Absolutely warms my heart to be able to watch speculators’ value tank. This is a game for families, and needs to be financially accessible to a broad audience.
Exactly. I don't mind legendaries and foil legendaries fetching a decent price, but $60 per with a 4 per deck limit was too rich for my blood. Hence why I held off on buying Rapunzel.
Cards that people can actually afford has been great for local gaming. Instead of forced into proven combos and deck lists players have been experimenting with different card combinations. While it was nice to go hey I pulled a card that's worth a bit I'm a lot happier to see folks bring the whole family to game day because they aren't priced out of playing.
I live in a pretty remote area and it was basically impossible to find anything that wasn't marked up 300%. I now have starters and got lots of packs for Christmas presents and am excited to play. Screw the scalpers, glad to get product and will get singles soon to build up decks.
First chapter $80.00 a box in new jersey. My dealer ordered three boxes, distributer sent him three cases, distrubuter says he is flooded with reprint boxes.
I love the analysis in this video, great job! I have subscribed! From a market perspective, has Lorcana surpassed the threshold? I agree that the game has not. I can understand the fears, and will respond to them according to the following sources. 1) This discussion is from a market perspective, so we are looking at these cards as an asset. Some of the fear is coming from “scalpers” who want to “time the market”. The core goal of the card game is NOT to ensure “timely” returns on investment to those who purchase the product. If you are concerned that the game will not do this for you, then your fears have been realized. For someone who wants to time the market, then the answer is: yes, the cards have been overprinted. 2) It is also not the core goal of this game to make returns on investment for investors with long term goals. However, the company’s approach has filled me with confidence that they have the desire to create a TCG with potential for long term sustainability, and the knowledge to make it happen. I have some fears that they may continue to reprint old sets far into the future (like YuGiOh). However, this reprint strategy seems like one of short term un sustainability due to desperation. I am impressed by Ravensburger, and believe that their printers will make them more money by printing new product rather than eternally reprinting the old. So long as the company is not incentivized to reprint “First Chapter” product in a couple of decades, then I see sealed Lorcana as a RELATIVELY safe long term investment. For an investor in this category, the answer is: No, the print size is not concerning right now. 3) Fear may also come from investors feeling caught between the size of the “drop” in prices right now and the FOMO of missing out on “the next” MTG: Alpha or Pokémon Base Set. While understandable, this mindset is not market oriented. If you are caught in this, then my suggestion is that you spend some time with the cards themselves without thinking about the prices. Try to figure out if this is a product that you are in love with or not. If you love the product for itself, then let go of the FOMO and revisit the market perspective. If you don’t love the game (which is fine!), then you probably don’t have enough personal interest in the game to invest the time and attention that is required to SAFELY invest in this particular product. You can’t invest in everything. Find a product that you love, then enjoy spending your time and attention on understanding that products market perspective! This is not investment advice. My relevant experience is that I have been playing card games for over 20 years and have over $10,000 in sales of various TCGs on eBay.
People saying overprinting kills the game are clueless, that's not how it works it's simple supply and demand, the game will stabilise on its own. At no point should any game's boosters not be available at RRP.
The value of cards going up warps the game to be for collectors over players. Its why i quit magic the gathering. Glad to see the game be for the players, for now.
My local card shop realized the reality of pricing and stopped ripping us off. They started selling booster boxes at $300 then dropped to $250. No one bough as I’m from a small town. Now they are retailing at $130. I picked up a box. 😊
You should make a lorcana playmat like you've done for flesh and blood. Playmats are still impossible to find the 3 chapter one playmates are going for like $100 each.
I was at my local card store and picked up 2 of the chapter 2 starter decks for $8 each. Looking forward to playing this game. I'm worried it won't stick around long term though like what happened with other tcgs
thoughts on this being a collectable like a lot of other TCGS? I feel like having collectors definitely helps with making a TCG hobby. But if they plan to print say chapter one after 5-10 years... I feel like the price of this TCG will not be the best which collectors will opt out on.
I totally agree that having collectors is a huge part of any TCG, and my guess is that they'll probably plan to tackle this very similar to pokémon with regards to reprints.
