to future vids!
Hi, yes absolutely, however the training would need to change dramatically based on the situation. For instance, are you one week out from defending your title , and the honor of your country at the olympics? How many injuries are there and how responsive are they to the exercises you've tried? Basically yes, but you're going to want to switch the vast majority of your training to rehab depending on the severity of the injuries, response of the injuries to training and rehab, proximity to competition/deadline of some sort, and how easily/ without risk you're able to train around your injuries.
If this is your situation, I would say be very careful, address the injuries first, then deal with the training. Check out my video on pain science (th-cam.com/video/lTeYwfI1O68/w-d-xo.html) if you haven't already, and I'll be working on a part 2 that will be more practical/how to based in addition to the book.
I just subscribed, so I guess I want to hear more. Movement is incredibly important for rock climbing, so I can see how this is applicable to almost everything we do with our daily lives. I'm looking forward to some more great content!
Thanks Christian! Yes absolutely :)
@2:02 who's the other coach you call brilliant? 🤔
All-round excellent video Bren! You delivered a lot of solid info in 8 minutes, very impressive!
Very helpful! Thank you very much!
Hello Bren! Any thoughts about Scott Sonnon and Tacfit? I think he is quite an amazing coach. Btw love your videos, a lot of good info.
0:08 "he (Ido Portal) was like anything I've ever seen, this guy was absolutely brilliant"
1:20 "when I first saw his videos (still Ido Portal) I was honestly not impressed with the stuff he was doing"
I'm already confused
I am and was more impressed with his combination of physical prowess and cognitive skill than just the physical skills alone. Great athletes are often a dime a dozen, but great athletes who are brilliant like Ido is are a rare breed
This is beautiful content
Thanks very much for posting this video. I’m glad that you explained this aspect of Ido’s fitness philosophy. This is poler opposite from many workout philosophies I’m familiar with and I have puzzled over this difference for years.
Love this! Sounds like what David Goggins talks about.
Hey Bren,thank you so much for the Insight you create in your Videos.It helped me a lot and I do work twice as hard as before,because it is possible by splitting.You motivated me so much man,Have a great Time,see you here.Chris
Thank you for this video.
It inspires me to
Study and push my training consistently.
I so myself at 6.52. How do You get my picture?
Bren, what happened with that guy from San Francisco, is he still part of Ido Portal movement or they have split?
I d like to learn more about the paradoxical deconditiong syndrome.
Coming from bodybuilding, I would have thought this approach is borderline cult material. Then I looked the guy up and he us an exellent lifter himself and seems very reasonable overall. I have started to shift my training the last month or so and have to say it works. Work capacity goes up and I'm really a middle aged woman with injuries. I will look up such programming more.
Voce treinou jiu jitsu com o Caio Terra? Ta pegando os melhores mesmo hein! Rsrs
Certified Personal trainer and health coach here. Loved your video brother, super informative
Informative video! May I ask you what camera you filmed this with? The quality is great!
Great video
Man, I.was in great shape and training 4 times a week martial arts. Then I saw Ido basic program and started to train. I got so injured that I never recovered. My spine is now so bad that I lay on bed most of the day, and I was shreded like bruce lee 7 years ago. Any help for spine recovery besides Stuart McGill program?
If you're injured, please consult a physical therapist or Gonstead style chiropractor. Get well soon!
@@tofumonster8913, 8 years in regular clinical and chiropractors hands. And nothing. One russian method gives a little chanse...
@@andneomatmj23 Gonstead style chiropractor requires a full spine X-ray (standing up). It's best to get a diagnosis using Xray first (more serious case such as damage to the disc may need MRI).
Dr. Sarno. You'll think I'm nuts. Works for me anyway. Spent weeks every month on the floor for years due to my back.
How do you learn or work with ido portal if you are far away ?
Just started watching this video, hoping to learn the moment needed for playing touch butt
remind me alot of muay thai camp in thailand. they train 6 days a week for the whole day. sur alot of work on technique but it's still really hard and it takes around 2 week for a westerner to pick up the flow. but we should still not forget that a lot of athlete are using Peds to help them recover in off seasons.
Ha! I love how you said training for the whole day, rather than a certain # of hours. This is a fair point as well, and actually a strong critique of the Bulgarian method overall, is that alot of abajiev's guys were supposedly using steroids as part of the program, and Broz's best athlete got 'popped' for it as well.
Hey. Don't you think the fact that these atheletes are on ped help them go for so much volume
I want to see the overtraining video please
Hi , i'll be direct : is there a Big tribe i Don't know who Can Live without a job and never have children to Care to allows her to train between three and eight hours a day?
Or is this video just made for young people living in some really cool places where struggling for life is not a question?:)
I got a kung-fu blackbelt and an official certification for teaching it but now i'm 45 , it seems impossible to me to train 5 hours a day as i used to do it.
I really feel a deep enjoyment for ido portal's méthod but i feel like exluded from it because only pro or trying to be can train the ways you're talking.