I was so excited when I first heard of Lorcana, I was finally gonna be able to convince my youngest sibling to try out tcgs. To this date, I have not seen a single physical product anywhere near me. I was hyped to play a child friendly game with em, as their not into Pokemon (the only other kid friendly game that I could think of) and not being able to find any product was disheartening. Ended up bonding over Minecraft, as I used to play a lot when I was younger. Yeah,,, idk where I was going with this have a good one
I agree with you for the most part. But... I bought two boxes of each of the two sets. I like opening boxes. It's fun. What isn't fun is the feeling of burning money. A fair amount of boosters should have cards in them whose combined worth is around the price you paid for the booster. I know that I lose money on opening boosters but there should be a healthy relation or else it's like in Pokemon where every new edition has only a handful of cards that are even worth the booster price (and with a very minuscule possibility of drawing them). It destroys the fun in opening packs. If the downward trend continues Ravensburger would need to cheapen the packs in my opinion. By the way: opening boxes in Lorcana is nice. You need to open two boxes of an edition to have a playset of all the commons - so up to that moment you did not get any 'useless' card. I like that very much.
It's a very watered down version of MtG/Hearthstone. You'll be disappointed coming from FaB but the cardpool is shallow and there's always room for improvement
You've been listening to the wrong people. This game is excellent. Far better than M:tG (a game I was playing for 25 years and at rather high competitive levels at times in my life and that I still love). It is by no means 'watered down' but improved. I play for a few month now regularly (dozens and dozens of games) and imagine this: only two (2) games were decided by a lack of resources (aka screw). Two. And if you don't think that that is improvement... How about that: A constructed M:tG deck has 60 cards. 24 of them are lands (just to make it a little easier) leaving 36 "actual cards". Playing mostly 4ofs nets us 9 different cards per deck - I know that this is simplified. In Lorcana the cards double as resources. You have 60 card decks and can play four of each card, that leaves us with 15 different cards and with a much bigger variety of cards you see each game. At this moment considering the cardpool the game is obviously less skill intensive than M:tG but it will grow in complexity. I haven't played limited yet but I fear the draft format is not as engaging as M:tGs. But I'll definitely try it out.
If you're looking for a casual game aimed for 1st time tcg players and kids, then yes. If you want back and forth player interaction and deep deck construction, then this is not it.
@delpeck2067 I disagree. Are Lorcanas rules easier than MtGs? Yes. Does that mean that it's a game for kids or a casual game? Nope. Chess has only a handful of rules, 'Go' even less... Both of them have no means to interact with your opponent during their turns. Casual kid games? Surely not. You don't need complicated rules to create a game full of meaningful and consequential decisions. Adressing your second point: You do realize that Lorcana is brand new!? Lorcana has about 400 different cards divided evenly in six colors (around 70 per color). You can mix two colors in deckbuilding. That limits deck building for sure. But that is not the games fault. It's just a new game... You could have made the same point about MtG after Alpha came out.
Accessibility is good for player base but without the collectability, this game could crash because people will not open the product and singles cost will rise. Without the Disney brand, this TCG would already be dead in the water. Force of Will is a good example of what overprinting even just 1 set can do to a tcg. I just checked today and saw my collection of around 3000 cards fall 80% in value. I will NEVER purchase sealed Lorcana product again. And also, it's not just "scalpers" that are capping on a desirable product. Game stores alike were jacking prices up immensely. I took screenshots of cardshoplive when they had 1 box of the first chapter for over $400 each. Respect to Disney for having an MSRP but apparently NO ONE actually implemented it.
My local community crashed, people got really upset when their cards tanked in value. We've had box sitting for two weeks, league attendance has dropped from over 30 to 10 today. I just bought in this week, pretty bummed.
You guys act like they did a favour for players. It's a CCG. It's designed to make cards rarer than others for speculation. They didn't reprint for players, they reprinted because the more people who buy the set and get into the game the more money they'll make later off speculators. It's just another NFT. Speculators needs to sell to somebody. If kids and dumb people aren't playing the game then speculators can't sell. So if the entire first run of the game is sold to speculators the game is DOA. This is just convincing dumb people that they now have a chance to also make money too. Because if everyone has fomo then everyone will buy more. The limited print run was intentional to create hype and fomo in dumb people. Sorry but it's the truth. They don't care about players. If they cared about players the rare mechanic wouldn't be there. Disney has to pretend it's not creating legalized gambling for children.
The dynamics have always been the same, it's great that the game is available now but I am pretty sure once chapter 3 is out chapter 1 won't be printed anymore and once is not readily available in stores then scalpers will benefit from it. It's the eternal dilemma between collectibility vs playability... Casual/regular players hate scalpers; scalpers buy, hold, and resell, and so on. Personally, I do both and it always allows me to sustain my own collection because why wouldn't you do that if you know in the long run your money at the very least will always stay at MSRP. If you buy at MSRP and hold is a form of investment and you can sit on it until it goes up... Haters gonna hate I guess.
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Absolutely warms my heart to be able to watch speculators’ value tank. This is a game for families, and needs to be financially accessible to a broad audience.
Watching scalpers scramble to sell their stock below RRP makes me very happy.
I love that it is getting affordable. The only cards that should cost alot are the special art enchanted cards
Exactly. I don't mind legendaries and foil legendaries fetching a decent price, but $60 per with a 4 per deck limit was too rich for my blood. Hence why I held off on buying Rapunzel.
Yeah I love that they said they would reprint it into the ground. It’s the healthiest thing for the game
Yes
Cards that people can actually afford has been great for local gaming. Instead of forced into proven combos and deck lists players have been experimenting with different card combinations. While it was nice to go hey I pulled a card that's worth a bit I'm a lot happier to see folks bring the whole family to game day because they aren't priced out of playing.
Exactly. I brought my kids to play at the very first pre release and I hope to keep it going!
I live in a pretty remote area and it was basically impossible to find anything that wasn't marked up 300%. I now have starters and got lots of packs for Christmas presents and am excited to play. Screw the scalpers, glad to get product and will get singles soon to build up decks.
I LOVE that for you! Merry Christmas!
@@DMArmada Merry Christmas to you and your family too! Nerdy presents for all!
Absolutely! It's a great thing they are supporting PLAYERS or want to be players. I'm seeing boxes of Chapter One for $117 now.
Gasp! Making products available and affordable raises sales?! STOP THE PRESSES!!!
SHOCKING
First chapter $80.00 a box in new jersey. My dealer ordered three boxes, distributer sent him three cases, distrubuter says he is flooded with reprint boxes.
The market spikes were caused by Fomoflation, its a basic part of Fomoconomics. Glad to see the prices coming back down.
Time to go study Fomoconomics
Great to see prices dropping. After how poorly the first two sets were managed print run wise, not sure if we will support the game or not.
I love the analysis in this video, great job! I have subscribed!
From a market perspective, has Lorcana surpassed the threshold?
I agree that the game has not.
I can understand the fears, and will respond to them according to the following sources.
1) This discussion is from a market perspective, so we are looking at these cards as an asset. Some of the fear is coming from “scalpers” who want to “time the market”. The core goal of the card game is NOT to ensure “timely” returns on investment to those who purchase the product. If you are concerned that the game will not do this for you, then your fears have been realized.
For someone who wants to time the market, then the answer is: yes, the cards have been overprinted.
2) It is also not the core goal of this game to make returns on investment for investors with long term goals. However, the company’s approach has filled me with confidence that they have the desire to create a TCG with potential for long term sustainability, and the knowledge to make it happen.
I have some fears that they may continue to reprint old sets far into the future (like YuGiOh). However, this reprint strategy seems like one of short term un sustainability due to desperation. I am impressed by Ravensburger, and believe that their printers will make them more money by printing new product rather than eternally reprinting the old.
So long as the company is not incentivized to reprint “First Chapter” product in a couple of decades, then I see sealed Lorcana as a RELATIVELY safe long term investment.
For an investor in this category, the answer is: No, the print size is not concerning right now.
3) Fear may also come from investors feeling caught between the size of the “drop” in prices right now and the FOMO of missing out on “the next” MTG: Alpha or Pokémon Base Set.
While understandable, this mindset is not market oriented. If you are caught in this, then my suggestion is that you spend some time with the cards themselves without thinking about the prices. Try to figure out if this is a product that you are in love with or not.