Hope you'll manage to get my humour and give me an out of pattern answer :)
Hi! Thank you for sharing! I am a fan if Ido Portal. Helpful information for me. Is there any online begginer or foundations course? That also would include how to train smart.
Check out my intro to movement series!!
If the intro to movement series finds you looking for more, check out Bren's paid TH-cam channel memberships! Lots of great videos in the library!
Don't increase your volume too fast, or you'll end up on chubbyemu.
I don't understand how 3000 snatches and cleans are possible. If you did 10 EMOM that would take you 5 hours with each additional minute of rest taking an extra 5 hours. How do you think he programmed that amount of volume in daily?
Wonderful and thank you
Hey Bren,
Can you please tell me what is the goal in the ido portal movement? I'm very impressed and I'm impressed by your explanation as well 👌
Thank you dulquar! Ido's said that the goal is 'to be'. kind of like being fully present in a flow state, but it's also the sort of thing where there isn't really a goal or endpoint, the thing is simply to keep working to improve yourself no matter where you're at
He took capoeira and removed the culture and made it about just the moves and flowing like one would do in a roda.
Used to train like Ido talked about for 5 years or so. Doesn't work for me so much now. Construction worker, and 3 kids and wife. Just no time for dedicating hours to myself 😂
Overtraining paradigm shift content please
high volume develops technique and the nervous system faster. It doesn't do shit for bigger muscles, which is why most people train the way they do at gyms. They don't give a damn about having good efficient technique.
So, what I get when you’re saying that «overtraining syndrome» is correlated with self-reported sleep quality, nutrition, etc, is that the more accurate term may be «under-recovering». So, that begs the question: What are good ways to facilitate recovery in general, and especially in context of physical training (personally I’m especially interested in weightlifting and martial arts)
100% agree that over training is a sign of stress in other areas of life. So easy to blame it on snatches when work has gotten quite workish. As pigmie would say you gotta focus.
At some point you're going backwards. It's ridiculous to think that you can just train more and get more adaptations.
There's a specific amount of volume you get the best growth with. And then there is more or less wise ways of spreading that volume over a week.
this is gold
Thanks bro! I think this one answered your other question too :).
@@BrenTeachesMovement IT DID! LMAOOOO
AMAZING video! (as always, these new vids are so informative!)
You seem to have a huge amount of knowledge!
I would have one question: How is the risk of injuries related to this high volume? Is it just a matter of enough prehab?
(If this is too difficult to answer here, could you maybe make a vid on that? Would be epic.
Final little question: do you offer online coaching?
Thank you Sir Broccoli! I will attempt to go into that in the future video dive into training volume that you guys are asking for. You can also see my reply above to Bryan about the existence of overtraining.
And yes I do offer OC. send me an email if you're interested, I've gotten a few inquiries over the last few days.
How did you manage to Progress with Upper Body Skills like the Planche while training your lower body with a really heavy squat?
Yes, I’m letting you know in the comments that I would like to know more.
Excellent. About what specifically?
@@BrenTeachesMovement sounds like this is referring to the segment on paradoxical de-conditioning at 7:35
How can this will be incorporated on average person with 9 hours in office job and family ?
Great question. Lots of people do it in all sorts of different ways- you have to figure out something that works for your particular situation. You can look at the olympics and see all sorts of incredible stories of how people find time to train at that high of a level after having kids, while working full time, while in medical school... all sorts of crazy stuff.
Some of the things people do:
Wake up early and train before work/ everyone else wakes up.
Train with your family.
Find or create breaks between office work to go train.
Or just generally, prioritize movement & health. One of my previous videos addresses this here (th-cam.com/video/slFYNf0fyLY/w-d-xo.html)
Subscribed
So...who is the other brilliant coach?
Hey Bob! It's John Danaher, hands down.
Very well put 👏👏👏
Thank you Fluid Balance!
I've returned to this video after a while and I'm curious for some reviews or meta-analyses to go over. Any particular studies you think go over this well?
What do you think about a movement practise like tricking. If you don't know tricking is a very taxing sport that makes you flip and twist in the air whilst combining martial arts kicks. It's very off axis most of the time. Do you think it can be practiced with a lot of volume like 5-6 hours a day everyday almost?
The top strength athletes and bodybuilders don't do the same heavy lifts every day.
When athletes train every day, they don't do it to build muscle or strength, but to improve their technique.
You can get away with super high volume to some degree, but eventually the quality of your workouts suffers a lot and you're really slowing down your progress. And of course if you completely overdo it, you go backwards, not forwards.
The smart thing to do is to train your sports specific skills daily and improve your strength and muscle mass like a strength athlete would: with distinct recovery phases.
How much time is each of those sessions throughout the day? And what is the intensity of each workout?
So after watching this I have a serious question, hope you can help. After 10yrs of bb and some bw training (handstands, human flags etc.) Started exploring movment. So, my wrists get sore very fast due to being lots inverted. Should or should I not continue to train trough the pain? (I have also cronic tendonities both golfers and tennis elbow due to fisical work I did when I was younger but it's not that bad when I train)