If you love the product for itself, then let go of the FOMO and revisit the market perspective.
If you don’t love the game (which is fine!), then you probably don’t have enough personal interest in the game to invest the time and attention that is required to SAFELY invest in this particular product.
You can’t invest in everything. Find a product that you love, then enjoy spending your time and attention on understanding that products market perspective!
This is not investment advice. My relevant experience is that I have been playing card games for over 20 years and have over $10,000 in sales of various TCGs on eBay.
People saying overprinting kills the game are clueless, that's not how it works it's simple supply and demand, the game will stabilise on its own. At no point should any game's boosters not be available at RRP.
I was worried the game wouldn't make it when the cost was so high. It's so much healthier now. For sale groups are full of people unloading product.
Exactly, and this is what happens when scalpers have the rug pulled out from under them.
The value of cards going up warps the game to be for collectors over players. Its why i quit magic the gathering.
Glad to see the game be for the players, for now.
having bought tons of this game at MSRP/ discounted, im so happy to see the price tanking so that people can discover and play this amazing game
In Poland we never got Chapter 1 and 2 XD Still waiting for Lorcana to officially release from Chapter 3.
My local card shop realized the reality of pricing and stopped ripping us off. They started selling booster boxes at $300 then dropped to $250. No one bough as I’m from a small town. Now they are retailing at $130. I picked up a box. 😊
They probably scooped the enchanted anyway from the first unsealed BBs.
@@palkys. How if it's in a sealed pack ??
You should make a lorcana playmat like you've done for flesh and blood. Playmats are still impossible to find the 3 chapter one playmates are going for like $100 each.
Yeah, I had thought about that but no Disney art kinda holds me back... What kind of art should I pursue?
I was at my local card store and picked up 2 of the chapter 2 starter decks for $8 each. Looking forward to playing this game. I'm worried it won't stick around long term though like what happened with other tcgs
I want to play but not at the cost of a leg. So im glad its tanking and disney needs to shrink wrap their boxes.
thoughts on this being a collectable like a lot of other TCGS? I feel like having collectors definitely helps with making a TCG hobby. But if they plan to print say chapter one after 5-10 years... I feel like the price of this TCG will not be the best which collectors will opt out on.
I totally agree that having collectors is a huge part of any TCG, and my guess is that they'll probably plan to tackle this very similar to pokémon with regards to reprints.
The price start to go up again, i think in April box will value in the range of 180 doller
Thank god. FInally found the starter sets and its super fun.
Good take, have been preaching a lot of this for a long time now
I got C1 bb from Disney store @ MSRP and Fb bb at about $150 from elsewhere
Booster box of chapter had drop down to $149 😎 and that’s great news
I was so excited when I first heard of Lorcana, I was finally gonna be able to convince my youngest sibling to try out tcgs. To this date, I have not seen a single physical product anywhere near me. I was hyped to play a child friendly game with em, as their not into Pokemon (the only other kid friendly game that I could think of) and not being able to find any product was disheartening. Ended up bonding over Minecraft, as I used to play a lot when I was younger. Yeah,,, idk where I was going with this have a good one
I agree with you for the most part. But...
I bought two boxes of each of the two sets. I like opening boxes. It's fun. What isn't fun is the feeling of burning money. A fair amount of boosters should have cards in them whose combined worth is around the price you paid for the booster. I know that I lose money on opening boosters but there should be a healthy relation or else it's like in Pokemon where every new edition has only a handful of cards that are even worth the booster price (and with a very minuscule possibility of drawing them). It destroys the fun in opening packs.
If the downward trend continues Ravensburger would need to cheapen the packs in my opinion.
By the way: opening boxes in Lorcana is nice. You need to open two boxes of an edition to have a playset of all the commons - so up to that moment you did not get any 'useless' card. I like that very much.
worth playing? have you? I have not heard good things on gameplay.
I've played over 50 games, and yes. The game is excellent at what it does!
It's a very watered down version of MtG/Hearthstone. You'll be disappointed coming from FaB but the cardpool is shallow and there's always room for improvement
You've been listening to the wrong people. This game is excellent. Far better than M:tG (a game I was playing for 25 years and at rather high competitive levels at times in my life and that I still love). It is by no means 'watered down' but improved.
I play for a few month now regularly (dozens and dozens of games) and imagine this: only two (2) games were decided by a lack of resources (aka screw). Two. And if you don't think that that is improvement...
How about that: A constructed M:tG deck has 60 cards. 24 of them are lands (just to make it a little easier) leaving 36 "actual cards". Playing mostly 4ofs nets us 9 different cards per deck - I know that this is simplified. In Lorcana the cards double as resources. You have 60 card decks and can play four of each card, that leaves us with 15 different cards and with a much bigger variety of cards you see each game.
At this moment considering the cardpool the game is obviously less skill intensive than M:tG but it will grow in complexity.
I haven't played limited yet but I fear the draft format is not as engaging as M:tGs. But I'll definitely try it out.
If you're looking for a casual game aimed for 1st time tcg players and kids, then yes. If you want back and forth player interaction and deep deck construction, then this is not it.
@delpeck2067
I disagree.
Are Lorcanas rules easier than MtGs? Yes. Does that mean that it's a game for kids or a casual game? Nope. Chess has only a handful of rules, 'Go' even less... Both of them have no means to interact with your opponent during their turns. Casual kid games? Surely not. You don't need complicated rules to create a game full of meaningful and consequential decisions.
Adressing your second point: You do realize that Lorcana is brand new!? Lorcana has about 400 different cards divided evenly in six colors (around 70 per color). You can mix two colors in deckbuilding. That limits deck building for sure. But that is not the games fault. It's just a new game... You could have made the same point about MtG after Alpha came out.
Accessibility is good for player base but without the collectability, this game could crash because people will not open the product and singles cost will rise. Without the Disney brand, this TCG would already be dead in the water. Force of Will is a good example of what overprinting even just 1 set can do to a tcg. I just checked today and saw my collection of around 3000 cards fall 80% in value. I will NEVER purchase sealed Lorcana product again. And also, it's not just "scalpers" that are capping on a desirable product. Game stores alike were jacking prices up immensely. I took screenshots of cardshoplive when they had 1 box of the first chapter for over $400 each. Respect to Disney for having an MSRP but apparently NO ONE actually implemented it.
My local community crashed, people got really upset when their cards tanked in value. We've had box sitting for two weeks, league attendance has dropped from over 30 to 10 today. I just bought in this week, pretty bummed.
Now that prices have finally normalized, I think I will try it out.
Why would he print the cards to price oblivion? That makes no sense.
Are these Lorcana players in the room right now?
I know I am
Here I am, rock you like a hurricane...
Good for players bad for scalpers. 😂😂😂😂
THIS IS THE NEW POKEMON!!! HELL YEAH BE HAPPY U SCALPER!
Did I hear a Rudy quote drop?
Lorcana may oversupply at around 50-60 dollars a box.
I think the sweet spot is probably 80 dollars a box
Cringed at the tendies
Good. More people should cringe at that mindset.
You guys act like they did a favour for players. It's a CCG. It's designed to make cards rarer than others for speculation. They didn't reprint for players, they reprinted because the more people who buy the set and get into the game the more money they'll make later off speculators. It's just another NFT. Speculators needs to sell to somebody. If kids and dumb people aren't playing the game then speculators can't sell. So if the entire first run of the game is sold to speculators the game is DOA. This is just convincing dumb people that they now have a chance to also make money too. Because if everyone has fomo then everyone will buy more. The limited print run was intentional to create hype and fomo in dumb people. Sorry but it's the truth. They don't care about players. If they cared about players the rare mechanic wouldn't be there. Disney has to pretend it's not creating legalized gambling for children.
The dynamics have always been the same, it's great that the game is available now but I am pretty sure once chapter 3 is out chapter 1 won't be printed anymore and once is not readily available in stores then scalpers will benefit from it. It's the eternal dilemma between collectibility vs playability... Casual/regular players hate scalpers; scalpers buy, hold, and resell, and so on. Personally, I do both and it always allows me to sustain my own collection because why wouldn't you do that if you know in the long run your money at the very least will always stay at MSRP. If you buy at MSRP and hold is a form of investment and you can sit on it until it goes up... Haters gonna hate I guess.